Open Discussion: Week of July 8, 2018

The Phillies are 49-38 after a 4-1 week against the Orioles and Pirates.  They have taken over first place in the division, and been there for 3 days, now.

The Phils continue their road trip with a four game series at the Mets, a single game in Baltimore, and three games in Miami before the All Star break.

Drew Anderson made his first Phillies start Sunday, and Enyel De Los Santos may make his Phillies’ debut as early as Tuesday.

This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for baseball topics.

“In non-baseball news, we have a troll among us.  One of our long-time readers has started trolling people here.  He has used over a dozen aliases and several bogus e-mail accounts.

His trolling has caused another long-time reader to change his online name and avatar.  He has responded to comments as billy, bravos, bud, gary, hive, j, John Costello, Kim Baptiste, mark, Marilyn Monroe, rmo, Romus, ted, tim, Tim’s Brother, and a couple more.  

You will notice that he is not above using someone else’s handle when trolling.  I don’t canvass comments in the open discussion as closely as I used to.  I DO check new users and if I deem their comments questionable, I’ll check into their background.  On a few occasions, I have blocked new users who appear trollish.  

So, what do you want me to do about our own internal troll?  I blocked two of his aliases but unblocked them when I realized who it was.  But, with this many aliases in the last year and his propensity to use another’s name, I will handle him as you wish.  This is your community, how should I handle this?”


368 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 8, 2018

    1. Get well, rocco.
      After you get the help you so desperately need, come join us again.


      Seriously … rocco likes to have fun. I appreciate that about him. He’s probably just gone a little too far. I don’t believe he’s trying to be malicious. Just return to be the same old rocco you used to be. You can still be funny as rocco.

      1. “Crucify rocco…we want Barabbas”

        Rocco…..seriously, chill out for awhile.

  1. Honestly I dont care if it’s someone new or someone who’s been here a long time they should be treated alike. Having said that he crossed the line and needs to be gone. If you boot newbies because you think they might be a troll then having this many aliases makes the decision quite easy IMO

  2. Thank you Jim for your diligence! My comment would be that I don’t care about the aliases, but IMO the important consideration is following the rules of respectful communication… and if those are violated, then the quality of everyone’s efforts is diminished. i.e., if the posts are respectful I wouldn’t care, and if they weren’t… that said, Jim I don’t think it is another of your job’s to be an internet policeman.

  3. Did anyone care to share impressions of Drew Anderson’s start, maybe in terms of the quality of his pitches, maintenance of velocity, etc? I only saw the video of the opposing pitcher’s 2-run double, in which it appeared the fielder started in the wrong direction and then to use one of Jim’s phrases from ago, took a “Revere-like path to the ball.

    1. I saw the game, he was just ok. 92-94, his secondary offerings are a little below average although he hung a brutal curve to the pitcher which cost him the lead. I didn’t see much to be excited about and there’s no way he’s better than Pivetta or VV.

      I think he’s a candidate to move to the bullpen and see if he can pump it to 94-96.

    2. Still think he’s a future reliever. His fastball and slider looked pretty good but he didn’t have his good curveball and he barely threw a changeup. He’s like Pivetta if all of his pitches were a little worse.

      That said, I could see his stuff playing up in the pen. Could be a good fastball/slider reliever with the ability to go multiple innings.

    3. I was at the game, I sat directly behind home plate in the 10 th row back. Had a great view as to movement on his pitches.

      My impressions were early in the game he had difficulty finding the strike zone when I looked up at the ball strike counter he was throwing almost twice as many balls as strikes but when I looked at the counter just before he left the game he had improved the ratio to almost 70 percent strikes. It appeared that he had good movement on his breaking balls.

      While I noticed here that people said his velocity was 92 to 94. When I looked up at the velocity during the game I only saw 91 and 92 mph readings.

      From my seat it definately looked like rys Hoskins miśplayed the ball hit by the pitcher for a double. And it appeared that pitch was intended to be a waste pitch to get the pitcher to strike out but got to much of the plate.

  4. You should ban him forever. Trolling is one thing, if you stood by your actions and used your own handle. But the moment you hijack someone else’s, then you should lose all privileges on this website.

      1. Add me to this list. This is already anonymous, we don’t know anyone on here. There are so many great posters on here, it’s crossing the line to post as them.

        I say ban him.

  5. I have changed my views on a Machado trade.

    I do not think that we should give up a top prospect for Machado. I think we should trade a mid-level prospect (eg JoJo Romero) for Beltre. Keep our top prospects.

    I think we should trade another similar prospect for a good closer.

    I think those moves get us to the playoffs this year but not an NL pennant.

    And then we should go all in to sign Machado in the off-season.

    1. If you look at recent years, rentals aren’t getting top 10 prospects anymore. A player as highly ranked as JoJo would only go in a big deal for a Machado type. I don’t expect that level deal for us. A Beltre deal is very possible but it would take two players from 11-20 on our list, maybe Irvin and Cozens. A couple more weeks to guess…

      1. Just not sure Rangers want a poor man’s version of Joey Gallo in Dylan Cozens.
        They may take on a Jes Valentin based on his versatility.

          1. Yep….Daniels may do that also.
            And I do think he is due back later this month from his , what seems now to be, annual extended DL stays.

    2. v1 … I feel the same way. I wouldn’t deal a top prospect for a rental at this time. That’s a move for a team who is one player away from a solid chance of winning the WS. That said, I’ve listed (a few times) the top prospects that I would not deal for MM (or any other rental). JoJo Romero is on that list. He joins: JP Crawford, Scott Kingery, VV, Nick Pivetta, Zach Efflin, Ser-Antn’y, Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, Jhailyn Ortiz, Francisco Morales, and (probably) Kevin Gowdy. As I’ve posted numerous times, I would go as high as Maikel Franco, Enyel De Los Santos, one of Cole Irvin/Ranger Saurez, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia.
      Also … Adrian Beltre has 10 and 5 rights, and (reportedly) most likely isn’t going to ok a trade.
      Let Baltimore deal Machado to the DBacks or Dodgers. It’ll save us a second round draft pick when we sign him this winter.

    3. Agree totally with V1again regarding Machado trade. Go all out in the off season. In my opinion Sixto is the only untouchable.
      Go Phillies.

    4. vi – I’m close to where you are. I don’t want Beltre and don’t think he wants to be moved. Instead, I’d spent resources on utility fielder Whit Merrifield from K.C. who can shore up the bench and be a useful player in the mix going forward.

      I’d spend on a reliever, a closer if possible or late inning arm. And I’d go for Machado in free agency.

      1. Yeah. That’s my point. I care less about Beltre and more that I wouldn’t give up an elite pitching prospect for a 2 month rental. However, if the price of Machado goes down to guys like JoJo then sign me up.

  6. Block him. The alias thing is the deal breaker. If you want to troll people under your name, that’s one thing; im thick skinned I can handle it over the internet.

    On to Phillies stuff: Is Beltre a free agent after this year? I would certainly not trade much for him. And the Hamels rumors are insane to me; he is a shell of his former self and that would be a move made for pure nostalgia.

    Very excited to see de los Santos.

    As far as Anderson is concerned, he pitched ok, that pitch that the pitcher drilled was a hanger but again, having Rhys in left field cost the team. He is not an outfielder. Not sure why Santana was signed, Rhys needs to be at 1b. Rhys makes Pat Burrell look good. I love Rhys, but he should be playing first base.

    I don’t understand why the organization doesn’t see what I see in Anderson; he could be a dominant reliever as soon as this year. His stuff plays much better the first time through an order, and if you limit him to 1 and 2 inning appearances and let him lean back and fire a little, I think he could be a beast. Ramos-Arano-Anderson-Davis-Seranthony-Hunter is actually an extremely above average pen. Make the move now and he could be a significant contributor immediately.

    1. Totally agree about Anderson, he profiles as a middle reliever. Even Kruk described him pregame as a guy who is much better in the first three innings.

    2. I watched Anderson’s start yesterday and it confirmed everything I think about him. He’s a “meh” kind of player. Not enough command or breaking pitches to be effective as a starter and not enough velocity or movement to be particularly noteworthy as a reliever. I guess he could always improve, but he’s a pretty secondary figure right now.

      1. If he starts through 95-98 in relief perhaps we have a different conversation. But I don’t think he has one breaking pitch that’s good enough to set up his fastball. He’s not close in my view and I don’t know if he’ll ever get there. Just another guy right now and without the huge arm that a guy like Yacksel Rios has (that dude can bring it ).

        1. Agree with catch. I’m not/never have been high on Anderson (as a starter or a reliever).

  7. Jim – sorry you have to deal with so much BS. Where’s the pleasure from being a troll? I don’t get it. Let’s all just stick to Phillies stuff.

  8. Jim, I would say to ban him for the rest of the season. Then, consider a second chance. That’s even if he would want to come back at that point.

    1. 8mark….sort of like a ‘time-out’ that children get…but in this case, until the FILs?
      Seasonal sentencing..I like that.

      1. Suspended sentence. No violations for rest of this season he is forgiven, one more violation of any kind gone for indefinite amount of time.

    2. 8mark I’m with you. Although a season-long ban may seem a little lenient for someone who used aliases to troll others, in my opinion a lifetime ban is a little harsh. Just my two cents.

  9. I’m in the block category simply because of the take over of others aliases. Bad behavior is bad behavior.

    As for Anderson, he wasn’t terrible in his first start but doesn’t seem to have put away stuff and he made a number of mistake pitches, including a terrible 2-strike curveball to the opposing pitcher…

  10. Jim, I post infrequently sometimes, but I’d honestly pay for this site, and I don’t for any others. Not sure what went on with Rocco but a ban sounds in order. There was a guy on a certain site with a horrific amount of usernames, to be safe, I’d ban him. That kinda of sTuff gets out of hand, and to respect your time, you don’t need the extra bull. No one does.

    On MM, on wouldn’t blow my best prospect trade proposal on him. He is awesome but it is not time. If he came with 3 yrs of control, sure, but not now. I’d give up JoJo, C, Gowdy, and one or two of Lively/Anderson/Escheleman. Take it or leave it. I hope he gets traded to the dbacks. I’d be scared he’d like the dodgers too much.

    No to Hamels, yes to happ, no to Beltre – I see/feel an injury soon after he is traded, no to mous- feel like Franco can give same output.

    1. Be careful what you wish for. The reason I say that is I have a Zona fan friend and the big joke is how many guys left the org and became great players. Scherzer, Inciarte, Martinez, Skaggs, you can basically make an all star team of former Diamondbacks. IF they got Machado in a trade they would employ the full court press to keep him; one more of these stars comes and goes and they are going to have a lot to answer to. I know that hes a UFA and it doesn’t matter how bad Zona wants him, but I do think they will be willing to shell out the loot so MM doesn’t join that list of players.

      1. And Dave Stewart, who let many of those guys go, is no longer GM, the latest GM Mike Hazen, will go balls out to keep Machado.

        1. Again … MM is hitting the free agent market this winter no matter who he is traded to this month. Not even worried a little bit about the DBacks outbidding John Middleton. Arizona will likely invest more time & resources into resigning their own FA’s: A.J. Pollock and Patrick Corbin this year, and Paul Goldschmidt next season.

  11. Read here regularly, but don’t comment much. If someone is using aliases AND trolling – block for the remainder of the year.

    I’ve been watching Knapp become a more confident offensive player. I’m interested in others perspective on how close he and Alfaro are in value to the team. Alfaro’s canon behind that plate is the one area that he clearly stands apart. But Knapp seems to have been calling good games and offensively he has been at least as productive as Alfaro this year.

    1. For the first two months of the season, I wanted Knapp in AAA very badly. He couldn’t hit a lick and it seemed like catching regular pitches was a struggle for him.

      In the last month, it has been very different. He has hit with confidence and looks like he belongs. Hes still a backup to me though; the defense isn’t there.

