109 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 27 June 2011

    1. Singleton has a .983 OPS for June…comments about his demise as an elite prospect seem profoundly overblown at this point.

  1. It looks like May supplied Lakeland with base runners tonight, but they still couldn’t hit him. He is good even on an off night. That is encouraging. The Thresher hitters did what the Phils should consider — picking one inning in which to get all their hits. It worked.
    The Reading bullpen did nice work backing up Ramirez. What is Savery doing pitching? Does this mean they are short-handed or they have given up on his ever hitting at the higher level? Switching back and forth is not helpful for him. Friend looks to be settling in better.
    I am happy for the loyal Iron Pig fans. They are being rewarded with a good team that seems never to be out of a game. I hope Aumont can mkae the adjustment to the different league. He seems to have trouble with transitions.
    What about those crosscutter bats! Six runs in the ninth! Buchanan has been in a real slump. Pirela has been a hit machine for the other side. I thought Gomez would do better than he has shown.

  2. Valle walks!!! Leading off an inning so it was not an intentional walk Plus he was 2/3 with a double, 2RBI and a run scored.

    Savery pinch hits and pitches in the same game!!! 2 innings. I guess all the relievers from Reading are now in Lehigh Valley, because so many pitchers from Lehigh Valley are now with the Phillies (Worley, Bastardo, Herndon, Stutes, Perez)… or the Yankees (Gordon). But actually it makes sense from his manager’s point of view. In AA Savery is a better pitcher than he is a hitter. What is in his future?

    1. I’m surprised it was 2 innings. This leads me to believe he has been keeping his arm in pitching shape. I’m surprised it was not in extra innings. This leads me to believe this move back to pitching was planned.

      1. I believe Chuck LaMar has been quoted saying that he’s been continuing to throw on the side and would be expected to do some pitching this year.

  3. Savery pitches the 7th and 8th. If he’s a bench bat and a fifth OF/backup 1B and stretched out to be your mop-up/12th pitcher, that’s a versatile player. It’ll be interesting to see if he gets more innings. And is there a modern model for this?

  4. Does anyone know any info on the SS Miramontes in Williamsport? I assumed he was a Latin American prospect, but he’s a 22 year old (almost 23) born in San Diego without a college affiliation (per MiLB)…

      1. He’s got skills and has won at every level. He played this year for Faulkner University this year making it to the NAIA World Series this year.

    1. I’m sorry about the first reply, I was multitasking. KJ Miramontes played SS @ Faulkner University in 2011 making to the NAIA World Series. He attended the same high school that produced Adrian Gonzalez. He’s a heady player with solid defensive skills and is comfortable hitting with wood. I look forward to seeing him excel when he gets the chance. Last nights 1-2 and RBI was a decent pro debut.

  5. I’m suprised more guys aren’t both pitchers and hitters. It’s always been a source of intrigue to me: why can’t most pitchers hit? When I played, the best players pitched really well and could really hit.

    1. I think it’s probably just a matter of the time necessary to succeed at levels of increasing competition. Hours pitchers spend working on their mechanics are hours position players spend in the cage honing their swing, pitch recognition, etc, etc. The natural athleticism which allows the best players in lower levels to hit and pitch is not quite enough once you move up and everyone was the best of the best at lower levels. Unless you are Cliff Lee.

      1. I dont see a problem with letting a player pitch and play a position like college at the lower levels… say short season and even maybe Low-A. If youre dealing with an athlete like Bubba Starling or a Casey Kelly you have the ability to see what their future is on the field and not just in a scouts eye. If this approach was taken with James Looney he may be a stud left handed pitcher right now.

    2. It is really a matter of skill/talent level. A very small percentage of players have major league level talent/skill to hit major league pitching. Similarly, a very small percentage of pitchers have the skill to get major league hitters out. The overlap of the two is even much smaller.

  6. Amaro got his first hit and first 2 RBIs. Collier 3 – 4 from the 3 hole and getting his 23rd SB. Mattair’s hit in 3 straight but three does not a trend make. Singleton is fire cracker hot. I wouldn’t even walk by him because he’ll singe the hair off your arm. Okay, I agree that Valle getting his 3rd BB of the season is big… very big. That’s the good news. Buchanan having his 4th straight lousy outing. He’s at 93 IP and might be time to give him a rest. Skip him next time and give Shreve the start. Bring him back after that. CLW getting 14 hits and 3 BBs and scoring only 4 runs which all came in one inning. That’s the bad news. Savery going back to pitching for at least the 2nd time this season. This is more of a shock than good news or bad news.

