The Phillies are 45-37 after a 4-3 week against the Yankees and Nationals. This is exactly the type of result I had hoped for if they were only going to win 3 or 4 games, win most of them against Washington. That’s 5 of 7 against the Nationals in the past ten days.
The Phils play the Orioles twice this week at home, sandwiched between off days. Then they go on the road for 11 games in the ten days running up to the All Star break.
This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for baseball topics.
342 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 1, 2018”
People continuing to trash Kapler. You would think having a team with a winning record at this point in the season would quiet these fools. This team seems to like playing for Kapler. They’re young and enthusiastic. Go Phillies.
Guess that depends if you think they have a winning record because of Kapler or in spite of him? I think he’s a mixed bag.
Nah thinks is a lot of the same team that lost 99 games? last year. Even with Santana and Arrieta signings and a full year of Hoskins. This team is on pace for a 23 game improvement. Have to credit some of that to Kapler.
No, it’s not (assume Arrieta and Hellboy are wash). Here’s what happened in 2018:
2018 Alfaro > 2017 Rupp
2018 Santana > 2017 ToJo
2018 Hoskins > 2017 Saunders/2017 Nava
2018 Nola > 2017 Nola
2018 Pivetta > 2017 Pivetta
2018 Eflin > 2017 Eflin
2018 Franco is bad, but the 2017 Franco is worst
2018 and 2017 RPs are still mixed bag and 2018 got Seranthony and a better version of Edubray Ramos which basically offsets the 2017 Neshek.
SS is the only position that looks better, but it’s not that far.
given the above, that’s at least a 10 win improvement.
Herrera my might double his hr and RBI total from last yr . Say 30 hr 100 RBIs playing CF. That’s a different too all good.
They lost 96 games last year not 99 but as KK notes, this year’s team is better position by position. I give some of that credit to Kapler who seems to do a good job handling the players and getting them to play hard. I think some of that improvement is a better roster, and normal advancement for younger players.
My biggest knock on Kapler is that I don’t think he handles the bullpen well and the numbers indicate that they don’t play the shift very well…
the knack of Kapler is the soundness of his decision making. Be Bold doesn’t mean Be Stupid. In 162 games, Kapler’s hits and misses can offset each other out. Mistakes will be made and criticisms will follow. As long as Kapler shows ability to learn from mistakes, the criticisms will die down naturally. Because if not, one of these in game hoopla might be the difference between winning and elimination in the playoffs.
No Kapler = About six more wins and first please. So who is the fool?
Not a hater – Apologies for calling people fools. An unwise and unnecessary comment.
Booby … As the players are developing every game, so is the manager. After a few awful seasons, we’re finally good again, but fans are still complaining. WTF!
Alfaro really needs to stay and play within himself.
Would not surprise me in the least if Knapp starts to catch Arrieta’s games.
Pivetta looked great in the bullpen . VV may have a career as a left handed Pitcher. No wear and gear on that elbow.the Phillies are for real 3 of 4 from the Nats. 500 record in the worst part of the schedule . Now pick on some bad teams .
Phillies 1.5 games in lead for the last wild card.3 games out for division title.
Braves @ Yankees 3 games beginning tonight.
Red Sox @ Nationals ditto. Then Braves visit Milwaukee this weekend.
Braves next 18 games are killers.
Time for the Phillies to make hay on the road after the O’s’ brief series starting tomorrow.
Did not know when Vince Velasquez broke his right arm.in his junior year in HS decided to throw left handed for that season and also played CF.
Phillies will need to play better on the road…..17 away games in July vs the 8 home games.
The teams are predominantly less than .500 teams but they need to pick up their game away from home.
And as I mentioned before ….Braves next 18 games are killers.
Knapp’s June slash……297/.357/.541..with 2 HRs…though SSS of 42 PAs…..and a BABIP of ‘he’s so fine that ‘ .409
@Booby, In the eyes of a not-so-silent minority of Phillies “fans”, McPahil, Klentak and Kapler can do no good. All three are perceived as inept/incompetent/ineffective, and the obvious success of the team this year – – and the rebuild – – has nothing whatsoever with their efforts. Good luck persuading them otherwise.
PhilliesForever – My point exactly. If they win it’s in spite of Kapler. If they lose its because of him. He’s in a “lose lose” situation. His most important asset, and it can’t be minimized, is his ability to get this young team to wanna play hard for him.
Could be a very busy week.
TODAY – The Phillies announce the signings of Starlyn Castillo,Fernando Ortega, Alexeis Azuaje, Andrick Nava, and Joalbert Angulo as part of it’s 2018 J2 international class.
Tomorrow – Phillies may announce a couple/few deals sending excess prospects (Jose Taveras?) elsewhere for additional J2 money.
More importantly … the Orioles come to town.
WEDNESDAY – Does Manny Machado leave CBP with the rest of the O’s after the game … or … does he just move his bags into the home locker room ?
The Red Sox have already purchased some international allocation from the Reds. The Reds get a low-A outfielder. No disclosure on the amount of allocation Boston receives.
A standing ‘O’ (pun intended) might be very inviting, Hinkie.
I give Kapler credit for a loose clubhouse, and creating an environment where the players really seem to like playing with and for each other. There has not been a single everyday player who has exceeded expectations, so Kapler has to get some credit for the whole team performing better than the sum of the parts. MacPhail and Klentak still have to show they can make the moves to get the team to the next level. It is July and the team is definitely in the mix, so Klentak has to do something to help this month. They can use a bat for 3B, a Lefty SP and a Bullpen piece. Let’s see how he does.
At matt13 – well put on all counts. I say irrespective of the fact that Gabe may not be “likable” as a good ole boy – the coaching staff seems to have done an excellent job “selling” improved play. Williams actually no longer swings at the first 3 pitches; even Franco has attempted to put the ball into right field ; Scotty is showing better at bats with balance ; and the pitching staff has been a revelation – see Nola, Eflin, Pivetta, and even VV…..whether that is Gabe giving the coaches more freedom or a collective effort on the part of all of them under his aegis – something is working. A team with this low a run differential is playing well over its head. And players are developing !
Kap should get credit for a positive atmosphere.
But another factor is that these guys are veterans together, though not veterans in MLB. They played together in AA and AAA, got to jell as teammates and won together. Now it’s translating to the Phillies. That is a point Knapp made.
We know this team needs improvements, and it needs them as you describe, but it could be that the core of our future champions was forged in Reading and Lehigh Valley.
Finally, the won-loss record is outplaying their stats. Hopefully, those stats will catch up rather than the won-loss record regressing.
BTW … IMO, a fair deal would look something like this:
Orioles get: Maikel Franco, Enyel De Los Santos, one of Ranger Saurez/Cole Irvin, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia/Bryan Gonzalez.
Phillies get: Manny Machado
@Hinkie – I agree. 2 controllable arms plus a INF with potential plus Franco as a throw in should be the bar. Although some people may overreact when Klentak gives up delos Santos and Irvin because Mr. Milb.com stats page says they are good prospects – better than Sixto and Medina.
I’m more confident that Machado staying in Philly than Kawhi staying if the Sixers traded for him.
Hinkie….that is on line what I was thinking…..with one caveat.
The PTBNL option could be added to the trade clause if the Phillies are able to get Machado to sign a long term deal after the season.
MLB rules dictate that a PTBNL clause has to be accomplished within 6 months of an official transaction by the gaining club.
I would offer three separate identities of prospects/players ……and then one player from a list of 5 to 10 agreed upon by the Phillies and the Os.
@romus – I don’t agree with the contingency (or the PTBNL) clause because if there’s one, BAL will jump on it especially if the PTBNL is a top prospect. The ability of signing Machado is between the Phillies and Machado — BAL has nothing to do with Machado’s decision or the Phillies ability to pay, so why compensate BAL? Signing Machado will already cost Middleton >$350M then he will still give a top prospect?
If Phillies want to tap Angelos/Duquette, throw team some good players/prospects for IFA $$. If some scrubs like Frowith can fetch $250-$300k, send them Lively, Canelo, Leibrandt for $300K each IFA $$.
KuKo……do you want Machado or not?
The more attraction that is built into it, the better chance he comes to Philly.
Baltimore has little leverage…throw them a carrot or two.
@romus – I like Machado but what attraction are you talking about. As I said, if the Phils will build relationship, it will be towards Machado and not towards Angelos/Duquette.
Don’t you think the Os would be interested in a player from the Phillies prospect list after the season is over?
And especially since machado may come in here and bringth Phillies to the play-offs.
Look , IMO, the Os want as much as they canget….but Machado is a rental, so they are in a bind.
The PTBNL gives them some added compensation to make the deal.
The Phillies are not the only team looking for Machado’s services.
It will be a bidding war….and the Os will decide.
But look I am not goring to argue the point….in a few weeks it becomes a moot point anyway.
@romus – there’s no point to argue because you are just echoing what I replied to you earlier — that BAL will sell to the highest bidder.