      Alfaro has been extremely disappointing at the plate though, and that is why you are seeing Knapp in there fairly frequently. I know Alfaro may never be more than a .260 hitter, but I wanted to see more pop and many times at the plate he has just looked completely lost and unable to put the bat on the ball.

    2. Have to agree…Knapp has been on a roll of late…but can he sustain it is what i want to like to see.
      Alf……….245/289/377…PAs-225…and last month…222/250/352
      Knapp….222/308/393…PAs-133…and last month…326/370/744

    3. Alfaro also has one of the ‘highest swing and miss in the zone’ metrics in the league….last time I looked it was over 60%.
      Not being able to hit FBs in the strike zone does not bode well for anybody’s production.

    4. How many steals did the Pirates have yesterday? Four. Teams aren’t running too much on Alfaro though as he’s constantly throwing guys out. Big important difference between the two

      1. That is true, his arm is plus, along wiith his overll defense vs Knapp’s…. 34% CS vs Knapp’s 18% CS rate.
        Also Alfaro has a DRS of negative 1 (510 innings)-.988 FLD% and Knapp is at negative 6 ( 267 innings) .980 FLD%.

        But both are far from the top for best defensive MLB catchers.

  12. I agree with the above suggestions to ban the user until the season’s end. Trolling is annoying, and this poster also has plenty of “Angelo Cataldi in the Morning” moments, but he’s been a good sport on here long enough that he deserves a second chance.

    I’m having a hard time understanding why people have a hard time putting together a package for Machado. There is a ton of pitching depth in the system, guys like Franco or Crawford whose job Machado would essentially take, and those like Williams or Altherr who don’t appear to be in the long-term plans.I have a hard time believing an acceptable package can’t be put together — unless the Phils know something about where he is signing next year.

    I’d offer: Franco, Medina or De Los Santos, Haseley or Moniak and maybe another piece.

      1. If Medina is the key to a deal, how can you not do it? Even if it’s just for a rental (which I don’t believe it would be … a late summer playoff push with a young team in Philly should be enough good vibes to get him to sign a mega deal)? Dude is 26 years old with a howitzer for an arm and an even bigger bat. I’d put any of our prospects not named Sixto on the table for a shot at a player like that.

          1. I agree 110% with this . . . Some said that if Media was in this years draft he would have went top 3. And i’ve long been one who doesn’t seen what others do in Crawford.

            1. But some strange reason you hardly see any criticism of Kingery I wonder why that is

              hasn’t he been every bit as awful

        1. Medina is a steep price….but Machado is on his way to the HoF…and instantly makes the Phillies a serious division contender and possibly a NL favorite to get to the NLCS if their pitching of Nola/Arrieta and Eflin can continue..
          Apparently the Phillies already offered JPC and I assume the Os wanted added players in the deal.
          I guess Matt K can wait until Monday the 30th and the price falls even more….if the Os still have Manny by then.

            1. @ Hinkie, in the link posted by Romus above, it said that the Phillies included JP in the talks. Not only that, I remember you telling me previously that it wouldn’t be that hard to find out about the requested players in trade negotiations.

            2. Guru … didn’t mean for you to think I was accusing you of reporting JP Crawford was offered. I know you just read what Romus posted. Believe me, I know this is all Romus’ fault. He likes to start rumors on here 🙂
              I’m sure Romus saw that reported somewhere.
              I did previously post that not much is kept secret in trade negotiations. I stand by that. Teams leak. Agents leak. Sometimes agents or teams leak false information to drum up interest in their clients/players or to up the offers on players teams are marketing. So … Baltimore may leak the Phillies have offered Crawford, or the Dodgers have offered Alex Verdugo just to affect the MM market.

            3. Hinkie….starting rumors…LOL.
              Just linking what the Os beat writer wrote on Saturday as yuo can see..

            4. Yeah, Romus. A long time ago rocco warned me that you liked to start wild Phillies rumors on here 🙂 LOL !!!

        2. After watching the Phillies struggle with men in scoring position the last three games I would really consider trading for Beltre or Machado if the cost is not ridiculously high. The Phillies have a deep farm system to pull a trade off.

          1. Beltre he stated he wants to stay in Texas. He has a full no trade cause.

  13. I agree with 8 mark. How do we feel about the chances to get Brad Hand? I think he really sets up the BP nicely. I know the package starts with Franco, and I think he moves the needle for us quite a bit. Never thought we should pay a top prospect for MM, I read that Beltre does not want to move, even to be in a Playoff chase, so that Whit Merryfield rumor really sounds like a nice move.

    1. Brad Hand is a fine reliever. But there is no reason to give up anything of value for him. They aren’t winning the WS this year. And relievers are funky; they can have a 1.80 ERA one year and a 4.69 ERA the next. The ONLY time you give up anything for a pen arm is if you are a WS contender with that one arm, like the Andrew Miller deal.

      The pen has been good lately. My theory all along was that the pen wasn’t bad as a whole it was just a few gas cans like Neris and Morgan who made their stats look terrible as a whole. Austin Davis looks pretty good and I’ll shout it from the rooftop all day that I think Anderson could be a very solid 7th inning guy.

      Hand just isn’t necessary. Literally the highest I would go for him is Cole Irvin and Franco, and even that is steep.

  14. I’ve scratched my head at times over Kapler’s ingame decision and certain lineups (like yesterday leading off with Knapp, his heart is in the right place but sometimes tries to be cutting edge for the sake of being cutting edge).

    HOWEVER, Aaron Nola is the only Phillie worthy of an all star election. The voting is nothing but a popularity contest anyway but my point is – this team shares 1st place in the division with only one all star. That tells me that Kapler has been masterful in cohering this less than spectacular roster and keeping the ship intact. He’s pushing the right buttons for the most part. He’s different in a city that doesn’t embrace different. It’s time to recognize the importance of excellence at the top. And it’s time for Klentak to maximize what Kapler has maximized for him so far. The bullpen needs at least one proven arm. The rest of the team needs a serious tweaking. Otherwise, Klentak may eventually be looking over his shoulder in fear of losing his job. And the guy he might see looming? Gabe Kapler.

  15. At least 15 different screen names on this site? Wow, that indicates [1] a real issue, and [2] way too much free time. Dude needs to get a life. And stealing the screen name of others is just low and a crappy thing to do.

    Much like MLB’s suspension for a positive steroid test result, I might suggest banning the guy for 80 games. That suspension could last into April of 2019. If he does it again, he gets a 162 game suspension. And after a 3rd time, he’s gone for good.

  16. I’ve been reading and commenting here since like 2007, if that means anything. Roccom has been here as long as I can remember. Only because of the use of other people’s handles, I’d suggest one final warning before a temporary ban, like until the end of the season as 8mark suggested above.

  17. I’m wondering if De Los Santos’ start tomorrow night is a showcase for a possible trade.

    1. Could be, but Enyel Has been the best pitcher at Lehigh and he needed to get rewarded for it. Not to mention that he needs to be added to the 40 man roster after the season.

  18. I watched that Angels-Dodgers game last night. Wow ! Shohei Ohtani is worth the price of admission !!

    Favorite non Phillie:
    1A. Mike Trout
    1B. Shohei Ohtani

    Favorite Phillie:
    Jorge Alfaro has grown on me. I love the way he busts it down the line every time he puts the ball in play (though I’m worried he’s going to blow out an ankle or knee one of these days on the first base bag).

    Favorite Phillies prospect:
    You know I’m a big fan of the big man … Jakob Hernandez.

    List your own favorites below this.

    1. I’m still carrying a torch for Grenny Cumana. In a way he’s the opposite of Hernandez.

    2. Favorite non-Phillies (non-Trout and non-Cole Hamels division):

      1. Buster Posey – a damned near perfect baseball player and a classy dude to boot. He’s awesome.
      2. Mookie Betts – wow!
      3. Josh Donaldson – he’s been hurt and maybe he’ll never be the same, but when he’s on, he’s a beast at the plate and great in the field.
      4. Max Scherzer (and I hate the Nationals) – I don’t know how you can win 3 Cy Young awards and somehow get a full notch better, but he did. I am in awe of this guy.

      Favorite Phillie: Rhys, Odubel and Andy Knapp for the hitters and Zach Eflin and Seranthony for the pitchers.

      Favorite prospect: Austin Listi. All the odds are against him, but there’s something there – I think the bat is real. As for the better prospects, it’s Sixto all the way.

        1. Yeah Cesar would probably be 4th – I’ve been following Knapp closely for years. If he figures it all out he could be a heck of a player. If they get rid of him he’ll end up being an All-star for the A’s.

    3. @Hinkie – we are riding the Ohtani-Machado-Trout train to Philly since 2 years ago. The trio are my non-Phillie or should I say future Phillies favorite players. I can throw Kikuchi there too.

      My favorite current Phillie is no other than Aaron Nola. I stand by this guy when he was down and will stick with him for his 1st all start and future CY Young awards.

      My favorite prospect is Sixto Sanchez. This is the reason why we don’t agree with the Blake Snell trade. Drew Anderson is my #BeBold choice and Logan O’Hoppe is my new toy.

      1. If i can add, LHP Manuel Silva is another prospect that I like. It’s still early to get excited, but Silva is one of the prospects I will keep an eye on.

  19. JimP -it’s a good decision to call him out. For a long time reader like rocco, a stern warning but with short leash is ok with me since most time readers know that rocco’s are half tollish anyway. i just hope that rocco realize that he doesn’t need to hide in another names.

  20. Hinkie … I get to see a lot of Trout and Ohtani in Las Vegas. They’re in a league of their own.
    Favorite Phillie: Hoskins. Not so much for what he is now, but for what I believe he will become.
    Favorite Prospect: Kyle Young.
    Most important prospect: De Los Santos. Whether he ends up in the rotation or brings us a quality everyday player, depends on Klentak and PHIL.

  21. I am still partial to Roman Quinn and keep hoping he finds a miracle, and stays healthy. Still dream of his speed at the top of the lineup. Of course, I still believe in the Easter Bunny as well. And Hoskins, for me, with the Phils.

    1. At best I dream of his speed off the bench. Will never be an everyday player with the amount of developmental time lost.

  22. Jim, whatever is easier for you concerning ‘trolls’ is what I would suggest to maintain the site. You could delete comments altogether-I tend to read comments for an alternative ‘angle or view’ without even noticing the names. But if you thought the comment was borderline in anyway – maybe hi-lite it in red or underline it – sort of an ‘internet scarlet letter’.

    1. I love this site and have for years and I am so thankful for all Jim does. However, when he tried deleting comments, everyone, myself included, hated it. The discussion is half the fun. Everyones fun shouldn’t be ruined bc of a few bad apples. Im all for giving the guy a final warning and one more time hes blocked for good.

  23. Non-Phillie: Trout

    Phillie: Position Player: Hoskins; Pitcher: Nola

    Prospect: Listi (Great Story)

    Also, honored that PP Legend Roccom pirated my screen name. I would suggest a week or two on the bench for him and then let him come back. Rocco has been on here since I started reading and he’s trollish in a funny way most of the time.

    1. I’m okay with time on the bench, but that time should be months, not weeks. Trolling is bad enough, but stealing the screen name of other makes it much worse IMO. Agree that a permanent ban is unnecessary, but let the guy come back in January, or after the season at the earliest.

  24. I agree on Hinkie on the Machado trade, keep the top prospects and young guns (including JPC) and be firm at the trade deadline. smoke screens and fake news will float the web closer to the deadline — Klentak should just stay calm and firm.

    On Drew Anderson, he was just 1 bad breaking ball away from a 1-run game. Overall, it is a decent start although he’s obviously looked overwhelmed since it’s his 1st start. I’m just surprised that Drew Anderson did not throw his best secondary pitch in CB more during the game like Eickhoff did in his early years. The CU needs to catch up and Anderson needs to keep his FB velocity deeper in the game, otherwise, he’ll be bound to the bullpen sooner than later. Anderson can throw mid-90s and can command all his pitches. We’ve seen how Pivetta, Vinny and Eflin go thru growing pains, so I’m ok giving Anderson more time to develop as a starter to become a viable piece or a valuable trade asset.

