81 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 9 July 2011

  1. I find it very ironic that JC pitched in LV tonight after turning the Phillies down to LV to get right.

  2. Some good starts from Worley with 6 innings and no runs for Lehigh, May with 9Ks and 7IP i hitter and Pettibone 6 IP 1 run for Clearwater, and finally Biddle pitched 6 strong innings and 8ks for game two win.

    1. Our minor league pitching is so far ahead of our minor league hitting that it’s staggering.

      If you had to give our minor league system a grade for pitching it would probably be an A- (lack of superstar prospect robs us of a slightly higher grade, but depth and talent keep us near the top).

      As for position players, I’d give us a B- or C+, at best. Yeah, there are some good prospects, but do you feel that any of these guys is creating a real buzz this year? I don’t.

    2. Musser’s GCL performance was a good one too. 8/3 GO/AO ratio and only one walk are very encouraging numbers.

    1. He and Mattair have been hitting pretty well lately at the bottom of the order for Lakewood. Collier, too, at the top. Murphy has fallen off a bit, so it’s a good thing someone is hitting…

  3. Nice game for Kyrell Hudson. Santana had a nice day and Biddle’s start was encouraging (be even better if it came with a good velocity report). Awful day for Clearwater’s hitters but great for the pitchers- good to see May dominate and Pettibone’s line is really good. I like seeing Galvis steal another base, and nice pitching lines from Hyatt and Savery tonight. But Hyatt still gives up way too many home runs, even for a hitter’s park. Glad Overbeck hit twice/doubled/didn’t K and Worley had a good start down there.

    1. I only stayed through the first 2 innings of the second lakewood game but biddle was hitting between 86 and 88 on the Lakewood Gun.

  4. Trevor May with another dominant start. I still consider Cosart to be the best pitching prospect in the system, but May has, in my opinion, surpassed Colvin.

  5. Sebastian Valle is not listed on the CLW roster today and his webpage on MiLB.com has him on the Temporarily Inactive List. anyone know hat is going on?

  6. The Worley thing blew up in their faces. It is never a good idea to tempt the baseball gods.
    Perez made them all look silly, hopefully he keeps on. Very interesting! Meanwhile Savery is warming up in the bullpen.
    I would hope to see Susdorf move up sooner rather than later. He isn’t a pup.

    Note It was nice to watch a game with real announcers

        1. Then your 10 cent mind would be bitching about Worley getting out of sorts by being jerked around between the rotation/pen. They lost one game to a great starting pitcher, it doesn’t fricking matter you dope. Losing one game in 10 innings when the team didn’t hit at all isn’t a blow up except to dolts like you.

        1. Hamels following Lee after extra inning game, thus being excused from All Star game, and while Worley was an Iron Pig, adding another position player. Worley pitches in MLB rotation soon.

          1. No Worley should have stayed with the team and been available in relief of Lee. Facing another team the book move would of been correct. In this case when you don’t have a lick of faith in some reliever, Worley should of stayed. And that is MY ten cents.

        2. Nowheels – A potential extra inning win at this point in the season when you’re up, what 10 games (not sure if that’s the exact number, but it’s something like that) for a playoff spot isn’t worth jerking a guy between a starting role and a relief role.

          You got to see the forest through the trees, you really do. It’s a long season – Keeping Worley on his starters schedule is the best long term solution.

          I do agree with the other posters that you’re seriously unstable. It’s pretty sad actually.

          1. Good to know Thank you for your kind words. Move to Russia where there is one opinion

            1. Nowheels sometimes I thought you were joking about this whole Worley issue, but really, you couldn’t be more off base in this train of thought. Do you personally know Vance? Does he tell you things? I don’t think so…seems to me you let your own clouded judgement get in the way of being level headed when thinking about minor league players. You are far and away the only one who has these outlandish opinions, and I’d ask you to really think about what you type before you actually type it…cuz not many people are going to be laughing “with” you if you know what I mean.

  7. Time for Stutes and Chooch to back someone off the plate.
    Nice article on May in milb. Soungs like he has been thinking too much.
    Ruf is making a serious run. Where the hell does he fit in?

  8. Why aren’t more people talking about Derrick Mitchell? I’ve never seen him in person so maybe he’s just a numbers guy. And while he’s not young for Class AA, he’s not super old either. What’s the catch?

    1. SamCapp—-where were you in June?—the board was lit up on DMitch—pros and cons.
      Check the June archives. Nevertheless, he currently is still holding his own pretty good.

    2. Not much to talk about. He’s solid org filler. Think otherwise, look at his career s-line

      1. I think it’s a mistake to evaluate D. Mitchell just by his career slash line. Even his critics have to admit that he’s a much better player now than he was 2 years ago.

