Box Score Recap – 8/26/2014

Maikel Franco again – grand slam on his 22nd birthday. He’s the King of August this year. Mike Adams worked a rehab inning for Lehigh Valley. So that’s something. Sounds like Kelly Dugan is out for the rest of the year with a broken bone in his foot. Bummer. Seven shutout innings for Ryan O’Sullivan. He’s done alright as a starter. We’ll see what they let him do in the AFL – he may be innings limited, but if they really want to see how he handles a good roster the second time through, starting him there would be a way to do it. Brian Pointer was 2-4 for CLR. Dylan Cozens hit his 16th home run of the year. Playing half his games in that Lakewood hitting environment, that’s pretty good.

Seven Crosscutters had multi-hit games, led by Jia Tromp’s 3-4 with a double and a walk. Cord Sandberg took the collar. 0-6. A good outing there from Feliberto Sanchez. 7H 0BB 5K in 5.2 scoreless IP. And nice work by two NDFAs for GCL – Jason Zgardowski and Josh Taylor combined to allow just 1R 5H 2BB and 13Ks in beating the Yankees1 squad to come within 1 game of a first place tie. Two games remaining in that league.

And Arizona Fall League Rosters were announced yesterday. The Phillies have six guys on the list, with one pitcher to be determined. Roman Quinn and Ethan Stewart make up the A ball contingent, with Ryan O’Sullivan, Colton Murray, Nefi Ogando and Logan Moore from AA. No AAA guys were announced, but I’m guessing you could see Ethan Martin from the Pigs, or Seth Rosin from Reading. Matt suggested Austin Wright on Twitter yesterday, and that could be a possibility, too, I suppose, or someone seen as less prospecty like Mike Nesseth or Tyler Knigge. Either way, Quinn’s the headline, and getting Ogando is interesting because it means his Dom Rep Winter team had to allow him to go to AFL – they have right of refusal.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.

8-26-14 boxscores

86 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/26/2014

  1. But by all means Ruben, refrain from calling up Franco so Howard can continue to flail around in the batters box

    1. Again, Franco’s value is unlimited at 3rd and very limited at 1B. Dont ruin Franco because of a dislike of another player. Franco should not move from 3rd base.

      1. I don’t think your math is correct. Franco will see a value drop moving from 3rd to 1st. But, it won’t be “Unlimited” to “Very limited”.

        1. I would agree that “unlimited” versus “very limited” is an exaggeration – but the difference in positional value is indeed quite high – about 1.5 WAR per year.

          1. Right, assuming average defence at each position. Often a guy who can play third would be an above-average defender at first, which would reduce the value difference a bit, but this may not be the case for Franco because he doesn’t have great range. Most of his defensive value at third comes from his arm, which wouldn’t make a difference at first.

          2. Yes. So, let’s say we put Franco at third base, you leave Howard at first and Asche to the bench. Franco puts up 4.5 WAR, Howard is -.5 and Asche is zero due to being a bench guy.

            I’m ok taking the WAR hit to put Franco at first and keeping Asche at 3rd(hoping that he will improve and put up better than 1 WAR per year.)

            1. You actually might do better if you kept Franco at third, moved Ruf to first and tried to get Asche time as a supersub and even let him play a big in left. I really like Asche as a prospect but I think Ruf is going to give you a solid 3 WAR at first, which is damned good for a guy who gets paid almost nothing; whereas Franco could give you 2-4 WAR a third even in his first few years with perhaps more to come over time (at first, I think, even as a fully matured player, Franco’s probably going to be 4-6 WAR tops and that would take a while – 4.5 WAR players are few and far between; if he fields third competently Franco’s bat plays up in a big way at third).

              All of that said, unless he completely dominates in ST, I start Franco at AAA next year to give Asche the benefit of another off season, ST and month in the majors to see what he can do while Franco further hones his skills at AAA and keeps the FA boogeyman away for another year.

