Final Workout Groups

There may be some more movement, but for the most part the final workout groups say a lot about where the final assignments will be.

So first here is the list, once again courtesy of Baseball Betsy.

Workout Groups 3-24Some Thoughts:

Lehigh Valley:

  • I really like that they did move Maikel Franco to LHV, he needs the challenge that park will give him
  • Rupp will drop down as primary catcher here, another MI possibly bumps back to AA when there is a demotion
  • The Lehigh Valley team is primarily AAAA fodder this year, which is fine because the Phillies will need the depth


  • Decent prospect depth here
  • Jesse Biddle is back in Reading, I think it has more to do with who is in Lehigh Valley, and there is not a huge difference whether Jesse starts in AA or AAA
  • The infield is prospect light, but the OF has plenty of power and interest
  • The rotation behind Biddle lacks power but Brody Colvin, Perci Garner, Severino Gonzalez, and Hoby Milner have a lot of questions that need answering
  • Ken Giles won’t be long for Reading if he pitches like he did this spring


  • This team easily lacks the most prospects of any level
  • Roman Quinn‘s assignment is a nice surprise, he is rehabbing in Florida anyway and won’t play for a while, but Clearwater is probably where he belong anyway
  • The pitching is really bad


About Matt Winkelman

Matt is originally from Mt. Holly, NJ, but after a 4 year side track to Cleveland for college he now resides in Madison, WI. His work has previously appeared on Phuture Phillies and The Good Phight. You can read his work at Phillies Minor Thoughts

57 thoughts on “Final Workout Groups

  1. Lakewood will be a lot of fun to follow. Who are some of the candidates for quickest jump to the next level? You mentioned Ken Giles. Any other prospects who you see moving up a level after a good first two months or so?

    1. Depending on how things shake out in the majors you could see Dugan, Collier, and Biddle moving up to fill in cracks. Daniel Child could move to AA at some point and one of the CLW 1B types could move to AA to fill in gaps as well.

      Otherwise there isn’t a lot that you see quick movement for before the SS teams take the field.

      1. Clearwater is kind of a prospect wasteland. Would be nice if LGreene and Tocci could make it there in a couple of months. Then with Quinn the offense might be a little more interesting. Not much pitching to get excited about as well – a consequence of some lean years in not drafting pitching or signing LA talent there. Would be nice if Watson could make it there, but I assume his recovery will be handled with care.

        1. I thought the same. Clearwater looks pretty uninteresting. That said, the Lakewood Outfield is pretty overcrowded and should lead to a lot of rotating to First and DH for Cozens and Greene.

  2. Ugh. Assuming that the lighter shaded players names indicate an injury, that’s an absolute ton of guys hurt including way way too many position players. Also if injured guys like Morgan and Watson are listed why is Andrew Knapp omitted. Gueller can’t get out of extended in a pitching starved org? Ugh.

    1. Knapp is listed in the Short Season group and as far as I’m aware he can DH, just can’t Catch until later in the summer.

      1. I’ve been down here all spring and have not even seen Knapp hit or even be in uniform. Maybe I just missed him but I’ve seen a lot of games and intra-squads as well.

        1. I’ll trust you are more likely right than me. I’m going of pre-ST assessments I read about his recovery and the eyes on the ground are a better resource than month old articles.

  3. I looked at that Clearwater team and its tough to get excited about anyone. Maybe Pointer if he puts it together? Child maybe? I guess that’s what happens when your 3 top prospects for that level are hurt(Watson, Quinn, Knapp). I also think its the right move with Tocci. I think it’s important for him to have some type of success before moving on. I thought the only way he’d be in Cwater was because they had nothing else to put there.

    1. Well, I do know of one pitcher that it will be easy to get excited about. But I am not sure that at this point I am able to distinguish between excitement and the extreme stress that comes along with being a pitcher’s dad.

  4. Gueller still not at LWood is a bummer for me. There’s still more guys to be sent down from the majors and a ripple effect will still occur.

  5. Every year there is a “must see” team – as far as I can tell, this year, that team is clearly Lakewood.

      1. I can’t imagine he would be assigned to Clearwater after he is done with rehab. Lakewood seems more likely . They could have Walding DH when Green is at 3b and visa versa.

  6. is the this final list the way the players will be shipped off?? or is this just another work out list and things can change again??

  7. just been noticing few that wee up are now on 5
    just curious is #5 what team is that or what ever

    1. Group 5 is the group that will stay in Clearwater for Extended Spring Training until right after the June draft when the Short Season Teams in Williamsport and the Gulf Coast League will be formed.

  8. Wasn’t surprised to see Ludy and Dalles get cut, but I am still wondering what they see in Logan Moore. He has not impressed me in the least this spring, and it looks like he will be back at Clearwater for another year. If he can’t improve on his dismal .185 average against the A+ level pitching within the first couple of months of the season, then they need to rethink about this guy.

    1. Remember, in the minors, hitting is the least important thing a catcher does. If he handles the pitchers well and makes them better they will stay around forever no matter how they hit.

  9. Defense can only get you so far. At some point, you have to be able to hit, and he hasn’t shown that capacity either last year or this spring.

    1. The key is to remember that with minor league catchers they are as important a part of a pitcher’s development as they are actual prospects. So a catcher that is a great receiver that works well with your pitchers will stick around for a while because they make other players better. No one is arguing Moore is a good prospect, but with Knapp out for now, there isn’t exactly a prospect that he is blocking.

