Box Score Recap – 6/3/2014

A quick note for the comments – please try to keep the daily box comments to prospect and minor league chatter. There’s been a great deal of Amaro/big club talk lately, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but try to take it to the general discussion. It just keeps the whole thing cleaner. I get that the team and its minor league/prospect components cannot be completely extricated from one another, but the site is intended to be for prospect talk. I don’t want to be the guy going through and asking you to move on to another section every day, (especially when I am guilty of it at times, as well), so just try to think about it when you’re typing, say “Amaro” or “Revere” or “Kendrick”. Maybe it’s big league talk for the General Discussion. I welcome your feedback on this subject.

A couple notes on Tuesday’s results – Reading pitching, led by five innings from Hoby Milner (who was pulled after a rain delay), and three from Sean O’Sullivan, no-hit Harrisburg for 8.2 innings before Kyle Simon gave up a hit with two outs in the ninth. ALVIN!!!!! I mean SIMON!!!!!!!!!  Lehigh Valley managed 11 singles and no extra base hits in a losing effort against Louisville. It’s been widely reported that Darin Ruf went down with a wrist injury and needed stitches on his leg after sliding for a foul ball near the wall in left field. Not great.

Jeb Stefan couldn’t get out of the first for CLR – the bullpen did a good job in mop-up to not let the game get further out of hand – kudos to Dan Child and Lino Martinez for that. And there were a bunch of nice performances in the Lakewood game – mainly by the Andrews Brothers, Pullin, Knapp and Anderson. Ok, they’re not really brothers, nor do brothers generally all have the same first name as opposed to the same last name. Except George Foreman’s kids. (Now who’s off topic?)

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB. http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20140603

6-3-14 boxscores

59 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 6/3/2014

  1. There was a report on the fanatic the other day, and this could be old news and i am just way behind the times, that the phils admitted that Domingo Santana was on the PTBNL list in the Pence deal by accident? WTF, is that true? I also realize the fact that the first comment in the section after asking to stay on topic is off topic, but at least it still prospect related haha.

    1. I have never heard anything remotely like this. Santana was big-time prospect at the time, there’s no way his name would have just fallen through the cracks.

      1. Here is the excerpt from an article in the Houston chronicle that says the same thing.

        Less than two months after they picked George Springer from the University of Connecticut, the Astros sent Pence and cash to the Phillies on July 29, 2011, for Cosart, Singleton, Zeid and a player to be named, which ended up being Santana. In spring training, a Phillies official admitted that Santana wasn’t actually supposed to be on the list that was given to the Astros to pick from to satisfy the final piece on Aug. 15, 2011.

        http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2014/06/02/singleton-move-a-reminder-how-the-astros-won-the-pence-trade/#22102103=0&23907101=0

        I don’t know about the source, but if true, the person who shall only be named in another thread should be fired on the spot. Between that and giving Paplebon his contract a week to early to lose a first round pick, the incompetence is overwhelming.

        1. Yikes!

          Well, since it was a huge trade, I imagine the initials of the person who was ultimately responsible for handing over the list are R.A.J.

          But let’s looks at the chronology:

          August 15, 2011: Domingo Santana is selected at PTBNL
          September 7, 2011: Chuck Lamar abruptly and mysteriously “resigns” as assistant GM for player development

          http://articles.mcall.com/2011-09-07/sports/mc-phillies-sports-0907-20110907_1_ruben-amaro-phillies-files-surprise

          So maybe the scapegoat was already scapegoated and we just didn’t know about it.

          1. Uh, I’d say losing a potential all-star outfielder is a lot worse than doing a third-tier college pitcher wrong (arguably).

            1. I am not really sure how this isn’t a bigger story. This is a HUGE mistake.

            2. Weltzer himself isn’t that big of a deal, the real issue is how it affects potential draftees willingness to do business with the Phillies down the road.

