85 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 25 May 2011

  1. After 19 innings, I don’t blame you. The full boxscore is fine with me. I usually open another browser and look at the full boxscore anyway.

    Cosart must have been dealing last night. He had 9Ks in 5 2/3 but he had 2 wild pitches and Valle has 2 PBs. He must have had a ton of movement on his pitches. Savery and Catro had 3 hits.

    We must have been caught up in the rapture. Hewitt is hitting .361 in his last 8 games and actually had another BB. Will wonders never cease.

    Rivero must have been reading this forum and how people were calling for his promotion. He went 0 – 4 with 4Ks. Ouch! Has anyone looked at his splits. He’s hitting .346 in away games and .203 in home games. He has more HRs at home than away. He either doesn’t like home cookin’ or he sees that friendly ballpark and tries to knock the cover off the ball every time up.

  2. Anyone else notice Singleton was a 1B? I wonder if the powers that be feel the transition to LF is hindering his hitting?

    1. What I find more interesting is Savery in LF.
      I suspect it was more to get a look at Savery in the OF

      There is no rush on Singleton to advance.
      Savery on the other hand is in a time crunch.

      For any real hope, he needs to be able to play the OF.

    2. I noticed it the night Comcast televised that game. At present he does not have the body type to play OF. Of course that is my opinion but it was worth a shot and maybe with an off season training program it could be revisited.

      But then Ruf needs a place to play not sure what they do there…

      1. Savery – he must work under extreme intensity and monk-like devotion to hope to someday approach the fleet footed gazelles who have earned playing time in MLB Outfields. You know, like Carlos Lee or somebody. Catching a fly ball, a Herculean accomplishment. Start to believe many commenters must have been Outfielders, because the catching of a flyball has morphed into one of the greatest feats of athleticism in Sporting History.

        1. The first time a new outfielder charges a line drive seemingly hit at them only to have it go over their head is a defining moment. You realize its not as easy as catching a pop fly in the back yard.

          1. Marfis, that was awesome because I thought you were dead serious when I first started reading. Murray, guy either has ball skills or he doesn’t (ability to judge the ball in the air in relation to you). If he does, he is 90 percent there. Then you teach him how to turn and run, crow hop and all that good stuff.

            1. You can’t teach speed though and some guys don’t have it.

              There wasn’t much technically wrong with Pat the Bat in left field but he was so slow that everything not hit right to him fell for a hit.

          1. Yes, catching a flyball isn’t overly difficult. Where many guys fall short is that they a) cannot run enough to cover the ground and b) they have noodles for arms.

            I doubt Savery has the 2nd problem but I don’t know if he can run or not.

            Savery’s bigger problem is that corner OF is a POWER position, which is why the Carlos Lee’s and Pat Burrell’s of the world are tolerated as sub-standard defensive players.

            A .300 average singles hitters just don’t hold down permanent jobs in LF..

  3. Hewitt with his 15th SB and Claypool with 1 run over 7 innings with 11Ks. Those were the surprises of the day for me.

      1. was that it. I admit you hung with cliff lee today but only because he keeps leaving cutters up in the zone, and because Jay Bruce is the new Eric Davis.

  4. I went to the clearwater game last night. Cosart was very good. He ran out of gas in the 5th but he def has great stuff. They didnt have a radar gun to look at but his first pitch had people around me say wow that was fast. The first couple innings he threw all fastballs and they got a couple hits but when he started throwing the offspeed pitch after he got ahead the hitters were all overmatched. Singleton faced leftys the whole game. He didnt have anything to show for it but he hit a couple hard and seemed to hang in there against them. Valle got robbed twice, once by the centerfielder and once by the second basemen. The Marlins second basemen made 2 of the best plays ive ever seen. Grabbed a grounder on the run kept the ball in his glove and flipped it between his legs to the shortstop and turned the doubleplay. I almost clapped but my loyalty wouldnt allow it. Cloyd has real good stuff. Seemed to be as fast as Cosart. He came in with 1st and 3rd 2 outs and mowed down the batter. Not a scout or a writer just sharing my thoughts.

