Box Score Recap – 7/20/2017

Lehigh Valley crushed Durham in front of a lot of scouts.

Reading and Cole Irvin prevailed, Mitch Walding homered, as did rehabbing Howie Kendrick.  Jose Taveras was promoted from Clearwater.

Clearwater wasted a fine pitching effort by Edgar Garcia.

Lakewood split a double header.

Williamsport won with Kyle Young on the mound.  Colby Fitch hit his first professional home run.

The GCL Phillies couldn’t hold onto a 4-run lead.

Lehigh Valley (61-37)  beat Durhan, 12-6.

Jake Thompson (4-11, 5.36) pitched a solid game.  He went 7.0 innings and gave up just 3 hits and a walk.  He struck out 4 and gave up only 2 runs on a third inning home run. Colton Murray (7.00) gave up 4 runs in 1.0 inning.  Yacksel Rios (2.25) pitched a scoreless ninth.

Pedro Florimon (.292) went 3-4 with 2 solo HR (6) and 4 RBI.  J.P. Crawford (.221) went 3-5 with 2 runs scored and an RBI (39).  Logan Moore (.258) had 2 hits including a double.

Reading (53-42)  beat Erie, 6-3.

Cole Irvin (4-1, 3.18) struck out 10 in 6.1 innings.  He gave up just 2 runs on 6 hits and a walk.  Tom Windle (5.47) allowed an inherited runner to score and gave up a run of his own in 0.2 innings.  Austin Davis (3.00) and Victor Arano (2.61) pitched a scoreless inning each.  Arano got his 6th save.

Howie Kendrick started his rehab with a solo HR.  Mitch Walding (.240) went 2-4 with a double, HR (23), and 3 RBI (57).  Carlos Tocci (.315) went 3-4 with a double and scored 3 runs.  Angelo Mora (.299) went 2-4 with a double and RBI (35).

Clearwater (51-44)  lost to Dunedin, 2-1.

Edgar Garcia (2-4, 4.25) gave up 2 runs (only 1 ER) on 6 hits in 6.0 innings.  He walked NONE and struck out seven.  Tyler Gilbert (2.70) pitched 2 scoreless innings.  Trevor Bettencourt (3.00) pitched one scoreless.  The Threshers’ staff walked none the entire game.  The unearned run crossed the plate on a passed ball by Deivi Grullon (9).

Derek Campbell (.222) went 2-3 with a run scored, double and a walk.  Cornelius Randolph (.258) went 1-4.

The Threshers scored their run in the third inning on Emmanuel Marrero’s RBI double.  He was later picked off third to end the inning.  Randolph was at the plate with a 3-0 count and runners on the corners.

Randolph led off the next inning with a single and was later thrown out at the plate on Zach Green’s double to left field.  The play ended the inning.  Two good throws nailed him.  It wasn’t a very close play.

Garcia struck out the side in the first inning, a feat that included Bo Bichete and Vladimir Guerrero Jr., both swinging.  His FB sat 93-94 MPH.  He touched 95 once in the third, then went crazy in the fourth, touching 96 twice and 95 four times.  But the rest of the night he was solidly 93-94.  He pitched well most of the night, throwing 15 of 20 first pitch strikes in the first 5 innings.  Oddly, when he started all 4 batters with balls in the 6th, he had his best strike ratio, throwing 9 strikes on 13 pitches. For the night, he threw 93 pitches and 58 strikes.  The six innings was a career high.  He got 4 of his 5 swinging Ks with his highly regarded slider.  His 2 Ks looking came on his FB.

Lakewood (52-45)  split a double header with Rome, losing 3-1 and winning 2-0.

Game One:  Mauricio Llovera (1-1, 2.05) gave up 3 runs (2 ER) on 6 hits and 1 walk in 5.0 innings.  He struck out three.  Ismael Cabrera (3.79) pitched a scoreless inning.

Joey Wentz, the 2016 40th overall pick, (5-3, 2.65) held the BlueClaws to 1 run on 4 hits and a walk while striking out 8 in 6.0 innings.

Raul Rivas (.277) had 2 of the Claws 5 hits.  They scored their run on a first inning wild pitch.

Game Two:  Gustavo Armas (1-0, 0.00) started in place of announced starter Sixto Sanchez.  He held the Braves to 3 hits and 0 runs in 5.2 innings.  Will Hibbs (1.32) earned his 11th save with 1.1 perfect innings.

The BlueClaws scored in the first inning again on Darick Hall’s RBI single.  The scored again in the fifth on Raul Rivas SF.  Jesus Alastre (.387) went 2-3.  Mickey Moniak (.264) sat out the first game and went 1-3 with a walk in the second game.

Williamsport (16-12)  beat Batavia, 5-4.

Kyle Young (5-0, 1.59) pitched 5 innings and gave up 2 runs on 5 hits and a walk.  He struck out four.  Orestes Melendez (6.75) gave up 2 runs in one inning.  Kyle Dohy (5.40) pitched two scoreless innings.  Luis Ramirez (2.03) pitched one scoreless inning, struck out two, and got his 3rd save.  Young picked a runner off first.

Williamsport scored a run in the third on Adam Haseley’s RBI single.  They scored 4 in the fourth on Colby Fitch’s solo HR (1), Austin Listi’s 2-run double, and Nick Maton’s RBI single.

Fitch (.500) went 2-3 with his first HR and a walk.  Haseley (.292) went 1-4 with an RBI.

GCL Phillies (11-9)  lost to the GCL Braves, 7-5.

Jhordany Mezquita (0.00) gave up one unearned run on 2 hits and a walk in 4.0 innings.  He struck out six.  Victor Sobil (1-1, 5.27) gave up 6 runs in 3.0 innings.  Robinson Martinez  (3.68) pitched a scoreless inning.

