117 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 29 June 2011

  1. Good game by Hyatt only run scores on a homerun of course. Friend with the save. Rodriguez was pitching well for Clearwater until the slam in the 7th inning. Good relief pitching by Hollands for Lakewood. Not sure if the starter got hurt ot not. GCL team is off to a 7-2 start. Pointer not much today but Peter Lavin had 3 hits. He is definately old for the GCL at 24 but he is batting .333 to start his pro career. Altherr w/2rbi and 2 sb for Williamsport in win.

    1. At 24, he’s not old for the GCL, he’s ancient. If he stays there another year, they are going to issue him an AARP card.

      1. Wasn’t he just drafted this year? He’s still old for the level, but at least it isn’t a repeat…

        1. Yeah, but if the Phillies thought much of him, he’d start at Williamsport with the other collegians.

    2. Hyatt continues to be interesting as a prospect. The home runs may be a sign that he has good velocity buy maybe not a whole lot of movement (i.e. stuff) on his pitches. The strikeouts are a sign that he changes speeds pretty well, but if he throws a relatively straight fastball in the zone against better hitters he may have issues.

      Hopefully he can fine-tune his command to keep the home runs down. Or eventually migrate to a bullpen role where he could dial up his fastball a couple extra mph.

  2. Today was Lino Martinez and Maikel Franco day! Interesting to note that they are 2 years younger than their counterparts that started in the GCL today (Oviedo and Valenzuela). Anybody go to the game? How did Lino look? How hard did he throw?

      1. Franco’s contact numbers impressive for his age. Hopefully that eventually translates into the power you want at 3B.

      2. Franco was pretty good last year too. While some of his numbers were not pretty, he held his own and flashed some power at a young age.

      3. Agreed. I had him at the back end of my top 30 coming into this season and so far I think he’s showing that he should move even higher next year.

        1. Yeah. I had him in my 25-30 on the reader top 30 this year. I figured if the Phillies saw fit to have a 17 year old bypass DSL, there was something there. And as has been said, he didn’t get overwhelmed and flashed power and patience.

    1. It definitely was a good night for the 18-year-olds on the Crosscutters roster. Lino never really gave the other team a legitimate shot after the first inning. He showed a nice offspeed pitch tonight to get a couple K’s.

      Franco just seems to hit the ball hard almost every time up there. Despite his K’s increasing the last couple games, he is going out there with a good approach every night. Nice to see him drawing a few BB’s also…

      Altherr quietly had a pretty nice night as well…two-run single in the eighth was a nice “breathing room” hit…he also stole two bases in one inning and had a really nice diving catch late in the game.

      Neris really did pull a Houdini in getting out of Morgado’s jam. He has been a big part of that bullpen’s run of success. Arias is also statistically the top reliever in the league…hard to complain!

      1. Just a note on Martinez – he may be one year older than what is listed. Baseball reference lists his birthdate as 9/17/1991. Milb has 1992.

        This initially came up last year. It is not as big a deal for pitchers as hitters and he is still young for Williamsport.

        1. WHere does Baseball Reference obtain their information? From looking at the site, I figure they have an army of volunteers who transcribe the information from sources. Figure that once in awhile a mistake would be made. I believe they say so in places. Milb , on the other hand, would get the information from team rosters, so , if Lino Martinez is actually a year older, a suspension would follow. I’ll look on Baseball Reference now.

          1. To explore more, I see on milb.com Lino Martinez signed on July 2, 2009. Usually guys who sign on July 2 are 16 y.o. He began play in 2010, as per usual if 16 waiting to turn 17 to start playing. If this is case, he played in 2010 as 17 y.o and now is 18 in Williamsport. That would give a ’92 birthday, so indications are that Lino Martinez is 18 y.o now and that milb is correct.

  3. Neris had a great escape tonight that saved Morgado embarrassment after he had loaded the bases with no outs. Pop, pop, fly and he was out of trouble and got the win. He is improving now that he is at an appropriate level.
    Lavin is good, as is the GCL Phillies infield. The Latin American contingent looks strong, especially the infielders.
    It is good to see Hyatt throwing well again.