      1. Cosart reached his pitch count early last night so that’s why they pulled. listen on radio and they said had lots of movement on pitches last night….

        1. I didnt know the pitch count but he was starting to leave pitches up and the batters were starting to make better contact. Cosart did have good movement, Valle was having some trouble staying with Cosarts stuff. If Cosart stays healthy Phils could have a real good player in a few years.

  5. Lessons for me from last night’s game.

    1. Baez can still pitch. I don’t think he will be cut to make room for Schwimer or Mathieson or Zagurski, etc.

    2. Herndon has turned the corner. They will probably send him down when they activate Contrereas, but I think he will be back sooner than later.

    3. The person who should be cut is Romero. That was a sad performance, walking all three batters that he faced. At least he threw a strike on the pickoff play.

    4. Both Mayberry and Brown stepped up a bit. Mayberry was 2 for 4 and Brown hit some balls hard and his walk was a key in the winning inning.

    5. Madson did a good job of shaking off the last game. Closer mentality!

    1. If only Brown would’ve hit the ball hard in the 9th inning the game would’ve been over about 10 innings sooner.

      1. I may get crushed for saying this but I did say it a few days ago as well. Brown feels to much pressure I don’t see him ever becoming a big moment player.

        Its the only way you can explain the sucess he has had in minor ball with the lack there of in his two big league stints. Gosh I sure I hope I am wrong but I have seen this type of player way to many times.

        I hope Charlie learned from that lesson. He should have left Francisco in to take that AB in the 9th. That type of failure again could very well crush this kids career.

        1. Wow, nothing like jumping to conclusions here. Crush his career? It was a regular season game … that they won! I can remember being young and having to make presentations in front of management and being SCARED TO DEATH. I shook, I stuttered … but I learned to relax, got better. Maturity and self confidence are wonderful things … give the kid a chance.

        2. Brown is not ready for the majors, he can not handle it. The fact is he did not hit well before his injuries and he’s not playing well now. People make excuses for him. Bottom line he is a minor league player, not major. I agree Francisco should have taken that AB.

        3. ” I have seen this type of player way to many times.”

          If you mean a mythical player with major league talent but who freezes in big moments, in 40 years as a fan I have seen zero such players. Please name 3.

          You are an idiot

          1. He did not freeze in a big moment, he’s been playing bad since he moved up to the majors. Some players are better playing in the minors than in the majors.

            1. Seriously? He got maybe 3 ab’s a week and 1 start last year.

              Chase Utley didn’t light the world on fire when he came up. He hit what? .210?

            2. I realize we are beating a dead horse here, but I wonder what some of the guys around here would have said about this guy who started his Phillies career in almost 500 PA over parts of 2 seasons thusly:


              Should have sent the bum back to the minors.

        4. “Its the only way you can explain the sucess he has had in minor ball with the lack there of in his two big league stints.”

          Going to be a little more substantive this time, not that I regret my completely on point earlier comments.

          No, there are two or three much more compelling explanations. One, sample size. Two, the adjustment period many/most players undergo when they first reach the majors. The way he was used last year might also be a contributing factor – there is evidence that part time play reduces effectiveness. I would say certainly each of the first two explanations comes into play, and maybe the third.

          This year – he’s had 18 AB. It’s absurd to draw ANY kind of conclusions from 18 AB, but if you want to play that game at all, he has good K and BB numbers, and his line drive percentage is decent (around 20%) . Last year he had some bad BB/K data, which would be genuinely concerning if it was persistant over (say) 500 AB, though almost meaningless over less than 100 AB. But even that, so far this year, has not been a problem (3 BB, 4 K). I know some of you still don’t accept BIP data as meaningful, but he has a BABIP so far of .214, which … well, that low is ALWAYS mainly luck, but it is especially when the LD data is decent. (And there is every reason to belive that Brown, who is fast (infield hit today) and a line drive hitter, will stabilize his BABIP over .300.) As for power, 2 of his 3 hits have been for extra bases.

