63 thoughts on “Threshers Recap – 7/11/2019”

1. Jo Jo Romero is on a nice roll, and I wonder if he continues with a strong July will he get another shot at AAA in August, just to see if he can handle the league.

   1. Thomas Wood:
      You are correct……3 of his last 4 outings have been plus work.
      He keeps this going for the next 2/3 weeks….he may get promoted back to AAA as you say….but just for another organization.

      1. Romero could be available in trade talks. However, I hope Klentak does his best to hold on to the organizations top/higher ceiling LH arms (Romero, Jones, Dohy, Miller [beginning this winter]).
         Romero looked good last night.

         JoJo Romero (finally) 6IP 4H 1BB 6K 071119 pic.twitter.com/TNG6CqixAT

         — PHI Prospect BurnerAcct (@PBurneracct) July 12, 2019

2. The Ramon Rosso train ride has hit a bumpy set of track. AAA is the first hiccup of his career. So what has gone wrong? From the stats it looks like wildness has crept in. In 2019, Reading 10 starts; 54 IP, 46 hits, 52 Ks,15 BBs and 3 hit batsmen. Opponents were hitting .235 against him with 8 HRs. In LHV with 6 starts; 28 IP, 27 hits, 26 Ks, 16 BBs and 6 HB. Opponents are hitting .243 with 5 HRs. So the main difference is a lot more BBs, HBs and a few more hits. The rest looks similar. I’ve always said, BBs will kill you. Jim’s been emphasizing it for a couple of years. When/If Rosso settles down, the pitcher we all know and love will rise with the cream. Let’s hope for the when and not the if.

3. Wow, Corbin Williams 14 stolen bases. Maybe our Billy Hamilton. If the Atlantic league experiment of stealing 1st is ever implemented in the Bigs, there goes that obstacle.

   1. Too bad Williams isn’t a lefty. Anything on the ground might be a base hit. But he’s hitting righty pitchers at a .306/.404/.367 with 15 Ks and 8 BBs. Against lefties, he’s .125/.263/.125 with 8 Ks and 2 BBs in 16 ABs. Once he sees more lefties, I think he’ll turn that stat around. You can’t teach someone to have Corbin’s speed but you can allow him to harness it. Like Willie Mays Hayes, every time Corbin hits the ball in the air, drop and give me 20 push ups.

4. It’s weird with the trade deadline in 19 days, I know some of these players we follow so closely will be gone. Haseley and Moniak are both playing very well and look to be on a collision course with the majors. But for whom? Howard and Jones and some days Romero are among our top pitching prospects. When they pitch well like Romero and Seabold did yesterday, you wonder if it moves them closer to out the door.
   It’s nice to see Ortiz hit so well again. Same issue though. I’d like to see Corbin Williams up at Lakewood at sine point to see if he can hit there. His speed will certainly play there.
   If I had to guess, anyone not named Bohm, Howard, Morales, and Garcia are in discussions.

   1. Bohm and Howard, yes they’re virtually untouchable. Now that Stott is in the fold and closer to the majors in proximity, Garcia is now a trade piece but only for a big arm. Morales may be the most asked for name that Klentak hears. Same for him. In fact, for the right pitcher, Morales and Garcia would go a long way to fetch that TOR.

      1. I d think JoJo is also another asked for pitcher.
         He is close to MLB ready…turns 23 in a few months, and if he can adapt to triple A for a period of time, which I am sure some GM out there will take a chance with him doing……I can see him as an attractive complement in a trade.

         1. Who could we get for Morales (or Romero), Garcia and Nick Williams?

            1. As much as we all like to think that our prospects’ trade value are sky high, they are not. Rankings matter and proximity matters. Morales and Garcia are not ranked, and they’re in Lakewood. As much as we want to believe that they can improve in the next few years, they can easily regress or stay stagnant. The Phillies will not getting an elite pitcher with those 2 guys. You should be able to flip Morales or Garcia for Tanner Roark.

               1. Guru … I think you are way over-valuing the price of rental pitchers. If Klentak were to give up either Morales or Garcia for Tanner Roarke, Middleton might first send him to a doctor to have his head examined. If tests revealed no traumatic brain injuries, Middleton would then order MacPhail to fire the GM.