  4. valenzuela, who since his signing has been seen as a colassal bust, is kicking ass with the bat so far this year. I thought it pretty interesting that while he has been playing 3rd for the GCL team, tonight he played 2nd. I forget what his defensive scouting report was, obviously not great since he got moved off of SS, but if he can keep hitting like he is and proves to be versitile, he could salvage his career. I know, i know, he is old for his level but we’ve seen it before with latin american players who have had trouble in what is sometimes their first real taste of organized baseball. Hopefully he is showing us just a little nibble in this small sample size to maintain a shred of hope going forward.

    1. You asked about Carlos’ defensive prowess. I looked it up. In his 1st year in the DSL, 2008, he had 27 E’s (14 @ SS, 11 @ 3rd and 2 @t 2nd) in 59 games. That’s about as bad as you can get. DSL fields are probably not that good because it seems the error rates are very high and of course many of these guys are in their teens. He improved as an 18 year old, and I use that term very loosely, to 21 E’s in 60 games. He had 6 E’s in 8 games at short. He had 8 E’s in 40 games at 2nd. 27 E’s in 79 games in 2010 with 21 errors in 47 games at 3rd.

      But his bat has improved significantly in a very small sample size. It could be the South American hitters are ahead of the young pitchers in the GCL. We’ll see as the year progresses.

  5. Does anyone know the pronunciation of Franco’s first name? Is it said like Michael? Or maybe something like May kell? He send to be a good prospect so I just want to make sure I know how to say his name.

    1. The ai gives a sound like I, there may be an accent in the written Spanish, so it could be like Michael or like my-KELL. depends.

    2. BJ, I would say you are correct. Here in the States many parents, who like the sound, spell it as it sounds so that Spanish speakers say it correctly. That may be what (My-kel)’s parents did. Good guess. I’m with your interpretation.

  6. Lino Martinez seems like a prospect. Lefty, 18, good strikeout and walk rates, groundballs, etc. What’s his stuff like?

    1. He’s about 87-88 with his fastball and will run it up there to about 90 once in a while. Good change-up that he might throw a little too much with a nice breaking ball that looks like a slider. Too sharp of bite on it to be a curveball, but I could be wrong. The breaking ball is stellar, though, to right and left-handed hitters.

  7. Shame about the slam against J-Rod.
    Morelos in the VSL seems to be hitting well. Have we heard anything about his glove? Because 14 errors is kind of a ton.

  8. I can’t remember who the jerk that bashed Worley after his last start was or I’d call him out right now. But to paraphrase “he’s overrated right now, it’s not like the start was against an offensive juggerknot” ok moron, you know who you are, OWN IT!! (cause 5 hits 7ip against Boston qualifys) πŸ˜‰

    1. bak425 says:
      June 25, 2011 at 10:27 AM
      Agree with this. Worley got the job done, but struggled to do so against a truly anemic MLB offense. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. Also agree there were no β€œmind games”. Worley got pulled out of the rotation when Blanton came back (understandable), then wasn’t ready to go from the BP to the rotation when Blanton went down again. Hence the brief stint to AAA to get stretched out for the rotation. No mind games.

      1. Reading comprehension, please.

        I didn’t “bash” Worley. I said he got the job done but struggled to do so against a bad offense (Oakland, IIRC). I believe those to be accurate statements. Worley’s performance against Boston is a positive data point and is cause for optimism, but he still has alot more to prove IMO. That mean I think he sucks.

        The other part of the post related responded to an assertion from another poster that the Phils were playing mind games with Worley by moving him in and out of the rotation. Those remarks are completely unrelated to my opinion of Worley.

        1. Sorry, should be “That doesn’t mean I think he sucks”.

          Balky keypad + poor typing skills can be a bad combination.

          1. Err sounds like a slip to me! (kidding) And btw, you totally missed my sarcasim!!! but that’s ok! Smile life is good!

        2. I understood what you said the first time and agree. I think the replier was joking, albeit a bit heavy-handedly.

        3. The problem with your comment was that the metrics you were using really don’t work for looking at a single game. I just don’t think that “struggled” is an accurate descriptor of a performance where a pitcher allows only one hit, despite mediocre BB/K performance.