    How about a little love for Gosewisch? Tuffy’s been holding his own with the bat. He’s tough to strike out. He has a .426 slugging percentage with 7 dingers. He’s a great receiver with ony 1 E and 3 PBs all season. He throws out 36% of the runners trying to steal. During Spring Training I remember some of the Philly pitchers saying they liked to throw to him. He might top out as a backup in the majors but his catching skills in combination with being a tough out (no pun intended) and a bit of power makes him a very nice backup. I know… he’s 28 but we always say that catchers get a break on the age side because of all the skills a catcher needs to develop. I remember Schwim talking about him in one game where he gave up a big 3 Run HR. Schwim said he shook Tuffy off and the ball was deposited in the stands. He said that he should have just done what Tuffy said.

    1. I thought Tuffy Gosewisch was a great pick when the Phillies drafted him in 2005 (relatively speaking of course). Catcher is a position where personality might be the most important, and he had a great baseball personality. Even though he is older he still has a chance to contribute at the MLB level considering the position he plays. It has really been nice to seem him finally develop some offensive consistency over the past 2 seasons.

      He is one of my favorite players in the minors…even if he isn’t an uber prospect.

        1. Agree. He’s earned a shot as the org’s third catcher. Then late him compete for Schneider’s job when it opens up. Maybe September is the time to give him a look-see in Philly, although Kratz’s bat may also be tempting.

      1. IMO, if he starts is in LHV in 2012, then he may be first call up in 2012 if and when Brian Scneider goes on the DL.

        1. Schnieder is gone after this season. Backup C will be an important position for the Phillies to fill. I think Kratz gets the Sept callup might be retained for 2012 if he performs well in very limited chances. Obviously Phillies will look for a vet major league C also.
          Tuffy, if he is willing to stay with the Phillies, likely moves up to AAA C and would be called on in case of injury in 2012. Or he can decide another organization gives him a better chance to make the show. I think his upside is exactly that, minor league emergency callup.

  7. I think it is a great move for Savery to keep pitching. His arm injuries were based on repetitive use. Maybe his arm is better suited to being an occasional bullpen arm. As a hitter he sure looks like a tweener to me. Not enough offense for 1B. Not enough speed to be a good outfielder. So his ceiling as a hitter might be Greg Dobbs. That is OK. And if he can pitch as a LOOGY as a bonus? Suddenly he is worthy of a 25-man roster spot. Even if his command is not good enough to be a LOOGY, he could still be the long man in the bullpen if he can go 2-3 innings.

    How many times have the Phillies used a pitcher as a pinch hitter so far this year? Much more than in previous years if I had to guess. There is just way too much specialization these days to not want to have the most flexible bench/pitching staff as possible.

  8. Do NOT hold me to this. This is off the top of my head, without doing any research or thinking about it for an extended period of time. And there is still 2+ months left in the season. But I think my top 10 right now looks like this:

    1. Singleton
    2. Cosart
    3. Valle
    4. Biddle
    5. May
    6. Collier
    7. Colvin
    8. Santana
    9. De Fratus
    10. Asche*

    * His move to 2B is a pretty big development, if he can play there defensively, because his bat will profile at an above average level there.

    Of course everyone will immediately ask about Galvis. I still don’t know what to do with him. So I’m leaving him right outside the top 10 for now.

    1. I’m not sold on Collier…at least not that high. He’s having a nice season but he lost a ton of development time last year.

      Still, a .750 OPS for a 20 year old in Lakewood is good but not fantastic. Wish he was doing it as a CF instead of LF right now though. However, I do understand that there is quite a logjam in that outfield.

      1. Look at his numbers in April, then look what he’s doing now. It was obvious he was shaking off the rust and adjusting to playing again.

        Well above average speed, a lock to stay in CF, very good approach at the plate. The last piece of the puzzle will be power. But coming back from a hand injury, the power will be the last thing to return, and it wasn’t even fully developed before he got hurt. I expect it will take him until next year, and even 2013, before he starts putting up nice power numbers. But I think the power is there. More importantly, his approach is already very solid.

        I was a big fan before the injury. I wanted to see how he recovered this year. So far, very good.

        1. I agree…I just want to see more is all. He was very exciting in his first year and even looked like the best of the Gose, Hewitt, Collier trio of picks but missing that year was huge to me. If he finishes the year like this, I completely agree on your bullish slotting of him.