    3. Plenty of us think that he is potentially a solid 4th/5th OF. More than that … no. Low BB rate/OBP, combined with age/level, which as you say isn’t THAT bad, except that for him to be a serious prospect at that age/level he would have to be a finished product – which he isn’t.

      Fun to watch, but he’d OBP about.300 in the majors, which won’t cut it for a regular.

    4. He deserves more attention…he started to really come around lat year and has kept it up this year. Potential 20/20 with a .285 average.

      1. 20/20 with a .285 average … yeah, I guess he could. Not guarenteed, but then what minor leaguer comes with a guarentee?

        The problem is that, even in these reduced run scoring times, 20/20 .285 with few BB – say an OBP of .325, a very optimistic upside IMO – doesn’t cut it as a major league outfield regular. Maybe – maybe – he could be an average, or slightly below average, regular as a CF, again as his upside, but certainly not a regular a corner OF.

        That’s his upside. If EVERYTHING breaks right for him. Sorry, I think that the Phillies can do better.

        OTOH, a guy who can play all OF positions well with some pop and speed – seems like a guy who I would love to see as a 4th/5th OF. THAT’S what we can realistically expect from Mitchell in the coming years.

        1. I think you’re underselling what being a 20/20 guy in the game right now would mean. Offense is way down and that sounds pretty good to me. If he can play solid defense, especially in CF, that’s a capable starter even if the OBP is a little low. Not a middle of the order hitter, but pretty nice for a 6/7 spot in the order.

          1. MikeHJandzus:—-‘….capable starter even if the OBP is a little low….’, maybe with the 2011 Astros or Padres

            1. There are 2 current Phillies starters below a .325 OBP, and another who’s pretty close at .331.

            2. One is Ibanez – the worst regular in the major leagues.

              Brown IMO is in the long run going to be WAY over .325 – probably over .350. If I’m wrong, he won’t keep his job. But the Brown comparision is enlightening. Brown was MUCH better than Mitchell in AA at a much younger age. And even he is having some growing pains in the majors. Why would you expect Mitchell to be that good or better?

              Polanco has a career OBP of .346.

              And as I said, .325 is probably his upside. More likely is .300 or thereabouts.

              I suspect that a lot of the Mitchell love is people who underestimate the importance of OBP. Unless you’re talking about SS or C, a player whose upside is an OBP of .325 is not a prospect, absent pretty extraordinary set of other skills. And not often even then.

            3. I never said that Mitchell would be a starter with the Phillies or anything like that, and I never came close to saying he was as good a prospect as Brown. Just that IF he ends up being the player described- 20/20 player in centerfield with a mediocre OBP, he’s a guy who’s not a terrible starter in the majors. That would also depend on the quality of his defense and how successful he is at not getting caught stealing. But players with above average power and speed are assets, and if your 7th hitter is doing that then you probably have a pretty good lineup.

          2. One reason I get snarky in response to these types of arguments is that it’s hard to make a serious response in a comment of reasonable length. But I’ll try to be serious. The short answer is that there are plenty of people who have an upside of a decent regular. Most of them don’t get a chance, and for a good reason: most of them have only a small chance of hitting that upside.

            Look, PLENTY of people have seasons of Mitchell’s quality in AA at his age. Few of them get a chance at a regular major league job, and fewer still do anything constructive with such a chance. His upside may be 20/20 .285 with a .325 OBP and decent defense in centerfield. But more likely is something like 15/15 .270 with a .300 OBP, which is horrible.

            Another way to look at it: Francisco, who I have defended but acknowledge is miscast as regular, at Mitchell’s age had a MUCH better season in AAA than Mitchell is having this year in AA. And that’s typical.

            Finally, as for “And while he’s not young for Class AA, he’s not super old either,” sure – except that most AA players don’t end up as regulars in the major leagues – and the ones that do (a) mostly were younger when in AA, and (b) the ones that weren’t were “finished products” in AA – much more accomplished than Mitchell this year.

            He is simply not someone who has ANY signficant chance of being a major league regular. If he does get that chance, it will be with a non-contender.

        2. Larry — Mayberry is already on the team and could be there. He is all you describe and I don’t see the Phillies falling all over themselves to keep him on the roster.
          I have enjoyed watching Mitchell improve. He has to go some before they think of him as a major league outfielder.

          1. lol, and the funny thing is that other people are crucifying me for being too pessimistic about him.

            I would put it the other way – if Mayberry can make it as a reserve, so can Mitchell.

