Open Discussion: Week of August 10th

Here’s an open discussion thread so the minor league posts don’t get cluttered with Phillies’ talk and other topics.

  • The Phillies have been overtaken by the Marlins for the first pick in the draft.  The Phillies trail by one game and aren’t playing like the worst team in the league anymore.  There are several more teams who could overtake them and drive them still further down to a lower draft pick.
  • Chase Utley returned this weekend.  Mackanin was quoted as saying that Utley would play maybe four games a week.  He started Friday and Saturday, pinch hit Sunday, and is scheduled to be in the starting line up Monday.  Some things never change.
  • I haven’t seen anything on any Phillies passing through revocable waivers, but the waiver wire is one of the most difficult things to track.  I’m sure the Phillies have run a few players through.  It is likely that Chase Utley was one.  He seems to be of the utmost interest to contending teams as indicated by stories on MLB Trade Rumors and by Jim Salisbury.  The Salisbury story is also embedded in the Trade Rumors report.

318 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of August 10th

  1. Chase and the Giants.
    Panik is having an overall decent season, assume they want Chase for veteran experience down the stretch into the playoffs.
    Their farm system does not have many attractive players IMO.
    The Cubs, Angels and Yankees seem to have better offerings.

    1. I think expecting Utley to bring back something attractive at this point might be a bit of a stretch.

      1. I can see Utley bringing back a young, or two, pitching prospects from A level, from an organization.

        1. no way a rental for a month that’s going to sit on your bench . Panik due back in a wk the Giants have until Aug 31 . The Angels and the yanks are better suited, if he goes to NY he doesn’t have to move. He wants to play not sit on a bench I have no idea why the Cubs want him . FYI california is having its worst drought and fire season including 1 near SF . Some team that wanted to screw SF or Cubs could have picked him.if you get a player to be named later or Cash for Chase you would be lucky. The Angels and SF do not have deep farms.

        2. I’d be happy if the Phillies were able to get future considerations that turned out to be international slot money for Utley. This would make sense for the Yankees and Cubs.

  2. Romus I don’t believe you get much for chase, I Would make the trade with the giants, cause he lives there. and most likely would approve the trade. I cant see them giving him a contract for next year, I love the guy but he isn’t part of the rebuild.

    1. At one time last season I liked Crick….but his stock has fallen along with his peripherals. Osich and Okert are reliever types, Black and Blach are older types, but Mejia is an interesting pitcher.
      Just seems they have a farm system similar to the Phillies of 2013.
      If Cashman and Utley agree to a deal….I would try to get some of the Yankee arms.
      Angels have some guys of intererst in their teen rankings.
      You will not get a Tyler Beede or Sean Newcombe/Joe gatto type playe.
      Cubs….I would not deal with them or the Sox…..their GMs are schooled in anal analytics, and will not budge on most grade A prospects….let them keep them and see where they go..

    2. +1

      I am pleased to see GCL’s A. Gamboa making more contact. He has cut down his K rate a lot in the lastcouple of weeks. In last 10 games, he’s 10-41 .244 with only 7K’s. Prior to that he was 16-79 .202 with 20K’s, Will be 18 next month.

      I am a little concerned that Randolph is struggling. He is 6-30 in last 10 games with 7K’s and only 1 rbi. I would like to see him finish the season on a hot streak.

      Quietly on the MLB team, the middle relief group of Garcia, Gomez, Araujo and to a lesser degree Neris have done a good job. Combined ERA is a decent under 3.00.

    3. Neither is Cesar Herandez part of the rebuild it’s Valentin, Kingery, Tobias all are a least a yr away. The worst case is Chase getting traded then Hernandez getting hurt. Then a different chase will here. Nobody fully understands that when Macphail does takeover tbere ‘s going be a new GM and coach . Other then Franco and Nola maybe Giles are safe the other players maybe gone. Hernandez is doing it in the MLB all the other names are prospects but highly rated ones. Plus Hernandez has toped out his is the best he can do. No power no golden arm or glove . He reminds me of a poor man’s Revere. I see nothing bad in a healthy Chase playing here until the Crawford, s, Kingery , arrive.

        1. Nope he’s a free agent end of the yr. When Herrera wins the CF out of spring training and Hernandez is benched for Chase D ‘ Arnaud and Macphail buys 2 solid starting pitchers and starting and 1 OF alot off pets in general will be surprised.

          1. Chase D’ Arnaud is org filler. The only way he plays for the big club is if every other option is hurt.

      1. A year away? What are you even talking about. Kingery is in Low-A. Tobias is @ SS. That’s 3+ years for Tobias and just under that for Kingery – if everything goes well.

        And the Revere comparison is lazy, bordering on silly.

        1. Not really. Caesar is well above his career norms in walk rate. Unless you’re trying to say that this is his new norm. He’s also stealing bases at a higher rate than normal. Offensively they’re very similar players and the numbers bear that out. Defensively they are both average. Just because they play different positions doesn’t make the comparison lazy.

  3. rocco……how would you grade Ruben if you could subtract two bad contracts—–..Paps and Howard, two bad trades- Lee to Seattle and Pence to the Giants…..and now a revamped farm system?

    1. I think the most questionable part of the Paps contract was signing too quickly and losing the draft pick. You can make the argument the $ amount was earned by Paps. In hindsight I’d rather have the contract and outcome from Paps then the rumored deal with Ryan Madsen.

      1. I just think Ruben or whoever authorized those contract and the subsequent AAVs…could have offered 15 to 20% less and the players would have still signed….and moving them at the end of their contracts would have been easier. Paps did well for what was expected.

        1. I think he paid enough that Papelbon would have waited a week and not signed elsewhere and not required the option.

    2. Problem is romus in that business. bad contracts get your fired. I know a lot of us and people in the media feel that ruben had little say, it was Montgomery and giles who wanted to keep Howard, Rollins and ultey. That in itself would get ruben fired if true. I don’t want a guy who is a yes man. and if Ruben signed these guys, just cause his boss told him to, then he isn’t the right guy for the job. imo a good gm says no its a bad move and either gets his way or leaves,

      1. agree rocco…..he still has the responsibility for those bad contracts, and the trades, but we will know In another 6/8 weeks whether he is let go or remains somewhere in the organization.

      2. That is funny. You’re blaming Ruben for perhaps listening to his boss and being a yes man instead of walking away and leaving his job? How many of us have argued with their boss about decisions and still had to do what the boss wanted? I would bet a lot of us. Why? Because the job keeps food on the table. To think that Amaro has free reign and can do whatever he wants is crazy. If you have a boss, you pretty much obey your boss, end of story.

        1. This. Especially when it is early in his first GM tenure. If Gillick or Dobrowski tell there boss no and walk away, they could have another job in 5 minutes. If Amaro did that he may never work as a GM again.

        2. The guru .so you think this is like a regular job. lmao. What you do in this business reflects more on you then a lot of other jobs. only 32 jobs, and if your a yes man for a bad team. you better save that contract money, cause no one is hiring you that has a dream of winning. I think the big thing your missing is this. Montgomery doesn’t know how to manage a budject when it comes to baseball. doesn’t know if talent is declining. In most business setting like you say. the boss knows the business and if he is going to fail its his money and his way. I have seen it many times.

          1. Even if the boss doesn’t know what he’s doing or doesn’t care about the product (like Loria in Miami), you still have to obey your boss. Because if you get fired for not listening to your boss, you think other teams want you too?

            1. I hate that owner loria the most. He is raping the league and gets away with it spends no money. and makes a ton as small market team. Gets paid to be bad from all the other owners he is a disgrace.

            2. I can’t believe MLB let Loria destroy the Marlins after he destroyed the Expos. That whole Selig, Henry, Loria thing was some shady dealing.

          2. There are only 32 jobs, and if you get a reputation as being combatitve with ownership, I’m sure the other 31 will be knocking down your door with a contract offer.

            Side note: Let’s not use the verb “raping” to describe a person’s business practices. This isn’t

            1. This is not a black and white issue – the only choices are not to a) roll over and do exactly as your boss says, or b) get in his face and be combative and refuse to take his orders. A good leader will build a relationship of trust with his boss and if his boss has an idea or issues a directive he doesn’t agree with, the leader should have the influencing skills to get his way or work through a logical compromise. There is a huge grey area and ultimately the results are Ruben’s regardless of what happened behind the scenes.

      3. Other than taking a walk when asked to do something illegal or unethical, all employees are ‘yes men’ by your definition. An employee may state an opposing point of view, but in the end, choice of strategy belongs to those at the very top of the organization. If the owners want to bring back the 2008 stars and set as their highest priority letting the fans see that these guys were rewarded and kept in town as long as possible, then it is the GMs job to do so as efficiently as possible. When the thinking/strategy of the higher ups is known, both from past practice with Daulton and Dykstra, and from their public utterances, then the GM will be hard pressed to drive the toughest bargain. It is not the GM’s job to convince the owner to change his strategy or resign. The Cubs weren’t going to trade Ernie Banks, no matter how much that might have helped the team in the future. The Baltimore GM wasn’t going to decide that Cal Ripken needed a rest and neither was the manager to have that authority. You cannot judge a GM by a bad strategic decision from above. You can judge him on how well he executes his job, given the strategy and constraints handed to him.

  4. Romus I was looking at the Mets and nationals. The Phillies next year have a lot of money coming off the books. But the nationals really have a ton of money to spend next year, and they are already good. They will lose bad players like fister. don’t have to sign harper yet. I Mention this cause some one told me they are in on price , will sign him and a outfielder like or Upton Yoenis Cespedes type. they are set to be good for long time. So we really have to build this thing right. I hope mcphail is the right guy.