    Hinkie and I are also in the same page with delos Santos. If no other GMs will offer a top 100 prospect for Machado, delos Santos can be appealing to BAL as an alternative.

      1. hahaha Romus!!! If I’m BAL, I will ask Anderson as a throw in. Anderson’s trade value is not that high right now. You know I like Anderson a lot, but the slow progress of his CU and the declining velocity deep in the game starts to concern me.

    1. I’m just not a fan of the stuff. When he got ahead with two strikes, he didn’t have the ability to blow someone away with a fastball in the zone or throw a hit and miss breaking pitch. We’ll see, but the stuff was very pedestrian notwithstanding the velocity.

      1. People said that to Nola (and his stuff) before Nola fully developed his CB and CU. I’m not saying that Anderson is Nola, but pitchers like their type don’t normally blow hitters away out of the gate. As Nola said in one of his interviews, it’s about pitch sequence and change of speed to get batters out.

        I’m actually surprised that Anderson did not utilized his CB a lot yesterday. If you haven’t seen his CB – it can be Eickhoff-like. I’ve seen a very cautious Anderson yesterday, trying not to overthrow and avoid a implosion in his 1st career start. If you’re not yet impressed, that’s fine. Anderson will just get better from here.

        It’s just 6 months ago that you and roccom are not impressed with Nola too and killed me when I said that Nola can be a perennial CY Young contender.

        Pivetta, Pivetta and Eflin took their time. Anderson may need that too.

        1. Nonsense – I’ve been a big Nola supporter since he was in the minors. My only issue with Nola was his ability to stay healthy (he has) and retain his fastball velocity (he has) – you are confusing my beliefs with someone else. Please don’t put words in my mouth.

          1. @catch – no, i don’t confuse you with someone. we’re almost always in the opposite side of any major debate. You and roccom are in the forefront of the velocity arguments.

            1. or maybe it’s roccom disguised as catch because i say another catch floating site in the site.

            2. Wrong – I was the one this spring singing Nola’s praises and fighting Roccom about him – stop putting words in my mouth that I never said!

  25. The guy I actually want is Britton. He’s working his way back into shape and is a FA after the season.
    I still dream of Quinn bunting and stealing bases for us.
    I used to love watching JP play SS although he hasn’t looked great there this year.
    Listi and Hall together have certainly been fun to watch.
    Non Phillie – Altuve. I’ve never seen anyone like him.

  26. OMG, the Mets have both Joey Bats and Jose Reyes in the lineup against Eflin? We have to take care of business.

    1. Reyes would be the worst player in the NL if he had enough PAs to qualify. Not even at the AS break and the worthless punk is already at -1.0 WAR via Fangraphs.

  27. Since I was the trolled by Roccum the most . For whatever reason I never trolled Him or anyone by another name.
    1. I didn’t know he was using other members handles too.
    2. That seems to be a much bigger issue .
    3. Rocco does have a long history on this site . tying to factor In everything.
    5.Jim doesn’t need this kind of behavior on his site.’s my opinion
    7. Let Roccum stay on this site as Roccum . If he’s trying to log on as another alias block or suspended him .we want Roccum views ON SPORTS , PHILLIES .
    8.IF Roccum can’t do that then he does have a probelm and it may be bigger then his site. Jim Ty Class act ,great site my God bless you.

  28. Looks like VV is good to go for Wednesday (with Enyel presumably going back down after his start).

    1. DLS was suppose to pitch in Columbus on Wednesday for an inning or two, but that looks off now.
      Then his next start will probably be Sunday in Wash DC for the World in the Futures Game..

  29. WAR rankings:
    1. Babe Ruth (22 years) ………..182.5
    73. Mike Trout (8 years, age26) …61.1

    ….all Mike needs to do is play 12 more years at 10WAR min. per season.

    1. There is no doubt that if Trout stays healthy, he could be a top 5 player of all time.

  30. I’m glad that Kapler starts to trust Arano in high leverage innings including the chance to close the game. Ramos is coming back and Austin Davis doesn’t look bad at all. Possibly 4 young and controllable arms who can be part of a solid bullpen for years to come. And the good news, there’s help coming too. How good the bullpen will look if Pivetta, Vinny and Kilome transitioned to the pen.

    1. KuKo….and don’t forget there is still coming up Edgar Garcia…..and that Kyle Dohy and Jakob Hernandez could be there in 2 years.

      1. @romus – that’s the help that I’m referring to which also include Grant Dyer, JD Hammer and possibly Mauricio Llovera. Zach Warren, a local LHP, can be a surprise addition.

  31. Nick Williams falls behind 0 and 2 gets the count to 2 and 2.he then hits 97mph FB up middle. Great ATbats.

  32. Wow I go away for a few days and the gurney is rolling down the pike with no brakes and Rocco is on it?

    If this is confirmed to be Rocco for sure it’s strange to me. I’ve been here for wow a very long time and so has he. I know he can at times a bit cantankerous.

    If this is verified and true he deserves a suspension through the All-Star break and a warning that if it were to continue again upon being allowed back on a ban would follow.

    Tomorrow you will all get to bear great witness that DLS is the real deal and this nonsense of wanting to trade him for a rental can finally stop 🙂

  33. Another loss to the Mets. There were ample chances to score late in the game. We need a better bench than Altherr, Valentin and Cozens.

      1. Luke Williams is roccom’s boy too. Too bad roccom decided to go rogue when his boys are starting to do well.

  34. Does Altherr have any options remaining? If Quinn looks half decent i gotra believe he’s up in the big leagues upon return. Altherr is an auto out and Cozens auto K

    1. Yes, Altherr has one option remaining.

      Other position players without options include Alfaro, Hernandez, and Santana.

      Pitchers without options include Arrieta, Hunter, Neshek, and Morgan.

      On the DL, Florimon and Luis Garcia are out of options.

  35. Nola was fantastic and had to knock in his own runs! Can you imagine if we blew that game 1-0? We did not face DeGrom and Thor and the hitting was woeful. Klentak needs to be really good this month. There are a lot of 40 man decisions and rather than losing guys for nothing, he needs to package a few. I thought another BP piece was #1, but I changed my mind. I would like another arm, but a hitter is crucial. A starter at 3B puts Franco on the bench, and he is better than what the bench is now.

    1. agree with you matt13. The current Phillies found itself in the same situation as the Sixers where they have earlier success than expected and have to make a decision to either ride the success and hope to make a noise or continue the development of the young core. the Sixers decided to stand put at the trade deadline and instead waited until somebody fell of the cracks and swoop them (i.e. Belinelli and Ilyasova). we know that the end game was the Sixers made a run in the players and looked good but they weaknesses were exposed by better coaching.

      i don’t know if going all in at the deadline or making incremental improvement is the right move. what i think the smart move is, keep the young core together and protect the higher end prospects and deal what’s available in the farm to make improvements and plug the holes.

    2. Just like Steve Carlton and Robin Roberts had to do in their prime! Agree with you about Franco as he is playing well now.

  36. matt13 … I think you should change your mind again. The #1 piece should be a left handed reliever. The bullpen has gotten over it’s slump, and with Neshek back they should be okay. It’s foolish to think that they can get by with just Morgan from the left side. Guess who is 2nd in batting average on the Phillies? Franco is 5 points behind Herrera, and seems to be having fun again. We can address that in the offseason. Nick Williams just played his 162nd game, and is batting .271. He has become more selective at the plate, he’s the teams best pinch hitter, and is still 24 years old.
    Ultimately Klentak and PHIL will decide who to keep and who to ship out, and there will be joy and outrage in Philly.

    1. i understand that the situation last year was different from this year, but I liked it when Klentak tapped the farm for some bullpen help and see what they have. Last year, the Phils decided to see what they have in Yacksel Rios and JDT, both elder and not thought highly as prospects. Rios started to show good stuff and LAD signing the injured JDT is a good sign that JDT has something in him too.

      This year, Klentak selected Austin Davis, which I think is a good move. I always think that Davis will make it to the majors. Another move that Klentak can consider is trying out LHPs Tyler Gilbert and Jeff Singer. If they’re bad, DFA them, if not, they can be a trade asset or a serviceable piece and replace Milner and Curtis in the 40-man.

        1. Jesen Dygestile-Therrien. 2011 Rd 17 pick. Scheduled to have a TJ surgery and was outrighted last year due to roster crunch. I like JDT better than Rios. Rios can throw harder, but JDT has better command and has the better breaking ball. I like JDT the same way i like Drew Anderson – pitchers who commands their pitches, can change speeds and with a solid breaking ball.

    2. WaWa Mike, That 2d game last night put me over the edge. 1 hit other than Nola’s! Watching Altherr swing is cause to drink heavily. Even a bench hitter helps them improve over AA, Cozens and Valentin. I want a lefty out of the ‘Pen, but another hitter, and probably 2, has to be acquired..

      1. Don’t forget that Florimon and JP are out. The bench should be those 2 and Altherr.

      2. Matt13 … I like that Whit Merryfield guy as a bench player. Altherr and Cozens are toast this year. They may need a fresh start in another city.

        1. I agree, and I know JP is coming back but he hasn’t hit all year. I would rather get Merryfield and forget Moustakas. Merryfield is under contract for a couple of years.

        2. think Merrifield is more than a bench player, but he’s played only 30 innings at third the last 3 years, none at short- so you’d need to give him alot of starts in right, and be sitting Nick against some right handers to make getting Whit worthwhile.
          I’d take an Adam Lind off Boston’s AAA team as a veteran lefty bat off the bench for pinch hitting- Cozens has no chance.

          realize he’d be a rental, but how about Wilson Ramos from tampa to give you a catcher with some real pop- he’s been one of best hitting catchers in the league this year. Would you deal Knapp and a second piece for him, then sign him or another C in off-season?

          1. Wilson Ramos is going to be 31 next month. He can hit a bit, but he’s had up and down years and he’s injury prone. I would rather go with Alfaro/Knapp. They are both still developing.

    3. I think Gabe mentioned that he likes Franco hitting 8th. Supposedly Franco is more alert because he might be getting pitched around for the pitcher. Whatever the reason, he has certainly picked it up with the bat and the glove (he hasn’t chucked one into the ground in a while). Leave him at 8, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

  37. Defensive Shifts’ Factoid…
    2018…left-handed batters have faced shifts in 30.2 percent of plate appearances compared to 8.5 percent for right-handed batters, per Baseball Savant.

  38. Phillies hit the 50 win mark at game 133 last yr.this yr game 89 wow .
    Yes the Phillies have warts but young warts can get better .
    There depth in Pitching might payoff.
    1 bullpen piece, 1 hitter , 1 bench .

  39. Phils GCL teams is facing off against each other today. Dom Pipkin vs Ben Brown.

    1. Ben Brown won that contest by a mile. DJ Steward , Holmes,Wingrove doing well.

  40. To put some perspective on Enyel De Los Santos… MLB debut tonight,
    and has come so far this season starting in AAA for the first time.
    He is 22, born Dec 1995…never a top 100 selection from BA/BP/MLB
    Adonis Medina, is 21, born Dec 1996…and a top 100 across the board.
    And hopefully awaits his AA debut later this season.
    Good luck to De Los Santos tonight.

    1. Saw some video of Enyel pitching at Lehigh, it looks like he’s short arming the ball, similar to Ken Hill of the Expos/Cardinals. Will need to take a second look tonight.

      1. Yeah…Joe Jordan back in April mentioned his FB and CU were MLB plus pitches, but his breaking ball…whatever one he was working on at the time…slider or curve-ball needed some refinement and a work-in-progress.
        I want to see the breaking stuff tonight and what happens.

      2. LOL !!! Has anyone ever seen the Guru and John Kruk in the same room at the same time? Kruk dropped the same Ken Hill comp on DLS during the game tonight.

