516 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of June 10, 2018

  1. How about a post-draft top 50 ?
    I’m including draft picks and international players who we are reportedly signing on July 2nd. I am not including any prospect playing in Philadelphia right now or at all so far this year. I also skipped Jose Taveras because I believe he’s going to be dealt for J2 dollars on July 3rd. Here’s what I’ve come up with:

    1. Sixto Sanchez
    2. Adonis Medina
    3. Alec Bohm
    4. Jhailyn Ortiz
    5. Roman Quinn
    6. Adam Haseley
    7. Francisco Morales
    8. JoJo Romero
    9. Enyel De Los Santos
    10. Starlyn Castillo
    11. Spencer Howard
    12. Franklyn Kilome
    13. Ranger Saurez
    14. Mickey Moniak
    15. Kevin Gowdy
    16. Arquimedes Gamboa
    17. Edgar Cabral
    18. Logan Simmons
    19. Dominic Pipkin
    20. Cole Irvin
    21. Darick Hall
    22. Simon Muzziotti
    23. Nick Maton
    24. Daniel Brito
    25. Kyle Young
    26. Bailey Falter
    27. Jonathan Guzman
    28. Will Stewart
    29. Luis Garcia
    30. Drew Anderson
    31. Cornelius Randolph
    32. Jake Holmes
    33. Connor Seasbold
    34. Jake Scheiner
    35. Colton Eastman
    36. Tom Eshelman
    37. Austin Listi
    38. Ben Pelletier
    39. DJ Stewart
    40. Carlos De La Cruz
    41. Jhordany Mezquita
    42. Ramon Rosso
    43. Jakob Hernandez
    44. Ethan Lindow
    45. Manuel Silva
    46. Brayan Gonzales
    47. Gabriel Cotto
    48. Edgar Garcia
    49. McKenzie Mills
    50. Abrahan Gutierez

      1. You do have a point for top 50. His numbers this year are tremendously better than last season.
        But still…a career 35% K rate player with less than 9% BB rate, with a career slash of .232/.294/.393 and repeating a level at age 22 in Hi-A would make it hard to put him in the top 30. IMO, he could be in the 40s somewhere.

        1. You’re both right. Pujols has probably done enough to reestablish himself as a (back end) top 50 prospect. I did overlook him.

    1. Pretty good list.

      I don’t know Castillo so I’ll pass on making any comment.

      I would have Quinn way lower – he can’t stay healthy, ever (don’t you think 6 straight years of injuries is a big enough sample size?) – as a result, I can’t justify putting him in the top 15. I would also have Gowdy lower because he’s proven nothing and has now missed 2 years of development time.

      I would have Gamboa (great prospect) and Irvin higher and De Los Santos a little higher too.

    2. @hinkie – make that post R4 with a touch of J2 since you have Starlyn. We have the same usual suspects almost the same spots except for the following:

      1) JD Hammer – closer potential. Where is he in your list? I have him at #37.

      2) Jake Hernandez – i know he’s your boy so he should make it. But over Edgar Garcia? Edgar Garcia at #48 seems low. I have Garcia at #25 and Jake didn’t made my Top 50.

      3) I’m intrigue with Carlos dela Cruz, but not enough to make my Top 50. Same with DJ Stewart. I have Jose Taveras #33 and Llovera #49 in my Top 50 instead of the Carlos and DJ.

      I also gave Brayan Gonzalez higher at #23 and bring down Quinn to #15.

    3. Gowdy is way too high imo. think romero Is too high, love to see quinn play hurt too much

      1. Gowdy is an enigma (just like Quinn). I have Gowdy at #30 because he hasn’t pitched enough but could easily move him 10-15 spots higher due to “pure potential”.

        Hinkie seems to be high on Edgar Cabral too, ranking #17. Logan O’Hoppe will be my best catching prospect if he signs, but will not rank him yet until I’ve seen him play to prove that the scouting reports are true or not.

    4. Nice list. Irvin should be top 12-15. Quinn way down. Marchan is missing. He’s top 30 for me. Bossart may only project as a backup but top 40 for me.

    5. My top 10 is:
      1 Medina
      2 Sanchez
      3 DeLosSantos
      4 Bohm
      5 Ortiz
      6 Haseley
      7 Kilome
      8 Suarez
      9 Romero
      10 Gamboa

    1. Nope. J Meneses appears to be a RH 1B bat. I rather have Knapp, Cozens, Williams and Valentin get the ABs that will be allocated to J Meneses. If Kaplers goes with JPC and Kingery at the left side, then Franco might move to 1B to get his ABs as well.

      All the names I’ve mentioned have better skills and potential than J Meneses.

      1. If Cozens and Valentin have better skills than Meneses, why didn’t they it show in AAA

        1. what?!? so AAA now is the litmus test to show who got better skills? no offense, but your comment is one of the most ridiculous post i’ve seen om this site.

          i’m also not an expert, but how come no teams/GM gave Meneses chance to play in the majors and he is playing pro ball ahead of Cozens and Valentin? i can’t find any reports that saying Joey Meneses is a good prospect at all.

    1. These rankings confirm what I feel – the Phillies are sort of middle of the road in terms of prospects now given how many have graduated in the last year.

      1. Yeah, I think he was a little more highly regarded than Bohm, but this is one case where, if they had Bohm and Madrigal ranked close to one another, it made sense to go with Bohm – a player who they believed would be more useful to them.

        1. I read some reports that the Phils got a Rd 1 draft grade ranging from C to F for picking Bohm which to me is ridiculous. Madrigal (some think Singer) is the safer choice but I can’t fault the Phils for betting on Bohm’s potential. A prospect that can hit for power and average with good plate discipline is a game changer. Teams draft prospects for their “potential” and not what they did in the past.

          1. KuKo….when you compare the two and their tools….Madrigal beats out Bohm on every tool but the power one.
            IMO, the ‘hit’ tool is very close and can be very difficulty to differentiate between the two.but apparently based on their top 100 prospect rankings many give the edge to Madrigal.

            1. @romus – i agree that Madrigal is the better prospect, but I just don’t think they are far apart and don’t understand why the Phils get an F for picking Bohm at 1.3.

            2. Yeah…an F makes no sense.
              Actually anything less than a B makes no sense to me.
              Even if he has to play first base, he will still have good hitting metrics IMO.

  2. I was looking up college stats recently, and I decided to check Pat Burrell’s stats. They are otherworldly to say the least.

    His 3 year (162 game) line was: .442/.578/.886 for an OPS of 1.464 with a walk rate of 24.5% and a K rate of 13.5%.

    As a comp, Kris Bryant was considered an elite college prospect. His overall college line doesn’t come close at all .353/.486/.702 for an OPS of 1.188. with a 17% k rate and a 17% walk rate.

    Pat’s college stats are of a generational type player. Truly unbelievable in every facet. Elite power, vision, contact. Pat’s Freshman year, he played 60 games (192 ABs) he posted .484/.609/.948 = 1.557 OPS. Almost a frigg’in .500 batting average. And he did it against elite competition. Truly exceptional.

    Pat significantly under achieved his potential with a career 19 WAR.

    1. Some of those figures would be tough to translate to today’s college player Pre and Post BBCORE Bats.

      You’d have to really knock down the power numbers IMO. Walk Rate K Rate pretty much still align.

  3. Romus Otani is out until 2020 does he get paid.? does that count against the cap? Do you think they get it all back from insurance.?

    1. rocco … I haven’t read anything about Otani being out until 2020. Otani’s only making about 550 thousand dollars this year and next season.
      If you’re correct and Otani is out until 2020, he still gets paid. The biggest impact (IMO) of a serious injury to Otani is it would put a dent into the LAA’s playoff chances in 2018 and 2019. Mike Trout’s contract runs out in 2020. If they don’t at least make a playoff appearance before the end of 2020, I think that would have a negative impact on Trout signing an extension. If he makes it to free agency, I’d place the odds (as of right now) of Trout’s next team at:
      60% Angels
      39% Phillies
      1% the field

      1. @hinkie – i saw the news this morning, but waiting for some credible reporting.

        apparently, ESPN is reporting that LAA expect Ohtani to undergo TJ surgery, thus, missing the whole 2018 and possibly significant amount of 2019.

        Although LAA hope that Ohtani can avoid TJ surgery by receiving stem cell treatment.

    2. roco….he is on a minor league contract which is minimal, but still gets paid.
      He also is a free agent unless the Angels extend him at that time.

    3. This is sad – he is so good for baseball. Those Japanese teams can really push a pitcher out pretty far.

      1. Then again….how many North American drafted kids require TJ before they even reach age 23.

  4. Here is my top 16 for the hell of it. I refuse to include anybody who has yet to throw a pitch or have an AB in pro ball. It is based on watching a lot of minor league games last year, watching MILB TV this year and spending 19 days in March hanging around the minor league complex mornings and afternoons.
    (1) Sanchez
    (2) Ortiz
    (3) De Los Santos
    (4) Suarez
    (5) Haseley
    (6) Morales
    (7) Medina
    (8) Romero
    (9) Irvin
    (10) Howard
    (11) Gamboa
    (12) Grullon
    (13) Edgar Garcia
    (14) Muzziotti
    (15) Lindow
    (16) Cabral

    I have been pushing Howard since the first time I saw him at Williamsport but his production hasn’t come close to his arm talent. Romero needs to pick it up considerably the second half. I really like Lindow based on spring training. Similar to Fanti, Young and Stewart in that he is a lefty that doesn’t throw hard but I think he is a superior prospect to those three.

    1. Lakewood’s Damon Jones is a lefty you overlooked.
      Throws 90-93T94/95.
      Missed almost a year in college with elbow surgery …flexor tendon mass repair.
      So he is a year older than most college guys drafted last year.

    2. You’ve got Medina really low … is there something you don’t like about him?

      1. I wouldn’t say #7 is really low. I could have put him ahead of Morales since Morales hasn’t proven anything yet. But I watched Morales in spring training 2-3 times and was impressed with that arm and size.

        Medina is a good prospect for sure but I am not ready to claim he is a potential a #1 or #2. Last year I thought he was the 4th best starter at Lakewood behind Sanchez, Romero and Suarez.

  5. I hope that people are not confusing Edgar Garcia (potentially high leverage/closer stuff) with Edgar Cabral (defensive catcher that’s hitting well) when it comes to prospect rankings. Bullpen arms like Edgar Garcia don’t get enough consideration in prospect ranking and so are back up catchers.

    I honestly think that Edgar Cabral can be a poor man’s Chooch and I can see a team pick him in the upcoming Rule 5 if the Phils expose him. Once Klentak start his roster purge, we might see Edgar Cabral in the 40-man as the Phils has a big hole in the back up C who can play a good defense.

    Edgar Garcia is a lock to be added in the 40-man and we might see him pitch in September unless he reached his innings limit.

    1. and Edgar Garcia with Elniery Garcia (used to be a perennial Top 30 who is not playing well anymore).

      Edgar Garcia doesn’t have the velocity and sink of Seranthony’s FB, but it is still considered as at least above average and his SL shows a plus potential. His stuff (FB-SL) looks better than Arano and Ramos.

  6. Salisbury says to look for Machado to come here but not until the off season. Look for possibky Moustakas in July.

    1. I was think about 3rd base. Your not bring in a 3 baseman until you move Franco . JP will have to play some where this yr. Let’s say Machado signs as a SS in the off season .

      JP and Franco need new homes. When Bohm comes in about 2 yrs . So where do you put them …… In a trade.

        1. Your not going to cut Franco he’ll be picked up and starting some where in a NY min.
          He’s 24 can still play 3rd with power . He’s played on some bad teams in some bad lineups trying to do too much.
          Franco has 36 home runs at home 35 on the road so his power is legit. His .ops at home .727 away .720 he has a .814 .ops in June his best month.
          The Braves would pick him up start him let him hit .260 drive in between 80 to 100 runs a yr. He can hit 25 home runs a yr . Plus he increase his doubles every yr 22 ,23,29. He’s also the 5 th youngest 3 Rd baseman.
          I don’t get the love for JP At 3rd he’s hardly had hitting over .200 .

          1. The Braves have a 3B who’s probably better. The only teams Franco would start for are ones with no 3B. He would get picked up and put in AAA while the team tries to unlock the talent that the Phillies haven’t been able to get to.

          2. Well, you’re making the case for him based on a narrow view of outdated metrics.

            Hey, you think, he hits like 25 homers a year and drives in a bunch of runs and hits doubles so he’s a good player. Uh, no, he isn’t. The problem is that his OBP is awful and he is actually just a replacement level offensive player and an average third baseman. On the whole he’s been replacement level – not good at all.

            Now he does have physical talents – those are real. And he’s 26 so he could still break through. But he hasn’t done it for the Phillies and now his job is jeopardy as it should be.

            It’s fine to say that you think he will become a good player – it’s definitely possible. But he isn’t now. A team full of Maikel Francos loses 95 games a year. He’s not a good player right now.

          3. Since Kapler decided that Kingery is best suited at SS, it came down to Franco and JP for 3B. Franco has the edge on offense, but it seems that JP has the edge on defense, pretty much based on what he did last season at 3B. And since you kind of know what Franco can do, Kapler gave the job to JP to see what he can do.

            1. In the long run you won’t have Cesar, JP and Kingery at those three spots (someone else will play third) – but for now they want to give them all at bats and let it play out to see who they will keep at short and second. It’s not a bad idea.

  7. Let’s say the Phillies can improve there every day line up without trading for Machado.
    Get Realmuto form the Marlins for maybe Franco , 2 minor pitchers not name Sixto or Medina. VV might even be included.