    1. If they are signing Price…then the Nats will let Zimmermann walk as expected,and Fister, and also Strasberg the year after. Hoping that Ross, GioGonza and Giolito, along with Price form their staff.
      As great a player as Cespedes is suppose to be….why does he keep getting traded!….think about that.
      Upton does K quite a bit, and the last two years it is around 25% but he does have the ISO for what they need. Though in 2016, it will have been five years since his break-out season of 2011..since then he has been a 3win player for the most part.

      1. Keep in mind Cespedes’ contract stipulation…he has to be released by his current team at the end of his contract, which means two things:

        1. He can’t be given a qualifying offer, therefore no draft pick compensation
        2. The team he finishes his contract with is unlikely to be able to resign him because a player can not be resigned by the team he is released from until the following season is underway

        The A’s traded him for Lester in a sort of sideways upgrade for the post season.
        The Red Sox had an overstuffed outfield and needed pitching.
        The Tigers wanted to get value out of him. Since he wasn’t attached to a QO, Detroit would have been left empty-handed.

        1. I don’t think #2 is fully right. You are right in that he will be a free agent, but I don’t think his contract basically precludes the mets from signing him until next year.

  5. Herrera’s peripherals from June 1st have a crossed the board improved, except for one …BB rate…it has got worst….four in this time, with two HBP
    However, his Krate has trickled down…..ISO/OPS have trended up with 5 HRs, one triple and 11 doubles in approx. 160 PAs…and BA/OBP obviously.
    I have to assume he will not be a good BB guy.

    1. I look at Herrera, Hernandez and Galvis and think that these are guys for whom it will be difficult to make a long-term decision (even with Galvis, because when Crawford comes up, they can slide Galvis to second where he will be a ridiculously good second baseman). They are all tweeners at some level. They are probably good enough to become starters, but can they be first division regulars? Who knows? Of the group, given his age and his explosive abilities, I would conclude that Herrera has the biggest upside, but that’s just a guess.

      1. Catch so you think as a all around player galvis is better than herdanez? that to me is a tough one. Galvis is a unbelievable fielder. but Cesar is a really good fielder, and nice obp guy right now. but must see more.

        1. Cesar is not a good fielder in my opinion. Average to below average at second base. And zero pop to speak of when swinging the bat. But like you said, a great OBP guy.

          Galvis will be a great fielder no matter where you put him, but will likely always be a below avg OBP guy. But he has more pop than Hernandez, with potential for a little more I think.

          Bottomline, I don’t think either guy is a starting player on playoff type team. They both could be decent bench players, but an imperfect one at that, since Hernandez has no pop and cannot play the left side of the infield effectively. Galvis will be much more valuable in that role, since he can play all over the place defensively (at a really high level) and has a decent bat (not Hernandez level, but OK).

          Herrera on the other hand has a chance to be a good starting player I believe. He’s been pretty impressive for someone that never played above AA before this season. His approach can use work, but he’s got some pop (and potential for more as he becomes more comfortable handling major pitching) and he can run and is great athlete. I think Victorino is a pretty good comp for him, as far as athletic ability and even the way I think Hererra will still be getting picked off the bases and having base-running lapses as a 7 year veteran like Victorino…

          1. Herrera’s fun to watch, but his BB/K (roughly 3/23) rate terrifies me. Victorino, by comparison, struck out half as much and probably walked three times as much. Odie’s on a nice little run, but his splits tell me he’s apt to swing at just about anything. Once big league pitchers get a book on him, I have a feeling he turns into a pumpkin.

            On the plus side, he’s a lot more fun to watch than Wendell Magee Jr. (as Freddy and Cesar are more than Desi Relaford and Marlon Anderson). That is to say, I doubt any of them are long-term regulars, but they will make this rebuild far less painful than the last.

            1. I think Herrera will be in AAA next season to work out his hitting issues and then we will see him back at some point.

              He needs to play everyday to work out the hitting issues. Where he ends up is anyones guess.

            2. Isnt Hererra playing every day right now to work out his hitting issues haha? Why send him down next year to face inferior competition when he is already holding his own in the majors? Phillies are not competing for a playoff spot next year and their OF stinks right now so why would Herrera be sent to AAA? Doesn’t really make sense to me…

          2. Herrera is just breaking the surface with that hit talent and overall quickness . Galvis plus Glove will also give him the advantage . Hernandez is at the top of his talent he doesn’t have Herrera quickness or Galvis glove. Last night Cashner 95 mph fb inside Hernandez couldn’t get around on it. He had 2 hits but later in the game but stuck out 3 times. I don’t think he can beat out Valentin, Kingery or Tobias. That why I like Ultey if he is healthy you need one or two vets to help the kids . I’d rather have Ultey then Howard at first. Howard has a chance to be moved his contract is almost done.


        2. I don’t know who is better. Galvis is a much better fielder and Hernandez is a better offensive player, although Galvis has this sort of weird untapped power. What impresses me about Cesar is that I think this guy works incessantly at his game and therefore improves all aspects of his game. Is he tapped out? We don’t know. If you forced me to pick the guy who will be better in the long term I’d pick Galvis because guys who play short like he does and have some hitting skills are stil difficult to find. I also have no idea what to make of Herrera, except he is fun to watch and has surprising power. He’s a hell of a Rule 5 pick, that’s for sure.

  6. Remember guys that are not on the 40 man roster do not have to clear waivers during August trades. There are some intriguing prospects that the Phillies could get for Utley.

  7. Don’t get the Utley hate. Guy had a terrible first half for a variety of reasons, but its still an incredibly small sample. Is he in decline? Sure, but the fact that he’s playing four or five games and resting some young guys is not a big deal as long as they continue to be creative with lineups allowing him to essentially spell Cesar, Galvis, Franco, and Howard.

    On a side note, now that his option won’t vest, I’d love to see us pick up the club option if we can’t move him now, we may be able to in the future. If not, I get to continue to watch Utley

    1. Why would you pick up the club option? He’s not worth $12.5 million a year, they aren’t contending and he blocks other players. I’m sorry, but that makes no sense to me.

          1. Why do they have to move on? Who is he blocking? Hernandez is the only second base prospect they have who would be major league ready in 2016, and I don’t think he’s going to be anything more than a utility guy for the next good Phillies team. He has no power and doesn’t field well. He has to rely on a .350 BABIP to run up an average (!) wRC+. Defense and speed don’t peak, they only decline, and he has no power to help him age well. He could be an average player for a few years if (and I think that its unlikely) he keeps up a BABIP that is well above league aveage. And you could still keep Utley and develop Hernandez. Utley could play some first, they can try moving Hernandez around the diamond, and Utley will be old and probably hurt so he won’t play that much anyway.
            On the other hand with Utley, he hasn’t showed that he’s unplayable yet. Last season he put 4.5 fWAR (admittedly with exteme fading as the year went on). I like to think that Utley’s 2015 is made of 3 parts. 1- he was really bad the first 5 weeks of the year because of a insanely and extremely unsustainable bad BABIP (it was below .100 at times!) 2- he was great for 3ish weeks (somewhat BABIP fueled) 3- he was kind of bad for a little bit and then got injured. I don’t know if there is a 4.5 WAR season left in him, but I don’t know how people can be so confident that there is not a couple of league average seasons left if he gets a lot of time of (and time at first base).
            Another thing to look at is what is the return that you are going to get for Utley? A lottery ticket and salary relief. A lottery ticket is nice, but by definition the chances that it helps the Phillies out in a significant way are slim. The money is also nice, but look at all of the contracts that are coming off the books after this year and the next. The Phillies could spare 12 million for Utley, especially if he turns out to be a league average player, then he would be worth that money.
            Finally, even if the Phillies were going to pay Utley 25 million, I would still be okay with that. Utley is my favorite baseball player and the pain of seeing him play for another team is not worth the minimal gains they would get by trading him. 12 million and a lottery ticket do not move the needle for the Phillies. Some development time for Hernandez might move it a little, if you are a huge Hernandez fan (which I’m not), and even then it would not move it a lot. With all of this in mind, wouldn’t you want Utley to solidify his HOF case and be the best player since Mike Schmidt to spend his whole career with the Phillies ?

            1. Utley is a marginal replacement player at this stage of his career.

              You are better off playing guys like Cesar and Galvis than keeping Utley around. He is not taking a minimum contract to sit the bench.

            2. You said it yourself: “Utley will be old and probably hurt so he won’t play that much anyway.”

            3. If Utley doesn’t want to stay and switch off between first and second with plenty of time off, then let him leave and play that role for a contender. My whole argument was only if he wants to stay then you should let him. Also how do you know that he is only a marginal replacement player, if other teams saw him as that, then why would they wan to trade for him. He certainly could be that bad, but the last he was healthy with a sustainable BABIP and enough time off, he was much better than that

            4. You are right that Galvis and Hernandez will likely be better, but probably not much better, and they won’t get much back for Utley, and they can afford to give him the money, and the Phillies won’t be good anyway, and there’s a chance that he might still be good, so why not keep the guy (if he wants to stay) who was the best player the Phillies have had since Mike Schmidt, who also loves the city and would be a great clubhouse leader for the new wave of prospects.

            5. I agree with you that the odds of him being good are slim. That being said, I’m not saying that you should keep him because he will help the team, but rather that trading him doesn’t help the team much either, and I’d rather let the guy who might be the second best position player in the history of the Phillies finish out his career in Philadelphia. I don’t really understand where you are coming from. Do you think that trading Utley helps out the team? If so please explain how that would happen.

            6. The Score is reporting that Utley was placed on revocable waivers on Saturday.

              Trading Utley helps because it gives guys like Galvis and Cesar more playing time which they need at this point in their development.

            7. cm…agree with most of your points on Utley……but IMO the return will be more then a ‘lottery ticket’. With four teams in the bidding, that shrewd and cunning Phillies GM will pluck a pretty decent prospect from one of those other unsuspecting naiveté GMs!