      2. I disagree. Any PAs Franco can get at the major league level will help his development, regardless of which position he’s playing. At any rate, playing him at 1B will give him flexibility and he may need to play 1B at some point, especially early in his career if management decides they want to cut ties with Howard in the near future.

        1. That being said, yes, I hope he plays 3B primarily. By all accounts, he’s a good fielding 3B, so that shouldn’t be a problem. Personnel issues would be the only reason Franco should be playing 1B.

          1. Right, abstract value is one thing – that’s more a concern for fantasy players than for the team on the field. Once the roster is set, you play for the best team, or you play guys in positions where they can grow as players, if that’s the aim of your team, as opposed to a playoff run, which seems out of the question for the Phils in 2015. If you have Asche who can add some value to your team at third and nowhere else, and Franco who can add value to the team at first, and no one else to play the positions, than you keep both bats in the lineup by playing one of them at first.

            Are we settled that Asche at first and Franco at third isn’t a viable defensive option? Asche’s got good enough reactions to field the position off the bat as well as he does at first – he’s not a clumsy oaf – he’s got a good enough arm to make any throw a first baseman is asked to make, and height being a virtue at first, it’s not like he’s any shorter than Franco – both men are listed at 6’1″. So why would you not try him there if you’re forcing yourself to play both men? By most if not all accounts Franco is a better third baseman, so the defensive value to the club (leaving aside the positional WAR boost for Franco and potential hole into which it puts Asche’s WAR) might be best if they two were swapped.

            Not sure what the Phils baseball people think of trying Asche as a first baseman. Perhaps there would be good reason not to do it other than “Franco looks more like a first baseman”. Cause if “First Basemen Are Usually Bigger Guys” is your reason, that’s pretty weak logic.

        2. Assuming Howard is on the team and playing every day, I’d play Franco at 3B, and platoon Asche and Ruf in LF next year. Assuming Howard can be moved, or released, I’d play Franco at 3B, Ruf at 1B (either every day or platoon with someone), and Asche in LF everyday.

          1. I believe that they will try to trade Brown in the off-season. However, they may want too much and fail to do so. It is hard to believe that there are not changes made, but I have found a lot of the FO decisions to be hard to believe. When is the next Cuban OF going to be eligible to be signed?

            1. If you mean Tomas, I think it’s pretty much accepted that he’ll be available in the off-season, but not before the end of this year. Vague, but good enough for now. Likely his reps will put him on the market at whatever time makes most sense during the FA bidding for outfielders.

      3. I would support putting Franco at 1B just for the remainder of this season, so he can experience major league pitching. He can still play 3B on occasion. And next year he’s back to playing 3B full time whether he starts in the majors or AAA.

    2. Franco is not on the 40 man roster so there is that decision to consider when calling him up.

      If he is coming up he has to play every day. You cannot add a guy to the 40 man roster, call him up, and let him sit for a month.

      The real question becomes who sits, the rookie or the overpaid veteran?

      1. With a major league team so far below .500 I am sure they can easily find a person to drop from the 40 man roster..

  2. Franco’s line in August:

    .310 / .310 / .600

    0 walks for the month. Not sure what to take away from this. Reminds me of Brown’s May 2013.

    1. Well he’s hot as can be so I understand the aggressiveness, but no walks in nearly 4 weeks shows that plate discipline is still an issue, maybe his only issue at this point.

      1. agreed, this a a red flag to me…I would be curious to know what kind of bad ball hitter he his and also how often he hits the ball the other way and up the middle v. the pull side

    1. The answer could be Damek Tomscha. He has been in the middle of the run scoring for the GCL Phils. Encarnacion has not hit well. They have to win out. You may see him today. The Yankees eliminated the Phillies yesterday by winning a double header against the Blue Jays.

  3. One more player is nomination eligible for the AFL by the Phillies.
    I wonder who that will be….Joe Jordan already ruled out Biddle….he will not pitch anymore this year.

      1. Asche has been with the big club for too long. He could go play in Latin America for any team that will have him. I imagine you’d have some takers.