    Now the Phillies need a 3 Rd baseman Todd Frazier is on the Mets under control for more yrs . He can still play 3 Rd and hit for power . Plus he’s a local kid even after Bohm comes up Frazier Could be really good bench bat . I don’t think the Mets will ask for much maybe really young pitcher prospect.
    New lineup.
    Williams or Altherr
    Kingery or JP.

    1. Nah. Don’t think so.
      C Alfaro
      1b Santana
      2b Kingery
      SS Machado
      3b Crawford
      LF Hoskins
      CF Herrera
      RF H⭐!⭐!⭐

      1. Realmuto is light yrs ahead of Alf both Def and big time offense. JP stays at 3rd for 1 yr then What ? Bohm ,Machado wheres Jp ? JP bat has to play up at third that means he has to show plus Power numbers his major weakness.
        The Phillies are missing power numbers as a hole team. That’s a major key to them making a run at the playoffs this yr or next.

        1. Why worry about JPs power or lack thereof, when Manny has more power than the average shortstop. And whether JP is still around in another year is hardly a concern when Bohm may very well be ready at some point next season. Realmuto is not, nor should be, a target for the Phillies. He would cost way more in prospects than a rental Manny.

          1. No the Marlins have given away so of there best players for almost nothing.there’s alot more to why Kingery playing SS right now . JP hasn’t shown he cold hit LHP yet. I Can almost bet you Bohm in Reading by his time next yr. With Machado only wants to play SS where’s that put JP.

    2. I don’t understand how you guys can give the Marlins peanuts for Realmuto and honestly think they will accept it. Seriously? He won’t be a FA until 2021! It starts with Medina at least and goes from there. You have to give talent to get talent!

      1. @Guru – you just need to be creative and open your mind. Trades are not solely player swap – talent for talent. Trades are means to improve your roster. Without thinking, it looks like just plain acquiring talent but it is not. Other than just acquiring players, roster space, payroll, dead contracts, flexibility, depth, talent pipeline are equally important to most teams in building a winning roster.

        Acquiring talents is probably the easiest thing for a GM to do — just hand out cash. NYY lived that way for some time. But baseball is also business so not teams would just burn cash without thinking of the ramification of their decisions,

        In the case of MIA, they are looking to unload contract obligation to create liquidity and solvency to run the team. The Stanton trade doesn’t look like an equal trade of talent, but for MIA, this is a win situation because they were able to unload a significant contract obligation whose amount similar to somebody winning a lottery.

        GMs are now attaching talent just to unload contracts and create roster space. It’s happening almost in all major sports. Also, it’s hard to construct a sustainable roster full of talented athletes since teams will have to eventually pay and these players will ask for playing time. so the scrubs or peanuts that you are referring too may not be the best talent in your team but they can be the role players that most winning teams have in their line to sustain a success.

        1. First, the Marlins already reduced their payroll. They will likely have a smaller payroll next year than this year, even if you include the raise that Realmuto will get. They have no obligation to move Realmuto unless they get blown away.

          Second, I understand that teams can absorb contracts. However, you get the contract, you get the player. We’re a team on the rise. We’re trying to win games. We can’t afford to keep a below average player on the roster. For example, let’s say the Phillies get Realmuto, but we get Wei-Yin Chen also. What do we do with Chen? We cut him and eat the remaining $47M on his contract? So we have to pay $47M and prospects for Realmuto?

          Teams don’t trade for peanuts and scrubs, you can pick those up on the cheap in the offseason. You’ll arguably get hungrier players who will do whatever it takes to stay on a roster, like Florimon and Andres Blanco before him.

          And BTW, when the Marlins traded Yelich, they got back a top 25 prospect. There’s your talent for talent.

          1. @Guru – you’re generalizing when you say peanuts and scrubs – name names. I’ve on record here proposing an Alfaro + Moniak and possibly Gamboa and other A pitcher for Realmuto + bad contracts. Are those the type of players you think that are cheap? Other than talent, GMs value controllable cost a lot!! As in cost controlled is KING to most teams!

            As for paying $47M to get Realmuto – that’s a bargain. How much do you think a team will pay to sign a FA with Realmuto’s talent?? $100M at least.

            As for Yelich, MIL did not absorbed any dead contract because they also value payroll obligations. Let’s say, Yelich is owed $125M, do you think MIL will give up the same prospects? Yelich is only owed $43.25M and $15M team option!!!

            Unlike the Phils, who can win the World Cup of Payroll Flexibility OUTRIGHT — they can absorb any type of a dead weight. Teams can acquire players in terms of prospects or by absorbing contracts. NYY, ATL, SD just recently did that.

            1. My main beef is that we’re trying to trade for elite players, and we’re not trading back top 100 prospects. For me, any prospect not in the top 100 is a B type prospect at the maximum. That said, it doesn’t mean that De Los Santos or Irvin (who are not in the top 100) will not be able to succeed. They certainly can, but I’m not valuing them at the same rate as say Sixto Sanchez if you know what I mean.

              As for naming names, Franco, Knapp are peanuts. They are throw-ins to any deal. Alfaro has some value but not as much as you think. Alfaro has 0.4 WAR, he’s barely replacement level FOR NOW. He could improve, and possibly some team might look at him and dream, but he won’t get you an elite player. Moniak has more value than other B type prospects because he was a former #1 pick, but that value is dwindling fast. Gamboa is B type prospect. And don’t be fooled by thinking I can trade 4 B type prospects for 1 elite player. It doesn’t work that way either.

              Cost controlled is great, but you want cost controlled on GOOD PLAYERS. Technically, any player still on arbitration is cost controlled. So Nola is cost controlled which is great. Franco and Knapp are cost controlled too, and we’re trying to ship them out of town.

              Like I said before, the Marlins payroll is manageable. They don’t have to trade Realmuto. And if they do, somebody will give a top 100 prospect which would beat your deal for him.

              I guarantee you, the Phillies sniffed around Yelich for a trade. But when the Brewers offered Lewis Brinson and others, the Phillies couldn’t beat that.

            2. @Guru – GMs have their own way of valuing players. There are instances that the B-levels or thrown in becomes the best player or the highly touted becomes the bust. So i will not sweat with the WAR and evaluation that you made. For team like MIA, they are more concerned about future value than current value since they are not contending the in the years to come.
              So player’s pedigree and projection will be more important to them.

              Our difference in opinion is on how we read a situation. You basically value players, thus, the talent for talent. You value talent based on what others are doing, which is fine and acceptable. GMs should be really good and spot in in their talent evaluation to gain the advantage.

              And GMs can also overpay if they really intend to get the player they but this is more of an outlier than a norm. This is a good approach for teams that are in WIN-NOW mode.

              I follow a different philosophy — i let economics (demand and supply) to determine value. A player has different values (in trade or FA) at a different points in time, GMs just need to know when is the right time to get the best value.

          2. First off I said Franco 2 prospect maybe Morales and Haseley and VV. The Phillies take Realmuto and maybe Castro . Then maybe the Phillies can include Cehe.
            Realmuto has stated several times he wants out. He’s not going to resign with the Marlins. That brings his price down.

            1. Not my point Romus when a player states he wants off team his trade value goes down. Teams know he isn’t going to sign a long term contract .

    1. Prospect rankings is one of the most subjective exercises in the sport especially towards the back end of the rankings. For what I observed in this site, current stats or what have you done lately can shoot a prospect from unranked to Top 20. Power and velocity and proximity also carry some weight here.

      For evaluators who highly value “future physical projection”, Nick Fanti may not make the cut since Fanti’s current stuff is average across the board.

      In my rankings, Fanti is in my projectible lefty bucket (ranked #31 to #35) with #31 Falter, #32 Mezquita, #33 Stewart, #34 Fanti and #35 Lindow.

      Some people will think that my #34 ranking is generous. But I believe that Fanti can increase his FB velocity and the CU can be very good.

      1. Fanti’s velocity is well below average – on an 80 grade it’s like 25 or so. And I never rely on prospects to increase their velocity when they’ve already been in the minors a few years. It’s possible, but you can’t expect that.

    1. Tim – you make all sorts of unqualified statements (like Maikel Franco being 24 – really? Check his profile) and then, when you investigate at what you say a little, you find out that your assertions are just flat out, utterly wrong – like your statement that the Marlins never got a prospect as well regarded as Medina – who was ranked between 46 and 86 this year. First, let’s look at the Yelich trade. In that trade alone, the Marlins received two prospects ranked as highly or more highly than Medina and a third ranked almost as highly. Lewis Brinson was a much higher ranked prospect than Medina (top 20 2 of the last 3 years), and Monte Harrison is ranked between 48 and 75 – roughly where you might have Medina ranked and Isan Diaz was ranked between 65 and 93 – pretty close to Medina. On top of that they got Jordan Yamamota in the trade and he has a great arm and could move fast. So, to your point, the Marlins know how to ask for and obtain good prospects in trades and they clearly would ask for someone like Medina in a Realmuto trade knowing the Phillies won’t flip Sanchez. And he won’t be the only one they insist on getting.

      1. as i replied to Guru – MIA was right to ask a lot because Yelich checked the 3 priorities that GMs are looking for:

        1) Very good player – checked
        2) Young and developing – checked
        3) Cost controlled and cheap – checked

        Yelich is considered premium and Realmuto should be the same too. If the Phils don’t want to pay in terms of prospects, they can by absorbing contracts. This tactic is no longer a secret in all major sports. MIL decided to pay in terms of prospects but it doesn’t necessary mean the Phils should do the same.

        Jeter wants to shed payroll and collect cost controlled players too. MIA will not contend for at least 3-5 years so Realmuto will be a wasted asset. A good GM will pick on those opportunities. For Klentak, work on the cost controlled talents and absorbed some contracts. Alfaro, Moniak, Gamboa and another projectible pitcher (i.e. Howard, Seabold, Rosso) plus some bad contracts is a good offer.

        The bad contracts will be key because not a lot of teams are willing to absorb contracts. Even big market teams like MYY are attaching a premium prospect like Clint Frazier just to get rid of a bad Ellsbury contract.

      2. So what Franco 25 . Brinson really can’t hit ML pitching .169/.215/.315 10bb 74 k’s.alot of people who seen him said he can’t adjust .
        Monte Harrison can’t hit AA .227/.305/.408 get this 102 k’s in 233 at Bats .he’ll 23 in August. Diaz looks like unity player. So those Marlin scouts you are talking about don’t know the hit tool to well. Most teams don’t use wedsite rankings for trades. They use there own scouting department who have seen these players. Miami scouting might not be the best since there ownership is pretty cheap. So you can name # all you want . Brinson and Harrison hit tools are very bad at this point the Brewers raked the Marlins .

    1. Looks like you may be coming around on Eflin.
      Two years ago you measured and tied in Eflin’s future project-ability in the majors to his K/9….which thru his minor league career hovered in the 6/7K/ 9 range..the whiff and,swing and miss factor.
      He claimed he was a 2Smr all the way from his Padres days,, and the low K/9…then the knees got repaired and his velo picks up with stringer trunks and he is using the 4Smr more than ever.
      Just hope he can continue to have good success..

      1. I have wavered with Eflin for two years now. But I think his pitchability factor may be higher than Pivetta’s. And definitely higher now than Velasquez. He’ll have a clunker now and then but his profile has sharpened as the Ks have become more frequent.

      2. Any time that I make a prediction on a pitcher, it is based on his current stuff. I can’t predict 3 years later that he would add 2 mph of velocity to his fastball and thus 2.5 More Ks/9. I like this version much better.

        But if you recall, my concern is with pitch to contact and low strikeout pitchers. This article stares that that approach failed for him. He is only now succeeding because he is striking out hitters. That has been my point all along. K rate is king.

        1. Agree…the knees are better and he can air it out and utilize the 4Smr when he needs to.

        2. And I agree with you about the importance of K rates as a general rule. We had an interesting discussion a few years ago on Zach Eflin. I asserted that, given his raw stuff and arm, with some better coaching, the potential existed for him to increase his K rate and become more effective. While he’s not out of the woods, we are starting to see this with him. For this reason, I also place great performance on a pitcher’s stuff, especially in the minors. If the stuff isn’t good enough, the K rate likely won’t translate to higher levels and if the stuff is really good, the potential for future spikes in K rates exist.

          1. The Zach article is a good one, but what it really doesn’t capture is that the Phillies pitchers are being coached differently. Ground Ball Bob McClure and his pitch at the knees, pitch to contact philosophy is gone (THANK GOD!!!). The new pitching coach clearlys wants guys who throw 94-97 to pitch up in the zone and change eye level. Eflin and Pivetta, especially, have benefitted from this philosophy as I always thought they would.

          2. That why I wasn’t on the Nola wagon. but with the increase velocity he is a stud. without it imo he was a 3 now a tor.

            1. @roccom – Nola can enjoy success as a pitch to contact since he can generate movement from his pitches and he can hit his spots. Arrieta has the some attribute (movement and location), thus, he can enjoy success if he chose to.

              nonetheless, pitching to contact doesn’t appeal me that much. i will only apply that to generate double plays and if the wind is carrying the flyballs.

            2. Nola doesn’t just pitch to contact – he gets his fair share of Ks – K rate is good.

            3. @catch – i’m not saying that Nola should pitch to contact but just telling roccom that Nola can be successful in that approach if he chose too. But now, he should not be doing that because Nola can K anybody out with all of his pitches.

            4. Don’t kid yourself – Nola would be a much lesser pitcher without the K rate – closer to Hellickson than what you see out there now.

            5. @catch – most of Nola’s K comes from his CB and CU and those pitches are better than Hellickson’s. Nola is better than Hellickson ever.