            1. Both Mayberry and Mitchell are superior athletes and as Charlie said yesterday Mayberry is just starting to put things together. Michell is fun to watch with excellent outfield instincts.
              I would certainly say he the most improved hitter in the system over the last couple years but he started from a very pooor base. For now though he is worth the price of my tickets to Reading!

  9. Juxt read on philly news about latin market and the phillies way. sal agnostelli talked about what they look to do in the market they spend 21 out of teams involved. look for one guy who can help big club like a ruiz or bastardo and one propsect to used in trades, like villar. interesting to me, how they read the market and go into it , he has his eye on a kid right now but wont mention him for fear some other team goes for him, with the budject they have he feels they do a good job recongise talent

    1. Oh pleeeeese!—I wish Sal A. would just come out and be a little more discreet—-their budget is mediocre/average–middle of the pack, whatever you want to call it—-the top ten kids are almost all gobbled up now–Rangers and Royals have already 4 of the top ten. Signed at $3M plus bonus’. If there is one weak area of the Philadelphia minor league system—-it is going cheap yearly on Latin talent—-if they would only spend high one out of every three years, I can see some sense in that but not every year.

      1. I agree Ron. The percentage of Caribbean and South American players becomes larger every year. It is a market loaded with potential — and risk. The Phillies are a risk-averse organization for the minors.
        If the draft is enlarged to include Latin America outside of Puerto Rico, the risk can be cut down because there will be much more knowledge of the players.
        The Phillies have quite a few good Latin players for all of their conservative signing of them. I doubt if they will change a policy that they feel is working.
        I think it is similar to the Flyers abandoning the Russian signings and putting themselves out of the Stanley Cup for years.
        Sal Agostonelli is good enough to help them get some superstars, but I don’t think the Phillies will do this now. Maybe when they reform the draft.

        1. That is what I am hoping for—some time of an equitable reform in the ‘draft’ system of the Latin market, additionally, without or with minimal ‘buscones’ involvement.

  10. Savery looks to be finding a niche as a LH relief pitcher with a couple of innings, and developing in the pinch hitting category. Seems they should add at least another LH reliever come September 1 they usually do, you know. If that form holds true it looks like between Savery, Zagurski, and Larry Dickman (sic). Other teams may see Savery moving into that unique niche, particularly NL teams and eye for selection in the Rule 5 draft this time. So maybe Savery is added September 1, thus bringing forth from mothballs a strongly panned prediction, Savery with MLB appearance by end of this season, as it was said early in the offseason. A few months should tell.

    1. It was also interesting to read in the Reading Eagle today that he’s starting to touch the mid to low 90’s with his fastball, and his curveball is showing more bite. Parent said he was really impressed.

      I know the odds are extremely low, but maybe some time away from the pitching side of things really helped him clear his mind and change his approach. Extremely small sample size, but he’s a prospect again – as a pitcher. He really hasn’t done much with the bat since reaching Reading, and was fading kinda fast in Clearwater, so unlike the other posters, I really don’t see a double role thing at a higher level than AA.

      1. Matt, I was thinking the same thing about him actually getting some time off physically and mentally. He could be a very valuable major league long man because he could throw multiple innings and not be a guaranteed out at the plate. If he really is throwing that hard he will be gone in the Rule V if not protected.

    2. Its the old proverb…”you throw enough predictions against the wall and one may stick”. Eagerly anticipating what that one may be.

      1. Lots of ’em stuck. After ’08 season, Burrell and Moyer not offered arbitration, in offseason on Pete Orr signing that Orr would be candidate for MLB roster and not candidate as minor league back up. During season, first to claim Brian Gordon would be candidate for MLB call-up. In offseason, Galvis eligible for Rule 5 draft this season and thus added to MLB roster. First to tout Jonathon Villar as MLB prospect while at Williamsport and others had seen. Predicted Derrick Mitchell as candidate for MLB bench role while still in 0 for half season slump in first year at Clearwater, looking better on that. Savery to MLB this season, looking better on that. First to tout Cesar Hernandez while still in VSL. Stats gazing at various Latin American players to predict they go to States shortly including Geancarlo Mendez, Ervis Manzanillo, et.al. All heavily panned by many. I could fill another 10 inches , or so, so many can’t remember ’em all. The misses few and far between, I can’t specifically remember a one. Baseball terms , I’d be at around an .800 clip, while others mostly at an 0 for the season, with the bat still on the shoulder or wildly flailing and missing.

        1. When I have some free time this week, I may go back and “reiminesce” on the Marfis predictions. My guess is that your average is mired well below Bocockian levels,

          1. Well, if that’s a serious prediction it is wrong already. Players who are eligible to play in foreign Winter Leagues (Venezuela) are ineligible to play in the AFL.

