Open Discussion: Week of July 1st

The 39-38 Phillies went 5-2 last week.  They swept the Mets but then lost 2 of 3 to the Marlins.  And, they had to come back from behind in all 4 Mets game.  Yeah, it’s great that they were able to rally back, but why are they falling behind like that to the Mets?  At home?  And then blowing a 6-1 lead in Miami.  Not great outcomes as I see it.

A 6-10 record in this NL East portion of their schedule is very poor.  They can’t win the division if they can’t beat their division foes.  Especially the Marlins.  Their trip thru the East continues with 3 games in Atlanta and 3 games in New York.  And, then 3 against Washington after the All Star break.

They stand at 44-40 .524, 5.5 games back.

This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for Phillies and other baseball topics.  Still don’t want to hear about any mythical Trout trades.

Key Dates:

  • July 2, 2019 – June 15, 2020 – International signing period
  • July 12, 2019 – End of Rule 4 signing period
  • July 31, 2019 – Non-waiver trade deadline
  • September 1, 2019 – Roster expansion to 40 players (for the last time)
  • September 17, 2019 – beginning of the Arizona Fall League
  • October 12, 2019 – Arizona Fall Stars Game
  • October 27, 2019 – Arizona Fall League Championship Game

The rosters and lists are up to date. 

Transactions 

6/30/2019 – Fernando Salas outrighted to Lehigh Valley

6/29/2019 – Carlos Valero assigned to GCL West
6/29/2019 – RHP Jose Taveras assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
6/29/2019 – Clearwater activated RF Danny Mayer from the 7-day IL
6/29/2019 – RHP Gilmael Troya assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood
6/29/2019 – RHP Michael Gomez assigned to Lakewood from Williamsport
6/28/2019 – Phillies signed CF Marcus Lee Sang
6/28/2019 – Phillies signed OF Jadiel Sanchez
6/28/2019 – Phillies activated RHP Tommy Hunter from the 60-day IL
6/28/2019 – Phillies activated CF Adam Haseley from the 10-day IL
6/28/2019 – Phillies designated RHP Fernando Salas for assignment
6/28/2019 – Phillies optioned Adam Haseley to Lehigh Valley
6/28/2019 – Lehigh Valley placed RHP Luke Leftwich on the 7-day IL, right biceps inflammation
6/28/2019 – RHP Connor Brogdon assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/28/2019 – RHP Grant Dyer assigned to Reading from Clearwater
6/28/2019 – RHP Luis Carrasco assigned to Clearwater from Lakewood
6/28/2019 – Clearwater placed RF Ben Aklinski on the 7-day IL
6/28/2019 – RHP Andrew Schultz assigned to Lakewood from GCL East
6/28/2019 – Lakewood released LF Jimmy Smith
6/28/2019 – RHP Tyler Burch assigned to Williamsport from GCL West
6/28/2019 – 2B Christian Valerio assigned to GCL West from Williamsport
6/28/2019 – 2B Edgar Made assigned to GCL West from Williamsport
6/27/2019 – Phillies signed SS Bryson Stott
6/27/2019 – Lehigh Valley placed LHP Josh Tols on the 7-day IL
6/27/2019 – Clearwater sent RHP Spencer Howard on a rehab assignment to GCL West
6/27/2019 – RHP Daniel Vilchez assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/27/2019 – RHP Victor Vargas assigned to GCL East from GCL West
6/27/2019 – LHP Hunter Milam assigned to GCL Philies East
6/27/2019 – Enyel De Los Santos activated by Lehigh Valley
6/27/2019 – Spencer Van Scoyoc activated by GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Starlyn Castillo assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Hilton Dyar assigned to GCL West
6/26/2019 – LHP Josh Hendrickson assigned to GCL West
6/26/2019 – RHP Gunner Mayer assigned to GCL West
6/26/2019 – Erik Miller assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Brett Schulze assigned to GCL West
6/26/2019 – RHP Brendan Bell assigned to GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Adam Leverett assigned to GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Jamie Sara assigned to GCL East
6/26/2019 – RHP Daniel Vilchez assigned to GCL East from GCL West
6/25/2019 – SS Kervin Pichardo assigned to DSL Red
6/24/2019 – Phillies signed free agent SS Kervin Pichardo to a minor league contract
6/25/2019 – Phillies sent RHP Tommy Hunter on a rehab assignment to Reading
6/25/2019 – Lehigh Valley placed RHP Josh Martin on the 7-day IL, right calf strain
6/25/2019 – Reading sent RHP Connor Seabold on a rehab assignment to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Emiliano Brazon assigned to DSL Red
6/24/2019 – Phillies transferred LF Andrew McCutchen from the 10- to 60-day IL, ACL
6/24/2019 – Phillies sent CF Adam Haseley on a rehab assignment to Reading
6/24/2019 – Phillies optioned Enyel De Los Santos to Lehigh Valley
6/24/2019 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Fernando Salas from Lehigh Valley
6/24/2019 – RHP Jose Taveras assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/24/2019 – Lehigh Valley placed RHP Drew Anderson on the 7-day IL
6/24/2019 – RHP Waylon Richardson assigned to Clearwater from GCL West
6/24/2019 – GCL East placed RHP Brian Auerbach on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – GCL East placed RHP Bailey Cummings on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – GCL East placed RHP Yoan Antonac on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – LHP Maikel Garrido assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – LHP Brenden Kudlinski assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Andrew Schultz assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Jose Ulloa assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – C Micah Yonamine assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – 2B Wilfredo Flores assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – LHP Tyler Adams assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Albertus Barber assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RF Jose Cedeno assigned to GCL East from DSL White
6/24/2019 – RF Luis Matos assigned to GCL East from GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Carlos Betancourt assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Starlyn Castillo assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Carlos Francisco assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – RHP Juan Geraldo assigned to GCL East from DSL White
6/24/2019 – LHP Nick Lackney assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – C Kevin Escalante assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – C Vito Friscia assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – LHP Jordi Martinez assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – LHP Spencer Van Scoyoc assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – 2B Curtis Mead assigned to GCL East from GCL West
6/24/2019 – GCL West placed RHP Eudiver Avendano on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – GCL West placed RHP Sandro Rosario on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – RHP Daniel Vilchez assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/24/2019 – LHP Juan Miranda assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Nicoly Pina assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – SS Jamari Baylor assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – SS Chris Cornelius assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – SS Sal Gozzo assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Aidan Anderson assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Dalvin Rosario assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Eduar Segovia assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Lizardo Herrera assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Chi-Ling Hsu assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Hsin-Chieh Lin assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/24/2019 – LF Juan Carlos Smith assigned to GCL West from GCL East
6/24/2019 – 2B Jose Rivera assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – C Carlos Oropeza activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Tyler Burch assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – LHP Austin Crowson assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Connor Hinchliffe assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Fernando Lozano assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – LHP Brian Marconi assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Luis Pacheco assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – LHP Riley Wilson assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – C Freddy Francisco assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – C Herbert Iser assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – C Andrick Nava assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – C Bruce Wang assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – CF Keaton Greenwalt assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – CF Johan Rojas assigned to GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Engel Estevez activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – RHP Robinson Martinez assigned to GCL West from XST
6/24/2019 – LHP Camilo Hinestroza assigned to DSL White
6/24/2019 – GCL West released Ryan Asencio
6/24/2019 – DSL Red released Freddy Barreto
6/24/2019 – GCL West released Keudy Bocio
6/24/2019 – DSL Red released Mani Boekhoudt
6/24/2019 – DSL Red released Christopher Duran
6/24/2019 – DSL Red released Carlos Mendoza
6/24/2019 – DSL White released Luiggi Mujica
6/24/2019 – Cole Irvin activated by Lehigh Valley
6/24/2019 – Jesse Wilkening assigned to Lakewood TIL from GCL East
6/24/2019 – Brendan Bell activated by GCL East
6/24/2019 – Starlyn Castillo assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – Kevin Escalante assigned to GCL East
6/24/2019 – Hunter Milam activated by GCL East
6/24/2019 – Jamie Sara activated by GCL East
6/24/2019 – Chris Micheles assigned to GCL East (PND)
6/24/2019 – GCL West placed Lizardo Herrera on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – GCL West placed Chi-Ling Hsu on the 60-day IL
6/24/2019 – Hilton Dyar activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – Josh Hendrickson activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – Gunner Mayer activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – Brett Schulze activated by GCL West
6/24/2019 – Hermes Astudillo assigned to DSL Red
6/24/2019 – Erick Brito assigned to DSL Red
6/24/2019 – Eiberson Castellano assigned to DSL Red
6/24/2019 – Carlos Hernandez assigned to DSL Red from DSL White
6/24/2019 – Kervin Pichardo assigned to DSL Red from GCL East
6/24/2019 – Jonathan Rodriguez assigned to DSL Red from GCL East
6/24/2019 – Saul Alcala assigned to DSL White from GCL West
6/24/2019 – Victor Cairo assigned to DSL White from DSL Red
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed C Micah Yonamine
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed RHP Jose Ulloa
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed RHP Andrew Schultz
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed LHP Tyler Adams
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed RHP Carlos Francisco
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed LHP Nick Lackney
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed LHP Spencer Van Scoyoc
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed C Vito Friscia
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed FA RHP Albertus Barber to a minor league contract
6/23/2019 – Phillies signed FA LHP Brenden Kudlinski to a minor league contract

347 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 1st

  1. Quinn still looks absolutely lost at the plate. At some point he needs to find a swing and actually hit a ball hard or he will be released. It’s tough with a 4 man bench to carry him and Sean Rodriguez, who provides little value. I’d much rather have Gosselin or Romine than Rodriguez. It looks like Miller will be sticking around for awhile as he’s hit and played the field well plus he’s been an enthusiastic bench teammate apparently. As for the rotation, Help!

    1. Speaking of Quinn, I’m wondering what the plan for Haseley is. The Phillies acquired Miller after he was placed on the IL. However, neither Quinn nor Rodriguez merit to stay with the big club. This may be a case of where they see Franco getting the bulk of the starts at 3b while Kingery holds down CF, so there really is no need (for the time being) to recall Haseley.

      I guess I just thought it through out loud. Thanks.

      1. They have to wait 10 days from sending him down to recall him
        I could see them maybe putting him in CF, Kingery at 3B, Franco on bench or maybe Cesar becomes trade bait for an important piece
        Nick W and CeHe get traded as part of a package for a SP
        Just dumb speculation on my part

      2. Kingery is not looking like a good defensive 3B yet, but we need to remember he is learning on the fly this year there. Quinn has all kinds of potential but so little to show for it. As for Haseley he hits from wrong side and if he replaces Quinn that makes all the OF lefthanded except Kingery a 2Bman by trade.

        1. BobD……if all the OF is LHBs….all the infield is RHBs…..with Cesar both ways….there is still a constructive lineup balance.

  2. Does anybody else think Quinn just needs to play everyday in AAA until he finds his stroke and get’s some confidence?

    1. That would be ideal, but with him, it’s like buying a Christmas toy from Radio Shack – there are only so many times you can use it before it’s busted. You hate using up those AAA at bats because it seemingly gets him closer to another injury and therein lies the biggest problem with Quinn, as talented as he is (and he sure is!).

    2. I believe Quinn is running out of time. He needs to find it and find it quick. His decision to stop switch hitting has lessoned his value in that with his blazing speed from the left side when bunting and even infield ground balls made him difficult to catch a 1b. Taking that away has reduced him to a defensive outfielder and pinch runner IMO. If he can’t get on base he is not much of an asset.

      1. He is running out of time, but I was a lot less optimistic about his chances to produce at the major league level. He’s already 26, and he’s played only 82 games since 2016. At this point, he’s a 4th/5th OF.

        1. I was never big on him either although his speed made him desirable if he could develop and maximize his other skills. The fact that he has proven himself to be less than durable is also a detriment.

  3. Even before the Phillies’ June swoon, Fangraphs had Atlanta projected as division winner. Those people seem to know what they’re talking about and they certainly can read the tea leaves. While I’m still holding hope for a playoff berth (if only as a fan), my focus is shifting to the 2020 season and Bohm’s arrival. Let’s hope Klentak plays his cards right. He’s done very well with half the roster with exception of the bench – Rodriguez?!?! – he’s virtually left the pitching staff in utter disarray.

  4. As much as I like CeHe he has to be moved sooner than later. My dad always said there is an arse for every seat so on a contending club Cehe might provide them with depth and on a rebuilding club maybe he acts as a bridge to that clubs next 2B.

    The time is now for Haseley he’s a 1st rd 8th overall pick from College. The time is now for Scotty to cement himself at 2B his best defensive position.

    At some point Herrera is going to be re-instated and like Osuna coming off of his Domestic getting dealt from Toronto for Giles some club will take a chance on him.

    So I agree 8mark stop the madness and get this squad ready for 2020. Who knows they still might chase down a WC if the put the pieces where they belong.

    1. DMAR – I dont think Odubel gets reinstated. His court date keeps getting pushed and from what I read, his GF was highly bruised.