            6. Yeah, I hear you, he’s better than Hell Boy for sure. But when Nola was having trouble with his velocity a few years ago, he definitely struggled.

            7. Your crazy Nola had the 20 best era in baseball last yr. His FB speed hasn’t changed from last yr to this yr.

  8. I’m also not an advocate of pitch to contract since this approach reduces your margin of error. a pitcher can adopt this approach attacking a certain hitter, but it will hard to sustain a success unless you’re a type of pitcher who can accurately hit your spots,

    Most hitters will tell you that the easiest pitch to hit is a FB that you know that’s coming. So the pitcher’s ability to change speed is equality important. A good FB can set up your other pitchers, and at the same time, a good pitch mix can set up your FB for a K/out. And of course, pitches need to be a strike so control/command is also necessary.

    IMO, to enjoy a sustainable success in the rotation – a pitcher should have at least 2 of the following: 1) velocity; 2) command and/or 3) ability to change speed (pitch mix). A pitcher with all 3 attributes is a bonafide ace.

    1. and of course, when it comes to velocity, league average per pitch type is a benchmark. a pitcher cannot throw 10% below league average velocity and be successful.

    2. One of the primary reasons for pitch-to-contact……to reduce PC and pitch longer into games.
      High strike out pitchers burn to many pitches and along with most pitchers, the third time thru the lineup they will normally get hit around.
      There are both pros and cons to it.
      Velasquez is a prime example of not a pitch-to-contact pitcher….and you see what he has had to endure.

      1. @romus – in my observation, pitchers who succeeded in pitching to contact can generate movement in their pitch. Vinny, Eflin, and Jake cannot create that much movement in their pitches to succeed in that approach. Notice also that these trio are big bodied who can withstand the physical pounding of throwing harder.

        Jake used to throw some heat before, maybe the change in style affects his feel for pitching.

        1. One thing that real disappoints me is franco. How they never got thru to him. Shame cause the talent is there. but with his approach he is never going to be a stud like I thought. Maybe going to another organization will help him. I watch him in the minors and he improve it seem at level but for some reason. he lost it now. His obp is terrible.

  9. With Velasquez and Eflin, people tend to forget that we’re talking about 4th and 5th starters. Realistically, if Eickhoff had been healthy, one of them would be in Lehigh. What can we expect from them? I expect them to pitch one game out of five like an Ace, and one game like a bum. The other three games, hopefully, they’ll pitch well enough to give the team a chance to win. The key to this is getting offensive support.
    Can we get a clue here folks? Franco is not the worst player on this team. He has 47 hits (4th), 8 HR’s (2nd), 32 RBI’s (4th), and in most categories he doing better than the people who are playing in front of him. Nobody is blaming Crawford, Kingery, Altherr, or Williams, but everybody is screaming to get rid of Franco. He’s better than Pedro Feliz, and Pedro has a World Series ring.
    Franco is having a typical Franco year. The problem is that the other 7 batters in the line up are having sub average years (Herrera and Hernandez included). When (if) Gabe figures out which buttons to push to get the hitters going, we won’t be worried about the 4th and 5th starters.
    Klentak lied when he said he would give Franco this year to prove himself. He got 2 months. Sometimes a GM has to blow a little smoke up our asses, it’s part of the job. Lying to us, and Franco, is a whole different thing. At this moment in time, ask yourself if the line up is better with Franco in it, or Crawford/Kingery?

    1. Get a clue yourself – Maikel Franco is a replacement level player. He’s not a good player right now and hasn’t been for the last few years. He’s had his chances. He could turn it around because he has talent, but it’s not like they’ve given him no chances. He’s had more than most get.

      1. People are understandably frustrated because he’s had a ton of development time with no development and he’s quite a bit older and more experienced than the other guys. He’s not in the same boat as Kingery or Crawford or Williams or Alfaro.

        1. And, by the way, I’m not discounting the probability that one year Maikel Franco wakes up and becomes a 3-5 WAR player. He has that talent in him. But he hasn’t come close to doing that so far and his progress at the plate has be meager at best.

      2. “get a clue yourself” — catch, that’s funny! lol! i hope Wawa knows how to get a clue by himself.

        1. Sorry, I have a B.S. meter in my head and it goes off when: (a) people assert positions stridently that are ridiculous (telling me to “get a clue” about how good Maikel Franco has been? Ridiculous); and (b) people just fabricate demonstrably inaccurate facts to “prove” their positions when those facts can easily be checked and shown to be blatantly erroneous (such as Tim saying that the Marlins haven’t traded for any prospects as good as Medina when, on the Yelich trade alone 2 more highly ranked prospects were trade and a third who was nearly as highly ranked was trade – Dude, do you think we are so stupid that we can’t check Baseball Reference and show your statements to simply be false – total nonsense).

          1. I get so pissed I lose my editing abilities – sorry for the typos. Take that!!!

            1. I tend to go with WAR because it measures (or attempts to measure) defensive contributions as well. I am not as familiar with WR+ but I do like OPS+ to give you an idea of how well a guy is doing compared with the league.

              Right now, I have to say I am not happy with the pitching-happy direction of baseball. I know the Phillies are not great on offense, but I think the pitching is taking over and, at some point, maybe they do something about this. And by the way, I think the improvements in pitching are entirely real and not a mirage. A run of the mill middle reliever these days throws 94-97. That’s insane. And the book they have on hitters is endless. This trend is fairly recent. I think the pitching in 2018 is a LOT better than the pitching in 2008.

              At some point the scales have to be balanced but it sure make you appreciate how great of a player Mike Trout must be to perform like this in a new era of pitchers. The question is no longer whether Trout is HOF worthy (he already has enough HOF chits at age 26, which is incomprehensible), or whether he’s the best player in baseball (duh), or whether he’s as good as Mantle or Mays (this far into his career, he is), but whether he’s going to challenge Babe Ruth as the greatest player who ever lived. Trout is that great and is in the middle of his greatest season.

            2. Ok,
              I also think OPS+ is another measurable metric.
              And not sure Trout could ever reach Ruth’s 182bWAR
              He would have to do 12 more years of 10WAR seasons.

              As for the pitching….I think the defensive shifts have really put a dagger into the offensive numbers that players want to strive for. Of course, HRs are also on the rise these last few years.

          2. That’s because your BS Catch. If you did go into baseball reference look up how those prospect are going the Marlins hand picked for the Yelich deal . Not to well Harrison can’t hit AA pitching Brinson is not a ML reg with that K rate. Great job by the Brewers they stole Yelich.

            1. Tim – your response is utter nonsense and, again, unintelligible gibberish. You said that the Marlins did not get any prospects in their various trades that were anywhere near as good as Medina. This is and outright falsehood. There were three players IN ONE TRADE ALONE that were ranked similarly. There was no heist there – the Marlins received fair consideration for that trade. Stop it – your position is ridiculous – you made this stuff up.

            2. You think Monte HARRISON IS A good prospect A K RATE OF 40 % iN AA. I mean
              He leads the entire AA league in stikeouts with 102 only 20 walks. http://m.milb.com/stats/#/js/stats/?sort_by=class&o=aax&t=1&s=so . He also has a long injury .
              Lewis Brinson the other header in the Yelich can’t hit MLB pitching .170/.214/.313 75 STIKE OUTS 10 bb . Brinson has a bad history of hamstring injuries . Niether Brinson or Harrison show the approach needed to sucessed . There hit tools are way below avg.
              Isan Daiz is a bad glove 2nd base man.

              You call that a good trade for Yelich .lol
              You look at a ranking sheet saw there were rated high. D Brown was rated high too JP was #1 . You didn’t see how they were doing with is horrible.
              # Catch ” you can’t handle the truth you don’t know baseball” .

            3. In Fact I’m changing my trade for Realmuto to Alfaro and Jose Pujols since Maimi scouts like the swing and miss prospects so much.

            4. Blah Blah Blah – I’ve forgotten more about baseball than you’ll ever know.

    2. I used to be like you, valuing hits, HRs and RBIs. That way is the past. You need to start looking at WAR for starters, and OPS+. Franco has an OPS+ of 90, which means he’s a below average offensive player. Franco has -0.4 WAR (-0.6 dWAR). This means he’s instantly replaceable, and his defense is subpar. He’s going to be 26 and has had his chances. It’s time for somebody else to get a shot.

      You’re definitely more realistic when it comes to pitchers. Right now, VV and Eflin are 4-5 starters.

      1. Well, it depends if you think Eflin’s performance is sustainable. Thus far he has performed like a 3/4. VV has been a 4 due to inconsistency.

        1. I’m hoping that they’ll be more than that. But right now, you can’t say that they’ll be more than that until they do it for at least a season.

          1. Both have the ceiling of a 2/3 – but that’s a high projection. VV has to show the ability to control games, which he has not done consistently.

  10. @Wawa – the Phils are not in the win now mode for the last 3+ years that’s why they like too see if Vinny and Eflin can reach their projection of at least a #3 given this duo has higher upside than Eickhoff. Even if both did not pitched as a #3 since they joined the Phillies, I cannot fault the FO for doing it. In my view, I already assigned Vinny to bullpen 2 years ago and I will trade Eflin — but I’m not a member of the FO.

    Franco may not be the worst link in the line up but he is the least to make the adjustment to succeed. You talk to coaches and players and they will tell you —- a players inability to adjust to the level of competition will be his end. Franco has been coached and given the chance to make the necessary adjustments (as the opposing pitchers adjust to attacking him) and Franco just can’t. It’s painful to watch Franco swing the bat.

  11. KK … Is it not painful to watch Herrera bat? He also has been coached, and given the chance to make adjustments. I’m not advocating keeping or trading either player. I’m only asking that people quit trying to find blame for the problem, and help fix it instead.

    1. Doobie’s batting is not as bad as Franco who pretzel’s himself everytime he swings the bat. Franco’s swing is really bad and it’s not even close. Even if we assume that Doobie’s swing is not ideal, he has great feel for contact and he doesn’t swing for the fences all the time. Doobie also knows how to work the pitch count and can recognize the pitches better than Franco, thus the higher BB%.

      Franco’s problem is not just the swing, it’s literally everything. Franco probably knows that, thus, he tap to the one tool that he is known – power! The problem is, if you cannot hit, you can tap that power.

    2. I’m the biggest fan of Odubel and yes, it’s hard for me to watch him right now. But he has a record of success (11.7 career WAR) which Franco has never had. So Odubel has some leash for him to figure it out, where as time has run out on Franco.

      1. Gurur….Doobie has a plus WAR over his career.
        But starting to think he is a streak hitter.
        Two months he is red-hot, and a month or so not so much.
        Over his career he has 21 months service time with the Phillies.
        I calculate he has 12 of those 21 as outstanding with plus peripherals…..7 with really sub-par performance and 2 with what i think are average replacement to somewhere between a 1WAR and 2WAR player’s metrics
        Not sure WAR actually and accurately reflects the production of a streak hitter.
        I just do not know if it can work that way.

        1. If Mike Trout has a 10 WAR season, you’re not going to say that he was red hot for 4 months and just ok for the other months. Every player is going to have ups and downs, even Trout. But in the end, he got his 10 WAR season and that’s what counts.

          1. I am not sure about that. I do not think WAR accounts for the net asset value of consistency over a 162 game season.

            1. In the end, if you have a player that had a 6 WAR season and a player with a 4 WAR season, and you had to choose one to take, you know which one you will take.

            2. yeah…I guess that would be about right.
              Though I am thinking wRC+ may give a better indication of a player’s worth thru the whole season.
              I am wondering if there are two players with an equal WAR, would that indicate also they have an equal wRC+?

  12. So, regarding the Machado trade market:

    Braves and Cardinals certainly can offer better prospects (especially pitching) to Baltimore but are they in financial position to re-sign him?

    Cubs and Yankees are 2 big market teams who certainly figure to be factors in the off season but don’t currently have the urgency to trade for Manny or the priority need over starting pitching.

    Dodgers are always a possible player for such an elite talent. But they tend to be stingy with prospects, especially for a rental of any magnitude.

    I can’t think of other clubs that stand out as possible destinations for him, all things considered.

    Phillies? I now tend to think they will bide their time with what they have. If Baltimore doesn’t receive a compelling offer for Machado as the deadline approaches, it could work in the Phillies favor. They might offer more in quantity of prospects, add a major league player in possible need of a change of scenery (hmm) and see what happens without feeling like they can’t go hard after him as a free agent.

    1. Braves won’t do it because they don’t want to burn prospects for what can only be a rental. Cardinals won’t do it for the same reason and because they are value oriented and won’t give him that contract.

      The others might be in play and even Seattle is a possibility.

    2. @8mark – all contending teams particularly the big market ones will check in on Machado come trade deadline since everybody knows that Machado will not sign LT with BAL and BAL will trade him,

      As I’ve been saying a for while now, economics will dictate Machado (or any player) trade value. Like you said, ATL and STL can offer prospects for Machado (talent-for-talent) but it’s not viable for them since they know they can’t sign him LT.

      Other GMs understand the value of cost controlled payroll and now holding their top prospects and what GM deviate from this is in a WIN-NOW mode and if they failed to win, they know they’re good as goner.

      Now, you have some GMs that are just hot in the trigger and as catch said – DiPoto can be that gunslinger. As we’ve seen in the past, Dipoto’s patience is thin. He will swing. But not sure how much ammunition he have to knock the Phillies out of the Machado race.

      1. “it’s not viable for them since they know they can’t sign him LT.”…why not Braves…their payroll sits at $118M now, only $23M more than the Phillies

        1. Braves will be interesting this off-season. They have very little committed payroll (Approx $37M) but they also have a number of existing players that will become FAs after the season so they have a bunch of holes to fill..