            8. Ok I guess we will agree to disagree, you quite obviously think much more of Galvis and Hernandez than I do. And Romus, if they get back a real prospect it’s a different story (although I will still be sad to see him go), but I don’t think they will get back much for him, because I think most teams will see him the way david does, a 36 year old who is most likely a replacement player

            9. cm….maybe Case wants to finish out with a contender…and maybe his off-season hometown Giants may be where he would like to finish it out with. I like to see himstay at a discounted price, but if you can get a decent prospect from one of the bidding contenders…I’d do it.

            10. Cm: even if all they got back is a lottery ticket u trade Utley. U certainly don’t keep him because u are a fan and because he used to be great. A lottery ticket and saving $12 million is a lot better than paying $12 million for Utley to take time away from galvis or Hernandez just because he is Chase Utley. And I love the “well they can afford it” argument. Just because u can afford something doesn’t mean u should.

    2. Utley is great, but his time has past. And he’s not worth his club option at this point, especially considering his injury history. Cesar has been playing great, we need to see if he can improve in 2016.

      1. Even with all of his injuries Utley has never put up a less a than 3 fWAR season before this one. I get that he’s old, but you’re being very definite that he is not going to be worth 10 million.

          1. Bingo! Exercising the option would be foolishness in the extreme. If they decline the option and he wants to come back as an older statements on a low risk contract, that might be fine. Otherwise, I love him, but he needs to move on.

            1. You guys have still not explained how signing Utley is such a bad idea. Even if he’s terrible next year and they are throwing 10 million in the trash, why is that such a bad thing? They have tons of money that’s available to spend on FA even without the 10 mil

          2. Because they have the money, he has an outside chance of being good, there are no other good uses for the money and he’s CHASE UTLEY

            1. I shouldn’t say no other good uses for the money but they have plenty of money spend and not enough players that they would want to get. Its similar to the Hamels surplus value arguments, Saving $/WAR doesn’t help you if you can’t/ won’t use that money to get other players

            2. I’m not saying all-star I’m saying league average, which is almost for sure better than what the Phillies could get out of Hernandez

            3. I don’t think you understand the purpose of this rebuild.

              The purpose of this rebuild is to clear salary and get the young players up so that you have an idea of who to target in free agency to push you back into the playoffs.

              Paying someone $10 million to sit on the bench is not a good way to go about the rebuild. It is literally throwing money away.

            4. Cliff Lee has an outside chance of returning to form next season … why not pick up his $27 million option?

            5. Stop talking about what “rebuilds” are and look at the Phillies situation. The Phillies don’t have any good young players who they can bring up to play second base (except Hernandez), and they have plenty of money for FA even with the 10 million they would spend on Utley. To me the only way the Phillies are hurting themselves by keeping Utley is if you thing Hernandez will be a 2-3 win player, which I personally don’t think will happen

            6. Honcho- If you are going to straw-man me then why bother posting, just tune me out, 10 million is very different than 27 million, Utley has a much better chance of being playable, and the alternatives for Lee are much better than the alternatives for Utley. Also stop pretending that signing Utley will set the Phillies years back, worst case scenario is that he costs the Phillies a few wins, and I would take that in order to have Utley finish out his career on the Phillies

            7. Dude, turn the page. Move on.

              At this point he’s just taking playing time away from guys who you want to find out if they can play. Enough with the Utley nonsense already.

            8. Rick that is what the argument is about. David and Honcho think it’s a good idea to give Hernandez and Galvis time because they might develop into something. I honestly don’t think that Galvis and Hernandez turn into anything (I hope I’m wrong), so I don’t think that there is anyone that he is taking time from that I want to see play so that I can see if they turn into anyting

            9. Hence you completely miss the point of finding out whether they can play. Just saying “I don’t think they can” and handing over said playing time to Utley so counter productive it borders on lunacy. Its over, move on.

            10. I would agree with you if they were coming out of the minors, but Hernandez has ~575 PAs in the majors and Galvis has ~950. That’s not enough to write them off by all means, but they both were not highly touted prospects in the minors, and they have both showed that they have limited upside due to flaws in their games. I definitely want to see both of them more, but I’m not down on them because I’m simply just saying “I don’t think they can play”. I’m down on them because they have given me reasons to doubt their upside. Now that being said I think they should get the majority of time at second base, however that doesn’t mean the Phillies can’t bring Utley back to play on the bench and take a little more of Heranandez’ playing time than a normal backup second baseman would

            11. Yes Dave rebuilding Hernandez will be done once Crawford , Valentin or Kingery get hear . Which should be by late next we can a healthy Ultey a HOF who puts people in the seats they watch the Phillies because of him. Hernandez who well might be forgotten by next yr. here are some ball player’s that were 37 and had great yrs. Since you think players that are 37 are over the hill david.

            1. Honestly this idea is so utterly ridiculous I thought you were trolling until I saw you actually tried to make an argument on behalf of keeping him.

            2. Why am I only “trying” to make an argument. Obviously Utley could be really bad and Galvis or Hernandez really good, but that wouldn’t make my argument ridiculous, just wrong. Either way the Phillies will have a ton of money and likely a bad team next year

            3. Actually that would. You don’t pay a broken down 37 year old player than money when you’re rebuilding and trying to evaluate other players. It’s literally not even to the point where its debatable its such a poor idea.

            4. There is no hard and fast rules about rebuilding. It does not make sense to say that you should not be doing something because rebuilding teams shouldn’t do that. You have to look at the Phillies situation specifically. The reasons not to bring back Utley are for the money or because he is blocking playing time. Because the Phillies have plenty of money, they can afford to give the money to Utley, (they couldn’t/ wouldn’t use it on something better). Utley is only blocking the playing time of Galvis and Hernandez. I don’t think that this is a big problem as long as they get plenty of PAs, because they have already showed in the majors that they lack upside. The only argument is whether you think that Galvis or Hernandez have starter upside, and therefore that would justify getting all of the playing time, which would mean not bringing back Utley. I can respect your opinion if you think this way, but I personally don’t agree (this is more courteous than calling the other person’s opinions lunacy) .

            5. I tend to agree with cm. Utley has value beyond his stats. He is an iconic player who has been amongst the best in his generation. His work ethic and the way he plays is exemplary, As the rebuild continues, he has value as an example for those coming through the organization. Whether $10 M is the right number who knows, but it also shows prospective FAs that the Phillies are a class organization.

              You know what you have in Freddy and Cesar. You might see marginal development, but neither is likely to be an all-star. Chase would be blocking no one.

            6. Yes the Phillies wont be good. And if there is even a 1% chance that Hernandez is the future 2nd baseman Utley shouldn’t play at all. The few of u need to let this go. Stop with the sentimental thoughts. Rebuilding teams don’t pay marginal at best players $10 million because of loyalty. That is asinine.

        1. Bringing back Utley would be more of the nostalgia express that Monty foisted on us, delaying the rebuild by at least a year and realistically two. For all the fans who really wanted to see Chase, Ryan, Chooch, and Cole there were an awful lot of empty seats at CBP the past two seasons. So, the nostalgia express didn’t produce good baseball and it also failed as a marketing ploy. Time to get off that train.

          Last year, we kept hearing from posters that nobody had proven they were better than Rollins/Utley/Howard/Ruiz. Well, Galvis 2015 has beaten Rollins 2015, and Hernandez 2015 has beaten Utley 2015. I think had he been given the chance, Ruf 2015 would overall have beaten Howard 2015 — not by a lot, but a little better factoring in running and fielding. Rupp is doing better than expected.

          Now I keep reading that we should want to have Ruiz mentor the young pitchers and act as an extra coach. We can afford the best coaches in baseball. If Rupp is going to be doing a lot of the catching in 2017, when we may next contend, then I’d rather have the young pitchers learning to work with Rupp than learning to work with Chooch, who will be gone.

          Utley’s best years will always be his years in Philly. We don’t need to own 100% of his soul by being able to say he never played for another team. Robin Roberts played a lot more for other teams than Utley will and he will forever be a Phillie. Carlton didn’t start or end his career in Philly, but he will always be a Phillie. If Rollins spends a couple more years in LA, will that make him any less a Phillies’ great?

          1. Al I have to ask you this, you Said Ultey will delay the rebuild by at least 2 yrs. 1 thing Galvis and Hernandez are in there 3rd yr of Development. 2 Franco and Herrera Development isn’t impeded by Chase there the Rookies . Let’s say Ultey isn’t on the team next yr. Galvis and Herrera are starting. End of July comes Crawford is ready he bums Galvis to 2nd which bums Hernandez to the bench. OK now Ultey on the team he , s playing 2nd and 1st. Crawford comes end of July he bums Galvis who Ultey and Hernandez to the bench. Ultey can play 1st bty Howard is more likely to be moved in the winter this is his last yr of contract. Since both Galvis and Hernandez are both being moved by Crawford . Crawford the key neither Hernandez or Galvis are the future because once Valentin comes up or Kingery Galvis sits . Actually Galvis us one good trade chip once Crawford here. Crawford is the mover once he comes up everyone moves. Ultey just went 4 for 5 he may get traded it’s doesn’t matter Hernandez goes to the bench. So really both Galvis and Hernandez are replacement players.

    3. Utley is 36. He is way past his prime. What you are likely to see next year is closer to the first half than the second half of the season if you trace his struggles back to last year’s All-Star break.

      The inability to let go of the past is what got this team to where we are today.

      The Phillies will end up paying about $4-5 million in a trade but I do not expect anything more than an org body at this point.