      1. You have to have been off the DL for at least a month in order to be considered for the rosters. So neither of those guys, nor Biddle, would be eligible. The only exception to that rule is the concussion DL, I believe. Buxton was on that, is coming off (or just came off) and is going to the AFL.

  4. I can’t be the only one terrifed of Quinn playing in the AFL. Just feel as though rest and more strengthening and conditioning would be more beneficial than the reps at this point. He made through the season and think we may be pushing just a bit too hard here. If anyone has anything they can share to help me understand better, please do share.


    1. A reasonable concern and frankly I’m a little surprised that they chose to send him. But the fact that he’s missed time already while switching positions makes the added experience worth it IMO. He’ll have the winter for some rest.

      1. It sounds like a reasonable calculated risk to me – Quinn needs to expand his development time because he’s been limited these last two seasons. Another 30 games or so against really good competition could really help him. I expect him and Crawford to explode onto the scene next year in Reading and for Quinn to push for a major league roster spot some time in 2016 or 2017. I think the organization clearly views him as their centefielder of the future – Joe Jordan’s praise was effusive as he described Quinn as a future impact player. I’m not sure he’s quite right about that, but at least we understand what he thinks now.

    2. Eh, I think they’re trying to make up for time missed. Not too worried about his health right now. He hasn’t shown any ill effects.

    1. I see very little chance to start the season. Likely a Clearwater start, and could move up in July if successful.

    2. I’d be very surprised if Brown started at Reading. I think he’s likely CWater bound. Although, I wouldn’t be completely shocked if he even starts in LWood. OF is very deep between CWater and LWood. It’s gonna be interesting where they place them all.

    3. I think he’ll probably start in Clearwater, but tbh I think they should consider starting him in Lakewood next year. This is a guy with a very raw/aggressive approach and even though his numbers look good in a SSS with the Blueclaws, he’s striking out a lot, not walking and didn’t put up impressive numbers in Williamsport. Hopefully he makes some adjustments going into next year that would make starting in Clearwater a good idea.

      1. +1. He’s going to stand a better than average chance to be eaten alive by the career bullpen guys and their nasty breaking balls in the higher levels if he doesn’t figure this out.

        Not literally eaten alive. Although, you never know with relievers. They’re an odd bunch.

  5. Did anyone here see Aaron Brown as being this good? SSS, I know, but he looks like a hitter and is someone to be excited about. I don’t remember that much excitement when he was drafted, but may be wrong.

    1. He’s had a good two weeks but include his Wport stats and he’s had a good first year, but not crazy good.

  6. I don’t understand why Franco can’t be brought up and for a month he and Asche can platoon while Howard and Ruf platoon. I don’t know how many lefties they’ll face but at least one a week. I’m sure it would be a good experience for Franco. While I always liked Asche, I don’t love the idea of him as a LF. Obviously Dom is a very low benchmark right now but I’d like more offense from LF. We’ll have to wait and see if the Cuban guy is a possibility over the winter. “Dugan hurt again” is really getting old….
    Btw – I’m actually very interested to see MAG next week.

    1. Remember when we tried to platoon Ruf at first base and the media started wondering if this was starting to turn into a platoon situation?

      Ruf got benched, Howard was back starting, and the conversation ended.

      Then a month later our GM is on the radio talking about how Ruf fell into some bad habits, cannot pull the ball, and we still need to see what we have there.

      Good times.

      1. Frustrating times for sure.
        These last few weeks a few players….Brown, Kendrick, , Buchanan and now .Hamels..began questioning the manager’s decisions when it came to them..
        I guess last place teams and frustrated players do those type of things.

        1. I cannot blame Ryno for this season.

          They unceremoniously dumped Charlie after he set the franchise record for wins, installed Ryno, turned their back on development believing that this 90 loss team would turn it around.

          Once the press starts questioning a move everything gets reversed.

          Brown’s development gets shunted by Sizemore for no logical reason.

          No deals at the trade deadline.

          It is just a mess of a roster where every decision appears to be broken down as if this is a contending team.

