May 3rd, Box Score Roundup

Lets get right to it.

Reading wins 4-3.

Gillies: 2/5
Brown: 2/3, 2B, BB, SB
Galvis: 1/4

Flande: 6.1 IP – 3 ER – 10 H – 0 BB – 4 K
Schwimer: 1.1 IP – 0 ER – 1 BB – 1 K

Check below for the rest….

Clearwater wins 3-1.

Gose: 0/2, 2 BB, CS
Overbeck: 1/4

JC Ramirez: 7 IP – 1 ER – 4 H – 1 BB – 7 K (5 GB/7 FB)
De Fratus: 2 IP – 1 BB – 2 K

Lakewood loses 6-1.

JJ: 1/6
Castro: 1/5
Valle: 1/5
Santana: 0/5, BB
Villar: 0/6

Pettibone: 7 IP – 0 ER – 2 H – 2 BB – 5 K

73 thoughts on “May 3rd, Box Score Roundup

  1. Dom continues to dominate AA pitching. The kid is the real deal. If he keeps this up all year, we won’t have to worry about Werth leaving for 2011. Sure, that’s a lot of lefties in a row, but Utley doesn’t really seem to be struggling against LHPs anymore and Dom has blasted on LHPs all year.

  2. Also, gotta love the progress JC Ramirez is making this year. He might very well turn out to be the steal of that trade. The peripherals look great, but he really needs to improve against lefties.

  3. Hate to say it, and maybe he can turn it around, but it’s starting to look like Domingo Santana just isn’t ready for Low-A. The walks are nice, but he’s still 3 for his last 35 with 19 Ks (oy). I expect they’ll send him to Williamsport when the short-season leagues start.

  4. It is funny how we seem to alter our attention away from Brown a little as he has been around for a few years and we are drawn to the newer guys. However, to hear someone say Brown could be next year’s Jason Heyward is pretty exciting. He is making me pay attention to him now. Glad to see we held onto him.

  5. Ramirez bounced back from a bad outing. I like to see that. Pettibone’s line was pretty nice too. Gillies is starting to feel comfortable and moving to the #2 hole will take some additional pressure off him. I think moving Galvis down will help him too.

    The South American leagues have posted their schedules. VSL starts on May 18. DSL opens on May 29. I’m hoping to see AndyB’s take on those leagues in the coming weeks.

  6. Something from Clearwater, I see that Susdorf played 1B and Murphy played LF, Rizzotti still the DH. Could have worked Susdorf pre-game to play 1B from the opening of season and made the move now. Maybe they will play Susdorf at 1B now, and they could alternate Murphy and Rizzotti in LF.

    Looks like Hewitt is still injured from the falling in the OF the other day for Lakewood.

  7. Pettibone did have a nice looking start, but not as many Ks as one would like. Anyone at the game? Radar readings on him? The last time he pitched, people reported lower velocity than I would have thought.

  8. you gotta be kidding about not having any righties in the lineup. werth is the reason we dont see a steady diet of lefties now. without him teams would stack their lineups and utley and howard and the unproven brown would have their lives made miserable. they wouldent see a fastball all season.

  9. Can someone shed some light on how Flande continues to succeed at AA… at least at face value (era)?

  10. John is right. Having that many lefties would be a big problem. I guess Francisco or Mayberry could platoon with either Ibanez or Brown, but the best course is to resign Werth.

  11. Pettibone had another outstanding effort. He needed 99 pitches over 7 inning for a two hit, no run performance . According to Greg’s radio reports his fastball was sitting between 90-92 and he was locating and mixing his pitches well. He tired a bit in the 7th giving up his only 2 walks to go with 5 strike outs in the game. At least one of his K’s was on a change up. Zeid almost closed out a 1-0 game throwing fastballs at 94-95 but a two out, two strike double cost him a run and the save in the 9th.