          1. I agree we need to see more. But the power tool is there. As someone said it might not be till Reading that we see it. I might have Santana a little above him now, but those two are really starting to stand out as our best outfield prospects (not knowing where to put Singleton for the time being).

            I think it is way too early on Asche. His pedigree was such that he should be able to hit in the low minors. Not sure how his hit tool plays out at the upper levels of the system. And if he was not supposedly a great 3B, it is hard to imagine he will ever be more than average at 2B. I think he is there simply to get at bats since Martinez and Franco are better 3B prospects.

            This does not mean I am down on Asche. Just that he is nowhere near top 10 for me at the moment.

        2. I agree completely about Collier. I expect him to eventually start hitting for power and we might not see it until Reading 2013. Here is BA’s draft profile on him:

          “Collier was not selected to participate in the 2007 Area Code Games or the Aflac Classic, but he’s had a high profile nonetheless. He started to generate buzz during the local Connie Mack summer season as a teammate of Isaac Galloway and Aaron Hicks. Rave reviews from parents and youth coaches began to filter down to scouts, and Collier helped his cause with strong showings in two showcase events held at the MLB Urban Youth Academy in Compton. He continued gaining ground this spring, and then moved into first-round consideration when he took a Hicks 93 mph fastball deep during a tournament game in Fullerton. To make sure the 40-plus scouts in attendance were paying attention, Collier ripped two more hits.

          1. I agree completely about Collier. I expect him to eventually start hitting for power and we might not see it until Reading 2013. Here is BA’s draft profile on him:

            “Collier was not selected to participate in the 2007 Area Code Games or the Aflac Classic, but he’s had a high profile nonetheless. He started to generate buzz during the local Connie Mack summer season as a teammate of Isaac Galloway and Aaron Hicks. Rave reviews from parents and youth coaches began to filter down to scouts, and Collier helped his cause with strong showings in two showcase events held at the MLB Urban Youth Academy in Compton. He continued gaining ground this spring, and then moved into first-round consideration when he took a Hicks 93 mph fastball deep during a tournament game in Fullerton. To make sure the 40-plus scouts in attendance were paying attention, Collier ripped two more hits. Lefthanded all the way, Collier has an athletic and projectable 6-foot-2, 195-pound outfielder’s frame. His above-average speed makes him a threat as a baserunner and permits him to patrol center field for now. As he slows down and matures physically, he’ll play an outfield corner, and his average arm makes right field a possibility. Collier had a surgical procedure to improve blood flow to his heart, performed in May 2006, which may be a concern for some clubs, but he’s been medically cleared for two years and has had no problems. Collier’s hitting ability and solid all-around game had him moving up boards, possibly in the middle of the first round.

      2. Collier also has something like 23 steals on the year which should also be a factor. I have him back of top ten, maybe 8 or 9.

    2. I’m surprised that Cesar Hernandez didn’t sneak in there. He is basically the same age as Asche, playing the same position two levels higher (High A) and hitting .333 over his last 10 games. He does strike out too much for a singles hitter, but so does Asche (so far).

      1. I would replace Asche with Hernandez. Personally, I like to see how a hitter shakes out in the first year before putting him in top 10, unless he’s Utley, Singleton, or Burrell. Hernandez’s recent flourishing puts him in there for me. Otherwise a good list, although I like a reliever like DeFratus a bit outside the top 10. No clear picture yet that he will be a closer of Madson-like setup. Maybe Pettibone in there for DeFratus. I think PP has the top 15 down cold.

    3. Thanks for doing this, James, it makes for fun discussion. I agree with your top 3.

      I’m curious as to why Biddle is ahead of May. I recognize he is a lefty and two years younger while only one level behind. But he has had control issues just like May (4.9 BB/9) with a lower K/9 than May (8.1 K/9 – still quite good, but not like May’s 11.7 K/9). When May was at Biddle’s level two years ago (so comparing same age and level) they had a similar BB/9 and May again had a higher K/9 (11.1 K/9).

      I also think it is interesting that you were not willing to downgrade Singleton after two-plus months of sub-par performance, but you are willing to downgrade Colvin. Or perhaps you have not downgraded Colvin but rather the others have done so well that they have moved past him?

    4. Very surprised to see Biddle, DeFratus, and Asche that high, and May and Santana not higher and Galvis and Cesar not on the list. Your knowledge of these guys far exceeds mine so not arguing the point, but leads me to a question or two.