          I hope this is not setting up for a jettisoning of Ryno because it would reflect badly on the organization after they dumped Charlie and installed him.

          1. Agree…Sandberg is not the fundamental problem with htis club.
            Hope he does not become the scapegoat.

          2. By Brown’s “development”, do you mean being even worse in the field let alone the plate? Not being a dick, I’m just keeping it real.

            1. The guy has had a checkered history here. He got called up in the first half of 2010 with high expectations. Started 2011 in AAA, had some injuries during the stretch of 2011 and 2012. Solid season in 2013, slow start in 2014 and gets relegated to the bench.

              I am not saying he would be a superstar but the organization never fully committed to Brown like they should have. They were focused on trying to get back to the World Series and overlooked him.

              Now the big rumor is that we will go hard after Tomas in the offseason. I think it is great but from a roster construction perspective you have Byrd/Revere/Brown/Ruf already in the outfield.

              If you go all in and sign Tomas then Brown has to go in a trade.

              There needs to be some focus.

        2. All the pitchers were wrong in their reactions: Cole blew a 3-0 lead, Kendrick imploded and lost his cool in SF and Buchanan was a hit away from being routed. We have a good bullpen now so why not use them when they are available for use. Brown needs to be benched which is the only thing that motivates him to perform.

  7. Remember when we used to have pennant races? When we wondered who the Phillies would acquire by 8/31 to round out the postseason roster? Remember when it was difficult to figure out which outstanding starting pitcher would not be starting in October? Distant memories now, eh?

    But, hey, when we have about 3 or 4 guys that we still need to know more about, let’s keep throwing Ryan Howard out there almost every day and hoping for the best. Hello? Is anybody home?

    1. Ryan Howard isn’t having close to an mvp year, but can’t someone who could end up with 100 rbi’s on an abysmal offensive squad get a little bit of a pass? On a different topic, would it be bad news or good news if the Phils won 20 of their last 30 games?

      1. For $25 million he should be doing much better. Yes his RBI totals are nice but when you have Revere and Utley in front of you and Byrd behind you there is no excuse for his hitting splits.

        He is the third highest paid player in MLB this year. I think we have a right to expect more.

  8. Joe Jordan on Shane Watson:

    Jordan cast doubt on Watson’s future.——“He’s been rehabbing all year,” Jordan said. “I don’t think we really know. I think he’s still in that phase of his rehab that we don’t exactly know how he’s going to come out the other end of it. We believe the guy is going to pitch again. We just haven’t got to the point where we have the conviction level of knowing this guy is going to come back close to what he was, this guy is going to come back 80-90 percent of what he was. I just don’t think we know that yet.”

        1. Last I read, the team seems to think he’s on track to start next season. But as far as his prospect status, I wouldn’t count on him returning to form until he shows and sustains it. I wouldn’t put him in my top 30.

  9. When Jordan says “its been a bad year”….was he referring to Larry Green specifically or to the whole minor league system?

    1. He was referring to Larry Greene.

      Greene is just a colossal miss by the Phillies’ scouting system. Here’s a top 40 overall draft pick, without any injury problem, who is failing miserably in his 2nd season at low A. That’s sad.

  10. I think Cody Asche is sort of the Don Money of 2014. Good player, but trading him could make the team a lot better.

  11. Check out Dennis Keys–a lefty starter 6’4″ 240 lbs–age 20. Gets mucho Ks w few BBs…now at Clwtr GCL. This guy should be starting for Lakewood in ’15 with a chance to move up to FSL Clwtr during the season. He and lefty Imhoff looking good on the mound. Imhoff to FSL Clwtr in ’15 since it appears that the new philosophy is to move players up more quickly than in the past.

    Asche and Franco to play 3b and 1b with Valentin at 2b, Crawford SS, and Quinn in CF.
    That is the best use of the resources available.

  12. Brown had ONE good month in his career (well great month actually). He was flip flopped in the beginning of his career but has been giving all the opportunity in the works the past 2 years and he hadn’t run with it. I think we just need to realize that he isn’t that good.