  12. Wanted to mention Tim Kennelly who has some interesting numbers after he drove in what turned out to be the winning run in last night’s Threshers game with a long 2 rbi double to center in the eight. After a slow start he is hitting .300 over his last 10 games and for the season he is 7 for 14 with 7 BB, no stike outs and 8 rbi’s with runners in scoring position.

  13. I would resign Werth, but I think they are more concerned about Rollins. The option is to trade Ibanez for a different bad one year contract, Magglio Ordonez for example. Mags and Dominic Brown would make less then Ibanez and Werth. Then Mags goes away and hopefully they have another outfielder ready. Maybe Mayberry and Gillies platoon. I think they want Rollins, Utley and Howard to be longtime Phillies, which makes for tough decisions in the outfield. Maybe that is why they have drafted outfielders so frequently.

  14. Pettibone’s velocity is ok right where it is now. I’d rather have him pick up a few mph over the next 3 years than have it now. That’s the frame he’s built for. If he threw harder in high school, he would have gone higher in the draft. He is currently efficient with his pitches and keeps hitters off-balance, moving the ball around. He’s doing just fine and should be in Philly in 2014.

  15. Rollins is under contract through 2011. He’s the kind of guy you want to wait and see on to see what kind of contract his performance justifies.

    One thing is for certain and that is the Phillies will not be in a hurry to discard their established stars in favor of the minor leaguers. Especially when the minor league stars have not yet reached AAA.

  16. Nice to see Gillies getting it back together – three multi-hit games out of the last four. It was also good to see our favorite blogger (The Schwiminator) have a good outing.

    I was planning on going to see the R-Phils for their Father’s Day game. I wonder if Domonic Brown will still be on the team at that point

    – Jeff

  17. For once I agree with John 100% (about the bad effects of replacing Werth with a leftie, even one as talented as Brown). But unfortunately I don’t see them signing Werth, especially after the Howard contract. (Parenthetically, I think people here who see the Howard contract as a sign that the team is MORE likely to sign Werth are seriously mistaken).

    The most likely possibility: Mayberry replaces Werth in 2011 (not advocating it, just predicting it) and Brown replaces Ibanez in 2012.

    If they can unload Ibanez then the above predictions may be off, but I’m not holding my breath.

  18. If pettibone is at 90-92 at nineteen, I think he might have a real good chance to add some velocity, but where are his secondary pitches, that will tell if he ever becomes a real good prospect or not in my opinion.

  19. Rickey, thanks for the update on Pettibone. Good to hear he is throwing something besides a fastball to strike guys out! Also nice to see walks kept to a minimum.

    I’m going to generalize here, but I’m pretty sure that pitchers rarely add velocity in their 20s, and Pettibone turns 20 in two months.

    I noticed the same thing about kennelly, hopefully he has his head on straight again.

  20. I think at this point Brown is well ahead of a 2012 debut as a fulltime starter.

  21. I guessed Pettibone was throwing 90-92 at the Greensboro game last week. I see his low 90s much like Happ’s. It has some nice little late action and hitters seem to have a tough time with it. Plays more like mid- 90s. It’s not all about raw velocity.

    Looks like he repeated last week’s solid effort–a good sign.

  22. I hate to sound like nowheels here, but possibly the only thing holding Dom Brown back at this point is that the Phillies don’t seem to like playing youngsters. My guess is that Brown will probably spend about a year and a half in Lehigh before becoming a regular in the Majors partway through 2012. It’s unfortunate because he will probably be ready by the end of the year.

    – Jeff

  23. A year and a half in Lehigh? We haven’t had a talent like Brown come up through the system in…maybe ever? If we held him back that long fans would riot.

  24. wouldn’t be surprised to see a Brown/Francisco or Mayberry platoon in RF next year. They could ease in Brown much the same way the did Utley with Polanco.

    also wouldn’t surprise me if they re-signed Werth though, despite the Howard contract. They are likely going to sell out every game this year and possibly next as well. they’ve shown they will spend the money if they have it.