The Phillies scored 2 runs in the first on Brayan Guzman’s RBI double and Edwin Rodriguez’ RBI ground out.  They scored 2 more in the second on bases loaded walks to Jonathan Guzman and Yahir Gurrola.  They tacked on a run in the sixth to stretch their lead to 5-1 on an error.

Gonzalez (.241) went 2-4 with 2 runs scored, a double, RBI, and walk.  Guzman (.322) went 1-2 with an RBI and 3 walks.  Kipp Moore (.231) went 0-1 with 2 walks and a HBP.  Danny Mayer had a single and was also hit by a pitch.

NOTE:  In the second inning, Kevin Markham and Kipp Moore advanced to second and third with two outs on the same pitch.  It was scored defensive indifference.  I don’t recall two runners advancing on the same pitch on DI, and NEVER so early in a game.

Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.


  • 7/20 – Phillies sent OF Howie Kendrick on a rehab assignment to Reading Fightin Phils
  • 7/20 – Jose Taveras assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 7/20 – Reading Fightin Phils placed RHP Miguel Nunez on the 7-day disabled list. Strained right shoulder
  • 7/20 – Reading Fightin Phils placed SS Jorge Flores on the temporarily inactive list
  • 7/20 – Gustavo Armas assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 7/20 – SS Dalton Guthrie assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 7/20 – 3B D.J. Stewart assigned to GCL Phillies
  • 7/19 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs released OF Osmel Aguila
  • 7/19 – SS Matt Williams assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 7/17 – Phillies signed free agent SS Matt Williams to a minor league contract
  • 7/19 – RHP Alex Garcia assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from GCL Phillies
  • 7/18 – Phillies activated RHP Vince Velasquez from the 10-day disabled list
  • 7/18 – Phillies optioned RHP Mark Leiter to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 7/18 – 3B Harold Martinez assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils
  • 7/18 – SS Jorge Flores assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 7/17 – Phillies activated 2B Cesar Hernandez from the 10-day disabled list.
  • 7/17 – Phillies placed RF Aaron Altherr on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to July 15, 2017. Strained right hamstring.
  • The organization’s rosters are up to date.

177 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 7/20/2017

  1. Hoskins is in a cold, dry place right now. In August he’s hitting .169/.246/.254 with 1 HR and 6 RBIs. Since the Future’s Game and even a little before, he’s been pretty bad. It’s time to break out of the slump and get back to playing ball.

    Has anyone else noticed that the Phillies section has become all about the minor league teams? It’s not even close to what this site provides but I guess the Phillies are so bad, their site is trying to show the future is coming. It’s right around the corner.

    1. ‘Hoskins is in a cold, dry place right now. In August he’s hitting .169/.246/.254 with 1 HR and 6 RBIs.’…..dang!
      ….lets hope the rest of his July is better than his August.

      1. Crap! Did I write August? I was on my way out the door for a nice little walk before the heat of the day comes on. Didn’t read what I wrote before I posted it.

          1. Yeah, my son bought a 1994 Ford Ranger that was on life support. Yesterday, he and I worked on it all afternoon and into the night. We were drenched by the time it was too dark to work on it anymore. Yeungling and a shower and off to bed to do it all again today.

            1. This is why you don’t call up a player right away. Hoskins needs to show he can work out of this long funk. Until then, I’ll be fine with Joseph

            2. @Mario, I’m pretty sure that Ford Ranger is a 6’4″ LHP out of Texas that Bellman has been working with. They’re focused on his mechanics. Baseball prospectus says that Ford has the potential to be a real sparkplug, and he throws some gas.

    2. bellman1,

      Hoskins is hitting the ball hard, often right at someone, often great plays by the defenders.Last night was an example. One caveat: I don’t watch many games on MiLB so my observations might not reflect.the total picture.

      1. I saw LHV play last Friday night and Hoskins looked really bad. Wasn’t really facing anything special either. Didn’t even make hard contact and had a big error. Granted, it was just one game

  2. Cavan Biggio, playing for Dunedin, was a 29th round pick of the Phils back in 2013. He elected to go to Notre Dame and was taken in the 5th round by Blue Jays. I wonder what the Phils offered back in 2013 versus the amount he got from the Blue Jays? Money is not the only thing and a Notre Dame education is special but if you want to be a ballplayer, what did he give up to wait 3 years?

    1. well, his dad made 82 million in his career- he got to go to Notre Dame for 3 years and got a 300k bonus from the Jays. I don’t see anything to question there.

    2. This is a strange question. Biggio made it very clear that he intended to attend Notre Dame. And it’s not like he’s the first kid to turn down a substantial bonus to go to college instead, and hope to be drafted again in 3 years. There were three of four other kids the Phillies drafted in 2017 who did the same thing.

    3. Biggio wanted to go to ND to play with his older brother there. As it turns out, Biggio never lived up to the lofty expectations in college most people set for him. That’s why he dropped to the fifth round.

  3. Saw Fitch play at the CWS (on TV) and last week in CT. He can be a sleeper.

    If Thompson can get his ERA under 5, it would be a good end to his season.

    1. He needs to move up a level asap! Haseley is in the right league right now. Struggling mightily.

  4. In the header, Jim mentioned “a lot of scouts” in attendance at the Pigs game. I didn’t see any elaboration further down in the recap. Anyone know?

    1. I was going to guess that maybe the Phillies are trying to trade somebody.

    2. I’d guess the scouts included many who are scouting Kendrick to see if he it fit enough to play MLB.

  5. Is Jhailyn Ortiz hurt? Another casualty of the bean ball parade going on in the NY-Penn league? Haven’t seen his name in the box scores last couple days.

  6. I didn’t realize what a great season Joey Wentz is having until looking at his numbers after seeing his name in the lakewood box score last night.

    His numbers as a 19 year old pitcher in the SAL are tremendous. It’s nice to see when a highly drafted prospect performs well so you don’t have to do the “he is young for his league” thing and the “he’s not a finished product” thing (both ridiculously obvious statements that are better left unsaid since they should just be assumed).