  41. Phillies signed an 18 year old….. Chi-Ling Su.
    A RHP from Chinese Tapei. ….has plenty of international baseball experience …. played on Team Taiwan in the last WBC. …. reported $250K signing bonus.

    1. @romus – thanks to your boy Elniery. Klentak got $500K from him and possibly used the $$ to sign the Taiwanese player and possibly some more.

    2. Romus & KuKo … they signed that kid a month ago (in the last J2 class). Elniery Garcia’s money won’t be used on him. The also signed a tall French kid (pitcher) at the same time they inked Chi-Ling Su. The French pitcher’s name is Yoan Antonac.
      The Taiwanese pitcher looks like a real prospect. See the video in this article
      Here’s the story on Antonac

      1. I apologize. I think the Taiwanese pitcher they signed last month is a different kid than the player Romus posted about. After reading that article, the Phillies actually signed 19 YO Lin Hsin-Chieh last month.

        Chi-Ling Su is a different/new Taiwanese pitcher they must have signed. My apologies, again.

        1. It looks like the Phillies are hitting Taiwan hard. The team is also one of the front runners for LHP Lin An-Ko.

      2. Better let Winkelman know…his list does not have him on it from last week.
        Starlyn Castillo, RHP, Dominican Republic
        Fernando Ortega, RHP, Dominican Republic
        Joalbert Angulo, LHP, Venezuela
        Alexeis Azuaje, 2B, Venezuela
        Andrick Nava, C, Venezuela
        Javier Vina, C, Venezuela
        Kelvin Pichardo, SS, Dominican Republic
        Victor Diaz, C, Dominican Republic
        Yeuri Corona, SS, Dominican Republic
        Eiberson Castellano, RHP, Venezuela
        Wilson Gherbaz, RHP, Venezuela
        Jonathan Rivas, RHP, Venezuela
        Luis Vegas, RHP, Venezuela
        Neykar Ibarra, LHP, Venezuela
        Jeury Corona, OF, Dominican Republic
        Reiberth Gil, OF, Venezuela

        1. Romus … I posted above I got my Taiwanese pitchers mixed up. The Phillies actually signed 19-year-old RHP 林鋅杰 (Lin Hsin-Chieh) for $250,000 last month. Lin and Antonac were both members of the 2017 J2 class.

            1. I wasn’t able to find Lin and Antonac on anyone’s 2017 Phillies J2 list. I had just remembered reading that they were signed at the beginning of June.

  42. delos Santos officially added to the 25-man and 40-man rosters. Florimon moved to 60-DL to make room.

    Good luck to delos Santos! Do well and you will be rewarded with a trade for Machado.

  43. Heyman tweeted earlier that Phillies are still targeting Manny but are working backup plans in the meantime.

    1. Here is the tweet:

    1. Milner is subject to waivers first, so if somebody wants him, they’ll get him for free.

    1. Haseley to AA seems a bit fast to me anyone else? He’s developed little power and I thought he was just starting to do will at Clearwater, why rush the kid?

      1. By Phillies’ standards, it is fast. But the Phillies only promote if they think he can handle it, so he’s off to Reading.

      2. senzel got promoted last year a little earlier, with similar high A numbers, then he took it up a notch in AA. Benintendi had 1 homer in high A when he got promoted after just over a month. Hiura, picked next after Haseley, was great in a but has been in AA a month.

    2. I hear ya TG, but maybe (hopefully) the coaches have seen what they need and feel he’s ready. Besides, Reading’s FirstEnergy Stadium (and others in EL) accentuate the power in hitters. Maybe they feel his recent XBH surge will he fanned best in AA.

      Either way I’m excited for him and the org.
      Go Adam!!

  44. Haseley is ready let’s not forget they know better than us when a guy is ready for his next challenge

    1. Here’s a report on Haseley (after his HR the other night) from Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs:

      “The homer was Haseley’s fifth of the year and his slash line now stands at .301/.344/.417. He’s undergone several swing tweaks this year, starting with a vanilla, up-and-down leg kick last year; a closed, Giancarlo Stanton-like stance early this season; and now an open stance with more pronounced leg kick that loads more toward his rear hip. All that would seem to be part of an effort to get Haseley hitting for more power, his skillset’s most glaring weakness. But Haseley’s swing plane is so flat that such a change may not, alone, be meaningful as far as home-run production is concerned, though perhaps there will be more extra-base hits.

      The way Haseley’s peripherals have trended since college gives us a glimpse of how a relative lack of power alters those variables in pro ball. His strikeout and walk rates at UVA were 11% and 12% respectively, an incredible 7% and 16% as a junior. In pro ball, they’ve inverted, and have been 15% and 5% in about 600 pro PAs.”

  45. Enyel with the nice start tonight. So much further along than Medina…Scott Kingery continues to be terrible. He’s the first guy who needs to be replaced.

    1. Otero, how do you suggest replacing someone you just gave a high value, relatively long-term deal to? You are right that Kingery certainly has not been impressive, but on the bright side not all rookies start out like Concerto. Some start out like Mike Schmidt batting 196 (if I remember correctly) and still have a decent career

      1. That was a bit harsh. I don’t believe in Kingery, but I’m not writing him off. I just think if we’re trying to make the playoffs, he needs to sit. Schmidt was a much better player even that first year when he was struggling. Kingery is basically Steve Jeltz right now. There aren’t many options at SS, but I wouldn’t mind going after Profar if MM is too expensive. I just don’t understand why everyone is looking to replace Franco instead of Kingery.

      2. Yeah, I’d say becoming the greatest third basemen who ever lived constitutes having a “decent career.”

  46. Great job by the kid. I’m sure the Os we’re watching. Who would have thought that Franco would play this well? I’m not sure I replace him at this point. A surprise to me…

  47. After seeing D L S pitch tonight I’d rather offer Pivetta for MM in lieu of Santos; What say you?

    1. Pivetta > DLS

      My offer to the Orioles is still Franco, DLS, one of Cole Irvin/Ranger Saurez, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia.

      1. I was impressed for a first start by Santos. I’m still reluctant to trade too much for Machado. I think no matter what Machado goes to the highest bidder in FA .and with Machado this season I still don’t think the Phillies won a WS. So why trade away the assets?

        Trading away Franco in a Machado deal makes the team weaker. Machado replaces Kingery for the time being. And if he departs FA, Franco would be there as a back up plan.

        You’re willing to give up 21 years of player control for 2-3 months…..I can’t justify that for the current state of this team.

        1. Agree don’t get the hate for Franco. I’m no WAR or Sabermetric guy, but Franco passes my eye test. Hitting .274 he is the not the problem with the team’s offense. In retrospect I think they did Kingery a disservice by rushing him past AAA this spring. I still feel he will be Utley part II, but he is clearly overmatched right now. That said I would keep playing him

        2. Agree with Trenton Guy. MM is unlikely to push the Phillies into WS contention, and I don’t buy that trading for him will make him more likely to sign after the season. So you don’t overpay for a rental that isn’t going to push you over the hump. Since the Orioles asking price appears to be high, forget about trading for MM and make every effort to sign him as a free agent.

        3. @trenton guy – anytime a GM has the opportunity to acquire an elite talent, he needs to pursue that. Machado being a rental doesn’t lessen his abilities but it lessen the assets that the Phillies need to give to get him. I’m on side on pursuing Machado since Machado is not 100% flight risk as long as Middleton is willing to pay a hefty price. Machado’s relationship with some of the key personnel gives the Phillies the inside track to sign Machado in the FA. At some point, the Phillies cannot hold onto all its young players and one of the critical role of a GM is to learn how to consolidate assets.

          I’m never a big fan of both Franco and Moustakas. If Mous is the choice, then he is not an upgrade at all.

          I always play the long game when it comes to evaluating players so I’m not one of those “what have you done to me lately” type of a person. I’ve seen a good stretch of Maikel Franco and seen a longer stretch of a bad Maikel Franco. Hitting at the 8-hole, Franco is serviceable since he is not a liability at defense.

          My long game approach also apply to delos Santos who is having his best career year. The Delos Santos that we saw last night is the same delos Santos that I know based on the scouting reports —- a short armer who can throw up to mid-90s FS, good CU, developing breaking balls and occasional spotty command. Basically, the Eflin projection that Hinkie and I are saying. The only surprise that I noticed is the usage of the CB because I thought that the SL is the preferred pitch over the CB. Good defense and ample early offense did help him settle down easy.

    2. DLS is better than Pivetta and Vinny right now. He just gets how to pitch and once he gets comfortable in the big leagues you’ll have yourself a really fine starter.

      Minus the shimmy he reminds me of a young Cueto…

  48. And Enyel’s night is done. First thing that stands out is that he’s a little wild. He’s all over the place. He has more than enough fastball, and it looks like there’s a bit of deception when he short arms it. His changeup is a little loopy, and as such, probably a tad too slow. Rosario, who’s a terrible hitter, hit I think 2 changeups for triples. He needs to refine that changeup. His 3rd pitch, which I didn’t see often, was his slider. At this point, it’s almost a show-me slider. Not that much break, he needs to work on that one too.

    Still an excellent performance, with stuff to work on for the rest of the season. He should definitely be in the mix for a rotation spot next ST. He has #3 potential.

    1. Isn’t he leading the majors in 0-2 counts with 100 or something. Watching him frustrates me, takes a FB for strike 1 and swings at a ball in the dirt for strike 2. Also loves swinging ag pitches well inside.

    2. @Otero – development needs time and some growing pains and both Kingery and the Phils knows that. If you look around the leagues for the last 10 years, you will notice this situation to a lot of young players going up. Not every players can be Mike Trout. And Kingery is in less than ideal situation that most of the young players coming in the majors.

      Kingery is playing mostly SS and 3B and not a lot of career 2B can play both positions. People love Cesar and Cesar cannot play both positions. It is just unfortunate that 3B and SS are the weakest position and the Phillies forces Kingery to plug those holes. Before Maikel Franco gets hot, he’s terrible in 3B. Before JPC and Florimon, gets hurt, both are not also doing well as SS.

      People wants Kingery to be replaced but the Phillies currently has no SS option. So who will play at SS? Valentin is another option, but can he be better than Kingery?

  49. Santos over Pivetta right now , Pivetta has to further then the 5th tommorow. Franco becoming the hitter we all wanted him to be . His ops is over 1000 this past month. Nick Williams again he’s a hitter. Herrera goes 30 /100 RBIs.
    Kingery playing out of position the hole yr. Still he does have 17doubles and some really good at bats.
    Hoskins is going to kill himself 1 never saw a player drive into a wall.

    1. George Springer of the Houston Astros did a nice run into the wall last night.

  50. DLS’ Delivery
    I think De Los Santos can be a very effective short-arm MLB pitcher..provided he can avoid any arm ailments down the road.
    Apparently with DLS with his short-arm delivery it’s easier to elevate the pitch to get the batter to chase high heat.
    Thats a good thing which also creates another out-pitch.
    i think I read back 6/7 years ago the Canadian National pitching coach was claiming that short arm is better because you can…‘move your muscles faster when they’re tight which gives you faster arm speed and better velocity.’
    .And when pitching from the stretch, short-arming allows pitchers to shorten the length of time it takes to get a pitch off, keeping the runner honest on the base. Maddux was probably one of the best that were more short vs long arm, most of the time
    But you can only benefit from learning to use both I would assume.

  51. I tend to believe in VV and think aside from 1 or 2 horrible starts he’s been solid all year. I think I would skip Pivetta’s next start and try and pitch DLS again. Pivetta just needs a recharge.

    1. How the Hell are the Phillies in first place? Pitching, pitching, pitching. The starters have been better than expected, and the bullpen (despite their slump) has recovered nicely. Offensively and defensively, they are below average. Some refuse to give Kapler credit, and others too much credit. By every preseason prediction, we were picked as a .500 team, yet we stand 12 games above that. How is that possible? I’m not being a wise-ass, I’m serious. What do you think is the most important reason that the Phillies are in first place?