          Again, this stuff doesn’t mean much of anything over 18 AB – my point is that EVEN IGNORING the inherent sample size issues, he has been just fine so far.

          1. After going on so much about small sample size, I don’t want to go to far along the “I told you so” road, but 6-10 later …

    2. Lesson’s from yesterday’s game: people who derive these kinds of conclusions from one game are innumerate.

        1. Just to be clear, I never said he was unclutch or would never be clutch or couldn’t handle the majors, etc. I simply stated a fact that if he had hit the ball hard instead of straight up into the air in the 9th, the game would’ve ended then. I have every faith that this kid is going to be a good major league ball player.

          That being said, I do question the decision to send him up there as a pinch hitter. I think if he had started the game, I would’ve let him hit. But to come into that situation as a pinch hitter…let’s just say that if I were Charlie I would not have done it.

  6. That was a high pressure situation for the kid. I think he was trying too hard because he threw his bat into the stands. He also tried to leap for Bruce’s homerun and he ended up falling down. He had no shot at catching that ball. You don’t break into the big leagues and start picking up game-winning hits. He has to build a foundation first.

    1. was that it. I admit you hung with cliff lee today but only because he keeps leaving cutters up in the zone, and because Jay Bruce is the new Eric Davis.

  7. I get that Baez has sucked and I don’t disagree with that. However the story in the paper talked about what a great clubhouse guy he is and how he acts as a mentor to the younger pitchers like Stutes. With knowing that info, he really isn’t that bad as the last option in the bullpen. plus despite his struggles in the 7th and 8th innings, I think he is more of a 14th thru 18th inning guy.

    1. Charlie was getting interviewed and talked about how much he loved him. He was saying that he loved managing him on the Indians and he kept trying to get him right when he came to Philly and when he finally was a free agent, Charlie made sure Rube got him.

      1. That tells you how 95% of baseball lifers think. It’s all about loyalty, developing a sense that someone did it for you back in the day and you want that guy with you when you walk up a dark alley, etc., etc. Some of that sentiment is fine, and keeps players loyal to the guy giving them a chance. But you can take it too far. Charlie also has a a long leash on most players. Also, good. Also can be taken too far. We’ll see what develops with Baez this year. So far mostly bad or mediocre. A few good outings, just enough to keep Charlie on the line.

        1. There is an ancient proverb that “Your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness.” I really believe that is true with many of us.

  8. 1. OF – Domonic Brown (Phillies) – (.071) 0 for 4 with a BB and a K
    2. RHP – Brody Colvin (Clearwater)- (0-1, 4.96) – DNP
    3. OF – Jon Singleton (Clearwater)- (.252) –0 for 3 with a run, BB and 2 K’s
    4. RHP – Jared Cosart (Clearwater) – (5-3, 2.87) – 5.2 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 2 BB and 9 K’s (win)
    5. RHP – Trevor May (Clearwater)- (3-2, 4.13) –DNP
    6. C – Sebastian Valle (Clearwater) – (.302) – 0 for 4 with a run
    7. LHP – Jesse Biddle (Lakewood) – (2-5, 4.78) – DNP
    8. RHP – Vance Worley (Phillies) – (2-0, 2.14) – DNP
    9. OF – Tyson Gillies (Reading) – DNP
    10. RHP – Justin De Fratus (Reading) – (2-0, 2.82, 4 SV) – 2 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 R, 0 BB and 0 K
    11. RHP – Julio Rodriquez (Clearwater)- (5-3, 2.50) – DNP
    12. 2B – Cesar Hernandez (Clearwater) – (.194) 0 for 4 with a run
    13. OF – Domingo Santana (Lakewood) – (.270) DNP
    14. RHP – JC Ramirez (Reading) – (5-3, 3.00) – DNP
    15. OF – Aaron Altherr (Lakewood) – (.198) – 1 for 4 with 2 K’s
    16. RHP – Jon Pettibone (Clearwater) – (4-3, 1.98) – DNP
    17. C – Cameron Rupp (Lakewood) – (.225) – 1 for 4 with a run and 2 K’s
    18. OF – Jiwan James (Clearwater) – (.242) – 1 for 4 with an RBI and 3 K’s
    19. 2B – Harold Garcia (Reading) – Out for the season with a torn ACL
    20. RHP – Kevin Walter – Season hasn’t started
    21. RHP – Colby Shreve (Lakewood) – (2-3, 4.25) – DNP
    22. RHP – Phillippe Aumont (Reading) – (0-3, 3.27, 3 SV) – 1 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB and a K (loss)
    23. RHP – Michael Schwimer (Lehigh Valley) – (2-0, 2.10, 1 SV) – DNP
    24. 1B – Matt Rizzotti (Reading) – (.333) – 0 for 4 with 2 K’s
    25. RHP – Austin Hyatt (Reading) – (5-3, 4.31) – DNP
    26. OF – Leandro Castro (Clearwater) – (.273) – 3 for 4 with HR (6), 3B (3), 2 runs and 2 RBI
    27. OF – Miguel Alvarez (Lakewood) –(.273) – DNP
    28. OF – Kelly Dugan – Season hasn’t started
    29. RHP – Josh Zeid (Reading) – (2-3, 5.19) – DNP
    30. RHP – Percival Garner – Season hasn’t started