    He’s young for his league. And he’s performing well. What a combination

    1. Tommy, what’s your point? You mad he wasn’t picked by philly? He wasn’t there for their taking in round 2. Puk sucks also.

      1. Last start 1IP 5 ER 4 hit 2BB (ouch), but that’s ok guys, he struck out two guys.

      2. My point is that Wentz is having a great season. No conditions or qualifiers.

        Not sure what was confusing about my above post. I thought it was pretty straight forward…

          1. He pitched against Lakewood last night. That’s why I care at all about him. He’s having a great season, especially for a 19 year old in the SAL. It was a simple point. Not sure why that bothers you so much?

            1. 👍
              I’m pretty sure it’s fine to talk about opposing players the guy with troll in his name is living up to his billing

            2. I was at the game in Rome. Wentz was good and he looks the part. However, the Blueclaws swung at everything. He is supposed to have some control issues, especially with breaking stuff. I could see that. However, the Blueclaws struggled with him all night. I wish they would have worked counts more and waited for better pitches in zone.

            3. @troll but you troll him with Puk every time he post anything, for example today he never said anything about Puk today and you brought it up
              Why ?

    2. Yes, we get it. You didn’t want Moniak. So obviously any player the same age performing better is a clear sign of the mistake it was to take him….

        1. ok Guy84, would you rather have Carlos Tocci than AJ Puk?

          Let’c compare carlos tocci as a 19 year old in lakewood to mickey moniak as a 19 year old in lakewood:

          Carlos Tocci .321/.387/.423/.810 with 7.7 BB% and 11.9 K% and .375 wOBA

          Mickey Moniak .264/.319/.379/.697 with 6.1 BB% and 20.1 K% and .317 wOBA

          Carlos Tocci .300 vs righties and .365 vs lefties
          Mickey Moniak .282 vs righties and .213 vs lefties

          The consensus on Carlos Tocci on this website is that he a 5th OF at best in majors. I’m not a Tocci fan at all. I think he’s close to useless in the major leagues. Maybe a 5th OF for a couple pre-arb years. Maybe. Maybe a AAAA guy. Maybe…

          Not sure how we’e even arguing about Moniak being a disappointment still. Not that he’s a bust. Not that he sucks. It’s way too early to say anything even close to those things. But that he’s been a disappointment.

          If you’re not disappointed in Moniak’s performance this year then you are either lying to yourself or you are lying to everyone else on this website. FACT

          1. I’m disappointed, yes. But you just like to remind people why he was a bad pick. Why when you gloat about Puk, you don’t mention his horrible control issues? Just seems like you’d prefer to complain.

            1. I don’t like to complain. I like to put honest opinions out there. Not my problem that my honest opinion (which is rooted in fact by the way) is that Mickey Moniak has been a huge disappointment to me.

              JP crawford is having huge struggles in AAA and you wont see me calling him a bust or “preferring to complain” about him. Becasue I happen to think he is still going to be a fine major league SS and top of order hitter. This is based on many things, including me having seen him play live 10-15 times.

              I’ve seen Moniak twice so I dont have the same amount of up close knowledge on him….but I also have seen enough to be disappointed him.

              The fact you or anyone else takes offense to this or thinks I “prefer to complain” because of this opinion, is way out of my control….

          2. Hmmm….

            That Tocci/Moniak comparison just ticked up my worrimeter a bit. I still won’t get too concerned until Moniak gets to CLW.

            And I’m a Tocci fan myself – I’m okay with a singles hitting, top defensive 4th or 5th OF. However, a first overall pick has to bring more to the table than that.


            1. The Tocci/Moniak Comparison is worthless. You will find that most players will have a comparable minor leaguer who had similar numbers at the same age but didn’t pan out. Moniak’s body type is entirely different at age 19 and Tocci had also already played several professional seasons by then.

              In the end, I don’t care if someone doesn’t like the Moniak choice but there is really no reason to beat the dead horse over it, especially this early in his career..

            2. Solid point by 3up! I’d still rather have Tocci than Puk. TG – what are your thoughts on Puk’s control problems?

            3. Well guy84, if you’d rather have carlos tocci than AJ Puk, at least I now know that you’re not worth debating with.

              Thanks for clearing that up buddy

            4. And 3up3kkk i agree about beating a dead horse. It makes me wonder why you brought up Moniak in this conversation the first place….you know, since my original post was about Joey Wentz and YOU brought up Moniak.

              scroll up and check the records fella. And stop bringing up Moniak if you dont want to beat a dead horse. Have a nice day

            5. What is their to address?

              He has control issues. We can all look at his numbers and see that. Not sure what you mean I wont address them.

              Have fun with Carlos Tocci over Puk though. Good call.

            6. TG, I brought up Moniak because only an idiot would not understand why you referenced Wentz in the first place. Otherwise, there’s no reason to make a random reference about some other teams pitching prospect being 19 and playing well in the Sally league..

              But if you want to proclaim innocence on that, then my apologies for jumping to that conclusion and not realizing it was just an irrelevant comment about a player that has nothing to do with the Phillies…

              My bad..

            7. Did someone really say that they would rather have Tocci than Puk!? You might be the only person on the face of the earth to feel that way. I take that back, i’m sure that Tocci’s family feels that way too.

  7. I’m a big Taveras guy and am excited by his promotion to Reading. Let’s see how he goes there. Irvin is certainly doing well. Let’s keep moving our good pitching prospects up, slowly but steadily.

    1. It is good for him to be at a more age appropriate level, given he’s 23. I don’t think he has top shelf stuff, though. Am I mistaken?

  8. Kyle Young is the backwards man. You’d think a young, 7-footer would have tons of velocity and no control. He is just the opposite. If he could just tick up the heater a few mph we will be looking at a nice prospect. and an imposing one.