      1. WAS sub performance has something to do with the current NL East standing. WAS is currently 16-17 against NL East (ATL is 27-14, PHI is 17-18) and with losing record against everybody except MIA. WAS is 4-6 vs ATL and PHI, 2-4 vs NYM but 6-1 vs MIA. WAS is also bad against the NL West 13-16 and Intraleague 9-11.

        Performance wise, the Phillies is one of the best in 1-run games and tops in come from behind victories. To interpret this, it means that solid starting pitching and no bullpen implosion with timely late inning hits contributes to the current Phillies success.

      2. Phillies:
        Rank 1st…walks per game at 3.93
        Rank 11th…OBP…321
        Rank 14…..Runners Left in Scoring Position…3.42/game

        1. Phillies also rank first in pitches received per at bat . In short they are wearing out starting pitchers.

  52. I like Haseley although I preferred to Shane Baz at the time he was drafted. I’m not sure if it was Jeff (Israel) who gave the Brett Gardner comparable, if that’s true. it is not something I can get excited about.

    Sixto and Medina are the ones I’m looking forward to next week year hopefully in red pin stripes.

    1. Yeah, I remember the Brett Gardner comparisons for Haseley. The comparisons were a mixed bag IMO. On one hand, Gardner is a pretty decent MLB player. One the other hand, and it’s like “meh, is that the best we can do with the #8 overall pick?”

      1. Brett Gardner has been a solid player for a long time. He’s not flashy but he’s been very good his whole career. You can do a heck of a lot worse than Brett Gardner.

        1. yes, and for a Top 10 pick, GM can also do better than a Brett Gardner. It work both ways. Johnny A. has ample choice of high ceiling prospects to choice from but settled for high floor instead that’s why he ended up with Randolph, Moniak and Haseley.

          1. The Phillies had their share of high ceiling guys in the past (Jeff Jackson, Gavin Floyd) and they didn’t pan out either. Our 90s draft picks were full of players who had the tools but couldn’t hit enough (and some not at all).

            Whether it’s high floor or high ceiling, that’s not the issue anymore. The Phillies have missed picks on both sides of the coin. They need to start getting players who can contribute. Getting the next Mike Trout is great, but getting Brett Gardner is not bad either.

            1. Brett Gardner a 38bWAR career player over 11 years…I only hope Adam Haseley ends up like Brett Gardner.

            2. @romus – i’m sure that are players within Gardner’s bWAR who are better play makers. You know my stand with those WAR thing — it’s to measure a player’s value if replaced by an available minor leaguer or AAA player so it is not to measure a player’s abilities. give me a play maker anytime, any day and I will not care what his WAR, bWAR or fWAR says. I like abilities that translates to plays in the field not a number being spit out by a formula.

            3. @Guru – high floor vs high ceiling does matter. Teams acquired prospects not only to develop them as part of their major leagues but these prospects serve as “currencies” or “trade assets”. Most if not all GMs value a high ceiling prospects in any trade and they follow the high risk high reward concept. Also high floor prospects lose value easily when they don’t perform. Unlike high ceiling prospects, the leash is longer.

            4. @romus – nah! I didn’t invent WAR so I’m just following the definition. I used to believe in WAR before until I saw the what it means and how it is calculated. WAR makes things simple but the variables are to many to come up with one meaningful and acceptable calculation. So i rather debate who is the better MLB doing the old medieval way of eye test vs projection vs actual play in the field vs stats.

            5. @ kuko, the odds of a high ceiling player failing is higher than high floor players. And the Phillies were drafting that way in the 90s, and failed spectacularly. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t draft high ceiling players, I’m saying that we can’t draft them all the time. It sounds like you only want high ceiling players in the first round. Take a look at the high ceiling players you wanted in the draft in the first round the last 5 years, and see where they are. I don’t think you will like what you see either.

  53. Fortunately, it’s been a pretty good year for our minor league pitching, because it sure as heck has been a fairly bad year for the hitters almost up and down the system – something that is nearly unforgivable given that we’ve used our last 4 first round picks on hitters (only one of whom is doing relatively well [Hasesley] and even he’s not light the world on fire). I’d say the whole system is slightly above average (10-15) – with pitching being in the top 10 and hitting being in the bottom 10.

    1. Then again hitters ( lower tier prospects) that were not expected to produce have come on…Grullon, Pujols, Zach Green, Jan Hernandez, Austin Listi to name a few above Hi-A.
      It is just that hyped prospects , Moniak and Randolph, along with two who were expected to turn the corner in AAA, Cozens and Quinn, have all stumbled.

  54. Bruce Rondon was DFA’d for our good friend Jeanmar Gomez!

    I’m wondering if Rondon has any options. He’s still 27 and throws upper 90s, but he’s walking guys at a crazy rate.

    1. Last night’s game was really funny and sad.
      That 1/3 inning he had must have drove the manager bonkers.
      Four batters..three out recorded…14 pitches….two strikes.

  55. Ken Giles…’effed up”
    Hinch pulled Giles in the ninth inning of Tuesday’s 6-5 win over the Oakland Athletics at Minute Maid Park after the righty closer gave up two hits without recording an out. Giles appeared to say, “F–k you, man,” to Hinch as he handed him the ball.

  56. Phillies are smart in how they are maximizing Nola’s starts through the end of July:

    Sat vs Marlins
    All star game next Tue as bullpen day
    Fri 7/20 vs SD
    Wed 7/25 vs LAD
    Tue 7/31 @ Boston

  57. The Phillies can’t continue to waste excellent pitching performances with putrid hitting as Washington will get hot sometime. The Phillies need some hitters so the opposition can’t pitch around Hoskins, Santana and Franco.

    1. You’re complaining that the Phillies got shut out by Jacob DeGrom? It’s freakin’ Jacob DeGrom! He’s a monster.

      1. They still had chances to score and did not come through against him and the Met relievers later in the game. Also, Odubel Herrera needs to be rested/sat down as he looks lost on the field and he a key player.

        1. Everybody has chances to score against deGrom, but there’s a reason why he’s leading baseball in ERA.

          I’m not sure why people still have it in for Odubel.Sure, his defense looks a little worse than last year, but he has Hoskins in 1 corner and Williams at the other. Odubel is the least of the Phillies problems, that’s for sure.

          1. I love Doobie all his flaws included but he does seem to be a guy that needs to be rested every now and again.

            1. Everybody needs a rest now and then, not just Odubel. And if Odubel gets a rest, Altherr has to play. So If you’re Gabe, you want to pencil in Odubel or Altherr?

    2. Although Hoskins and Santana are walking at a decent rate, they also need to hit better and increase their hitting average by 0.200. Hoskins and Santana are currently at .255 and .214, respectively, not good enough to be the main run producer. While taking a BB is good, getting a hit is better since it gives better chances to produce a run.

    1. They should be interested in Britton (through trade right now and free agency this winter). He’s beginning to pitch much better since coming off the DL/over the past week and a half. His velo is up, and his sinker is working again resulting in mostly K’s and ground balls. He would solve the Phillies need for a LHRP.

  58. The worse performance was Game 1. They had 4 different chances to score a run before Extra Innings and 3-1 over the Mets is a lot better than 2-2. DeGrom is terrific, no doubt, but the fact still remains that they HAVE to acquire another bat, and a LH RP. Klentak needs to earn his keep.

    1. With Williams starting most of the games, the Phillies bench sucks. I’d like to see Klentak go after Merryfield and or Granderson. If we had a second LH reliever last night, Nimmo doesn’t bat in the 10th inning.

  59. And, I agree with KuKo. Hoskins and Santana need another .20 on their averages. I wonder if there was another legit bat in the lineup would that happen organically?

    1. actually, that’s the bright line in the current hitting group — most are hitting below their norm, thus, some opportunity to improve. unlike ATL, where some batters are hitting better than expected, it’s the opposite for the Phils.

      I always push for a legit elite talent that’s why i want to trade for Machado and Realmuto. But if Klentak doesn’t want to spend big, he better find hitters who has a knack on making timely hits — basically an equivalent of NBA’s Robert Horry type.

      The Twins will be in the sell mode and they have an impending FA in Eduardo Escobar – 29 yo playing SS/3B. Currently hitting .272/.328/.517 with 14 HRs and 54 RBIs and a decent BB and K. A rental with no name that’s hitting well, maybe a Klentak type of a player and will probably cost him for some low minors prospects.

      1. Escobar would be a great get but he is well known inside the GM community so he won’t get him for nothing because all the teams chasing MM are also in on Escobar…

      2. KK – plus he was leading all of MLB in doubles. A very good hitter for an infielder. But he is no secret on top of which he is expected to return to Minnesota after he becomes a free agent – at least I have seen it written that way ???

      3. I still prefer Machado. We’ll see how the market progress closer to the deadline. Eduardo Escobar i think is a perfect band aid solution. He’s playing well but I don’t expect any GMs to pay much to acquire him since he doesn’t have a long track record of success unlike the bigger names.

    1. I mentioned Familia but it was brought up his domestic abuse incident. He was never charged or found guilty but did suffer a suspension from it.

      I’d still take Familia but I think there are more creative routes.

      What about trading Hunter/Milner to Cleveland for prospects and then trade for Diekman/Hamels from Texas. I really like Jonathan Rodriguez in their minors they got in the draft last year.

      Move Pivetta to the pen (for the rest of ’18 at least).

      Then trade for Escobar and move Kingery into the super utility role and send Valentin back to AAA.

      Just a thought

      1. I don’t think the Phillies want anything to do with Familia and his off the field issues. I remember Brett Myers having that stuff, and he was gone at the end of the season.

        We gave Hunter the money, he’s not performing well, and you think we can trade him? So the Phillies will have to eat money to trade Hunter, and you won’t get much for a non-performing reliever.

        Milner got DFA’d. When the time comes, put in a waiver claim and get him for free.

        1. Guru – The Phillies brought in KRod this spring training and the city of Philadelphia fully endorsed Michael Vick after his time served. I don’t think trading for Familia is above them in the least bit.

          As for Hunter, he’s been ok his last 6 or 7 games and he’d be massively better than what the Indians are currently throwing out of their pen. So why not kick the tires on it? Milner was also selected by them in the rule V, maybe they still have interest since currently the only other lefty option for them is Oliver Perez.

          These moves won’t happen but alternative solutions are out there. I just don’t see the Phillies getting Machado, especially if the Yanks are willing to deal Sheffield.

          1. I think if you’re the Phillies, you need to consider Familia’s off the field issues. His stuff was only 2 years ago.

            If I’m the Indians, I’m going after a top bullpen guy. If they want Milner, they can select him on waivers. As for Hunter, you figure that his ERA will get WORSE in the AL and it’s already bad now. No way I trade for Hunter unless the Phillies eat almost all of his existing contract.

  60. MLBTR: Yankees, Dodgers and Brewers have reportedly separated themselves from the pack in pursuit of Manny.

    1. ARI main trade asset in Duplantier is injured so likely that take them out. LAD unlikely to trade Verdugo and Ruiz but willing to offer Alvarez and May. NYY don’t want to trade Torres/Andujar, Florial and Sheffield (who BAL wants) so a deal with Adams + Frazier + Tate is the possible although I ask for Sauer if I’m Duquette.

      MIL might be the dark horse team and showed that they are willing to compete when they sign Lorenzo Cain and tap the farm to acquire Yelich. MIL have arms ranked in Top 100 to offer in Ortiz, Burnes and Woodruff and have some spare young OF to add.

    2. And that makes sense as those teams have legit chance to go to the WS…

      I’m enjoying the ride so I really can’t be disappointed this season. If I have any disappointment it will be that JP didn’t get an ample shot at SS to prove himself. Injuries aside.

      1. @DMAR – agree. After last season ended, I’m excited to see how an INF of 1B Hoskins – 2B Kingery – SS JPC will turn out and for Quinn to finally get serious MLB at bat. As posted here before, the success of the Eagles and Villanova and the run made by the Sixers (and Flyers making the playoffs too) put the Phillies in an unforgiving situation and undue expectation. I’m actually OK if Klentak stand pat and let it ride for the rest of the season. If the Phillies made the playoffs, all major teams made the play offs this year! Who would think of that possible in 2018.