      Sounds like an ugly deal.

      Just my opinion

      2020 does look brighter

      1. Whatever happens with Odubel, I seriously doubt he’ll play again this season for the Phillies. Besides the uproar from the fans and media, he hasn’t played in a month. Klentak has already mentioned that he can’t count on Odubel for the rest of the season.

        If he’s on the team by spring training, you’ll likely see Odubel on the apology tour, and he will try to rehabilitate his career and image in ST.

    2. You guys don’t get it, the Phillies are trying to win games here. We are NOT rebuilding. Cesar at 2B gives the Phillies the best chance to win for 2019. If you want to talk about 2020, we can talk about that after the season OR when the Phillies are out of it. But right now, Cesar at 2B, Kingery at CF, and a streaky Maikel at 3B gives the Phillies the best chances to win now. We can’t afford to move Scotty to 2B and hope he picks up where he left off. We can’t afford to wait for Haseley to get CF and hope that he hits the ground running. That is what spring training is for. We know you don’t like scenario. But complaining about it every week is not going to make it happen.

      1. Thank you. Hernandez has been one of the most consistent players on the team this year. He isn’t a part of any problem we have, leave him be. Only wish he would tap into his speed more. He has the speed to steal 30 a year and that would turn him into a really good 2B. Right now he’s slightly above average but nothing spectacular.

    1. Unless the Phillies overpay, the mystique of the Red Sox or Yankees wil always get them interested.

    2. I get it V1 – it is always the same teams that sign the big talent – Tampa Bay Rays, Toronto, Cubs, Chisox, Nats, and of course, Dodgers. What always confounds me are some of the small/mid market team signings – Tampa ??? They arguably have the best player now, Wander Franco ?

      1. Florida teams are close to home and an easier place for the players to move their families. It makes a lot of sense. Miami got the Mesa brothers by playing up Miami’s Cuban population.

        As for the Yankees, they get a lot of players because the vast majority of Latin players grew up Yankees fans.

        But it was literally posted on here in the past week about how the Phils were slated to sign one of the top prospects. But he was suspended a year for reasons out of the Phils’ control. Also, we pump out Latin prospects religiously. And they are all still prospects; AKA, 99.9% of them fail. Let’s not go overboard here.

        1. Just for fun, MLB’s top 10 international prospects in 2014;

          Dermis Garcia (Yankees) – hasn’t made it out of A+
          Nelson Gomez (Yankees) – hasn’t made it out of A
          Adrian Rondon (Rays) – hasn’t made it out of A, currently in rookie
          Gilbert Lara (Brewers) – hasn’t made it out of A
          Juan De Leon (Yankees) – hasn’t made it out of A-
          Christopher Acosta (BoSox) – hasn’t played since 2015, so only one season
          Jonathan Amundaray (Yankees) – hasn’t played since 2017, never out of rookie
          Brayan Hernandez (Marlins) – 3 games in AAA in 17, otherwise never above A
          Antonio Arias (Yankees) – Never above rookie
          Anderson Espinoza (BoSox) – hasn’t played since 2016, never above A

          Who did the Phils sign that year? Gamboa, Brito, Jon Arauz, Lenin Rodriguez, and Rodolfo Duran were the “bigger” signings.

          So who wins here? Does anyone? If anything, the Phils got the most value just by virtue of Arauz being involved in a trade for major league players (in the Giles trade).

          It’s worth noting this is excluding Cuban players because that was before the new CBA when Cubans just signed after defecting. Moncada signed with the BoSox that season… but so did Rusney Castillo. One of those signings was a homerun, and the other was hitting into an unassisted triple play.

          So long story short; prospects are volatile. The Latin American market has traditionally been pretty good for the Phils. Don’t fret so much about it.

          1. DanK….the followers are waiting for that Acuna/Soto/Robles/Tatis/Vlad Jr signing.
            And with Luis Garcia there was that hope.
            Personally….I think Ortiz will be the big power guy…in the mold of Andres the Big Cat.

            1. We potentially had that in Sixto, and I really like Morales, personally. And yeah, Ortiz could still end up tapping into that power.

          2. “So long story short; prospects are volatile. The Latin American market has traditionally been pretty good for the Phils. Don’t fret so much about it.”

            >>> boy is that the completely wrong take. the better take is…prospects are volatile, so the best strategy is to buy elite prospects every year…which is exactly what the Dodgers, Yankees, RedSox do. And why they are able to build elite teams.

            1. Exactly – and when those prospects hit the payoff is enormous. It’s like owning a tech company and shorting your investment in R&D. It’s pretty freaking stupid. But, hey, let’s just keep watching the Braves and Nationals eat our lunch in the L.A. market – that’s a plan.

            2. The Phils haven’t skimped on international spending in over a decade. Your issue is that they don’t sign the specific prospects you want.

              Maybe their evaluation isn’t good enough, or maybe the development isn’t. But the Phils scout and invest in the Latin market as much as any other team. And their success rate with the low bonus guys is actually really good.

            3. No. My issues is that they rarely sign top 10 LatAm prospects and never sign the best LatAm prospect. The highest ranked prospect we signed was Ortiz, who looks like a bust. But we should be signing one of the top 3 LatAm prospects every year. We don’t.

              Garcia may have been a top 10 prospect and he is considered one of our best prospects.

              The Phils have done an ok job in LatAm. Mostly gotten middle relievers and Medina look like a nice signing for $70k. And of course Sixto was a home run for I think $100k. But my frustration is that they don’t ever make a play for the elite, elite prospects.

              If this kid is as good as the scouting reports are they should be willing to pay more than $5m for him.

            4. Really tough call with the Latin kids and projecting their future based on their rankings by BA/MLB’s Jesse Sanchez or Fangraphs…Soto and Tatis were ranked in the 20s..Robles and Acuna not even in the top 30

              Brayan Gonzalez was 25th…Morales was the best RHP 16-year old RHP…..castillo the same….Grullon and Pujols and Grullon , 16 and 17 in 2012…..Garcia and Ortiz were top ten in the 7-9 area..and then Luis Encarnacion number 12 in 2013.
              But guys like Mazara, Gleyber, Eloy, Wander, Rapahel Devers all top five guys and have seem to come around.

            5. Them not signing the top 3 is exactly you having an issue with them not signing specific prospects you want. Just because a publication lists a prospect as the best and you agree with it doesn’t mean that the Phils agree.

              And even if they do agree, they can make every attempt to sign that prospect and still come up short. It’s extremely disingenuous to suggest that the Phillies should just buy the best prospects.

              1) They have a cap to what they can spend. 2) If they’re undoubtedly the best prospects, then all 30 teams are in on them. 3) The players have a say in where they go. If they don’t want to sign with Philly, that’s that.

              The entire process is so complicated. A lot of times these players decide who to sign with before they become the “best” prospects. And most times the best prospects at the time of signing don’t end up being the best player. That’s what my 2014 exercise was to show. You see it as a fluke, but it could very well be that the Phils just have a better grasp on who the better prospects are than the publications. It could also be the case that all the ones you lament not signing we’re just unsignable for the Phils.

            6. Dan. Just look at the history of the top LatAm prospects. I am not saying you can’t find a diamond in the rough. You certainly can. But also the elite prospects have a higher probability of being really good. That is why the best teams routinely sign them.

            7. Gamboa was also ranked at 15 in 2014.

              Arquimedes GamboaRank: 15
              Cumana, VenezuelaHeight: 5’11”, Weight: 158Position: SS
              DOB: 9/23/1997
              Bats: S, Throws: R
              Signed: July 17, 2014 – $900,000

            8. This is actually a very interesting discussion. I think the reason they don’t go after the top guy is a combination of their historical approach and their inability to consistently locate the top talent. Their philosophy is to spread the money around and hope that volume gets you a below-the-radar player who becomes a premier talent but wasn’t expensive. This is not the worst approach for a team that has a hard time consistently identifying the top talents. But it would be better if their scouts could do that and then they could pick and choose their spots.

  5. Can a mid season series be make or break? I’d say this three game set with the Braves is just that. By Thursday night, the Phillies can be anywhere from 8.5 GB to 2.5 GB Atlanta. Also … the Phillies meet the Mets next weekend, while the Braves have to tangle with the Rockies.

    1. The club is playing meh, and even with that, if the Phillies could scratch out 1 win this series, they’d be 5-5 for the season series. Those losses to the marking really hurt. I believe they’d dropped at least 6 to the marlins. If they went 3-3 in those games instead, this isn’t such a make or break series.

      I’m not optimistic about the year anymore. Nola is off his game, and efflin looks to be reverting

      Save the prospect currency for next year. Best case scenario I see is the wildcard. I’ll be shocked if by the end of the season the Phillies can make up those games from the marlins to win the division.

    2. By the way, congrats on you Mets 4 game sweep prediction! I only would have hoped that would have created some momentum.

  6. Hinkie – I’ll settle for 2 out of 3 against the Braves. BTW – Don’t the readjusted prospects lists come out about this time of the season?

    1. Mike … a realistic “best outcome” for the Phillies could be picking up one game this week, picking up another game over the weekend, and be just 3.5 GB Atlanta at the All Star break. The Phillies then play a huge chunk of home games right out of the break, while the Braves will be mostly on the road.

      1. Also … not sure when/if updated prospect lists come out, but I posted mine last week. ICYMI:

        1 Alec Bohm
        2 Adonis Medina
        3 Spencer Howard
        4 Francisco Morales
        5 Bryson Stott
        6 Luis Garcia
        7 Adam Haseley
        8 Mickey Moniak
        9 Mauricio Llovera
        10 Damon Jones
        11 Nick Maton
        12 JoJo Romero
        13 Simon Muzziotti
        14 Colton Eastman
        15 Jhailyn Ortiz
        16 Rafael Marchan
        17 Starlyn Castillo
        18 Dominic Pipkin
        19 Kyle Dohy
        20 Kyle Young
        21 Logan Simmons
        22 Connor Seabold
        23 Devi Grullon
        24 Erik Miller
        25 Victor Santos
        26 Carlos De La Cruz
        27 Logan O’Hoppe
        28 Austin Listi
        29 Kevin Gowdy
        30 Nicolas Torres
        31 Jonathan Guzman
        32 Gunner Mayer
        33 Daniel Brito
        34 Mark Vierling
        35 Bailey Falter
        36 Rodolpho Duran
        37 Juan Aparicio
        38 Fernando Ortega
        39 Jabari Baylor
        40 Manuel Silva

        Next five in line:
        * Ben Brown
        * Alexeis Azuaje
        * David Parkinson
        * Brett Schulze
        * Josh Gessner

          1. Yes. Schulze over Schultz. Schulze may not have the 100 MPH FB, but he’s got really good life on a 95-97 FB, and his control runs circles around Schultz. Schulze also has a chance to be a starter.

    1. As much as I am happy about Listi, c’mon – McCutchen goes immediately back to left field when he’s healthy. He’s a super player and he has quite a bit left in the tank I believe. But I’m with you on the rest of the position players.

    2. If Cutch is not healthy, Bruce is going to get first crack at LF. Listi will get his shot soon enough, but i don’t think he’s starter material. He will have to continue hitting at AAA and absolutely rake in ST.

      1. We will see. If Listi truly rakes for the next month, I could see him getting a call up this year. He’s 25 and fell into their laps. They aren’t going to need or want to be careful with him, which may work out to his benefit. Given that he started the year as cold as can be, his peripherals are pretty darned good and great in June. He walks, he hits, he hits with power, he’s strong, and he’s a pretty good athlete – he’s intriguing for sure.

        1. Listi…..I do not want to get my hopes up high as a I was on Ruf 6 years ago, and then ToJo just a few years ago.
          I like to think he will carve himself a nice little MLB niche……but probably it will have to be with an AL team, where he can also get ABs as a DH.
          An AL team like the Mariners, or Rangers, Royals or Tigers….teams a few years away from contending but who ahve the luxury of non-pressure situations and can use him in specific roles

          1. The difference is that Listi has a legitimate back story that explains why he is just hitting AAA at age 25. He was a soldier for a few years before he went to college. But he has sped through the system very quickly since being drafted – much more quickly than those other guys. He’s gone from rookie ball to AAA in 2 years – that’s really fast.

            1. Yes I know the circumstances behind his older age and late stage.placement
              But ‘ hit no position guys’ are tough to place in the NL
              A team that needs a 1st baseman or LFer can find an opportunity for him.

            2. Yeah, to have a place on this team, he would need to be able to play left field and fill in elsewhere. But sometimes guys surprise you. Max Muncy has been playing second base! And playing it well!!!!!!

            3. Jim – my apologies. You’re right – I should always get my facts straight. Here’s a story that explains his military experience. Apparently he started at Dallas Baptist, left for a year to do SEAL training and then had to leave the Navy due to a blood pressure condition which then resulted in his return to DBU. So he lost a year in transition and then it appears that he was drafted as a senior in 2017, at which point he was 23, rather than a normal senior who would typically be 22.

