Phuture Phillies 2016 Reader Top 30 #18

Adonis Medina was selected the Readers’ Poll 17th prospect.  He received 165 of 380 votes (43%).  He was a runaway victor over second-place finisher Jimmy Cordero.

The Phillies signed Medina to a minor league contract as an international free agent on May 29, 2014 at the age of 17.  

Medina pitched in the Dominican Summer League his first season.  In 26.1 innings, he posted a 1.37 ERA, 1.4 BB/9, and 7.5 K/9.  He was invited to Instructs and pitched in three intrasquad games.  His FB was upper 80s, T90.

Last season, Medina pitched in the GCL.  He had 8 starts and pitched 45.1 innings in 10 appearances.  His ERA rose to 2.94, his BB/9 was 2.4, and his K/9 was 6.9.  He got his FB into the low 90s, T94.  He also throws a change and curve.

 

Top 30 so far:

  1. Crawford
  2. N. Williams
  3. Thompson
  4. Appel
  5. “C” Randolph
  6. Quinn
  7. Alfaro
  8. Kilome
  9. Knapp
  10. Eflin
  11. Hoskins
  12. Kingery
  13. Pinto
  14. Cozens
  15. Tocci
  16. Goeddel
  17. Medina

The next group added to the poll will come from among the following e-mail requests, write-ins, and my discretion.  They are –

  1. Fanti, Martin, and Moore based on recurrent write-in votes
  2. Encarnacion, Tobias, Rios, Gonzalez, Pujols, Arano, and Leiter based on e-mail requests
  3. Paulino, Laird, DeNato, Joaquin, Rivero, Valentin,  Bossart, and L. Williams based on performance
  4. Pullin, Perkins, Falter, Forsythe, Luis, Mora, Munoz, Pickett, Tasin, Therrien, Lino, Hockenberry, and Stassi just because
  5. Pointer for a friend
  6. Walding to reward Sandy-Oh’s persistence.

The next 5 will likely come from among those in bold font.  Pujols will probably make the cut, but I personally don’t think he is among the top 5 of those I’m considering.  It’s also hard to justify back up catchers, right-handed first basemen, middle relievers, and low level closers.  In addition to a possible Pujols, I’m leaning towards 4 or 5 from among Tobias, Rios, Arano, Paulino, Laird, DeNato, Rivero, Valentin, L. Williams, Pullin, Mora, and maybe Stassi.  I like Paulino, Williams, Valentin, and DeNato.

Next up is your selection for #18.

53 thoughts on “Phuture Phillies 2016 Reader Top 30 #18

  1. I think its time for Thomas Eshelman to get some love.

    He was drafted a few spots ahead of Kingery, in the early second round, of last year’s draft.

    He only pitched 10 innings, but was promoted as a 21 year-old to A-ball.

    And his scouting reports pre-draft were pretty great, especially regarding his command/control.

    I know college pitchers are often devalued as prospects–their upside isn’t as wildly euphoric as a Kilome or Medina. And guys like Lively, Imhof and Leibrandt are barely receiving votes.

    That, coupled with that we just don’t know much about him–10IP in the Astros org last year–are the reason I feel he is being overlooked.

    If the Phils had drafted him instead of Kingery last year, we’d probably have voted him onto the list already, imo.

    1. I like eshelman but I would like to see him preform before voting for him now. I’d rather see Windle, Lively, Pivetta and Asher before him on the list but then again that’s just my opinion. I don’t think any of those pitchers are gonna turn into tor pitchers but I think they could all realistically carve a role out in the majors. I know the chances of all of them making it and sticking are low but I feel like any of them could be possible contributors.

      1. I think of that stable

        Windle
        Lively
        Pivetta
        Asher
        Eshelman

        at least a couple of those horses will place. It might not be Triple Crown talent, but there’s definitely some mudders there. I’m generally not overly optimistic about prospects but if the over/under on those five reaching MLB was 2.5, I’d bet the over.

        And if the over/under on these five below was also 2.5, I’d probably bet the over as well. Wouldn’t bet as much as I would on the previous five, but especially the top three I expect to reach MLB, if only for a cup of coffee.

        Richy
        Cordero
        Tirado
        Imhof
        Leibrandt

        There’s a lot of pitching talent in our system.