      1. You are right that this philosophy is a big part of why the Phillies are/ were in such a mess, but if you look at Utley in a vacuum then there are arguments to be made for keeping him, which I made in my previous post. It is disingenuous to state that just because the Phillies screwed up by keeping up their old players for too long, that keeping any of their old players is a bad decision, unless you think it reveals a systematic problem with the Phillies’ current decision makers, which I don’t think is true (Hamels, Rollins trades, etc.)

        1. Utley knows that if he comes back, he won’t be playing every day and he’s trade bait. So why would he want to come back to a rebuilding team? I agree, loyalty means a lot, but the writing is on the wall. But in the end, once Utley retires, the Phillies will give him his 1 day contract to retire a Phillie and he’ll get his place on the wall of fame.

        2. You are allowed to support Chase Utley . He blocking no one Ceasr ” T Ball ” Hernandez is the placeholder for Valentin, Kingery or Tobias whoever makes it up to MLB first. If Crawford makes before those guys Galvis will move to 2nd base. Ultey made the all star game last yr, so he wasn’t past his prime . rebuilding teams don’t have 25 mil dollar 1st baseman or 8 mil catcher either. Chase Ultey has made the phillies more money then they could ever repay.Harang is 37 Phillies signed him to a contract . I hope chase gets traded on Aug 31 for cash then hits the wining Homer to win the world series . Then comes back for 5 mil for one more yr then retires .the funny part is that may have pay his 5 mil left on his contract. So Chase may win the World series on the Phillies dime on another team. Who could replace Ultey as the face of the Phillies . Maybe cooch or Howard or Franco is to young some as Nola.Asche is good with the fans . Galvis and T Ball have been on the Phillies for 3 yrs and they are still in development. T ball k % was 21% last month the more he plays the higher it’s going. He could lead off next season 650 at bats 25 % k rate 150 stikeout with no hrs . Yep way better then chase can do. Hernandez balls were way down too.

    4. I’d pick up that option too. If the ankle was the reason for his poor play, and he’s somewhat back to ‘normal’, those options are going to very valuable.

      1. That’s ridiculous – people are living in a dream world if you think that by exercising Chase Utley’s above-market options you are going to turn a 38 year old Chase Utley into a sexy piece in the trade. $12-15 million a year are what the top second basemen are getting on the FA market – why would you pay an old player who’s hitting under .200 anywhere near that type of money?

        Look, I get it. People are sentimental about Chase Utley and they should be – he was such a great player, but right now, he’s a big salary drain. If they can trade him and bring him back next year on like a $3-5 million contract to be a team leader, I’d be okay with that, but exercising his options would be insane. The team is doing what it should do. Trading him, getting value, not spending money they really don’t need to spend, and giving a franchise great an opportunity to compete for another championship. Stop thinking in the past!!!! That thinking is why the team is where it is.

        1. could not agree more, I was in favor of only offering him a qualifying offer last time his contract expired in hopes of getting a first round pick. But extending him, I guess was a PR move , not a baseball move. Especially since it was already evident that the Phillies window of contending had closed (not that I like the Cardinals, but that is what they would have done)

        2. Catch re read my post 1 Chase is 36 yr old not 38 . 2 he has 2 options one is for 5 mil and other is 11 mil . 3 if he gets traded the options are on that team. SF isn’t going to pick the options .so Chase can come back to the phillies under a 1 yr contract. 4 Chase was the only 1 to sign a player friendly contract now , if Chase signed a contract like Howard or Cooch the Phillies couldn’t move him now. 5 the future of 2nd base is in high A and lower A and rookie ball. 6 Chase has made a lot of money for the phillies . 7 Chase is about to hit over 200 since he off the ir he’s been on fire . I’m fine with Chase being traded . I just want him to have the best chance to win a world series,The Giants have horrible schedule. 8 Cesar ” T Ball ” Hernandez isn’t the future and if Chase comes back Healthy he’d start until Kingery comes up to takeover. I hope the Angels get him this way they could have 3 of greatest baseball players in my time playing together, TROUT , PUJOLS, ULTEY .
          Maybe the Phillies bring Cesar ” T Ball ” Hernandez has Ultey bat boy.

          1. Tim,
            On number 4. Phillies will ( and have already) eat money on contracts..Cole and Paps… to get better prospects in return.

            1. Not my point Chase could have had a better deal but he didn’t . That’s class He plays the game right on and off the field. They eat some of contracts cause they have too it’s there fault.

            1. The day Amaro said he Hernandez was the best 2nd baseman on the team. My friend who,I s a retired sport writer flipped out . So did I we started to look up stats Hernandez balls in play was the highest in the league at that time. So that we watched every at bat of Cesar that’s when he went into his slump. He never hit a ball out of the infield for 9 games . About 3 games in I said it looked he’s playing T Ball . I text some people and it stuck. I can’t help if he can’t hit a ball hard on a regular basis. He has hit 14 homer’s in 8 yrs if the Phillies were good he wouldn’t be on the team. Wait I’ll get some stats.

            2. These are the same folks that hate Ben Revere because he’s not a power hitter. Look, I love a power hitter as much as the next guy, but guess what, you can still be a good player even if you don’t hit for power.

              Cesar Hernandez is a good player even though his power is extremely limited. If he hit for power he would be a star, but he doesn’t (at least he hasn’t so far), so he’s just good. Right now, the Phillies stink, so they should be playing their young players who are good. If they have other options in the future, they can flip the player for other assets, just like they did with Ben Revere. But you don’t play an expensive, older, declining bad player (even a franchise great) over an in expensive, much younger, ascending player.

              My view is that people who think Cesar Hernandez is a bad player don’t know very much about baseball. Hernandez does a lot of things well and is a heads up player – he’s always working to improve and to take full advantage of his opportunities. You could do a hell of a lot worse at second than Cesar Hernandez.

          2. Your rationale is basically, you think a guy who is going to be 37 and in the middle of the worst year of his career, might be better going forward than a guy who is 25 and is in the middle of the best year of his career (and who has dramatically outperformed the 37 year old), so let’s overpay the 37 year old guy for 2 or 3 years until the unproven guy who is in low A ball makes the major leagues. And, even if the 25 year old guy is better, the 37 year old guy is somebody we love and who made the team a lot of money so let’s keep him around.

            Do you understand how insanely flawed that argument is at almost every level?

            1. By the way, you don’t have to love Cesar Hernandez or think he’s the future of the club to realize that he needs to play.

              Hernandez has been the best position player on the Phillies this year, in a near tie with Franco and the much maligned Ben Revere. Hernandez has the best on base skills on the team. His defense is average and he’s good on the bases. Hernandez has shown an intriguing ability to continue to improve his game. Hernandez is playing, essentially as around a 3 WAR player – that’s a solid regular folks, even if he doesn’t improve (and he very well may). If Hernandez just continues to play as he has, he can either be a future piece of the team or, if there’s a better option, he will be valuable and inexpensive and can be traded.

              Utley, on the other hand, is getting paid more than he is worth. A team that is not contending should not generally be paying players more than they are worth if they can help it. As such, after this year, his option would not be exercised, whether by the Phillies or anyone else. If they can get value, they should trade him now as he will have no trade value after the season expires. He will undoubtedly be a free agent this winter and if they want him to come back on a limited basis, they can certainly sign him to a modest deal. But for now, they need to do things that add value and flexibility to the franchise and playing Chase Utley as a regular for the next 2 to 3 years will not do that; it will do the opposite of that.

            2. And I disagree that Utley signed an under-market contract. And let’s not shed an ocean of tears over how the Phillies have treated Chase financially. He’s earned over $100 mill. We don’t need to bring him back to keep him out of the poorhouse or insure him a very happy retirement. Chase was a great player, but he also was paid very well. When he signed his last Phillies contract, there were a lot of health questions about his legs and he was clearly in decline. I doubt he gets a much better deal than the one he signed. And it’s not like he’s being kicked to the street — he has FNT rights, so he is only traded if he wants to be traded.

            3. You lost if you think Hernandez is as good as Franco , Hamels , Galvis even , pap , Giles or even healty Chase. Hernandez has no power at all his k rate is up . He gets picked off of 2nd. He has no options left And plus 2nd Galvis and Franco play primo def position . Franco hits for better avg more power more Rbi and a better k rate.Galvis has plus glove solid avg in a primo def. Herrera better then him plus Franco and Herrera are 22 old rookies . Hernandez doesn’t have power .Franco hit 4/ 5 hit power 4/5 arm 5/5 field 4/5 speed 2/5 . Hernandez 3/ 5 hit Power 0/5 arm 3/5 field 2/5 speed 3/5 . Hernandez will be on the bench by this time this yr Franco will be going the mvp. Crawford will come up push Galvis to 2nd until Kingery Comes up. Herandez hits to many grounders to bat 2nd. Herrera hits the same but with power and has the same speed.

            4. He didn’t say Hernandez has been or is better than Hamels. He said that so far this season, Hernandez has been the best position player on the team. I’m not sure that’s true, either. Baseball Reference gives slightly higher WAR to Franco and Herrera, although Herrera has more AB. Hernandez is projecting to about a full-season OPS of 2.5.

            5. ‘Herrera, meanwhile, has emerged as the biggest surprise of the Phillies season. A blistering 44 hits in his last 122 at-bats raised the Rule 5 draft pick’s average to .285 over 361 plate appearances. Each of the last 15 rookies to finish a season of at least 450 plate appearances with an average .285 or better finished in the top five in rookie of the year voting in his league. Five of them took top honors’
              Jake Kaplan:

            6. Right you have say on if Chase gets his options are not ok . Hernandez is better Franco Catch right too. Hernandez get better hit about 15 Homers knock in 80 rbi hit about 350 . Yep can see that soon.

            7. I didn’t say nothing about Herrera or Ben Revere I am a supporter of both. Chase k% rate is enter then Cesar as is Homers .