  61. KuKo, We have a number of players that have to be on the 40 Man after the season. I was never in favor of moving top prospects, but if some of those 40 man bubble guys can be moved for help now, and it gets us into the Playoffs, I want and expect Klentak to make those moves.

    1. @matt 13 – I already did the math of the 40-man and assuming no moves are made until the end of the season, the Phils can protect the good prospects and young players with 1-2 spots to sign FAs.

      Currently, the Phils have 42 players representing the full 40-man and Eick and Florimon in the 60-DL. These 8 players can be deemed expandable:

      1) Curtis
      2) Neris
      3) Garcia
      4) Leiter
      5) Lively
      6) Walding
      7) Plouffe
      8) Florimon

      This will reduce the roster to 34. Then protect the following:

      1) Medina
      2) Eshelman
      3) Edgar Garcia

      The roster goes up to 37 and the Phils can consider protecting Gamboa, Gilbert or sign some FAs

      1. Thanks KuKo, I wonder what the value of Lively and Leiter may be in a trade. Certainly not a lot, but should have some.

        1. I think you may have to write off Ben Lively from any trade discussions this season.
          Has not pitched in two months and had some back issues in April and now may have some shoulder issues happening….not sure what is occuring with his status.
          So any trades are probably on the shelf for awhile.

  62. There is a lot of talk about moving starters, for example VV and Pinetta, to the pen, and there have been some notable successes from that route. But I wonder if there is a way to quantify the reduction in ceiling between a starter to a reliever. (i’m thinking Rollie Fingers though maybe there have been better examples)

    1. One player who did it for a year and excelled as a starter for a few prior years, than a reliever for four ,than back to a starter….Smoltz.
      His WAR actually dipped as a reliever but he was near the top of the leader board for saves in three of those four years.

      1. Romus – I could be wrong but didn’t TJ surgery Force him into the pen? Or was that later?

        I believe he’s the 1st TJ pitcher to go into the HoF.

        1. Correct Trenton……the year prior to the TJ he was losing it as a starter…but his return was when Rocker was going out of the picture so Braves Coach Cox asked him to go to the pen and was lights out his first full season as their closer.

  63. Add Keith Law to the growing list of those who feel Manny Machado will sign with the Phillies this winter:

    Welcome Back Kapler: You being high on Kap as a manager was basically the only reason that I gave him a chance after the disastrous first week as a manager. How do you think he has done? Secondly – do you think the Phillies will get him help like Machado or should they stay the course and sign Machado/Harper in the offseason (either one).
    Keith Law: I think he’s done extremely well, and I agree with others who’ve said they’re the favorites for Machado, between the front office connections, their financial wherewithal, and the non-development of Franco (although he’s had a nice few weeks).

    Also … this for the late, great rocco from Law’s chat, yesterday:

    danb: still buying Kingery?
    Keith Law: Yes.

    1. Well if the Phillies somehow do not get Manny , nor Harper, then maybe Trout could be obtained a year from now.
      Scenario…….if the Angels fail to make the playoffs again this season, they sit at .500 and out of it with Garrett Richards now TJ done until 2020 also, and stumble again next season for the first three months…..Arte Moreno may not want to go thru what his colleague the Angelos family is going thru now with Manny, selling pennies on the dollar in his walk year….and may be willing to deal Mike Trout next July for a boatload of assets rather than risk Mike walking in free agency and back to Philly after 2020..

      1. Arte Moreno is an owner who’s not afraid to spend. Peter Angelos is a cheapskate. Moreno will do (and spend) whatever it takes to keep Trout in California.

        1. Agree with Guru. Moreno will not trade Trout next summer. Moreno (unlike Angelos) will be willing to pay anything to re-sign Trout.
          That said … Trout wants to win (at least be taking part in the playoffs). That may ultimately lead to Trout giving up on the Angels. Trout is under contract for two more seasons after this year. Between having to play in the same division as the Astros and having a pitching staff that can’t stay healthy, there’s a pretty good chance the LAA will miss the post season in 2019 and 2020. If that happens, IMO, Trout will test free agency. And if he hits the open market, Trout will choose between two teams … Angels or Phillies.

          1. @Hinkie, agree with you that it will be like 49-49-2 for LAA, PHI and Field to sign Mike Trout when he test FA. Unlike most athletes who love the LA lifestyle and rub elbows with celebrities, I don’t see Mr. and Mrs. Trout ditching the Northeaster weather over the sunny weather in south Cali. The Phillies also have their best recruiter in Carson Wentz, Zach Ertz and Joel Embiid who will be beating the “Bring Mike (Trout) Home” drum in 2 years time!

            Looking at Mike Trout should also bring pressure to Middleton and company to sign big time FAs and make Philly a destination for FA and home of the champions! If the Phillies have Machado and the top young guns and prospects perform as expected, this will make Trout’s decision to go home easier!

            1. KuKo … yes. The Trouts have built a new home on ~300 acres in Milville. He got married (in the snow) in Millville last December.

              I like the Phillies chances, if Trout does decide to test free agency.
              Here are the last few paragraphs from a Trout story from a cou[ple of years ago

              “He’s a family guy. He loves his (three-legged) dog. He’s close with his mother. He has a great group of friends here he’s had since he was a little kid. He’s very tight with his brother and sister and he loves his niece and nephew. He grew up fishing and hunting and clamming these woods and these waters.”

              Besides wanting to stay near family, Trout also probably wants to stay in an area with seasons.

              The self-described “weather geek” spent the offseason at home and joined The Weather Channel’s Jim Cantore to do a live report during the January blizzard.

            2. If the Angels miss the playoffs and the Phillies are a contender, you can boost it to 60-38-2 for the Phillies. Trout is a case where he’s a hometown guy and definitely wants to be back. But the money is going to be insane. He could be a $50M per year guy.

            3. Besides signing MM (and probably a LHP) this winter … here’s something else the Phillies should consider. Klentak should offer Garrett Richards a two year/10 million dollar contract.
              * You pay Richards 3 million in 2019 while he rehabs from TJ.
              * You pay Richards 7 million in 2020 when he should be healthy and pitching for the Phillies.
              * Most importantly, Richards is Mike Trout’s best friend in baseball. Richards was his best man last December. Trout also likes to play practical jokes on Richards. See below.

              Bottom line … for 10 million dollars … the Phillies worst case scenario is they maybe gain a slight edge over the Angels in a Mike Trout FA battle . The best case scenario is Richards gives the Phillies a really good arm in 2020 (similar to what Nathan Eovaldi has been for the Rays) when the team should be competing for a WS title.

            4. @Hinkie – great minds do think alike. I’m also thinking the same thing when I saw the news that Richards will get the axe and done for the year. Tyler Skaggs is also a good buddy of Mike Trout and will be FA the same year as Trout. I like your proposed Cesar-Skaggs trade before and I will like it up to now since LAA will soon look for a reliable 2B when Kinsler hits FA.

          2. Will see what Moreno will do if it comes down to next July and Mike makes it known he is going out to free agency.
            Right now it is pure speculation.
            But it is a copy cat league….and whatever happens in the next 18 days with the Orioles and the Machado events, may have a bearing on Moreno’s future decisions when it comes to his superstar free agent.

            1. I think it’s unlikely Trout tells Moreno (next summer), “I’m going to test free agency”. It’s more likely Trout refuses to negotiate a new contract and, instead, tells Moreno, “I want to win. Let’s see how things go in 2020 before I consider a LTC.”

        2. The state tax rate in CA is 7.25% (and rising) and in PA is 3%. Do you know how much 4.25% of $300 million is?

          A LOT.

          1. Actually I believe the state income tax is 13.3%. It was mentioned with Lebron James contrsct

            1% on the first $7,850 of taxable income.
            2% on taxable income between $7,851 and $18,610.
            4% on taxable income between $18,611 and $29,372.
            6% on taxable income between $29,373 and $40,773.
            8% on taxable income between $40,774 and $51,530.
            9.3% on taxable income between $51,531 and $263,222.
            10.3% on taxable income between $263,223 and 315,866.
            11.3% on taxable income between $315,867 and $526,443.
            12.3% on taxable income of $526,444 and above.
            A 1% surcharge, the mental health services tax, is collected on taxable incomes of $1 million or more, making California’s highest marginal rate 13.3%.

            PA is max of 3.07, but philadelphia adds on an additional 3.92 so total is 6.99

            That’s still far less than 13.3% tho

    2. Another Rocco gem “Kapler is a carnival barker” and has no business being an MLB manager. Priceless.

    3. Kingery’s been experiencing growing pains while playing out of position. He will be a star. Maybe not this season but by the time the Millville Meteor arrives.

  64. MLB radio via Sirius had a number of discussions about Harper’s awful 2018. Numerous respected analysts commented that he is now most likely to stay with Nats and will get nowhere near the $400 million Boros and he expected. Many said they don’t even think he is a $25 million player per year any longer. He pales in comparison to J D Martinez for example and look how long it took for him to be signed. That said – what consequence does this have on the MM market if Harper is not “really” available because no team would pay him what the Nats will pay him to stay there. That seems to be more and more the case ?

    1. Not sure who the “respected analysts” were but I expect Harper will still get paid $25m per season. Not sure $400 million was close to realistic… The only wildcard is that Boros might talk to the Nats about a short-term (1-2 year) deal and then retry the FA market again in another year or two.

      1. The Nats are in a bind. They are almost obligated to give Bryce the money because of how many Boras clients are there. Boras will want $400M, but he won’t get it. I think Bryce will have to “settle” for 10 years, $250M with an out clause after year 2 and maybe year 6.

  65. Chase may be retiring today.
    Will be in Philly first weekend of August if that is the case.

    1. They’re saying he’s going to retire at the end of the season, even though he’s under contract for 2019.

      1. Was hoping he would be in Phily next month….though he will be here in two weeks.

  66. There are reports that the Phillies increased their trade offer for Machado. Anybody have any insider information?

    1. The Phillies original offer of Franco, DLS, one of Saurez/Irvin, and one of Gamboa/Maton/Guzman/Luis Garcia just looks better now that we know the recently reported offers from the Yankees and Dodgers were fake news (leaked by the Orioles).

        1. I know nothing for certain. This is just me connecting dots.
          I’m certain they don’t see Franco as a long term piece of this team. They’ll want to deal him while he is playing well. They could have sold him this off-season, but they would have gotten back nickles on the dollar. He’s going good now (it won’t last). The O’s will need a 3Bman so they can move Tim Beckham back over to SS.

          1. I got to figure Franco and DLS are 100% in the final trade proposal. It now comes down to what the additional cost is…

            You got to figure New York is offering Andujar and probably Frazier as well.

            I do wonder what the Dodgers actually offered to be categorized as one of the strongest offers on the table.

  67. Bet De Los Santos is in the “deal” after his start the other day. Yes, they needed him to pitch but that was also a showcase. Wonder if a reliever is also coming this way with MM ?

  68. Gabe may rearrange the rotation after the break.
    Nola heads it off vs the Padres next Friday the 20th.
    I wonder if he will have Arrieta going as the 2 on Saturday with 7 days rest?

  69. Here’s my question to the board:

    Is Machado enough to allow Kingery to slide into a super utility role and support the bench and not need additional outfield bats or should the Phills also pursue another bat?

    I’d think this coupled with a lefty reliever and possible lefty starter would be it…no?

  70. Guys, I’d love to have MM but I am choosing to (pretty foolishly) dream of making a bigger offer for the bigger dream! (And I’ll be honest, I’ve rolled my eyes for years at all the “we should trade for Trout” comments. But Angels are pretty far from playoff contention this year and next year is 2019 and well, …I can’t help but think…. maybe now we could dream. Probably not. But maybe?!

    If you were Angels GM Eppler, would you even entertain an offer for Trout such as….