              Jim – please correct me if I’ve misstated anything and sorry for the lazy fact reporting before. I should have been more careful, especially when I ask others to be correct about reporting facts that are easy to check (as this was).

              https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2017/06/01/true-patriot-austin-listi-left-school-military-returned-become-dbus-career-home-run-leader

    3. Hinkie….wow.
      The 27th listed player in all double A ball across the nation, with a wRC+ of 135, and not even in your top 45!
      Shame. 🙂

        1. Yes…..still on the train.
          Soon their will be seats available on the train for both you and KuKo…..the caboose.

        2. Yeah, I’m not getting the Darick Hall love. His current trajectory has him as a career AAA/AA guy – just not seeing anything more than that . . . at all.

      1. My list runs up to 60 and Hall is no where near the bottom of the ranking.,,,I guess that shame on me too….

  7. Now that Yoshwar Garcia isn’t available to be signed, what do the Phillies do with all their J2 money? Maybe they’ve lucked/stumbled upon this Cuban pitcher.

    1. Hinkie…..do not give up on Jhoswar.
      Once he gets cleared ….he still is on the Phillies radar.
      Might delay his development a little, but can still be in the Phillies phold.

    1. Yes, but with Bohm doing well, the $$ will be best used for a SP like Gerrit Cole. I expect the Nats to open their wallet for Rendon after losing Harper.

      1. Agreed. They said they would buy the bats but they drafted the bats so I expect them to buy arms. I expect them to sign a big pitcher this off season and then again the next year when Arrieta comes off his crappy three year contract. I can’t blame them for trying but so far, he’s been nothing more than a 4 and you don’t pay $25-30 m a year for a 4.

      1. Daniels probably will not decline the offer with him included.
        And possibly Grullon in it as well, along with expected pitching prospect (s)

      1. The Angels organization are familiar with that situation very well. It’s just sad to see people go out ahead of their time. Go back to memories of Doc (RIP), despite not being an active player anymore, Doc still went too soon.

        1. Yeah.
          I remember way back when Darryl Kile, pitcher of the Cardinals was found dead in his hotel.
          It is a tragedy and difficult situation for families, and all of the baseball friends and fans.

          1. The Tyler Skaggs news is devastating. I, like KuKo, had (at one time) dreamed of Skaggs and Mike Trout playing for the Phillies. He was just married this winter. I know Skaggs and Garrett Richards were Mike Trout’s best friends in baseball.

            This is Skaggs and his now wife in Millville for Trout’s wedding https://www.instagram.com/p/BciIyVLnw_H/

            And … who could forget Trout taking Skaggs (a Vikings fan) to the Linc for the Eagles NFC championship game over Minnesota.

            .

            RIP Tyler Skaggs.

      1. I remember when I was a kid the multiple Indian players killed in a freak boating accident in spring training.

        1. Pujols was a teammate of Darryl Kiles and Tyler Skaggs when they died. Very sad to be part of this twice.

  8. Good luck to old friend Tom Eshelman making his MLB debut…

  9. This is a general question, and I would love to see the responses. It’s actually 2 questions. 1. Why is it so hard for teams to develop high school players, both hitters and pitchers? It seems every organization drafts prep bats and arms, and after 3-4 years in their system, the players are still struggling, some barely hitting .200, and pitchers struggling with command. And the second question is there a significant difference in development between a player that gets drafted by a team, signs, and struggles after a couple of years, and a similarly aged player who didn’t sign and went to college? It just seems that a 21 year college player has a more advanced hit tool than a player who has been in a team’s minor league system for three years. What do colleges do different than Major League development instructors?

    1. Thomas,

      in regards to the second question first, I don’t think that colleges are better at developing players but rather by the time a college player gets on the draft radar, the players who never develop beyond what they were in HS have already faded from attention. What’s left are guys who have improved and have also physically matured.

      This I think answers the first question, which is it’s much harder to evaluate physical and mental development in a 17-18 year old coming out of HS than it is to do the same with a 21 year old college guy. Guys that flame out in college do not receive the same attention as guys in the minors. So I don’t think its a question of guys in college developing better than guys in the minors but rather, we are just less aware of college players that don’t advance. Basically, college has already started the separation process.

      Compare it to football. How many guys who are rated as top-100 prospects coming out of HS never develop in college and are then never drafted in the NFL. If football drafted HS players, you would see the same situation.

    2. There have been studies on this over the years and some have concluded the earlier you get a hitter into your system to work with and begin him with a wood bat against better competition the better off he will be.

      That said the flame out rate is very high for prospects in general.

      A true study in my opinion would likely reveal the result is about even. if you are a blue chip high school hitter and we can go down that list you will be just fine and if you are a blue chip college hitter the result will be just fine.

      We have in our own system a bunch of college hitters who will flame out. Romus’ own Darrick Hall is a prime example.

      If there is an edge to the college player maybe it is a maturity factor.

        1. 🙂 believe me I’ve been a fan boy to more than my fair share of busts….

          I thought for sure Tyson Gillies was going to be a beast. Tyson by the way is 30 now and still at it in the Canadian Indy league slashing 337/418/864

    3. @Thomas – i think your questions are related to one another and my simple answer is:

      1) Physical maturity
      2) Development thru level of competition
      3) Athlete develop in different stages

    4. Ask those High School players why. I am confident that they will have an answer for you.

    5. Another thought on HS players is maybe they are developing, just not looking like it on the information available to you. Many college drafted players have the same issues as the High School drafted players. I am seeing many High school players develop. Each year teams are able to draft 40 players plus international and then other signees. Obviously not all of the players in the minor league system are going to be Big Leaguers. The saying can be for all those minor league players “MLB or bust.” It is a grind and the grand prize is hard to attain. But when a High School graduate is offered bonus money, 100% college money plus college living expenses why not see if those minor league coaches, coordinators and whoever else wants to get their claim are able to develop. At least those HS players have the opportunity that those college wash outs didn’t have but wished they did. I say it’s a win for those high school players.

  10. Some July 2nd International Signing Facts from MLB:
    —————————————————————————–

    Clubs that receive a Competitive Balance Pick in Round B of the Draft receive a pool of $6,481,200 for spending on international prospects, while clubs that receive a Competitive Balance Pick in Round A receive $5,939,800. The remaining teams get bonus pools of $5,398,300 each.

    The Dodgers and Phillies lost $500,000 for signing free agents A.J. Pollock and Bryce Harper, respectively, and have bonus pools of $4,821,400. The Nationals have $4,321,400 to spend after signing free agent Patrick Corbin and exceeding the luxury tax last season. And the Braves do not have a bonus pool this year due to their violation of international signing guidelines.

    $6,481,200: D-backs, Orioles, Indians, Rockies Royals, Pirates, Padres and Cardinals
    $5,939,800: Reds, Marlins, Brewers, Twins, A’s and Rays
    $5,398,300: Red Sox, Cubs, White Sox, Tigers, Astros, Angels, Mets, Yankees, Giants, Mariners, Rangers and Blue Jays
    $4,821,400: Dodgers and Phillies
    $4,321,400: Nationals
    $0: Braves

    Teams are allowed to trade as much of their international pool money as they would like, but can only acquire 60 percent of a team’s initial pool amount

  11. I was somewhat off yesterday and had the pleasure (or not) of watching the Jays and their young squad take on the Royals. Vlad Junior 20 is fun to watch and Cavin Biggio 24 who the Phillies drafted but couldn’t lure away from Notre Dame is coming into his own.

    Freddy Galvis is still quite a player hitting oppo and CF dingers. Still a tragically low OBP guy and I wouldn’t take that deal back as I still believe in DLS.

    And once Bo Bichette arrives they should be a team that puts up a ton of runs. They still can’t pitch.

    It was only a few short years ago those two teams faced off in the ALCS. The Royals at that time were the one of the younger teams and the Jays one of the oldest. My how quickly the windows close.

  12. Gerrit Cole is going to be 29 he is going to command a Greinke/Price type deal are you doing it?

    I don’t believe however Houston is going to let him get away.

    1. DMAR…Houston is up against it….don’t forget Correa will demand king’s ransom also after the 2020 season, a year prior to his FA…they will definitely try to lock him up or risk a Manny/Bryce scenario..

        1. @DMAR – I’m probably the biggest “sign Gerrit Cole this offseason” here and I do agree with you that HOU will have room to sign Cole. However, other teams like the Phillies will have room too and big spenders not only will create room but open their wallet too just to add an elite arm like Gerrit Cole. NYY for one will have a close eye on Gerrit Cole as they drafted him before the PIT did.

          HOU will initiate a negotiation during the season but they know that the $$ will go up if they can’t lock Gerrit Cole before he hits FA. Realistically, Gerrit Cole will test FA like Corbin to get his chance of the biggest contract or his career. This is where HOU might balk. They have Forrest Whitley to call up and HOU has been known to find and develop talents so they will use that $$ for something else rather than go to bidding war with PHI and NYY and other teams.

          1. DMAR/KuKo….not quites sure how you determine the Astros will have plenty of room. The will also need starting pitchers, outside of Cole…Peacock and McHugh
            Granted lance McC…come back after surgery and Whitley is coming up but they still have questions.
            …and Vrlander takes a big chunk.
            Throw Correa in there at $30M plus AAV after next year….and quite soon they are getting on up there.
            Now I can see Springer being moved for a starter but if they do not get what they want in return vs moving Tucker, then Springer as an Arb 4 guy will get close to $20M ….ala Rendon of the Nats.

            https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-houston-astros-info/

          2. DMAR/KuKo….not quites sure how you determine the Astros will have plenty of room. The will also need starting pitchers, outside of Cole…Peacock and McHugh
            Granted lance McC…come back after surgery and Whitley is coming up but they still have questions.
            …and Vrlander takes a big chunk.
            Throw Correa in there at $30M plus AAV after next year….and quite soon they are getting on up there.
            Now I can see Springer being moved for a starter but if they do not get what they want in return vs moving Tucker, then Springer as an Arb 4 guy will get close to $20M ….ala Rendon of the Nats.

            1. @romus – couple of things…

              1st – HOU will have about $100M wiggle room in 2020 (additional $40M coming off in 2021, etc) to work around if they need to sign Cole, Correa, Springer and McCullers without exceeding the threshold. Both Correa and McCullers have 2 more years of control so HOU can structure the contract where Correa and McCullers receive smaller amount of $ in 2020 then increase in 2021 and on wards when salaries of Gurriel, Reddick and Brantley goes off the books. The $100M buffer plus another $40M going off the books after 2020 can certainly fit the $30M+ AAV that Gerrit Cole will command.

              2nd – eventhough I think HOU will have room, I don’t think they will want themselves commit to a big amount of contract to a lot of players. So Gerrit Cole can be a casualty of that —- this is where I disagree with DMAR and make Gerrit Cole a target by the Phillies.

            1. @DMAR – what do you mean playing for his home state? I thought Gerrit Cole was a Californian dude – he played for PIT and HOU – those cities are not in CA.

              Gerrit Cole is one of those high upside who bet on himself and won. NYY drafted him in Rd 1 pick 28. It is a good spot for sure, but Gerrit Cole and his advisors are just confident that staying in college for 3 more years will increase his stock and they are right when Gerrit Cole was almost unanimous #1 R4 prospect R4.

            2. I wish Matt Klentak would have done the smart thing last winter, and signed Garrett Richards to the TJ rehab deal I had been begging for all last season/offseason. He didn’t. AJ Preller did. The Padres are going to have a stud RHP in their 2020 rotation at a very cheap price.

              That said … here’s an “off the radar” pitcher to keep an eye on this offseason (for 2020 and beyond): Takahiro Norimoto.
              Yes, he’s another Japanese arm who may (or may not) be open to playing in Philadelphia (another chance for Middleton/MacKlentak to adopt the Hinkie Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto plan … #Morimoto4Norimoto).
              Takahiro Norimoto has been one of the top arms in the Pacific League for the past half dozen years. He’s 28 YO, and he’s a small (5’10”) RHP with big velo (up to 96 MPH). He also features a plus slider and a “swing and miss” splitter. His contract is up after this season, and he wants to be posted.

              Here’s Norimoto’s one appearance against MLB hitters. It happened in an All Star game a few years ago. Norimoto held the MLB All Stars hitless over 5 IP.

              .

  13. This year’s J2 signing feels like a HS Senior Party that everyone is invited except the Phillies. Big teams are getting their new toys while the Phillies are outside looking in the recycle bin.

    1. Romus was correct yesterday when he said the Phillies may still sign Yoshwar Garcia. Apparently, the signing will happen after Garcia serves his suspension. I believe he’ll be able to sign/play next spring (March 2020).
      Not sure if this means the Phillies will get any sort of discount on the young OFer.
      Hopefully, Garcia lives up to the Victor Robles comps some have put on him.

    2. Nothing among top 30 players as ranked by MLB. Of course the Yankees signed #1 Jasson Dominguez, OF @ $5MM.

      Phillies? …. [Crickets]

      1. 8mark … Yoshwar Garcia would have been a top 10 J2 player if not for the suspension. Fangraphs had him at #6 prior to the suspension.

  14. I think the Phillies are putting money in the International market.there signing players from all over.
    Plus some of the biggest LA players were smaller $ signing.