    3. I assume Larry Dickman was meant to be Jacob Diekman. He has reinvented himself as a side-arm guy, and he has been much improved at Reading after a rough start. However, he is nowhere near MLB-ready at this point. Perhaps he is a future LOOGY, but he still has much to prove.

  11. sorry also mention valle who he said has long swing and okay arm but is best hitter they have i believe he said or best latin hitter n

    1. What somebody should have taken from that article is that Agostinelli says there are 13 legitimate own grown MLB prospects from Latin America (or other international) in Phillies system from Williamsport and above. All of them cost 1.1 million dollars combined.

      1. My guesses as to the 13:
        Sebastien Valle, C
        Freddy Galvis, SS
        Cesar Hernandez, 2B
        Lisalverto Bonilla, RHP
        Ervis Manzanillo, LHP
        Domingo Santana, OF
        Miguel Alvarez, OF
        Leandro Castro , OF
        and others , I say:
        Harold Garcia, 2B
        Ebelin Lugo, RHP
        Lino Martinez, LHP
        Hector Neris, RHP
        Geancarlo Mendez, INF-OF

        Other possibilities: Gabriel Arias,RHP, Juan Sosa,RHP Francisco Diaz,C, Lendy Castillo, RHP, Leonel BastidasRHP, Juary Gomez, RHP Witer Jimenez, INF-OF Jesus Pirela RHP

        1. Yeah…I’ll take all the small signings the Phillies are doing over signing some unknown to a $5 million deal. Thanks for the list.

            1. Only partially kidding. I’d like for them to spend about $1.5 million more per year spread between 3-5 players. I don’t want to give a 16-year-old a couple million dollars based on how much we hope he’s going to grow/gain weight/adjust to the US. I’d rather spread out the risk between lighter prospects.
              I understand that many of the top signing bonus guys are hot prospects now, but let’s look at some of the top signing bonuses from 5 or more years ago.
              Wily Mo Pena from 1999 got $2.44m to be a crap major leaguer. Joel Guzman got $2.25 and hit the majors early, but hardly played; he hit pretty well at 25 in AA last year but is going to Asia somewhere to play now. Angel Villalona hasn’t played since being charged with murder.
              Miguel Cabrera is absolutely fantastic. Jesus Montero is still a top prospect.
              Jackson Melian never reached the majors. Neither did Ricardo Aramboles. Esmailyn Gonzalez was 5 years older than reported and a real embarrassment to the Nationals. The Mets’ Fernando Martinez is still a prospect, although his stock has dropped from 2 years ago.
              Willy Aybar had a couple maybe-mediocre years. Carlos Triunfel is 3 months younger and on a Freddy Galvis trajectory in his second full year at AA. (I got these names from http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/10/4/1069057/30-largest-latin-american-signing, a list compiled of million-dollar-plus deals in Latin America.) These are all the ones for whom 5 or more years have passed; of 11, we have one HUGE star in Cabrera, two fringy major leaguers in Pena and Aybar, and maybe 3 guys who still have realistic shots at being contributors.
              Admittedly this is a tiny sample size (I wish I’d been able to find something like the top 5 deals per year), but given that record I wish the Phillies would spend more money and spread it around second-tier guys.

        2. In the Inquirer there was an article below it that listed 13 prospects, presumably the ones mentioned as “legit prospects”. They are:

          Maikel Franco
          Lino Martinez
          Lisalberto Bonilla
          Edgar Duran
          Domingo Santana
          Lendy Castillo
          Ervis Manzanillo
          Juan Sosa
          Sebastian Valle
          Cesar Hernandez
          Leandro Castro
          Freddy Galvis
          Harold Garcia

          But the thing about “13 legit big-league prospects” wasn’t a quote from Agostinelli. It was something Bob Brookover wrote, so it may or may not have come straight from the horse’s mouth.

        3. Now compare that above list them to ‘Cadillac’ signing bobus kids—Jesus Montero, Gary Sanchez, Starlin Castro, Julio Teheran, Willin Rosario, Miguel Sano, Jose Inglesias, and Gillermo Pimentel. I am pretty positive none of this list were $100K signings.

          1. Problem is you’re cherrypicking the successful big $$$ signings while ignoring the one’s that were major misses.

            Yes, you are more likely to find a star among the guys most recognized as superior talents by scouts at a “Cadillac” price. Question becomes how many lemons are your willing to buy at a “Cadillac” price before you hit.

            The Phillies seem to have changed their international signing philosophy after a couple of those big failures. 10 years ago they signed 2 Korean pitchers, Seung Lee and Il Kim for $1.2M and $800,000 respectively. Both were colossal failures.

