Open Discussion: Week of December 24th

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate.  Happy Holiday Season to all.  Very little Phillies’ activity this week.

The Phillies announced their minor league coaching staffs and development team.

A couple recent transactions have been finalized.

A handful of DSL players were released.  There’s a nice holiday present.

Phuture Phillies’ Reader Top 30 will begin this week.

Organizational News and Changes

The free agent signings of Carlos Santana and Tommy Hunter were finally announced this week.  I think were current except for the official announcement on the signing of C Abrahan Gutierrez and the minor league signings of Erik Fryer and Pedro Beato.  Also, The Phillies have not officially announced their NRI assignments.

The Phillies announced their 2018 player development staffs.  A few guys were brought in from outside the organization.  Gary Jones will manage the IronPigs.  Wes Helms was added as a coach.  Rico Brogna will coach at Reading.  Ruben Gotay joins the Threshers as a coach.  Milver Reyes joins Lakewood as a pitching coach.  Christian Marrero joins Williamsport as a hitting coach.  Most other changes involved the movement of incumbent coaches to different teams or positions on the development staff.  The Phillies finally confirmed the creation of a second GCL team.  Nelson Prada moves up from a coach at Lakewood to the manager of the GCL West team.  The DSL teams got a couple new coaches, but also shuffled coaches between the teams.  Jesus Tiamo serves as a coach for DSL White after several seasons as a bullpen catcher with the major league club.  These assignments are included at the bottom of the organization’s rosters.

The Phillies released seven players from their DSL teams and one retired.  Released: DSL Red – RHP Ludovico Coveri, 1B Enny Rondon, and RHP Moises Nolasco.  Released: DSL White – 3B Leandro Medina, LHP Alfredo Benitez, RF Rusbel Vasquez, and RHP Carlos Salazar.  Retired: DSL White – SS Yeremy Nunez.

Winter Ball

Winter ball stats are available here.

The Liga de Béisbol Profesional Roberto Clemente will play a shortened, 21-game schedule with 4 teams beginning on January 6, 2018.

A few guys are still active in winter leagues.  The Columbian League regular season ends on December 30th.  Three teams make the first round of the playoffs, all our guys are on teams that will qualify.  Grenny Cumana and Luke Williams are among the league leaders in batting average and hits.  Jorge Alfaro is the third highest RBI total. Casey Brown has the third lowest ERA.

The Dominican League regular season ended on December 17th.  None of our guys appear to be active.

The Mexican League ends on December 29th.  None of our guys are appear to be active.

The Venezuelan League ends on December 29th.  It appears that Andres Blanco and Alexis Rivero are the only two players still active in the league.