            8. This is like having an argument on WIP – I’m moving on. The longer this goes on the more silly it becomes. Cesar Hernandez doesn’t hit for power. Nobody contests that. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player. Ugh.

  8. What a weekend for the three starters they got in the Hamels deal. Eickhoff, at least, should be a September call up.

  9. I know it is early, but I am very excited to see the latest efforts of the 3 SPs and Williams. And, although I still want the top pick in the draft, it is fun to see good baseball after this dreadful, pre-All Star break, season. I don’t, however want to drop to 5th or 6th in the draft.

    1. If you really think about it, the Phillies should have took that series against the Dodgers if Buchanan didn’t get blown up. And they split that short series against the Blue Jays. Phillies are playing loose under Mackanin and they’re having loads of fun. They can easily slip to 5th in the draft.

  10. Yeah if two of the four of Eickhoff, chapman,, asher, and biddle can be up in bigs next season you can go with a young staff like the Cardinals are doing,
    my goodness the amount of FA MONEY will be off the charts the next few years….

    Add in that when JPC and Nick williams and Alfaro come up they will be under rookie deals, MORE MONEY saved for FA..

  11. Utley will definitely be traded in the next two weeks to a contender. It will be a nice gesture by the Phillies to give Utley a chance to play in the playoffs again. Assuming they pick up most of his money, I be they’ll get back a decent AA arm. There’s no place for Utley on next year’s young team.
    As for the comments that Herrera needs to go to AAA next year, that’s nuts. Did you watch the game Saturday? The kid makes things happen and is only getting better. He’s our starting CF for next year unless the bottom falls out for him in Sept, which I’m betting won’t. And Hernandez will be at 2B too, there’s no one else and the kid is hitting close to 300 (more than that since he’s been playing every day).
    Altherr will certainly get a shot at a corner OF spot, especially since I think Asche will be traded or moved back to AAA to play 3B. I don’t see his bat working in LF. Will Dom be back?
    I think the Phillies showcased Franceur yesterday by playing him against a right handed pitcher. I think the Phils are hoping to get something for him. Plus they played Chooch in back to back games (night game and then a day game) which they haven’t done in a while so that probably means they’re showcasing him too.
    Next year’s catcher battle could be fun to watch. Lino could battle Rupp for a job, even with Chooch still here part time if he’s still here, or the team could surprise everyone and give Knapp a shot in spring training. From what I hear, even his throwing has picked up. The guy is playing with a lot of confidence right now while Lino’s bat is doing nothing. There won’t be any AA at bats for him with Alfaro getting those next year and he’s older.
    Minor league roster placement for next year will be fun to try and predict.

    1. That 3.4% walk rate and 23% K rate though.

      Hererra’s success is nice but unsustainable over the long haul. He is being helped and is helping the guys around him in the lineup.

      If he wants a long-term career he needs to be a more patient hitter because next year teams will key in on his ability to swing at everything.

      1. Since June 1st his Krate is down to 20%. But those BBs are alluding him…..cause he likes to swing. As they say, you cannot ‘walk off the island’….but he is from Venezuela, but its still a long walk thru Panama, Honduras, Nicarugua, Mexico and finally into Texas 😉

        1. Columbia! Yous forgot Columbia. And Costa Rica. And Guatemala. And if he doesn’t ask directions, the long way could include El Salvador and Belize

        1. I think Latin players need to be judged by a different parameter when it comes to Krates and BBrates, especially the power bat guys
          I mean how many Bobby Abrue’s are out there, who couldn’t pass up a walk with a man on third and less then two outs!
          But you are correct…Alfaro and certain Latin players seem to get a pass.

          1. Catcher, especiaily with power has an easier K/BB threshold but Alfaro doesn’t get a complete pass because if he doesn’t improve his numbers his raw power won’t show up in-game and he will be a bust. Alfaro has a high ceiling but also has the highest risk of being a bust of the Phillies top prospects.

      2. Hey, he’s a guy who jumped to the major leagues probably two years ahead of his normal schedule. He has done very well with the Phillies. Far, far better than even the most optimistic prognosticators were willing to predict on the record. He is young, he will likely fill in some of the gaps in his game. He already is decent defensively and he would be adequate offensively, even if you deflated his stats for a more typical BAPIP — although, he is the sort of hitter and runner you would expect to have an above average BABIP, so how much should it be deflated? He doesn’t have enough AB for his stats to fully stabilize yet, but 340 AB really isn’t all that small a SS. Looking at his monthly splits, more AB certainly aren’t driving his stats in a bad direction — other than a bad May, he’s been pretty consistent, with a bias toward improvement. He’s no longer a once, or even twice, around the league guy. Other teams are more up on stats than the Phillies. You can bet they already have a book on Odubel. That’s likely why he slumped in May. Pitchers adjusted to him and after a brief speed bump, he has now counter-adjusted and is doing just fine. I’m impressed that he has yet to wear down: his ISO has actually increased as the season has progressed and is quite respectable for a CF at this time.

    2. Herrera is here to stay. He can flat out hit. The Phillies scouting staff gets props for this one.

      Asche is improving in LF, but I think it would be better if he was in a platoon with Altherr.

      Unless Dom craters the rest of the year, he’ll be back in some capacity.

      The Phillies would have to eat probably half of Chooch’s contract to move him. But with more young pitchers coming up, it would probably be better to keep him as the backup for 2016.

      Knapp should start 2016 in Lehigh, Alfaro will have Reading all to himself.

        1. Mr Urbanator… you think Aaron Altherr will win the CF job from Odubel Herrera next spring? Though Altherr has less then a dozen PAs in the majors right now. And will be a year older then Herrera.
          What a beautiful mind!

        2. Please stop with the Asche stays nonsense. Well below replacement level player. If Altherr makes the team its at Asche’s expense and he goes back to AAA where he belongs.

          Sorry, O isn’t going to AAA.

          1. Asche does not have anything to prove in AAA. He was only sent there to get reps in LF. If the Phillies decide that Altherr (or Nick Williams) is the future in LF, Asche will be relegated to the bench when the time comes.

            1. You’re right. He’s already proven he’s not a MLB and belongs in AAA full time. he’s not even a bench player – he’s well below replacement level.

          2. You do realize that 2 of our 3 outfielders are learning their positions on the fly this year?

            I love how people have this idea that Herrera is some sort of superstar in the making with his 1.3 WAR.

            Funny how people forget the conversation with Larry from last week so quickly.

            1. Asche “learning” LF has nothing to do with his .280 OBP or his -1.1 oWAR. He’s terrible and has proven such. Not even bench player quality.

        3. Agreed about Herrera/Altheer. Herrera needs to go to AAA and quiet that swing. Lot of moving parts there. Just because he’s doing reasonably well in the majors doesn’t mean some time in AAA won’t help him.

          1. Good thing the experts never fooled with Vladdy Guerrera, Manny Sanguiillen and Roberto Clemente’s swings.

          2. He doesn’t need to go to AAA. Perhaps he should drop by FIL for a tuneup with Phillies instructors and then work on specific things in winter ball and ST next year. While it is common for Rule 5 guys to drop back to the minors the next year, that is because they weren’t able to hold their own in the bigs and got little playing time at the back of the pen or bench as basically a stashed and ignored 25th man on the roster. Herrera has been the very rare thing: a Rule 5 pick who not only starts at a position, but more than holds his own. He has less than a full season in CF. He should improve.

    3. Unless you see Hernandez as the future 2nd baseman that he can beat out Galvis, Valentin, Kingery, Tobias . Then Ultey , Howard , cooch could be here.

      1. We have high hopes for Kingery, but it is far from certain that he becomes a better player than Hernandez is today. It is impressive that Kingery started at Lakewood and has more than held his own, but he has a lot more steps along the way to the bigs to pass successfully and a .676 OPS is not a light-the-world-on-fire kind of thing, although given the Lakewood hitting environment and the fact that he bypassed Williamsport it certainly counts as a plus. Valentin shows promise, but is also three steps from the bigs and has personal demons to overcome. Tobias? A year older than Valentin and same age as Kingery and down in Williamsport. He’s hitting very well, but that’s a lot of steps from the bigs. I wouldn’t write off Hernandez, because Tobias is on the way. That gives Hernandez at least 3 more seasons to start.

  12. I don’t understand the Altherr starting in CF next year over El Torito theory, at all. I think Herrera has earned his shot, and Quinn starts at AA in CF, and, hopefully has a full season of good health. Altherr gets a shot, IMO, to play a corner OF position in ST.

      1. His Krate is dropping…ever so slowly.
        From June 1st it is 20%…but lefties eat him up pretty good at a 27% clip
        But forget about his BB rate ever climbing…maybe he can eventually get it to 5/6% max….anything close, with two strikes on him, he will swing.

        1. That is why you put him in AAA and move Altherr up to the Phillies.

          Altherr is better defensively and they are a wash offensively. You get more power from Altherr and hopefully a better walk rate and slightly lower K rate.

          A week ago everyone was fawning over Altherr and now he is written off because everyone has an infatuation with Herrera.

          1. David…that is your logic.
            Now come March 1st, 2016, will the Phillies say to Doobie…..’we are going to start Aaron Altherr in CF and its his job to lose, and we will send you down to LHV to get better’? And Doobie just forget about 2015….it was just a lot of smoke and mirrors”
            Seriously, Doobue starts in CF in ST, barring any injures, and stays there for April if he has another April like 2015…and if he slumps they will still give him the benefit of the doubt.

            1. What is so great about Herrera? He is below average defense in CF with a high K rate and a low walk rate?

              It is unsustainable at this level.

              How do people love Herrera and hate Revere who is essentially the same hitter with more speed and less K’s?