          1. I’m definitely interested to see if they will be players in the offseason. Historically, they haven’t had a large payroll (top 10) since the early 2000s

        2. @romus – do you think they can win a bidding war? The GM will most likely pursue Donaldson – cheaper and had previous relationship.

          1. Donaldson is probably on his downward slide
            Close to 30% K rate this season..
            injured on the DL, and when healthy, hitting well below what he is accustomed to.
            Will be 33 years old.
            Phillies would be able to get him at a very reasonable cost.

    3. I read an article this morning that suggested that the Phillies could have Brad Hand for Medina, Gamboa, and Muzziotti. I’d do it in a heartbeat. Would you?

      1. No. The Phils have Hunter and Neshek until next year, Bullpen is not the issue, it’s the usage. Develop Arano, Seranthony and Edgar Garcia as the high leverage guy – thrown in Kilome if they want. They don’t need Brad and his Hand.

        IMO, Medina, Gamboa and Muzziotti will be major leaguers.

        1. Agreed, Phillies need to use their resources (both Trade and $$$) to add position players, not bullpen pieces..

      2. Brad Hand is a lights out LH reliever. If this was the 2009 Phillies, I would do it. However, we are not an elite team so even though having Brad Hand would be nice, I don’t want to give up a top 100 prospect for him.

      3. @wawa – the article was written in the local San Diego paper. The writter is saying that the Padres can get a Andrew Miller-type from Brad Hand and for some reason link Hand to the Phillies.

        The Chapman and Miller trade are examples of teams overpaying since they are just one RP away to be WS contenders. The article is wrong in a lot of ways, The Phillies are not a Brad Hand away from WS and Brad Hand is not Andrew Miller. If I remember correctly, Brad Hand was DFAd by MIA years ago.

        This is similar if one local Phillies write about Cesar Hernandez and I’m sure the trade return he will be asking is ridiculously crazy — like what CWS got from Adam Eaton type.

  13. Anyone know the Pigs rotation? I’m looking to see who is likelyto get the start Saturday night for my first ever trip to Coca Cola park.

    1. De Los Santos, Liebrandt, Lively , Irvin and Anderson normally….but not sure if any are hurt now. Assume Saturday will be Anderson

        1. If I’m correct:

          WED = Lively
          THURS = Irvin
          FRI = Anderson
          SAT = Leibrandt or delos Santos or Anderson if they play a bullpen game in the next 3 days.

  14. My bold prediction for the trade deadline are:

    NYY = Michael Fullmer and JA Happ
    HOU = Kelvin Herrera
    WAS = Brach or Britton
    ATL = Moustakas
    BOS = Wilson Ramos
    CHC = Tyson Ross and Jake Diekman
    MIL = Chris Archer
    STL = no deal

    and the Phils…..acquire Manny Machado and Cole Hamels! Yay!

    MIA = will package Starlin Castro with JT Realmuto, thus, no trade until the off season.

      1. 8mark …would you do a Velásquez and Franco to the Yankees for Miguel Andujar ?

        1. You guys are funny. Andujar is 23 with a 891 OPS at 3B. He is making next to nothing. If I was the Yankees GM, I would laugh, then hang up the phone.

          1. Cashman wanted Velaquez in Dec 2015 and Klentak beat him to the punch dangling Giles
            Yankees wanted Franco for $95K but the Phillies offered $100K way back when..
            Yankees pitching , outside of Severino, is bordering on a cliff dive..
            I think they would entertain Velasquez…..but offer the surplus OFer Clint Frazier
            Thats when i would counter with Franco as added value.

            1. That was then, this is now.

              Franco has minimal value. He’s not even good enough to start. He can’t beat out JP!

              There are still serious doubts whether or not VV can stay healthy. And second, VV hasn’t been really good this year. He has 0.3 WAR, and 4.95 ERA. And he’s going to be pitching in the AL East? Against Boston? Yeah, pass.

      2. I don’t see SEA really contending but Dipoto will do 2-3 minor trades just to scratch the each. Possibly trade of scenario guys and some prospect swaps. I’m thinking of Shane Greene, Keon Kela. Dipoto is the type of GM that I can see trading for Matt Harvey from CIN.

        1. Matt Harvey has a 5 ERA for CIN. Not sure how much help he will be.

          He could probably pick him up in the offseason for a prove-it deal.

          1. He can prove it in San Diego – I don’t want him, his 92 MPH FB or his attitude. No way. Not with the pitching depth we have.

    1. I predict minor deal we get a older utility player for lively something like that. cause Sheldon is waiting until until until ,I don’t think he knows.

      1. rocco…that is so negative!
        He may have many irons in the fire and just waiting for the opportune time to strike.

        1. Guru will give roccom a run for the most negative person in this site. at least roccom expects something in return for Lively. Guru will probably burn the GM alive for accepting a scrub like Lively,

          1. That genuinely made me laugh. I’m just keeping it real. You guys are way too optimistic, or you just want to fleece the other GM. Let’s put it this way, next time you have a trade proposal, reverse it and see if you’re willing to take what you’re offering as the other GM. Then you ask yourself, do I really want to trade FOR Franco? Can I not get somebody better?

            1. that’s proven to be a futile exercise since most people tend to undervalue themselves. most consultants will tell you that you need to know what make the other party click, then push the appropriate buttons. if you are dealing with yourself, you will only end up losing unless you are dealing with your own destiny.

            2. in modern business management, business relationships are key. you will see a lot of people who are technically competent with all the degrees and awards but can’t get the decision making position since they are introvert or too stiff to build relationships.

              If the Phils want Realmuto, Klentak need to build relationship with Jeter. If Jeter believes that he is the best SS ever – tell him that. If Jeter likes a bottle of Chateau Margaux, give him that even if you don’t like wine. Don’t forget to build relationship the wife too if needed.

              I’ve seen a lot of negotiations completed and it has nothing to do with one person looking at it on the opposite side.

    2. Kuko, I can see it now….a late July afternoon after a myriad of rumors abound. Jon Heyman reports that finally Manny Machado is traded….to the Phillies in exchange for Maikel Franco, Enyel de los Santos, Franklyn Kilome, and Roman Quinn.

      1. 8mark…whew…I am glad you did not throw Pedro Florimon in on that package….that would have been a deal breaker for me! 🙂

        1. Hey I’m too much of a coward, Romus. Remember? (But okay, let’s throw in Valentin.)

    3. The Mets are now sellers too . Thor, Todd Frazier, Carrera, Bruce etc . Hey is Starlin Castro can play 3 Rd im in.

  15. Anyone see the baseball america transactions that has Harold Garcia signing with the Phillies? If you click on the link it displays the same Garcia that the team signed back in 2004 but has been out of affiliated ball since 2013. Is this really the same guy?!?!?

  16. Early All Star voting is in. Doobie at 9th in OF. No Cesar in Top 5 at 2B. I really don’t expect anyone except Nola to make it, but I thought Cesar would be in Top 5.

    1. matt13…..who would have thought Albies, Scooter Gennett and Andrubal Cabrera all would be having this type of seasons!
      I also thought Cesar would be up there…he does not have the name recognition however at this point of his career.

    2. Both Doobie and Cesar don’t have the mainstream appeal to get the votes — even in fantasy baseball, both are mostly waiver pick ups. All Star games are popularity contest so the Phillies fan really need to make some work to push Cesar and Doobie similar to what ATL is doing now and KC did 2-3 years ago.

  17. There are rumors that the Blue Jays are going to give Josh Donaldson a qualifying offer at the end of the season, even with him struggling.

    1. Wonder if that mysterious texter was Colangelo’s wife ? She’s doing other sports now ?

        1. Now you have me romus. Tim could be Mrs Colangelo. remember in her text she misspelled a lot of words.

  18. Tom Eshelman will be added in the 40-man although he is having a tough year.

    Elniery Garcia is pitching his way out of the organization. Him and Harold Arauz will be kicked out of the rotation soon.

    And who is his Luis Cedeno guy? He literally gave away Medina’s gem to his old team.

    1. Hoskins has become pull happy as has Kingery. When you’re going good you’re letting the ball travel and hitting balls hard to the opposite field.

    2. I think it’s nothing more than the long process of adjusting to major league pitching after it has adjusted to you. It can take a while before a good young player reaches a consistent level of performance. The pitching is just so good and every weakness is learned and exploited until the hitter adjusts.

  19. Other than Seranthony, who in the bullpen can be trusted? You can’t trust Neris, Garcia, Morgan. Leiter is the mop up guy. Hunter is getting better, Ramos is decent. Where’s Arano in all this? He should be pitching more.

  20. Well, I’ve never been a Garcia fan. Pshew!! (As we swallow our collective hearts) While I support Kapler in his first year as manager, he could have (and should have) let Nola finish the 7th. A little over management there. But hey, W is a W. Good thing Nola and Kingery showed up tonight. Otherwise, yeesh! That lineup….

  21. Garcia has never been a late ing pitcher because his command comes and goes. Kingery wow nice job. Yea the line up can’t hit a baseball. Flew 12 K’s against 1 of the worst pitching staff in baseball. I mean back to back wins with 4 hits in each game.
    Alf offense is going back words fast.
    Valinten needs to play some more maybe at 3rd .
    Hoskins needs to hit the baseball more .
    I always waited on trades but now the Phillies are in great position.
    Nats lost again to the he Yanks . Now is the time to buy bats .
    JP bat is way worse then Francos if he doesn’t walk and k’s all the time.

  22. Here are my trade deadline moves. #3 is a long shot but it offers the Phils best chance at Machado before the winter.

    1. to the Blue Jays Mickey Moniak and Maikel Franco for Josh Donaldson and J.A. Happ. Both incoming are off-season free agents but the Phils should have no problem signing either. If I saw Moniak as a future All Star, I wouldn’t do this deal but I don’t see it, so I would do it.

    2A. to the Rangers Adam Morgan, Yacksel Rios and Dylan Cozens for Cole Hamels and P Keone Kela

    or, if that can’t be be completed

    2B. to the Tigers Franklyn Kilome for Shane Greene.

    In Kela or Greene, I want someone who can assist in the closer role and save Dominguez from becoming burnt out.

    3. (again a long shot) to the Orioles Adonis Medina, Andrew Knapp, J.P. Crawford, Mitch Walding and Roman Quinn for Zach Britton, C Caleb Joseph, Manny Machado and OF Anthony Santander.

    On this board I expect a lot of resistance to the prospects being traded but I think the resulting team balances youth and vets, competes better in the near term and makes Philly a more attractive destination for free agents. This represents a lot of roster churn but the result is a team I’d go to war with and feel comfortable with through the 2019 season. The Phils could re-up Machado, Donaldson, Hamels, Britton and Happ within the $206 M luxury tax threshold for 2019. There wouldn’t be much space left over but there wouldn’t remain further glaring needs.

    Other than for Odubel Herrera, the Phils have no significant salary commitments past the 2020 season when Mike Trout can come on the free agent market. Obviously Machado, if signed would become another commitment and Nola figures to receive the payment of an ace. Arrieta and Santana come off the books and I wouldn’t commit to Hamels, Happ or Britton to deals past 2020. For Donaldson I’d offer a 2 year deal with vesting options for a third year based on performance criteria.

    1. a world where the Jays and Rangers would make those deals to the Phils would be a beautiful place.
      Alex Colome isnt necessarily a lockdown closer but he’s better than what we have, and Tampa pretty much gave him to Seattle (for two non top 30 prospects) and unloading some of Denard Span’s salary. Phil’s could have taken on all of Span’s contract this year and dumped him.

      1. There is no way the Jays or Rangers make those deals – why on earth would they agree to so little compensation for their best players?

    2. It’s been reported that the O’s are asking for young arms. We have plenty to choose from without giving up Sixto. A trade for Machado will unlikely include any other players/contract dumps from Baltimore since that would only diminish the already lessened return for him due to his being a rental.

      If the Phillies do acquire Manny by the deadline, the other shoe should be trading for a LHP. Happ or Hamels are reasonable targets. Toronto and Texas are both out of the playoff picture. And that trade should involve dealing from the middle infield and/or RF “depth”(logjams).

      1. A side note – Baltimore is a bad organization. I am almost counting on them boggling the Machado situation.

        1. 8mark…if the Phillies do not get Machado after this season…then wait and try for Arenado after 2019, who will be one of the hottest on the market.
          Only drawback…Scott Boras is his agent.

            1. 8mark….do not know.
              Boras does a lot of business with the Nationals.
              Other than Arrieta…who else is a Boras big ticket client on the Phillies?

          1. @romus – i’m almost certain that Arenado will be LAD-bound. The Phillies FO previous relationship with Machado gave them an intangible advantage over most FOs, they need to cash in on Machado. Arenado will be a tougher fight – there’s mutual interest between Arenado and LAD and $$ is not an issue.

            1. That is a possibility since he is from the West Coast.
              But have to see what his demands will be then, plus the Dodgers will be further up against the lux tax , more so than the Phillies since it appears Kershaw, Turner and Kenley Jansen will be hanging around for awhile and they will take up approx $75M alone….then you will have the back-end arb years with Seager and Bellinger who are both Boras clients.
              So they will have to maneuver to get him…and I can see him going in the range, or close to it , of Machado for what ever he signs for.

          2. Colorado has paid players in the past like Helton and Tulo. There’s no way Arenado is leaving Colorado.

            1. Do you want to live in COL over a sunny weather SoCal if the $$ are the same?!? COL cannot compete with LAD when it comes to financial muscle and $$ is the only reason Arenado will not leave a frozen wastle land.

              There’s a lot of reasons to leave Colorado unless you are a South Park guy.