    > Cesar Hernandez (they need 2B, and we can put Kingery at his best position)
    > Nick Williams (he’s become pretty valuable, but we won’t have room and Angels will need OF)
    > Zach Eflin OR DLS (young quality SP. whoever we don’t trade is our 5th SP rest of yr)
    > Adonis Medina (we’d need to give a major SP prospect.
    > One of Brito/JGuzman/B/Gonzalez
    > Another player (either a D/Anderson/R.Suarez/C.Irvin type, OR even Roman Quinn if they want CF)

    They’d get a near-stud in Cesar, more MLB ready-and-tested players in N.Williams & Eflin/DLS, another player (AAA) on cusp, and two more quality prospects a couple years away, including a stud SP prospect.

    It seems like a great haul. Is it enough though to make the Angels even think about it? I totally understand they likely have literally 0 intention of trading him. BUT, maybe a crazy offer would get their attention.

    I’m generally not a proponent of trading lots of players/prospects. But for Trout, I’d give half the world if I was in control. He’s worth it for what he’d mean to this team/org/city!

    I’m probably foolish to even post this. But as I read of possible reality of trading a bunch of players for MM, I can’t help but dream of going after the bit fish! Trout!

    1. A trade for the best player in baseball with another year of control is going to start with Nola/Sixto and Kingery and go from there. If they trade Trout, they’re rebuilding; simple as that. They don’t want Cesar for a rebuild.

      Williams and Eflin would appeal to them, I’m sure, but they’re not the echelon of player that gets a deal done. And, as good as Medina is, you need to offer the best for the best. Medina isn’t Sixto.

      Trades for good players sting. Trades for great players cripple farm systems.

      If I were the Angels and the Phils came calling for Trout, I’d start negotiations by saying Sixto, Kingery, Williams, Eflin, Gamboa. If they said no and offered less, I’d hang up and wait for the other 28 teams to call.

      1. Agreed. I feel that’s same/similar as what I wrote.

        I actually had Sixto in there but removed him since he’s injured (and does anyone really know if he’s not going to be out for a year?). I’d definitely include Sixto.
        And I’d gladly put Kingery instead of Cesar. We’d still have Cesar!

        In fact, I’d ADD to what you wrote.

        Sixto, Kingery, Williams, Eflin, Gamboa, …AND another player or Two (either mid-level SP or Quinn if they want CF, ..Or both).

        I do not think it would cripple the farm system given how deep we are and given you’re getting Mike Trout!
        What cripples a system is making 4 trades for good players or s/t rentals. I’d Much rather trade a big package for a STUD for l/t! I feel it’s much wiser than giving up as much as we likely will for 2 months of MM.

        Plus, I still like Franco at 3B. I’ve never given up on him.

        …The question is, might the Angels Eppler consider it? If so, MAKE THE CALL KLENTAK!

        1. The Angels aren’t letting Trout hit free agency. Moreno will back up the Brinks truck and pay him close to half a billion to keep him in Los Angeles. It’s fun to imagine him in a Phillies uniform, but it’s never going to happen.

          1. I know you’re right. Like I wrote, I often roll my eyes at past mentions of Trout to the Phillies. Just can’t help myself lately with all the talk of trading prospects for MM. Everyone has their price, so just fantasizing what might get the Angels attention.

          2. Mike H … you’re right when you say Arte Moreno will back up the Brinks truck to re-sign Mike Trout. However:
            1. Trout wants to win. He’s only appeared in the playoffs one year (3 games).
            2. Trout knows he can get the same monster contract from multiple clubs.

            Therefore … the Angels will be desperate to field a post-season squad before Mike Trout’s contract runs out in 2020. Two problems for them: they can’t keep their pitchers healthy (over the past three seasons, just about every guy who has been a part of their starting rotation has missed significant time with injuries [most with TJ]), and (just as daunting) the LAA play in the same division as the Astros. They’re not making the playoffs this season. If they don’t reach the post season in 2019 or 2020, IMO there’s a good chance Trout opts for free agency. If that happens, I very much like the Phillies chances of landing him.

            So … John K … the chances of the Phillies being able to trade for Mike Trout (BTW … your proposed offer wouldn’t even come close to landing Trout if he were hypothetically available), don’t lose the faith. If the LAA get shut out of the playoffs over the next two and a half seasons, there is a realistic path for Mike Trout (who already lives in Millville during the offseason) to be playing in CBP in 2021.

    1. they would appear to be a game behind the cubs and brewers? maybe by the break though. but a 9-3 start to the month, where they had a chance to win all 3 they lost with 1 pitch going differently, is great.

  71. Rotation Change Up—-Post All-Star Break?
    Hope Gabe moves Arrieta into the number two spot after the break.
    Nola on Friday the 20th vs Pads to lead it off, then Arrieta on Saturday.
    He will have had 7 days rest by the 21st and hopefully he is getting into his stretch drive groove.
    Plus the move up will give him one more extra start in Sept, barring any injuries, from 13, to a 14th start in the second half.

  72. It is really been a fascinating year so far. When I watch the team play, aside from stellar pitching, they drive me crazy. They get On Base, and can’t get key hits. Yet, they have done enough to lead the Division and be right there with the top teams in the NL, record wise. Not a single player has exceeded expectations, and most of the starting lineup has fallen short. I believe that Hoskins and Kingery will get better as the season goes on, so we have hope that they will continue to play well. I believe Klentak will add at the deadline, but, I can’t explain why they have had this success, or why a guy who screwed up the first game he managed, then called for a RP who had not warmed up, is now at the top of the Manager of the Year race? It has been a crazy season so far, and kudos to the team.

    1. The success is coming from the pitching. Eflin, Dominguez, and Nola are all VASTLY outperforming their pre-season expectations. Nola could have been somewhat reasonably expected (although a low 3 ERA is always more reasonable to predict than a low 2). But no one saw Dominguez carving up MLB this early coming, and less than no one could have predicted Eflin being worth about as many wins as Cole on a rate basis based on what we had seen from him already.

      There’s likely some regression coming on that front (although there’s also the possibility Arrieta, Vinny, and Pivetta find their respective grooves). But the success seems sustainable considering how many of the hitters have been under-performing but coming on a bit more lately.

    2. Your expectations might have been pretty high for Franco, but he has definitely far-exceeded mine, and on a lower scale so has Williams and Alfaro. On the other hand, Hoskins especially defensively but partially offensively has submarined his in my view. Though his slow start slants the seasonal records, I’d hoped for more from Santana

  73. Does it make any sense to offer more in trades knowing that we’ll be having a 40 man crunch soon? Obviously we’d prefer to give quantity than quality but does that factor in out all? If you think you’ll lose someone bc of the rule 5 anyway. It’d be nice to still have Tocci in the system, no?

    1. “It’d be nice to still have Tocci in the system, no?”…not sure where you are going with that!.
      If Quinn was able to stay healthy for just one year and of all years , this season, I do not think having Tocci would have made any difference.

    2. Is Tocci that good that you still want him in the system? Seriously? He has a .286 OPS in a hitters park! That’s not a typo. He’s slugging .086!

  74. Based on reputation throughout the league, his impact on his teams and a 5-6 year run, he was,IMO ,a HoF player. But, his numbers are not where the “standards” say he should be. I love Utley and I hope he gets in, but I don’t know how the voters view him. He was the premier 2B of his generation, Cano with PEDs does not even count.

    1. Shame Phillies could not win that 2009 WS….he may have been the WS MVP with those 5 HRs and almost 1.5.OPS, and would have done well for his reputation nationally.

  75. Adonis Medina has been selected to replace Enyel De Los Santos to represent the Phillies in the MLB Futures game. The game is Sunday at Nats Park in D.C. at 4:00 ET …seen on MLB Network.

  76. Machado… is really important for this rebuild, especially since Franco has run his course. Yes, he is picked it up as of late, but I would beat against that continuing. I would trade a significant amount in trade value to bring him on, and put the full court press on to sign him. Here is my two cents:

    We need a 3B or SS upgrade, we have the pieces to deal
    We have a roster crunch, in terms of the 40 man roster, but also for SP spots. Klentak needs to make room, use them as sweetners

    I’d be happy to give Ortiz (it hurts but, thats how trades for top players go), Saurez and/or Kilome, Gamboa(sp), and Franco. You can add Anderson, DLS, or another. I’d be willing to go higher, but at the same time i think this is more than is being offered by others.

    I honestly believe that Machado will be a phillie next year, so I’m willing to hedge the bet and give more at the deadline to increase our chances of him signing a FA contract with the Phillies. I think he doesn’t hit FA if they trade for him. It is a gut feeling. Middleton will give him what he wants. Boom done. It will be overpay but it is time for Middleton to throw his money around.

    1. Who knows Brady Anderson and Dan Duquette may be driving over to take a quick peak first hand at Adonis Medina tomorrow in Nats Park.
      i thought Phillies decided to replace DLS because he would be on three days rest…..but tomorrow would be a bullpen session anyway for him and only one inning pitched in the Futures Game….but maybe they want to further showcase Adonis Medina instead for the Os brass.

      1. Yeah, I’d bet the Orioles will have multiple sets of eyes on Medina if/when he gets into the game. Even though Medina is on my * WILL NOT TRADE FOR A RENTAL LIST (EVEN IF IT IS MM), it sounds like he would have to be the headliner if Klentak is going to get a Machado deal done.
        BTW … the O’s are reportedly scouting the Clearwater and GCL teams. Those two GCL teams are housing some really impressive (maybe really hot because it is a SSS) bats. I could see Baltimore falling in love with any of Luis Garcia, Nicolas Torres, Jake Holmes, Carlos De La Cruz, Abrahan Gutierrez, or DJ Stewart.
        Also … Logan Simmons (off to a slow start) and Logan O’Hoppe (KuKo’s guy) aren’t eligible to be traded, but they are two more young position players to really like in the GCL.

        * Here, again, is my “Will not trade for a rental” list … JP Crawford, Scott Kingery, Nick Pivetta, VV, Zach Eflin, Ser-Ant’ny, Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, JoJo Romero, Francisco Morales Kevin Gowdy, and Jhaliyn Ortiz.
        However … I guess the longer the Phillies play this well, the more I can accept Klentak including a guy like Adonis Medina in a MM deal. The club owes it to the players to supplement their team as they battle for the division title. Machado would, obviously, be a shot in the arm to this squad.

  77. If Kilome, Ranger and De Los Santos are the cost, do we do that? Sixto is “no way” to me and Medina is close. So, those 3 Pitchers and Carlos De La Cruz, does that work?

    1. Medina is not close. He has a 4.92 ERA in the FSL, which is a known pitcher’s league. He’s AT LEAST 2 years behind.

  78. Okay, I didn’t want to fan the Machado trade rumors any more than the media has with their speculation from their “sources”. But, …

    What if the Phillies acquire Machado, and he isn’t against signing an extension provided they can agree on the money.

    But, what if the Yankees acquire Machado, and he isn’t against signing an extension provided they can agree on the money.

    That would indicate that there is an avenue for at least two of his suitors to avoid free agency. And, maybe he feels that way about some other suitors.

    Now, if true, trading for Machado becomes increasingly more important.

    And, if true, then the package in a Machado trade has to be sweetened.

    So, the Phillies are going to have to trade for Machado rather than rely on free agency. And it’s not unlikely that the Phillies wouldn’t try to expand the deal to include Zach Britton since they have a realistic opportunity to compete for a world series appearance this season.

    So, a trade might include Medina, Kilome, Altherr, Gamboa, one of the Lakewood starting pitchers (figure the most painful to lose), and maybe one more player yet to be determined.

    Now, assuming that Machado can be extended and that Britton will opt for free agency, is that too much to give up? Note: as of today, let’s say that Sanchez and DLS are off the table.

    If I’m the Orioles and know that Machado is likely to sign an extension, I might hold out for another top pitcher (DLS, for instance) or young prospect (like an Ortiz or a De La Cruz).