            3. I don’t think it affects potential draftees’ interest in the Phillies at all. There are three realistic impacts. First, college coaches may have been more reluctant to have us visit players. Second, players and advisors may be reluctant to pre-deal with us, although if they were engaged in straight dealing it wouldn’t seem to be an issue, and third those who do pre-deal with us may be more inspired to stick with the number they agreed to. As a lesser matter, the PHillies looked like petulant fogies who seem to have as much disdain for agents and amateurs as they actually do have, but that won’t come as big news to most agents.

    2. Yes…the Phillies inadvertantly placed him on the PTNBL list….something to do also with Leandro Castro and his injury status, if I recall what was said.

  2. Quinn continuing to look over-matched with the bat in FSL. It really is time to flip-flop Quinn and Crawford.

  3. The state of affairs for this farm system is nothing short of disgusting. It seems as though, with the exception of Crawford, nobody is truly performing to their potential (Hewitt, Collier, Valle, Altherr, Quinn, Parr, Walding, Cozens, and the list goes on). I won’t even get into the pitching mess.

    If they’re not able to develop at least some players with decently high ceilings then everything needs to change. If these guys are in fact performing to their potential, then that means that the scouting department is even far more incompetent than I thought. Either way, this is nothing shy of pathetic and inexcusable for an organization with a gigantic, loyal fanbase and bottomless pockets.

    I know that injuries happen, people don’t pan out, and all sorts freaky things happen in every organization, but I’m getting tired of the dumpster fires that get trotted out onto the field every night. Sadly, I don’t have faith that the team leadership/ownership have the wherwithal or competency to do anything about it.

    P.S. — Just so that I’m not 100% negative, the near no-hitter in Reading was kinda cool.

    1. This is a blame the players approach. The sad fact is that Hewitt, Collier, and maybe even LGJ have played to their potential. Our scouts simply misjudged their abilities, apparently with some really basic errors, such as not discounting that Hewitt was a really old HS kid playing against not great competition and falling in love with Hewitt’s and LGJ batting practice power and Collier’s athleticism. The absence of a strong hit tool is just a killer for a position player prospect. A lot of these kids just don’t have it. Altherr and Quinn are hurt, so there is that excuse. Altherr was always a chance prospect and Quinn really doesn’t belong in advance A ball. Valle just cratered a couple years ago, as did Marson before him. I don’t begin to understand that. LarryM says look at the walk rate and Valle always was very deficient there and the Phillies instructional staff have always preached extreme aggressive hitting and disdained the walk. Parr was never a prospect. Walding was over-hyped by the scouts, has a great physique and fields well, but has never hit. I think collectively we bought into the scouting hype. He seems to lack a hit tool. Cozens is raw, as we knew on draft day, but has shown enough to still have hope for him.

    1. For someone who enjoys the comments generally, to have them devolve (as they do at some point every year) into the same old, same old, is disheartening. I have seen it a bunch of times since I started following the site regularly in 2010. What I hope for Alec and others is to be proactive if they like the comments. Start a topic and follow-up. Sadly there will be times when there’s just not much to talk about other than the state of the org.

      1. I believe several things to be true;
        1.The Phillies brass do have people monitor the major Phillies forums and summarize for them

        2. The Phillies owners are unbelievable PR conscious, they can be embarrassed into acting to improve the team and the farm

        3. If the message boards are Pollyanna focusing on just the good and inflating the value of our prospects and the Phillies chances to contend, as there was a fair amount of prior to this season, that owners/management will conclude that good enough is good enough and they don’t have to make what they view as painful changes

        4. The farm truly is very weak, a lot of the primo picks in the draft have gone to guys without much talent, spending on international has been lackluster, spending on the draft although constrained to be more competitive is still not full bore, draft picks have been literally thrown away, and the major league team is awful and aging into epic awfulness for next season. The owners and management of this organization need to make significant changes in how they budget, how they scout, how they develop talent, and how they build the major league roster. If they don’t change, the organization will continue to underperform. Thus, it is the job of true fans to do whatever possible to embarrass the owners and management enough to light a fire under them to push them to change. They are still happily living a fantasy, into which facts just don’t intrude.

        5. This is a prospect message board. We should want the team’s focus to be on the farm — acquiring the most/best minor league talent and laser focus on developing that talent into MLB talent. That just hasn’t been RAJ’s focus and he has the support of ownership in this.