            2. @ KuKo, I remember when Tulo got that crazy extension in 2010 (6 years, $120M). And Tulo is from California. Colorado has a history of giving their own players crazy money (Helton 9 years, $141.5M). And don’t underestimate how much Colorado inflates their stats. All the players who play there know it. Arenado’s home OPS this season is 200 points higher than on the road.

            3. @Guru – Tulo is a North Cali guy (probably grow up as SF giants fan) while Arenado is a true SoCal guy. I remember seeing him in an interview saying how big of a Dodger fan he is growing up.

              Also, the contract that Tulo signed is an extension and not a prototypical FA contract that LAD or any big market teams can out muscle everybody.

              That $120M/6 yrs contract is cheap and not crazy $$ so I’m not surprised that COL can afford it. Arenado will not command $120M — he will command north of $350M — do you honestly think, COL can dig deeper in their pockets?? $120M/$141M is not the same as $350M.

            4. KuKo……if the Rockies extend Arendao they better do it before next season…or he may pull a Machado on them.
              And Scott Boras is Arendao’s agent…not Paul Cohen who is Tulo’s agent.
              Seriously…..Scott Boras is going to agree to an extension when his client could be one of the biggest FA on the market after 2019!

            5. @romus – COL will take a queue on the Machado/Harper market. This is the reason why i think he will no longer be a Rockies soon. Whatever is the Machado/Harper price tag, that will be used by Boras as based to talk extension which I don’t see COL doing. COL will just trade and restock.

              Guru thinks that there’s no way Arenado will leave COL because COL had shown that they can pay $120M/$141M. We’ll see if COL can play the big boys game.

            6. @Kuko, that was $120M back in 2010 which was a crazy amount of money back then. I’m telling you, don’t discount the Rockies. They really haven’t lost any good hitter to FA in a long, long time.

    3. Klentak has a simple mind, those proposals have a lot of moving parts and it basically reinventing the whole team. i’ve seen these type of transactions but only in my dreams. Too complicated means to much loose ends to tie. That will make Klentak head explode.

      If the Phils will be buyers at the deadline, they will just do the following:

      1) Acquire a bat —- most likely Machado or Mous. TOR always pretend that they are contending so they will not sell.

      2) Acquire a veteran SP – will not target a specific player but I can see Klentak swoop in the last minute (like what he did for Arrieta) and buy low on veteran SP that will passed over. I still believe it’s going to be Cole Hamels because of the contact.

      3) Check in for a veteran RP – depending on the health of Neshek, Klentak might check the RP market. Not the Brad Hand, Britton or any top RP — just a RP that is analytically feasible.

      The Phillies don’t have a lot of high end prospects, and since most modern GMs not value cost controlled players, Klentak has all the reasons to hold Sixto, Medina and some of the top prospects unless they are acquiring a stud who is not a rental or any good young player with years of control.

      Doing business in sports have changed recently. Bad contracts, expiring contracts and cost controlled players became qualitatively valuable.

    4. I hope you’re joking, but there is absolutely zero chance of those trades happening. Not in any reality. You’re drastically overvaluing our prospects.

      1. “I hope you’re joking,”

        Why would I do that? This is not a comedy site.

        The names I’ve included are now appearing as leading candidates to be moved at the trade deadline. For players expected to be marketed who have value for a team with needs like the Phils. I’ve not proposed prying top up and coming talent (leave Machado out) from teams. Now if you said that the players under discussion represent excess value under existing contracts, I would respect that and see it as a point of reasonable discussion. But you don’t come close to that and dismiss these with your “zero chance” comment. I assume that if you had a basis to substantiate that assertion, you would have made it.

        1. The number of players you mentioned are just too much for 1 GM to do in a span of 1 week. Noting also that most, if not all, of these players require 40-man roster so some maneuvering in the roster needs to be decision to.

          The trade deadline is somehow similar to a Black Friday Sale. You will see a list of trade candidates ahead of time but most likely cannot get them until at certain point in time. Like the Black Friday mania, you will check and like a lot of things, but will end of just end up prioritizing the ones you want the most because GMs will not have time to check, chit chat and talk to all potential sellers.

          Unlike the offseason, the window in a trade deadline is short so GMs cannot wonder around and check the other bins. It’s either circle the 1-2 players that you want or check the clearance bins and look for good deals.

        2. ignoring your 2B — you’re proposing that the Phils will acquire a total of 8 rostered players and 6 of the possibly top trade candidates? never seen that happen before when a GM came and beat everybody else to acquire most of them top trade candidates without blowing its farm and surrendering any of their young studs —– wow, Klentak will win Executive of the Year OUTRIGHT!! and will be remembered as one of the greatest GM achievements of all time!!

          1. Klentak would be the greatest baseball GM ever. It wouldn’t even be close. We would sing stories about his theft 20 years later.

        3. I’ve already had this conversation already, most recently with Kuko. You’re offering B type prospects (not in the top 100) for elite talent. The only top prospect you’re including in any offer is Medina. It boggles the mind to think that you can get a decent player (let alone an elite player) for Franco, Moniak, Morgan, Rios, Cozens, Knapp, Walding. Seriously? The players that you just mentioned and obviously don’t want, other teams have similar players just like that. So why would the other teams want our junk? They have their own junk!

          1. Guru,you continually ignore the contract status of the players in question. If, as has been reported, Toronto is thinking of retaining Donaldson to make him a qualifying offer this off-season, that represents a substantial pay cut to his current salary so you’re looking at competing to beat the value of a comp pick.

            Happ, Hamels and Kela don’t currently fall into the category of elite talent. Britton may or may not be, we’ll soon see. I twice identified the Machado proposal as a long shot. It gets to be more of a long shot as the Phils drift towards .500.

            I would make the Rangers trade early, add Hamels to the rotation and begin the long-awaited move of Velasquez to the pen. If Hamels, with 20 teams on his no-trade list, wants to come to Philly, and as the Rangers have faded from contention, there is no reason to make this a deadline move.

            Then I’d try and reach terms with the Blue Jays. It’s hard to know what the state of Donaldson’s health will be. This proposal I made was made by a ‘buy low’ moment based on Donaldson’s recent health and performance.

            Almost every team will at least kick the tires on Machado and my proposal would go along with the Phils’ expression of interest. I wouldn’t over pay for Machado at this point since he doesn’t make the Phils a contender and they can circle back on him this winter.

  23. Why did Kaplar make the double switch last night if Ramos was only going to get 1 out?

    And Desmond was awful last night until Garcia who he was 4-9 off of. I still contend the 9th is a different animal. The senses are heightened. A good team who is behind is going to grind out AB’s

    You can’t send out mediocre in the 9th just because you’re past the middle of a line-up. These are still Major League Hitters.

    VV to the Pen promote Enyel. Move a Neris or a Garcia in a trade. Move Franco just to move him and we’ll roll with Valentin as the super utility for next month.

    1. Valentin is a leading candidate for the Rodney Dangerfield Award so far this year.

      1. I’ve been touting this guy since ST. He is good – in fact, it’s possible he’s better than Kingery or Crawford. Not likely – but certainly possible. He freaking needs to play – and I don’t care if it’s in the big leagues or AAA – he’s too young and good to sit on the bench. I am a big fan of this guy.

        1. Agree.
          PR guys are well trained and groomed thru all their academies and youth programs..

          1. And his father was a very good major league player and he was a fairly high draft pick. There’s a lot to like about him and I think he’s matured a lot as a person and a hitter – he’s become much stronger with a better stroke. If I were another team, he’s a guy I would target in a trade.

    2. I have always believed that the closer role is a different animal. Not everybody can do it.

      I think VV’s future is in the pen, but unfortunately, it’s not easy to shift somebody there who has never done it. It’s a different routine, different mindset. That said, I don’t think VV has shown the Phillies anything to believe that he can be a starter. He won’t be a starter next season.

  24. In the Machado trade market, teams need to have the following in place:

    ◇ A playoff contender in 2018

    ◇ The prospect depth to trade from without giving up top prospect(s)

    ◇ A big market club with the payroll/roster flexibility and financial resources to re-sign him in the FA market.

    ◇ A front office with patience to allow the market to wittle down until Baltimore has to take what they can get. The O’s have bungled this already by not moving Manny last winter. They have virtually no leverage.

    1. 8mark……the Os could maximize whatever leverage they have left, if they would only let interested clubs a small window of opportunity to negotiate with his agent and Machado….even if a long term contract cannot be reached, but still make a smaller return deal for Machado, they would have an idea what it would take and where to start the offering process in the off-season for him..

        1. 8nark…. GMs did in December….but Duqiuette and Angelos refused to give them that opportunity….why wouldn’t they still want to do it seven months later?

    2. @8mark – i posted this in the other thread. IMO, Klentak need to follow the strategy he did when he signed Jake Arrieta for the price that he wants.

      The market for Machado will obviously be big and BAL will command a lot since he’s a big time player. Klentak doesn’t need to be quick on the trigger, but rather, let the market develop to see what other teams will offer for Machado rather than trying to put himself in the shoe of the Angelos and decide what’s a fair deal (GMs will be shot if they do this exercise). Also keeping in mind what BAL wants (at least 2 controllable arms) and what BAL will get if they keep Machado (comp pick),

      Like what he did to Arrieta where he set a reasonable $ and contract years – he should do the same with the potential Machado trade. If Klentak think that a rental doesn’t worth a Top 10 prospects, then that’s fair and reasonable and a fact that I certainly agree.

      If Klentak thinks that the controllable arms that the Phils can manage to lose includes Pivetta, Vinny, Eickhoff, Anderson, Kilome, delos Santos, Eshelman, Lively, Irvin — then discuss the possibility of these names and see if Angelos likes them too. Add someone like Daulton Guthrie, Nick Maton or Arquimedes Gamboa just to sweeten the pot.

      If BAL said, that don’t offer me some scrubs, then turn around and walk away and look for other alternative like Mous, etc. because if BAL turned that down, a GM like Dipoto or Theo overpaid for a Machado rental.

      Overpayment in the likes of the Andrew Miller-Aroldis Chapman-Adam Eaton trades is not an option for Klentak.

    3. I agree with all your points. I’ve kept an eye on Peter Angelos and the Orioles from afar and I don’t rule out the possibility that Machado does not get traded and that the Orioles retain him and try to re-sign him in the off-season. It’s the baseball equivalent of the “Don’t trifle with me, I’m just crazy enough to ….” approach to foreign policy introduced under Richard Nixon and brought back off the shelf recently.

      1. It’s possible the old man takes his ball and goes home. A convalescent home. Scary if you’re an Orioles fan.

      2. Manny Machado is definitely being traded to someone in July. The Phillies most likely aren’t going to be that someone. This team isn’t going to win a WS (even pennant) with or w/o Machado. It would serve them better to wait the year out and just sign him as a FA (and I’ve been telling you that’s been the plan for 2+ years now). MM will most likely be dealt to a team like the Cubs or DBacks.

        Hang in there. Things are going to get wild this winter when the Phillies sign MM and add some LHP via free agency or trade market. I can see them as players for Yusei Kikuchi or Jay Happ as FA LHSPs and Zach Britton and Jake Diekman as LHRPs. Or … better yet … Instead of using my best prospects on a rental like MM, use them to make a run at a young, controllable LHP that I’ve been a huge fan of for two years now. I’m talking about Blake Snell. He goes completely under the radar because most people think of Chris Archer when discussing Rays pitchers. Snell won’t come cheap. He’s really, really good and is under team control until 2022. If Tampa made Snell available, I’d let them pick three of Adonis Medina/Enyel De Los Santos/ Alec Bohm/ Adam Haseley/ Jhailyn Ortiz and throw in a high end lottery ticket like a Luis Garcia or Jhordany Mezquita. All that might not even get you Snell.

        1. Hinkie….you forgot to mention the Phillies will hire that sushi chef, and that seals the Kikuchi coming to Philly deal! 🙂

          As far as Snell is concerned…he will definitely cost a part of the farm like you say, but may be worth the trade.

          1. Yes, Romus. This could be the year Andy MacPhail finally acts on my plan. Hiring Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto as the Phillies Director of Clubhouse Food Services could go a long way in luring Kikuchi to Philadelphia !!!

            1. Yes….i could not remember his name.
              Maybe they will also set up a shop right next to Bull’s BBQ in LF!
              Just avoid the blow fish.

            2. Let’s hope he doesn’t pull an Ohtani and play the east coast teams for fools.

          2. Amazing Snell is twenty and all ready up. Braves have a 20 yrs old almost pitched a no hitter against mets. and we got Promises.

            1. rocco…Snell is 25, and has had two previous years of really erratic pitching with very high BB rates and just a replacement pitcher.
              He finally bloomed this year….much like Pivetta, Velasquez and maybe Eflin are doing now..

        2. A trade for a legitimate stud or a controllable SP are the only valid reasons why Klentak should give up any of the Phils high end talents. Try to keep Sixto at all cost, he’s a premium talent that can legitimately help the Phils for a WS run.

          1. If Sixto continues to show promise while at the same time continues to show that he’s “fragile”, the FO would be wise to dangle him to see what kind of return he might bring. A big bat? An established TOR? Let’s not assume Sixto is on a definite path to stardom. And let’s not build any monuments to him that say DO NOT TOUCH. If he returns to health and sustains that for at least a year, than by all means build around him. But right now that’s a big IF.

        3. Hinkie – seen him pitch in spring training. I would take him over Archer all day long. He has also had a stupendous year so far and the Yankees are rumored to want him and no body wants to compare farm systems with what they could offer – that said, I am not sure Tampa would trade him to the Evil Empire since they are in a common division. He is superior to Archer.