          Of course, over a longer stretch of games one can start to see patterns. And even apart from the statistics, Worley’s stuff doesn’t equate to his early ERA performance. He’s not going to have a sub 3.00 ERA over the long run. But certainly the early results are encouraging overall – he’s a 4th or 5th starter on this team, and he looks quite good for a 4th or 5th starter.

          1. Actually saying that he “struggled” against Oak was a fair description from watching the performance. Yes, he had very good results in giving up just the one hit but he certainly struggled with his control/command when he regularly fell behind hitters and ran deep pitch counts. I expect if you asked him directly, he would probably agree with that assessment.

            Truth is that I’m more impressed with a pitching performance where a guy is able to still get good results while not being sharp. That is the sign of a guy who has a chance to have a long and productive career.

            Unfortunately, too many people take any critical observation of their favorite player as a personal insult. Saying that Worley benefited by pitching against a bad Oakland line-up isn’t akin to saying he sucks.

            1. Remember that time AJ Burnett pitched a no-hitter but had nine walks. He really struggled that day. Lucky he didn’t get sent down after that game.

          2. I actually think referencing the “one hit” is using the wrong metric. When you are talking about one game, there may be no real “metric” with any value. I think the reference to struggling relates to the deep counts he was running, his poor ball/strike ratio and his inability to finish off hitters. Those are “metrics” but they are also something that tends to reveal itself to an eyeball test as well. And I agree with bak, Worley’s line that night does not reflect how he pitched, which was not going to lead to sustained success.

            He looked much better last night. Pretty soon we may even have a reasonable sample size to have discourse over.

    2. I’m quite happy with only 2 walks against a patient Boston lineup. That’s been his one problem so far. I question leaving a rookie out there for 116 pitches though. I know the bullpen has had injuries but they also all had the last three days off.

      1. They want to stretch him out. Charlie’s been wanting to get him to around 120 pitches for a while apparently.

    3. This is some pretty high praise from an elite hitter:

      “Did that guy just come up or something? Man, because he looked pretty good to me,” Ortiz said of Worley. “He had decent stuff, and it really looks like he’s been around for a long time.

      “They’ve got four big starters here, right? Well, he looked like one of them out there tonight. He really looked comfortable. It’s obvious that he’s listening to those big starters over there. It’s rubbing off on him.”


  9. It is nice that Bocock has his power stroke back. Not bad for a paperboy.
    Weird splits M.Alverez home .188 road .356 with allstar stats.
    Rookie B “The last run he allowed came May 25 against the Reds”.
    Rookie S as usual
    Rookie W ” The Red Sox were impressed.”
    The fact is almost all the outs were easy, easy plays

  10. Funny, I was just about to comment as to the role Bobock fills on the 40-man. He’s fine for org filler, but he doesn’t need to take up a roster spot. I wanted to confirm he was still there before responding. I found the below in the Phils transactions;

    “06/29/11 Philadelphia Phillies outrighted Brian Bocock to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.”

    1. Sweet.. I’ve been thinking that for quite a while.. he seemed like dead space on the 40 man roster. Going to need a couple spots on the 40 man roster for Schwimer and a 3rd catcher come Sept.

  11. Glad to have another player to follow in Franco. I like what his #’s say on paper. Also – Singleton keeps plugging along. I believe he’s hitting .474 over his last 10.

  12. Dont look now but Singleton has a 9 game hit streak going. I’d like to see some more RBIs and extra base hits but he’s raised his raised his AVG 39 points in 9 days. That’s pretty damn impressive.