      1. I have seen Moore and Knapp both play, and I can assure you, Moore is twice the catcher that Knapp is. Moore’s only problem is that he cannot hit. His numbers have gotten worse with every season as he has moved up the minor league ladder. Moore had a very good year behind the plate last year, but he has not been nearly as impressive this spring. If he doesn’t come out hitting and/or catching extremely well, I can see him getting less and less playing time over the season.

  10. Crawford running with the Clearwater group and is 4-7 with two doubles in the first two games.

  11. Hector Neris and Greg Smith, listed in Group 1, threw in the Big League Game today.

  12. Is anybody as concerned about Tocci’s still frail body as I am? I believe that he has been reported as just as “slender” as he has been before.

    Many here were confident that he’d be on some sort of program to increase his girth and strength over the off-season…as I was. Apparently not.

    Opinions requested……..

    1. I saw him at Spring Training, though only briefly, and can report that his physique is still tall and skinny, looks more like a freshman guard than a baseball player. That said–and I know this is getting to be a little repetitive, but it’s still true–he is still only 18, won’t turn 19 until August. In other words, he’s only a few months older than some high school seniors. He is 8 months younger than JP Crawford and Cord Sandberg. The fact that we all have been talking about him–and this question of whether he will fill out–for years can lull you into forgetting just how young he is and how much time for physical maturation he still has. All we can do, really, is just wait on the guy and not get too impatient. Tocci could quite conceivably spend another four years in the minors and he’d still be a relatively young rookie.

    2. I am not as high on Tocci as most people on this site but he’s 6’2″ and can certainly pack on muscle. I’m not sure he’ll ever be 200 pounds but a few big Macs and chocolate shakes (every day) in combination with weight building exercises will help get him there. It might kill him first but if he survives, he’ll get there. I remember when everyone on this site thought Galvis would never be able to hit the ball out of the infield but he did. They may need to move him to Reading so he can tie a boxcar around his waist and try pulling it. Tocci’s only 18 and when I was his age I had a lot of problem putting pounds on my shinny butt. A few steaks and a lot of beer got me to 220 in no time. I was legally able to drink beer at 18 and Tocci can’t do it legally. Maybe he’ll be 21 before the pounds come on.

    3. I’m not concerned because he is still just 18. If he is still frail at 20 then I will be concerned.

      My only concern is with the org and keeping him at age appropriate levels. And size has nothing to do with bat speed so I will be paying attention to what the scouts say this season about his ability to generate it.

    4. He still is only 18-years old. There is time. His frame may allow him to reach Reports from a few years ago may have read his upper-torso would limit his ability to muscle bulk to any great length.. I still think he can reach 190/195 someday.

    5. i would love to know what his parents and siblings, if any, look like, as a clue to his eventual stature.

  13. This is from BP:
    CF Carlos Tocci: Tocci is only 18, so it’s very early, but I’m not sure he will ever hit enough to be a big-league regular. He has a wide stance and makes contact with a good approach. The issue is that there isn’t any extension in his swing, so most balls he hits aren’t hard and are generally just rolled over. His frame is very thin, and his waist is tiny, so I don’t exactly know where muscle will go; it’s kind of a frail build. He can really run, he is graceful in center field, and he glides to balls, but overall his speed plays down due to poor instincts. He doesn’t get good jumps at all and is somewhat slow getting out of the box. Tocci has all the time in the world, but the package doesn’t suggest much more than a defensive specialist fourth outfielder. –Steffan Segui

    1. This is kind of my fear as well. Clearly his hitting approach will have to change because if he is a .300 hitting singles hitter who can’t make great use of his speed on the basepaths he is Ben Revere with an arm but without the base stealing ability.

  14. Reading outfield looks crowded. Presumably Dugan-Altherr-Perkins are starters, so does this mean Hewitt and Collier won’t be starting?

    1. I’d expect them to advance either Dugan or Collier at some point. I think for the first month or so you will see Altherr and Dugan playing everyday. Collier and Hewitt are likely to get spot starts or platoon.

    2. Looking at that IF, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Perkins or Dugan or both get some time at 1B just to keep them getting PAs.

    3. I suspect that Collier will be in CF and Dugan, Perkins and Hewitt will split up LF/RF/DH. Altherr coming back later in April will probably cause someone to go up or down.

  15. Not too many starters listed in the AAA group. I know they will get some from MLB camp soon. Very curious (and scared) what the big Phils rotation will be.

    1. LHV rotation will be Manship, Buchannan, O’Sullivan, Enright, and Smith with Pettibone taking a spot soon. One of these guys will pitch for 2 weeks for the big club until Hamels comes back in late April. Agreed, its not very impressive. I’m assuming they’ll leave Martin in the pen when he returns.

      1. I would assume that Holland will be in LHV rotation rather than breaking camp with the Phillies.

        1. I’m not sure what they’re going to do with Hollands. I had him penciled into the Reading rotation but I’m not sure now.

  16. Is anyone watching today’s ST game? Pettibone is back in there and, statistically, had two good innings, including two Ks. Does it look like he’s throwing hard again? Last year, before he got hurt, he was touching 95 and 96, so there’s some good history there and I love his composure – love it.

    1. On Hamels Today:
      Hamels is fully back on track now.
      He proved that Thursday afternoon, throwing 30 pitches, 20 strikes, against a Pittsburgh Pirates’ minor-league club. Hamels allowed two infield hits. He did not walk a batter and struck out one. “I felt great out there,” he said.
      Hamels expects to continue to pitch in minor-league games in Florida every fifth day. “I’m really pleased,” he said. “I feel like I can truly get spring training in now. I feel healthy now and I have the strength to go out and get my reps in and build my pitch count up.”

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