  15. They have Garcia signed for 2 mil .he cant sign until next yr do to a suspension.

  16. If Klentak is shopping for backend bullpen and bench upgrades at the deadline, what would you offer the Blue Jays for Ken Giles and Freddy Galvis?

    1. Okay, don’t everyone jump in at once. How about Medina, Gamboa and Listi for Giles and Freddy?

      1. This is a fair offer…but I don’t want to do it. The Phillies need starter help badly. Yes, there’s no guarantees with Medina but relievers are notoriously volatile. Phillies would likely need 2 starters next year (VV and Pivetta are out) and Arrieta will be gone the year after. Even if we sign Gerritt Cole, there are spots open. Medina/Howard/Jones should get long looks.

      2. Nah I saw one live start of Medina and I’m holding his stock for a while longer or not giving it up for a Volatile BP arm and Freddy who is a nice kid and great story but same old no OBP skills.

    2. Trade more prospect assets for ex-prospect/young player assets that we already discarded? Concept doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

      If the argument is that we shouldn’t have traded those guys away in the first place, then why are people lobbying to trade Cesar, rather than plug him in at a bench role and have Kingery play everyday 2B?

  17. I’m glad Kapler didn’t blow the off day to our disadvantage. He wised up by pitching Nola tonight and Sunday before the break. He could then pitch on 4 days rest vs the Nats at home the following Friday, which would set him up for LAD the next week. He’s still our most reliable arm by far. I remember last season when Gabe didn’t use him in a similar situation. Nola pitched one inning of the all star game (akin to being his usual side day) and could have started the 1st game after the break that Friday. But no….Gabe was preserving his ace. For what, still nobody knows. Maybe someone got in his ear?

    1. 3 straight excellent performances, tonight being vintage Nola….he’s back!

      Tomorrow night they will need to bring the lumber against Wilson who’s ERA is over 8.00, while we can’t count on Pivetta being “the best version of himself” as Gabe likes to say.

      Eflin goes against an all star in Soroka on Thursday. Let’s take 2 of 3 and head to NY.

    2. Last night was another strong case for the automated ump. How do you miss pitches right down the middle let alone balls that were catching the upper corners all night. Horrible. And yes it was both ways.

      Nola’s night would have been even more outstanding than it was. Neris too. He really kept his composure after one of his pitches was called a ball that was clearly in the box and not even close.

      When and where is Harper going to put it together and become the player Middleton shelled out stupid money for.

      it’s the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

    3. Yes, he was super yesterday, but his last performance against the Mets was epic – 7 IP, 1 hit, 1 walk, 10 Ks – wow!!!

      1. Need to be aggressive. First strike, pound the ball. The scouting report they will give the kid is we look at pitches and he will want to pitch ahead.

  18. Does anybody have a clue when Neshak and Dominguez might be back? Will they be rehabbing anytime soon? We sure could use both back after the All Star break.

    1. Read where Seranthony may be back by late July, shortly after Robertson. Neshek? To be honest, don’t know, don’t care.

      1. 8mark…that is very optimistic on Seranthony…..PRPdoes take awhile… 6 weeks, could be 8 weeks. My guess Labor Day.

        1. Any thoughts of bringing Siranthony back as a starter. Maybe the reliever regiment is not for him.

          1. Denny…it was tried up to 2017 and finally in 2017 .his shoulder gave out early in the season, and he was down for two months.
            He may have strengthened it, but I really doubt they want to go down that path again and try stretching him out now with the UCL issues and hopefully the PRP works….there is no guarantees it will work…Garrett Richards’ PRP procedure failed and he had to undergo TJ and lost more time.
            Nola’s and Tanaka’s seem to have worked…so who knows.

  19. Braves going with Bryce Wilson tonight…he has a 8.6 ERA, 5.6 FIP and 1.8 WHIP,
    Phillies’ cannot be over-confident.

    1. Romus – He’s (Wilson) very young, and hasn’t pitched a lot of innings (8.2) this year. The key will be Pivetta’s performance. A couple of long balls are acceptable only if they’re solo HR’s.

      1. The Phillies can’t be bedazzled by Wilson and expect Pivetta to shut down that Braves lineup for the 2nd straight night. And they need to jump on Wilson early.

  20. 8mark – Agree. Put the pressure on the kid, and keep it on. Hopefully, we can get into the Braves bullpen by the 5th or 6th inning.

  21. Odubel’s domestic violence case has been dismissed as his girlfriend wouldn’t proceed with the case.

    1. As expected……I am sure she got her few hundred thousand $$$ and new car and she is happy.

      1. A return to Philadelphia would be a PR disaster. Perhaps Texas would have him back, or Toronto, as a reclamation project. He may be humbled by this and clean up his act. Who knows, but it won’t be here. He still isn’t baseball smart even if he wises up off the field.

        1. ‘He may be humbled by this and clean up his act’…..if the goldie- lock gold-tipped treads are cut off, we will know he had to change..

        2. Whether he could survive here or not is a matter of conjecture. Brett Myers survived something similar. He would need to take his medicine, show extreme regret and change and he would need to change his general approach to life because he was approaching his work as a baseball player in a haphazard fashion too. I think we will know very soon if he has a chance to redeem himself here or if he will be moved to another team. The Phillies just may have had enough of his act and want to move on and, really, who could blame them? It’s unfortunate because Odubel seriously has MVP type talent, but has not consistently applied himself yet.

          1. Theo found out the hard way with Addison Russell…..other teams balk at taking on a player under those circumstances….I assume they do not want the bad will that goes with it in these times.
            So I think the Phillies will be stuck with him.
            He does the remaining suspension…the treatment protocol…then the minor league ‘rehab’ bit….and then Klentak will have to decide to re-instate onto the 25.

  22. All depends on what that player can do for you, Astros needed a closer and had no issue taking on Osuna after domestic violence suspension. In the NFL all pro WR Tyreke Hill, who dropped in the draft for assault on his pregnant girlfriend, is on audio discussing the feat his son and girlfriend have from him and possibility he broke 4 year old son’s arm, yet Chiefs have not cut him. It’s all about talent and the MOST IMPORTANT thing, is there video evidence. The public can explain away a lot except for visual evidence.

  23. i believe that if he serves his punishment, that he deserves another chance, as was the case with mike vick. i hope the phillies see it that way and don t overreact to the pr pressures. time will tell but he is on a very slippery slope and will have to demonstrate some serious change as a person and a ball player.

  24. How does Caleb Smith look as a possible trade option for the Phillies? I only know what I’ve read about him, but he appears to be an up and coming pitcher. Currently, he’s about ready to come off the IL (hip injury). Miami is looking for future offense. Could Haseley and Listi get the deal done, or would it take more?

    1. Haseley for an unproven 27 yo upcomer in Caleb Smith? Trevor Bauer is 28 and will not sign long term with CLE with very good pitching pedigree and proven MLB track record. Bauer is a knucklehead but so is Harper. Winning teams can fix attitudes. IMO, Trevor Bauer is the better target. But I still prefer the sign Gerrit Cole way so mo prospect equity is needed.

      Also, with the accelerated timeline, the Phillies can no longer afford to burn their prospect equity with wait and see talent like Caleb Smith.

      1. KuKo … you know I have tons of respect for your opinions … but … in no universe is Bryce Harper anything like Trevor Bauer. Harper has been a great teammate. He’s respectful of fans and other players (on his own team and around the league). Calling Bauer a knucklehead, is like saying Ken Jennings is pretty good Jeopardy player. Bauer is a terrible person, and a horrible teammate. Read this story documenting his twitter harassment of college co-ed.
        https://deadspin.com/trevor-bauer-has-been-harassing-a-woman-for-more-than-a-1831545503

        And here’s a tweet announcing he was more deserving of the Cy Young than his own teammate.

        .

        Harper is nothing like Bauer. Under no circumstances should Matt Klentak introduce that cancer to the Phillies clubhouse.

        1. @Hinkie – no offense taken. Maybe you’re right to say that Harper is no Bauer but the Phillies took a creep like Ocho Cinco (Papelbon) into the club house and some teams continue to employ athletes with bad behavior (gun pointing, domestic violence, etc). I don’t know Trevor Bauer personally so I cannot defend him but what I know, winning environment cures a lot of things.

          I’m certain that a FO led by Middleton will confirm these issues with Bauer’s team if they will plan to engage them.

          Nonetheless, for me, Bauer is a good talent and unless there’s a verifiable evidence that he has violent tendencies, I think he can be given a 2nd chance.

          1. KK – You mentioned Middleton. I’d bet anything that he would tell Klentak that he does not want Bauer on his team.

          2. Knucklehead or not, his chest puffing stance that he won’t sign for more than one year tells me ‘nyet’. Great talent but that type of star fizzles fast.

          3. Fans are more peculiar than athletes. I remember fans view Hamels as whining california dude who is weak. Hamels once said that he will not take discount to resign with Phillies, can’t wait for the 2009 to end and all that stuff. Harper said that $400M is under selling him and what not.

            People are wired differently and it is hard to have a group of saints and good natured dudes. Even the freaking Avengers have some bad dudes in their team.

            I like athletes who perform. As long as they are not detrimental to the performance of the team and their team mates and will not destroy the integrity of the City and the Front Office, I’m OK with them. MLB has rules established to regulate code of conduct and ethical values. If MLB said that Trevor Bauer is a bad dude, then I don’t want him. But as of now, MLB is cool with him, so I’m cool with him.

            I rather have a creep who performs rather than a stiff (Sandberg) and a prick (Amaro) who are mediocre.

            1. I think your faith in our Front Office and the Manager is not justified by the pitching problems we have had this year. Also, unless you knew Sandberg and Amaro personally I don’t know how you can print such accusations. How did they even get in the discussion?

            2. I’ve watched and listened to a lot of Rhyno and RAJs interviews during their tenure. My comment about Rhyno being stiff is not about his personality but his demeanor —- which is obvious to the naked eye unless you’re blind.

              On Amaro, the one most common word associated with him is his “smugness” which is similar to being a prick or arrogant. Arrogance manifest by itself and you don’t need to know Amaro personally to know that he is arrogant

            3. Have you really watched Kapler’s and Klentak’s press conferences? Tell me that they are not smug and arrogant. I just think that watching videos is not a good way to judge people. There are only 32 MLB GM’s and Managers so yes they have to have self confidence.

            4. My opinion of Rhyno and Amaro are not just my own. I don’t need to name all the people who shared the same sentiments but I’m certain that it the most common observation. If you disagree, that’s fine. I spent so much time and money about my Phillies that I’m confident about my own observation about them,

              I’ve watched Kapler and Klentak too. Both gentlemen doesn’t have the arrogance of Amaro.

              The are numerous threads in this site where posters expressed their option of Rhyno, Amaro, Kapler and Klentak. Just look it up if you want to see them.

    2. I believe the Marlins said that they don’t want to trade Caleb Smith but you never know. Smith will turn 28 this month so he’s on the older side but he’s having an excellent year and won’t be a FA for a while. He’s not elite, but he has the look of a #3 pitcher. Hasely and Listi will NOT get it done. Start with Medina and go from there.

      1. Medina and Odubel (announced as a PTBNL until his status is resolved?) might get it done. May need to add Listi as well.

      2. Medina and Odubel (announced as a PTBNL until his status is resolved?) might get it done. May need to add Listi as well. Klentak needs to show his creative side here.

      3. Ugh, I am just so not a fan of buy high, sell low strategies. That’s how value and talent seeps out of your organization and you lose depth and, over time, places in the standings.

    3. The prospective trades in this site always make me laugh. No way the Marlins trade Smith in the division without Bohm being involved. I imagine Howard or Medina would also be invoked and then one other good prospect of two lottery tickets.

      1. Aron – I’d say no to any deal involving Bohm because Franco is Franco, and the organization is thin at 3B.

      2. I don’t think Smith is worth a top prospect like Bohm but several lesser pieces to help rebuild their system. In any case, we aim to amuse. I retract my proposal yesterday which would send Medina to Toronto. Upon further thought, I would save him for a package for a TOR.

  25. Fourth round pick Erik Miller makes Eric Longenhagen’s list of LHP prospects who have some Clayton Kershaw traits.
    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/lets-find-some-clayton-kershaws-to-scale/
    Some of the others making the Fangraphs’ list are: MacKenzie Gore, Joey Wentz, Ethan Small (one of my favorite 2019 draft prospects), and Burl Carraway (a sophomore at DBU who I mocked to the Phillies in the second round of the 2020 draft a couple/few weeks ago).

    1. Wonder why he would not add someone like O’s Hall on that list of Kershaw trait minor leaguers!

    1. I agree that money certainly helps some get more justice than others but I don’t think Odubel’s situation has much to do with money.

      Unfortunately, it’s very common for domestic abuse victims to refuse to press charges against their abusers and they frequently return back into the situation to be abused again.

    2. Unfortunately…outside of a homicide case….it is the common thread in settlements.
      Both parties …plaintiff especially….have to agree however.