  25. JEFF Take two aspirins sooner or later you will see the wisdom in the Nowheels ideas.

    e.g. Remember when everyone was so upset when I said they should promote Knapp and cuts his innings. Just because some don’t agree say what you see

  26. imo werth will be resigned to a 4 year deal at 18 mil. ibanez will not be on the team next year. brown will. i also dont believe rollins will finish his career as a phillie, unfornunatly, 2012 he is gone. apossible surprise look for vic to be traded for pitching next year.

  27. Pete,

    On the platoon with Brown next year, I wouldn’t rule it out (though not in April to avoid the super 2), but the difference from the Utley situation is that it was less evident that Utley was going to be a star, so delaying arbitration and FA was less of an issue with Utley. Not interested in again getting into whether they SHOULD care so much about those issues, but teams in general and the Phillies in particular clearly do; when was the last player who was that highly regarded (again, Utley wasn’t at the time) brought up in a platoon role? Agree that if Brown keeps performing at this level, gets promoted, and also hits AAA pitching the same, they will have a tough time making him repeat AAA next year. If that happens, I bet they try to move Ibanez, though good luck with that.

    As for resigning Werth, you can talk about sell outs all you want, but whether the revenue is “really” there or not (none of us really knows), the Phillies just jumped their payroll a LOT, and are likely going to have to bump it higher next year even if Werth isn’t resigned. I suspect resigning Werth, along with other already built in salary increases & arbitrations, would bump next year’s payroll over 160 million (its 135 million just for 17 signed players, not including Werth and the back end of the roster). I can’t see that happening. I don’t like the math any better than you do, but I would be surprised to see Werth signed. Though for the record, depending upon the size and length of the contract, it would be a pleasant surprise.

  28. John,

    I disagree on Werth, I don’t think they would do that and I think he (mistakenly?) thinks he might do better in the FA market), but I wouldn’t mind seeing that.

    As for Ibanez, I’m sure the Phillies would like to dump his contract at this point, and it would even make the Werth signing more likely. But who is going to take him off our hands at that price? It’s a horrible contract at this point. Would they really just cut him loose and take that much of a hit?

  29. What might be a more likely scenario for the Brown/Ibanez/Werth situation would be to trade Ibanez and pay a huge chunk of his salary when Brown is ready to take his place. Since Brown will be playing for the MLB minimum, it could offset the hit from Ibanez’s salary. As to what they should do with Werth, that’s a topic for another forum.

    And Nowheels, I keep a big bottle of Aspirin at my desk. One day, the wisdom will come to me.

    – Jeff

  30. Ibanez has a limited no trade clause, so that complicates any trade possibilities.

  31. what makes the ibanez situation more confusing is his tendency to get hot. but if that happens do you keep him and hope it continues or try to deal him before he cools off? also from what i read mathieson is pitching really well and the only argument against bringing him up is if he can pitch 2 days in a row. thats ridiculous when there are guys in the pen who cant pitch 1 day in a row.

  32. Looks like Werth is going to make it hard for the Phillies, if he keeps playing at this level. Right now, his average is .352, he leads the team in hits and the league in doubles. Not signing him will look bad; signing him will cost a fortune.

  33. I say sign Werth and trade Vic. Bring Brown up and the rest is history. The Phils are making more money now than ever before with all of these sellouts and if they keep the players that bring the fans, then the revenue will continue to flow in.

  34. Didn’t know kids hardly ever add velocity after twenty thanks, second right handers who throw 90-92 better have good secondary pitches to get by in the big leagues. maddux and halladay are rare,as far as ibanez he won the pennant for us with his first half play last year. so its not as bad to me as you make it out, we can unload him if we eat contract,if brown continues how do you keep him down, thats crazy. The thing that kept brown down wasnt his offense its his defense, which they said has improved.

  35. You know, bringing up Brown, trading Vic and keeping Werth next year is very unorthodox, but it’s not a half bad idea.