    1. Remember Chris Young of the Padres? Tall dude who didn’t light up the gun. He had a decent, unassuming career.

  9. JPC seems to be coming out of his funk.
    Comparing his overall metrics with JRolls does provide some hope.
    JPC:. as of 20 July 2017
    Total PAs in minors-1820…..K-13%….BB-13%…slash- 278/ .372/ .387

    Total PAs in minors-2541….K-11%….BB-9%…slash-.261/.328/.383
    TripleA- PAs-548……………..K-10%….BB-9%…slash-.272/.340/.455

    1. Correction on JPC:
      Total PAs in the minors is 2183 and a slash of 269/365/382…..K-14%….BB-13%

    2. Thanks, Romus.
      You know my favorite non argument is how the Phillies held down Howard and Utley too long (they really didn’t because they blocked and were in the minors for two years). You never hear that about J roll and he had by far one of the best careers for the Phillies. If JPC can be anything near JRoll minus 20 Homers a year, we will all be really happy.

      1. JRoll spent 5 years in the minors, and his numbers were just decent. If you look at when he was 19, he had a .659 OPS at Clearwater but he still got jumped to Reading the following year. That tells me that either Reading had nobody at SS or that the Phillies thought that mentally, he could handle the jump.

        Anyways, JRoll spent his 5 years in the minors, got a lot better once he hit 20, and rewarded the Phillies immensely for their patience.

        Crawford is in his 5th season. He was a lot better than Rollins when he was younger, that’s why JP was all over the prospect lists.

      1. I’m okay with that. Rest vs. being the announced starter then being rested seems a different approach.

        1. Except when you buy tickets in advance expecting him to pitch. Look, $10 is nothing but I get one chance every two years see Lakewood come to Rome. It sucked that Sixto didn’t pitch on schedule. Me and my boys were jazzed to see Sixto light it up…though Armas was terrific…we wanted to see the Phils best prospect. On week, stuff happens.

    1. He was pushed back so that he could pitch in front of Josh Norris of Baseball America this weekend. (I’m kidding. Not about Norris being in Charleston for the 4-game series, but about Sixto being pushed back for Norris.)

      1. jim, if you are still responding for the day – Am I going crazy or did I read somewhere that Sixto has an innings limit of 90 this year?

      2. Now that is logic and analysis that has kept me coming back to this site the last 8-9 years. 🙂

      3. A drive from ATL to Charleston is a pain.

        I’ll see Sixto next spring in Clearwater, I guess.

  10. Looks like Walding is heating up again. If he gets his average above .270 with 30 plus homers, he may make things interesting at third base.

          1. I’m just not sure the hit tool is really there and fear the power is largely a function of Reading. Having fun watching him there and hope he can bring the average up a bit through the rest of this season.

            1. I’m a fan of Walding too, but he definitely has some concerning home/road split:

              Home .256/..376/.720 for an ops of 1.096 (!)
              Away: .227/.304/.411 for an ops of .715

              Looking at it a bit deeper, he’s been rather average on the road. An ISO of .184 isn’t too bad. He’s just crushing the ball at home. He has more than twice as many homers in about 40 fewer ABs.

              I guess what it comes down to is that he is absolutely clobbering the ball at Reading, and doing okay when he’s away.


          2. The big question now is that Walding is turning 25 in September and will have 6 years of minor league experience. Do the Phillies protect him on the 40 man roster?

    1. I don’t think we’re haters if we question Tocci. His lack of power is a serious problem. I guess you’re hoping he becomes Ender Inciarte, but those guys don’t come around too often. And on this board, he has to be behind Altherr and Quinn at the minimum.

    2. everybody is on board with Tocci’s ability to hit (but without power) and MLB ready CF defense and most of the criticism against Tocci are valid. Some concerns, yes, but I don’t see any hating there.

      Maybe what Tommy Gun is doing against MickeyMo can be considered as hating – highlighting bad stats against Moniak and using another (and not comparable) player’s good stat to discredit Moniak.

      1. How is it hating if I put two guys numbers next to each other. From the same level. At the same age. It’s not like I cherry picked certain stats. Slash lines, L/R splits, BB%, K% and wOBA

        The numbers speak for themselves. Sorry it appears I hate Moniak because I’m disappointed in his performance. I thought he had a strong first season last year. This year has been very disappointing. I dont hate him.I root for him like every other phillies prospect. I would love for him to be a ML all star.

        Just because I didnt think he wasnt worth the first pick last year doesnt mean I hate him> he was clearly a top ten talent last year.

        And just becasue i dont sugar coat it and I’m not afraid to say his year has been really disappointing and even worrisome, that doesnt mean I’m a hater either

        It means I’m a realist

        1. We all know your position. You’re disappointed. We get it. But this is a Phillies board and I don’t want to hear about other team’s prospects. What’s done is done. You need to move on and stop patting yourself on the back.

          1. I’m just responding to other peoples posts about Moniak.

            3upkkk brought up Moniak, and I responded. I can’t help it if people engage me in conversations about Moniak. And if my opinion on him bothers people.

            This board is for discussing prospects. 3upkkk brought up Moniak and I discussed. And brought an interesting carlos tocci angle to the table.

            My bad if that comparison scares people….

          2. @tommy – i don’t think your concerns about Moniak that bothers people. it’s the rubbing of other 2016 draftees like Puk and Wentz to support your disappointment with Moniak is why others react. First, some think it’s irrelevant and second, this is a Phillies prospect site. you discuss non-Phillies prospects at times, but you make it a point when you want to vent your disappointment with Moniak.

            And going back to discuss the 1.1 pick, Puk has issues with control which is big red flag for Johnny A., and being a college player, it is unsure if Puk will agree to an underslot signing – remember the $$ saving from Moniak enabled the drafting of Gowdy, Stobbe, JoJo and Irvin who all signed above slot.

            1. what do you want me to address guy84? I dont understand your point.

              Puk has control issues. We all know that. We can all look at his numbers and see it. What is your point here? You are acting like I say Puk has great control or something.