  26. The Nick Pivetta Starting Pitching Experiment. Let’s just say he can’t measure up to the better lineups.

    1. He pitched better. But when he’s pitching from the stretch, he turns into a different pitcher. He hung a curve to Donaldson, then he threw a slider that just caught too much of the plate to Riley. He’s talented and still only 26, but with him, it’s all mental. If the Phillies decide to put him in the bullpen, he could be lights out. I think he can go 96-98, tighten up the curve, and perhaps scrap the slider.

      1. I am not following this at all, if he can’t pitch from the stretch how can you put him in the bullpen. Are you planning only to use him to start a fresh inning?

      2. I am not following this at all, if he can’t pitch from the stretch how can you put him in the bullpen. Are you planning only to use him to start a fresh inning?

        1. His problem is not with the stretch, but more because I think he’s so worried about guys on base and limiting damage.

          I’m assuming that his mentality will have to change once he gets into the bullpen. He’s in for 1 inning or 1 batter. Go all out and don’t worry about the loss or runs or anything. Get the guy at the plate.

  27. Pivetta is a hr machine. I mean hr/9 and h/9 are the same as last yr. He hasnt advanced put him in a trade instead of medina.

    1. Ask yourself this, if you’re the other team, would you want Pivetta? And if you do, what would you be willing to give for him? Then you realize all this talk about trading under performing players (VV/Franco included) usually amounts to no action.

      Personally, I would trade for Pivetta, but all I’m giving up is an A ball lottery ticket.

  28. Sometimes it takes 2/3 years before judging a trade…especially starting pitching
    The Giles trade prior to the 2016 season….could go down as one of Klentak’s less than best trades.
    The Paps for Pivetta trade does have a little glimmer made just before Klentak was hired, since Paps did not do much for the Nats and Pivetta has done a little more for the Phillies..

  29. Living on the West Coast, I get to see a lot of Angels games. They replay them in the middle of the night, and in the morning. Last night Trout hit 2 HR’s, but the Angels are not a 1 man show. They are a solid team, and even though they trail the Astros by 8.5 games, they are very much in the wild card race. If they can make the playoffs, they could shock everybody and win it all.

  30. The phillies will be in third place very soon,maybe by the end of today,and may not get higher than that for the rest of this year.

    The question is,can ANYTHING be done about it?

    Klentak??? Gabe ???

    1. Kingery has exceeded expectations and is now coming down to his level. Nola is just recently returning to form. Neris has been solid but not lights out. After them, nobody but nobody is carrying his load. Adding upgrades is problematic enough but even if they make trades, this coaching staff has little to show for their efforts. And my concern is that its organization wide. Even if the collective philosophy is sound, its implementation doesn’t seem to be passing muster.

      I personally don’t think the injuries to the bullpen has made as huge a setback as it’s assumed. Cutch’s absence is by far the biggest bad break to date. But then Bruce has filled in admirably if only as a role player. So yes, it comes down to players performing. But a big question is to what degree has Kapler and his staff been an impingement. Hard for us to know. But it shouldn’t be hard for Klentak and MacPhail to know.

      At day’s end, this starting rotation cannot compete for a playoff berth. It’s Nola and who else do you trust in a big game? The pen is a mish mash.

  31. Dan K. Because one is responsible for the roster and the other one has a track record for players underperforming or not improving under his watch.

      1. The players do have control of their performance. But in the end, if the Phillies don’t make the playoffs, there will be repercussions. Sure, some players will get cut or traded, but the manager is going to get the ax too.

        1. I guess we will all know in the next 5/6 months….if Klentak and Kapler are not offered extensions….then they become lame duck next year, probably on a probation last tour of assignment …..which is concerning to me since Klentak with Kap in his ear, may start moving prospects like Amaro did in 2010/2011 in order for a quick fix.

          1. The Front Office wanted a quick fix and the Comcast Broadcast television rights money which they did get.

            1. That Comcast deal however was struck just 3/4 months prior to the 2014 season….when the team was already in the toaster too long.
              Amaro began wheeling and dealing prospects in 2010 thru 2012.

  32. Dan..Players have no control…course they do,if they underperform for one manager,versus doing better for another manager..
    Ok.. employees…if they go to a better organization they will UP there game and do better,if they go to one that the expected work porformance is lower,they will automatically decrease their performance..
    In other words,you probably won’t get more out of them than you ASK for.

    But maybe…there isn’t any accountability with this organization..

    1. Klentak better keep his hands off that phone. This team ain’t worth sell prospect capital just yet.

      He should be making moves for the LT. Considering they have about 1 SP, I’d consider the Boyd from DET. It’s going to be a high ransom, but he would be the one in my book. By book, I mean a SP on the verge of breaking out, becoming an ace versus one who already is, or in decline. klentak and his crew need to make that call

      My plan:
      This year is scrapped. I’m not buying in this team . An offense with 1 SP. not good enough

      Trade for Boyd to pair with Nola
      Sign FA SP in offseason
      Promote Howard ASAP

      That’s 4 SP, maybe only 3. But with this offense and a health bullpen, that should be something to build on as bohm, Haselely, moniak, stott progress to push out the veterans

      I’ll say for the first time in a very long time I’m disgusted with this team. They are hard to watch, just miss their potential by so much.

    1. Hoskins won’t be enough. He’s not Freeman or even Anthony Rizzo.

      Give Gerrit Cole 6years, $180M and and pray that that contract doesn’t bite us in the end.

        1. Personally, I still have doubts about Gerrit Cole’s ability to be an elite pitcher. He’s had his share of poor WAR seasons. But he’s the best FA pitcher out there, and if the Phillies want to sign him, they will have to pony up the money. But looking at his track record, I wouldn’t be shocked at all if this contract blew up in the Phillies face. I remember throwing caution on Yu Darvish, the Cubs gave him the money, and in 1.5 seasons, he has 0.4 WAR.

          1. Darvish and Cole are not comparable. Cole is younger when he hits FA and he is just the better pitcher whether you agree with it or not. And again, WAR is not a stat to measure an players overall abilities — WAR definition is not hard to understand.

            1. 24fWAR pitcher in 177 MLB Games Started is not something to sneeze at.
              Max Scherzer first 117 MLB GS he was at a 19fWAR or thereabouts pitcher.

            2. @romus – i hope you just don’t spit numbers just to look baseball credible because what you just posted is irrelevant. nobody is saying that Darvish (if he’s the 24fWAR) is a bad player.

              Also, I hope people need to start using stat like WAR to where it is intended. WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement – it is very self explanatory and the definition itself said that it is meant to measure a player’s total contributions to their team and not meant to be a perfectly precise indicator of a player’s contribution, but rather an estimate of their value to date. Any use of WAR outside of its definition is irrelevant.

    2. I’m in on Gerrit Cole this winter. However, there aren’t enough FA arms to restock this pitching staff. 2019 is over. Sell! Hoskins may not be Freeman or Rizzo, but he’s young and still inexpensive. And the fact that the Phillies were discussing Goldy with Arizona last year tells me that Rhys’ name isn’t chiseled into the team’s future plans. Matt Boyd is a compelling target. Besides, things may need to be shaken up here in Shangri La, including the manager and/or his lieutenants. This has become an embarrassment. Klentak missed an important detail – a pitching staff. And the relievers on the IL wouldn’t aren’t good enough to offset the in-game batting practice we’re watching from day to day.

      1. If the Phillies were discussing Goldy, they dodged a bullet since Goldschmidt has rapidly declined. He’s 31 and he went from all-star to replacement level in 1 year.

  33. The bats are OK. 4-6 runs should be enough to win any games. I blame the pitching for the Phillies under performing.

    Can someone give me a good reason why Chris Young is still around?

  34. Organizational philosophy has to change and that starts at the top with ownership. This organization has never tried finding value in the margins as much as I can’t stand the braves they understand how to build sustainable success. Look at the way the Braves, Yankees, and smart organizations develop a foothold in the international market. They build relationships and invest while the Phillies have never treated it as more than an afterthought. When Middleton talked about stupid money he was right it’s not stupid in terms of the dollars spent but rather how this organization uses the financial resources it does have.

    1. You do understand the Braves had a “foothold in the international market” by grossly cheating? Their infractions were so egregious their GM got banned for life, their director of international scouting got hit with a one year suspension, 13 of their Latin prospects were declared FA’s, and the team got banned from signing any J2 kids for more than 10 thousand dollars for three years.
      Atlanta was also accused of defrauding the rule 4 draft by buying draft picks gifts (cars and trucks) in lieu of higher signing bonuses.
      Now … if you want to argue that cheating pays in MLB, that’s a whole other topic.

      1. Yes fully aware of what the Braves did and what most successful teams are still doing. Outright cheating the system or at best skirting the lines of acceptable behavior and guess what it works as fans out criticizing teams that are loose with what essentially are unfair rules in the first place does nothing but continue to provide cover for inept ownership.

        1. I’m not trying to provide cover for Phillies ownership. I have no problem with your description of the NYY as a smart organization that has developed a foothold in the international market. I would just differentiate between a smart organization and a corrupt organization.
          Like i said above, if you want to argue that a team that gets ahead by cheating is a smart organization … have at it. I would just counter by saying if the Braves were that “smart” they wouldn’t have been caught.

  35. “smart organizations develop a foothold in the international market”…..:..but the bottom line there is, a new head guy with a different strategic plan, and .that also means relieving Sal A. of his duties…he runs the international portion of the org for awhile now..

  36. We miss Cutch and need a productive 3B but 6 runs should be enough. We have had BP issues, however SP has been an issue since the last trade deadline. We have a #1, a 4, 2 5’s and a BP Pitcher mixes with AAAA candidates. We need a #2 and a #3. Maybe that’s Howard or Medina or someone but certainly not next year. Very disappointed.

    1. matt13…bullpen issues…injuries…..Hunter/Robertson/Arano/Seranthony and Neshek. Therein lies the bullpen woes.
      Hammer and Garcia probably needed a min. of another year n the minors.
      Nicasio and Alvarez would be better with the top FA healthy.
      Morgan is a revelation this year, so that is one silver lining.

    2. Do you know how hard it is to get a 3, let alone a 2? Those guys don’t grow on trees. Personally, I consider Eflin a 3 (he’s still on track for 3-4 WAR) and if he hit the open market, he would easily get $18M per year.

      We need Medina to step up and get promoted to Lehigh so that he can audition in ST next year.

      1. Medina…like to see him get a head start on next season, and come in mid-to- later part of August thru September…..after he gets some Triple A time.
        Already on the 40 so no big deal on that issue.

  37. the klentak plan for 2019 is pretty clear. he improved the defense, the hitting and the bull pen ( sabotaged by injuries, unfortunately ) and i give him a lot of credit for that. but he bet on the development of pivetta, velasquez, eckoff, eflin, irvin, etc. it is wager he has lost.

    still half a season to play and i hope i am wrong but it doesn t look like a playoff spot is achievable with the starting pitching on hand.

    i would not trade our key prospects for an upgrade at this point but rather start planning on how to improve for 2020.

    1. Klentak mistake or simply a matter of the manager and pitching coach failing to develop young talent?

  38. The way I see it, my fear is coming true. The Phillies went through the rebuilding stage, but they were out built, by the Braves and dodgers. They are more on par with the nats than the braves. The braves have the utleys, the Howard’s, and the jimmy rollins… this young braves team is going to be scary for a long time. The Phillies better be really smart about their next moves… which is to resist selling the prospects for a miracle shot at the playoffs. They need to roll the dice with Medina, Howard, Bohm, Moniak, Haselely and sttot to mix with kingery, Harper, Hoskins, and Realmuto. It’s going to take Patience that stupid money doesn’t have. You can fill in with FA, but if their own young crop of prospects don’t pan out… might as well restart the rebuild. No way will they catch the braves. The Phils have the best pitcher of the bunch in nola…. and that’s about it. Right now … the Phillies are the 2007-2009 Mets vs the 2007-2009 Phillies … which really sucks if you recall

    1. Klentak did a great job over the winter in acquiring position players. He did a good job building a bullpen, though injuries upset that apple cart.

      What he did not do is acquire one or two of the several starting pitchers available. The plan for starting pitching seemed to be built on hope. Hope that VV, Pivetta and some others would develop. Well, they haven’t. And it’s time to move on from them and acquire starting pitching in the off season.

      I’ve been a Rhys Hoskins fan since I first saw him play for Clearwater, but I would not be opposed to trading him if he is part of a package needed to get a solid starter.

      1. Posted a similar idea above, Frank. Jim once mentioned/hinted that Hoskins might not be locked in as a building block here. He alone might not be enough to acquire a TOR but he has a near-elite plate approach which may have been impacted by the current batting coach/org philosophy. He and two good prospects may get one depending on the TOR’s contract status. Again, Detroit’s Boyd is an intriguing yet non-established pitcher who may be worth the price. Hoskins doesn’t play a premium position but poses as a valuable power bat to DH for an AL club.

  39. I also question the manager and coaching staff.

    Someone here, and i apologize for forgetting who, did a great comparison a week or so ago of players before, during and after their Phillies stints under Kapler. Guys like Carlo Santana going from all-stars to duds and back to all-stars.

    Now we see a pitching staff giving up 150 home runs in 87 games and a pitching coach having guys throw fast balls high in the zone so if they miss their spots it’s lights out, as happened to Efflin last night. And Kap responds by talking about making adjustments.