    Well? Thoughts? And please don’t say, “Machado won’t sign an extension” as your thought. Play along, pretend there’s a reason I’m offering this speculation.

    1. I would do this deal if Britton and MM were both included. MM changes this whole lineup.

    2. If I’m the Phillies, that scenario would have to be more concrete than MM being “likely to sign an extension”; that wouldn’t cut it. If MM and the Phillies come to terms before the trade (i.e., a sign and trade deal, ala the NBA), then obviously the Orioles would have to receive more. If Britton was also included, I would be okay with giving up the guys you mention. Only difference I would offer Franco instead of DLS or De La Cruz.

    3. Ok, Jim …

      1. Machado is not going to sign an extension 🙂 …. However, trading for him would allow the Phillies to legally begin selling him on the idea of re-signing with the team when he enters free agency this winter.

      2. I’m all for expanding the deal to include Zach Britton. In fact, Jim Salisbury (on the pregame show) reported the Phillies want Britton as part of the deal. Britton is also a rental, and the Phillies could get an up close look at him and allow them to sell him on an extension.

      3. Now that it looks like the Phillies have a realistic shot at winning the division (not just a WC), I’m more open to dealing a better prospect(s).

      4. Because the Phillies are not going to give up Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina will probably have to headline the Phillies offer. I would definitely do the deal you proposed. However, I think Baltimore might insist on DLS over Kilome. I also believe Franco makes more sense (for both sides) than Altherr. I’m ok with trading Gamboa. The Phillies are really deep at the SS position (in fact, I have moved Maton in front of Gamboa on my new Phillies’ prospect list).

      My old offer for Manny Machado was: Franco, DLS, one of Irvin/Saurez, and one of Gamboa/Maton/Guzman/Luis Garcia

      My new offer for MM and Zach Britton: Franco, Adonis Medina, DLS, Gamboa, and Will Stewart

      1. Yeah, all this has been a fun exercise, but it’s all moot unless MM agrees to and signs an extension BEFORE the trade. No way the Phillies should give up a horde of good, controllable prospects unless they are ensured that MM is locked up and not just a short term rental.

    4. BAL is an organization that I don’t see going thru a long rebuilding process. With a weak farm, it will be really appealing to BAL to acquire cost controlled players who are already MLB ready. I always advocate “selling when the value is high” – and the following players/prospects (exlcude GCL due to SSS) whose value are high — Eflin, delos Santos, Stewart, Parkinson and Stewart.

      BAL preferred arms and the Phils preferred to keep Eflin than Medina. But IMO, if they offer Eflin, Franco, delos Santos, Gamboa and Parkinson (closer to MLB than Stewart) and possibly add one of Abrahan Gutierrez Jake Holmes as lottery tickets for Machado and Britton — this is already a strong offer while keeping the top end talents in the farm.

      And Hinkie is correct, I like Logan O’Hoppe a lot —- I’m riding this horse where most are in the Rodolfo Duran bandwagon. Torres and Luis Garcia are looking good right now, I will not be surprised if BAL will ask one of them as the throw in.

    5. Would also like to see some intl slot $ come our way. If we can’t resign either, we don’t get to offer and submit qualifying bids (no draft choices) so if they sign elsewhere, we really have just rented them. I’d really like some bonus money or competitive balance pick from Balt too.

      1. ‘competitive balance pick from Balt too’… Competitive Balance Draft picks can be traded. However, they can only be traded during the regular season, so it will have to wait until Apr 2019 for a the 2019 draft.

  79. If I thought MM would agree to a LTE, or that acquiring him increased the likelihood, and Britton comes here also, then I might be persuaded to part with Medina. Sixto is off limits, Medina and Gamboa hurt as will one of the Lakewood Pitchers, but I probably pull the trigger.

  80. I agree with most everyone, Sixto is off-limits on any Machado/Britton trade…..I think the Phillies should save Sixto for the Mike Trout trade. 🙂

  81. Eflin to 10-day DL with the blister, DLS to start tomorrow. Short return to LHV.

    1. To be clear, short return by DLS to LHV, in case anybody thought I was hallucinating Chris Short.

    2. TBH … even though DLS was optioned back to LHV, I don’t think he ever physically returned there.

      1. … so … the Orioles will have the chance to get looks at both DLS in Miami and Adonis Medina at the Futures Game in Washington, DC tomorrow.

  82. According to Jim Salisbury, the prospects of interest to Baltimore: Medina, Gamboa, de Los Santos, Kilome, Ortiz, Suarez. Speculation as to whether a big league player (Franco?) might be included.

    1. I hope they draw the line at Ortiz.
      As I posted above … I’d now give up Franco, DLS, Medina, Gamboa, and Will Stewart for Machado and Zach Britton.

    2. I would do Medina, Gamboa, Kilome, Ortiz yesterday for MM.

      Sixto needed to be kept. I still have concerns whether or not VV and/or Pivetta can stay in the rotation. As such I’m trying to keep in this order: DLS, Suarez, Romero, Irvin. I know that not all of them will make it, but i’m hoping at least 1, maybe 2 can make it.

      Haseley needed to be kept. Williams is performing ok, Haseley is the backup plan.

      The rest are so far away, nobody knows what will happen.

    3. If delos Santos looks good again in his next spot start, Klentak possibly can sell delos Santos high and offer him in place of Medina.

      1. There’s already talk that the Phillies are reluctant to include DLS in the trade because he’s the insurance policy against a starter’s injury.

      1. 8mark … Tim is saying the proposed MM trade includes Francisco Morales, JP Crawford, Hector Neris, and Darick Hall, plus other prospects. Not saying I agree with that. I’m just interpreting for you. For all we know, Tim got that info from the guy who pumps gas at Wawa.

  83. The Phillies FO (MacPhail/Klentak/Rice/Jordan) and the Os FO (Angelos/Dan D. and Brady Anderson) are very close and practically family.
    So maybe they have giving the Phillies the permission and opportunity to discuss with Lozano and Manny specifics on a LTC before a trade of four of the Phillies top eight prospects ( is consummated.. With the break now, time is ripe to do it.

    1. With Harper crapping the bed in his walk year and Machado dominating, I doubt Machado signs since HE will be the best FA avail.

    1. Riverhorse … that’s a good point. Klentak should be able to get some J2 money in the deal.

      Romus … I’m going to act like I didn’t even see your post above Riverhorse’s. The one where you (again) pine for MM to sign a LTX before a trade is consummated 🙂

  84. Another name floated around in trade talks is Ranger Saurez. I’m ok with losing Ortiz or Gamboa but I like Ranger a lot. It gets to a point where is the list of controllable assets worth it?

    Is 24-30 years old young prospect years worth 3 months with no guarantee of an extension? I don’t think it is when this team isn’t that close.

      1. I actually don’t think they are that close, they are much better
        Improved but the NL is weaker and it appears they are closer than they actually are.

        1. IMO, things have fallen faster for the Phils than expected, and in addition, the team has legitimate log jams just about everywhere in the organization. Personally, I’ve never seen this in the 30+ years of following this team. Where do you fit C,Moniak,Haslely, And others with Herrera and Hoskins? Move Hoskins back to first… ok, where do you fit Ortiz? If the NL gets the DH which is a hole other topic, fine, but the wheel goes round. Where do you fit cesar, jp, Kingery, Franco Santana with possible prospects and FA? Is the team going to be full blown built from drafts … and not use their payroll strength?
          My point is, I love the farm team, but at some point the FO needs to navigate this (almost) embarrassment of riches. They have to navigate a go for it now, with the 40 man roster crunch , and Middleton’s war chest.

          They can afford to swing for Machado and not lose the momentum their on. I look at it as an extra playoff chance in their “window”

          They have already lost Asher, oblezer (guy from Giles trade), Appel, Milner (trade sure but where do he fit in?) and you might as well add Lively, Eshelman, and Anderson to the list. Why? because they will be passed over by Kilome, Sixto, Irvin, Medina, saurez, Romeo etc …Gowdy could be a sleeper too

          The Phillies depth is real, and they just added another layer with Bohm, and others

          They need to pull the trigger and then put on the full court press to sign Machado long term. Ask him monthly to sign, wine and dine him. Let him know, no one will out bid Middleton… and that he is just delaying the inevitable.

          My only trade stipulation would be to find out if machado is hell bent on playing for the yanks in nyc or somewhere in LA …. basically the NBA debacles. If I can get a sense that isn’t happening, then I swing for the fences on Machado, vs leaving the bat on my shoulders

          The time is now, make your move FO!

    1. you’ve got Irvin, Romero and Suarez all as lefties in upper minors- so you can give up one of them certainly.
      if you are going to make the all in move for Machado, getting Britton along with him almost seems a necessity.

  85. I break it down this way:

    For Machado, the Orioles can have either/or –

    1 Medina/De Los Santos

    2 Kilome/Ranger

    3 JPC/Gamboa

    4 Ortiz/Haseley

    For Britton – Franco and Neris.

    Now, since Baltimore wants to maximize their return, just combine the 2 separate trades as one. 6 for 2.

    1. it Would be tough to lose both jpc and Franco in this scenario. You can lose one but not both. Pick who you’d rather lose – Franco or jpc. Then the trade gets a bit easier


      That’s a tough trade but … Franco is playing better than jpc despite the expectation levels. I guess it comes down to, who is the better mlb player… jpc or Kingery?

      1. the orioles don’t have many prospects but their top one, Ryan Mountcastle is a thirdbaseman playing at AA Bowie- there isnt a middle infielder of note in their top 30..(plus Franco 3 years from FA) .so would think a Crawford/Gamboa, etc would be more of interest for the O’s, plus of course any pitching.

        1. The Orioles have 1 guy in the top 100 (Mountcastle #80). At this point, they’ll take anybody who’s good. But they need to focus on pitching since the Red Sox/Yankees/Blue Jays are in their divsion.

  86. We get frustrated with Pivetta because he has the stuff but he’s not consistent, but recently, we faced 2 similar pitchers: Jose Urena and Kevin Gausman. Guys with big arms who should be better.

  87. Wow, DLS was cruising and the wheels fell off. A total meltdown inning by 3 pitchers.

  88. Aaron Altherr needs to go back to ASA. It is to the point where I just can’ Watch him bat.

  89. The Orioles pulled Manny out of the game and replaced him with Jace Peterson.

    Even the MASN announcers don’t know exactly what’s going o

      1. 1-for-1 with a HR, BB, and 2 runs scored, as well. That certainly raised my eyebrow.

      2. Is there any chance he can get to Miami in time for a game winning pinch hit HR today ? Please.

        1. Manny replaced in the 5th…….Beckham eventually went to shortstop
          Perhaps precautionary…..but!

          1. People reporting that it was precautionary because the infield was sloppy after a rain delay. I imagine they will wait until after the ASG to finalize a deal so he can represent the O’s still.

  90. For quite some time I a have been championing the cause of giving Meneses a shot at the bigs to see if maybe we have a diamond in the rough. All the nay sayers said no way you’d have to add him the 40 man first and who do you drop off the 40 man. Well ok. But please how do you rationalize doing that exact same thing with Trevor Plouffe???

  91. bringing adam morgan in with bases loaded is like waving a white flag, we give up. we don’t want to win. he failed again. how many more times does this have to happen before they sent him to lv where he belongs and get a legitimate loogy.

    brittain from the o’s would appear be an improvement.

  92. This weekend in Miami left me with 4 takeaways:

    We badly need a big bat.
    We badly need bullpen help.
    We badly need a better bench.
    We need a proven MLB starting pitcher.

  93. Well, neither Medina nor De Los Santos distinguished himself as an attractive trade piece in the Machado sweepstakes today. Let’s hope one outing didn’t spoil Baltimore’s interest in either.

  94. I would pull the trigger on a Whit Merrifield trade.

    There isn’t really a spot for him, but his versatility & high OBP fits well with this team.

    Offer up Lively, Altherr, & Roman Quinn – maybe add another lower level prospect.

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