    1B – Cody Overbeck (Reading) – (.275) 0 for 4 with a K
    3B – Carlos Rivero (Reading) – (.276) – 0 for 4 with 4 K’s
    3B – Geancarlo Mendez (Lakewood) – (.259) 0 for 3 with a K
    SS – Freddy Galvis (Redding) – (.247) – 2 for 4 with a K and a SB (6)
    OF – Derrick Mitchell (Redding)- (.246) – 2 for 4 with a HR (7), 2 RBI and a K
    OF – Joe Savery (Clearwater) –(.331) – 3 for 4 with 2 RBI
    OF – Anthony Hewitt (Lakewood) – (.268) – 1 for 3 with a BB and a K
    RHP – Justin Friend (Clearwater) – (0-0, 1.27, 16 SV) – DNP
    RHP – Tyler Cloyd (Clearwater) – (3-1, 2.82) – 2.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB and a K
    RHP – David Buchanan (Lakewood) – (6-2, 2.21) – DNP
    RHP – Garett Claypool (Lakewood) – (1-2, 2.30) – 7 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB and 11 K’s (win)
    RHP – Lisalberto Bonilla (Lakewood) – (0-1, 1.47, 1 SV) –DNP

  9. Rosenberg ! Good things happen when you keep an open mind. So interesting to see how this plays out.
    My vote Romero leaves. He may be a trade item if you don’t expect anything much back.

    1. Romero should be used differently (LOOGY) but not released.

      I’ve defended Baez to a limited extent, and it feels odd to say this just when he has gotten his ERA in a decent place, but I would think he should be the odd man out when Lidge returns, unless someone else goes down before then.

      1. Well, there it is. Everything I see on the reports on Lidge are that it will take at least one month, I’d put it more at 2. Alot can happen in a month or two. Why all the big concern about something that far off. Of more immediate interest should be the return of Victorino. No one should say anything concerning the 2 reserve middle infielders going. 2 are needed because only one puts a cramp on in-game management, and such a move would leave 3 basic OF’s in reserve in Francisco, Mayberry, and Gload- with just one IF and one C. The reserves should be Mayberry (who offers adequate and above defense in CF and 1B) and Gload (LH pinch hitter and fill-in). That leaves Ben Francisco . Believe he could be shipped out, because he doesn’t make much coin, and could contribute to another team. Read that Cleveland is lacking in depth and such, so they, being familiar with Francisco and if they will have him back, can be the destination. They can ship Francisco to Cleveland with minor league defensive oriented SS Bocock to Cleveland for Josh Rodriguez SS, 3B, LF. Have not looked at Rodriguez’ numbers so far this season, but, he has done well at times in past. (If he has gone backwards performance wise or is injured in some major way, they could switch him with another Cleveland AAA guy, and switch up Bocock with player at position other Cleveland AAA guy plays). Main thing to remove the salary and roster spot of Ben Francisco.