    Maybe the adjustment needed is guys who can judge talent and character and natural abilities and not mess with them like they apparently did with Moniak before they got smart and let him go back to doing what made him attractive to them in the first place. Instead, we have people making adjustments based on Statcast.

    We don’t need to go back to the days of John J. McGraw, but we do need better “baseball people,” it appears to my untrained eye.

    1. That was me, and that’s the issue here, I would NOT give up on Herrera, Franco, VV, or Pivetta. I would provide them a quality manager and pitching coach with a rationale and achievable approach to player development.

  40. I didn’t hear the interview, but Jayson Stark was on the 97.5 The Fanatic this week and said he wouldn’t be surprised to see Anthony Rendon playing 3B for the Phillies next season.
    Jayson is very clued in on all things Phillies, and I think Rendon is a helluva player … but … unless they’re planning to use Alec Bohm to acquire an elite arm, this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
    I just don’t see the Phillies trading Bohm (or Hoskins for that matter) because the club likes/loves to market their homegrown talent. They’re still marketing Rollins/Utley/Howard in 2019 even though they’re all retired.

    Here’s the story:
    https://thatballsouttahere.com/2019/07/01/phillies-trade-rumor-maikel-franco-era/

    1. Hinkie, the Rendon angle from Stark (if true at all) might (and I only mean ‘might’) explain why Bohm is getting reps now at 1b. Who knows but anything is possible. Klentak is desperate to redeem his tenure as GM and any future considerations as an MLB exec.

    2. Rendon signed by the Phillies makes absolutely no sense. Yes, Rendon is a stud, but he’s already 29, and you figure he”s going to get seriously paid, to the tune of 6 years, $160M+. We have Bohm who will make a fraction of that by summer 2020.

      Unless Bohm is getting moved off 3B (which I’m not hearing), I don’t believe this story at all.

  41. Matt Gelb posted an interesting tweet this morning. He said that the Phillies had identified trends in particular counts where home runs became a problem. Then….they proceeded to give up 8 HRs and 21 runs over the past 2 nights. Now the problem is being addressed by the higher ups. Stay tuned….

    1. ….this development also screams what we’ve already concluded – these pitchers (all but Nola) simply aren’t good enough.

  42. Guru, I agree, they hard hard to get. But, you therefore need a plan. If you don’t drat one high, you need tremendous luck with a Medina and/or Howard, who I need to see dominate at AS first, or you need to trade for one or use FA. Being hard to get doesn’t mean we don’t need them to win. If we are to ever be a WS contender again, we need to acquire a 2 and a 3. Watching Eflin last night does not give me a lot of hope there.

  43. 8mark, one very noticeable trend is making bad pitches. Up in the zone, hanging pitches, it is not really good pitches getting hit out. I am not crazy about the change in PCs but most of the blame is directly on the Pitchers and the GM who decided we dod not need better choices.

  44. Are the Phillies seriously starting Velasquez against deGrom tonight? Feels like a loss.

    1. Seems like a drubbing. The Mets with all their issues may be licking their chops to get well against a pitcher who’s spent the last 4 years trying to prove what he’s not. And sadly, the Phillies still have no other options at their disposal after those 4 years.

  45. Before going hog wild over Matthew Boyd, MLBTR posted a good piece today on the 28 year old southpaw with 3.5 years of remaining control. While he’s 4th among major league SP’s in K/BB rate, his propensity to give up the long ball lately has been alarming if there’s any inkling of him pitching at CBP. Klentak would also probably be squirming at the “over the top” return which Detroit is asking as well.

  46. May 30….33-23
    July 4th….45-42
    31 games….12-19.
    Kapler needs to reverse this trend……I cannot see Middleton having the patience very much longer if this does not turn around soon.

  47. If Middleton could/would be able to hire coaches/ scouts that get results like the good small market teams do,Braves,Tampa Bay and some others that would be a good start.

    What is hurting this team is they are not producing star players like the strong organizations do.What some of the small market teams can accomplish,with their limited $$ is amazing!

    If you have to rely on high dollar free agent signing for most of the starting nine AND your pitching starters,you will run out of money before you have a complete,competitive team.

    Plus the front office needs to be better in bargain shopping,finding and signing players that are ready to be better than they were in the past..like Charlie Morton…

    THEN you need the right manager and coaches on the big league team to get results!

    I would FIRST fire the manager and hopefully hire someone that can make a difference with what we already have on the 25 man roster.

    Until then,I will wistfully keep an eye on how the Braves,Devil Rays,Red Sox,Dodgers and the Yankees manage to produce star players.

    1. When it come to Middleton.
      i am sure when he reaches the point of no return…. which who knows could be in October, even if the team finishes in 3rd or 4th place in the East, .he will get MacPhail going, on finding replacements for either or both the GM and manager.
      I would hope if this trend continues after the all-star break, then might as well cut bait and begin the process or have interim people until the off-season, and then look for a new manager or a new GM or both.

      1. A lot of smart people on this site are sounding close to mutiny. Not a good sign for Kap and/or Klentak.

        If Middleton does decide to assert himself this off-season, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s fire Kapler and tell Klentak to pull off another off-season of getting top players, but this time pitchers. He might also want to inveigh on the personality/philosophy of the next manager. Then Klentak would have 2020 to produce or…

        1. Middleton is typically incommunicado until something big happens. Therefore he’s hard to read. My impression of him is that while he may raise his voice behind closed doors, he gives his people rope long enough to tie themselves up and dangle until he faces his own humiliation. Then it’s time for action. Like this homerun fiasco. The timing of the Phillies current swoon couldn’t be worse for Klentak. He will be desperate to make lemonade out of the bad lemons he’s picked, so to speak, and before the end of the season when his status as either lame duck in 2020 or renewed confidence via a contract extension. I personally doubt seriously that he’ll enter next year as GM without a contract extension, meaning the alternative is just as likely. Kapler is tied to Klentak. I don’t think Middleton distinguishes between the two. Gabe is Matt’s guy. I don’t see the probability that Kapler is kept on while his coaching staff gets pink slips. He picked them, he defends them, and so he is held accountable for them.

          My prediction – I have no idea what will ultimately transpire. But these things have a way of suspending the inevitable until the off season. Klentak endorsed Gabe and his staff just 2 weeks ago. He’d look pretty silly to go back on his word until October at the earliest. Which means, if anyone got let go, it would be Klentak first. And that’s unlikely until the postseason.

          Let’s hope for lemonade in the meantime.

          1. Right now the Mets are 6 games behind the Phillies, who are 6 1/2 behind the Braves.
            If the Phillies fall behind the Mets at the start of August….IMO, Middleton will assert his power and :suggest’ to MacPhail to have other subordinates relieved of their duties.
            The public dissatisfaction by the fans and media will be overwhelming if the Phillies fall into 4th place.

  48. I would fire MacPhail too,and hire someone from one of those organizations.Time to start fresh,what has MacPhail done or accomplished since he’s been here?

    The spread between the Braves and the Phillies is far more than 5 games,the Braves are stacked,the Phillies had to pay a lot of money for Harper,how many Brave players are as good or better than Harper?

  49. What concerns me most about Gabe is his excuse making for players. Eflin’s 13 pitches to Acuna leading off the 1st inning supposedly contributed to his losing gas early? Really? Yeah, maybe by the 5th or 6th inning but not the 2nd or 3rd. That’s bogus. Conversely, Kapler lauded Knapp in a game last season when he led off (why Knapp was leading off in the first place is another topic for discussion). Knapp K’d but not before working a similar AB as Acuna last night. Gabe said it was the most important AB of the game.

    Which only feeds the current “3 probable outcomes” philosophy so affectionately embraced by so many throughout MLB. Bases on balls, strikeouts and homeruns are the ultimate end from both sides of the diamond. Everything else has now been rendered irrelevant. And it’s not because of analytics. It’s because of certain “smartest men in the room” who have interpreted it as such and for the time being have held the most influence. Until some other smart guy and his cronies decide to interpret and implement analytics differently. And then we can complain about that, if we’re still around.

    1. 8mark,

      Good post. I like your read on the smartest men in the room as opposed to it being the numbers themselves that are at fault.

    1. I’m not condoning Odubel’s behaviour, but he’s getting made out to be an example for domestic violence. Addison Russell’s case was bad, and from what I heard, Osuna’s case was so bad nobody wanted to leak any information about it.

      Anyways, Odubel accepted his punishment so we’ll see what happens during the offseason or ST if he’s still here.

      1. Guru – The girlfriend had choke bruises on her neck. That’s attempted murder in my book. Don’t even try to justify it!

        1. That’s NOT attempted murder. All I’m saying is that the other players I mentioned really did a number to their ladies. If you don’t believe me, google it.

        2. Not defending Herrera’s actions however she did not show signs of petechiae which is what would show up if she was being choked. Bruising could mean many different things but if she was being choked petechiae would be prevalent. I work in LE and see this (sadly) on a weekly basis. He has said all the right things and has accepted responsibility. I get if people don’t want to see him in a Phillies uniform ever again but personally, due to the way he has handled the situation, I would give him a second chance with no rope whatsoever.

          1. I too would give him a second chance but I don’t give third chances.

            If he’s back, he will have to fight for CF with Haseley. Herrera will not be handed anything.

  50. Thta’s exactly how Quinn should be used. Replace Bruce, steal a bag, and play defence. Give him a spot start here and there, he’s our 4th OF.

  51. It’s hard to put my finger on what ails this Phillies team. At times the starting pitching, bullpen, and offense have all been good … and bad. Getting all three aspects to perform well in the same game has been a rarity. Last night was one of those games, VV gave us a good start, the bullpen gave up 1 hit in 4 innings, and the offense came alive in the ninth inning.
    I, and many other fans, did not realize how important McCutchen was to this team. In 59 games he had 45 runs and 56 hits. When you add the hits and BB’s the number rises to 99 times he reached base, and his OBP is second to only Hoskins. In contrast, has anybody missed Herrera’s bat in the line up? He was counted on to be a major piece of the Phillies offense this year, and we got nothing out of him. A lot of people like to point a finger at Franco, but his .221/12 HR, 40 RBI line is pretty damn good for an 8 hole hitter, and he turned in another defensive gem last night. Kingery has arguably been the Phillies best player this year, but he’s no McCutchen. Nola has returned to form, and Jake will battle every time out, but the rest of the rotation seems to have hit a wall. In the bullpen, Neris has established himself as one of the best, and Hunter is a welcome addition. Garcia and Hammer are developing at the major league level. This bodes well for the Phillies for the future because a number of relievers will be moving on after this season.
    We need a starter who will battle every time out and give us a quality start. We need another arm in the bullpen who can spell Neris on occasion, and take some of the pressure off of the kids. Finally, we need the everyday players to play up to their expected numbers.

    1. Having a healthy Hunter and Robertson, at their best, would have solve many issues thru the first 87 games. But the Phillies were not the only team beset with injuries.

    2. WWM, you’re right, but though he got bombed last outing, hasn’t Eflin delivered a quality start more often than not this year – maybe more than any other Phillies pitcher? If he continues, however, and VV improves, and Arrieta is acceptable, and Nola continues to show he is back… that still leaves the team (even with all those “ifs”) at least one pitcher short.

  52. thinking of a former Phuture Phillie Carlos Carrasco, on his leukemia diagnosis, which i had been fearing since he went on the IL. Prayers out to CC.

    1. Yes…..prayers for him
      Hopefully it is not AML, but the CML/CLL form of leukemia, which with Gleevec treatment there is very good response..

  53. On the bright side, Hoskins, JTR and Harper have yet to go on an offensive tear. I’m expecting that to happen in the 2nd half of the season, perhaps soon. Segura has had a hot streak earlier and should recover his slash line to its norm. These core bats are proven historically. While the starting pitching remains an issue, at least we should see more runs in the days and weeks ahead.

  54. Mike, I agree with almost everything, but we need more production out of 3B. I hope that is Bohm but I don’t anticipate that next year.

    1. Matt, if Jayson Stark is onto something, then we might see Anthony Rendon down at the hot corner next season. Otherwise I don’t see why Bohm wouldn’t be there on opening day if he continues to steadily progress as he has this season. Franco may not be here on August 1, but certainly his days in red pinstripes are numbered. I’m not convinced the Phillies have pegged Bohm as their future 3b just yet. His bat will definitely find him a position somewhere. I personally think he should play 3b exclusively. I do think that top prospects should develop at one position to maximize their offensive skills. Time will tell….

      1. 8mark….”I do think that top prospects should develop at one position to maximize their offensive skills….”…I agree, that is why this fall I think Darick Hall will begin to see more extensive LF action….oh my bad….you said top prospects! 🙂

    2. Matt – I agree for next year, but for now Franco is 3rd on the team in HR’s and Rbi’s behind Harper and Hoskins. If Franco were included in a deadline deal we could get by with Kingery At 3B and Haseley and Quinn splitting time in CF.

  55. As much as I have been critical of Kapler lately, a tip of the cap for sound usage of the bullpen plus some aggressive baserunning last night as well. It was an all around solid win, Mets or not.