  13. 1. OF – Domonic Brown (Phillies) – (.214) 0 for 3 with 2K’s
    3. OF – Jon Singleton (Clearwater)- (.283) –1 for 4 with an RBI (31)
    6. C – Sebastian Valle (Clearwater) – (.335) – 0 for 4 with a K
    8. RHP – Vance Worley (Phillies) – (3-1, 2.57) – 7 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB and 5 K’s (win)
    10. RHP – Justin De Fratus (Lehigh Valley) – (0-0, 7.36) – 2 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 Bb and 3 K’s
    11. RHP – Julio Rodriquez (Clearwater)- (8-6, 3.49) – 6.2 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB and 11 K’s (loss)
    12. 2B – Cesar Hernandez (Clearwater) – (.253) – 0 for 4
    13. OF – Domingo Santana (Lakewood) – (.264) 0 for 2 with a run, BB and K
    15. OF – Aaron Altherr (Williamsport) – (.304) – 1 for 4 with a run, 2 RBI (7), 2 SB (4), BB and K
    18. OF – Jiwan James (Clearwater) – (.263) – 1 for 4 with a run and a K
    24. 1B – Matt Rizzotti (Reading) – (.286) – 0 for 3 with a BB and K
    25. RHP – Austin Hyatt (Reading) – (7-5, 4.18) – 6 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 Bb and 5 K’s (win)
    27. OF – Miguel Alvarez (Lakewood) –(.282) – 2 for 3 with a BB and SB (11)
    28. OF – Kelly Dugan (Williamsport) –(.267) – 0 for 2 with a BB and K
    29. RHP – Josh Zeid (Reading) – (2-3, 6.44) – DNP


    1B – Cody Overbeck (Lehigh Valley) – (.150) 1 for 4 with a K
    2B/DH – Cody Asche (Williamsport) – (.273) 0 for 3 with a run and BB
    3B – Maikel Franco (Williamsport) – (.341) – 3 for 3 with an RBI (8) and BB
    SS – Freddy Galvis (Redding) – (.265) –0 for 3 with a K
    SS – Jair Morelos (VSL) – (.315) – 2 for 4 with an 2 RBI (19) and a K
    OF – John Mayberry (Lehigh Valley) – (.287) – 2 for 5 with a 2B (8), run and K
    OF – Derrick Mitchell (Redding)- (.279) – 1 for 4 with an RBI (51) and 2 K’s
    OF – Zach Collier (Lakewood) – (.268) – 0 for 4 with a run, BB and 2 K’s
    OF – Anthony Hewitt (Lakewood) – (.241) – 1 for 4 with a 2B (12), run, 2 RBI (32), BB and 2 K’s
    OF – Brian Pointer (GCL) – (.313) – o for 5 with an RBI (7) and a K
    OF – Herlis Rodriguez (VSL) – (.300) – 1 for 5 with a run 2 K’s
    RHP – Justin Friend (Redding) – (0-0, 3.86, 2 SV) – 0.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB and a K (save)

  14. July is nearly upon us. Discussions will soon turn to which prospects are trade bait and which are untouchable. Since Ruben implies that the Phils have to stand pat for many millions of reasons, then it seems very likely that a trade will occur. It’s the old– watch what the left hand is doing while the right hand is the one you should be watching. It seems impossible to me that all the CLW starters will still be Phils prospects if a right-handed bat is acquired. Which one(s) can, might or will go? Is Singleton untouchable? Which relief pitchers would you want to stay? There are a stack of them which we need at this very moment but you almost never get something for nothing. I will start off by saying, and I’ll take a lot of flak for it, every guy in LHV and Reading can go except Galvis. He’s not the second coming of Rollins or anything like that but he will be needed and nearly everyone else on those rosters has a replacement part who can be had cheaply.

    In ST, I was hoping the Phils would trade Blanton, half his salary and a pack of baseball cards for a bag of used baseballs and a ball girl to be named later. Worley’s the guy and I didn’t need a great outing against the Sox to tell me that. Let’s hope he’s not being dangled to get the RH bat.

    1. I agree with your view on the Clearwater starters. I stated something similar a few days ago. For me, Cosart is an untouchable. Singleton as well. I recall someone opining that they did not see any of the top prospects being dealt. If we consider the Top 10, I’d be shocked not to see one or more moved for a bullpen piece or RH bat.

      CH mentions Colvin, Aumont and James; It’s an interesting trio which would probably return an impact player.

      1. If you asked me to guess which one of these guys is, in the Phillies’ minds, untouchable, believe it or not, I’d pick Jesse Biddle first, and Cosart and Singleton in a tie for second. Jesse Biddle isn’t going anywhere.

        1. I’d really hate to see James get traded and then he puts it all together. He’s one of my favorite prospects , although I do have a thing for the toolsy athletes.