        1. I agree that there is a lot of pitching talent in the system the only thing that worries me is there really isn’t a legitimate “ace” prospect in our system.
          I think we have plenty of potential number 2 pitchers in our system IMO
          Appel
          Nola
          Velasquez
          Thompson
          Kilome
          Eickoff
          Out of all those 6 I think that Appel probably has the highest ceiling but arguably one of the lower floors.
          Nola is the safest of everyone and profiles as at worst a number 3.
          Velasquez is an injury risk but he has really good stuff. I have read that if he can’t handle the riggers of being a full time starter he should be a good back of the bullpen guy.
          I have read a lot of conflicting reports about him I have heard that he can be as good as a number 2 and I have also read that he could end up as a number 4 I think his slider is enough to be an out pitch but I’m no scout so who knows.
          Kilome is a major wild card at this point but he has really good stuff he just hasn’t seen a lot of great results thus far. He is also very far away so a lot can happen between now and whenever he arrives.
          I think that Eickoff can be a number 2 of he continues to improve his control and continues to have an out of this world curveball but he more than likely profiles as a 3-5 pitcher.
          Even if 2 of these guys come close to their ceiling that is a good start to a rotation. If 2 of the other guys come somewhere in between their ceiling and floor that’s a pretty good rotation and an ace would round it out very nicely. What do you think fritz?

          1. @ Chad – 2016 Draft 1.1 should address that. That’s also a noticeable hole in the deep pitching prospects the Phils have. I have to admit that the Mets 1-2-3 of Harvey-deGrom-Thor is something I want the Phils to have. Although having a legit “ace” or “stopper” gives the team a better change of winning a game, but they don’t guarantee winning the WS. Also, these “aces” a) only pitch 1 of 5 (20%); b) can have a bad day (and sometimes it can happen in a crucial playoff game; and c) can cost a lot (1 ace can easily eat 20% of the team salary post -arb).

            I prefer to have pitching staff that have an ability to perform in “clutch” situations — like Bumgarner — who is probably behind from aces like Kershaw, Greinke, Felix, Scherzer, Arrieta, Archer, etc when it comes in pure dominance and stuff.

            I do really like Cole and I can see the reason why to trade him. Although his stats and pure stuff is behind the so called “aces” in the league, i think Cole is “clutch”.

            I will not worry about the “lack of #1” for now, because in reality, the Phils can just buy #1 ace. I’m more concerned on the development of Nola, Eickhoff, Thompson, VV and Appell. It’s true that this group is more of #3s, but having a #3 pitcher pitching every game — the Phils can get some wins. And if this group can show that perform in tight situations (days when they don’t have their stuff) and show ability to pitch some dominant games (occasional CG, SHO, 1 hitter, etc), I think the group can will some playoff games too!

            To cut it short, i think blue print should be a solid 1-5 pitching staff with lights out bullpen and hitting group that can hit and play solid defense. Ace and Power bat are more cherry on top — which the Phils can buy anyday!

          2. We don’t need to have an ace-in-waiting on the farm now. There is this summers 1.1 draft pick. Beyond that, how did we get Bunning, Carlton, Schilling, Lee, and Halladay? All trade or FA. How many aces have we produced over the recent years? Robin Roberts for sure. Arguably Curt Simmons and Hamels. In addition to the 1.1, the Phillies are in possession of a boatload of Comcast money and almost infinite luxury cap space. You don’t even need an ace to win. Our 2008 team didn’t have an ace.

            1. You don’t need an ace to win but I will argue that you need someone to fulfill the role of ace to win a World Series (like Cole did in 08). I think that baseball salaries are going to continue to rise and there are plenty of other clubs that are getting just as big or bigger tv contracts so we aren’t going to be the only team with a surplus of money. I think the biggest thing is learning when to walk away from players and not over extend all the players that we have to ridiculous deals. I hope we do draft a player at 1.1 that can be a future ace I think it will help round everything out. It seems like Klentak is trying to build the team by balancing hitting pitching and defense so that in 2-4 years he can go out and get an ace or a big bat depending what we need. I think Bryce hits Free Agency and Philly tries to get him. I have my fingers crossed.

  2. With all the concern, on this site, about Tirado being available for the Rule 5 draft, he has a very good chance of not making our top 30. He will surely be back end of the list. “And don’t call me Shirley.”

    1. I have Tirado as my 21st prospect Bellman…

      Unless you can convince me otherwise Eshelman is another Cloyd, Buchannon, Kendrick type. Useful for sure but not worthy of top 20 status.

      1. Is it just me, or is one of those names not like the others?

        Kendrick, despite his limitations, has had a 9 year career – and over 200 starts – as a mostly effective (until last year) back of the rotation starter. If we could look at Eshelman and pencil in a Kendrick type career, he’d probably slot in at the back of the top 10, or maybe even a tad higher. Those kind of players have value.

