76 thoughts on “May 26th Discussion Post

  1. Very funny James.

    I gave up on Derrick Mitchell and thought he’d be cut before this year but he’s showing a little more consistency. He’s always had pop but he’s hit 5 HRs in the last 10 games and is batting .278 for the year. Don’t worry I won’t have him roaming LF in Philly this year or possibly any year. He is 23 and in A+

    When did MiLB add a section to the player profile? I just noticed that when you click on a player a new section, called “2005-Present”, is included right below his splits. I swear that wasn’t there a week ago.

  2. That’s always been there, with a different title. Maybe they’re planning to add career minor league stats but haven’t completed the process yet.

  3. Why would you wait all the way until July to replace Howard with Singleton? Afterall, he’s hitting over .100 points higher with just as much power.

    But on a more serious note, have to admit that it’s getting harder and harder to stay hopeful with Hewitt. On a night when almost everyone else is hitting another 0-4 3K effort..

  4. Singleton man I really am getting excited, even though I try to wait until they get to reading, to get excited, but the scouts were really high on this kid coming out, wish I could find the writeup on him, they had him rated really high as a first basemen with power ,didnt know if he would sign, but had great potential and so far they are right.

  5. I dont see Naylor moving up quite yet. I see him, Brown, and possibly Escalona all going to AAA prob Eastern Leage All Star time. Any thoughts?

  6. The Phils are waiting with Singleton because they don’t want to start his arbitration clock yet. Duh. How many times do we need to go over this. Besides, the Phillies are notoriously slow with promoting their prospects – why do you think they kept him in extended Spring Training. And Charlie Manuel doesn’t like playing youngsters anyway. Hell, the guy drew no walks yesterday – what happened to his plate discipline?

    Seriously, he’s going to cool off at some point, right? I think someone – I’m not sure if it was Law, Goldstein, Callis or if it was someone else – mentioned last year that Singleton may have been the steal of the draft. I keep telling myself to not get too excited about him, but I’d have to say he’s moved into my personal top 5, possibly top 3.

    – Jeff

  7. Singleton doesn’t stand a chance to make it to Philly this year…he’s being block by Rizzotti.

  8. Hopefully Singleton’s hot bat will help wake up the rest of the lineup. That outfield really needs to get going. If you had told me before the season that ALL of those guys AND Valle would be struggling – I just wouldn’t have believed it. The older College bats (and mostly the pitching) have carried this team.

    Phils left Singleton in XST. I highly doubt they’d push him to Clearwater even if he keeps hitting .400 with power. Let him build confidence, and pull the other guys up with him.

  9. A couple of those Singleton comments made me smile. Funny stuff.

    I hope it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle, but Way had another strong performance last night. His last 4 have been pretty solid. I hope he’s able to continue the good pattern.

    In terms of minor league promotions to various levels, I don’t think we’ll see much until midseason or later. Management seems to value leaving guys somewhere for a solid half a season, allowing them to develop a routine and have sustained success before advancing them.

  10. Except for injuries, don’t think the Phillies begin advancing prospects in the organization until SS ball begins and the draft is done. At that point, they need to begin making room for new players, so they promote the guys in XST who are doing well and then start shuffling rosters through the system accordingly.

    This also allows enough at-bats/IP to see which players hot/cold starts were a mirage vs. those who are actually ready for the next step.

  11. Well how about that…the Phillies drafted a position player that doesn’t need years to learn how to actually make contact with the ball.

    I agree with the analysis in the article below, which I think also correlates to some of the thoughts that PhuturePhillies has written about. Namely this comment…

    “I think Wolever’s reached the point where he’s leaving something on the table with his early picks, since he’s only looking for a particular type of player, and that’s starting to come back to bite them.”

    Read entire article here…


    (I am sure this link was listed before back in March, but it is worth reading again only 2 weeks out from the draft.)

  12. Big night for the system. Love to see what Singleton’s doing and Brown keeping up his own torrid pace. Right now I feel like our Top 3 is looking Brown, Cosart, Singleton @ the moment, but 44 ABs is still an awfully small sample size. What’s the projection on Naylor? #4-5 or middle relief?He’s quietly put together a nice little season

  13. The defensive highlight last night was Singleton starting a 3-6-1 double play. Howard throws the ball into leftfield too often.