          3. Didn’t know that this was Guru’s board, “I don’t want to hear about other team’s prospects”. sheesh.

        2. if you’re disappointed with Moniak, then state your case directly and focus of what concerns you. No need to throw in the Puk’s, Wentz, or any body from 2016 draft because you don’t like Moniak at 1.1 because that is irrelevant to Moniak as a prospect. Moniak is not a 1.1 pick and everybody knows that. The rationale to draft Moniak at 1.1 is reasonable including the risk-reward and the $$ involved. For the record, I don’t concur with Haseley at 1.8, Moniak at 1.1 and C at 1.10 but i already made peace with that.

          1. I didnt bring up AJ Puk. Other people brought him up today. I havent brought him up in weeks because of the “he’s not a phillies prospect and this board is to discuss phillies prospects” crowd. not sure what else to say.

            I mentioned Wentz was having a great season. That is all.

            Everyone elses need to proactively defend Moniak’s disappointing season is the real issue here.

            For the record I like the Hasely pick. And I like the Randolph pick.

            That doesnt fit the Tommy Gunn is a hater narrative though

          2. TG – you will rub it everyone’s face if….big if because it hasn’t happened much or really at all recently…Puk has a good game. That is all.

          1. Puk – TEX AA 0 WINS – 3 LOSSES 6.98 ERA OUCH! 19.1IP with 20 HIT given up, 12 BB OUCH, but its ok he has 21 S

  11. Edgar Garcia is my sleeper (pitching) in 2017 and my #28 pre-season. Like Pinto, I like pitchers who are aggressive and attack the strike zone with no hesitation. And also like Pinto, Edgar Garcia will be given opportunity to start but will end up in the bullpen as a high leverage arm with plus FB-SL combo. He’s probably opening eyes right now if he’s a full time RP, but it’s hard to question the Phils’ decision to continue the SP experiment and give Edgar Garcia opportunity to develop his CU.

    Looks like Sal A. found a niche in LA for pitching prospects with cool names that are hidden gems. Gustavo “Wild Thing” Armas falls in the current nice list of Sal’s pitching prospect with awesome names joining – Franklyn, Seranthony, Adonis, Sixto, Mauricio, Ranger and Jhordany. These group of young pitching prospects are not highly touted but displayed tremendous potential while moving up through the farm.

    Francisco Morales and Ed Garcia – may not fall under that list, but they also display good stuff and starting to be a good find for Sal A.’s team.

    1. We won’t know what we have in moniak for another two years people. I wish he had better numbers too but this was a projection pick. There were some high level, hof type people who loved moniak so I’m giving him some time. Until he grows into some size and real strength it’s anybody’s guess. We are a little too quick on the trigger

  12. Can we at least start half a hype on cole Irvin? Last years pick is pitching pretty well in a hitters league/park. I’ll say it again, better than Puk.

    1. I’ll hazard to say that Jojo and Irvin turn out be better SP than Puk, maybe even fanti and young too

      1. Ok. I was with you on the possibility of Irvin being better. Theres a good chance Puk flames out as a starter. We all know that.

        And JoJo, yeah I’ll give you him also. I love Romero so far.

        But youre getting crazy now with Fanti and Young. Could they end up better. Sure maybe i guess. No on one knows what going to happen.

        But to say cole irvin, jojo romero, kyle young and nick fanti are all going to be better than AJ Puk is a bit crazy no? What are the chances all of them even make it to majors?

        1. As starters, I would say the chances all 4 make it are 5%. As relievers, it’ll tick up a little more but not much more. I would be happy if one them stays as a starter and can give above average WAR. That’s a win.

        2. My argument being they look like potential starters, while Puk looks like a blow and go reliever. Maybe not a sexy but backend starters are more valuable

    2. Irvin is decent. However, he’s 23 already and likely to spend most of next year at Lehigh (if he progresses at Reading). And he’s likely still behind Eflin and maybe Mark Leiter in the pecking order. He’ll need to up his numbers if he wants an early call up.

        1. Sure, but I think Leiter opened on some eyes on the Phillies when he battled in those spot starts. He’s a #5 starter for sure, but you’re hoping that he can give the Phillies a chance to win and not get blown out. And in his last 3 starts, he gave the Phillies a chance. In comparison to Eflin’s last 3 starts, he did not give the Phillies a chance.

    3. LH is a big hole that left open since Cole left town so it’s easy to drool for every LH prospects that looks like the Phils let got away. while there’s no Hamels projecting out from the farm, Sal and Johnny did a good job of creating a pool of LH prospects (El Garcia, Irvin, JoJo, Fanti, Falter, Ranger, Young, Mezquita) that shows good ability to pitch despite the lack of pure stuff. In time, the approach of prioritizing command and control might turned out to be the better strategy since these LH prospects are showing good results.

  13. Am I wrong? Wasn’t Joey Wentz taken after Gowdy? And is Gowdy still in witness protection?

        1. No. Wentz has been GREAT so far. and Gowdy has thrown what, 8 innings in 2 years?

          Sorry for pointing out that Wentz is 19 and having great year in SAL.

          That offends you for some reason. It’s weird

          1. I think it’s valid a lot of people on this very site wanted wentz in the second round at 2:1 and when he was picked by the braves like a pick before I think a lot of folks were bummed.
            I don’t think you brought it up to rub anything in anyone’s face.
            I have noticed you stopped posting Puk, personally I’m glad they didn’t pick him, he wasn’t even the best pitcher on his team, and was worth a flyer in the middle of the first but not 1:1 that said the guy at 1:1 should excel and not to put any numbers on it, but there shouldn’t be a number red flags with him either

  14. Also, do you think it would have been better if Moniak had played this season in Williamsport? I know/think that Randolph jumped a league but maybe Moniak needed a year in low A.

    1. I thought Lakewood was the right assignment for Moniak coming into this season.

      But its obvious he is somewhat overmatched. He’s having a worse season than Carlos Tocci did at the same age in the same league. He can’t hit lefties. His slugging pct is way below .400. His K% is too high and his BB% is too low.