  36. Can Werth play an acceptable CF? I know he spot-starts there from time to time. How about trading Vic, and having a sweet little Werth/Brown/Ibanez (platoon JMJ or Francisco if he’s still not hitting) OF next season. I’m guessing he’s not good enough in center, but its just an outside the box thought. Whenever i see a ‘trade Vic’ post I always wonder who’s going to replace him in center.

  37. I think the only way to bring back Werth is to also bring up Brown to offset the salary bump Werth will get. So that means trading Ibanez or Victorino… Dont see any other way.

  38. Damn Catch 22, I actually kinda love that idea. Dom Brown is more of a prototypical RF, but I think he can play an acceptable CF if need be in 2011. This is all conjecture, but if put to the task, I’d really favor this sort of move. Not because Vic is bad or anything, it just makes a lot of sense.

  39. ****4 year deal at 18 mil****

    No way Werth gets that…not at his age.

    He’ll be lucky to get what Bay got.

  40. Werth is better than Bay and will command a better contract. I am afraid our window to sign him has closed. Ibanez carried the team early last season so we can’t be too sad about that contract but the Phils would have to eat most of it to move him.
    Brown looks like the real deal but he would be hard pressed to put up the great at bats werth gives us. He sees more pitches than anyone on the team.

  41. Werth will get $16-18 million a year, for at least 4 years and he’s probably worth it (no pun intended).

  42. Moyer’s $7 mil contract up at this season’s end. Ibanez’ is ended at 2012’s end, $10 mil/yr.

    That’s $17 mil available to sign Werth for, with a back-loaded contract.

    IMO, without Werth, that lineup becomes very vulnerable. Besides, he is establishing himself as the of the best all-around players in the game. Signing him almost guarantees (excepting injuries) the team will be a playoff team for the next 3-5 years.

    Brown, if Werth is signed during this season, might then be seen at Reading/Lehigh Valley patrolling left field soon thereafter. Ibanez would share LF with Brown sometime in 2011…assuming he advances to LV for plenty of games there.

    The way Vic could be traded–for plenty I believe–would be only if/when Gillies shows he is the real thing over Reading/Lehigh Valley during this season and next.

    As good as Werth is in the field, he cannot equal Vic’s defense in CF, IMO. Only a guy like Gillies is available to fill that role. Hope he comes up strong in Reading,etc.

  43. Werth and Bay are about even. I think the Phillies give him a back loaded contract. His salary plus Moyers salary for the first year.Then bump it up in years 2-4 or 2-5. I would think 12-14 mill next year then 17-19 mill the next 3-4 years. 66 mill over 4 years, 85 over 5. Does that get it done? How much is Utley getting..I do not know… but he mighgt be a little upset. I look at the numbers and now I think maybe that is too much money.

  44. Colby Shreve That says it all.

    On Werth he still seems to be improving (vs RH) . Odd but where will it stop? Here is a problem. At some point the Phils are locked into a very old team. I am glad it isn’t my call.

  45. Yeah, I thought of that, at some point they turn into the Whiz Kids, ca. 1959.

    Technically , 4 years for 18 million would be 4.5 million a year. That would be way off , as per usual. It should be stated 4 years for 72 million , if the intent was to say 18 million per season.

    The whole left can’t hit left thing is overblown. Nobody says that right can’t hit right, and that is because they face right all the time from the beginning. If the left were to bat against left at all times they would become proficient at it. The 3 left in the lineup all have various levels of proficiency hitting against left and it is not a problem, Brown also bats against both left and right in the minors , and adding him to the 3 current left would not be a problem either.

  46. Marfis, I think if LH hitters were hitting lefties most of the time, they would improve. That’s just logical. However, there are very few if any righties with the slider of a Carlton or Randy Johnson, both of which were unhittable by LH hitters even if they knew it was coming. The ability to throw a pitch that looks like it’s coming at the batter’s head and winds up in the dirt outside is something that lefties seem to have a monopoly on. So I don’t think it will ever be even.