      2. I just don’t believe a RP is what is really needed right now. Until they start fng up, they don’t deserve to be replaced and with Lidge Madson and Contreares all returning before years end. That said, RH OF isn’t going to magically fix itself, so if the phillies want to put all their chips on the table, this is where you do it. We just talked before the season started how strong our RP’s were in the upper minors, use them and quit bitching because they’re performing lights out. (the quit bitching comment isn’t directed at the poster, just generic).

  15. Great job by the class of 2008 draft to shut down a powerful team like the Red Sox. It is a good thing the Phillies are well stocked in the bullpen /relievers to handle these injuries they have had.

  16. I agree, it is time to evaluate which prospects we are going to have to part with for a righthanded bat. I think the untouchables have to include: Cosart, Valle, Singleton, May and Biddle.
    If we had to give up Colvin, I would. He is the furthest away from the majors of the Clearwater guys. I don’t know what it will take to get Cuddyer or Willingham, etc., but we do have some pieces we could include. What we need is a righthanded hitter with some pop who gives a tough at bat in that lineup.

    We are really being hurt by all of the pitching injuries. It has allowed Stutes, Worley and Bastardo to step up, but depletes available trade chips. I would try to piece Colvin, a bullpen arm; Aumont?? and a position guy, James for what that may bring.

    1. Not sure it makes sense to sell Colvin when he’s struggling (unless the Phillies really don’t think he’ll rebound). It would make more sense to trade May, especially if they feel–like many here–that his wildness is going to really hurt him in the upper minors. Sell high, people!

    2. Every year we make our “untouchable” list way to stringent. Ultimately, everyone but the Top prospect at a position of future need and players who are dramatically underperforming is tradeable. As such, my untouchable list is as follows:

      1. Valle (no good catching prospects to replace him, and ruiz only has two years left, preciely when Valle could be ready.).
      2. Colvin (under-performing)
      3. Brown (if you still consider him a prospect) both due to under performance and position of need.

      IMO everyone else is tradable.

      1. I just realized i said exactly the opposite of what i meant… what i meant is we put too many prospects in our untouchable list.

      2. I’d imagine Brown’s untouchable unless it’s a deal for a guy like Upton… They wouldn’t trade him for Pence or someone like that.

  17. Worley really controlled the 0-0 pitch. Only two ball were hit and only one a hit. Growing confidence?

    1. I’d like to see them pick up Cameron. These are the types of moves the Giants made en route to a World Series championship.

  18. Why is Sardinha still with the organization? He can’t hit and is iffy at best defensively. Kratz is clearly better and Gosewich has done enough to earn a promotion to AAA. I say dump Dane and bring up Tuffy.

  19. You want to sell high? Sell Worley…….. Not saying they will or that I would, but he would likely serve as the center piece to bring back a nice piece or two based on his major league readiness and recent success. It comes down to the Phillies belief in his ability to maintain this for years to come and their belief that they really NEED him for playoff success. I would have to believe that the mid-level right handed batting OF will not cost much more than Worley at his present valuation. Last year we got Oswalt, a top notch starter, for Happ and 2 minor leaguers. Trading Worley would, for the most part, serve to preserve the integrity of the rest of the system. Just an interesting thought to consider.

    1. Good point, but I think worley doesn’t have enough of an established track record to warrent that kind of valuation this year. If he finishes the year like he’s started it, and next year this time has compariable numbers, he will for sure be valuable enough for what you’ve proposed.

    2. I wouldn’t trade him for a rental player, only because I have no idea what (if anything) I’ll be getting out of Oswalt and Blanton next year. A young, cheap, and effective backend starter might let us spend money on a left feilder that will be here a few years.

    3. If we trade Worley, who’s our fifth starter? We have Halladay/Hamels/Lee and Kendrick, and then we…hope Blanton comes back healthy?

      1. As devil’s advocate and in rebuttal to the answers above, Management view could be:
        1. either Blanton or Oswalt will be back this year and will serve as the 4th starter in the playoffs. At most, the 4th starter will get 2 starts in the postseason.
        2. we want to win now because the core is aging and the reality is Worley is not an integral piece for this year.
        3. we are not worried about our 4th starter next year and the year after, we can either use one of our other prospects or buy a middling guy to fill the role.
        4. Worley is hot now, but he overachieving so we should strike now while the iron is hot. Hence, we would rather deal him than the other prospects on the A list.