The PTBNL clause is lame. If Klentak really want to sweeten the pot, include the PTBNL as part of the package and not as a contingent clause when Machado signed.
KuKo…..we will see what happens soon enough.
@romus – call me mr. optimist (remember me singing the Ohtani signing!!), but I’m never been most optimistic in the situation where the Phillies can land a big time player since Cliff Lee signed in 2011.
Romus … I don’t believe your addendum (PTBNL if Phillies re-sign MM) has ever been invoked in a trade before. I wouldn’t want to be the club to set the precedent of punishing myself for re-signing a FA I traded for 4 months prior. The two sides should be able to just work out a compensation package for the roughly 10 weeks of Machado.
But the PTBNL has always been a part of trades and this does not go against the grain, so it is authorized under MLB rules.
And I do not see it as anything radical in trade transactions of this nature.
And to be frank…when was the last time two 26-year old superstar players reached free agency together!..
Incidentally, opt-clauses were never a thing of the past, but just something new in the last 7/8 years…so MLB personnel and agents do get creative at times.
I can’t wait until Manny signs with someone else
Funny watching Bill Ripken dance around the subject last night that Angelos is the type of owner that would sooner hold onto him than trade him for anything less than what he thinks he should get back.
I predict this game of chicken goes down to the final hours of the trade deadline.
i find it really hypocritical when fans doubt that Middleton will open his wallet and hope that big FA sign with different a team to prove a point.
it is similar to hating about everything the Phillies are doing and call themselves as fans.
Sorry Kuko I used bad terminology. I’m cool with signing Manny after the season I should have said “gets traded somewhere else”
as I don’t want Manny in a trade for anything that has been floated around here in the last week.
If there’s anybody who the Phils want to throw bones and build relationship, it should be Machado and anyone and everything he cares about. BAL will be business as usual and will sell to the highest bidder. If BAL will make an exception from the highest bidder, it will be not trading Machado to AL especially AL East.
The Phillies can just wait 3-4 months to pursue Machado, no need to outsmart themselves by doing a crazy idea like the PTBNL clause or something like that.
If San Diego with its deep farm is interested in Franco, I would rather see what they’d be willing to offer. Yates and a lottery ticket sound fair. Perhaps add a minor league player on our end.
@8mark – the Padres will try to squeeze every prospect they get. If they want Franco, I’ll settle for their IFA $$. The Padres are under penalty this J2 season.
I think the Phillies will have to match however the Dodgers and Yanks offer for Machado.the other option is Moose the Royals already scouted the Phillies farm.
@tim – do you have any idea what LAD and NYY will offer?
NYY has a dire need in SP and they already have Torres-Gregorious-Andujar in the left side of the infield. NYY will check in on Machado but will not offer a lot. NYY already have a potent offense, they need pitching.
LAD will need Machado but only short term. The have Seager long term and still have Turner in 3B. Like NYY, LAD has some holes to fill long term and SS/3B is not one of them. LAD will check in but not overpay for a band aid solution.
CHC will check in too, but their farm is weak. CHC value defense in the middle of the infield where Russell is more valuable defensively than Machado. CHC have Bryant at 3B and Schwarber at LF – CHC don’t have long term fit with Machado.
Mous in not an upgrade to the current 3B situation. Better get Beltre even for a rental – it will cost the Phils less.
True however LA needs a SS have a deep farm sys. NY already said they would trade DiDi if they traded for Machado.
LAD need for a SS is short term so they will not overpay and LAD has been holding on to their top prospects for years now, they will not change that for a band aid solution.
Didi will be traded eventually with or without Machado as NYY looks at Torres and Andujar in the left side of the INF and Didi will be FA soon.
Correct on NY , both have been scouting Machado. If the Phillies are in the hunt by the end of this month then go for it. However there are other options .
@tim – all GMs know that BAL has little leverage (since Machado is a rental) and contending teams will check in as part of their due diligence. While most of us here are predicting the possible trade offer, I’ve been saying this that it will just take one desperate GM to drive the price up, otherwise, most GMs will be offering a calculated package knowing that Machado will test the FA market.
I initially prefer to acquire Machado in FA. However, the current market works with the Phils. The 2 potential gunslingers (SEA, CHC) have weak farm. A potential fit in LAD needs short term solution and another player in NYY have bigger holes to fill.
I can see the Machado market starting at 10 bidding teams but no one will offer a Andrew Miller/Aroldin Chapman type package. I expect SEA and ARI to hang around the last minute, but the Phillies can match anything SEA and ARI can offer without giving up Sixto and Medina.
This would be the worst trade I ever heard of.
Opponent strength of schedule the rest of the way:
Phillies – .480 (4th easiest in MLB, easiest in NL)
Braves – .506 (19th in MLB, 10th in NL)
Saw this reported last night that Starlyn was expected to sign early today.
The Phils can trade up to $2.96M of IFA $$.
The Padres expressed interest with Franco and they are one of the teams under penalty in J2 signings. If Klentak can get $250K from nobody, Maikel Franco can probably give him $1M from the Padres.
The Reds is another team under penalty and currently in rebuilding and young collection mode. Klentak can offer Lively back for another IFA $$ and possible ask them to take Jake Thompson too.
I still find it interesting that the Phils gave $4.5 million to J. Ortiz a couple of years ago. They must really have loved him because they have not come close to that number before or since. In fact, there are not many J2 signings in that ballpark.
Scouts said that Jhailyn has once in a lifetime power potential so the Phils made a once in a lifetime offer. It’s a lottery ticket for sure, but the Phils has been paying millions of $$ for junk players, so the $$ they give Jhailyn sounds like a good investment.
I believe the J2 signing limits were quite different when they pursued Ortiz.
Used to be anti Kapler however after listening to him more and more I’ve actually come around. He seems genuine w his positive speak, before I thought it was just coach speak but he believes in it. Personally, I’m glad he’s doing well and obviously hope it continues.
Kapler may not be the best choice for his position, but given the current team dynamics, Kapler is right for the position. Although I still believe Wathan is still the better fit since Wathan coached and win together with most of the young players in the team.
Not many managers in baseball win that game yesterday…Kapler went for a big inning in the 5th knowing that pulling Jake would be unpopular with the veteran and he had a questionable bullpen. He pinch hits for Pivetta in the 13th knowing that a position player will pitch the next inning if he fails to score a run. Kapler is different, refreshing, bold and I like it.
I don’t agree.
The last 10 games is supposed to be brutal and going 5-5 is a modest goal. With the Phils going 5-4 before last night games, Kapler can take some chances and that’s what he did. If the Phils were 3-6 or even 4-5, Kapler’s approach last night will be different. Kapler the the off Monday and a Pivetta’s schedule bull pen session yesterday in his pocket. A sound skipper knows how to use that.
Last night, we saw Kapler acting like a true skipper knowing his available options rather than a math wiz wannabee.
I should say Kapler knows they are off on Monday….
How To Get The Latin International Talent:
How the Braves Got Acuna For $100K.
Phillies vs Marlins:
Aug 4th and 5th….Wall of Fame Night….Alumni Weekend…10th Anniversary of the ’08 WS Champs
Roy Halladay and Pat Gillick get inducted to the WoF, and the 10th Anniversary team guys are suppose to be in town that weekend.
JRoll, Ryan, Shane, Chooch, Myers et al should be there.
I guess we will also know the fans reaction to one Jayson Werth..
I wonder if Jayson will even want to show up anticipating the worst ..Chase and Cole also probably will not be there, but for obvious reasons
Though Cole has a better chance of attending than Chase😎
Yes…..a trade could make that happen.
Klentak should offer Chooch a coaching role. There’s good potential in Alfaro and Knapp’s bat – but if they cannot overcome their defensive limitations (although Alfaro is improving), the Phils need to send them to AL as DH.
Alfaro is improving!
After yesterday that leaves a lot to be desired.
My money is on Knapp catching Arrieta this weekend in Pittsburgh.
Look at these as for MLB leaders….in a negative connotation.:
Stolen Bases Allowed as Catcher
1.Martin • TOR43 2.Lucroy • OAK40 3.Chirinos • TEX36 4.Narvaez • CHW34
5.Alfaro • PHI32 (33% CS)
Passed Balls 1. Narvaez • CHW 9 … Sanchez • NYY 9 ….3. Alfaro • PHI 8
Errors…..7…leads MLB …tied with Pitt’s Diaz.
Matt Vierling promoted to Lakewood!
That’s very exciting. He could be special.
Aaron Brown to REA and Wags to LHV.
Has anyone seen anymore signings other than the following six?
Starlyn Castillo, rhp, DR……..Fernando Ortega, rhp, DR… Joalbert Angulo, lhp, Ven
Alexeis Azuaje, ss, Ven….Andrick Nava, c, Ven……Javier Vina, c, Ven
@ Romus Starlyn Castillo, rhp, Dominican Republic (No. 16 prospect) — $1.6 million signing bonus
Fernando Ortega, rhp, Dominican Republic (No. 32 prospect)
Joalbert Angulo, lhp, Venezuela (No. 42 prospect)
Alexeis Azuaje, ss, Venezuela
Andrick Nava, c, Venezuela
Javier Vina, c, Venezuela
Kelvin Pichardo, ss, Dominican Republic
Victor Diaz, c, Dominican Republic
Thanks Tim…..any scouting reports on Kelvin Pichardo, ss, DR and Victor Diaz, c?