            2. David….actually not sure about the below average defensive grading on him…he does lead the league in range per put-out at 58 feet, I think Billy Hamilton is second at 54 feet.
              Unsustainable maybe correct there…but it still could correct to above average.
              He walks like Revere so there is a push.
              He throws better then Revere there is a plus, so runners stay at second for the most part.
              His XBHs dwarf Revere’s.
              And he is 4 years younger…remember the rebuild David….remember why Chase must go…the rebuild for the future.
              I like him

            3. The only reason he wasn’t send down to AAA a month ago was because he is rule 5. I think once people see Altherr play centerfield the only question than will be should we play Herrera at second.

            4. Romus I wasn’t saying send back to Rangers thats a given he is a good find. But he wasn’t hitting not to long ago and most likely would have been send down for more seasoning.

            5. I am so confused by peoples comments about Herrera. The kid was not ready for the majors in a lot of people opinion. He not only was asked to learn a new position but to hit high up in the lineup. I know he is outrunning his mistakes which is a good thing. He is hitting close to 300. has great speed, learning to steal bases in the big league, has some power. Has a weakness against lefthanders,, but so do a lot of others like Howard, But if people read altheer can field all of a sudden he is the answer, he is hitting close to three hundred in triple a facing a major league pitcher maybe once to twice a week. Herrera is doing it against major league pitching every day. big difference. Hernandez is getting rip yet he keeps playing great, the only complaint I would have is he doesn’t have a great arm. but he plays second and can get away with it.

            6. Baba… you. Though May, as it currently stands, was his only bad month.
              …..PA 100 with a slash of 202 /.235 /.522

            7. rocco…..if he ever can get his BB rate up to a poor 6/7% that would be a real plus for him….and that, with his Krate (though improving each month) seems to be glaring weaknesses.

          2. You can’t call there offense a wash . Herrera is doing it in the MLB Altherr is doing it in AAA/ AA. When Herrera was in AA he won a batting title if you want to use that a comparison.

          3. Barring an awful ST, I think Altherr is a starting OF for the Phillies next season. I’m as optimistic about that as I always was, but he’s not going to bump Herrera. The guys in jeopardy are Asche and Brown.

  13. I am starting to get a bad feeling about Cuban born players and there ‘team ‘ approach to baseball. They make up one of the smallest percentage of MLB players, but they lead the league in team fisticuffs.
    Puig dukes it out with Greinke and who knows who else on the Dodgers, now Jose Iglesias purposely does not get a ground ball to the left of second base, then dukes it out with McCann in the dugout, and the other guys grab his collar to calm him down
    And the past rumors of Cespedes goings on in Oakland and Boston .
    There could be a lot of Cuban movement this off-season.

    1. There’s no doubt that Iglesias dogged it on 1 of those plays. What’s more concerning is that he feels he didn’t do anything wrong.

  14. David, I am not in love with Herrera, Quinn is my choice as the CF of the future. And, I am all for Altherr getting called up. I just believe that Herrera is next year’s starting CF.

    1. We don’t know that anyone put in a claim.

      At this point I don’t think he cares about sitting on the bench. He knows this season is over.

      He could sit here or he could have a shot at playing for a World Series in a reduced role.

      1. Do you watch the Phillies games he 4 for 10 with 3 doubles including the game wining rbi . It seems Ultey is healthy he could put up power numbers that Hernandez could never reach. 10 hr 50 rbi for the yr could do it. this is exactly v what I been saying about Hernandez he reached his full potential and is regressed to more his self. Although 260/ 330 line is more likely. This is A Very good read.

  15. I’m wondering what the Phils have in mind for Sept. 1 call-ups. If if were me, it would be pitchers Jerad Eickhoff, Dalier Hinojosa and Nefi Ogand0 and outfielder Aaron Altherr. It makes sense to add a catcher which would involve shuffling the 40-man roster to create a space for Kratz, Lino or, dare I say it, Knapp. It’s dumb in September not to be in a position to pinch run or pinch hit for a catcher. Although they haven’t earned it in my opinion, it would be interesting to see if the Phils would consider adding Jesse Biddle or Kelly Dugan.. These 2 aren’t getting any younger and there may be a time approaching when the Phils have to consider the wisdom of retaining these 2 on their 40-man roster.

    1. I have a hunch that Eickhoff will be up sooner than that, going right into the rotation. Harang looks cooked to me.

  16. Herrera in RF, Altherr in CF. Dom–who knows? Williams sometime in ’16. Asche either to AAA or trade bait. He could be good with care and feeding playing full time at 3rd base for some team that has some patience. Get another pitcher or so in exchange.

    With Knapp now fully realizing his predicted offense–and more–the essential aspects of his future are to be able to strengthen his arm and its accuracy to be at least average. Unknown to me is what his game-calling skills are. As to how well he is able to block pitches in the dirt. All that development can be concentrated on over the off-season and during the ’16 season when he’d be playing in Allentown. His competition with Alfaro should be worth watching.

    Having a “competent” catcher who hits for average and power is a gem in the lineup. Alfaro seems at least 2 years away for arm accuracy (plenty of arm strength) and adding much more hitting contact and a lot less Ks.

    Another good thing to watch coing on for ’16 and on…

    1. No williams AAA Knapp AAA Hernandez ???. Really no idea with a new president and hopefully a new GM and coach.

    2. It certainly could look like this although it might be mid season before Knapp and Williams are brought up and Altherr starts in LF until then. Both will get a long look in spring training.

      1. Knapp a midseason 16 maybe – I’m starting to warm to him as the BBs and HRs start coming, and the Ks go down. But still a lot of work needed on the defense.

        Williams no. He’s the better prospect, but no matter how well he plays he’s looking at a 9/16 initial call up when rosters expand, then back in AAA in 17 till June when he should come up for good.

        1. Its not like Williams is a future superstar prospect. I think he’ll be up in 2016 after the allstar break. It will also depend on what’s going on in Philly at the time with the other OFs.

            1. You’re missing my point. It’s not primarily about performance or development (though that COULD be an issue as well). It’s about not burning a year of control on a good prospect for 1/2 of a season when the team is not competitive. Won’t happen, shouldn’t happen, even if he is “ready” (which is by no means guaranteed – approach still needs a lot of work)..

        2. Knapp won’t be brought up in 2016 to be the backup catcher. That just won’t happen, he’s a guy who needs a lot more repetitions behind the plate to improve his defense.

  17. Longtime Brewers GM, Doug Melvin being bumped up from GM to upper management with the Brewers….Ruben next?

  18. The guy who has earned a trip back to AAA is DeFratus, with an absolutely terrible year. I really don’t know why they have continued to throw him out there. Herrera, on the other hand, has earned his spot, but we don’t mention JDF.

  19. Interesting Romus, I promise I did not see this until you posted it. I don’t understand why they overworked their least effective reliever.

    1. Best not post that on Bill Baer’s CA blogsite, or experience his wrath…….he thinks JDF current ineffectiveness is due to Ryne Sandberg’s over usage of him back in April and May.

  20. I talked about jdf two weeks ago and got the same answer. Ryan Sandberg ruin him. I think its his stuff, not Sanderg. He just keeps leaving pitches up. and his off speed stuff stinks. from the times I saw him. Has decent velo.

    1. It would also help if the starters could throw 7 ings . This has to be one of the worst Sp staff outside of Hamels , Nola and Harang first half of the season. Next yr we need Nola , Eickhoff, And Asher plus 2 mid range FA . Biddle better get his but in going too.

      1. Agreed, although I have not given up on Morgan. I think he still building his pitch count. Yes he has not made it into the seventh much they are pulling him before he reaches 90 pitches.

  21. Its not the #1 pick I want, its the bonus pool that comes with the #1 pick that’s really important.

    1. Its slotted for round picks, why would that be important….or do you mean the bonus pool for the international signing period of July 2nd?

      1. i think he means like the first pick this year had a slot of 8.6 million. guys will typically take less, like swanson took 6.5, so there is over 2 million extra to spend on another guys- then you’ve got higher slot values at the top of each round, plus add it all up and that 5% overage you can go up to over the total of the pool is even that much higher.

  22. I Know one thing romus. If these pitchers don’t get hurt. Having the first pick will haunt you if you screw it up. Right now I would love pint. He has unreal stuff. But I read he hasn’t pitch in a lot of top tournament’s yet. but watch his video. that slider is better than Giles. IMO.

  23. Time for David Buchanan to be demoted back to Allentown or lower. Give the two pitchers from AAA that we received for Hamels a chance.

  24. NO NO I love david he will keep us in the top three. PLS don’t let him go down. I know one thing. if I was the new gm. My first order of business would be to see who signed david, and how the hell he got to be a starter in majors. He has nothing, all the saber metrics in the world. wont convince me he is a major league pitcher.

  25. Buchanan gives up 11 earned runs? How do the Phillies in good conscience send him out for his next start?

  26. The same way the marlins trade all there good players every year to get top picks. other teams have given up. why shouldn’t we no reason to bring up any body until sept.1.

  27. After the game, I’m expecting Buchanan to be sent down and Ogando to come up because the bullpen will be torched. And when the time comes, Ogando to be sent down and Eickhoff to come up to make his debut.

  28. Back at the #1 Pick! What else can you say about that game? Buchanan gives up Grand Slam, down 8-1, and no one was warming up. I already believe that DeFratus should be on DL or sent down. There are arms to bring up. Now, they need another SP, because Buchanan has to get sent down now, doesn’t he? That was batting practice out there. Nothing fluky about that 11 run stomping.

  29. Quick comment regarding sustainability.

    Herrera COULD well become a decent player. I’m a bit of a skeptic, but it could happen. But THIS YEAR’S performance is not sustainable. He’ll adjust (lower K rate, higher BB rate) or fail. Even with the recent improvement in K rate, there’s basically no precedence for a player with a 5-1 K-BB ratio succeeding. There are some borderline cases, but none really similar to Herrera. Shawon Dunston is a decent but not encouraging comp.