        Again, I am not a proponent necessarily, but if they do make a trade for a corner OF I might rather Worley and a couple of B prospects go than see 2 of the other A names bandied about be dealt. I do think trading partners will ask about Worley now and that is why RA is getting paid the big bucks.

        1. Is trading Worley even an option? Oswalt’s career might be over and Blanton is still a month away. You have to love Kendrick to consider that move. If we’re talking Hunter Pence, maybe, but you don’t give up your 4th starter for Josh Willingham.

        2. You know, sometimes I read the comments by posters on this site and by local sports columnists and I shake my head in frustration and amazement. I hear all of this urgent clamoring for the team to do whatever is in their power to sacrifice the future at any cost to win now as thecore of the team is aging and the great era may be over.

          Unfortunately, this thinking comes, in large part, from having spent your lives rooting for crappy baseball teams. The idea is that your team’s greatness is like catching lightening in a bottle – it only happens infrequently, it is fleeting and when it is over things will return to a natural state of mediocrity (or worse). I am sorry the utter wretchedness of the teams you have rooted for and the ownership that has run your teams has caused you to feel this way. Stop thinking like that. Just stop it. Do you think Yankees fans, or Lakers Fans, Red Sox, or even Flyers’ fans think like that? Hell no they don’t think like that. They think their team is going to win every year and most years they have a basis for thinking that way. Sure there will be an off year or two here and there, but they expect to win.

          So, start today by expecting your team to stay good – not for just a few years but for the forseeable future.

          1. Catch: Not sure your point here as it relates to trading Worley. By most accounts he is a long term 3rd or 4th starter as a max and 5th starter or maybe a 4th if the others do not return this year. World Series Contenders now and into the future will trade the 4th or 5th starter if needed. I also do not consider trading Worley as a win now at all cost move. If anything, the Phillies (AKA Yankees South) can buy the likes of Worley on an annual basis. They would have to pay 5 million instead of $800k but that is what the Big Boys do. This is more a testimonial to the fact that the fan base expects to be good every year going forward. Teams with a $172 million payroll tend to be competitive.
            We only have to go back to last year when the Phillies traded Happ to find an occasion when the Phillies traded the cheap 4th starter of the future in order to win last year. I bet we could scroll back to last year when people were worried about giving up Happ for the same reasons they would give for being tentative in deciding to trade Worley. The Phillies still did it. To me, it means they might choose to do it again. Not saying they will, just saying that it is possible.

            Although the Phils have a nice farm system, I do think people realize that the ability to produce Utley, Howard, Rollins, Ruiz and Hamels simultaneously does not happen in every prospect cycle. Some of the urgency lies in the realism that this is a golden era for Phililes baseball. It is not an admission that there is no way to continue the success beyond the present core. It may be a thought that we have such a great core, the likes of which we have not seen here since the 70’s, that we should take advantage of the opportunity and not regret maximize the opportunity.

          2. Agree. Can’t make much of that. I disagree about most of what I can glean. The Phillies are built to win now. The Phillies are not in danger of being a bottom dweller any time soon.

            Trading Vancy Worley (which I’m guessing is what’s chafing you a bit) will have very little effect on either of those propositions (winning now or later). He seems like a nice fill-in, and may grow to become a dependable innings eater ala Blanton, but he is not now, nor will he ever be a true difference maker.

            1. Yeah, my comment was not directed at the Worley situation at all – it was a general comment.

              The truly great franchises don’t rebuild, they reload. You don’t need the best farm system, but you do need a good one. And you need resources and a creative GM. They have all of those things and can keep this thing going if they do it right – I guarantee you they can. Every year won’t be great – but they should be able to stay good and have regular peaks. If you want to know what I’m talking about read what Theo Epstein has written about creating great teams – he has this down to an art form.

              By way of example, if you told me 3 years ago that the Phillies would soon have a pitching staff for the ages, I would have thought you were nuts. Well, it happened because they marshaled their resources correctly.

            1. Again- who would be our 4th starter THIS year? Oswalt is most likely done. Blanton might not be 100% all year. Worley isn’t expendable. It’s not about his ceiling or role in 2012: he’ll probably pitch every 5th day for the rest of the year. If you trade Worley, you have to trade prospects to acquire his replacement.