            Since then they appear to have switched to the concept of spreading the risk by spending their cash building academies in various countries and signing more young players at lower costs.

  12. 1. OF – Domonic Brown (Phillies) – (.239) 0 for 4 with 3 K’s
    3. OF – Jon Singleton (Clearwater)- (.274) –0 for 6 with a run and 4 K’s
    5. RHP – Trevor May (Clearwater)- (6-5, 3.32) – 7 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 2 BB and 9 K’s (win)
    7. LHP – Jesse Biddle (Lakewood) – (4-6, 3.35) – 6 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB and 8 K’s (win)
    8. RHP – Vance Worley (Lehigh Valley) – (5-2, 2.31) – 6 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB and 3 K’s (win)
    12. 2B – Cesar Hernandez (Clearwater) – (.256) – 1 for 5 with an RBI (23) and 3 K’s
    13. OF – Domingo Santana (Lakewood) – (.262) 3 for 5 with a 2B, RBI (22), run, 2 BB and K
    15. OF – Aaron Altherr (Williamsport) – (.305) – 1 for 4 with a 2B (7)
    16. RHP – Jon Pettibone (Clearwater) – (8-5, 2.60) – 6 IP, 6 H, 1 R, 1 ER, BB and 6 K’s
    17. C – Cameron Rupp (Lakewood) – (.245) – 2 for 3 with a 2B (13), 2 RBI (15) and a K
    18. OF – Jiwan James (Clearwater) – (.264) – 0 for 3
    21. RHP – Colby Shreve (Lakewood) – (3-4, 3.57, 1 SV) – 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB and a K (save)
    24. 1B – Matt Rizzotti (Reading) – (.297) – 2 for 3 with a 2B (21), run, RBI (54) and 2 BB
    25. RHP – Austin Hyatt (Reading) – (7-5, 4.44) – 5 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB and 7 K’s
    27. OF – Miguel Alvarez (Lakewood) –(.272) – 2 for 5 with 2 2B (9), RBI (16), run and a K
    28. OF – Kelly Dugan (Williamsport) –(.272) – 1 for 3 with 2 RBI (8)


    1B – Cody Overbeck (Lehigh Valley) – (.214) 2 for 4 with 2B (4), RBI (9) and a run
    2B/DH – Cody Asche (Williamsport) – (.225) 0 for 4
    3B – Maikel Franco (Williamsport) – (.267) – 1 for 5 with a K
    3B – Harold Martinez (Williamsport) – (.237) – 0 for 2 with 2 BB
    SS – Freddy Galvis (Redding) – (.257) –1 for 5 with a SB (14)
    OF – Derrick Mitchell (Redding)- (.287) – 1 for 5 with a HR (14), RBI (55)
    OF – Steve Susdorf (Redding) – (.342) – 2 for 4 with 2B (13), run, RBI (29), BB and 2 K;s
    OF – Zach Collier (Lakewood) – (.282) – 1 for 7 with a 2B, 2 RBI (19) and a K
    OF – Anthony Hewitt (Lakewood) – (.240) – 1 for 2 with a run and BB
    OF – Kyrell Hudson (Williamsport) – (.258) – 3 for 5 with 2 runs and 2 SB (11)
    OF – Herlis Rodriguez (VSL) – (.292) – 1 for 4 with a run and a K
    LHP – Mike Zagurski (Lehigh Valley) – (2-0, 2.32, 10 SV) – 1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB and 2 K’s
    LHP – Joe Savery (Redding) – (1-0, 1.13) –2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB and 4 K’s (win)
    RHP – Justin Friend (Redding) – (0-0, 2.00, 5 SV) – 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB and a K (save)
    RHP – Eric Pettis (Clearwater – (1-2, 2.59, 2 SV) –0.1 IP, 3 H, 5 R, 5 ER, BB and 0 K’s (loss)
    RHP – David Buchanan (Lakewood) – (9-5, 3.88) – 5.1 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER, BB and 6 K’s
    RHP – Jonathan Musser (GCL) – (1-1, 2.57) – 6 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 3 ER, BB and K’s (loss)

  13. If we’re getting excited about Hudson, what about Altherr outperforming him at the same age/level? Again, I’m always skeptical of Willamsport numbers…I guess I never bought into the Altherr hype, so I wasn’t disappointed when he took a step back.

  14. the “Paw Paw mauler”, Derrick Mitchell, was at it again as he has a 2hits, a homerun, and 2 rbis. He is now batting .290 15 hr 57 rbi. Is a call up to Lehigh Valley coming or does he stay in Reading? Freddie Galvis with a pair of doubles tonight!

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