Footage on kelvin Pichardo on utube . https://youtu.be/CMv_ZVr4on0 Castillo here
Here’s Victor Diaz OMG his legs Hugh. https://youtu.be/Kq0PD7x8Kns
One more Yeuri Corona, ss, Phillies, Dominican Republic
Tim, you mention your friend Hugh quite often. Bragging?
Nah lol huge
Phillies and Dodgers Look to be the Favorites for Machado in trade..Cubs and DBacks not far behind:
Seems highly likely that Manny will be on a NL roster by July 31. I maintain nobody will give up their top prospect(s). It should come down to who offers more in quality controllable arms along with a position player or two. The Phillies have enough. And this currently not a matter of going after Machado simply for one playoff game. We’re talking division. And I believe the FO is already all in, playing the market like they did in the off season. Patiently, which isn’t much fun for us but hey….
I can see LAD’s priority to be an RP arm and LAD will not afford to lose any near MLB arms since they have their share of injuries with their pitchers. The top pitcher that I can see LAD giving up for a rental is Dustin May, currently in A+. Abdullah is another arm but he’s hurt and also in A+. As for INF, will LAD make Lux available?
Unless LAD gives up on Yaldier Alvarez and BAL takes a risk, I don’t see any possible offer that LAD can put together that the Phillies cannot match in quality and quantity.
Klentak can sell high on delos Santos and Irvin.
KuKo….”Klentak can sell high on delos Santos and Irvin.”….you can also add Drew Anderson into that equation somewhere. 🙂
Lefties can’t hit Irvin .
@romus – looks like Drew Anderson doesn’t want to look good and be sold high. He’ll stay in Philly and be Jacob de Grom!! Lol!
Or Justin De Fratus. Take your pick.
Nah! Anderson’s floor is de Fratus ceiling plus some magic pills.
Seriously speaking, Anderson can be poor man’s Seranthony in the bullpen. 2 potential above average pitch in FB-CB combo and can mix some pitches.
Yeah, we’ll see. I’m not that impressed. He’s okay, but I don’t think he’s the hot shot you make him out to be.
@catch – i don’t like picking on low hanging fruits that’s why most of my arguments here are debatable. Drew Anderson is my #BeBold pick.
Phillies like clock work P, SS,,C , 2nd base.
Engel Francisco Estevez he just pitched a no no for -6 ings on the Phillies DSL league. That we his 3 Rd shutout this yr.
Was not we
Some footage of Ramon Rosso’s CLW debut yesterday…courtesy of Baseball Betsy:
Kids big you can see that slider and the movement of the fb. Lots of swing and misses.
Outstanding report on Rosso Sal A had him at 93 to 95 . http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/ramon-rosso-phillies-pitching-prospect-minor-leagues-20180517.html?mobi=true
Should the Phillies pay too high a price for a Machado rental, he will be in a position to demand a king’s ransom from them as FA. The Phillies will be forced to justify what they paid to rent him.
I’d say the most the Phillies give up in quality/quantity for Manny would be a package along the lines of De Los Santos, Kilome, Irvin and Gamboa. They may add another player if they substitute one of the above with another young pitcher of less stature. I don’t think they will offer or give up more, nor should they need to.
I wouldn’t think that Baltimore would give up a star player in his mid 20s for any thing less than top prospects. And if that entails giving up Sanchez, Ortiz, and a couple of other rated prospects, then I wouldn’t do a trade, especially if you have no guarantee that he will be here after this season.
BAL has no leverage, every GMs know that Machado will walk away in FA. If BAL wants a kings ransom, they should have traded Machado when there’s few more years of control like Chris Sale.
Yes, they do have leverage – it’s called demand. There will be many suitors for Manny. They will compete against one another and be pitted against one another. They will receive an offer that will surprise you.
True but not nearly as high as a rental, especially for teams less confident that they can re-sign him. From what I gather, the Phillies are not among the less confident in that regard, due to the existing history/relationship as well as the mega dollars waiting to be spent.
@catch – i’ve been pointing out economics in every trade scenario. looks like you agree with my economic concept of: a) supply vs demand; and b) market determines value. But, you stop there at supply vs demand. To determine market price, you need to determine what the demand is willing to give to get the supply.
Here’s an example and I will use small numbers to simplify.
Assume that a seller is selling an authentic high collectible artifact (supply) with a target price of $10 and draws 1,000 bidders (demand) and each bidder is willing to pay $1-5 range, what do you think the market price is? It’s probably $5. Even if you increase that 1,000 bidders to 1,000,000 if the prevailing price the market (demand) is willing to pay is still $1-5, than market price is still $5.
Now, if the market is only 10 bidders, but one bidder is willing to pay $20, then how much you think the artifact will sell? $5, $10 (seller target price), $20 (highest market price)? It’s $20.
To translate this to the Machado market, the market price will depend on what trade package that the GMs/teams are willing to give up to acquire Machado knowing the situation that: a) he’s an elite talent; b) rental for 3 months; and c) no guarantee that he will resign with the team.
Even if Angelos/Duquette/Media sets a kings ransom for Machado, it is the market (GMs) who can effectively set the price. If no GMs is willing any top prospect, then no other GMs will.
As I been saying in the past, it will take one desperate GM like Theo or Dipoto to drive the market price up if these GMs are willing to mortgage their future for Machado.
While none of us will agree on the “right” trade returns to Machado, the concept of economics will always apply.
If teams are going to lowball the Orioles for Machado, then he’s not going anywhere. The Orioles will give him a qualifying offer and collect the compensation pick. No GM wants to be the one to give away Machado for not full value.
Jon Heyman “wouldn’t be shocked” if Machado was traded to the Phillies and ended up signing a multiyear deal with the club.
MLB Network’s Jim Duquette (Dan’s brother) also predicts Machado goes to the Phillies for JP Crawford, Adonis Medina and Kyle Young.
That is probably the most logical return to the Os for Machado.
Then again could be a three-way with Franco going to the Padres and maybe some of his return going to the Os, along with some of the Phillies.
The possibilities exist in many forums.
Perhaps one brother talks to another brother ….and JD has to couch some of his remarks..
Romus, I think Franco gets them a setup reliever (Yates from San Diego?) or perhaps int’l money/lottery ticket combo.
At least Medina is in the deal (as the top 100 prospect).
Guru … you are too funny. You are so fixated on prospects that are rated in the top 100 that you look right past the fact that JP Crawford is also mentioned in that proposed trade. IMO (and I’m almost positive that around MLB), JP Crawford is rated more valuable than Medina (and I really like Medina) at this moment.
Maybe The Guru is an Oriole fan after all. He likes them Sixto, Medina and JPC for 10 weeks of Machado. Oriole fan doesn’t have a lot to look into their farm.
JP has done absolutely nothing in the big leagues, and now he’s getting hurt. If JP was doing something, then you wouldn’t want to trade him right?
Right now, JP is not a prospect anymore. There’s a book on him, and it’s not good. And his defense has been awful.
But I am sure, every GM would be willing to take him off your hands if he is that bad..
Are you kidding ? You’ve written off JP Crawford after 163 MLB AB’s ?
As I’ve posted a couple of times already, JP Crawford is on my list of Phillies I would not include in a trade for 10 weeks of Manny Machado.
Here’s the list: Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, JP Crawford, Scott Kngery, Jo Jo Romero, Jhailyn Ortiz, and Francisco Morales.
My idea for a MM deal would include: Maikel Franco, DLS, one of Ranger Saurez/Cole Irvin, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia. If that (or something like that) doesn’t get it done, I’ll wait to sign him after the season.
@ Romus, JP Crawford has some value. There’s always going to be a GM out there who thinks he can benefit from a change of scenery. But a change of scenery guy is not going to be a center piece for Manny Machado.
Right now the Phillies are winning without Jp. On Offense he really isn’t better Franco or Kingery. until Jp Can prove he can handle MLP and stay healthy . He still has a chance. however how much of a chance are going to give him this yr.
So … you’d rather be the GM (of the worst team in baseball, BTW) who held on to MM all year and ended up with just a draft pick ?
Franco, De Los Santos, Suarez & Gamboa >>> draft pick
Hinkie….”with just a draft pick”….a pick after the 30th selection no less.
Dan Duquette must trade Machado this month.
Though, not sure it will save his job anyways, but it is the intelligent thing to do..
There are good owners and bad owners and some owners are bad for different reasons. Some are bad because they meddle and get emotional about players others just don’t want to spend money and some do both to the detriment of the club.
These things make it difficult sometimes to evaluate a GM. Duquette is backed into a corner. A year ago he wanted out to become the President of Baseball Operations in Toronto and Angelos said no you will honor your contract.