        1. Hey Allentown, I know you care about this stuff and you’re a constructive commenter and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but if you think that the front office cares one iota about anything any of us are writing here, I fear you are sadly deluded.

          Although perhaps it was all your complaints about their lack of aggressiveness in the Latin American market that got them to sign Miguel A. Gonzalez. If so, thanks so much for that, now we know who to blame!

          1. True for one poster, but if the meme gets picked up by others and the media, it actually does work. Especially if you use the word ‘cheap’ a lot. The owners hate it and over-compensate in the opposite direction just to compensate. The Phillies meager international efforts were generally being criticized years ago and the team almost immediately responded by signing the two Koreans for $2 mill, a deal on which I’ve always felt they were scammed.

            There was a lot of cheap talk and criticism after the team lost ROlen and Schill. Management immediately turned around, after floating the lie of the humongous offer they had made to Rolen at the last minute, and signed early big extensions for both Burrell and Abreu, with totally gratuitous FNTC.

            You wouldn’t think criticism from the peanut gallery could have any effect, but we have a very strange ownership group.

        2. Yeah I am not sure the FO cares about what commenters are saying on forums but the other stuff Id be willing to listen too

      2. “For someone who enjoys the comments generally, to have them devolve (as they do at some point every year) into the same old, same old, is disheartening.”

        Last year it was Franco’s arm bar swing. The year before, it was “Babe Ruf.” The year before, it was the Pence trade. I’ve always advocated creating a separate thread — separate from even the General Discussion — devoted to whatever cause impassioned commenters choose to rail about on a daily basis each season.

        1. Yeah, when it’s specific, I think we have done that in some cases. I’m sure there was a post about the Pence trade, and another about Ruf at some point, though that was a hitting streak of sorts, and played out in the daily discussion, like other things will, over weeks at a time. I think Matt tried to address the arm bar, as well, but again, it winds up back in the dailies. I’m not seriously anti-that sort of thing. It’s lately the “Amaro stinks because he makes bad trades and signs guys to bad contracts” that gets a little bit macro for a prospect discussion.

    2. Or we could just talk about ou prospects instead if stating how bad they are everyday

      1. We so talk about our prospects. There is a lot positive posted on Crawford, who has been a real bright light. There has been a lot posted on Biddle, who has been erratic but positive of late. There is a lot posted on Franco, who has been not so good. A lot on the initial good performance by Sev Gonzales and now on the not-so-good. A ton posted on the very positive Giles performance. We’ve debated Tocci’s continuing frail frame and insufficient strength to hit, while commenting on his good D. Quinn truly is a guy who doesn’t belong in high A. We’ve had a lot more positive posting on Hiciano than he may deserve, I don’t know but I suspect another Rizzotti here. Despite being way over-aged for the league he was in, there have been a lot of favorable comments on Lavin, who really is a non-prospect. We’ve gushed over Grullon, possibly to excess. We’ve gushed when Cozens has had a good day. Hitting streaks in the VSL have been tracked daily. Really, most of the news from the farm has been negative. I think the farm performance as a whole is well below what we expected coming into the season. I know that I have been disappointed by a lot of prospects. Really, who is doing well that you don’t think has been adequately discussed. To me the farm doesn’t seem improved over last season. Partly it’s injuries. Partly it’s guys who if they were truly serious prospects would not still be in extended ST and bound for short season ball.

        You realize that you are free to comment on prospects. Have you done that lately? If not, why are you complaining.

        1. Allentown u are always talking about players shouldn’t be in in different league it’s not the player faults where they end up. Crawford is in a hitting slump I dnt see u bad mouthing him. Give these kids a break !!

          1. I don’t think it is bad-mouthing Quinn to say he shouldn’t be in the FSL. He shouldn’t be. He didn’t hit well in half a season of SAL last year, then missed close to a season to injury. I never said it is his fault he’s in FSL. I thought it clear that I blamed the Phillies for putting him there. He and Crawford should be flip-flopped. Crawford may be in a slump, but he has had a truly great start to his season. A slump does not negate that.