        Of course we can’t pencil that in for that – it’s his upside, which he probably won’t reach – so your basic point remains correct, and I am just nit picking. 🙂

        1. Fairly stated Larry but consider much of Kendricks career was spent with a helluva line-up and great pitching ahead of him.

          Had he come at the same time as some of the others its quite possible he would not have enjoyed the longevity that he did.

          1. I think we are really overselling the virtues of Kyle Kendrick. He’s had a 9 year career and a total of 5.5 WAR – several years he was a serviceable 4/5 (typically a 5, with a year or two when he was a 4), but on the whole he’s been just a touch above a replacement level AAA pitcher. For a team that has some money like the Phillies, a guy like Kendrick is an afterthought. My view of it is if the team can get a guy off the rack on the free agent market for a one year deal at a reasonable price that is as good or better than the player being discussed, then the player being discussed isn’t very good. But that’s what we had in Kyle Kendrick. He was no better or worse than Aaron Harang, Roberto Hernandez or, for this year, Charlie Morton. He’s just another guy. And, yes, it’s good to have guys like this in the system because then you pay something like major league minimum for them and not $5-7 million and can trade and replace them when they get too expensive. So there’s a value in this type of player for a limited period of time, but they’re really not that important in the scheme of things.

            1. I agree with you, but we are at #18 on the list. If the #18 guy is a 9 year Major leaguer, that is a success, no matter what. I guarantee Kyle Kendrick and Charlie Morton have had better careers than at least 10 of the guys we’ve already voted on to the list. That being said, I agree, prospect lists are more about having the potential of being an impact player at your position or role.

            2. The other flaw in some of these comps to Manor League players I’ve seen over and over, is I believe, some of us compare the Minor leager’s stats to a comparable major leaguer’s MLB stats. If you’re going to comp, you should find a comparable MLB player and compare their Minor league stats and tools. Guys like Pinto and Eflin are the same as Kyle Kendrick when he was a minor leaguer. Yet some of us are giddy about them being potential #3 starters, when they have shown no more than what Kendrick or Charlie Morton, and less than guys like Joe Blanton did as Minor leaguers at the same stage. I don’t get the logic that these guys are better than them, when they are doing the same things they did at the same stages of development.

            3. Yes, I don’t disagree with you about a #18 ranking and getting a 4/5 starter from such a player. My point is that we really shouldn’t be waxing poetic about Kyle Kendrick and what a fine he player he was. He was just okay and barely that – another guy to fill out a staff and give a team innings.

            4. “My view of it is if the team can get a guy off the rack on the free agent market for a one year deal at a reasonable price that is as good or better than the player being discussed, then the player being discussed isn’t very good.”

              This is the flaw in your argument. You can’t just get an off-the-rack player on a reasonable contract to plug-in and pitch like KK.

              Happ just signed a 3-year, 20+ million deal.

              And Jerome Williams was terrible last year.

              A decent 4/5 pitcher will cost money, because they are valuable.

              And off-the-rack types tend to perform worse than a decent 4/5 option.

      2. Cloud was never the same level pitcher as Kendrick. If Eshelman achieves a career the level of Kendrick, it would be a success. But predicting success from a soft tossed like Eshleman is like finding needles in a haystack.

        1. OK so you convinced me that my choice of wording that post was bad. I hope Eshelman is better than KK’s profile.

          I should have simply said I’m reluctant with putting him in the top 20 at this point based on his profile.

    2. I have Tirado #17 and I ranked him higher since I still consider him as SP. I think Tirado still going to make the list in the next 4-5 slots with the other SP prospects like Pivetta, Eschelman, Cordero, etc.

    1. DMAR…that is a realistic assumption to make. The Phillies will be searching for a closer and he probably will get an audition at some point. Along with Edubray. Ramos and the Rule 5 guy Dan Stumpf I would think.

      1. Rays just gave up Jake McGee for Cory Dickerson which i don’t get but my point is if you can build depth at back end BP guys you can acquire other assets with them.

        1. DMAR…..understand.
          McGee, when healthy, is a guy that sits at 96, and lefthanded and has been doing it for a few years, he would command a good return. Dickerson, a LF with some pop and good bat is perhaps what the Rays need from one of their corner positions.
          But what do the Rays have coming to replace McGee? Maybe they can afford to part with McGee because they have AL saves leader Brad Boxberger at the back end along with the emergence of Xavier Cedeno, Alex Colome, Enny Romero and Steve Geltz, all of whom can pitch late in the game.
          .