    Hernandez’ performance IS sustainable. The question isn’t CAN he sustain it, but WILL he. There are some promising signs – his approach has objectively improved, for example – but I want to see quite a bit more before I am entirely sold. Sample size.

      1. David,

        I’ve been pretty clear on my position on that:

        (1) Whatever I would do, I doubt that the Phillies will send him down. I made a throw away comment about sending him down to AAA a week or so ago, but, on reflection, I don’t think the organization agrees with me.
        (2) In line with #1, there’s at least an argument that he can work on his approach (not his swing, which is fine) in the majors as easily as AAA. I’m skeptical, but I’m not the GM.
        (3) You again fall into the false comparison trap. You STILL need to make a positive case for Asche.
        (4) But if you WANT to make the comparison … let’s see. Herrera plays CF, is already better defensively than Asche, has more speed, probably marginally better contact skills, and has about as much power. Asche has a … less bad approach. But not by a whole lot.

        1. I give up, I truly do. It’s just impossible to get through to you. Even roccom makes actual arguments, albeit usually poor ones (sorry roccom).

          You just don’t get it. Get rid of Brown, put Herrera in AAA – though let’s again recall that neither plays LF, but ignore that for now – and there are still probably 100 players in other organizations available for free (or close to it) who I’d rather play in LF than Asche.

          There’s simply no point, ever, for giving regular PAs to a guy whose UPSIDE is a below average regular. Oh, it happens, albeit rarely, but it’s a loser’s strategy that never works.

          Heck, I’d rather give the spot to a cheap veteran who could maybe be flipped for a prospect at the deadline,not that I’m advocating that as a first choice.

          1. If Williams is playing in LF in Lehigh Valley next year where does Asche get his LF reps?

            So Asche is the placeholder (which I have said before) until Williams is ready in 2017.

            He gets one year and steps aside for Williams.

            Asche poor fielding can be traced back to Spring Training where he took all of the reps at 3B rather than LF when the organization KNEW Franco would be supplanting Asche once Franco’s Super 2 date passed. They then send Asche down for ~17 days (just enough time to get Asche past his Super 2) and then recalled him.

            I wonder why he is a minus LF? You would think the Phillies would have given him reps in LF during Spring Training.

            Herrera got lots of OF reps during Spring Training because the plan was to have him play CF this year.

            The plan was for Asche to switch to LF once Franco came up but Asche got no LF reps.

            If you read my posts over the past few months you know I consider 2016 to be another write-off year until the AA and AAA guys come up and you get an understanding of the holes in the roster. Then you go out and get what you need via trade or free agency but not until then.

            But you never read those posts. I am sure everyone else here did.

            1. Dude enough with the Asche posts. He’s not good. He’s not even a bench player moving forward.

              Get past it.

            2. No, I read the posts. They just don’t – and didn’t – make a lick of sense. I don’t mean that they are going to be competitive next year; surely they are not, and no one thinks otherwise. It’s hardly a unique insight on your part. What doesn’t make sense is that you advocate retaining a player in a regular role who has NO chance to help the team beyond 2016.

              Even on a losing team, a regular job is a valuable commodity. Even in a “write off” year you give those jobs to someone who can – in one way or another – potentially contribute down the road. That can mean one of the following:

              (1) Best case, a player who is likely to be part of the next contending team.
              (2) Second choice, a guy who at least has SOME chance to be a useful piece on the next contending team. Say a change-of-scenery prospect or a rule 5 guy.
              (3) Third choice, a cheap vet who maybe can be flipped for a prospect at the deadline.

              Now, Asche certainly isn’t 1 or 3. Once could argue he is #2. I don’t buy that, at all. But that’s the argument that you have to make for him. But you’ve spent a lot of words AVOIDING that argument. Make that argument or go home.

          2. Wait, by definition half of all regulars are below average. It can’t happen rarely, as you say. It happens every day. The Phillies may have more than their fair share right now, but it’s not like there are a bunch of better than average regulars waiting in line to take their place. Those guys have jobs.

            1. No, you’re missing my point. Sure there are plenty of below average regulars, by definition. But Asche is much worse than that, a well below replacement level player. He has a CHANCE (a small one) to someday become a below average (but above replacement level) player.

              ANY below replacement level player (over a substantial number of PA) is living on borrowed time. Some keep getting chances, mainly players who were one very good – teams hope that they may rebound. Below replacement level players with no history of excellence are on a VERY short leash.

              The largish number of below average players – a very different matter – generally fall into these categories:

              (1) Players who once were above average;
              (2) Young players who have the potential to be above average;
              (3) Players who once had an above average upside who never quite made it;
              (4) Temporary fill ins with a short future.

              Team’s don’t try to develop those sorts of players by continuing to give players as bad as Asche playing time.

              To put this in terms of WAR – not a perfect measure, but a good general guide – projecting current performance over a full year, Asche could improve by 3 WAR – a HUGE improvement – and still be well below average.

            2. Asche and Brown might be gone by next yr . RUF goes to left Altherr right herrerra CF keep Francoeur and ? Danks for back ups. Nick Willams goes to left when he comes Up . Crawford comes up Galvis moves to 2nd . Kingery ones Galvis to the bench, Hopkins will be 1 of the last pieces along with knapp. Then the staff Nola, Pinto, Groome , Kilome, eflin, Thompson.

          3. It’s been a brutal year for Asche, no question about that. He’s learning a new position, so maybe better next year. I wouldn’t bet on that, but it’s possible. I think either Asche or Brown loses their OF spot next season. Altherr gets a corner OF spot, Herrera gets CF. Asche, Brown, or a AAAA type who beats them out in ST gets the other corner OF spot.

            1. ‘Asche, Brown, or a AAAA type who beats them out in ST gets the other corner OF spot’…for one, do not think Asche can play RF and Dom Brown is an Rocky and Bullwinkle adventure in LF…so have to assume Altherr will be chosen to either play LF or RF…I assume he can play both above average.

            2. Most guys switch between LF and RF an awful lot easier than Dom does. As a former 3B, albeit one with defensive deficiencies, Asche likely has enough arm for RF. Altherr probably can play any of the 3 OF positions.

  30. Can we at least avoid the sloppiness of talking about the problem with Herrera’s swing? There is no problem with his swing. I say that even as a critic. His swing his fine. The problem is with his approach. They aren’t close to the same thing. It’s like saying that a catcher who is having trouble throwing out base runners needs to work on his framing skills. It’s a non sequiter.

    1. I agree on Herrera swing. If you watch him he can flat out hit a pitch in strike zone. His problem is pitch selection. I first thought the same thing how can he hit with that stances . I now see most times he keeps his hands back. and gets his foot down. two key things to a good hitter. I believe it he cant learn the strike zone he wont be a very good player. The pitchers will pound him with bad breaking balls. Just like they do to dom brown. fast balls out of the zone. I never saw a lefthander who cant hit down and in and brown is one.

  31. Looks like Chase is headed to the Bay area.
    I hope if Ruben accepts Kyle Crick in the deal…he also gets another prospect.. IMO, the Phillies should not sell low

    1. Crick would be an interesting piece in return. He could pair up with Giles to solidify the back end of the bullpen since his command probably isn’t good enough to start. Maybe Ruben could swing a left handed pitcher into the deal as well.

      1. The Giants top 30 features almost two/thirds of them are pitchers… and basically that is the strength of their system.
        Ruben should be able to get another lower level younger pitcher…if that is what he wants.

        1. Romus your S F GM your trading for Chase Ultey now he’s not your long term because you have have Panik your 24 yr old 2nd . Belt your 27 your old first baseman. So your renting a 36 yr old 2nd baseman/ first man for the last month and a half. Also your starting CF Pagan is hurt along M Leake . J Panik , T Hudson. ASusac, T Lincecum, and MScutaro. Now your 3 games behind LA your 4 games behind The Cubs who just bet you 4 games in a row. The nats are coming in for 4 then we play the Cards for 3 . My farms us really carp I need my young pitchers because I have Hudson who is 40 Tim Lincecum done, Matt Cain done, Ryan Vogel song 38, Jake Peavy 34, Javier lopez 38, S Camilla who’s 38 and Jeremy Affeldt who , s 36. Wait out of the kindness of my heart I going to the phillies one of my best pitchers prospects . Now you know what the GM of SF is dealing with. I think Amaro trying to get a idea on Chase worth . I think the Yanks will be a better match.

          1. I agree the Yankees would be who I would want to deal with…and they are slumping badly in 2nd place now.
            But Chase may want to go home to the Bay area where he lives now, so he has the choice.
            As for Sabean……..Crick was once their top arm…last year pre-2014 rankings…but now is falling and is now between 5th and 8th on their list, and will soon be below 10 if he cannot throw a strike…think Phillipe Aumont (great stuff no command in the zone nor control)….Sabean will look to let him go for a chance at another WS run.
            If he is offered….I would think Ruben has the sense to get more.
            Sabean was burned in 2011 in the Beltran-Wheeler deal….Wheeler a guy on the rise.
            Not again…Crick is sliding downward…easy for him to move.
            Ruben, was burned by Sabean on the Pence deal.
            So there could be some wavering going on in that regards.

            1. Crick not a prospect we want no sense of the strike zone . Most of there prospects range from 24 to 27 yr old pitchers. We need to make a package up for Posey like Galvis , Hernandez, Quinn, Biddle and Ultey and Knapp.

            2. Tim – what are you talking about? The Giants aren’t in the market to trade Buster Posey. They are trying to win a WS. In my opinion, Buster Posey is the most valuable player in baseball; he young and the Giants need him. He’s not going anywhere.