    4. Selling high on Worley isn’t the worst idea in the world. His value to the Phillies right now is as a cheap 5th starter, if/when they let Oswalt walk next year. But in all honesty, 5th starters don’t cost much anyway. Is the right deal comes along, move him before the league catches up to him.

      1. I do think that this would be a decent time to trade Worley in terms of getting a maximum for him; I just don’t see where we’re going to get another pitcher for the rest of the year. There’s no guarantee we get a healthy Oswalt or Blanton pitching well, and if we have to trot out Kendrick and a scrub for 2 games out of 5 I will be somewhat concerned about making the playoffs.

      2. If we spend 5-6 million on the 2011 draft(which is really only 1.5m more than usual) I’d be fine with sacrificing top prospects. I wouldn’t give up Valle or Singleton but basically anyone else. If we gave up elite prospects, they’d probably pick up the guy’s salary, so we should have plenty of cash to spend on draft picks. Guys like May, Collier, Colvin, Santana, Hernandez, Galvis, deFratus, Pettibone all have value & we should be able to pick up a bat for 2 of them a lesser prospect. We’re not trading for an ace here, so it shouldn’t take a kings ransom.

        1. Come to think of it- Rizzotti &/or Overbeck could even appeal to Billy Beane in a Josh Willingham deal…not as a centerpiece of course, but as a 3rd name, like Jeremy Slayden in the Blanton trade. Its unfair to compare Rizzotti & Overbeck to Slayden, but Blanton was more valuable than Willingham. The A’s offense is mostly comprised of fungible types, so they could have use for older, defensively challenged guys with pop. I’m not sure how much Beane’s philosophy has changed, but Julio Rodriguez fit the moneyballish pitcher’s profile. Would a package like Rodriguez, Collier and Rizzotti get it done? Or Colvin, DeFratus, Overbeck? I’m not too familiar with the A’s roster or farm system, but that seems like a very healthy, even generous return.

          1. I take it back- thats waay too much for Willingham. I knew he was struggling this year, but damn- he sucks. I’d still take him, but wouldn’t give up more than one of our top 15 prospects. We should’ve signed Diaz or Francouer during the off-season.

            1. Bite your tongue. You can get Francouer for a box of used batting gloves and some pine tar. And for good reason, he’s worthless.
              Just what the Phils need, another hack who doesn’t take any pitches and walks 2% of his AB’s. Good lord.

          2. Jeremy Slayden was not in the Blanton trade. I think the Phillies eventually just cut him. He was old for his leagues and one-dimensional. The OF in the Blanton trade was the younger Spencer.

            1. Yep, Spencer not Slayden.

              BJ Upton would be hugely preferable to Willingham, Ludwick and the rest of these stiffs we keep hearing about. Upton has worn out his welcome in TB, and they need to make room for Jennings, so it might be a good time to shock them with an offer. Sure, his on base skills have declined over the past few years, but still shows plus power, speed and defense, so he’s a massive upgrade at his worst and huge bargain at his best. Still arb-eligible at the low point of his career, we could try to extend him or let him play for a contract. He could hit 30 hrs in CBP, even 40 if Charlie gets his head right. BJ Upton’s much more than a right-handed outfielder; he could revitalize the offense, transform this club, push us over the top and do it for a decade. Sorry if this trade talk has gone too far- but Upton IS the toolsy outfielder this front office has dreamt about for more than a decade.

  20. Not appropriate for this site, but what the heck: Does anyone know if Cole Hamels hurt his non-pitching hand today on the liner from Adrian Gonzalez? I am not watching the game but saw that David Herndon was pitching in a game in which Hamels gave up no runs through the first 4 innings.

    1. He did hurt it, was removed from the game, but the X-rays were negative and he is listed as day to day, will probably make his next start. (Otherwise Mathieson?).

  21. I see it was his glove hand and, by the way, have I mentioned lately how much David Herndon really sucks when you need him to do anything more than clean up a game where you already behind?

    In any event, this would have been the perfect situation for Scott Mathieson. Perhaps we will still see him if the Phillies can score a run in the bottom of the 5th.