      Having DeFratus this high and knowing how you consider relief pitchers in rankings, I assume this means you project him as a closer someday at the MLB level?

      And having Valle that high seems hard to argue with, but there is alot of talk on here about his lack of BB’s, is that a concern for you at this point? What’s your view on that?

      1. A polished college bat, but raw grinder in the field. Visions of Utley with Asche? Personally I have Hernandez a lot higher myself, but sure to generate good discussion!

  9. Not sure how you could use him as both in a single game to save a roster spot. What happens if they need a LH loogy in the 6th? Do you use Savery as your guy or do you have to use someone else because you might need the LH bat in the 8th?

    Not sure its worth saving the extra 25-man roster spot if the other option is to carry 2 guys, one who is a better hitter/fielder and 1 who is a better pitcher.

    The Phillies have had 3 pinch-hitting appearances by pitchers this season, 1 by Hamels and 2 by Lee. Not sure 3 at-bats really justifies a roster spot for a guy like Savery.

    1. Well, you could theoretically go with a 6 man bench and an 11 man BP if you had him around. You could PH with him and then leave him in to pitch theoretically too.

      I dont see it happening but if he was good enough to be a LH bench bat AND pitch as a LOOGY, there is value there. I dont see him as good enough for either role personally but it’d be cool if he was.

    2. Thought it was more than three PH at bats by a pitcher. Not being in Philly I think I have seen 15 games on TV and probably caught all three.

      But the point of an extra pinch hitter still stands. A bench with 5 players typically has a couple (backup catcher, middle infield) of players there for their defense. With the Phillies that would mean that every pinch hit appearance by Schneider/Sardinha, Valdez, or even Martinez could be improved if that pinch hitter was a better offensive player like Savery might be.

      A manager gets more options. They can use Savery as a LOOGY. Or use him like last night for a couple of innings after a pinch hit appearance. The last man in the pen also pitches only a couple of times a week, so the days after he went multiple innings he could be available on the offensive bench all game.

      As for the 25-man roster spot. The main point is you get a 6th bench player and a 12th pitcher. With one guy not two. There is some value in that.

    3. If Savery improves enough as a hitter and pitcher then he could replace Perez/Romero/Zagurski as the second lefty out of the pen. But unlike the others, he can also pinch hit and play 1B or OF on occasion, and best of all can do both in one game.

      1. But how could we possibly make room for such a guy on our bench with the great Michael Martinez enscounced there?

        That “young” prospect is just pure gold!!!

      2. Nowheels has gotten almost agreeable. Someone said it before..Nowheels for comeback player of the year.

  10. I like your top 10 PP but I would debate the merits of Asche over Galvis. We’re talking about a 21 year old middle infielder in Rookie ball with a .750 OPS vs. a still 21 year old middle infielder at AA with a .728 OPS.

    1. Its a track record thing…Galvis could very well be having a flukish few months whereas Asche is coming in as a good hitting college bat. I think if Galvis keeps it up for the entire season, he might crack the top 10.

      I feel the same way about Collier. Its great that he’s crushing the ball since the beginning of May but I want more than 2 months of results before I pull out the annointing oil for him after missing an entire year to injury.

      1. The whole track record thing … I’m one of the people who goes on about sample size to the point of boredom, but …

        (1) with prospects – especially young ones – it is pretty common to see real breakthroughs, so we can (tentatively) be a little more confident that a half season of improved play from a young prospect is “real.”

        (2) I’ve harped on this a few times lately, but some stats stabilize a LOT faster than others. BB%, K%, HR for example. BA is on the other end of the spectrum, except to the extent that it is driven by reduced K%. Applying this to the two examples, Galvis of course has an increased HR% (and more doubles and a higher BABIP, which normally would be more suspect, except they are consistent with his visible physical changes). Collier’s improvement is driven mostly by improved BB and K performance. His BABIP is up somewhat too, but not to an unsustainable degree. Obviously we should have SOME concern about possible regresssion, but much less so (not to beat a defensively challenged first baseman) than, say, a BABIP driven dramatic increase in BA.

        But all that said, I don’t think there is much disagreement on these guys at this point. I think the consensus among the knowledgeable commenters on both guys is not that far off – somewhere between 6 and 15 for both guys.