            3. I know think big in no way once I look at their prospects to many 24 to 27 pitchers. Let’s get a regular player I wonder if they sign a Cuban prospect. Catch it would a miracle if they are in the hunt by the end of the month. They have A lot of players on ir , there also getting old they lost 4 out of 4 with the Cubs. So they have to beat the Dodgers outright. Looking at there schedule the Nats then Cards .

      2. BP’s Pre-2015 Rating on the Gants: 25th ranking
        25. San Francisco Giants
        Farm System Ranking in 2014: 22
        2015 Top Ten Prospects: Link
        Top Prospect: Adalberto Mejia (86)
        Prospects on the BP 101: 3
        State of the System: We tend to question things that the Giants do, including the volume of potential major-league contributors bouncing around the minor-league levels, and yet they continue to foster talent that arrives in San Francisco and finds a way to make an impact. While the Giants lack standout depth and there are open questions about the future role or ultimate ceiling of arms like Adalberto Mejia, Kyle Crick, and Tyler Beede, at some point we have to believe the club can develop and get value out of a minor-league system that appears thin on talent. If the Giants can coax catcher Andrew Susac and right-hander Keury Mella to approach their raw ceilings, then this ranking could look a touch low.
        Must-See Affiliate: Triple-A Sacramento
        Prospects to See There: Ty Blach, Clayton Blackburn, Erik Cordier, Kyle Crick, Adalberto Mejia, Steven Okert, Hunter Strickland, Andrew Susac

  32. Romus when you lived at Philadelphia naval yard. where you in the navy?? if so did you go to the sailors bar on broad street the Dolphin?

      1. Romus have you seen how they are rebuilding the naval yard. houses, apt. they just put in a basketball court for the kids. I son drives down there to play. hospital for surgery its really getting to be a nice place. even has couple of restaurants/

  33. I Saw something I never saw before the lack of range by Hernandez’ . maybe it was just a bad game. I thought he could have had a couple of those hits. Don’t know the metrics on his fielding, thought his only defensive weakness from watching him was his arm.

        1. rocco…one game …sheeesh…..I was at the game last year when Chase dropped two pop-ups……and he is a fav of mine… happens.
          Chase’s UZR is -4 and Cesar’s is -2.7…..below average for both but Cesar’s has a chance to trend upward. Chase has reached his limit and aging downward.

        2. I know when gets behind the 2nd base on a grounder and turns and throws it gets there slowly.some other things too. His dp can slow too.

  34. I don’t think we are far apart on Herrera here, despite what seems to be disagreement. I don’t think anyone believes he is a starter on a contender, merely a very good Rule V signing, who has provided some fun in a dismal season. I think he does not get sent down, because, on this team, there is no one to replace him, with the exception of maybe Altherr. And, I think there is still debate over Altherr’s abilities, not only as a hitter, but a Defensive CF. Maybe he, AA, plays with Ache in LF? Going forward, the hope is a Randolph, excuse me, C, Quinn, Williams OF for the Phils, so Asche and Herrera will be on the bench or gone. LarryM is correct in that regardless of what may or may not be beneficial to the player, the Phils will have Herrera on the Major League team next year, most likely as the starting CF.

    1. I can easily see him being a starter on a contender. People are being awfully tough on a kid who jumped up to the majors, learned a new position, and has turned in a good year. There are some holes in his game? Wow, what a surprise. I think there is room, at age 23, for some growth in his game. He gets dinged for silly things: lack of power. The kid has plenty of power and at age 23 he is likely to improve in this category, but averaging better than an XBH/10 AB in the bigs is not my idea of ‘lacks power’. For ‘lacks power’ see 27-year old Ben Revere with an XBH every 19 AB and only one of them a HR, and he can’t even play CF.

  35. On the Chase front, I am happy to see him go to a team in a pennant race. I think we get a decent return, and keeping him is useless. Someone mentioned the Wheeler/Beltran trade. The Giants won a WS that year, so Sabean takes zero flack. Remember, had the Phils won in 2011, the Pence trade would have been viewed very well, despite the high price. Winning the WS makes everything right. It was the terrible return when he got traded that was the real problem.

    1. matt13…..Giants won in ’10 and ’12 …Cardinals won in’ 11…beat the Rangers in seven. The Beltran moved didn’t pan out as they hoped. The Pence move made up for it however later.

  36. Asche was 2 for 4 last night with 2 double’s maybe he heard us. Asche has better power numbers this yr and last then Brown . That’s not saying much Brown was the worst outfielder last season per metrics .

    1. Chase’s agent needs to have a very frank conversation with him.

      Chase will be a free agent. Cesar won the job of starting 2B. Being a dick and turning down a trade based on playing time makes him look like a prima donna in terms of potential employers who will want a 1 year deal.

      If he goes, is a positive person on the bench, and helps the team win in the playoffs either on the field or being a veteran presence for young players makes him look better in free agency.

      1. David,
        Not a deal breaker……Panik has yet to start ‘baseball activities’.
        And with lower backs, things can get dicey.
        I think Chase just wants a warm fuzzy thrown his way from Sabean, and he will get it.
        Now after me David,….” I left my heart …in San Francisco…high on a hill…it calls to me”

        1. Tim (Chase) should know that he will be starting right now but once Panik comes back it will depend on his performance.

          Chase (Tim) should realize that this is an audition for free agency and the better you look now the more attractive your limited skillset looks in November and December.

        2. I thing Romus Ultey is going to play in 2016 so he wants 1 of his options to be pick up.the Phillies might pick it up for SF of the Cubs. The yanks my be waiting to see a little bit more as well as the Angels they both spend money . Funny all the in on Ultey are slipping in the standings. I think Ultey would do better in the American league. Where he could play 1st and dh. The yanks sandbox would be good. The Phillies without Chase is going to take longer to rebuild. Cesar at the top of his skill level he has to hit there not walking him anymore.

    2. Well there’s a 2nd baseman last night who went 4 for 5 with a double and rbi . After coming off the I R he’s hit 500 with a 681 slg.he not in his prime any more and old if he was younger he would have been 5 for 5 . DAVID can you guess his name ? 1 Chase Ultey 2 Cesar Herandez 3 donald Trump.

  37. I know I’m late on this but Chase is only going to go for a team that will give him playing time because he’s going to play in 2016. So either the yanks or Angels pick up his option in 2016 I don’t see SF or the Cubs doing it. The phillies might have too to trade him , if not he’s right here . When Romus said that Amaro said the might keep Ultey I thought was weird he also said before he thought Ultey had a lot left . We will see Ultey did say he’d listen and he did.

  38. Asche went 2 for 4 another double he’s up to 260 with 19 doubles if he gets to 30 with 10 Homers . He may have a spot ext yr.

      1. Get real hr 5 doubles hitting 500 since coming off ir the ball flying off his bat again. Philies have scouts at the Cubs game tonight. Castro ? Hope not David where you been Ultey played with Franco . Ultey plays 5 days a week it’s working he’s on fire Cesar in a 0 for 6 slump not that it’s a slump. Hr was 380 ft line drive he already took over Cesar in hr 5 and Rbi 30 .

  39. Phillies new GM come November????
    Nick Carfado , Boston Globe writes:
    “As team president Theo Epstein enters his walk year in 2016, Cubs owner Tom Ricketts is expected to start discussing a new deal with him soon. If he can’t offer him enough money to stay in Chicago, Cafardo wonders aloud if he could go elsewhere or maybe even circle back to the Red Sox”.
    …Phillies can offer him some money I would think.

    1. Just depends what you want to take out of Ken Rosenthal’s report:
      I take this:
      “On the flipside, Utley could have incentive to green light a trade since going to a contender could enhance his value this winter. The Phillies could also sweeten the pot with some cash to get a suitable return and make a deal happen.”
      ………..he may be packing right now for all we know…to head west.

      1. personally I just like to see him go to a winner. The return at most will be a back end starter or relief pitcher. Not much to get excited about. I think its more to see him go to a contender.

        1. Me too everybody thinks where going get a rebuilding piece is mistaken. When chase basically put it just 2 teams with the worst farms teams there is.

      2. Utley needs a wakeup call. Nobody is picking up his 2016 option and nobody is giving him that salary in free agency.

        Someone needs to tell him that if he does not take a trade he sits on the bench for the rest of the year while Cesar gets the playing time reducing his value when free agency rolls around.

            1. I know, I’m just saying we don’t know what’s true and what’s not. Even if he is hoping for those things, it may be that he prefers to stay here, but would agree to leave under a perfect set of circumstances (i.e. right team, playing time, money). That doesn’t necessarily mean he expects those circumstances to come about. As a 10/5 guy he’s earned the right to be picky and in the end he’ll make a decision about which of the options presented to him works best for him.

              If he expects to start over Cesar every day at this point, I would be annoyed by that, but again, we really don’t have insight into his thinking beyond blurbs and rumors as you said. I’m not going to get upset with him until this all plays out.

  40. David have watch 1 game or read any News or box’s scores . Cesar slumping again 1 for 13 with 5 k’s . Ultey 500 with 4 doubles and a homer. Cesar hit 324 in june 278 in july minus 46 points in avg . Amaro already said he could keep Chase because he wants to win. Ever go though your mind if Ultey out plays Cesar it’s Cesar that will not be here next yr. Romus SF has had an offer on the table 4 like 4 days . There been all kinds of talk but little movement. All Chase has to do is keep hitting.when healthy he can do that very well.

      1. You can’t handle the truth Herrera is better Altherr , the phillies will bring in a boat load of Cuban PLAYER’S and they will room at your house . Cesar will help out after going 1 for 60 the phillies had to let go . Chase will be with a starter on the Angels then sign a 1 yr contract with the Phillies and play 1st and 2nd until Crawford comes up . Then he’ll play first . Ultey played with one of the best Philly teams ever. Hernandez played a half a season with 1 of the worst phillies teams that is the truth.

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