  3. I agree with the comments that if Eshelman has a Kendrick like career, that is a success, but larrym, I think that even if we were guaranteed that, our Top 10 profiles higher than a KK, #5 SP ceiling.

  4. Easily Canelo for me: he was one of the best hitters in the SAL last year as a 20 year old SS before his promotion. Could be an everyday player depending on his bat while his glove gives him a good floor.

    1. We’re on the same page here, Zus. He’s got a real chance to be a big league regular at short, which means if he hits this year he’s a valuable trade chip, or if they aren’t happy with their other options, he becomes the club’s second baseman of the future.

  5. Pivetta before Pujols and then Eshelman for me. The relievers (Windle and Cordero) come after that. I’m hoping that Ortiz shows us all that we had him rated too low. I have him at 32 but I sure hope that I’m way wrong.

  6. I’d go Pivetta, Canelo or Grullon here, but I guess we’re at the Scott Mathieson stage of this poll. A reporter wrote ‘this guy, who throws 100, could be the future closer’ so this guy with one pitch is better than about 3 other possible starters who have 2-3 pitches.

    1. Thanks. Was ready to post this when I saw your post. I don’t think this is indicative of Biddle’s future with the Phillies, just that he was the least likely to be picked up by another organization since he would take up a 40-man spot on the receiving org’ 40-man while on rehab. He was surely going to be moved to the Phillies’ 60-day DL by the end of spring training so that they could free up their own 40-man slot. This move was probably inevitable.

  7. Grullon here maybe the best defensive catcher we have. Still has elite arm his bat showed some life. Then Pivetta who has nice stuff but lost his control and was hit hard in AA not a lot of ings though. I still have Sweeney , Paulino on my list .

      1. I actually believe that Moore will be our major league back up catcher in 2017…. We’ll see if I’m right…. If both of our star catcher prospects reach their peaks, I think one will be traded for other needs.

      2. Phillies say Guillon is the best defensive catcher in the system. Phillies like good defensive catchers and have a handful of them. Add Bossart to your list.

  8. Cordero here.

    Realize it’s not fashionable to rate hard-throwing relievers this highly, but look at what happened with GIles–he turned into our #4 prospect and a promising young pitcher already in the majors, plus two other guys who might somehow be useful. That’s not to say he’s likely to be as successful as Giles, but he looks like a major league bullpen weapon.

    Others considered here: Canelo (next up for me), Pivetta, Sweeney, Grullon.

      1. In fairness, Cordero has a slider that flashes plus. If it continues to develop, he has that sort of upside. I have Cordero 22 on my list, but see Canelo and Grullon as two guys who are on a different tier from everyone remaining.

        1. It’s strange at this point in the list, and I think some guys above this point have been ranked quite a bit higher than they should be, but we’ve got 4-5 guys left who have the potential to be stars. I certainly put Cordero, Canelo, and Grullon in that category. I think Ortiz has to be included there, although he has a floor of basically zero, as in never reaches AA. Beyond those 4, I think the highest ceilings are Tirado and Pivetta.

  9. I can’t complain with Cordero being picked but I think Pivetta might have better stuff. if he doesn’t work out as a starter he could be a bullpen guy too. You have to consider that the starters with “good stuff” have a chance at being just as good or better than Cordero in the bullpen. not saying they will but it’s something to give some thought. again not complaining with Cordero being picked here since I like him and consider him a near MLB ready bullpen piece

  10. Will be interesting to see how many Phillies end up in MLB network top 100. The top nine on our list are worthy of consideration. Phillies could end up with possibly 5 or 6 is my guess. Alfaro and Quinn could have injuries play against them and Kilome being rather unknown and underrated not getting enough consideration.

    1. According to MLB Pipeline, the Phillies have seven (7) players in the top 100. The most of any club.

        1. Yeah, MLB.com doesn’t like Thompson or Williams as much as BA and BP does. Williams won’t make the ESPN top 50 either. Law doesn’t like him as a prospect.

  11. Eshelman had 18 walks in 370 college innings. A rotation with Nola and Eshelman might set records.

    Remember also that the phils get the top draft pick next year, I’d hope they go after yet another pitcher then intermkngled with bats, unless there is a barry bonds type in the mix. Then, barring a miracle in 2016 they should draft high in 2017 again before starting to climb the ladder.

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