  47. I think we really need to start taking Cody Overbeck seriously. He’s hitting .352 and the power display is just awesome. I agree they should wait until May is over (two full months) before making a promotion, but I’m anxious to see what he can do in Reading. As far as I’m concerned, he the player in the system whose stock has risen the most.

  48. ****Ibanez carried the team early last season so we can’t be too sad about that contract but the Phils would have to eat most of it to move him.****

    half a season of great production justifies a 3 year deal?

    To Art D: We dont “Save” $17 million because all of that money is eaten up in raises. Halladay alone gets about a $11 million raise from this year to next. The Phillies payroll is already pushing $140 million next year before any signings are made. To keep Werth they’d either have to shed payroll significantly or bump their ceiling to the $155-160 million range.

    On Overbeck: Yeah, I’m interested to see what he can do against more advanced pitching. Is this real or is it a case of being old for his league as a college pick?

  49. To Nepp—

    Was making the World Series worth 30 million—-easy for me to say yes but then again very little of it is my money.

    Ageed it will be fun to see if Overbeck can move up to Reading and produce—-Reading is painfully short on position prospects. I have seen them twice this year but Brown was on the shelf both times.

  50. I’m not sure anyone has made a note of this yet, but the radio guys were reporting Cosart hit 98 with his first pitch and sat between 93-96 for most of his outing. I like that guy.

  51. Overbeck just hit another double and a homer in his first two at bats this morning. Hard to believe he is long for the FSL.

  52. ****Was making the World Series worth 30 million—-easy for me to say yes but then again very little of it is my money.****

    If his payroll burden causes them to miss the WS this year or next, will it still be worth it? Its a half-full, half-empty kinda thing.

  53. If Ibanez hit .280-25-90(he is streaky and may get hot) this year. I would pay 5 mil. of his salary, for a bag of balls, saving almost 6 mil, keep werth, platoon francisco, maybery, and dobbs for the first 2 months in left, then slowly turn starting job over to brown.

  54. Just wanted to give a shout out to Carpenter for a nice start against a pretty good hitting AAA team.

    I like that Cosart and Shreve piggy-backed, I hope the Phils do more of that. Glad to hear the velocity reports on Cosart! I was mildly disappointed that Shreve didn’t have more strikeouts, but what a great start he’s had to the season after being on the shelf for so long.

  55. Regarding Ibanez, there were other options out there. Likely the Phils would have made the series anyway with a cheaper option. Heck, our old friend Bobby Abreu was available, much cheaper, and almost as good (good enough that we still would have gotten to the WS). And there were other intermediate options out there, better than Abreu but less costly than Ibanez.

    No, it was simply a horrible contract, any way you look at it.

  56. I would say that Ibanez is unlikely to hit .280-25-90; he’ll pick it up some, but I think he’s pretty much done. Can’t get around on the fastball anymore. So I don’t think we’ll be able to unload him, even paying $5 million in salary.

    Even if we can dump Ibanez, signing Werth is going to mean a $155 million payroll next year, even assuming that virtually nothing beyond the minimum is spent on the back end of the roster. It’s also going to mean a ton of money committed to an aging roster past 2011. I might still do it if I was in charge, but I’m not optimistic that the Phillies will bump the payroll another 15 million. People here forget (or don’t realize) that they already have the 4th highest payroll in the game.

  57. Right Larry I never saw a situation go from so good to so bad so quickly. Maybe if we had been platooned from the start instead of that “gym rat” crap.

    This is why I was so against the MT trade. Subbing someone like Gose would of kept an option open plus saving money.

  58. @LarryM “And there were other intermediate options out there, better than Abreu but less costly than Ibanez.”

    Really? I don’t remember much but if you are thinking Dunn in LF, Bradley in LF, G. Anderson in LF, vs. Ibanez then I take Ibanez. (But I don’t like that contract either, Amaro gives out multi year deals as if he has a gun to his head). I don’t remember other GREAT options though…

    I also had enough of Abreu when he was here. It really ins’t terribly constructive to knock the Phils for not signing him, every other team passed as well…

  59. If you were the other teams, would YOU have taken Gose instead of MT? Not a chance.

  60. are you guys really arguing about a player who, for half the current season(13 games), has hit

    .293/.400/.512 for a .912 OPS

    http://goo.gl/ueIt

    you guys are something else. Ibanez is FINE. he started out cold. a lot of players start out cold. get over it.