                  Roarke is a nice (innings eater) arm that would help the Phillies, but nobody is forking over a top prospect for two and a half months of Tanner Roarke.

                  Look what Yu Darvish (another [way more talented… we’re taking TOR] rental) went for a couple of years ago. The Dodgers didn’t send the Rangers anyone of too much significance. Texas did get Willie Calhoun. He was a very back end of top 100 prospect with a very limited ceiling because of his lack of a position. They also got AJ Alexy. Even though I’ve loved Alexy since his prep days (I would have drafted him in the 11th round in 2016 instead of Josh Stephen. They both got about 600 thousand dollars as 11th round picks), he was not a LAD top 20 prospect).

                  If the Phillies are going to surrender Morales or Garcia, it’s going to be for someone (like Mike Minor if the Rangers decide to sell) with some period of team control.

               2. @Hinkie, You see, you think those guys are top prospects, the other teams don’t. There’s a difference between top prospects and prospects with potential. Top prospects will get you the top talent. Prospects with potential, they’ll get you lesser talent.

                  You already proved my point with the Darvish deal. It doesn’t matter if you dislike/like Willie Calhoun. In 2017, Calhoun was a top 75 prospect.

                  Morales or Garcia may be part of the deal for Minor, but there’s no way they are going to be the headliners. A top 100 prospect will be in there for sure.

                  You are treating Morales and Garcia as ranked prospects. They are not. In the future, they could be, but for now, they are not and that’s their value.

               3. But the point was Tanner Roarke is a rental, and he’s not in the same league as Yu Darvish (at least the Yu Darvish at the time of his trade). Time will tell, but I am almost certain no team is going to give the Reds one of their top prospects (Morales and Garcia are both top 7 prospects in the Phillies system) for two and a half months of Tanner Roarke.

               4. Guru … I respect your opinions, and enjoy reading your posts, but I think the disconnect here between you and me is the going price for rental pitchers. Roarke would be giving the Phillies maybe 12 starts. That’s all. What are 12 Tanner Roarke starts worth? I just don’t see any chance the Phillies would fork over 19 YO Francisco Morales or 18 YO Luis Garcia for 12 Tanner Roarke starts.

                  I used Yu Darvish as a best case scenario of a rental pitcher. Madison Bubgarner may have a similar worth as a rental to the Yu Darvish example. Tanner Roarke … not so much. IMO, Roarke would be worth something like David Parkinson and a lottery ticket (or two).

               5. @Hinkie, I understand that Roark is a rental, but he’s having a good season (pitching at Great American ballpark no less) and you would have him for the postseason. If he’s on the Phillies right now, he would be our second best starter.

                  Anyways, the Reds will move Roark, but they won’t give him away. He’s underrated in my opinion.

               6. Roark…25th round drafted pitcher with a 19bWAR career….do not see that often.

5. Damon Jones to LHV, NICE!!!

   Bohm and MM keep hitting…

   Haseley 3-6. .314.. Keeps hitting needs to play CF in Philly and Scotty move to 3b until Bohm is ready.

   1. These guys are all exciting. I also went back and took a look at Jones’ stats and, man oh man, I know he’s struggled some with control, but he has otherwise been fantastic this year – like out of this world. Furthermore, he was better in AA than he was in A+ ball – totally dominant with an ERA under 1. AAA should be a great test for him. If he can dominate there for several weeks I think he would get serious consideration for the rotation. This team needs a minor league pitcher to come out of nowhere to bolster the rotation. I actually think, in the long run, Cole Irvin will be a serviceable big league starter, but Jones has a chance to dominate immediately and that’s exciting.

   2. What is amazing to me is that Bohm is only four months younger than Haseley. Bohm’s a lot older than I thought. I’m glad they pushed him aggressively this year.

      1. He’s not THAT old. He’s still in his age 22 year and he’s more than ahead of schedule. He’ll be a major leaguer at age 23 – right on target.

6. This is probably likely painfully obvious but what does the acronym “TIL” mean? Thank you…

   1. Temporarily inactive list

      1. Thank you

7. I’m happy for Damon Jones success this year. I hope that we don’t fell into the “new toy” mentality and get carried away. What I’m seeing in the forum right now is eerily similar to last year about Enyel delos Santos.