        1. My top 15:

          1. Singleton
          2. Cosart
          3. May
          4. Biddle
          5. Valle
          6. Collier
          7. Santana
          8. Colvin
          9. Galvis
          10. Cesar Hernandez
          11. Petibone
          12. Aumont
          13. De Fratus

          And then … hmm, gets tough. I think there is a real drop off at that point. Asche is I guess in the mix. J Rod maybe? Cloyd?

          1. I would tend to agree with those 13 players in some order. I really like what Pointer and Franco are doing so far and would probably have them round out my top 15.

    2. I was thinking the same thing. Add in the premium of playing short and I think Galvis has the edge.

      I also think Julio Rodriguez, even with his bad start has put up numbers.

  11. It is notable that Collier got a couple of hits against Wang, who, you may recall, won a lot of games for the Yankess a couple years ago. He is on rehab, but still, this is interesting.

  12. The reason I ranked Asche were I did is his profile offensively. Scouts project him to hit for a solid average, with plenty of walks, and between 18-25 HR if all goes well. Again, IF he can play 2B at MLB average level, then that is a borderline elite bat at the position. A lot of if’s there. Then again, before this season, nothing in Galvis’ profile indicated he’d ever hit double digit home runs or have an OB% in the .330 range. Asche has a very impressive college track record. He needs to translate it to the minors. After a rough couple of games to start (perfectly understandable), he’s been raking.

    Now, if he moves back to 3B and can’t play 2B, then it impacts his value quite a bit. Hence, my ranking carrying caveats. But if the move to 2B isn’t something that has any long term potential, I’ll know more about that this winter and adjust my list accordingly.

    1. The MLB average OPS at 3B is only between .010 and .020 higher over the last 5 years than 2B. They tend to field a similar number of balls so as long as he can stick at either of the positions I’d be happy with it.

      As an aside, the average MLB OPS at C, 2B, 3B, and SS are all under .700 this year. Yikes.

      1. Putting Asche that high is quite suprising to me. I agree with don that the difference between 3B and 2B bat is not that significant to promote Asche, from his profile (he was not an elite hitter, I think Martinez is better), up to Top10. As much as I think Hernandez is overrated, he has shown even more improvement than Collier since the start of the season.

        Altherr has dropped like a rock. Rodriguez and Pettibone had a few tough starts but should be in Top15 still. From what I have heard on Hudson he will be in Top20 soon (replace Altherr in ‘upside’ guess).

  13. I didn’t see this posted anywhere else, but did you guys see the article on Mathieson today? At first I thought it was just a puff piece, but then they had this quote from RAJ that just about blew my stack: “He would have been allowed to throw as many as 80 in his next start. If that had gone well, he might have replaced Oswalt in the rotation instead of Kendrick, Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said. ‘He’s been throwing as well as we’ve seen him throw,’ Amaro said.”

    What? Mathieson has gone from AAAA reliever to fill-in starter again? Catch was on here saying how awesome he looked in those three innings – I guess the Phils agreed. Mathieson potentially becomes interesting again. The article says he got strikeouts on his split and curve (didn’t know he had a curve AND a slider…this sounds somewhat unlikely…)


    1. Madson to DL, Andrew Carpenter recalled from AAA. Guess that jump in his SO/9 has warranted another look.

    2. Mathieson … interesting article, what has to happen for him to work out with the phillies is pretty simple. He’s got a chance now, he either takes advantage of it or not. The kid always had the talent to be a starter, but with the injuries and time away from the game he never got the chance to really develop as a pitcher, those secondary pitches are often the last thing to develop. Yes his fastball is a bit flat, but with a slider, a splitter and a curve that makes for a real shot at a starting position somewhere down the line if his command holds.

    1. Prior to this I didn’t want Schwimm called up because he would be unused. But this seems like it would have been the right time, even if it is just for 6 days until Madson is back.

  14. I think they want Schwimer to get more innings at AAA first. I can’t wait for him to get the call but you can’t argue with Carpenter. Phils BP is looking like the Iron Pigs BP: Bastardo, Stutes, Herndon, Perez, Carpenter, Mathieson, and Baez is the only guy peoplem thought would be in the bigs (and there are arguments for that). Lets hope the kids keep it going. Did the the Phils have to make a move on the 40 man to get Carpenter through? Madson going to the 15 day wouldn’t do it alone. I knew they had 39 but then added Perez for 40.