  10. larry i know one mike anderson,. if he didnt make it , I just would never believe it and he stunk. tons of talent in minors mvp triple crown i believe.And man in numate nice word had to look it up. lmao.

    1. Sure, there are plenty of minor league stars who never make it in the majors. None or virtually none of them fail because they “feel to much pressure [to] becom[e] a big moment player.” Or for similar psychological reasons. They fail for some of the following:

      (1) Injuries,
      (2) Lack of a fair opportunity,
      (3) Can’t hit the breaking ball,
      (4) Minor league stats were an illusion of context,
      (5) Can’t make the adjustments successful players need to make.

      I’m certainly missing some. “Can’t take the pressure” is not often if ever the reason.

      Now, that said there is no guarantee that Brown will make it. But:

      (1) His performance to date gives no reason the believe he won’t;
      (2) His performance to date does not mean that he needs more time in the minors;
      (3) If he doesn’t make it, “can’t take the pressure” is unlikely to be the reason.

      On top of all of that, people seem to forget he is recovering from an injury that often takes a LONG time to recover fully from. Not that I’m using that as an excuse for him; he doesn’t NEED an excuse. But if he does end up with disappointing numbers this year, that’s the first place I would look.

      1. All good points. Points out the difference between viewing things with, patience, experience, and wisdom and knee-jerk, impatient reactions. Bottom line is we don’t know what Brown’s career will be like, just that he seems to have a high, all-star ceiling and pretty likely to be at least an average overall regular. But these are just educated guesses. It has to play out fully before you go off the handle characterizing a player, as if a few early ABs tell all.

        1. I am not down on Brown. He has mostly been hitting the ball well so far. He seems to have a good eye for the strike zone so far. If he looked overmatched it would be one thing, but I have seen nothing so far that can’t be attributed to just needing some more experience.

  11. Freddie Freedman was hitting .227 on May 18. He’s batting .247 for the year. Not every rookie is a Jason Heyward or Buster Posey. They take time to develop. I think it’s absurd for people to dub Brown a “bust” or things of that nature.

  12. Ah Cheese I agree with Larry and it hurts a little. With these standards Sandberg would of never gotten to stay in the Majors.

    1. Nowheels, you win the award for the most evolved/evolving poster. I remember when you went off the handle on a player at times. Now you take the long and wise view. I congratulate you, budnik.

    1. Pettibone trying to show that his name should be listed as top pitching prospect in the organization. He might the first to go to AA.

    2. Pettiboner at full mast.

      I think LaMar said he did not have the same stuff as May, Cosart, or Colvin, but really knew what he was doing out there. If that is the case, I see no reason not to promote him first if he continues this way and the opportunity arises. I do think he will spend most of the year in A+, though.

  13. for reals. i’m starting to get intrigued by collier, too. unlike Hewitt, who we’ve seen struggle over the years, injuries have kept us from seeing any of zach, another raw but gifted player. considering his pedigree as a 1st round pick, age(still only 20), his current stats ( 0.750+ OPS, 11 stl), and lack of experience, I’m surprised more people haven’t been talking about him. Theoretically, shouldn’t he be considered a better prospect than James? Younger, better numbers, higher pedigree, similar athletic upside (small sample size, i know i know), but still?

  14. Too small a sample on Brown. However, when Vic comes back and Gloud is healthy he’ll go back to LHV were he can get abs. He’ll start 2012 in RF for the big club.

    You need 2 loogies, but man has JC been bad.

    Who’s the Phils top loogy prospect?

    1. I dont think Brown is going anywhere when Victorino comes back. Hes the right fielder now. Sink or swim.

      Ive been impressed with his approach this call up. A lot more patient.

  15. Brown was/is a great prospect. It is certainly possible he does not live up to that potential. Gavin Floyd continued to have failed promotions and finally had to be traded (probably for less value) to get out of his funk.

    Brown has the added difficulty that he is trying to hold down a spot on a championship caliber club. It will be tough to leave him in there when the team is incapable of scoring runs and some acceptable alternatives exist in Francisco and Mayberry. Freeman may eventually have to give way to Hinske.