   The MLB rotation is really performing that bad to give excitement about Damon Jones. I don’t usually get carried away by MiLB stat but rather focus on the actual abilities and look for comparables.

   Granted that Damon Jones is a LHP and his delivery has some sense of deception, I will look no further than Enyel delos Santos as a measuring stick.

   1. Age – Enyel is 1+ yr younger than Damon
   2. Velocity – Enyel throws harder by 1-2 mph. Let’s call it a was since Damon is a lefty
   3. Pitch Mix – Both Enyel and Damon are mostly 2-pitch pitcher, 3rd pitch is inconsistent.
   4. Secondary Off Speed pitch – Enyel’s secondary off speed is his CU which is graded better than Damon’s breaking ball.
   5. 3rd Pitch – Enyel’s CB is graded better than Damon’s CU.
   6. Command – Enyel’s career minors BB/9 is 2.9 vs 4.2 for Damon
   7. K/9 – Enyel is 8.3 vs 11.5 for Damon
   8. MLB experience – Enyel has 30 IP vs 0 IP for Damon

   As some of us mentioned here and Enyel and Cole Irvin found out that there’s a big gap in level pitching in high minors vs MLB. Enyel proved to have the better stuff and higher ceiling and Irvin has been very good in all levels in the minor league but both players are still over matched in MLB.

   I’m not hating on Damon Jones, but let’s just be real and tamper our expectations. If Damon Jones continued his 2019 success, he is due for protection next year. We will not see him in red pin stripes in 2019 but he will be invited in ST together with Spencer Howard.

   1. I think there’s a small chance we see Jones in Philly this year but mostly because we’re desperate.

      I agree with a lot of your post. Jones’ slider is a better swing and miss pitch than de los Santos’ changeup but it still doesn’t look like a dominant pitch to me. It should play up in relief when hitters won’t see it in 2-3 PAs per game, so I still think his long term home is in the bullpen.

      1. I still want Damon Jones to start and made the final determination when he makes it to the big league. Pitch efficiency, BB/9 and quality 3rd pitch are the areas I will look for improvement if Damon Jones is viable as a SP long term.

         His current profile of a high swing and miss guy with inconsistent command points towards a high leverage pen arm – which is not bad.

         I rather see Damon Jones as a high leverage lefty pen arm than struggle with command/pitch efficiency like Vinny.

   2. Valid points, Kuko. Our excitement over Jones is more of an indictment of the current state. Still, I hope that he can give something beyond the fool’s gold that many young pitchers flash at first glance but cannot sustain.

   3. I respectfully disagree with your comparison. Jones off speed stuff, cb/sl is much better than eynel. Eynel is a fb/ch rhp and that does not work in the ML. Jones is a lhp and that immediately gives him an advantage. Yes his command is a concern but Jones has a better than legitimate chance to be in red pinstripes this year if he handles 3A. IMO

      1. If Damon Jones will be with the Phillies in 2019, he will be part of the rotation and not bullpen. Jones lack of 3rd pitch and command issues may not sit well in the majors. And also his FB is not blowing helium – he is mostly in the low 90s hitting 94 tops and Jones SL is not even the best SL in the Phillies farm. I don’t want to argue about MiLB stats unless it is related to command and ability to miss bats.

         I’m not sure if you actually saw Damon Jones pitched but I don’t. Jones was still in CLW in couple of times that I watch the REA games. But I know someone from Sinking Spring who saw Damon Jones 3 times. He verified to me the velocity and he said that the swing and miss is mostly from deception rather than the pure quality of the stuff.

         1. Judge for yourself. These clips don’t show his velo, but it has been reported that Jones has been up to 96 this season.

            Damon Jones 070519 pic.twitter.com/fsAbPu8Ag7

            — PHI Prospect BurnerAcct (@PBurneracct) July 8, 2019

            Damon Jones 062319 pic.twitter.com/HI9RFHGPsK

            — PHI Prospect BurnerAcct (@PBurneracct) June 24, 2019

            1. I saw Jones up to 96 and carried it into the middle innings early on ….unless the gun was hot at the Spectrum at the time.