        4. Hinkie I’m sorry but that trade would be an abomination if ever I saw one. Snell is a nice player who goes out every 5th day but he’s no Kershaw.

          DLS is going to be every bit as good as Snell I’m calling it and Bohm is going to be Jayson Werth.

          1. DMAR … strongly disagree. I think Snell is so good and so controllable/cheap that I would even consider a deal for him involving Sixto Sanchez (because that’s what it might take to outbid other teams). Snell is the most perfect fit for the Phillies. LH and just 25 YO. Yes, please !

    4. Peter Angelos only cares about putting people in seats. He’s an old school owner who knows that trading his golden goose will torpedo this season. Although he should already know the Orioles’ season is over.

      I give it 60-40 that he keeps Machado and lets him walk in the offseason.

      1. You are 100% correct. He screwed up massively by not trading him last summer when he had significantly more value but decided selling seats for a last place team was more important than starting rebuild.

  25. Romus I think we go for machado now, we offer Franco , kapler and klentak and worry about signing him later

  26. Let’s not forget THE PHILLIES didn’t bring in Santana , Arietta , Neshek, T Hunter in too go 500 . middleton in charge so let’s see what happens.

    1. They absolutely did Tim .500 is a marked improvement over 2017. I wish for one day we stop with the notion that we would trade any of our future for a rental or that we would get said rental for anything less than our future.

      How’s that….

      1. How the hell wants a rental . Theres alot of young players on the Block. You can’t have every single pitcher in the system on the 40 man roster . A major probelm is coming soon if enough of these pictures proform at a high level .

        1. The fact is, prospects fail at a crazy rate. When was the last time the Phillies had an abundance of home grown pitching? I’ll give you the quick answer, zero.

          1. Correct how many Pitchers will on the 40 ty ? How many will they lose to the minor league draft .
            How long do you give Pivetta and VV to figure it out ? Irvin and De los Santos can stay in AAA for now . Look at the Reading bunch the Lakewood rotation who are outstanding.
            The next week will be Interesting week to see who gets moved up .look at the last 2 wks the Phillies need bats bad .

            1. You’re freaking out because you’re afraid the Phillies will lose players in the Rule V draft? When was the last time Phillies lost anybody of significance? You need to take a deep breath and relax.

              The Phillies have enough players that they can DFA to create space on the 40 man roster. You don’t have to worry about that.

              And you know Cole Irvin still doesn’t have to be added to the 40 man roster until the end of 2019.

          2. Guru you like war stat the Phillies rotation is 3rd in all of baseball in war . The Phillies cant win with that then some as too move.

  27. Finally…Valentin to start tonite ilo of Doobie….he needs a recharge day i would think.

    1. Today romus you main man was asked if this team continues to not win, would you resign, He said I cant answer that, he is coming to philly, TROUT TROUT

  28. Crosscutters will open their 2018 short season this weekend. We’ve been talking about the rotations of LWD and CLW all year long but WIL might bring the next pitching gem in the farm.

    LHP Lindow, 19 yo, 6’3″
    RHP Morales, 18 yo, 6’4″
    LHP Silva, 19 yo, 6’2″
    RHP Marcelino, 21 yo, 6’3″
    LHP Mezquita, 20 yo, 6’1″

    We already know about Lindow, Morales and Mezquita with Marcelino and Silva as the dark horses. Marcelino is said to be throwing 95-98 this spring with SL and slow CB. Manuel Silva is my sleeper in this group with control and swing and miss that are work in progress. If i remember correctly, Silva can throw 92-95 from the left side.

    1. and once Eastman signed, he is expected to pitch for the Crosscutters too.

      1. @Matt – is it confirmed that Marcelino will be pitching exclusively from the pen? I thought he will be giving chance to start. WIL normally employ a 6-man rotation, right?

        1. with Colton Eastman expected to join the rotation bumping someone else

          1. Silva, Mezquita, Morales, and Lindow are locks, I could see another of Armas and Escorcia getting bumped for Jack Perkins or another college SP.

            1. No news if Perkins agree to sign yet. Possibly an overslot so the Phils are still working out the numbers.

          2. I’ve seen Gustavo “Dev Patel” Armas pitch, nice name but bad game. He will be booted out eventually.

            Juan Escorcia — mystery name. 22 yo dude with bad stats released by NYY in 2016 as per Milb. yeah, he might me booted out soon too.

  29. Just got home from the “Meet The Cutters” event in Williamsport. Got Pat Borders’ autograph on an 8/10 for my grandson. Some exciting names – Anton Kuznetsov, Jhordany Mezquita, Manny Silva, Ethan Lindow, Luis Rojas, Rafael Marchan, Jonathan Guzman. Of course there will be changes in about two weeks as draftees get assigned.

  30. Does anybody know what happened to Greg Pickett? I haven’t seen any injury or release news on him.

    1. He is alive and well, playing in games at the Complex in Clearwater. He disappeared for a short while and returned a short time later. No word on what if anything is wrong. I would expect him to go to Lakewood once he gets a clean bill of health (assuming it is a health issue that has him still here) and after a few competitive swings in a GCL game.

  31. Man, Pivetta is reverting back to the bad Nick Pivetta. He was really pitching around the Rockies and it came back to bite him in the azz. It also didn’t help that he served up some hanging breaking balls. The one he threw to Desmond was really bad. This is going to be his 4th consecutive non-quality start.

      1. If the Phillies are seeing what I’m seeing, it’s not good for JP. He’s trying to swing out of his shoes and his bat is getting slower and slower. And for some reason, he’s not laying off the high fastball.

        Kapler is rewarding Valentin for the last 2 days, and it’s Valentin’s chance to make some noise.

        1. Im not backing JP just saying he’s not going to sit on the bench long . The Phillies are going to find out what they have.

          1. I don’t think JP will be on the bench long either but he’s going to have to start showing something fast. He’s played in 51 games with a 628 career OPS.

            1. Cesar Hernandez in his first 100 games had an OPS of .624 so just maybe a little more patience is needed…

            2. @3up, It’s different now. The Phillies are on the rise and we can’t afford to wait for JP to break out. Back when Cesar joined in 2013, we were under .500 so we can give Cesar some leash. And there wasn’t anybody behind him pushing Cesar.

            3. Well of course they can afford to wait for JP to improve. They have no-one pushing for his job right now. it’s also very short-sighted for a team to abandon young players because they are almost ready to compete. It’s because of these young players that they are ready to compete.

              It’s been a long, painful rebuild. Abandoning it now when they are coming out the other side would be a colossal mistake…

  32. Fly into Philly tomorrow then over to Syracuse. Hope the pickup the grandkids and catch a game in Scranton before I fly back to west coast Wonder who the pigs will have pitching next week on wed?

  33. Ben Pelletier is also missing from Williamsport roster. He must be injured or sick. Kid had a good year in the GCL and is only 20. From what I saw of him in spring training he can hit but is a LF only type.

    1. Pelletier was en route to Williamsport Thursday night. He’ll be there in time for the opener Friday. Note that he was laid up with a hamstring and just got clearance to play late Thursday afternoon.

  34. Found this reported on Fangraphs just now:

    According to Neftali Ruiz of Desportes SIN, 18 of the top 20 J2 prospects have tested positively for banned substances. Also says the verbal contracts would be nullified. Wow!

  35. Last night, a very good hitting team, the Rockies, with a runner on and no outs, had the clean up hitter bunt against the shift. It turned into 5 runs after a hit past a drawn in IF, an opposite field 2B and an opposite field HR. That is how teams should hit. We never bunt against the shift. I simply don’t understand that approach for a team that struggles to score like we do. It is no longer a SSS. It is about time we did whatever we could to put runners on base and manufacture runs. I think the Rockies were rewarded last night by Baseball kharma because they played the correct way!

    1. Matt I remember yrs ago. Richie Hebner was playing for phillies. They put on a shift he bunted I think it was 4 times, for hits.

    2. matt13…Doobie and Cesar bunt….along with Kingery Not sure about JPC, but he should, even if there isn’t a shift againsy him.
      It works better for LHBs going down third base line than RHBs, whose shift is on the left side and a RHBer would have to go towards the second basemen’s area. Plus the loss od speed to first from the RHBer box.
      So other than Doobie and Cesar….the only other ones would be Williams and Santana, sometimes Knapp who could utilize it, whenever the shift is on them.

      1. You are right Romus, I just get so frustrated watching these ABs. I am hoping for a different approach.

  36. Velasquez 1st inning today – 3 up, 3 down…..
    17 pitches?!?!? Not gonna get it done deep into the game with that inefficiency. Sorry. Even when he’s effective, he labors most of the time.

      1. In any case, today is proof positive that VV could be lights out coming out of the pen as a long reliever. Nice job today but let’s maximize his talent in the right role.

        1. No, today is proof positive why VV should remain in the rotation because he has the ability to be a solid starting pitcher which would be maximizing his talent..

    1. Let’s face it, VV will never be a pitcher who will log a lot of innings. That’s just not his game right now. But I’m looking for something like 6 innings, sub 4 ERA. I still believe he’s going to the bullpen next season, but for now, he needs to keep the Phillies in games.

  37. Cesar has Kd twice so far today. I’m through talking about trading him because Cesar batting .258 with his swing and miss is useless as a lead off hitter. What would we get for him anyway. Really.

  38. Gabe Kapler’s obsession with hitting Rhys Hoskins in the 2-hole, is as maddening as was last year with Mack hitting Freddy in the 2-hole for most of the season.
    Rhys is slashing .149/.257/.299 from the 2-hole (105 PAs)
    From the 4-hole Rhys is slashing .303/.449/.515 in 127 PAs.
    And this manager is suppose to be analytically inclined!

      1. DMAR…today’s game is the rare exception for Rhys hitting in the 2-hole…..2Ks but a HR and double.
        But the majority of the 24 games he has hit there he has had very poor production.

  39. For all the talk of Odubel’s slump, has anybody besides me noticed that Cesar’s average has been steadily sliding and is now down below .258? He’s still walking, but the borderline all-star aura has taken a hit.

    1. The whole team is slumping at least if you watch a game once in a while. He still is getting on base. and working pitchers. but so many on here are blind to this kid.

  40. Holy cow, the Twins demoted struggling Miguel Sano to high-A! Obviously, I don’t think he’ll be there long but still.

    1. Something Klentak should have done with Franco two years ago or even last year when Franco had an option.
      Cardinals did it in the recent past with Wong….Marlins did it with Ozuna.
      Players came back stronger.
      This is something that the Phillies GM should entertain.

    2. Sounds like a message move to me. If it was just because he’s struggling he would be at AAA.

      1. Yes….message on his baseball shape also.
        They want him to go to Ft Myers…their Complex.
        Controlled surroundings with dorm living and prepared meals
        Understand they want him to shed the pounds and get back to his playing weight of 260 or something, the weight he was at before the shin injury and subsequent infection. They think he will be playing a lot better with less weight.

      1. I know a Twins fan he said Sano was heavier this yr. Kapler could get him into a program o lose some weight. He’s a least 260 so maybe however legit power and RF arm.

        1. I know a guy who sells water and pretzels under the platt bridge he says Franco for Sano should be a deal MK can get done….

            1. I doubt it, but I’d do it. Sano is a better talent than Franco, has had more success than Franco, is younger than Franco and has more upside. If Sano can get lean and healthy he has a chance to be an elite power hitter for years.

              I think it would take more – like Kilome and a current big league middle reliever, but I’d still consider doing it.

            2. No the last post wasn’t from me. Everyone on here has typo’s multiple times no body even says nothing.

          1. DMAR…thats funny.
            I am aware of that same guy.
            Pretzels do have that slight Philly aromatic flavoring of oil refinery burn-off on them.
            Combine the pretzel with yellow mustard and what a breakfast delicacy! 🙂

            1. LOL I was just having some fun with Tim. Notice Tim’s posts are quite coherent today.


            2. DMAR…when Tim takes his meds he is as good.as they come.
              it is only those middle of the night posts, when on the way back from the bathroom, he gets a Matt Klentak/ Gabe Kapler idea.

    1. Twins would laugh at that deal. Sano is a proven all-star player who needs motivation. Franco is a proven replacement level player…

  41. As we approach the trade deadline and promotions within the organization, I count 8 pitchers on the 40man roster who IMO can be either DFAd (w/little or no trade value) or *traded, and don’t necessarily figure in the future of this organization:

    *Drew Anderson
    Zac Curtis
    **Franklyn Kilome (for a high end talent in return)
    *Ben Lively
    Hoby Milner
    *Yacksel Rios
    *Jose Taveras
    Jake Thompson

    4 among the 40man position players:
    Mitch Walding
    *Dylan Cozens
    *Roman Quinn
    *Jesmuel Valentin

    That’s 4 DFA candidates and 12 potential trade pieces. Time for Klentak to maximize his assets and finish this rebuilding process.

    1. Luis Garcia and Hector Neris are the most likely to be traded even if the Phils are selling them low. Both Garcia and Neris have good stuff and enjoyed some MLB success that will make some team offer a trade to the Phils.

  42. I got to see a lot of Hinkies favorite left handed son Ian Snell last night as he navigated a tough Yankee’s LU. He’s got some stuff but man was he trying to nibble. You have to have secondary pitches that you can throw for strikes.

  43. De Los Santos, Kilome, Lively and Valentin for rental Machado. Too much? Too little?

    1. Or perhaps Medina instead of de Los Santos? (O’s reportedly want close to MLB ready prospects.)

      1. 8Mark the sooner Machado gets traded the more the value .it’s going to be a 4 month rental or a month rental. The Phillies won’t as of now do it. The Yanks and Boston watchout they have teams and prospects and money to throw around.