  15. GCL Phils have a bouncer/linebacker pitching for them right now. This kid Rye Davis is 6-5 and 250 lbs. Big boy!

  16. All the talk in the winter about the young relievers making an impct this year is coming true before our eyes.

  17. PP I’m a bit suprised at 3 of your choices in the top 10 (not that they’re in the top 10, but more so their placement).

    1. Valle – if ANYONE on this site was going to be skeptical of his lack of walks I would have expected it to be you. That said, I happen to agree with him at 3, and i’ve already argued with other posters “out-the-gazzoo” about discounting him so much based on BB% at this time.

    2. Asche – already addressed here by others and you though I didn’t realize he made the move to 2B, makes him quite a bit more interesting. In terms of his scouting reports at 3b, did he have issue with his arm strength or his range? (huge difference for me there becuase a slick fielding 3b with a below average arm sounds an aweful lot like a future 2B to me!)

    3. May – I consider him a “stock-up” guy, yet given D. Brown dropping from this list, according to you, he gets a “neutral” rating.

  18. Btw, not that i’d consider him in my top 10, but reading over Harold Martinez’s scounting report gave me god damn goosebumps… seems like such a steal if you discount for his bad year last year. (I was reading asche’s over in relation to him being in the top 10)

    1. HMart claims an adjustment to the new type bats may have affected his power numbers this past collegiate season—–I am not aware, but what was the change in the bats that he is referring to?

      1. They made the “power zone” on metal bats smaller to be more inline with the pros…

        The thing is, it was such a large drop off in both doubles and HR power I really don’t understand it. I think the bat change thing while perhaps explaining a portion of the dropoff, couldn’t possibly represent that kind of shift. It would be like ryan howard having 500 AB’s in a year and only hitting 8 HR’s… it is really that drastic.

  19. Just wanted to apologize for not having the breakdowns the last few days. I’ve been in Vegas for the Rivals.com conference and well… Vegas is Vegas. I’ll get back on track.

  20. I should post this in one of my draft preview articles. Donovan Tate, a top 3 overall pick a few years ago by San Diego, suspended for 50 games for a 2nd substance abuse violation. Padres were praised by everyone for that pick at the time, with people calling Tate a Grady Sizemore comp with more power. Yeah, well, that didn’t work out. He’s been persistently injured (hey, maybe the Sizemore comp is accurate!) and now he’s one step closer to being out of the game for good.

    The draft is really tough to predict. No one really knows.

  21. Most exciting two cames of the year coming up. Beckett can be a beast but we have a beast.
    A great game by Worley reinstates the big four.

    1. take the top ten prospects tell houston to take their top 3 and give us pence. if they want 4 ok. one thing iv,e learned in life is EVERYBODY has their price. then take dom brown send him to fla. for c. coughlin. 2 guys who are not going anywhere in their current situations. but at least coughlin has proven he can do it.

      1. Would instantly become the 2nd and 3rd worst trades in Phillies history, with potential to be the worst two ever.

      2. This was a joke, right??? Coghlan had one good year…he’s been a below average hitting OF for the last year and a half…no power…no speed to talk about…and he’s another LH hitter. His OPS vs LH for this season is under .400!! (small sample though)
        You may as well give Brown away.

      3. Wow, thank god you’re not the GM. I would shudder at the thought of the Phillies minor league system.

        Yet again, my buddy the Marlins fan would laugh his ass off if the Marlins got a serious prospect for Coughlin. He’s an IF playing the outfield, struggling like crazy because the league adjusted and he didn’t, and all of a sudden, he can’t hit lefties at all.

  22. . Santa send two corner outfielders who play defense. Give them a little power and steady hitting and most of all the common sense to take a walk. High average not necessary but high OBP MANDATORY.
    No streak hitters please

    1. Santa send me two streak hitters who can hit a HR every other game with a guy on. Instant 2 runs every night. They can strike out every other time up. With 2 runs scored a game from corner OF, the rest of the lineup should be able to get another 1 or 2 for this great pitching staff.

    2. Brown will be fine.

      At the other corner. Sigh. Ibanez is really bad. Really really bad. Unlike the carping from some about the 7th reliever, the temporary back up catcher, etc., Ibanez’s futility really means something in terms of wins and losses. The worst regular in the majors this season. Think about that. The worst regular on the Houston Astros – 28 games under .500 – is signficantly better than Ibanez.

      But the internal options are Francisco and Mayberry. I think either (Francisco especially) would be much better, but it’s hard to fault the team too much for going with the veteran given those options. Even I – Francisco’s biggest booster in these parts – has to agree that he is miscast as a regular, and Mayberry really didn’t take advantage of his opportunity earlier this season.