         2. Not arguing, just my opinion. I’ve seen him, I stand by my assessment of his cb/sl. It will work at the ML level if his fb command comes around.

         3. @Hinkie – it will be a big hit even if Damon Jones pitched from the pen. He can be Andrew Miller type.

            1. Depending on how he adapts to the MLB/AAA ball (I’m talking about the actual juiced baseball with lower stitching), Jones is probably headed for CBP at some point this season. The Phillies need pitching help. It would be crazy to ignore a surging LHP in your own organization.

               1. @Hinkie – I’m not sure how many additional wins Damon Jones can contribute if he plays with the Phillies. His stuff is not top notch – maybe workable due to delivery and deception.

                  Before JoJo Romero was sidelined due to injury almost a year ago, he was doing alright on his way to become the top LHP and among the top Phillies prospects. Never heard that the Phillies will be crazy if they ignore JoJo.

               2. KuKo … for the Phillies (who are in win now mode), it’s “all hands on deck”. The team is in dire need of pitching. The injured BP arms have/will be returning. That helps. Hopefully, a couple of Arrieta/Eflin/Pivetta/VV can straighten themselves out and give the team something. And Klentak will probably deal for another arm. If Jones or Medina or Romero or DLS or Brogdon or Dohy present any hope for help, you need to promote one or some.

                  I feel good that Harper/Hoskins/Realmuto get hot and carry the team for parts of the next couple of months. The pitching staff doesn’t have to be elite, but they need to be better than “we stink!” in order to make the playoffs.

               3. If the Phillies can create roster space (i.e. move stinking Jake Arrieta to 60-DL), I like to see Jeff Singer as the LHP from the pen.

                  When JTR comes back from paternity leave, Brantly will be DFAd and possibly Mo Llovera or Grant Dyer can be given a chance,

                  Mo Llovera is pitching as a SP, he has a power arm with a very good secondary (SL) so maybe he can be a spot starter.

                  Looks like the Phillies will live and die with Vinny so DLS should be given extended look in the rotation. Since Medina is already in the 40-man, I wouldn’t mind to see Medina do a spot start.

               4. KuKo…concerning Singer…last nite was not his nite.
                  https://www.milb.com/video/lipka-homers-for-cycle/c-31000003097

            2. @romus – Singer was not lights out in AAA but he’s been pretty good since the Phillies scoped him out of a auto repair shop. Singer is a pure pen arm and I like him better than Jose Alvarez – who I agree with HInkie that Klentak should considering trading (Alvarez) out.

               1. Matt Klentak has that unique knack for coming up with that fungible relief arm…..and when he finally gets a good one….the arm gets a fungus and breaks..

               2. Fire Mike Klentak then!!! Seriously speaking, RP arms are really trial and error and like a roller coaster ride. Those who sticks are the ones who are really good.

               3. Yes…..RP are volatile and questionably unreliable from one year to the next.
                  However…the guillotine still awaits.

   4. Your analysis is glossing over the two of the most important stats for a pitcher – K rate and ground ball rate. On those two stats, Damon has a massive advantage over Enyel. That is really all of the analysis you need to do. I like Enyel, but Jones’ stats are materially better.

      1. @v1 – K rate and GB% are not the only stats that needs to be considered especially if Damon Jones will be pitching as a SP in the major league.

         Also, I’m not technically comparing Enyel vs Damon Jones. I’m just using Enyel delos Santos as a measuring stick (using his overall stuff and certain minor league stat that matches the ability) since like what I said, the excitement with Damon Jones is similar to the excitement that this forum had with Enyel last year.

         Hinkie and I shared our prospect rankings 3 weeks ago have Damon Jones in the Top 10 so I’m also as high as most here with Damon Jones. I’m just suggesting to tamper the excitement with Damon Jones since Enyel and JoJo almost have the same helium last year.

         Damon Jones’ swing and miss and GB% are definitely an advantage but poor command and lack of a reliable 3rd pitch can negate those stats.

         1. I didn’t say “only”. I said “two of the most important”. IMO the third most important is BB rate and Jones is fine there. Not great but fine. But his k rates and gb rates are elite. EdlS does not have any peripheral stat that is elite.