    Compare Brown to Stutes, who looking impressive during Spring Training and has performed great in his opportunities. Considering roster/salary, he should be sent down with Lidge’s return but he is probably the second best bullpen pitcher right now. Cutting Romero makes most sense but Kendrick could be optioned if Baez becomes the “longman”.

  16. I gotta say that Romero is definitely my least favorite person to see come in a game. We say LOOGY but look at his splits – they are equal for righties and lefties, and unfortunately “equal” as in “equally bad”. Really hate to go there, but since getting snagged for steroids he’s really been mediocre. I don’t know if we have a decent LOOGY in the minors – I’m not sure at the minors level they really set someone up that way?

  17. Wow – very topical on some of the posts in this thread. Went to ESPN and saw an article about potential June call-ups. Here is the first line of the article:

    “I remember I was a scared rookie, hitting .220 after the first three months of my baseball season, and doubting my ability.” — Hall of Famer Carl Yastrzemski

    Notice the “Hall of Famer” thing. Surely not saying Dom Brown is a Hall of Famer – but for those of you (or maybe one of you) saying he’s a “minor league wonder” maybe re-read that quote – and then take a long breath and relax.

  18. How many chances does Romero get to show that he’s worth something? Patience IS called for with players who usually have hot and cold periods during a season. Still, Romero is no new guy; he’s been at the ML level for years…but loses his job because he can’t throw good strikes.

    Surely, (“Don’t call me Shirley”) Charlie has a lot of patience, especially with veterans, but his willingness to hang in there with guys should have its limits. The problem comes down to who would then replace him with as the situational lefty pen guy. The time to go shopping should soon arrive; by July there should be a change in that role…unless Romero suddenly finds good parts of the strike zone.

    Oh,yes: it may be time to give up on Dieckman.

  19. Romero’s good when he throws strikes. The problem is he doesn’t do it that often.

    You can’t replace Romero because Zags hasn’t shown that he’s the better option and they’re not going to waste their money trading for a guy when they have Bastardo.

  20. Folks, there is no guarantee that Dom Brown is going to be an excellent major league player, but he’s got most of the hallmarks of a fine player. There is a gestation period for stars. It often takes, 2, 3, or 4 years. In Barry Bonds’ 4th year in the majors he hit .248. I’ve actually been quite impressed with Brown. He can launch a ball, he’s got a rocket arm (I was at CBP today when he casually made a rocket throw to third – he barely exerted himself – it was amazing), he’s fast, he really does have quite a good eye, he’s a hard worker and appears to be very mature. Nobody has a crystal ball, but he’s an excellent prospect. For crying out loud, give him a little time.

  21. All of this concern over Romero is a little over the top. He is nothing but the 11th pitcher on the team. No reason to complain on a minor league site about Romero, because there is no LH reliever at AAA that is any better than him. The problem with Romero (besides being mediocre) is Cholly keeps using him as more than a loogy. At this point in his career, Romero should get ONE (1) batter, and sit down. But again, their is nothing better in AAA, so complaints about Romero seem better placed on the major league sites.

  22. I have real problem with a loogy,who cant get out hitters,and that is romero,,he is just too wild, rather have a righthander with a good sinker than him,agree dont like our left handers at triple aaa, but to carry a extra pitcher like romero just because he is lefthand is dumb in my opinion. pettibone is really coming on love to see how he handles the higher competition, never seen him so really dont know anything about his stuff or makeup,except what is said on here,hope to see him pitch at reading in person.

  23. holy domingo santana. the farm is having an excellent year so far. out of our pre-season Top 30 (and this is without Hewitt/Collier), almost everyone except Colvin (injured, trending up after his last start), Singleton (still only 19 in A+), Gilles (coming back Tuesday, so that’s excellent by his standards), Hernandez (still only 20 in A+), Altherr, Rupp, James (OK), Shreve, and Zeid are NOT having good to fantastic starts. oh, and the big league club is doing OK too

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