        1. If the Phillies had all the other parts of a championship team together and needed one final piece, the approach might be different. But they are still a ways away – by doing the deal you shed prospects and probably still have almost no chance to contend. Sounds like a lose-lose proposition to me.

          1. Catch, I do agree that we need offensive stability in RF and behind the plate. I’m of the mind that striking now would advance the process by the law of attraction.

            1. I’m not too worried about that. All of the agents for big league players know the Phillies are an up and coming team and are poised to take on big contracts. Believe me, the players and their agents know.

            2. My assumption is that we’ll be no worse off in the standings and within strike of a playoff berth. There are no juggernauts in the NL. If this was an AL team, I might be more inclined to punt and call it a season until the winter.

            3. Yeah, it’s true the NL isn’t strong this year. My concern is whether you can win the division. I hate throwing away too many assets on a WC bid.

        1. Can we all agree not to insult each other by throwing Meneses in a trade proposal for one of the best players in MLB? Even a rental. Please!

            1. Anyway, I don’t think the Orioles do that deal – they will get better offers than that. And I don’t like the idea of selling low on Valentin – seriously.

          1. Three starting pitchers and Valentin is too high for a rental. If De Los Santos has to be in the deal, take Kilome off the table. I subbed Meneses because he’s young, and controllable.

            1. Meneses is 26 and hasn’t been a prospect ever. No way the Orioles want him.

              You guys need to understand, you want controllable GOOD PLAYERS. Like I mentioned before, Franco and Knapp are controllable. But you guys want them traded yesterday.

            2. they are NOT GOOD. Franco is replacement level and Knapp has been a disaster. Who cares if they are traded at this point? The question is – who would want them?

            1. Because he’s 26 and barely a prospect. He has virtually no trade value. Other teams won’t want him.

  44. Anyway, Jim Salisbury said to “keep an on that one”, referring to the Phillies pursuing Mike Moustakas as a stop gap 3b until Manny arrived in ’19. Moose has a mutual option for next season if Machado goes elsewhere. But I also read that Atlanta is the most ideal fit for Moustakas. So, we’ll see….

      1. Donaldson’s health and propensity to be get hurt, plus his decline in production this season, give me pause. Especially at his age.

        1. He’s worth the gamble if the price isn’t that high. He’s been one of the best players in baseball for 5 years and he’s not that old. I’d be willing to gamble a little that he’s got a lot left in the tank.

    1. I think I mentioned Mous as the possibility but the Phils should not acquire any rental unless it’s Machado. No rental can make the Phils an instant contender. But getting Machado ahead of every team can give them an inside track to sign him in the off season.

      If no rental, then trade the extra controllable players for lottery picks (i.e. high upside prospects in Low A and below), IFA $$, change of scenery players, under performing young players with upside or comp pick.

  45. I’d say that Williams has won the RF job. One question answered. Velasquez won the right to stay in the rotation for the rest of the year. Another question answered. Seranthony has proven to be the most reliable bullpen arm (for the next 10 years). Unanswered questions include: Can Kapler fix Neris and Garcia? Can the Phillies hang tough for the next 2 weeks of a brutal schedule? Can the Phillies attendance reach 2,000,000? Can Klentak ease the IF and OF logjams at the deadline? Are the Phillies making a strong play for Brad Hand?

    1. Disagree. Nick Williams has played to a -.60 WAR – he’s been WORSE than a replacement player (ouch!). He, Altherr, Franco, and Knapp have no job security right now although for now he will take more of Altherr’s at bats.

      1. I actually think RF continues to be a straight platoon. It’s not like Williams is raking.

    2. Williams and Velasquez have earned their spot until they struggle again, from which neither is far removed. The rest of the season is way too long to project their security.

  46. With Soto, Eaton and Robles emerging as the Nats future OF, I wonder if Harper’s status changes, considering his relatively poor season and IF the team doesn’t keep pace for some reason as the summer goes on.

    1. the Nats already rolled the dice and showed their cards. The will try to win while Harper is around. This is the main reason why they committed big $$ to Scherzer and overpay for Adam Eaton.

      Robles is supposed to be their replacement for Harper, that’s why they are not giving him away in their recent trades. Juan Soto is just a revelation to them – which should lessen the impact of losing Harper.

      WAS will go all in this year!

  47. Just read Eric L of Fangraphs chat yesterday. He was asked about Kingery’s approach so far. Longenhagen responded saying he thinks he’ll be fine but doesn’t agree with the Phillies trying to “shoehorn” Kingery into the left side of the infield. I totally agree. Eric L also mentioned the Phillies defensive alignment as rather “cavalier”. I also think the moving parts aspect of the defense has had players’ heads disoriented if you ask me. I can’t wait until the roster logjams are settled. That’s been the most annoying part of tracking with Klentak and Kapler through this phase. It’s like we all know what the 2019 opening day lineup will look like but nobody, including Klentak and Kapler, knows how we get there from where it is now.

    1. Eric L comment on the Machado trade is priceless. The Phillies are almost in last place defensively for a reason . Almost everyone plays out of position .

      1. Tim…comes down to shortstop, 2nd base and catching.
        And they have been brutal in two of those three positions.
        No need to be specific on the positions,pretty obvious even to the Captain..
        What disappoints me is Santana at first……his negative WAR is well below Bell Votto, Rizzo and Goldey…..the four other first basemen last year who he was aligned with as a defensive gem.

        1. Could be the throws coming to him Santana has a good track history . Kingery not fair above avg at 2 nd base maybe CF too. Hua Actions are good at SS but this arm isn’t . Hoskins is ok at LF but really a 1st baseman . Catcher wow there both young. JP bat doesn’t play well at 3rd. His is one of the things the FO has to take care off . Imo

      2. I also think that’s part of the reason the are the worst defensive team in MLB when deploying a shift. The players are moving all over the IF and aren’t sure how exactly they should react in shift situations to balls hit between fielders, etc.

    2. while i appreciate the value of “flexibility” – baseball, IMO, is a sport that player’s routine is essential and that its core principles are hard to change. statistics are very useful in making decisions, but it can destroy the game if everything is replaced by numbers.

    3. And I would add that we should remember – regardless of where you might think Kingery is along his development path – they gave Kingery the extension, not Cesar. Right or wrong, they should have the conviction to put their actions behind their investment. And playing Kingery out of position and compromising his development at the major league level is at best a half measure, all because they don’t know what else to do with the incumbent 2bman who is not their future. If he was, where is his contract extension? This isn’t about arguing over Kingery vs Cesar. This is about being decisive in managing a big league roster. All I am seeing is lots of ambiguity.

      1. 8mark…..you make a very good poignant point.
        Cesar would have had an extension in hand by now, if the Phillies thought he was the future core player they want.
        He is controlled for the next two years at less than $10M AAV I would think….so he should be very attractive in that regards.

      2. Kapler’s postgame comments last night was evidence that the he’s not sure what to do with Kingery. Klentak has left him in a bind. And left us fans scratching our heads. It’s not that Kingery played poorly in the field last night. It’s that he’s been playing out of position for a while now. Managers and coaches always talk about putting their players in the best position to succeed. I would like to hear the explanation in this case from Klentak.

        1. This morning I thought it would be appropriate to put on my Abbott & Costello “Who’s On First?” tee shirt. I’m more confused than Lou was. Among the 8 positions, only Odubel Abreu and perhaps Jorge Alfaro are playing their future position. So yeah we may be farther away from contending than I thought.

  48. Nick Williams needs to stay in RF . I mean based on his first full season and last yrs season . He’s also a very good pitch hitter . Altherr as a longer track record and is hitting .183 with a much lower .ops he k rate is about 30%. Nick Williams has lowered his k% for last yr and increased his bb %. He’s learning he’s still young so . War is just like batting ave it can up or down as the season plays out.

    1. Williams and Altherr are both not doing very well. Williams has been a poor offensive and defensive player this year, but Altherr maybe has been worse. None has claimed the right to that job and both should play although Williams should probably get more ABs than before. Both jobs are in jeopardy as neither is playing anywhere close to MLB average. Because his average is low, Williams is doing worse at the plate than he did last year notwithstanding the slightly improved BB and K rates.

  49. Tim….your 6’11” boy is an official Jelly Green Giant…..

    2nd-rder Sean Hjelle signs w/@SFGiants for $1.5 million (pick 45 value = $1,587,600). Kentucky RHP, at 6-foot-11 would tie big lg record for tallest pitcher ever, low-90s fastball, knuckle-curve is best pitch, good body control. @MLBDraft

      1. Luckily, the Phillies signed Santana and Arrieta. Tim may have put his fist through his computer if the Giants picked Hjelle one spot ahead of the Phillies in the second round.
        BTW … if the Phillies had kept their second round pick, I would have drafted Jeremy Eierman or Austin Becker (who didn’t get drafted until day 3 and will pitch for Vanderbilt).

        1. I’ve been suspicious that Rocco and Romus are actually one and the same. Kind of like alter egos. Am I wrong?

          1. 8mark……we are two distinct beings.
            Rocco…bets he will run down Broad Street naked if he loses a bet…..I, however, will wear a speedo.

            1. And Romus looks good in a speedo since he lost that weight . That where he meet susan. what a women.

    1. I’m certain this is an imposter. Not the authentic/real deal Tim. The legit Tim would never use the phrase “small, small human being”. Sorry, you’ve been outed 🙂

          1. I know how to distinguish authentic Tim from imposter Tim.
            Each of you need to answer this question: Who was the starting catcher on the last Phillies team to win a WS ? In case both answers are the same … first Tim in is the real Phuture Phillies Tim.

      1. Hinkie I’ve come across many types of human beings in Security Good and bad .
        See the term ” Keyboard Cowboys ” is a sur for a people that like to hide behind a keyboard per say. See if I just stood around and let some one using my Id and didn’t do anything it would continue.
        By saying I’m not cool with it , they might end it .

        1. LOL !
          But … you didn’t answer the question. You, my friend, are the imposter.
          There is more to being Tim than just the name. You have to know how to mix things up. You are way too sophisticated. Sorry 😦

            1. Correct answer … but not answered the way the real Tim would answer it.
              Wait until the actual Tim answers and you’ll see the difference.

              I do give you mad props for this stunt, though. You just need to do a little more homework next time to capture the essence of the real Tim.

          1. I am so confused, wasn’t it ruiz?? Would the real tim please stand up. Remember yrs ago tv show. What my line.

          2. Ha I know what your were looking for Hinkie Cooch or Chooch . I prefer Carlos Joaquin ” Chooch ” Ruiz .

            1. DING ! DING !! DING !!!
              We found a winner !!!!!!!!
              You are the authentic Phuture Phillies Tim !!! The one and only !!!!

            2. Hinkie San Diego beating the Braves 7 to 3 . Mr Galvis goes 4 for 4 HR , 2 DB 4 RBI’ s.

  50. If the Phillies can get thru June with their heads a little above water….things get easier on their schedule in July…with games vs Mets, Reds, Pirates and Pads.
    Whereas the Braves’ schedule going into July…..Cardinals (3Away), Yankees (3Away), Brewers (4Away), Jays (2Home), Dbacks (3Home)…All -Star break…then Nats (Away) for three. That could be a good opportunity for the Phillies to make hay.

    1. And Romus, the timing couldn’t be better. Mid to late July, we nab Manny and make our run!

      Atlanta and Milwaukee can’t sustain their current level of play and will come back to earth. The Dodgers are rebounding from a sluggish start and remain the class of the NL west but they are not the team they’ve been, especially with Kershaw’s health in doubt. Dbacks are decent but are no match. The Cubs will be there but have questions on their roster. The Cards always seem to be playoff relevant but lack firepower. STL, CHI and MIL will beat each other up down the stretch. The Nats have experience but injuries and self-inflicted wounds have also haunted them. All the same, I’ll grant that the NL east is theirs otherwise.


    2. How many of the Braves Starting pitchers are on a ing count.I mean half there rotation is really young. Sanchez and McCarthy really swing man.

  51. My vote is that the Phillies do 2 things : never play the Brewers again ; bring Jimmy Rollins back to play shortstop. This is downright embarrassing….not once, but over and over and over again. Rocco, are you free to play SS if Jimmy says, no ????

  52. Irrespective of the offensive data and his OBP – I would be willing to bet that if the Phillies had kept Freddy they would have won at least 3/4 more MLB games than they have right now – but lost 7 more Iron Pig games for who they got for him. ????? Free Freddy ?

  53. Ru not a bad pt Freddy would have fit with the rotation defense. Freddy could have step into 3rd base let JP play SS . Kingery on the bench playing a couple days a WK.Freddy not hitting well but Jp isn’t hitting at all right now.
    De los Santos has to make the majors and proform . That’s what some fans don’t get . Trading prospect for a ML player is risky on the team recieving the prospect . There have to reach the major league level and proform. Most don’t or get hurt.
    The Galvis trade looks like a win for the Phillies . Still De los Santos has to proform .

  54. Opening night at Williamsport…3-2 Cutters win. 19 year old lefty Ethan Lindow started and went 5. He looked great until the 4th inning when State College got to him for two. But he came back with a strong 5th inning. Danny Mayer went 3 for 3 as the DH. Julio Francisco (another 19 year old) hit a 2 run shot in the 6th. And yet another 19 year old, Rafael Marchan went 2 for 4 and looked good defensively behind the plate. Got to briefly meet Peter Freund, the principal owner. Nice night for baseball.

  55. Starting to think, a supposedly ‘non-analytical’ guy like Joe Girardi would have been a better choice as manager.

    1. The problem starts higher up, Romus. Klentak would not have hired an ‘old school’ manager. In defense of Kapler, he talked to reporters after the game and I could see on his face, without saying as much, that he doesn’t know what to do with these young players out of position all because of the roster’s logjam.