What ever happens with MM I am not putting it on Duquette. The only FO more dysfunctional than the Orioles was probably the ones under Montgomery and Dallas Green and maybe Arte Moreno.
@Guru – “No GM wants to be the one to give away Machado for not full value.”
Sounds like an ego problem to me since that’s short sighted. What full value are you talking about? Every GM knows that Machado’s value is going down by each day passed. BAL has the worst record and selling every key player they have. They will do a full rebuild.
It’s more of a media problem and it happens more often than you think. If you let Machado walk, at least there’s some plausible deniability. The GM could say that the offers were crap and nobody would know the truth because the offers are not common knowledge. You trade Machado for B level prospects and lottery tickets, not only will the media have a field day, you might as well look for a new job.
And years from now, people will still talk about how the GM essentially gave away Machado.
Whatever you think the media will say, it will come and go. This will not be written in history so teams will just move on. BAL is operating a baseball team and their decision is not based on what the media says. A baseteam team’s main customer are the fans, not the media, teams are more concerned on what the fans feel because the fans are the ones that affects the bottom line.
Very little goes on in trade negotiations that doesn’t get leaked. You can describe Franco, De Los Santos, Suarez, and Gamboa as B level prospects all you want, but that group totally trumps (and I hate to use that word as a verb … UGH) a draft pick.
Also … remember Duqette is trading 10 weeks of Machado. He’s not dealing a year and a half of Machado. He’s got just one month left to swap MM out for something. He’s going to take the best offer.
If DD is lucky, he’ll get a top 100 prospect (or maybe two). But, I’d bet my house, if the best offer he gets is a group of B level prospects/lottery tickets that equate to Franco, DLS, Ranger Danger, and Gamboa, he’ll do that deal because it beats a draft pick.
Here’s a list of 14 international FA signed by the Phillies yesterday –
7/2/18–LHP Joalbert Angulo (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–INF Alexeis Azuaje (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–RHP Starlyn Castillo (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–OF Jeury Corona (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–C Victor Diaz (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–RHP Wilson Gherbaz (17) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–OF Reiberth Gil (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–LHP Neyker Ibarra (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–C Andrick Nava (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–INF Kervin Pichardo (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–RHP Jonathan Rivas (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–RHP Luis Vegas (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–C Javier Vina (16) signed as an international free agent
7/2/18–RHP Eiberson Castellano (17) signed as an international FA
Wonder why they didn’t include the one Timothy C mentioned: Yeuri Corona, ss, Phillies, Dominican Republic He was in the BA list.
… ..is it Yeuri Corona, ss, Phillies, DR as BA has it , or Juery Corona, OFer DR…or are the same person?
Kapler was spotted last night watching Drew Anderson at LV .
OFer Jeury Corona….from 18 months ago…assume he has put on muscle weight and is up from 150 lbs
Might be easy typo missed not me . It was text sent to me. I did see Yeuri Corona on another site so . Another crazy First name I saw Warming Benedia not on the Phillies list though .
Can you believe Willians Astudillo is getting his MLB cup of joe and making the most of it with a 455/455/1.091 OPS 🙂
He was playing with Twins’ Class A Team against Lakewood last year. He was playing on their AAA team this Spring. Go figure. He could always hit. The DH/catcher role is probably a fit. Go Willians.
Astudillo is just such an interesting player, especially now that he is showing some power. He’d definitely be an interesting bench piece. And if you didn’t see this play this spring it is a fun one to watch. He must have a decent arm.
LOL that was sweet. I didn’t see that b4 so thanks for posting!
Well, yeah, in 11 ABs. Talk about a SSS. That said, I’m pretty sure he can hit. He hits, never walks and never strikes out. He’s a one-off player, that’s for sure.
Speaking of cups of Joe, maybe pitchers of Joe,(pun intended) in the boxscore it listed Jesse Biddle with the win over the Yankees yesterday for the Braves…. and doing it giving up two hits and a walk in his 2 innings of work. ERA looks decent, under 3.0
Report: Orioles accelerating pace of Machado trade talks
https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1566167 interesting just came across my wife.
Hope he realizes ..shortstop might not be the best place for him down the road,
unless he picks up his defensive game and the metrics that go along with it.
He has his share of throwing errors….but I guess that is expected from left side infielders since the majority of their errors are throwing miscues.
Machado has a few too many however.
No idea why he did that Maybe for more money .
@romus – i do believe that Machado’s choice to be a SS is just to increase his value come FA. Once he got his massive contract, Machado wouldn’t mind going back to 3B if that helps his team.
This is more of an ego thing. The health of SS are way less than 3B. You would be wary of giving big money to SS than 3B. Prime example: Troy Tulowitzki.
@Guru – “The health of SS are way less than 3B” — are you saying this because you just want to say something? Team will pay big $$ to Machado because of his bat – PERIOD. If they want defense in SS they just stick with Galvis type players with way less $$.
SS is the most demanding defensive position and if teams want to preserve Machado’s bat and his health long term, they will move him to 3B. As a player, Machado knows that too.
You just answered your own question. If Machado knows that 3B is better for him, then why is he at SS?
@Guru – i have to agree with Hinkie that you are crazy. Look at my post at 9:48AM to answer your post. It’s OK to disagree all the time, but for everybody’s sake, if you cannot make a sensible argument, don’t spin everything all over again.
@ KuKo, I have not called you, Hinkie, or anybody on this board any names. I’ve been civil in my dealings. If you want to ignore my posts, that’s your right.
But let me make this clear, you (and Hinkie) are the ones putting out these trade scenarios that are begging for a response. If you can’t take the heat, then I suggest you tone down it down. The minute you get a response that you don’t like, you turn absolutely hostile.
My wire Not Wife.lol my God
Shane Victorino retired today good luck , God Bless TY.
Get that guy on the Phillies Wall of Fame next year!
And do not forget Jayson Werth! 🙂
All in town August 4th anyway except Chase and maybe Cole..
This is one of the trade scenarios that I found reasonable. Just to highlight a couple of trades discussed:
ARI – Machado for Jon Duplantier, Ketel Marte, and Taylor Widener.
PHI – Beltre for Enyel delos Santos and Ranger Suarez.
The ARI trade package is pretty good which can give Klentak something to think about if he really wants Machado. I will stick with the delos Santos-Irvin-Gamboa-Franco package or just wait until FA to sign Machado.
TEX will easily accept the trade package since they will get a couple of MLB ready arms for Beltre. Klentak can really sell high on delos Santos right now. If he will give up delos Santos, shoot higher than Beltre.
Kuko has gone kookoo for koko puffs or he is just trying to get a rise out of me LOL
DLS for Beltre seriously you can’t be serious with that one. Put yourself on a time out!
DMAR … in this instance, we agree. DLS and Saurez is too much for 10 weeks of Beltre.
BTW … it sounds like the Rangers aren’t going to deal Beltre, anyway. I don’t think he wants to be traded, and he has 5 and 10 rights.
@DMAR – if you’re going to bash me, make it accurate so you don’t sound like a schmuck. The link is not my report, I just shared it here. I also didn’t say delos Santos for Beltre. Read it again – I actually said “if Klentak will give up delos Santos, he should shoot better than Beltre”.
Okay, you’ve called one guy crazy and another a schmuck. Knock it off.
And your post starts with “This is one of the trade scenarios that I found reasonable.” So, it’s easy for readers to think that you favor the Beltre trade regardless what you say later in your post.
I suggest you be careful what you type, grow a thicker skin, and watch how you talk to others.
Really hate that. I think one or maybe even both of Suarez and de los Santos can be sold 2-3 SPs. That’s the kind of trade you make when you think you can win a title that year. That could be Casey Blake for Carlos Santana all over again.
Exactly……pitching is a rare jewel and giving up two potential mid-rotation arms for a two month rental like Beltre would seem an overpayment.
One of those pitchers should be enough to get Beltre. But I’m sure Beltre has 10-5 rights. He loves Texas, I don’t think he waives it.
I would reluctantly do the Crawford-Medina-Young deal, and I think that is a trade that each side is a little upset to give up what they did….which makes it a good trade.
No chance should we trade Sixto there, or any more than that. If the O’s were to do that, they would get a ss who hasn’t hit at the ML level but has a pedigree as a prospect and could put it together, a fire arm in medina and Young who is years away but could project to be something special. Phils would get the ability to bargain with Machado, as well as his services for this year. But as I said, no Sixto. If the O’s don’t like something like this, then try again in free agency
Todd Zolecki is really throwing water on any smoke related to trading for Machado. Hearing so many conflicting reports. Enough already. But man, how we live this stuff!
You beat me by 3 mins 8mark lol.
Personally, this Machado talk is dominating too much of the conversation. I’m tired of it and hoping that this gets resolved ASAP.
NOW HERE THiS ON TRADE RUMORS THERE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE MACHADO TRADE. PHILLIES OUT.
Thats are ARE OUT .
Well if he is traded to any team we don’t have to give a pick and J2 dollars when we sign him!