      There are a lot of red flags moving forward. Its a little scary that a #1 overall pick is performing like this.

      Whiffing on a #1 overall pick is not a good way to help your rebuild

      1. He is kind of like Puk – Puk isnt striking out as many batters as he should and he is walking more than a TOR arm should. Small world.

        1. man you’re obsessed with AJ Puk

          Its pretty weird.

          If I was going to defend AJ Puk I’d probably point out that you’re talking about his number in only 5 starts. And these 5 starts were his first ones at a new level after dominating the level before it.

          I would also point out that as much as he may be struggling in this extremely small sample size, he has struck out 21 batters in 19 innings, so I’m not sure where your idea that he’s not striking out enough guys comes from. Maybe do a little research on what good K numbers are because not shockingly, I dont think you know what you’re talking about.

          Have a good day TrollU

      2. We will see how Moniak does if he repeats Lakewood like Tocci was doing after his 3rd year in the system—Tocci had way more experience when you used that age 19 overview.

        1. Just to add Tocci and Ted Williams showed similar power profiles in their age 17 season.

      3. Tommy that was Tocci’s 3rd attempt at Lakewood and his fourth professional year. Four years of tutelage from professional coaches and focusing only on baseball as only a pro can and 2 full years at that level before achieving those numbers. Moniak was graduating high school last year worrying about history finals and prom.

        Tocci had 1,104 professional PAs prior to putting those numbers at 997 in Lakewood alone. Moniak had 194 in rookie ball. Really?

        They may be the same age in the comparison but it is intellectually dishonest on every other level.

    2. Probably wouldn’t have hurt. He hasn’t totally failed the challenge, but I do believe he would have excelled a bit more in WPT

    3. It would have set off some alarm bells if the 1st overall pick with an advanced hit tool didn’t start the year in full season ball. Obviously his numbers would be better, but it’s not like he’s been terrible in Lakewood. He should benefit from the challenge and playing all those extra games.

      1. Thank you, I’ll say it again. We have to give the kid time, that’s all I’m saying. I’m ok eating crow but not right away! And what about running naked if nick Williams is a ML? Shirt and socks please

    4. Lakewood was the correct assignment and he’s held his own in Low-A. Not sure how hitting better at Williamsport in SS ball would have been to his benefit. Like every other prospect, if he can’t handle some challenges then he’s never going to play in the majors.

      His only problem is being the #1 overall pick and the expectations associated. He is penalized for being picked first in a down year.

        1. He should be doing better. I’m glad we agree on something.

          So I just did a little research. I looked at all the #1 overall picks since 2000 that were high school hitters.

          There have been 8 of them (not including Moniak last year or Royce Lewis this year)

          I found 2 that had very similar struggles, having disappointing and worrisome first seasons in full season ball. Those two were Matt Bush and Tim Beckham. A guy that had to convert to pitcher to finally make majors and a backup infielder

          The other 6 all performed as you would expect the #1 overall pick to perform in their first full season. Those 6 were Adrian Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, Delmon Young, Justin Upton, Bryce Harper and Carlos Correa. 5 major league all stars and and a guy with a 10 year major league career

          Take what you want from the fact that high school hitters drafted #1 overall since 2000 that have good start to their careers overwhelmingly become good to great major players.

          #1 overall picks since 2000 that struggle and disappoint early to start their careers become backup infielders or switch to pitching to make majors

  15. after reading this board today im hoping Klentak pulls a trade this weekend just to give everyone a new topic to talk about.

    1. Calm before the storm. Read they may be quiet, but also read they have been poking around on cost controlled starters.So to make this Prospect related and not general discussion; what prospects would the Phillies give up?

    2. Read they are poking around on cost controlled starters. To make sure this stays prospect related; what prospects do you expect the Phillies to give up in trades?

      1. You mean the prospects that the Phillies will give up to facilitate a trade for say Yelich or Dee Gordon?

        Considering most of the high end prospects are in the lower levels, I’m thinking Sixto and Moniak will be the first 2 prospects asked for by GMs.

        1. Would be crazy to trade to sanchez

          I hate to call a minor leaguer untouchable but he may be it for the phillies

          unless hes in a package to bring back a mike trout, harper or machado

          not sure id give him up for anyone else

          1. There are two guys in the entire organization that are untouchable: Nola and Sanchez. Other guys would be difficult to let go (Franco, Kingery, Hoskins, Kilome, Medina, etc.) but I’m all ears on everyone else not named Nola or Sanchez.

        2. I can see the Phils going in 3 directions in dealing their upper minor prospects:

          #1 Consolidation – since 40-man spot is tight, the Phils might deal multiple B-level prospect in the 40-man for a A-level prospect or B-level cost controlled MLB player. This opens up some roster space and unclog certain positions down in the farm.

          #2 Change of Scenery type – either flipping some of the excess RHP or OF for other under performing prospects (i.e. Jake Thompson for Kyle Zimmer)

          #3 Filling a hole – the Phils has options in all positions but not all options are good (i.e. high leverage bullpen, power bat). Phils can flip 2-3 upper minor prospects for below the radar MLB that the Phillies are hoping to become a late bloomer (i.e. JD Martinez, JoeyBats, etc)

          I think the main consideration for the Phils to trade some of the upper minors prospects is to create roster space flexibility since there will be 5-10 prospects that the need to protect from Rule V this year. However, I will also not discount that the Phils will look to use the depth of the farm to acquire good talent. CF and RHP are the deepest position — so Moniak, Sixto, Kilome, Haseley, Gowdy will be asked if the Phils will acquire a good and cost controlled young MLB player with all star potential (i.e. Yelich). Sixto should be untouchable unless the Phils can acquire a young stud (i.e. Trout).