  14. dphey Not saying singelton is heyward but they push that kid, if singelton is dominating low a, why not push him? See what we got it would be a nice problem to have a elite prospect in the system besides brown. not counting pitchers

  15. It may seem to be overkill but I come from the school of baseball thought that you can never have enough starting pitching especially with how our rotation is shaping up for the post season.

    I don’t think Happ is “okay”. I am rooting for him but I suspect his forearm injuries have to do with his ligaments which screams Tommy John surgery. I have a sinking feeling that the Phillies are purposely avoiding surgery knowing that it would take two years before Happ would be back. One full year of recovery and then one year to learn how to pitch again (Look at Liriano and Carpenter to see how long it takes to get it back.)

    So if we did make an Oswalt trade, we could have a dream rotation of Halladay-Hamels-Oswalt-Blanton-Moyer.

    So my question is, what Phillies prospects do you folks think it would take to get Oswalt? I think we can get Wade to over value Mathieson because he was here during the Wade era (at least I believe he was.) Mathieson is also looking like a sharp reliever that the Phillies refuse to call up because they don’t want to send David Herndon down and have to offer him back to the Angels.

    Any chance with Howard locking up 1B for the next century we trade away Singleton, Mathieson and some low pitching prospect for Oswalt? I know that seems like giving up nothing for Oswalt but I don’t remember Wade being the best at trades when it comes to super stars. Maybe we can even give him like a JC Ramirez or another prospect from the C Lee deal.

  16. nobody thanks enjoyed that. kind of my argument with phillies they dont spend enough on the draft, and in the international market, let saunders go, workman, drew, gibson, nathan and others, I really think the draft keeps you good, even when you draft lower like the phillies and boston and yankees, you must get those good hard to sign kids to skip college . like a kelly or porcello and others, they have the fans support and revenue to do it, why are they 25 in spending in the draft, if we had a third basemen to take felix place or a outfielder to take burrels place we have the money to sign a werth. or lee.

  17. That was in reference to Gary. Rocky, a large amount of being 25th in spending (especially if it is just last year) is that we draft low and we didn’t have a first round pick last year. Teams with higher picks spend more money simply because those prospects cost more to sign.

  18. I was thinking the same thing. There is definately a corelation between free agency and the draft, as far as spending goes. Whether you conitnually have that first round pick always affects your spending. The Phillies did over spend on a couple middle/late round picks last year, to sway the player from their college committments.

  19. No chance on a deal for Oswalt by the way, with the back loaded contract he has. If the Phillies wouldn’t reach out to Lee, there is no way they would reach out for Oswalt.

  20. Review: Some guy with a free website doesn’t like Marti Wolever’s evaluative abilities. Nobody says it’s valid.

  21. Alan could be wrong but boston and yankees draft low too and spend on draft, they go after the hard to sign kids, kelly a top pitching prospect was taken with the last or next to last pick in first round. A lot of teams like the pirates pass on hard to sign and they fall, so maybe i am wrong but there are a good amount of kids we could target with a little more spending to sway them to sign,

  22. I would note that the Yankees failed to sign their 2008 1st round pick due to his monitary demands so I would disagree that those teams are willing to spend whatever to get better prospects in the draft.

    For any good organization, it always comes down to assigned the appropriate value on any player, FA or draft pick.

  23. 3up3kkk, that’s not true about the Yankees and Gerrit Cole. He really was set on going to college. It was not a money issue at all. The Yankees were willing to pay him.

  24. then why did the yankees draft him if he was that set on going to college. They obviously thought they could convince him to skip out on college if they wrote a big enough check.

  25. One final point in comparison is that both the Phillies and Red Sox have had 30 players appear in a game this season and on both teams, 9 of those 30 players were their own draft picks.

    It would appear that both teams function with around the same success rate when it comes to the draft.

  26. Agreed, The Yankee’s wouldn’t have drafted him in the 1st round if they were certain he wouldn’t sign. They just decided it didn’t make sense to pay the $$$ necessary to buy out the college commitment.