  61. Payroll for 2011
    Howard ($20 million)
    Halladay ($20 million)
    Utley ($15 million)
    Ibanez ($11.5 million)
    Lidge ($11.5 million)
    Rollins ($8.5 million)
    Hamels ($9.5 million)
    Blanton ($8.5 million)
    Victorino ($7.5 million)
    Polanco ($5.25 million)
    Madson ($4.5 million)
    Baez ($2.75 million)
    Ruiz ($2.75 million)
    Schneider ($1.5 million)
    Gload ($1.6 million)
    TOTAL : 128.35
    The Phillies also have a $4.5 million option (or $250,000 buyout) for Romero and a $750,000 option (or $50,000 buyout) for Castro.

  62. Four more players will be eligible for free agency:
    Jamie Moyer
    Jayson Werth
    Chad Durbin
    Jose Contreras
    These four account for $18.625M in 2010 salaries. If all six players leave (Romero & Castro), and we include buyouts that will be paid this year to Adam Eaton, Pedro Feliz, and Geoff Jenkins, the Phillies have about $26MM coming off the books.

  63. For some perspective, Howard’s $20 million salary in 2012 is $6 million more than the entire Phillies payroll for the 1990 season.

  64. Shreve doing a great job getting outs with his command and control but fastball was sitting at only 89 last night.

  65. 1990 Philadelphia Phillies
    Salaries

    Von Hayes $2,000,000.00
    Roger McDowell $1,400,000.00
    Dickie Thon $1,100,000.00
    Tom Herr $825,000.00
    Ken Howell $716,667.00
    Lenny Dykstra $700,000.00
    Carmelo Martinez $700,000.00
    John Kruk $655,000.00
    Jeff Parrett $650,000.00
    Randy Ready $520,000.00
    Don Carman $500,000.00
    Darren Daulton $425,000.00
    Bruce Ruffin $350,000.00
    Steve Lake $340,000.00
    Ricky Jordan $215,000.00
    Curt Ford $195,000.00
    Terry Mulholland $150,000.00
    Steve Ontiveros $150,000.00
    Dennis Cook $120,000.00
    Charlie Hayes $120,000.00
    Pat Combs $112,000.00
    Todd Frohwirth $110,000.00
    Jason Grimsley $105,000.00
    Chuck McElroy $105,000.00
    Sil Campusano $100,000.00
    Dave Hollins $100,000.00
    Chuck Malone $100,000.00
    Brad Moore $100,000.00
    Jim Vatcher $100,000.00

    Total $13,173,667

  66. I would expect with Shreve coming off TJ surgery they will not be pushing his innings this year anyway… Like T May last year (77.1 innings) I would think they have a good idea how many innings they will let Shreve throw…

  67. guys, this is a blog about the minor league prospects. not mlb salaries. take that stuff elsewhere.

  68. yeah, take that practical discussion of what happens to minor league players because of the slots available on the big league team to another board.

    Must discuss Bocock and Tyler Cloud

  69. Overbeck is now 5th in all of minor league baseball with a .745 slugging percent and like what his manager Dusty Wathan had to say about his play after being named Phils Minor League Offensive Player of the Month: “Cody has had a wonderful month not only with the bat, but also with his glove,”

  70. Totally random in this thread, but I didn’t know where to put it.

    Yahoo 1st round mock:

    http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1081616

    The Pick: Brett Eibner, Util/RHP, Arkansas
    The Buzz: Eibner is a two-way prospect who will most likely be taken as a pitcher. He can hit 95 mph with his fastball with good late sink on it. His slider is MLB ready and has good movement.

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