      Of course they can make a deal for someone. The pickings though look a little thin, and I don’t want to see them mortgage the future for a rental. If the right deal comes along – believe me, no one will be happier than I if Ibanez is replaced.

      1. the worst 2 trades in phillies history, and i realize you dont go back that far , were fergie jenkins and ryne sandberg. btw for all you singleton freaks tell me were he,s going to play? i guess chalies talk helped browny get the dog out and i couldnt be happier if it continues. yes couglin is having a bad year, but he was roy in 2009. no power, has speed, .300 hitter. plays the game like it should be played . playing out of position in cf. he,s played 3rd and 2nd all of his career. i guess you dont deal in stocks, NOW, is the time when his value is low. why would pence for 3 or 4 prospects be a bad trade? a young all star for 3 0r 4 guys you have no clue about, unless your carnac which i dont think so.

          1. Greg,

            Honestly he isn’t worth engaging, though I keep falling into the trap myself. I’m even starting to almost a feel a little bad, since he is obviously developmentally disabled.

        1. If we don’t know that the prospects will amount to anything, it works the other way also. There’s no guarantee that Pence comes over and keeps on hitting or stays healthy (he’s already banged up this year). And above all, there’s no guarantee that getting Pence will get us the title. You’re not Carnac either.

        2. You might want to do some additional research on Pence since he’s played RF all of his career (except for 95 games his rookie year), including this season. Michael Bourne plays CF for the Astros. He’s never played the IF..

          He would certainly be an upgrade for the Phillies OF but he becomes a financial issue very quickly. He won his arbitration case for 2011 and is making $6.9M. He will be arbitration eligible in 2012 and 2013 and will be a FA in 2014. Expect he will get somewhere around 9-10M in 2012 and 12-13M in 2013 before hitting free agency.

          Paying to keep him past 2011, especially when he becomes a FA will result in making decisions elsewhere, like not resigning Rollins or Madson for 2012 and possibly having to make a decision between Cole Hamels and Victorino in 2013.

          If you’re advocating trading 3-4 “guys” who happen to be top prospests then the Phillies are almost forced to work out a long-term deal to keep him or he becomes an incredibly expensive rental in both $$$ and players.

          But I do have to laugh at you’re citing the trades of Jenkins and Sandberg as the Phillies worst trades. Weren’t both of those players “guys you have no clue about, unless your carnac which i dont think so” at the time.

          Isn’t hindsight wonderful!!!

          1. i happened to be following sandberg and jenkins at the time. mauch didnt like like fergie although it was obvious he was very good. we all know why sandberg was traded. as far as pence,s salary it would 3.5 prorated this year and of course the phillies will have to deal with an increase in the future. but dont tell me they dont have the money. your just being naive. btw if he,s played rf then he can certainly play lf instead of the dissapearing iban ez. as far as gaurantees there are none, but there are probabilities, and i,ll take the probability that pence would have a better career with the phillies than any of the prospects mentioned.it,s a question of need. no one has yet told me where singleton is going to play. and as far as the above nitwit whose posts resemble the lenght of a james joyce novel but make about as much sense as someone whose brain synapsis fail to connect your attempt to be the defacto leader of this site is a sad joke. and yes 3up i am not carnac just someone with an opinion based on observation, probability, and having followed bb for 50 years. nothing personal. i even pity larry.

            1. Oh, that old saw about them having the money. It doesn’t really matter if the have the money or not since they’ve established that payroll is going to stay below the luxury tax level. It’s naive to think that they are just going to keep increasing salary every season without end.

              But your right that the salary for 2011 isn’t much of an issue but the point is that you’re advocating giving up valuable resources without any considerations for 2012 and beyond other than using the old fallback position that “the have the money”.

              Even if you opinion is that none of these prospects will become anything, the point remains that they ARE valuable assets based on the opinions of talent evaluators around the game.

              It’s severely short-sited to throw them away in a panic over a sub-par performing LF’er in 2011.

            2. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe the door was shut completely regarding Singleton playing LF in the future. The reports I read suggest he was doing ok in the OF. He was moved back to 1B due to an injury and his May slump at the plate. This was different than the Ryan Howard LF experiment which wait nowhere.

            3. Agree with Mr. Kaat…Singleton is 19 and in A ball. I believe he has some time before his path to the majors is blocked.

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