GOOD. I don’t like rentals for a non WS club
Hold the phone, Tim. MLBTR posts various reports from various reputable reporters. Zolecki is the only one that downplayed Machado to the Phillies.
Ok new rumor the Phillies checked in on Fulmer from Detroit . The Yanks on J Happ.
And Heyman also tweeted that he’s heard chatter on Hamels coming back home.
Heard the Fulmer rumor last week. Doubt that materializes.
From what I’m reading, hearing, sensing – Manny will go to LAD or AZ. If Dodgers, it’ll be harder to sign him in free agency.
I wonder if not signing Machado in the off-season will adversely affect Matt Klentak’s long term job security
What with all the front office ties, all the available cash out the wazoo, and all the hype that comes with all the media speculation and fan expectation, I’d say yes.
Depends on who he brings in . Let’s say he brings in Frazier, Drury, Britton , Hand .
Not having a Plan B to acquire a major talent is more problematic for Klentak. MM picking another team is as much, if not more, on MacPhail. If he can’t bring in Machado, with his ties to him, is what they are counting on. MM will have multiple high $ offers, so it won’t just be who writes the largest check.
I don’t know, it could be who writes the biggest check. I mean, the Phillies do have the Baltimore connection, but that could mean that they have more insight into Manny than the other teams. Manny hasn’t made any indication that he has any loyalty to anybody.
But it sure could be the highest check, all else being equal.
If I have to agree with DMAR, it is a need for me to get some self imposed time out. I’m having a lot of disagreements with a lot of people lately. This craziness in the NBA free agency gets into my head…
I still think you’re awesome 👍
@DMAR – thanks mate for staying cool. I’m fully recovered and it’s amazing what a full rest can do.
This is the way you do it . Boston beats the Nats,Yanks beat the Braves , Phillies beat the O’s . Franco with a great defensive play . Williams walks twice, Elfin looks like a gem.
I wonder how bad Elfin bister is .
Can see Phillies in first place before the all-star break July 16th.
And Eflin , IMO, has surpassed both Velasquez and Pivetta for reliability and effectiveness.
In his draft class of first round pitchers , other then stars Jose Berrios and Lance McCullers, he seems to be making the most progress.
Ironically all three HSers were drafted bewteen the 32nd pick and the 41st pick as supp 1st rounders.
Doobie…last 99 ABs, 23 games…..222/.252/.475…he epitomizes the term of a streaky hitter.
It’s that stupid load of his. Simplify it!
You know….zebras do not changer their stripes. Might as well forget about him ever changing.
He has fallen in love with the HR….has 7 during that 23 game stretch.
Had 7 for the prior 58 games.
Cord Sandberg announces his retirement.
And, he also announced his engagement. Best wishes to Cord and Haley!
New job husband good bless good luck.
CBS Sports Jim Bowden confirmed that 8 teams have been in touch with Baltimore. He says the Phillies are front runners with St Louis runner up.
Gabe tactfully dodged the question when he was asked what were his thoughts about the chants ‘we want Manny’ during the game.
Paraphrasing….” we are the Phillies and we are here to beat whatever opponent we are playing”
Sounds like a guy who knows where he’ll be playing next year … if not this month.
Now if we could just get Hinkie to sit next to MGMT at the next confab.
Not for nothing – I am enjoying the J2 position players who are starring for Atlanta, Cubs, Yankees, etc. but mostly get enjoyment out of Phillies seemly have fair amount of the top J2 pitchers – we may not have the everyday players but we certainly have the J2 pitchers ! Arano, Seranthony etc.
Eflin for Machado?
Interesting. I can understand both sides of the yay or nay on that one. Tough call.
Eflin is the Phillies 2nd best starter right now so I’m not sure it helps them in 2018 to make that deal to rent Machado for the rest of the season.
I like Eflin a lot, and hes been unreal, but this would be classic selling high and I would be ok with that. I would much rather Eflin than a package involving Medina or even de los Santos.
It is possible that this is the best 6 game stretch Eflin will ever have in his career. It is also possible he becomes a reliable top of the rotation starter, but I would say the most likely outcome is somewhere in between those. To get Machado in red pinstripes for the rest of this year, plus have sole negotiating rights with him for months, plus getting him a taste of what its like to be a worshipped athlete in philly is worth the risk that Eflin actually is this good.
I would actually be surprised of the Os did this; I feel like they would at least want a projectable big arm from the lower minor leagues as well.
I do think if you do this deal, re-signing him long term becomes 100% imperative.
For me it doesn’t really matter if Eflin is really this good long-term (probably not). Any deal to get Machado is to make the playoffs this year and right now, Eflin is pitching like a TOR starter..
Remember all of Eflin’s physical issues that are now, for the first time, non-existent. This could be the real Zach Eflin we’re seeing — another ace to go alongside Nola. No trading him away.
He was after all first round pick, seven picks before McCullers and just after Berrios.. …even with the two tendinitis laden knees.
He said with his two rebuilt legs he can now get the 4Smr to do what he wants…at the velo he wants.
That’s a solid “No” for me. If you’re dealing for Manny Machado this month, it’s to make the playoffs this year. If you want to make the playoffs this year, you can’t subtract from your starting rotation.
Again … this has been an exciting half season, but the Phillies (realistically) are not winning the WS this season with or w/o Machado. The Phillies are set to sign MM this winter … but … (like most other people) I’d still be thrilled to trade for him right now … if the price is right.
IMO … the price is not right if the Orioles insist on Efflin, VV, Pivetta, Crawford, Kingery, Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, Jhailyn Ortiz, JoJo Romero, or Francisco Morales.
My offer is still Maikel Franco, Enyel De Los Santos, one of Cole Irvin/Ranger Saurez, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia. If Baltimore can find a better offer (and they more than likely will) from a team (Cubs or Dodgers) with a more realistic chance of winning the WS this year, or a team (DBacks) whose window is closing in 2018, then I’ll just wait to sign Machado as a FA this winter.
Wow man, I would MUCH rather give them Eflin for him than a De Los Santos/Ranger Suarez/whoever else package. Eflin has been good for 6 starts. I like him, but this is a great chance to sell high as I said in my comment. I don’t think if you brought up De Los Santos right now he would be much worse than Eflin
As I’ve mentioned before, De Los Santos is very similar to Eflin. The difference is Eflin is proving it at the MLB level right now. The chances of DLS making the same kind of impact Eflin is making for a run at the playoffs this season is not good.
Again … what’s the sense of adding MM for a playoff run if it means giving up a member of your current starting rotation (who by the way is one of the main reasons you’re only 1.5 games out of first place) ?
Do you think that there is any value in getting MM a taste of what its like to play here, love the city, get adored by fans, and have exclusive negotiating rights? I would hate to see him go elsewhere and that organization puts the full court press on him and he decides to stay there bc of how the team and city treated him.
If you trade for MM, it’s mostly because you think he will help you win the division. Yes … the fact that he becomes familiar/develops a relationship with the team and city is a side effect. However, Machado is not going to sign a LTC during the season. He’s going to hit free agency, and will sign with the team who offers him the most money (IMO).
The good news is … the Phillies have been planning for MM for at least two years now by whittling down their payroll and giving them more payroll flexibility than any of the other big market teams.
Hinkie…..from what Jim Salisbury wrote yesterday….now Manny is wavering…unless a ploy to get traded off maybe the worst team in MLB history, san the ’62 Mets …indicating he is not entirely sure, he would not sign an extension with a team if traded Jim Salisbury reported yesterday. Middleton and the Phillies will probably offer him the most of any team anyway in the off-season..
I’d like to see the Phillies try for Curtis Granderson, and send Cozens back to Lehigh. After that, I’d like to see them make an attempt at Brad Hand, or any reliable left handed reliever. If the Phillies decide on a starting pitcher, I’d prefer Hamels, and I’d move Pivetta to the bullpen for the rest of this year. I would only trade for Machado if the Phillies include Franco or Hernandez in a deal. I trust in Klentak and PHIL to determine fair value, and I doubt the Phillies will overpay for anybody.
Don’t see that Granderson is much of an upgrade over Williams.
Granderson is hitting .248 with 9 hrs and a .811 OPS in 237 PAs
Williams is .236 with 10 hrs and an .747 OPS in 222 PAs…
Who’s that much better in the NL then the Phillies.
1. Factor in they have one of the easiest schedules in Baseball.
2. Every team has its warts in the NL.
3. The Nats are falling from the top.
4. The Braves have some really young players help them when will the 162 grind finally caught up.
5. The Brewers , Arizona , Braves are on top off the NL right now. Where were they 3 yrs Ago ? At the bottom.
6. You only have to face 1 of the TiTans in the AL.
7. I never thought Machado was the cure all for the Phillies. Theres alot of tradable parts both on the Phillies and in baseball.
good points. Milwaukee has the best record, with a very questionable starting rotation.
somebody last week was throwing out Edwin Escoabar of Minnesota- that does seem like a nice much cheaper plan B (Twins might try to re-sign him in off season after trading him). switch hitter though much better from left side, who can play short/third, leading MLB in doubles. can mix and match him with Franco, Kingery, Crawford.