  27. Let’s put the Oswalt trading stuff to rest … it’s NOT happening.

    He makes TOO MUCH money … only way ANY team takes him is for a salary dump where they don’t give up prospects.

    Trading for Oswalt and his injury history would preclude any chance at signing Jayson Werth … so it will not happen.

  28. Making his debut for Lakewood Julio Rodriguez strikes out the side in the top of the second relying on a curve and a fastball with “late movement” sitting in the “high 80’s” topping out at “90” for swinging strikes. Bounced his only change up that inning.

  29. On Gerritt Cole. It had nothing to do with money. Yankees offered him top 5 overall money, he was swayed to go to college instead. It happens. No realistic amount of money would have kept him away from college

  30. i went to my first minor league game ever last night. I went to LAkewood…great time good game…too many yankee fans…lol

  31. Marfis,

    You said…

    “marfis Says: May 26, 2010 at 10:32 AM
    Review: Some guy with a free website doesn’t like Marti Wolever’s evaluative abilities. Nobody says it’s valid.”

    Not sure what you mean by that comment. If you are asking to discuss it or being sarcastic. Not sure what the free website thing has to do with quality of content or validity of argument. PhuturePhillies runs a free website and it happens to be the best one about the Phillies minor leagues you will find anywhere. You offer your opinion for free and usually I find it insightful and valuable. Since when did paying for something make it better or more valid? Isn’t that the mindset that ESPN “Useless” Insider tries to capitalize on?

    Just to make sure I am clear on where I am coming from I actually don’t have a problem per se with Marti Wolever’s evaluative abilities. I think he is very qualified and competent for his job. I have no desire to see him replaced. Yet I do question some of his early targets in the MLB draft is recent years. I love the idea of taking high risk / high reward guys in the later rounds of the draft. But the Phillies seem to start as early as Round 1 with that philosophy.

    Mari Wolever has forgotten more about baseball than I know currently. I believe in his approach in the later rounds, I am just beginning to wonder if that is the right approach in the early rounds…especially as early as Round 1.

  32. Sam, just try living in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area and dealing with the Yankee fans at games. Thanks to local ownership though, there’s a lot less of them each year.

    Honestly though, I think it’s well worth to check out local minor league teams regardless of who is playing. I like to expose myself to different types of players and teams whenever possible.

  33. Speaking of Marti Wolever, the flipside of the argument in his favor about early round success is that if you look at his draft picks in the first 3 Rounds between 2003 and 2008 the Phillies haven’t seen many of those guys make contributions to the Major Leagues with the Phillies, but they have been valuable enough and successful enough in the Minors to be used as trade bait for a number of key veterans…most prominently Lidge, Blanton, Lee, and Halladay.

    I believe JA Happ is the only homegrown draft pick taken in the first 3 rounds of the draft between 2003 and 2009 contributing for the Phillies.

  34. Your, MLB, and the Yankees definition of realistic differs greatly from Scott Boras’. Everybody has a price. It was about money. It is always about money, especially so when you hire Boras

  35. I agree that the Yankees made a more than legit offer that Cole eventually turned down, much like the Phillies negotiations with Brandon Workman a couple of years ago.

    My issue is with the argument that if the Phillies would just spend more money on tough signings, they would have more success with their picks. What Gerritt Cole showed is that sometimes it takes more money than a team is willing to spend to buy out a commitment, even for a 1st rounder.

    Could the Yankee’s have got him to sign for a bigger offer? I don’t know that answer but how does it make more sense to draft a hard-sign player like that in the 1st round vs. a high risk talent?

    Both options come with their own pitfalls.

  36. Alan, I ask that you be more selective about exposing yourself. Phillies fans don’t need any more bad press.

  37. Tom, thanks for linking the BP article. It also had a bit on Naylor at the end. The Reading Eagle article said he was throwing 90-92, which is a little harder than I remember. Can anyone who goes to games there confirm that radar reading for Naylor?