    Also Buchanan, are you kidding me? What right do you have to question anyone at this level? You are a rookie, you should be seen and not heard. Unbelievable.

      1. Agreed. He’s been all over the place and more than once now he’s made a decision about bunting that has made my brain fall out of my ear holes.

        1. There also appears to be a lack of respect for him by several players. Big it was 1-2 incidents them fine but there has been a season long pattern there.

          I didn’t like the hire at the time and while he’s been dealt a tough hand I can’t say he’s won me over

          Ooops. Just realized we aren’t in the General Discussion thread

  13. A lot of nonsense on this board about the Phillies FO being Dom Browns problem when Dom Brown is Dom Browns problem. Let me ask are the Red Sox jerking Jackie Bradley, are the Pirates jerking Polanco were the Cardinals jerking Wong?

    This notion that sending a prospect back down if they crap the bed hurts said prospects development is ludicrous especially if you are a contending team. The onus is on the prospect to win an everyday job.

    I’d bet that if Tavaris doesn’t get it going between now and the end of the year he may start next season in AAA again.

    Talk to some people in baseball and you will hear from them that there is a generation disconnect between the young talent and the veteran leadership. They will tell you (perceived or real) these young guys are coming to the big club with an overwhelming sense of entitlement.

    This person believes it is getting tougher for these guys to stay humble when there is so much more attention on them in the minors than there was say 15-20 years ago. Its laughable he said they think their own hype is going to allow them to be successful up here. His monster example is Harper vs. Trout. He says it will be more common to see these kids come up and go down once maybe a few times before they get it.

    1. There is no excuse for Dom not being able to track a fly ball, having terrible accuracy with an otherwise strong arm, and being a terrible base runner. These are fundamentals that he can work on constantly. A good prospect would have taken any perceived slights and channeled them into being even better. He has done none of that. I think they go all out for Tomas. I think Brown goes in a trade for someone else’s once upon a time was a prospect guy.

    2. The Braves’ Heyward is a good example. After going up and down last year, he has shown that he is a good player.

    3. DMAR, I agree with you. The media is blowing up guys when they get hot making them believe that they are superstars before they earn the moniker.

      ESPN and Harper are a great example. ESPN and almost any rookie that they attach themselves like a leech to is a great example.

      Franco is getting the same treatment. People want him up and when you ask them where he plays they say that Asche sucks with no justification for that statement. They think that Franco is the savior to the franchise and we know that is not the case.

      As for Brown, they might as well trade him this offseason since their is no commitment from the franchise to develop him. But then again our GM talks like he would be this great talent if someone else got ahold of him.

      It is either or. Either this guy is good enough to play everyday or he needs a change of scenery.

    4. The situation with Brown is a little different than those guys because he was actually hitting well in the month leading up to the Pence trade.

      I think some of the blame goes to the team and their odd handling of him, some goes to Brown himself and some goes to poor luck with injuries. I do wonder how much of his problem is mental, how much is mechanical and how much is physical. Have his physical talents eroded? Did he have deficiencies that were exposed in the majors? Both?

  14. Great post Dmar!! It’s time for everyone here to quit making excuses for Domonic Brown.It’s on him to get better,and the disconnect that they have with the older generation coaches,they should be focused on getting better and implementing advice from the coaches no matter what their age is.

    1. I should go on record and say I really liked Dom when he was with Reading I saw him play quite a bit and I thought at the very least above average regular. I just don’t think it is the organizations fault or player development staffs fault when these kids don’t reach their projected potential at the big league level.

      1. At some point I think you have to put it back on the development staff. For every Brown the development staff should sit down and say ‘what could we have done better’ rather than just put it on the player.

        Part of it may be the players fault but some blame needs to fall with the organization.

        Organizations need to constantly reassess their teaching tools. Times change and different players respond to different stimulus.

        Today’s players are much different than 10 or 20 years ago.

        This is not to excuse Brown but to say that overall the organization needs to change with the times.

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