Maybe as an off the wall option, the Phillies should talk to the Rangers about a deal, not for Hamels and not for Beltre, but rather for Choo.
On the plus side, he fits their preferred mold of a player who takes pitches and gets on base. He’s add a left-handed hitter to the line-up, has some power, and is a significate offensive upgrade in RF. Put him in the #2 spot behind CeHe and before Hoskins allows them to move the streaky Odubel to the 5 spot after Santana and give them good right/left balance in the line-up and a ton of base runners at the top of the order.
On the downside, he has 2 more years left on his contract at $21m per season and age (35) is an obvious concern. Depending on how much money the Phillies are willing to assume he shouldn’t cost much in prospects, maybe Nick Williams and a 2-tier pitching prospect who’s already on the 40-man…
I believe he does most of the designated hitting and is considered a very weak defensive player. Haven’t looked up those stats but I have read that is the situation with him. But his obp is outstanding.
FYI – Altherr and Williams have been bad defensively as well.
And I think trading any current major piece for MM defeats the purpose of the trade.
If Klentak wants to preserve the team’s future and still wants to fill some holes at the major league level, the first person he should be consulting is Pat Gillick. Gillick had his strengths and weaknesses but his greatest strength, in my view, was in filling out a roster for a stretch run. In that one area, he was as a great a GM as I ever saw and he typically did it without sacrificing the future.
I also want to bring something to everyone’s attention that people seem to be missing. And that’s that the hitting from the number 5 through 8 holes has been so atrocious that the team will improve considerably just by picking up a number of average to above average players for the pennant run. From mid-July through the end of the season, so long as the team is in contention, the guy who is playing best continues to get the most ABs and if that’s Nick Williams or Andy Knapp or Maikel Franco, then fine. If it’s someone else, that’s fine too.
He’s started about 20 games in RF and yes, his defense isn’t very good. The good news is that RF at CBP doesn’t require a good coverage and as Catch noted, Altherr and especially Williams aren’t gold glovers out there.
Elniery Garcia to the Cards for international bonus money
Hinkie predicted that last week I think. Can someone educte me? Is this $ for next year’s signings? Or, did they go over their allotment and needed this for this year? I read somewhere that we had the lowest amount of Int’l $ for this year. How does that happen?
It’s for the period that just started. The Phillies lost $500,000 of money for their 2 FA signings. Only thing I haven’t seen is how much $$$ they got from the Cardinals who are under penalty for previous spending and can’t go over $300,000 for prospects.
Most likely, the Phillies got 250 thousand dollars of international money for Garcia. He won’t be the last to be traded. IMO, Jose Taveras makes a lot of sense as a guy who could be moved for more J2 dollars.
To Hinkie – I agree with your MM trade analysis. But – don’t you think it likely that O’s ask for Crawford or Kingery to replace MM position wise ? What is your objection to trading Crawford in this scenario ? I have a problem trading Kingery but less so with Crawford.
To Wawa Mike – I had thought of Granderson too – he is the consummate teammate and still is capable of clubbing 15 homers between now and end of the season – however, that means replacing Nick / Altherr which is a contradiction in terms of really finding out who is/isn’t a future position player.
Between Altherr and Williams, I think we (and the Phillies brass) already know what we have in both players. Neither is more than a 4th OF moving forward. Unfortunately.
RU … Yes. The O’s would prefer Crawford or Kingery, but IMO they’re too valuable to give away for a rental (even if the rental is Manny Machado). I could see doing that if the Phillies were a Machado away from winning the WS. They’re not.
MM is a 3Bman IMO (that’s why I’d offer Franco in that deal). For me, Crawford and Kingery are still the future MIF of the Phillies. If they’re going to be dealt, it should be for a player who comes with more than two months of team control.
Jon Morosi (who threw Eflin’s name out earlire) just tweeted a few minutes ago that Medina is a likelier trade piece in a Manny package than Eflin.
If Medina (and only Medina) is the centerpiece of a Manny package, I do the deal. His inclusion should lessen the rest of the return to Baltimore. Offer another young arm, middle infielder (Gamboa?) and an outfielder (Listi?)
I’m not saying I want this and I’m not saying it’s going to happen however a buddy of mine was telling me about the following trade . . .
Manny/Jones/Britton – he didn’t mention players going back but said the Phillies are serious about this package. Also said they’ve checked in for a JA Happ/Donaldson trade.
The reason why I’m even mentioning this is bc he’s said this to me 3 times in our life . . . Early evening of the Lee signing, Giles trade and the Santana signing . . . Somehow he knew when those were happening, and won’t say how. But he never mentioned any others, so it’s not like he’s just throwing stuff out there and hoping something sticks. Once again, not saying I want this stuff and I know it sounds suspect lol.
If the 32-year old Jones is part of it…then have to assume in the return package, one with an OFer ….MLB or prospect…will be in it somewhere..
Jones is a rental, along with MM….and just about $5M left on his contract this year.
Britton also a rental with about $4M left on his contract…but he may not be coming around as fast as they would hope..but his last two outings have been very good..
They’re all rentals. I believe the Phillies would have to give up too much for two months of three players. Besides, the O’s could probably do better selling each of them individually … or at least in two separate trades.
It’s an intriguing trade and maybe taking on all that salary lessons the overall Manny package, because maybe a 4 for 1 becomes a 5 for 3 swap then it doesn’t look so bad.
However, I’m not sold on Britton and I don’t think Jones is necessarily better than an Altherr/Williams combo. Maybe just more consistent.
And Jayson Stark just mentioned Adam jones as a fit for the Phillies . . .
Eric D I heard the same package from Baltimore .
Medina, Ranger, Gamboa and Listi for Manny. What say ye all?
I think the Os will want Nick Williams ilo of a minor leaguer Ofer.
I would say ‘no’ on Medina in a deal for Machado only. That changes for me in a larger deal that could involve other free agents the Phils could be highly confident of re-signing — more confident than they can be now about re-signing Machado in free agency. I’d hate to give up Medina for a single rental.
‘Yes’ to Medina, Suarez, Gamboa, Williams and Crawford for Machado, Britton and Jones. Gives Orioles controllable arms and replacement pieces. A very good trade for the Phils if they can sign Manny long term. Not so much, but not unbearable, otherwise. I wouldn’t offer a better package than this for 3 rentals.
The emergence of young starters in the Phils’ rotation makes this possible.
Keep Franco at 3B till the off-season. Swing a deal with prospects for Hamels and then go to war with that team.
On a side note but a big note . . . We are here guys. This is what the past 5-6 seasons have been building for (or rebuilding) . . . 10 games above .500 at this point in the year is nothing to turn our noses at. We SHOULD be competing for the playoffs for the next several years. Let’s enjoy being competitive again.
The June Swoon is history, now get the tiger’s eye for July and race to the top of the NL-East.
If the phillies are going after Manny / Jones/ Britton . That’s does say there are going for it . There 3 major weakness left side of the infield , a vet closer, RF.
You do know…Manny is not going back to third base…third base is in his rear-view mirror.
So does JPC head to third , or Maikel stay, or Kingery jump over.?
I understand that’s what Machado is saying now …but … let’s see what his stance is after signing a fat, new contract. He has to understand as a SS, he makes a great 3Bman.
Hinkie…..I guess he assumes he will get better the longer he stays there.
Right now his .980% is on par with Trevor Story and Sox Bogaerts.
His 7 errors are not bad …he is about middle of the pack there….20 others have 5 or more..
But not sure how his range factor comes across compared to other shortstops.
Is he a Gold Glove candidate?…..not really…not now anyways.
@Hinkie – I echoed this to The Guru earlier this week. The insistence to play at SS is really for Machado to have a higher leverage in negotiating for his next big contract. SS is a very demanding defensive position and teams will pay big $$ to Machado mainly because of his offensive skills. Once Machado got his big $$ contract, he will will not mind playing 3B.
Kingery moves to 3b until either Manny feels compelled to return there or you-know-He gets traded. And I don’t think Franco will be wearing red pinstripes come Aug 1. Crawford might be the super U guy unless he’s included in the deal.
8mark – Yes Franco to Padres and Hernandez to Angels in the off-season.
IMO … it’s going to be next to impossible to trade CeHe this winter. Teams like the Angels can hold onto their prospects and just go FA shopping. The 2B market will be robust. Brian Dozier, Logan Forsythe, DJ LeMahieu, Neil Walker, Marwin Gonzalez, Daniel Murphy, Jed Lowrie, and Ian Kinsler can all be had for just cash.
Hernandez is under team control through 2020. The Phillies will probably hit him with a QO then, and pick up a compensatory draft pick for him.
Why is everyone in a hurry to trade CeHe as he is in the top four in runs scored in the NL, works the count well and is usually a very good defender? I don’t see anyone else who can replace him right now as Kingery needs more time.