    1. Giving props where due is what makes criticism worth something.

      To be fair, I personally think the majority of fans give managers too much credit (whether for good or bad performance) which is part of the reason I play devil’s advocate so often in Gabe’s defense. I look at Joe Maddon, largely considered one of the best managers in the game, and with a team that on paper was considered a WS contender coming into the year. And yet the Cubs have the exact same record as the Phils and have gone 3-7 in their last 10. Sometimes good teams just under-perform, just like bad teams can over-perform. I can’t say for sure how much control a manager has over that performance, but it certainly doesn’t appear to be as much as a lot of people assume.

  56. I’m not knocking the trade with Seattle (I think it was good for both clubs), but I did warn a year ago it was far too soon to write off JP Crawford as a prospect.

    .

    In retrospect, Jerry DiPoto had himself a helluva winter. He not only picked up Crawford for a veteran SS he wanted out of his clubhouse, but he incredibly pawned off the back end of the Robinson Cano contract in what now looks like the “deal of the century”. Edwin Diaz (to my disbelief) has been an absolute mess. Meanwhile, Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn are two of the best prospects in baseball.

    1. Hinkie, very good points about the JP Crawford and Edwin Diaz trades. There seems to be a problem with the Phillies developing our younger prospects such as Crawford and Williams. Other teams seem to be able to unlock their potentials so why can’t the Phillies?

      1. There will be times where the prospects the Phillies trade away will blossom somewhere else. That is the nature of the game.

        As for why the Phillies can’t unlock potential, you’re talking about recently or in the past? The Phillies have had their share of home grown talent. Even now, you’re discounting Nola, Kingery, Hoskins.

        1. Nola, Kingery and Hoskins are the obvious exceptions for the current administration. There are players like Franco, Hererra(before suspension)Crawford and Williams that have regressed at the MLB level under the current aministration. There seems to have been a change in their philosophy in the minors so maybe they will transition better.

          1. So your point is that the Phillies should have all their prospects make it? You know that most prospects fail right?

      2. I think it more likely that Crawford was developed in the Phillies development system. And, then had difficulty adjusting to the major league level due to his own character and maturity. These flaws showed themselves in interactions with the coaching staff in Lehigh Valley. And carried over the next couple seasons into Philadelphia and included his team mates. Good for him that he is reaching his potential in the laid back northwest. He should be proud of being a second division regular.

  57. What if we had ponied up more prospects for Diaz and failed to pick up Bruce?! We would have 6-7 more losses. Duffy, Diekman and Todd Frazier at the deadline? Would that work?

    1. matt13….Diekman may be a possibility and will not cost much.
      KC is out of it now, so he may not cost much either.
      If he could harness his control it would be a real plus.

      1. I’m ok with small moves for bullpen rotation help that don’t cost valuable long term prospects, ( santos, Irvin, hall, Williams ) or a larger deal for a controllable arm that can help next yr.
        Have to figure we’re playing for wildcard this yr
        Hope to build toward
        Hoskins
        kingery/Hernandez
        Segura
        Brohn/ kingery
        McCutchen
        Haseley
        Harper
        JTR

        Bench
        Guilleon
        Listi
        Bruce
        Quinn

        Next yr

        Add putting all the resources into pitching in offseason

        1. No way…that is tooo much.
          Hall stays.
          I want to see those howitzers into the upper deck at CBP.

          1. I agree. I think he is on KC’s wish list. I think Hall will eventually be traded, but I hope for better than Diekman.

            On a side note, and of no particular importance to the above, did you know that before the recent waves of promotions, Hall was the only Phillies’ position player in full season ball to play just one position?

            1. I think you are correct.
              Hall probably will be moved at some point.
              As a first baseman only…..he will not move out Hoskins.
              For a guy, however, who is not even on the Phillies top 50 prospect list, as by the ‘experts’, I can see some GM intrigued with his power tool.
              His underlying power peripherals…ISO/SLG, and also total HRs/doubles ….are plus when compared to the almost 200 double A position players thru the three leagues…he is the top 10 with them….and the fact he is one of the yuongest player in those measuring categories.
              I’d hope Josh Bonifay would have had him do some LF time this season, but he may not get the chance.
              Almost all agree he is a great kid, and humble to boot.
              But I think he mat=y want a change of scenery with an opportunity with another org if it doe not look like it will happen in Philly.

    2. Diekman, for me, is near the top of my Phillies top trade targets. Even though they’ll get back some reinforcements (Hunter already, Roberton hopefully soon, Ser Ant’ny maybe in a month, Neshek ?), this club still needs a LHRP. Diekman is a guy Klentak should have signed in the winter. He’s available now. He’s cheap (~ 1 million dollars for the rest of the season) and has an affordable option (5.5 million) for 2020. He won’t cost very much (maybe a couple of mid tier prospects).

      Sounds like Klentak has his eye on Todd Frazier (as matt pointed out above). He’s another guy who can be a more consistent offensive contributor w/o costing the club too much.

      Obviously, Klentak needs to pick up a SP. Time will tell (how does the team play/where do they sit in the standings at the deadline) what direction he goes in this endeavor. Tanner Roarke and Jordan Lyles are a couple of rentals who may be affordable. I’d also look into Jason Vargas. He’s another guy who shouldn’t be too expensive. He’d fill their need for a LHSP. Vargas is to be paid ~3 million for the rest of this season and has an 8 million dollar option/2 million dollar buyout for 2020.

      1. Oh please no more Mets’ cast-offs…after Andrubel and Joey last year I have seen enough.

  58. Per comments above – I would be very surprised if Phils didn’t wind up with both Frazier from Mets and a reunion with Diekman. For giggles, I wouldn’t be overly surprised if Ian Kennedy from KC comes along with Diekman – in a combo salary dump and minimal expense in prospect capital going forward. Up until a game several days ago, Kennedy was among the most effective relievers in the AL – long relievers I am referring to. His biggest problem is he is a fly ball pitcher whose stats have markedly declined / improved in that area this year ?

  59. i was at the reading game tonight in richmond and bohm was not in the game or as far as i could see sitting directly behind it, present in the dugout.

    does anyone have any info about this?

    1. Nor was he listed in the box score as a bench player if he was being rested. Odd. I’m sure we’ll get an update tomorrow.

      1. He’s on the temporary inactive list. Getting ready for the Futures game. Nothing to worry about.

    2. Answered below, but he’s just on the temporary inactive list to get ready for the Futures game.

  60. Other than the fact that Jake Arrieta sucked again … something that stuck out to me (and it may be a little thing, but it may have made a difference):
    8th inning … two men on … nobody out. Brad Miler is batting and the first pitch is making a B-line for his lower leg. Miller skips out of the way for ball one. The smart play is to take one for the team. Load the bases with nobody out.
    Sometimes it’s the little things that win and lose games.

    1. I understand the reasoning, but you don’t typically wear one on your limbs. It’s too easy to break a bone as you get closer to your extremities. Utley was notorious for not getting out of the way, but even he’d skip away from balls at his legs (as well as ducking pitches at his head, obviously).

      Now if it’s near your hip/back/butt/upper arm/thigh, those you grimace and take one for the team. But sometimes it’s difficult to accurately judge where it’s going to be so you have to kind of guess. It doesn’t bother me that he didn’t risk that one. Better to lose that one opportunity than have another player go down with injury for weeks.

  61. Sounds like Arrieta was hinting at something bothering him from the postgame comments. He wouldn’t answer directly when asked if he’s playing through an injury. Simply, “overall I’m fine” and “we’ll see where I’m at in a couple days.” He hasn’t pitched well at all. He’s not doing anybody a favor by hiding an injury if that’s the case.

    1. The Ump certainly didn’t do the Phillies a favor by not ejecting Arrrieta when he hit yet another batter after both teams had been given a warning. The Mets manager maybe had a point by being outraged.

  62. I don’t get a pro like Arrieta making excuses, and it sure seemed that way when you hear his post game remarks. Talk about cryptic answers about his health! And his bunt attempt with 2 on and no out was terrible. Gabe should have pulled him after the inning’s second hit batter and let someone else face Neto.

      1. My son went to Washington for a game a couple weeks ago. He stopped at a liquor store and had on his Phillies gear. Shop owner said Arrieta and Hunter had been in earlier for thousands of $ for booze and they are big customers every time they are in town. Hmmmmm.

        1. DC is on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to taxing booze. Could be as simple as that. Of course Georgia is even lower. I’d be interested if they buy there, too.

    1. Gabe hasn’t developed the ability to know when the “Hook” should be employed. Obviously it is a short come in the analytical manual that he keeps by his side.

      1. Serious question, how would we KNOW if he did have that ability? We literally cannot know what would have happened in other scenarios. What if leaving Arrieta in was his best option? What if any other pitcher, or combination of pitchers, would have given up 8 runs there?

        And what if all those times people have bemoaned Gabe removing a pitcher BEFORE he ran into trouble was the exact moment they ran out of gas?

        It’s really easy to manage in hindsight. It’s tough to make the call in the moment. Especially when your bullpen has been hemorrhaging runs consistently.

        1. Right Dan, just start em and leave em. If you are going to get beat it doesn’t really matter does it.

          1. Overworking your bullpen is a concern. As is keeping the score manageable. Do you currently trust our bullpen to stop the bleeding? Do you trust them to go 5+ innings?

            And then there’s the issue of, “what’s the better option?” It’s all good and well not to like a certain action. But there’s no point complaining about it if you can’t put forth a better alternative. So, what would you have done?

            1. If you run a guy out there with a bone spur in his throwing arm that you have known about for several weeks you need to have a contingency plan pregame. If you are suggesting that the bullpen isn’t any better than a pitcher with a bad arm than you are correct, but the fact that relievers did enter the game suggests people were available and probably should have come sooner than later.

  63. With Arrieta likely needing surgery, this might be the injury that pushes the FO to forget this year and think beyond this year. There’s too much that needs to be fixed in order to make the playoffs. I wouldn’t trade limited assets unless it helped beyond this year. Not a playoff team.

    1. I’m on this same line of thinking. If they could identify & trade for a young up and coming pitcher, potentially a pitcher like Boyd, I’d sign off on that, as the best help towards the near future vs selling off even low level prospects for a Ramos type player … I’m good. I’d rather roll the dice on the prospects and that this years team just isn’t good enough to make any semblance of a true playoff march. I can’t justify it when so many players are playing under career Avgs, and/or hurt. I think we are going to see the Phils sell vs buy this year. Imo, that is the correct move. They have Nola, a streaky Eflin and not much else

    2. @Eric – I agree. I go back and forth in tweeter with a dude that gets mad for me not saying not to panic. Panic to me is when FO starts to over reach and emotions overcome common sense. Trying to go in a bidding WAR for a pitching Boyd is panic mode. Trading a top SP prospect for MadBum is panic mode.

      I think the offense is sufficient enough to score 3+ runs in most nights. Outside Nola, nobody in the rotation is really stepping up to the challenge. I’ve been in the position to keep the prospect equity particularly Adonis Medina and Spencer Howard since these 2 arms can come handy with the Phillies after one year of development.

      If I’m GM, I sell the veteran pen arms (Hunter, Robertson) and some of the young arms (Alvarez, Neris, Vinny, Morgan, Ranger, Rios) to whatever value they can salvage. I’ll move Pivetta as the close and just surround Nola with young arms to see who can stay or who should go. The rotation and bullpen will look like this.

      SP1 Nola
      SP2 Eflin
      SP3 delos Santos
      SP4 Parkinson (or Irivin)
      SP5 Rosso

      Bullpen: Hammer, Garcia, Davis***, Ramos, Singer***, Dyer and Pivetta (closer)

      IL: Arrieta, Eickhoff, Arano

      1. KuKo:
        “……SP2 Eflin
        SP3 delos Santos
        SP4 Parkinson (or Irivin)
        SP5 Rosso”
        …..that may get the Phillies a top ten draft pick for 2021.
        i’m in.

        1. @romus – what option does Klentak have? Nobody in the rotation but Nola is performing. I will not put Medina and Howard in the rotation yet.

          And Boyd? Is he really good pitcher or just having a good year?

          This team has too many holes that it is reasonable to think that they will not go deep in the playoffs in 2019. So the Phillies just need to be realistic. Move on with players that are not part of the long term plan and get the best player available in FA.

          So Klentak should:a) keep Medina and Howard; b) sign Gerrit Cole; and c) check another veteran SP like Cole Hamels. So next year, the rotation can look like:

          SP1 Nola
          SP2 Cole
          SP3 Eflin
          SP4 Medina
          SP5 Veteran SP (or Howard)

          Delos Santos, Parkinson and Rosso are placeholders in 2019 and not long term fit. I guess you don’t understand that for you to think —…..”that may get the Phillies a top ten draft pick for 2021. I’m in”

          1. KuKo:
            SP1 Nola
            SP2 Cole
            SP3 Eflin
            SP4 Medina
            SP5 Veteran SP (or Howard)
            …now we talkin’…I would also trade for Ray to slide in there at 4.
            I still think you need a lefty in the play-off rotation of three starters.

            1. I like Robbie Ray even though the stats doesn’t look good this year. It will all depend on how much ARI will ask for him.