    Naylor has been really good of late, but Worley has been pretty good too after his first two starts. Over Worley’s last 7 starts he’s 3.27 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 3.7 BB/9, 7.4 K/9, 0.2 HR/9. Naylor has definitely been better and probably is leading the “which starter gets promoted to AAA at some point” race, but Worley is not too shabby and a year younger. Flande is definitely (yet improbably) in the conversation too, though I think the Phils would only promote him if they thought Naylor and Worley were better served by staying in AA for most of the season.

  38. Flante might get promoted after a few more starts maybe late July or August. Keeping Naylor and Worley at AA, would be best, since they are short on AA experience. There’s no real need to more them to AAA.

  39. I’m starting to get worried about Singleton. After showing poor plate discipline yesterday (0 walks in 4 at bats), he followed that day up with a 20% strikeout ratio today – not quite in the Hewitt zone – but it’s enough for me to think that we should hang on to Ryan Howard for a bit longer

  40. Worley is not short on AA experience as this is his second year at the level. I’m not saying he is, or should be promoted, just pointing out that he does have quite a bit of experience at the level.

  41. OK, Worley was at AA all of last year, but he really struggled. His first few starts this year were much like last year. I just think you would be rushing him, especially after 2-3 good starts recently.

  42. Worley clearly has the experience as we all know. I think this is a case where scouting becomes so important. Watching the guy live, has his stuff truly improved or is he just succeeding due to a bit of luck? If the stuff and the attitude is right yeah, go ahead and promote him.

  43. Agree with you Snake … I don’t see any reason to move Worley. What’s wrong with letting someone have some sustained success at levels? Singleton has only 50 ABs at low A and people are already talking about moving him. You can’t tell anything about anyone until they struggle. That helps show what mental toughness they have.

  44. As of late I’ve been going to every Reading game (as I am tonight) I think something is up with their radar gun, because I don’t recall seeing Naylor throw “consistently in the low 90’s”. That said it was an excellent performance to witness, only 3 hits and 2 of them were in the first inning. I don’t care who you are only giving up 1 hit over 8 innings is damn impressive. Readings bats were good but I was dissapointed in the bottom of the 8th only being able to get one run with the bases loaded twice in a row. But I guess it was mirracle anyway since the first batter to come up with bases loaded was Ozzie “I swing at every pitch” chavez

  45. Can we get Cliff Lee back for the stffs we got from Seattle ? Aumont and Gilles will never play in the major leagues . They are both over matched @ AA. Since they are 21 send them back to Lakewood to start over .

    This will go down as Amaro’s worst trade ever . All the BS of replenshing the farm system was just bull .

    The Phillies are the first team this year to pass 1M in attendance, they could have had Lee for 1 year @ 9M . In fact I would have gave Lee the 20M per year , kept Drabek, Taylor and the catcher they gave up and not signed Halliday .

  46. It’s way to early to give up on Aumont and Gillies. The deal was done, so we live with it. I think Aumont needs some time to straighten himself out. He’s very inconsistent right now. Remember, you can’t judge a career over 2 months of AA ball.

  47. @Dom,
    While lots of folks agree that the trade was a poor one for Amaro I’m not sure if the venom towards Gillies is justified. He clearly played very well in the spring training games and then played very poorly in AA games. We don’t know the extent of his injury, or at least I haven’t seen it reported, when it started bothering him. Personally, I was very impressed with the spring training games I watched him play, and comments from others regarding those games.

    I’m disappointed that he hasn’t played better (or more) at Reading, but let the guy get healthy and play a bit more before writing him off.

  48. I should’nt even comment ont the Aumont-Gillies remark considering the source, but it is a bit premature to say Gillies will never play in the major leagues. Gillies has a nearly identical batting AVG and OPS as Shane Victorino had as a 21 year old in AA. The guy has less than 1000 ab’s as a minor leaguer and is already in the middle of his qst AA season.
    The assistant GM all but guaranteed Gillies and Aumont would play in the Majors (barring injury) just last week. People are so short sighted.

  49. What a disappointing game for Singleton. By going 2 for 5 with no walks, he lowered is average and his on base percentage. Quick, lets trade him for Cliff Lee.