          1. 1) Almost never happens. The Phillies have never been able to consolidate prospects, and I don’t think I’ve seen any other team do it either. Any team would rather have an A type prospect than multiple B type prospects. A type prospects are hard to find.

            2) If you’re going for change of scenery trades, we’ve done it before (Golson for Mayberry). But the 40 man situation will still be unchanged.

            3) Below the radar trades? That’s hard to do. I don’t recall any Phillies trades like that. And if the below the radar trade guy bombs, it’ll make the GM look real bad because you’re trading guys close to the majors for a younger under performing guy.

            Either the Phillies trade some excess guys as throw-ins or we sell some guys for cash (i.e. Alec Asher). And if we lose guys in the Rule 5, so be it.

            1. Passive, lack of creativity and procastination — traits that i only expect from the fans since fans don’t have access to resources (i.e. scouting reports, check book, databases, etc), don’t have key relationships within the industry and don’t have pertinent information in making player decisions.

              if Klentak, a notoriously passive GM, thinks the same way – “yeah, that never happens”, “we did that, that didn’t work”, etc. — that’s explains why the team is one of the worst. The Front Office (or Executive Office) – is a brain trust of a company – it’s a place where success is the only acceptable word and excuses are career suicide – that’s everybody gets paid big time since they need to make things done rather than finding a way not to do it.

              ATL and SDP are making player moves left and right – while the Phils are almost stale and appears to head to another silent traded deadline.

              Selling/buying low is a 2-edge sword – it’s can make a GM look smart or look bad. Making a mistake is not the worst thing, getting paid but doing nothing is.

            2. KuKo….on one aspect, Atl and the Padres are currently in the penalty however with their exorbitant international price busting spending these last few years.
              So they will be doing a lot of future maneuvering thru trades and the Rule 4.

            3. KuKo, I’m just telling you how it is. You can rag on the Phillies FO all you want. And for the record, the Padres and the Braves have not done any of those trades that you mentioned. They’re just tanking, trading veterans for prospects.

    3. guy84 … what prospect(s) could be traded depends on who they’re getting in return. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if a guy mentioned earlier in this thread is at the top of the list of guys who could be dealt. Jose Taveras needs to be 40-man protected. In addition, his stats are greater than his stuff. Lastly, RHP is a position of strength for the Phillies. Taveras is behind Sixto Sanchez, Franklyn Kilome, Drew Anderson, Adonis Medina, Zach Eflin, Seranthonty Dominguez, and Kevin Gowdy (off the top of my head).

      1. Perhaps that was the reasoning for his promotion to Reading? Allows him to showcase his stuff against a bit tougher competition. In ref to Taveras.

        1. Tocci and Taveras are prime trade candidates. Tocci will be a FA after this year so he will be in a 40-man roster – Phils or other team. I always see Taveras as a middle reliever, potentially a long man. Taveras can be a Rule V casualty if not traded/protected.

    1. Martinez is 27 yo and a FA after this year. No prospect is occupying 3B in LHV – it’s a natural move since Walding mans 3B in REA.

  16. Hinkie’s guy – Tyler O’Neal traded to the Cards for LHP Marco Gonzales

    1. Actually, Tyler O’Neill is Tim’s guy. I love Seattle’s James Paxton, and proposed a trade (last offseason) that would have featured Odubel Hererra and a pitching prospect for Paxton. Tim used O’Neill as a reason the Mariners wouldn’t need OH. I said O’Neill may be LF-er, but he’ll most likely end up DH. Obviously the Cardinals believe he can play a corner OF.

      1. yeah, i remember that Paxton for Doobie swap which got expanded to Paxton + O’Neill for Doobie + Knapp swap.


    Joey Wentz is being discussed because I saw fit to post the line of an opposing pitcher I admired prior to the 2016 draft. There was nothing wrong with TG’s comment on Wentz. Although TG’s “He’s young for his league. And he’s performing well. What a combination” was possibly a veiled attempt to goad the TG haters and you fell for it.

    But I opened the door for Wentz talk. If you have a problem with it take it up with me via e-mail, not with a long-time reader and commenter.

    Furthermore, MM was selected 1:1, but we all knew that he was not the BPA but a really good prospect who would accept less than slot, allowing the Phillies to lure other HS players with the dollars saved. They used the savings to go over slot to sign KG, CS, JS,and KY, and to sign JM and AB (at full slot at 12 and 13), away from college commitments – as well as to be able to go over slot to sign juniors Romero and Irvin. So, when evaluating MM, I think we need to take this into consideration. The same should be considered when defending him. The circumstances surrounding a draft without a “Harper” or “Strasburg” need to be remembered when discussing the draft. Stop expecting him to be the best player from the draft, and stop defending him as such.

    Now, about Puk. I live in Florida. A lot of Gators baseball games are televised during the season. So, I saw a lot of Puk last spring. I didn’t like what I saw. He wasn’t even the best pitcher on his team, IMO. It’s really hard to evaluate a guy on TV, so I didn’t bother posting my concerns last year. But, I’m glad they didn’t draft Puk. I’m also glad they didn’t draft Groome. And, I’m also glad they didn’t draft Pint (but a little less so). Different reasons for each. Shoot, I thought Wentz might be the better pitcher in his state (v. Pint).

    Remember, ALL commentary is welcome here EXCEPT for personal attacks.

    And, finally, I misled you about my reading the comments. Obviously. But, I did postpone reading them until after I finished each days reports. That way, I didn’t get too upset by the recent trend toward negativity and personal attacks. At 3:00AM, I felt it was too late to comment or delete. But, we got rained out today, and I read your stuff early. SOS.

    Why don’t you spend time speculating on Kilome being pushed back. Or Sanchez being skipped. What about the likely corresponding move to Taveras’ promotion. Who takes his place in Clearwater? Could it be Sanchez? Is that why he was “skipped”? Medina? Fanti? Does Hall move up? What does the acquisition of SS Matt Williams mean? What about Elniery Garcia? No questions about him? (BTW, he’s working out at the Complex in Clearwater.) How about Deivi Grullon? No worries? Ninth passed ball last night. Seems like a lot for a “defense” first catcher. Jan Hernandez getting reps in RF, necessity or position change? (ed. note, IMO: “position change” = end of a long third base experiment, but “necessity” reveals the Phillies remaining 2017 season plan for lower level outfield prospects.)