            I think they have far different ceilings. IMO EdlS is a #5/#6 starter. If Jones can maintain his high K and gb rates against mlb hitters then he is a 3. His bb rate would have to improve to be better. But if you look at the peripherals of elite mlb pitchers, almost all have that combo of high K rate and high gb rate. It is a special combo.

8. Valid points, KuKo, except, IMO, the first one. I’m a huge believer in age vs level for hitters, but for pitchers it’s far less important. Saw this explanation in a Fangraphs chat a couple days ago:

   12:31
   D Back Fan: You mentioned in last chat that teams will hold back intl money for late bloomers. How likely is it to find a really good late blooming position player?

   12:33
   Kiley McDaniel: much less common than pitchers, unless it’s a Cuban that defects, but that isn’t a late-bloomer that was passed over. this is because pitcher development isn’t linear (the velo/stuff bump happens whenever) while hitter development is often linear (slowly improves, proves it at each level, raw tools are a smaller part of the equation), so the short-term surprises are less common. this is why hitter age matters so much for the draft and pitcher age doesn’t matter that much. physical development is one (small) reason, but constantly facing pitching that’s older is key for a hitter’s projection.

9. Stott is a beast.. Technically his 3rd hit in 3 at bats (his first inning double yesterday isn’t registered because the game was PPD) but the single in the first today, drives in a run. I don’t think he will be on the GCL East team very long

   1. Nice to hear. Yes, I think he will be in GCL for approximately as long as Bohm was last year. 30-35 PAs?

      1. 7/12/19 : Bryson Stott with RBI single in GCL action today pic.twitter.com/zbDjf6TsmA

         — PhilliesBaseballFan.com (@s_m_potter) July 12, 2019

      2. Bohm was promoted after ~13 PA – his final line was inflated due to the rehab trip he took there.

   2. He will probably only be there another game or two based on Haseley and Bohm. They both had ~12 AB in GCL before being sent up to Williamsport (Bohm’s final GCL line had more AB, but that was due to the rehab stint he spend there).

      Hopefully he is done in GCL though – rust appears to be gone.

10. Was Troya suspended by the league or by Lakewood?

11. Joe Giglio thinks Phillies should surrender prospects and youth to the Tigers for Boyd.

    https://www.nj.com/phillies/2019/07/mlb-trade-rumors-why-tigers-matthew-boyd-is-worth-price-tag-risk-for-philadelphia-phillies.html

    1. I would offer anyone but Bohm and Howard. Stott isn’t eligible to be traded, not that I would. Risk? Yeah, some. But I would really hate the thought that 5 years from now that there will be a thread on Phuture Phillies where we’re bashing Klentak for not acquiring a Cy Young award winning pitcher. Will he be one? How the hell do I know but right freakin’ now he’s got elite command of the strike zone.

       1. I would start with Haseley and Medina. (I know, I know….Medina Medina Medina….while everyone thinks he’s that good, I’ll redeem his value.)

12. Stott with 2 ground ball singles AND he just hit a Line drive triple to LEFT field!!

    EEXCITING!!

    Send him to Lakewood!!

    1. Wsport next up

13. Shouldn’t Puello be called over to the GCL? It’s his 2nd year there.

    1. Thought the same…..but I think a Temporary Worker Visa must be obtained and must be taken care before the seasons starts.
       So there could be a delay if it was not begun prior to the season starting.
       Not sure how long they take…..or maybe they have one ready to go.
       But normally guys do not go from the DSL to the GCL mid-stream.
       Perhaps there may have been one player before who may have done it, but I do not recall.

       1. There’s always an exception. In this case, Ramon Rosso. The Phillies signed him as a free agent in June 2017 and assigned him to the DSL. After 9 appearances he was promoted to the GCL on July 27th. Two appearances later he was bumped up to Williamsport on August 9th.

          Now, that was his age 21 season, but he was signed in July 2015 by the Dodgers, and assigned to their DSL team June 2016 before being released 6 weeks later. I think the Phillies saw him in Spain when they signed him.

14. Murry..Wsport..Nah,skip that nice town,seems like our hitters suck there lately..

    Just kidding,Wsport is fine,not sure why Bohm struggled there last year.

    1. He got hit in the left leg and developed a left shin contusion in July and was ut awhile.

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