  4. I want Dan Child to make it to the major leagues just so I can hear the Public Address system at CBP play “Sweet Chlid of Mine” by Guns ‘N Roses when he enters a game.

  5. Reading’s lineup is now pretty uninteresting without Perkins, Dugan and Joseph. Hopefully Altherr can get going. Also, too bad about the rain delay for Hoby Milner since he was in the middle of the best game of his career so far.

  6. First off, what a ridiculous post by the ‘anonymous” poster up there. These guys update this site daily for free and they make one simple suggestion and he comes in here and acts horribly rude. Shame on you, and for hiding behind the anonymous monkier.

    As far as the repeated comments, I think that is because, sadly, we are reminding of the state of the organization on a daily basis. When we look at the box scores, it is what we see every day. A “great stuff” reliever walks 3 batters, or a “toolsy” outfield prospect goes 0-4 with 3ks…commenters are just responding to the action on the field. It sucks for sure, but that is what the organization has come to.

    Milner could find himself in the majors at some point…I don’t think hell be an impact arm but he has shown decent enough stuff to make it.

    Other than that the best part of last nights box scores is Dan Child…BA has him as a top 30 propsect and hes finally pitching like one. Obviously there is no ceiling there, but if they have a Chad Durbin kind of guy in him, that would be fantastic.

  7. I am a baseball addict, but, to be frank. I am already more focused on the Eagles than I am on the Phillies and I find it hard to even bring myself to watch these games. At least the 1997-2000 Phillies had some young players you could watch develop. Watching this team is the baseball equivalent of watching the Bataan Death March. Just dreadful, unwatchable, stupid, boring baseball by a team whose best players are only gong to get worse – among the worst I’ve ever seen. Give me a team that wins 65 games but has three guys who hit 30 homers any day over this experience.

  8. And somehow other people manage to go along with it. Look, if you don’t like the way Gregg and James before him have run this completely free and completely ad-free site, I’m very sorry for the harm it’s caused you. I hope you’ll consider not having us all arrested for not having a message board also.

  9. Feedback: Stop worrying about whether or not a discussion is “on-topic” or not. If the goal is to create a vibrant community discussion, you need to let the community decide what is and isn’t “on-topic,” instead of setting up rules about what can be discussed and when. It’s not like you have hundreds of posts daily and people are getting lost in the chaos; frankly it makes me want to not bother commenting at all.

    1. Honestly not sure that’s the goal, since you left out “about prospects and minor leaguers”. This is a niche site, so tailoring it to the audience we’re aiming for isn’t necessarily a bad thing, IMO. And it’s not like we’re out there blocking IPs for people who post in the wrong place. At least I’m not initiating that kind of action. The only post-comment censoring I do is abusive/threatening/name calling or language, and with the last I try to just *&% or whatever so the point of the post gets through.

  10. Quick question on the draft – assuming for a second Nick Gordon slipped to the Phillies and the Phils drafted him, and he turns out to be everything everyone hopes he could be, and Crawford the same, and Quinn steps it up and becomes a legit prospect, where would the Phils play those 3 players in the big leagues?

    1. Gordon has the better arm, so id keep him at SS, move Crawford to 2nd, and put Quinn in center. That sounds like a fun defense to me

    2. SS, CF, (Quinn especially), 2B, (or 3B). Not really worried about it, though. Gordon isn’t likely to fall and even if he was the pick, truly talented shortstops can be traded for real value if you can’t find a place to play them.

  11. We need to be realistic. Not overly optimistic, which has often been the case in the past, or overly pessimistic, which IMO is the case lately.

    The biggest problem is lack of young controllable talent at the major league level. The second biggest problem is lack of pitching talent at the minor league level.

    On the whole, the position player talent at the minor league level is fine. Not “awesome,” not nearly good enough to make up for the above deficits, but better than you would think if you just read the comment sections around here.