    Seems like there could be so many other interesting discussions here. Not just the same old s…

    1. Oh, and this. Kevin Gowdy is not in witness protection. Regular readers know that he is injured. I reported it here. I also posted a link to an interview that Mitch Rupert conducted with Joe Jordan that discussed Gowdy’s injury/rehab. And at least one other reader posted the same interview.

      No need for snarky comments.

    2. Good to read Elniery is coming along.
      Just four months ago I had him pegged as the best LHP in the system….boy how that has all changed now with all the lefties doing so well now!
      And Jan Hernandez to RF…..still wondering if Jose Pujols will be given a break, the high inordinate amount of Ks could be a real blow to the confidence….wish they will give him a try off the mound in the FIL to see what he could do.

    3. I totally understand the Moniak description. But fans are a little impatient, especially since he was a player that was scouted multiple times by Matt Klentak, Pat Gillick, Charlie Manuel, and the West Coast scouts. So the inability to hit LHP on a consistent basis is troubling, especially since Phillies management made his HS conference out to be the best in the United States ( their description).

    4. That was a mouthful, Jim. Great post! And thanks for lending some perspective.

      …so why did they acquire SS Matt Williams???

      Prediction: #66 Sixto Sanchez will take the mound as the 2020 opening day starter. (After being called up in August ’19)

      1. I don’t want to wait that long 🙂
        But 2019 sounds about right. He’s going to be pretty special if he keeps it up.

  18. Assuming they do try to get an impact bat like Stanton or a controllable young arm like Cole, who are your untouchable propspects?

    1. Sixto
    2. Kingery

    …and I’m out.


    1. if the return is a stud (I.e. Trout, Machado) nobody is untouchable across all levels. the phils will try to avoid both trading Moniak and Sixto (unless it’s for a stud like Trout) but rather utilize the depth in the farm.

      i agree with you that Sixto, Kingery are the possible untouchables in the minors and Nola in the majors.

    2. My list, of two, includes Sixto and Nola. I’d hate to flip Kingery but we do have org depth at 2b so his departure, as unpleasant as it would be, is on the table for me ( but it’ll be costly).

  19. Kim, I am with you. Haesley is on my list but can’t be traded yet. I am not in on Stanton, but would love Cole.

    1. matt13….I might add JPC to that list…..he will drive the bus someday….he will be the Phillies version of Jeter.

      1. The thing that concerns me is why have scouts been calling his D into question now? Apparently its been called average at best but closer to below average, and that’s a bunch of scouts, not just 1 or 2.

  20. I made the “witness protection” remark about Gowdy. I was not trying to be snarky, but instead humorous. Hadn’t heard mention of his injury rehab in awhile so I was just asking (in what turned out to be NOT funny). My apologies to the boss man.

    Now, with that out of the way, what do you think of the possibility that the A’s would trade Gray to the Phils? They are always looking for controllable major leaguers and almost ready minor leaguers. Guys like Joseph, Hernandez, Lively, etc.

    1. Gray only has 2 years of control after this, right? that seems too short. Quintana interested me because of the 3 years, plus a lefty to go with all the righties, but 3 years seems like the lowest number of years before FA of a pitcher they should be looking to trade prospects for.

    2. You’re lowballing the A’s if you think Joseph, Hernandez, Lively, etc are going to get it done. Sonny Gray is a decent pitcher. At least Adonis Medina and Kilome to start.

      Let’s put it this way, if the roles were reversed and some team asked about Nola, you would be asking the moon, not some players like Joseph, Hernandez, Lively.

      If you know those players aren’t good, then the other team knows that too. They have scouts also. They don’t want our junk, same as we don’t other team’s junk.

  21. This little tidbit from MLBTR is interesting….since Rutherford and Moniak have been linked and compared together since their HS days in southern California up thru their the 2016 draft.
    “……..Blake Rutherford, the outfield prospect who headlined the minor league package sent to Chicago, received less-than-stellar reviews from the five executives, who questioned Rutherford’s power potential and his ability to stay as a center fielder. One NL executive felt the Yankees may have sold high on Rutherford “when the buzz was still good” about his potential. Incidentally, Sherman reports that Rutherford was also part of the Yankees’ offer to the White Sox for Quintana.”

  22. I never saw Moniak play. I just don’t get how people are down on him so early. He didn’t pick himself number one. They saw something in this kid. If he develops great,. But to jump on a young kid in his first full season of minor league ball. facing better than he has seen. Is IMO crazy.

    1. No, you are not crazy…quite sane in fact. The kid is 19. He’s very athletic but can be petulant at times (probably because he expects so much from himself) which I’m fine with and he’ll likely grow out of it as he mature. He has a fabulous swing and runs very well (not elite). Watching him play, you can sense a high baseball IQ and that he expects to succeed more often than not. He appears to be a nice young man as I’ve personally witnessed him pleasantly sign a mountain of crap as he prepares for a game. I’ve only seen a handful of at bats against LHP and he does struggle a little. It’s not so bad that he will never be able to hit lefties satisfactorily. It just may take some time. He has a fair body which will fill out in time. He’s young!

      It’s a shame in some was that he #1. Selected in any other slot and the narrative would change, perhaps drastically. The kids like to play ball. He leads on the field. I saw him get along with everyone in dugout. Via interviews and articles, he is articulate and thoughtful. He comes from a solid home and upbringing.

      We just need to be patient (which is hard, I know). He has stuff to work on – hitting LHP, base stealing, identifying off speed pitches, etc. He will get there…just give him a few years. Im a fan.

Comments are closed.