  22. By the way, Carpenter got into trouble but worked out of nicely in the 7th. Phillies didn’t score, so I expect Mathieson to come in.

      1. Mathieson is struggling again, although he pitched out of a bases loaded jam. There is a big difference between the guys who pitched in the first 22 innings of this series and the three relievers who pitched the last 5 innings of this game (Herndon, Carpenter and Mathieson). The Red Sox scored only 1 run in the first 22 innings versus 5 runs in the last 5.

        1. Mathieson has more unintentional variation in the speed of his pitches than almost anyone I can remember. No idea if the FB will be 90 or 97 MPH. Very odd.

            1. It probably suggests that he cannot repeat his mechanics from pitch to pitch which, I would think, would ultimately hurt him. It’s like a guy who is “effectively wild.” It may help him in a start or two but, in the long run, it’s going to hurt him because he cannot command his pitches effectively. Similarly, Mathieson does not seem to be able to control the speed of his pitches – at least he couldn’t today.

  23. funny stuff get rid of worley, why do you know his upside?so far he has been good. better than some of the people who are mention on here. mathieson, and carpenter bye bye, i saw carpenter as i said the other day, he is nothing but a triple a pitcher,mathieson is wild and has no breaking ball. thought he was better than what he has shown, for the last two years, time to cut him, when does amaro stop and get us right hand bat , francisco is toast and so i ibanez.

      1. I’m starting to recognize a pattern with this guy … if it’s who I think it is – a former commenter here who left the board a while ago & who is now apparently returned – this is his style – either illiterate or can’t be bothered to write a grammatically correct sentence. I said a couple of days ago that I thought he was developmentally disabled. Then it occurred to me who he was & I realized that advanced senility was more likely. I would simply ignore him, but he is, in addition to all of that, such a massive asshole that I’m hoping to enrage him to the point that he strokes out on us.

        1. Not to be one to interfere with a dandy literary ‘boxing’ match brewing, but looking at catchers in the minors with big league potential, and I see those Yankee have three seated in the top five as projected by MiLB—-Montero, (AAA) Sanchez, (A) and Romine, (AA)—-has that ever been done before when it comes to catchers?

  24. On “Matty’s” fast ball speed variations: MLB pitchers are advised to vary the speed on their fast balls…which is to confuse hitters. Add in a breaking pitch and you come closer to a 3-pitch arsenal.

    1. Yeah but most pitcher’s fastballs don’t go from 98-91 like that. He may have been throwing a two seam fastball, but generally, doesn’t a pitcher’s velocity hover around 5 miles per hour (like a 91-95 mph fastball).

      1. Matty’s four-seamer is straight as can be, so I imagine even a little movement could make his two-seamer 7 mph slower.

  25. can’t stand not having any offense with this team, even the old reliable arent producing, Really do need to get a right hand bat ,can’t take ibanez or ben anymore. really don’t understand the trading of worley now, really do we know what he could be?

  26. Again poor outfield positioning hurt the Phils. On the critical triple hit by Riddick, why the hell was
    the right fielder in right center against a left handed batter. I could understand a little cheating against a top pitcher but god it was Herndon.
    Nice night by Hewitt.
    Francisco is cooked . Jr. at least can field

  27. Mathieson and Carpenter sure aren’t Stutes and Bastardo in terms of stuff. Not ready to give up on either one as a mid or long reliever but certainly neither one is fit to be a late inning guy. If Mathieson became a starter, I think he’d end up with 100 pitches by the 4th inning.

    Agree with those on Ben. Mayberry could hit at least as much plus is a better OF and has better speed.

    1. to the ombudsman, the comment above was not mine. bring up your own comments rather than trying to correct everyone elses. their is not a minor leaguer who is untouchable at least, a philly. if you say singleton or cosart is and for the sake of argument i say i,ll give you mike stanton or stephan drew would you say no. buy low sell high and trade anyone who makes your team better. with very few exceptions the guys your talking about grow on trees, and not just the phillies but all minors. what the phillies need is a slow infusion, like pence, of young talent that is major league talent that is proven. and to the crafty larry how much wailing and knashing of teeth did you go thru to wish a stroke on someone. mature my friend.

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