        1. Girardi was not as non-analytical as you would think.
          Personally, I think Kapler pushed for Kngery on the 25 at the start because of his ST exploits. Klentak acquiescent.
          Guess it really doesn’t matter in the long run.
          If the team does not get Machado in July or the off-season and also the team continues to play like this into next year…Kap will be gone by July and Klentak maybe after the 2019 season.
          I assume Klentak will need to have an extension in hand after next year or its the long green mile, just like Ruben’s situation in 2014, since I think Klentak was hired on a five -year deal back in Oct 2015.

  56. I like this guy’s analysis of the Phillies game from another blog site:

    Yes, Kingery was God-awful. But there were other headline possibilities

    1. Arrieta is a very expensive mediocrity recently
    2. Hoskins makes Luzinski look like Baryshnikov as a left fielder
    3. Herrera has an apparent inexhaustible supply of brain farts.
    4. The term long reliever is an oxymoron for the Phillies. Our bullpen doesn’t last very long nor provide any relief.
    5. Our catchers play their position with a true sense of wonder and adventure.
    6. It must be wonderful to be a hitting coach for the Phillies. The expectations are so minimalist, and there are no apparent performance benchmarks.
    7. I was starting to yearn for Franco last night. Then he pinch-hit (or is it pinch-out).. I am cured.

    This team does more brain damage than the NFL.
    Posted by MardiGrasDeac

    1. Pretty good. No mention of the manager. Who is really brain dead. Franco really needs a change of scenery , I think this is the time to start seeing if we can move any pieces. I think the only untouchable on this team is Nola and Sir Anthony, I love Cesar but he will be 40 by the time klentak makes a move. I Like doobie. but wish he would get benched every time he makes a bone headed play. not praised. Really imo all the talk of a great farm system has gone down a lot. The people bought up like JP, Williams, Altheer, Alfaro .,Knapp,are terrible, jury is now out on Hopkins too along with Santana who . And not one hitter at triple a or double a . really sad right now.

      1. It’s been brought many times before – the Phillies farm system has a lot of “good” prospects, but no “elite” prospects (Sixto may be an exception). These “good” prospects turn into middling MLB players like Williams, Altheer, Knapp, etc. Seems to be especially true with the position players. It’s probably human nature, but IMO the majority on this site tends to overvalue the talent and potential in the Phillies farm system.

        1. This has been a gripe of mine for a while. That said, a lot of the pitching prospects are developing and turning into elite or near elite talent, but on the whole, I agree with you. A level prospects are where it’s at.

    2. … so … let’s take a closer look at who is available near the top of next year’s draft.

  57. Correct although Kingery starting to hit. He’s playing out of position although everyone is . Paging Matt Stairs please help I’ve never seen players swinging and missing so much.

  58. There’s no help in AAA either if the Phillies suffer any kind of injuries there screwed.

    1. BTW … a couple of things, Tim.

      1. Good idea to use your Penn Charter HS coach pic to sit next to your posts. It helps to separate you from the fake tim.

      2. After going back and looking at yesterday’s series of posts with you and imposter tim, I can now see I was the most confused poster to ever hit the pages of Phuture Phillies.

      3. Imposter tim has to get two thumbs up. When you posted, “I wih ew would have got Hejjele . I Thimk he is going to bee gdode.” I was 1000% certain you were the real Penn Charter teacher Tim !!! You were soooo good, I was actually accusing the real Tim of being a fake (sorry, Tim). Excellent work by you, imposter tim !!!

      1. What are you kidding me Hinkie lowest form of life. I wouldn’t do that to anyone trust me I have a real good I T guy . He already did me a big Favor.

  59. Idea: a bit radical but humor me.

    Offer Santana and half his contract (approx $25M) in a trade in order to free up 1b for Hoskins, the eventual occupant. Then move Cesar to LF. He is certainly capable and they’ve done way more radical things with this lineup. Slide Kingery and Crawford from ss-3b to 2b-ss. Acquire Moustakas in a trade. There. Your infield is set until next season when hopefully Manny arrives.

    1. Cesar was a nightmare in the outfield no arm , can’t track a ball . Santana was signed because he takes pitchers which does and walks which he does. His 10 HR leads the team . The teams pitch around Santana because no one else to behind him.
      Taking Franco out of the lineup and putting JP in limits who you put behind Santana. Moose isn’t a better hitter then Santana he’s just in a better lineup.

    2. That would be admitting the Santana signing was a disaster. They lost a 2nd round pick plus all kinds of slot and international money and then they trade Santana and pay half of his contract? That is not the Phillie way. The Phillie way is playing Santana every game for two years. Or until he drops dead.

  60. 8mark I Am so mad at middleton for his hire of klentak , I think with the young pitches we have its a do over. Everyone on this roster can go except Nola, Do you believe if they added Machado and harper they win the divison I don’t. There are no hitters. You cant have a guy like dooblie go months without hitting, its nuts. his slumps are too long.

    1. J, don’t get me started on Doobie Screwy Do. To answer your question, no we probably won’t win with Machado now but it sure as hell would be more fun to watch than the dreck we were served last night.

      1. It’s all right, Tim. I’m still certain you’re the real Tim. I’m talking about the Penn Charter picture Tim. But … just to make sure … please answer the following question again: Who was the starting catcher on the last Phillies’ team to a WS ?

        1. It’s me Hinkie Carlos Joaquin ” Chooch ” Ruiz . What’s with Penn Charter .Boys high or Malvern . Hinkie where’d you go too school.

          1. Again … that’s the right answer … but the real Tim wouldn’t answer that way.

            rocco said you are a teacher at Penn Charter. I figured he must know you personally. Maybe you taught his kids or something.

            1. Hinkie know people from your area . I believe 1 worked near you. They used to call the Vineland mall the Wild Wild West . It had a bad Rep .

    1. Yeah. That’s what I thought I remembered. You somehow know the poster formerly known as rocco (now known as j). I was pretty sure he said you taught his kid at Penn Charter.
      BTW … what’s the tuition like at Penn Charter, rocco … I mean j ?

    1. After last night’s debacle in old Pabst Blue Ribbon country….Sheldon may be thinking the Phillies could be an ideal fit for him.

        1. 8mark…yeah, too bold I am afraid.
          Maybe the Phillies just do not match up well with the Brewers….Brewers cannot touch the Cubs at all this year, and the Phillies play the Cubs close

    2. No, tim, I mean j, I mean roccom.

      Word is that he may get some swings in the GCL before going to Williamsport.

      The GCL kids haven’t been told which team they are on. Maybe after today’s game. And, the GCL West doesn’t have an MiLB team page yet. Wonder what they are waiting for.

      1. Like to see the Phillies add a team in the App Legue like the Yankees, who have three rookie teams.
        Phillies can bring over more kids from their DR Academy and get them stateside a year sooner.

      2. Got it Jim didn’t think he was smart enough to get second email account. When Hinkie and you were trying to stick up for the other tim that’s when I know who it was . When his IP address came up at Cheerleaders I ready knew . LoL

          1. I think he’s actually one poster with two different personalities. Sometimes he feels like rocco. Sometimes he feels like j. Either way, he doesn’t like capital letters.

            1. Does that mean if JRoc loses the bet with Romus there’s going to be two running down board st with Speedo’s on ick .

  61. Cashman looking to trade for pitching it appears…Phillies could help.
    He use to like Velásquez.
    Clint Frazier or Brandon Drury, or both would look good in the Philly lineup


    Add they keep adding int’l money….the Yankees traded minor-league RHP 23-year old reliever Chad Whitmer to the Brewers for international signing bonus pool money.
    This is exactly what Matt Klentak should be doing…oy vey!

    1. Romus … Klentak will announce a few deals for J2 dollars on July 3rd. That way, the money will go towards the next (Starlyn Castillo/Alexeis Azuaje) class. Remember, this team is already starting with a one million dollar J2 penalty for the Santana and Arrieta signings.
      BTW … I believe Jose Taveras has a good chance of being one of the players soon to be dealt for that international money.

      1. Hinkie….oh right, forgot.
        So in two weeks he should announce something.
        I know trades are made in increments of $250K segments so I would think some of their pitchers should net them $500K to $750K a piece..

    2. Yea I do a trade for Frazier and Drury the Yanks would want a ML pitcher or 2. I well heard they had Didi on the block. I think Pivetta ,VV, even Elfin would work . Not all 3 but maybe Pivetta ,DeLos Santos , and a lower level prospect.Frazier and Drury are really hitting the ball well In AAA and are only 25. Imo

      1. Not sure if NYY would do it even up, but I would do VV for Frazier in a New York minute. Add a second tier prospect if necessary.

    3. I would love to get a young bat. VV just is too wild for me. High pitch counts almost every game.

  62. Luis Garcia placed on 10day DL (wrist), Leiter optioned to AAA. Jake Thompson and Yacksel Rios called up.

  63. Does anyone really believe that we are going to give up on any of the SPs? I don’t. I think they have seen enough from VV, Pivetta and Eflin to let them continue to pitch the rest of the year. I don’t, however, think that Altherr, Williams or Franco have shown enough to not be included in a potential trade. Altherr has shown he can be a good extra OF, with excellent D. Williams is a competent PH, with some power, and Franco may give some other organization the hope that they can fix him. I think roccom gets his wish and Cesar stays at 2B. JP and Kingery play SS and 3B, and the jury is out on who plays where. And, in the event of a MM signing, one of them gets traded. What this adds up to, for me, is that I am disappointed in what I have seen so far. Hopefully, the rest of the year shows a lot of improvement, but the chances that everyone improves sufficiently is slim.

    1. Matt, you may be right. But the Phillies’ strength from a trade standpoint is pitching and little else. Yes Altherr, Williams, etc could be included in a trade but for what? The more urgent need is bats. If the FO decides to allow this current cast of position players to play it out this year then I don’t know what type of trade activity will take place, other than minor deals for international money or lottery tickets for the farm. I think Velasquez has more appeal because many believe he could be a valuable future piece out of the bullpen. We’ll see….

  64. 8mark, I agree with you. I just don’t see that type of trade this year. Going forward, it is the Pitching that, most probably, will need to be dealt to get what the Phils need. I just don’t see that happening in July.

  65. Any short of Sixto and Medina and Nola I’d do. Frazier and Drury don’t come along too often in a trade . I don’t it would happen but.

    1. Spell check really. anything short of Medina and NOLA ,Sixto I’d do. Frazier and Drury don’t come around in a trade to often . I doubt in would happen . That is what I typed .

      1. Tim this makes a lot of sense. You are related to Lou Costello from Abbott and Costello,

        1. I wish but there’s alot of Costello’s when the Irish branch came Ireland they took the Mc off the front of Costello . So McCostello is the Irish branch .

          The Italian branch is spelled Costelló .Frank Costello probably from that I did a small report on the Costello name when I was. Kid.
          The Cosello Irish Branch is Royal from records it’s pretty big name in Ireland .
          Happy Father’s day from the Costello’s to All ,it’s good to know how everyone one of our Fathers as lead us to where we are today .

          1. Mac Coisdealbha. Italian Costellos are actually rare and usually Costella or Castella. (I have Irish roots too).

  66. Tim reminds me of the movie. Johnny Dangerously when Michael Keaton says your murdering the English language. I don’t it would happen ???

  67. Eflin’s changeup has really developed nicely. He could be #3 pitcher because of it.

  68. Today reminds me of years ago, Fathers day laying on the floor with my two brothers and dad. Watching Jim Bunning pitching a perfect game. The only hard play I remember was a ball hit by Jessie Gondor and Tony Taylor made a great stop and just go him at first. Luck jessie was a catcher who couldn’t run. HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO EVERYONE.

    1. Yes..remember that day….I was in a pool and listening to th game on the radio…well before personal ear pluggies came in vogue.
      And yes Happy Fathers Day to all dads.

  69. I wasnt born yet man there was TV back then and swimming pools too. I mean I’ve heard stories of when my Dad walked 18 miles In 15 inches of Snow in Flip flops to get too school.

  70. Why was Maikel playing today? Because he has good numbers against Chase Anderson. And he makes Gabe look good by taking Anderson deep.

    1. Just when you think Neris has turned the corner, he gives up a 4 spot. Back to the 7th inning for you!

          1. Both the Home Runs where on 95 mph FB’s . His spitter is his out pitch throw it .

            1. The second Homerun was on a splitter that he hung.He cant control the splitter he stinks

            2. Nope my app on my phone both Home runs on FB.Neris FB is fat at times.

  71. See my post in the draft discussion about Williamsport. I see Alec Bohm on the same path as Adam Haseley – a few games in the GCL, in Williamsport for a month, ending in Lakewood this year. What happens from there depends on the Machado possibility. If they sign him and Manny plays SS, then Bohm is on the Nola track for 2019 – in Clearwater for a month, then up to Reading, ending the season with a September callup. (All providing he hits, of course). In the meantime, Franco is traded and JP gets the bulk of 3B playing time. Kingery continues as super-sub and Valentin in the second IF bench role. If MM wants 3B, then Bohm is on the slow track from A+ to AAA.

    1. I also think A-Aron is a sure trade piece along with a sorely needed bullpen cleanout. I’ve seen enough of Garcia and Neris. Ramos is mediocre at best, but maybe…nah, get rid of him too. None of them are good under pressure. Neris used to be, but those days are gone. Garcia never was, Strictly a middle innings guy.

  72. Hari Truthfully what do you get for Aaron Altheer, nothing. maybe a low a non prospect

    1. Bud, mainly you get a spot on the roster for another player. A class A minor leaguer is a realistic return for A-A.

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