              ARI is also within striking distance of the wild card so it Ray may not be available.

            2. I prefer to go after Ray in the off-season, since like you infer, the DBacks seem to be lingering after that last WC spot.

          2. Put Arrieta on the 60 day IL and get Damon Jones on the 40man roster and up here. I see little risk above what we’re getting from Eflin, Pivetta and Velasquez.

            1. I like that plan also.
              There is also Medina and lest we forget, the also regular shuttle bus call-ups of Irvin/DLS/Suarez

            2. Damon Jones!!! Wow!! No, Phillies better keep Damon Jones in the high minors and see if his jump in 2019 is for real. Before 2019, Damon Jones is a BB machine and with bullpen arm written all over him. Even in his best year in 2019, Damon Jones BB/9 is not good.

              delos Santos might provide the same if not better results than Damon Jones. if Damon Jones has been a top prospect for 2-3 years now and a top 50 prospect in all MLB, then, sure why not.

            3. If DLS is the high water mark for our minor league stop gaps, then we are definitely in big trouble unless we acquire someone outside the organization.

  64. Hsin-Chieh Lin one of the better starts in the minors for the team. Short start so far but still,,

  65. I’m sure they’ll try to weather this, but unless any/all of Harper/Hoskins/Realmuto really catch fire and carry this team, (as Eric D and Tac 3 said above) Klentak might not want to waste any prospect capital at the trade deadline. He might even want to take offers on Tommy Hunter and Jose Alvarez.

    1. I’d add Hector Neris to that reliever’s seller list.
      He could bring back attractive assets.

        1. Personally, I’ve come to to accept that over the last 10 years, I do not look at relievers as core pieces.
          Every year is a new adventure with them, they run hot and cold, and for that matter, any team’s bullpen from year to year fluctuates in production
          Now Hector is a nice reliever, but entering his 31age season next season i envision a decline in his efficiency and production.
          I’d like him to get back tot eh 2017 Hector….but doubt that happens again.
          This year has been good for him so far, that is one reason why i would sell

          1. I tend to agree with you Romus. Hector is most ideal as the 8th inning guy but as closer I still hold my breath. The bullpen should be comprised of a reliable cast. But one man needs to be closer. He’s currently not on this roster. But there isn’t enough in the cupboard for Klentak to acquire a closer, a #2 and bench depth.

            Klentak has been quite a dichotomy. Alas Jay Bruce today, another example of acquiring a key bat. But we all sit back as this pitching staff (sans Nola) just wilts and withers away as the season gets away.

            1. i agree also that Neris is better fit for 7th or 8th inning guy. I can see Neris choking up in high pressure situations.

          2. Romus, I totally agree. I was at a Reading Phils game about 4-5 years ago and a now old school baseball guy answered a bunch of questions I had about relief pitchers. He told me that no team should ever make decisions on relief pitchers that depend on multiple years of consistent success. #1 – never sign a relief pitcher beyond two years. #2 – when you sign one for two years, automatically assume one year to be either lost to injury or poor performance. #3 – never trade a good prospect for any relief pitcher ever. His philosophy was basically that 50% success is the best you’ll ever see on relief pitchers. He also said stay away from acquiring relief pitchers past 31 as that 50% success rates drop. He also said stay away from trading for young relief pitchers with less than two full years of success as flash in the pan performance is often likely. He said what this leaves you with is a very precious few relief pitchers you should ever acquire with a likelihood of success. His message, build your bullpen internally, not externally, maybe adding one arm if and when necessary.

            Looking at where the Phils have been the last few years, I believe this philosophy isn’t far off.

            1. Buddy……that must have been Walter Johnson…older guy , around mid-70s, very lithe and energetic, if the same guy, goes to loads of Reading games…I talked to him on the 4th. I use him as my scout for Reading.
              he has many different ideas….his latest ,Phillies need to put more scouts/cross checkers in the southeast section of the US…and less in the upper north western part.
              Sometimes I have to chuckle
              We had a little debate over Hall’s projection.
              But that theory on relievers is probably correct.
              In the old days, many threw ‘junk’ vs ‘heat’…so they kind of lasted awhile, but they also were washed up starters so they knew how to pitch.

              The trend now, or for the last decade or so, is develop relievers in the farm throwing heat right away with a good breaking pitch, normally a slider.

          3. Romus – Trading Neris would be a mistake. We’re losing Neshek, Nicasio, Alvarez, and Hunter. after this year, and Arano won’t be back. As we’ve seen, acquiring relievers in the offseason is a crap shoot. Next year Neris, Robertson, Morgan, Garcia, and Hammer will be the bullpen core, and Klentak will sign/trade for two more. Rios, Ramos, and Austin Davis are available, but Ramos might be out of options. As we’ve seen this year, both the Phillies and Ironpigs will need a fully staffed bullpen.

            1. … and another unknown is where Velasquez will be pitching next year. Will he be in the rotation, the bullpen, or another City?

            2. Neris will be 31.
              Just do not see him getting better as he ages.
              Plus he throws a splitter…their arms age faster.
              IMO, he is at his highest value this year.

    2. At this point, the way the season has unfolded, I’d change course on my preseason expectations, and would be happy with:

      A serious attempt at trading for Matt Boyd. A line exists, and for me, it starts at Bohm & Howard. The rest has to be on the table. If it costs that much, then I understand to pass at that point. Saying no to that ask will mean their scouts will need to produce for them to close their SP gap, either by having desirable prospects or ones that produce at a high level in the mlb.

      Also, a run at grienke, if the D-backs make him available, my guess is that they will if they continue to hover were they are at, they would gladly have Middleton pay the majority of his remaining deal. I have a feeling Cole will be hard to sign this offseason, so klentak could really reshape this SR pretty quickly for 2020

      Nola
      Boyd
      Efflin
      Arrietta

    3. If Arrieta was mildly effective, they might try to weather it. But he’s been brutal the last few starts and he’s hurting the team. He’s going to need the surgery anyways so the Phillies need to make sure that he’s 100% come spring training. If it means having the surgery now, so be it.

      1. Agreed. Were he giving us reliable innings and a chance to win games, I’d consider holding off on surgery. But I’m not convinced he’s any better than Velasquez/Irvin/DLS currently. Do the surgery, prepare for next season, and try to salvage some of that contract’s value.

  66. If Bohm and Howard are off the table, I don’t think there is enough for Boyd and I don’t trade either one. I don’t give up on a WC run, and I am not giving up on the division, and I think we can add pieces and keep Bohm, Howard, Medina and Haseley. Notwithstanding the histrionics of Frazier/Arrieta, I still think Duffy, Diekman and Frazier fit without being too costly and would help. Greinke is interesting because of the $, and our ability to take it on. Would he wilt under the pressure here? What is he like in the clubhouse? Two misses that we should have been smart enough to get right, Cole Hamels ERA under 3, was worth taking a chance on last year and Charlie Morton with 9 wins. Not a smart bet on Klentak’s part counting on our SP.

    1. I’m still wondering about Morton. There’s not a single chance no team was willing to outbid the Rays on that one. He must have wanted to play there. It’s possible he would have signed with the Phils had they offered him similar money and they passed, but that strikes me as unlikely, too.

      Is it possible Morton doesn’t want to play for Philly because of something he experienced in his short time here?

    2. You’re right, if Bohm and Howard are off the table, you’re not going to get any top pitcher, let alone Boyd. I’ve said this too many times, you have to give talent to get talent. Medina is decent, but he’s not going to be the center piece in any deal for a good starting pitcher.

      1. Medina is a top 100 prospect. He absolutely could be the center piece of a deal for a good starting pitcher.

        It’s just a matter of do we have enough OTHER pieces that we’re willing to give up.

        1. Medina may have been top 100 when the season started, but when the midseason rankings come out, you will likely see that he’s off the list. Not only that, he was in the 70s range. For a top pitcher, somebody is going to pony up a top 50 prospect.

          1. I’ll agree that Bohm needs to be the center piece for an ace, but you initially said a good pitcher. Medina as a center piece could definitely fetch us someone like Wheeler or Gray. Probably Greinke if the Dbacks sell, and maybe Minor or Lynn.

            Those pitchers aren’t small upgrades for us.

            1. It depends. The more control the team has over a pitcher, the more you will have to pay up. But if you’re not looking for an elite pitcher, then yes, Medina could headline it, but I doubt it. A lot of teams will be able to beat out Medina for a pitcher.

  67. Assume Arrieta will have the bone spurs removed and be done for the season.
    Trying to work thru would involve physical therapy and/or anti-inflammatory meds or maybe he could have an injection right into the spur.
    Spurs are not reduced without going in there, so, basically symptom management is the non-surgical option.

  68. If Eflin and Pivetta cannot turn the corner this season, the Phillies will not go far more so make the playoffs.

    The WAR people will probably love Matthew Boyd because of his positive WAR. Boyd will cost 2-3 Top 10s easy. There’s nothing in Boyd that gives me comfort that he is the game changer for this team. Boyd can possibly give the Phillies extra 2-3 games over a replacement like delos Santos and that may not be good enough even for the Wild Card.

    1. Boyd is in line for a 5 WAR season. But with him, he’s not a FA until 2023. So you’re also trading for his 3 years of control. He’s going to command a major haul if his performance continues.

      1. WAR means nothing especially if you don’t know how to use this stat. WAR is an “as of” stat and it is not designed to be predictive of future performance. Please look at the WAR definition before using this stat as a basis of your argument.

        I watched Boyd in MLB.com and I did not see anything special from him. His stuff will not blow you off.

        I’m not sure if Boyd is a good pitcher or he is just having a good year. If he is just having a good year and revert back to his current career averages, Klentak will have a another back end starter occupying a roster spot.

        I hope you really see Matthew Boyd pitch rather than just go to baseballreference.com and look for a certain stat called WAR.

        1. WAR is a comparison tool. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem. I’m not the only person that uses WAR. Baseball reference uses it, and ESPN uses it a lot.

          And just because Boyd’s stuff doesn’t blow you away, it doesn’t mean he cannot have a good or fluke season. WAR will tell you that. And just because he has a high WAR for this season, it doesn’t mean he’s a good pitcher. It just means he’s having a good year. If he has multiple good WAR seasons, maybe then you can imply that he’s a good pitcher. Get it? I’m not repeating this again.

          1. that’s exactly my point. Is Boyd a good pitcher or he is just having a good year.

            I know a lot of people of who use WAR. but they use WAR in their analysis properly because they understand what WAR is designed for.

            1. First of all, when I’m saying he’s in line for a 5 WAR season, I’m just telling it like it is. I’m not saying he’s elite. All I’m saying is that pitcher is having a good year. So it’s up to the trading team to decide whether or not this is a start of something good or a fluke. Either way, a pitcher having a hot season is going to command more in trade value. Somebody is going to pay for his future production.

  69. I agree with the comments here that trading prospects to go in on this season would be a huge mistake. But let’s face reality – if Middleton or McFail doesn’t tell Klentak to stand down, he WILL be making moves to improve the Phils playoff odds.

    Let’s keep in mind Mr Middleton’s passion to sign Harper (and acquire others) wasn’t about a PR bump, it was about his desire to WIN. Klentak May or may not be a great GM, but I assure you he is smart enough to realize a) how badly his owner wants to win, and b) how well he realizes that if he gets fired from this job, he’s not likely to get another GM chance anytime soon. Doubling down on that, I bet that Gabe realizes the same two things and his managerial approach will be focused on win now.

    As bad as things look right now, thus team is right in the heart of the wildcard race and Klentak and Kapler will not be writing this season off anytime soon, and not likely before 7/31.

  70. Concerning Arrieta’s medical issue…. two of the Mets’ star pitchers, Steven Matz and Noah Syndergaard have the same issue and working thru it..

    1. Thor’s results against the Phils didn’t look too good this series as he worked through the same issue, but does it make a difference in the amount of leeway given him that he was “working through it” throwing 97mph FB while Arrieta maybe is hitting 92mph? It would for me! Arrieta wasn’t approaching elite status even without the bone spurs….. perhaps it is better for his future confidence…. and his future value for him to go on the IL.

      1. if he can have the surgery in October and be ready for spring training…then I think he will do that.
        And pitch thru the next 2/3 months, with injections or anti-inflammatory meds.
        I really do think the bone spur affects the ability to command his pitches.
        Straight on velo on FBs is probably not an issue….throwing pitches involving twisting or torquing the wrist may be an issue with command.

    1. During the game they said that with the All Star break he will rest and then get it re-evaluated. They also said he had this injury before with the O’s and that he tried to pitch through it but by August ended up going under the knife. With the Phils trying to stay in the race for the division, maybe they hope the rest for a few days and then try him for a game or two and see how it goes? If they get too far behind just shut him down and hope he can be better next year.

      1. Daniel…the way I see it…Nola starts on Friday vs the Nats….Arrieta , because of the meds or injections for the spur, gets kicked back to 5th in the rotation and will start again on July 16 vs the Dodgers at CBP….he will have had 10 days rest and somewhat healing by then, though spurs do not go away, but maybe it will make it easier for him.
        Anyway if I was managing that is what I would do.
        .

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