  50. Aumont might pitch in the majors for a bad team, and gillies is what scouts said, wouldnt get the legs hits in higher ball. so far they are right, and if both these guys make it , its still a bad deal 9 million for lee for one year was the best deal.But the cheap skate owners show there true colors, no one can say it was a good deal to unload lee, unless they are nuts,

  51. The assistant GM all but guaranteed Gillies and Aumont would play in the Majors (barring injury) just last week. People are so short sighted.
    Take it to the bank then.

  52. Rocky,

    Wow cheapskate owners. 2 world series in a row with a sizable payroll. Your statements which I will try to skip over in the future shows your true colors.

  53. Seriously, how can anyone say we have “cheap-skate owners,” They’re spending 140 Mil on a team for heaven’s sake. The trade might have been stupid but it was a reflection of other poor contracts given out in the past (Eaton, Moyer to some extent.)

    As for Aumont, he is still returning back to his old 3/4 pitching slot instead of his over-the-top pitching motion. When he regains his form he will be in the majors one way or the other (could be a decent starter or potentially very solid set-up man). The Mariners were idiots for messing with his mechanics when he already had a dominating fastball.

  54. Really your upset over a kid who is just 2 months into re-learning to pitch as a starter and a 21 y/o already in AA who may be hurt. Its not like Aumont has pitched bad in every game. Stop whining about cliff lee already if he wanted to be hear he would have signed an extension in the summer and we would most likely never dealt for halladay. BTW Howard was just traded to the Yankees so we can bring Singleton up. Thats what I call the fast track. Its just 44 AB’s lets give him the whole yr.

  55. Wow you guys are whining about a kid who is re-learning to pitch as a starter and a 21 yr old kid who is already in AA and may be a little banged up. Its only 2 months. Just b/c the big club is slumping everyone wants to re-do all the trades this past off season. If Lee wanted to be here that bad there would have been an extension signed this offseason. BTW Howard was just traded to the Yankees in order to bring Singleton up. Its only 44 AB’s let give the kids more time.

  56. How they let lee go for 9 million. They fill the stadium up every game justified lee being traded? they are 25 in spending in the draft. 4 largest market. bought team for 34 million worth 550 , spend little in international market. 140 million for the 4 largest market isnt over the top. yes they got to the world series, but last year they were beat by starting pitching by the yankees, to catch up to your competion you dont let the former cy young award pitcher go to a bag of donuts, cause he is getting 9 million, if you are serious about winning, remember they were at the botton of payroll for years, when they were still the 4 or 5 largest market. two world series victory in over 140 years, most losses in history yet always got support, first team to reach 1 million fans this year, and you dont spend in the draft , let a key chip go for 9 million, sorry they are bottom line owners , and we dont derseve that,the fans are too loyal to have these owners, You can defend them but most know they wont go the extra mile to win, how can you talk bugject, for a one year contract that gives you one of the best one , two punches in baseball. like having koufax and drysdale. but I know whatever they do you will defend them, so go do they love to hear praise form blinded fans. I sorry pp but can’t let lee being traded go, when he would have made us so much better. instead of moyer orkendrick you would have cliff lee pitching, but I am so competive, I want to be the best we can be, not just win a weak east division,

  57. The team says the trade of Lee was NOT about money, and I actually believe them. They want to be team of sustained success and TRY to restock their farm system. The results are certainly a question mark, but too early to tell.

    So, please stop, the Lee trade was NOT about money. Have some faith in the organization for what they say about it. They are NOT cheap at all. As much as many would have liked to go for broke this year, that is not THEIR philosophy. They think they can win this year with what they have AND prepare for the future.

  58. rocky you are a jughead.
    The man said stop talking about the major league team. You, Nowheels and JohnfrNe continue to drag down this site with your stupidity.

  59. Rocky,

    Through your rant you forgot to mention we picked up the best pitcher in baseball and paid him pretty well. This is so off topic sorry pp.

  60. wealthy people are generally the cheapest people i know. just because you spend 140 mil doesnt mean your not cheap. it simply means you want to make more money without APPEARING cheap.

  61. Anonymous
    Oh and your verbal assaults lend a lot to the
    ” Baseball “conversations. Go work and your inflated ego somewhere else and THAT will improve the site. Little man (or woman).

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