    1. Not to beat a dead horse on this, but if (say) the team’s three young position regulars at the major league level were at least solid regulars, the medium term future (at least the position player aspect of it) would be pretty good. The problem isn’t that you can’t really project 8 solid or better regulars to come out of the system in the next 3 years – even the best systems don’t produce at that rate, or even close to it. The problem is that there’s a NEED for solid regulars at -l et’s be generous and assume that we end up with a solid regular between Brown, Asche and Revere – seven positions in a short period of time.

      1. Not to mention that there’s going to be three spots to fill in the rotation after Hamels and Lee next year. And that’s even (generously) assuming that Lee’s elbow thing isn’t what it sounds like it is, and he doesn’t end up having to get TJ surgery, which case the most we can hope for is that he gets back for a month or so audition prior to next year’s trade deadline. It’s grim, grim, grim. I actually feel pretty good about the minor league system in comparison, but I agree, it’s probably asking too much even to replace the natural attrition of losing one of the majors’ most productive shortstops, a potential HOF second baseman, a stellar defensive catcher with decent pop, before we even get to the vortex of broken dreams that is the outfield.

      2. You’re right, this is the heart of the problem. But beyond Crawford and Franco, assuming he rights himself, there really aren’t any position players in the system, who aren’t really iffy, with still very significant holes in their games. Pitching really isn’t all that much worse than the position players, since we have Biddle and Giles and a lot of injured or iffy guys who have a chance, but are far from high probability (the just promoted Martin, the injured Watson, Morgan, and Mecias, and the totally enigmatic Gueller, Wright, and several relievers). Yes, there are more position prospects in this range, so the sorting out process can leave more guys left standing, but not many to get really excited about. I know we get excited about different guys. You really like Sandberg and Green, while I tend more to Quinn, Cozens, Grullon, and Jan Hernandez. Honestly, each individually is a stretch to be an above-average major league starter, although there is strength in numbers.

        1. On the pitching side, even Buchanan looks like he’s got a chance, and Pettibone could come back strong.

        2. Obviously we are mostly in agreement. But I still think you’re a little too pessimistic about the minor league position players. You say that everyone other than Franco and Crawford are “iffy.” I’d marginally dispute that – see below – but I wonder how many organizations have more than two position prospects who aren’t “iffy.” Some for sure. Not many.

          So we have those two guys, one top 25, one top 50. Then Grullon – I don’t know if I would call him “iffy,” beyond the normal risk factor of any player his age. I think he’s a top 100 prospect now, and should make some lists in the off season. Quinn you mention and we both like – probably higher risk factor but higher ceiling. Then a couple older players – Dugan, Perkins – who are probably not going to be regulars, but have a shot & might be 4th/5th OF types if not regulars. Then a BUNCH of “iffy” players who, as you imply, could be solid or slightly better regulars if things breaks right for them. You mention some, but leave out some, including Pullin (who was looking like a real break out candidate a week and a half ago but who has cooled down a bit).

          Sure, most of those guys will fall by the wayside – but that’s par for the course. I’m eyeballing it, but, focusing just on posiiton players, the system looks to be about average, maybe even a tad above.

  12. The best thing that happened was Cam Perkins promotion to LV . Play him in LF every day and see if he can be Dom Browns replacement. Its time to find out if he is big league material.

    1. I think Darin Ruf may be giving him some pointers on playing balls hit down the left field foul line.

  13. I believe this is what they call parity. There is ebb and flow throughout baseball. I’m pretty darned excited about tomorrow so to Larry’s point I am a realistic optimist who says after the next few days we should be flush with new prospects to gush over.

    1. Baseball doesn’have pairty though if there is a competent front office. Its not like other sports where teams go through peaks and valleys because of the salary cap…what happened is that the team was doing great and printing money; every game was a party itself and the city loved the team, and then they turned it over to a bonehead with no concept of value or talent evaluation.

      Amaro inherited a gold mine, and he had the money to make whatever moves necessary to keep the team on top, but he blew it on ridiculous contracts and busts. There is a difference between ebb and flow, and organizational incompetency. I really think the Phillies suffer from the latter.

  14. A) How bout posting under your name, and not as Anonymous.
    B) Learn about computers and start your own site with topics that address all of the areas you feel need to be addressed.

    Problem solved.

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