Good points, though one could look at it also as a lot of teams will have needs at 2B and maybe free agency isn’t where they want to go for that particular position.
Add to that Hernandez maybe the youngest one form that group. Murphy and Forsythe are dealing with an injured season and struggling to rebound. Ian Kinsler is pretty old and done. Neil Walker is just done. And Marwin Gonzalez hasn’t played more than 20 games a year at 2B in years.
I think he’d be pretty attractive on the block to teams not wanting to roll the dice on some of these names in FA.
Hinkie, that’s an okay list but among them, the better 2b like Murphy, Kinsler are getting long in the tooth and or fragile in their aging years. Dozier is probably the biggest name but although I’m not a huge Cesar guy, he is and will probably be a better value, even as a trade commodity. Marwin Gonzalez’s value is mainly in his versatility than as an everyday 2b. Everyone else on your list seem little more than journeymen. So I would disagree that Cesar would be difficult to move, keeping in mind that as a 2b, he wouldn’t bring a sizable return regardless of the market. I think targeting a couple of young high ceiling bats in another club’s farm system would be a good get.
As much as I like Cesar, second basemen are the safeties of major league baseball – they are significantly undervalued. Even the very top second basemen are rarely paid an AAV equal to the QO amount. If they gave him a QO he would be more likely to accept it than to find another team willing to pay that amount or close to it over a 3 or 4 year period. Knowing that, I think, at some point, they will either trade him or sign him long term. There are a lot of problems with this team, Cesar is not one of them.
@Hinkie – we are in agreement in about Cesar for a while now. Cesar is 30 yo by the time he’s FA and his value is just going trade down from since he peak last year. It’s not hating on Cesar because he’s a good MLB and a good solider, but if the Phillies either get value from him or they will eventually lose him for nothing. With depth in INF, I don’t see the Phils signing a 30 yo 2B who is a good complimentary player but not a game changer.
Posted this in the Upper Pitching Level section but the Phillies traded Elniery Garcia to St. Louis for International Bonus money today. The bonus amount is not known but good trade as St. Louis is under MLB penalties.
Is the official return for Elniery?
Nats are getting creamed by Maimi . Baseball going upside down
so much for that. maybe that turns around the Nats season. at least the Braves lose again.
The Nats have their issues, but they are very talented and the line-up is excellent. I expect them to go on a month or longer streak at some point where they play like 15 games over .500. We will see then if the Phillies can keep pace. The Braves are legitimately good – they are not going anywhere. The Phillies, to me, are the big unknown. They’ve squeaked by with some close wins, but they must hit more – either with their existing guys or with the help of an acquisition or two.
Braves have no bullpen….Freeman ain’t the answer for them
And their starters are pretty questionable for a stretch drive in August and September.
Nats’ Strasburg is the key….if he can’t stay healthy and give them at least 10/12 more starts, he has already missed 5 rotational starts, right now he would have about 15 to go before the EOS ….it will be hard for them to overtake both Philly and the braves he cannot get going.
If you look at their run-scoring differential, the Phillies should only be two games above .500 right now whereas the Nats should be 6 games above .500. This is not to say the Phillies have no chance, but that they need to improve to have a reasonable expectation of performing this well again in the second half of the season. The top half of the line-up has gotten on base and generated numerous scoring opportunities – now the bottom half of the line up must produce because they have been terrible as a general rule. The pitching, in my view, has been quite good and I don’t see any reason why that cannot continue.
Nats had 7 winning games that skewed that run-differential metric.
Phils lost 17-7
Rays lost 10-2..June 6
Pads lost 10-2, May 21st
Pitt lost May 12-4, May 1st
Giants lost 15-2, Apr 25th
Braves lost 8-1, Apr 2
Reds lost 13-7, Mar 31st
…thats a 60 runs differential in 7 games.
I don’t entirely buy that – those run differentials reveal the sleeping giant in their offense. When the bust out, they are going to be dangerous, especially when Daniel Murphy starts hitting again. That dude can flat out hit.
But will still come down to pitching in Aug and Sept…Yankees in the AL are doing the same with their bats…but good pitching shuts them down.
If Arrieta comes around and Eflin maintains…..and just hope for average from Pivetta and Velasquez, I think the Phillies have just as good a chance as any NL-East teams.
IMO, Phillies could be in first place by July 16….whether they stay there to the end is up in the air.
Romus I agree with you , as I stated before he Phillies can now beat up on the weaker teams. The Diff will change the Phillies had a run of 42 games were they played good teams. The Nats scored 14 runs against one of the worst teams in baseball. They also gave up 12 .The Braves with McCarthy out and Sanchez they will have to lean on that bullpen more and more.
The back of the Nats rotation is getting hammered , Hellickson, Roark, Fredde , Gio aren’t that good.
Tim…Nats’ Strasburg is suppose to start one of the weekend games after the all-star break. and coming back from shoulder inflammation is very iffy.
Well, the Marlins are a convenient whipping boy for the Nats who have scored 31 runs in 2 wins which sandwiched 5 consecutive losses to the Phillies and RedSox. They need starting pitching badly and relief help as much as we do.
Nola at the top at the half-way point:
WAR for Pitchers
1. Nola • PHI 5.3
2. deGrom • NYM 5.0
3. Severino • NYY 4.9
4. Sale • BOS 4.8
5. Scherzer • WSN 4.5
6. Kluber • CLE 4.0
7. Freeland • COL 3.8
8. Snell • TBR 3.8
9. Bauer • CLE 3.6
10. Verlander • HOU 3.5
Yes, in bWAR. Nola is 7th in fWAR but either way, he’s really awesome. And it’s not a fluke – he has as an advanced and repeatable repertoire as anyone on that list. He’s a great pitcher.
Sounds like the Orioles front office is trying to bungle the Machado talks after all. While Ken Rosenthal reported yesterday that talks are “accelerating”, now Jerry Crasnick reports that Baltimore is holding their ground on their demands for two top controllable young arms and a positional replacement for Manny. Too many cooks in that kitchen. Man, what a nightmare for O’s fans longing for a return to relevance. Old man Angelos, his two sons, Brady Anderson and GM Dan Duquette. Those can’t be very productive pow-wows.
Look at the Nats…..they have to sign Harper…he isn’t getting traded anytime soon……so they either sign him or get a 30 something draft pick.
That seems a lot simpler, Romus. The Nats, warts and all, are going for it. There are no expectations of a Harper trade except for bored reporters looking to create fake news.
8mark….coincidence….just saw a MLB network trailer about….’should Nats trade Harper”?…hah.
Is he practicing at first base in expectations of a Yankee trade?
All of sudden I guess Mike Rizzo is scrambling…..of ocure with Soto, Eaton, Taylor and eventually Robles he has plenty of OFers.
Maybe Harper is going to plat 1st for the Nats.
Romus – due to his awful season I can see him signing a short term contract with Nats to hopefully retest the waters at another time. Whatever, he will get his $$$ but he is not likely to get a 10 year 500 million $ deal – maybe a 3 to 5 year deal. I would not sign him now that I see how inconsistent he is – to pay the kind of money he wants, you need to get a proven day in day out producer without warts.
He must also see the limitations that come with his overall production.
When you look back at his 7 seasons…there is some inconsistency….pinnacle years like 2015 with a 10bWAR season and 2012 (5bWAR)….then a few rather pedestrian for a superstar like him mixed with injuries in those seasons.
But like you say….he could very well sign a one year deal and then try it again after 2019.
Franco for Beltre., then Jp Crawford, Williams. VV for Machado and jones.and Britton
I can’t wait for trade season to be done. These hypothetical trade packages give me a headache and they are largely irrelevant in terms of what is going on (sorry, it’s true). I’ll be happy when we can talk prospects again.
Sorry for your Headache take two aspirin and call me in the morning after 11am ty
I was going to block “hive”, don’t need new trolls here, and it turned out to be roccom again. You gotta stop screwing around like this, rocco.
TR has an Article where Balt what’s 2 mL rotation pieces .1 ready made SS , the Phillies do have this . Crawford, Pivetta , VV or Elfin , Sixto , Crawford. The rumors are Al over the place .
Teams should back off wait until the trade deadline is closer . The Phillies have many choices and trading partners . The more they win the more a trade is likely.
I would have to agree, Tim. Address the more urgent needs like the bullpen, RF, 3b, maybe SP. Then strike when the Manny dust clears. Let his market come to us because we have what it takes to get him if some other club doesn’t overpay.
Funny across my sports ticker ” Baltimore asking to much for Machado”.
For WIW – Jayson Stark reiterated today on MLB radio—– that Phillies are not willing or likely to give up a significant asset on the order of a “grade A prospect(s)” or quality current mlb player(s) for MM “unless the market for MM collapses.” Despite the love expressed for Manny while Baltimore visited Stark states that it is a “myth that a team taking on a rental player will convince him to change his mind to stay” if he wants to test free agency. He was not optimistic that Phillies will be where MM lands in a trade —– BECAUSE they have the money to just buy him as a free agent over the winter.
Push comes to shove when the time comes….I think a 7yr/$275M offer will get his John Hancock
MLB’s Mark Feinsand mentions 3 players that I find very intriguing:
The Twins Eduardo Escobar plays 3 IF positions, leads MLB with 34 doubles, and is cheap but might cost prospects.
Tigers’ Nick Castellanos is a FA after 2019. We could get him for a little less than a controllable player with a decent chance to re-sign him if it works out on the field.
Lefty reliever Brad Ziegler of Miami.
I keep hearing that teams aren’t close to offering what the #Orioles want for Manny Machado. He’s an amazing player, but he’s still a rental, and Baltimore’s expectations just don’t jibe with the way the market values rental players these days. Something has to give.
12:22 PM – Jul 6, 2018
I stand by my proposed offer of Maikel Franco, Enyel De Los Santos, one of Cole Irvin/Ranger Saurez, and one of Arquimedes Gamboa/ Nick Maton/Jonathan Guzman/Luis Garcia for MM.
My off limits list in a MM trade remains: JP Crawford, Scott Kingery, VV, Nick Pivetta, Zach Efflin, Ser-Ant’ny, Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, Jhailyn Ortiz, JoJo Romero, and Francisco Morales (and probably Kevin Gowdy).
If a deal can’t be worked out … that’s ok. We’ll just sign him for money this winter.
Ramos reactivated from DL.
Eickhoff OTOH felt tingling in his fingertips and will return to Philly for evaluation. Doesn’t bode well for his future.
IMO, think TOS awaits him……hopefully the one Velasquez had, not the surgeries Harvey or Ross had..
Eickhoff is done for the year.
Braves and 1st rounder Carter Stewart failed to reach an agreement. He will honor his commitment to Mississippi State. That’s HUGE.
Assume his wrist issues were a Braves’ concern.
HUGE? Big picture, it’s a minor bump in the talent accumulation road for the Braves. And it means the Braves get another high pick (with the corresponding bonus pool $ allotment) in the 2019 draft.
According to MLB’s Mark Feinsand, the Phillies have moved on from Machado “for now”. The price is too high.
I’m okay with that. Few things worse for the long-term rebuild than to overpay for a rental. The real pursuit for Machado will come after the season.
Pivetta to the pen he did look good there.
The Phillies are now in First place with over half the season over. Alf playing 3rd ? I wanted see him pitch.
With Velasquez on the shelf and the double header vs the Mets on Monday, who gets the call? TBD on Sunday. I assume Eflin pitches one of the games on Monday. Nola on Tuesday. And will Pivetta remain in the rotation or morph into a swing man of sorts? De Los Santos’ next start should be Tuesday and then he goes to the Futures game the following Sunday. Drew Anderson is on the 40man roster. Either Sunday or the other game on Monday will be a bullpen game? They get to add a 26th man to the roster Monday.
Or maybe Gabe gets BOLD, pulls a Cash from TB and starts Seranthony one game for the first 2 innings?
And speaking of BOLD, don’t be surprised if Gabe starts giving Alfaro significant time at 3b with Knapp producing lately.
Knowing that Alfaro has a weak bat. What upgrade is he over Franco? Alfaro is hitting 245 with a 290 obp. Franco is 264 with 308 obp. franco has 36 more at bats. so I don’t understand Why he would do what you are suggesting
He’s already talked publicly about it. And put him at 3b last night after removing Franco earlier.
Making preparations for Franco heading West to join friend Freddy perhaps.
Is it me or does Franco seem to be hitting the ball hard the to right. Williams ,4 walks in his last 2 games . Knapp showing power from both sides. Like I said Rumos the Diff will change with the Phillies playing the lower teams.
Leiter may get the other game.
Kapler said Santos there’s that , the way Pivetta is pitching who knows.maybe 2 new starting pitchers.
If it is Santos….well I wonder who gets DFAed from the 40 or put on the DL?
Tough call, Romus. They might want to trade a guy like Thompson or Lively. Otherwise, Milner and Curtis are expendable.
You could put Florimon on the 60 day DL. I haven’t heard anything to indicate that he is close.
I love when I follow the previous drafts. One pick after us in 2017 Jordon Adell is killing it at 19. power average. We take Hasley who is hitting with no power draft is a crap shoot
That reminds me – anybody seen or heard from roccom? Vacation? Witness protection?
He’s posting as “hive” now.
I should have been a detective, Jim😎
I’ve read about this disorder rocco displays 🙂
Me too the disorder comes in many forms .https://youtu.be/GyaIF1iTs-Y
Adell k% is 26% 4%bb rate in high A .Hasley k% is really good at 15.5 % .Adell might still have to move from CF to RF . He’s going to fill out and slow down .
Gowdy has remained a top 15 prospect for me, even through his early career arm woes.
Drew Anderson will be replaced by Casimiro in his scheduled start in LHV. The Phils can add a 26th member because of the scheduled double header. Anderson appears to be the choice to make a spot start. Some people will be asking for delos Santos or Irvin but this is only a short term decision so a spot start between Anderson, Taveras or Ranger (all in the 40-man) makes more sense than DFAing somebody to accomodate delos Santos or Iving..
Phils looking at Whit Merrifield from KC, wonder what that would cost?
Perhaps someone off the current 40.
Do not think the Phillies want to obtain a player for someone not on their own 40, and then have to DFA a player to add Merrifield….who happens to be another middle infielder/utility guy.
I think the Brewers will have more of need for him than the Phillies.
Boy I can get used to this Phillies win again.
ESPN has Drew Anderson starting tomorrow against the Pirates. Eflin is getting pushed back.
Eflin and Nola both starting Monday’s doubleheader. Sounds like DLS debuts Tuesday?
ESPN also have Nola pitching on the Sunday before the all-star break. He’s a lock for the all-star game, but if he pitches Sunday, I doubt he pitches Tuesday. I wonder if this was intentional by Kapler.
Does it bother anyone that Moniak only has five walks? I mean he was drafted as a pure hitter with great eye and to me this is terrible less than 2 walks per 100AB should be ALARM bells all over the place. I think he needs to back down. I will say, I haven’t seen him hit as its tough from the couch, but 5 walks is not good at all. Should he back up a league or two and gain confidence?
The five BBs in 250+ plate appearances is hard to believe, but is just one of many ugly stats for Moniak. The 71 strike-outs, the lack of power (1 HR, 13 XBH), the .555 OPS, etc. It’s been re-hashed many times on this board and hopefully he can turn it around, but, yeah, it’s not good, especially for a 1:1 draft pick.
He’s not going back down. He’s going to have to take his lumps and hopefully get better.
MM probably repeats CLW in 2019, like Pujols did this year.
Sounds like the Orioles are going to want more than I’d be willing to give up for Manny Machado. That’s ok. Let Baltimore send him somewhere else. It will save the Phillies their 2019 second round draft pick when they sign Machado this winter.
Yeah, it’s fine by me if the Phillies don’t trade for MM. As stated before, the worst thing the Phillies could do is overpay for a rental. And I don’t buy that MM would be more likely to sign with the team he is traded to – the long term deal is going to be all about $$$.
And then CBS Sports indicates the Dodgers’ Verdugo was not offered.
Three more weeks of this!
…..and with the Phillies as the 4th best offer.
Dodgers; offer may have been different then that.
Phillies JPC could have been in the discussion.
Many variable offerings and many different interpretations
Is Cehe hurt back to back days off . He could be in a trade for Merrifield ? Merrifield a can play 3rd , 2nd ,1st and the OF . Just throwing it out there.
Fouled a ball off his foot; just getting some r&r I think.
Nevermind Cehe hurt his foot .
Nick Williams’ MLB Career So Far:
162 Games…574 PAs….23 HRs …85 RBIs…..268/330/460
Nick Williams closing that rightfield hole in that lineup.
I’ve always felt a lot of people haven’t been giving Nick enough credit. It’s probably better that way honestly — let’s him fly a little more under the radar. He’s got promising numbers over what amounts to his first full season in the bigs. As such a natural athlete, he a trikes me as a guy that is more likely to improve with repititions than most.
I think the some of the negativism surrounding Nick Williams is his higher than normal swing and miss rate and low walk rate….25% K rate / 8% BB rate, this year, and 28% K rate/ 6% BB rate, last season in the majors.
To his advantage, both metrics have slightly improved from last season.
His RF defense is passable.
Matt Klentak will eed to decide if he wants to go forward with Williams and Altherr out there or try to find an upgrade out there……and in that case Williams will probably have to be moved.
Romus His defense is okay, but Hopkins is bad or maybe I am being too negative. But he really isn’t a good or passable outfielder.
It’s not Hoskins’ fault, he’s a 1B. But yes, he’s not even a passable LF.
Williams’ defense is getting better.
Enyel De Los Santos will be making his major league debut Tuesday against the Mets. No corresponding move has been announced.
Most are expecting the Phils to move Florimon to 60-DL to open a spot for delos Santos.
Comments are closed.