Batters Last Date Team League AVG G AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB OBP SLG OPS
Cabral, Edgar Nov. 15 GDD AFL 0.298 14 47 2 14 0 4 3 13 0 0.353 0.340 0.693
Green, Zach Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0.258 18 62 10 16 2 6 4 20 0 0.324 0.419 0.743
Randolph, Cornelius Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0.239 19 71 10 17 0 8 7 20 2 0.308 0.324 0.632
Campbell, Derek Dec. 23 CAI COL 0.231 35 134 10 31 0 12 12 32 0 0.304 0.291 0.595
Martin, Kyle Dec. 16 CAI COL 0.259 29 112 15 29 2 11 15 29 1 0.354 0.384 0.738
Alfaro, Jorge Dec. 22 TOR COL 0.326 24 89 10 29 2 25 8 22 1 0.388 0.506 0.894
Cumana, Grenny Dec. 23 TOR COL 0.284 35 141 18 40 0 14 11 13 0 0.348 0.319 0.667
Gamboa, Arquimedes Nov. 25 TOR COL 0.214  17 56 2 12 0 6 7 15 1 0.302 0.268 0.570
Williams, Luke Dec. 23 TOR COL 0.285 35 137 19 39 3 15 22 34 6 0.389 0.372 0.761
Alvarez, Eliezer Dec. 13 ESC LIDOM 0.130 18 23 6 3 0 0 4 8 1 0.286 0.130 0.416
Moore, Logan Nov. 30 EST LIDOM 0.148 13 27 6 4 0 2 4 11 0 0.258 0.185 0.443
Quinn, Roman Oct. 22 TOR LIDOM 0.125 6 16 2 2 0 0 2 5 0 0.222 0.188 0.410
Walding, Mitch Nov. 12 MOC LMP 0.228 23 79 9 18 3 10 16 23 0 0.365 0.392 0.757
Alastre, Jesus Nov. 5 ARA LVBP 0.176 13 17 3 3 0 0 1 4 0 0.222 0.176 0.399
Gomez, Jose Dec. 2 LAG LVBP 0.179 22 56 5 10 1 5 2 5 2 0.220 0.232 0.452
Blanco, Andres Dec. 22 MAG LVBP 0.308 42 159 31 49 3 11 26 34 2 0.433 0.453 0.886
Tromp, Jiandido Oct. 24 MAG LVBP 0.185 11 27 2 5 0 2 5 8 1 0.313 0.222 0.535
Duran, Carlos Oct. 26 MAR LVBP 0.250 11 36 8 9 0 3 3 9 0 0.300 0.250 0.550
Rivas, Raul Nov. 8 MAR LVBP 0.250 12 36 6 9 0 1 0 6 0 0.250 0.250 0.500
Brito, Daniel Nov. 4 ZUL LVBP 0.273 16 44 3 12 0 4 4 11 0 0.333 0.318 0.652
Pitchers Last Date Team League ERA  GS  SV  IP  ER  HR  BB  SO  WHIP 
Bettencourt, Trevor Nov. 14 GDD AFL 10.13 0 1 8 0 1 8.0 10 9 0 3 9 1.63
Brown, Aaron Nov. 16 GDD AFL 3.00 0 0 3 0 0 3.0 5 1 0 2 2 2.33
Cleavinger, Garrett Nov. 16 GDD AFL 6.35 0 1 11 0 0 11.1 14 8 0 4 10 1.59
Garcia, Elniery Oct. 28 GDD AFL 5.79 1 2 4 4 0 14.0 15 9 1 4 13 1.36
Hammer, J.D. Nov. 15 GDD AFL 0.66 0 0 10 0 3 13.2 4 1 0 7 11 0.80
Campbell, Derek Nov. 25 CAI COL 9.00 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 1 1 1 1 0 2.00
Brown, Casey Dec. 15 TOR COL 2.29 2 2 8 8 0 39.1 41 10 0 12 25 1.35
Paulino, Felix Nov. 25 TOR COL 3.80 1 1 5 4 0 21.1 24 9 1 3 30 1.27
Casimiro, Ranfi Nov. 7 AGU LIDOM 0.00 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 1.00
Kilome, Franklyn Nov. 22 ESC LIDOM 7.64 0 4 6 6 0 17.2 26 15 3 7 17 1.87
Windle, Tom Nov. 7 ESC LIDOM 7.20 1 2 10 0 0 5.0 7 4 0 4 3 2.20
Garcia, Edgar Dec. 13 EST LIDOM 12.15 1 2 8 0 0 6.2 13 9 0 4 8 2.55
Dominguez, Seranthony Nov. 21 GIG LIDOM 4.91 1 0 6 0 0 7.1 7 4 1 7 8 1.91
Curtis, Zac Nov. 19 LIC LIDOM 4.05 4 2 16 0 0 13.1 13 6 0 6 17 1.43
Aris, Abdallah Dec. 1 ARA LVBP 9.00 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 2 1 1 0 0 0.20
Rivero, Alexis Dec. 22 ara/zul LVBP 6.19 0 2 17 0 2 16.0 17 11 2 4 17 1.31
Llovera, Mauricio Nov. 17 ORI LVBP 4.91 1 1 11 0 0 14.2 10 8 0 8 9 1.23

Spring Training

The Phillies’ spring training schedule has been released. Their first spring game is at home on Thursday, February 22 v. University of Tampa. Their last game is on Tuesday, March 27th v. Pittsburgh, also at home.  There are two open dates, March 6th and 15th.    

Book Release

The book to which I made a small contribution has been released on Amazon.  The author is Steve Potter whose player interviews I posted here during the season.

A Fan’s View is Steve’s second review of the Phillies’ minor league affiliates.  He has received contributions from several people who have watched the teams they wrote about including Tom Housenick (Lehigh Valley), Kirsten Karbach (Clearwater), Jay Floyd (Lakewood), and me (GCL).  Mark Wylie whose photos have appeared on Phuture Phillies has about a dozen and a half photos in the book, too.

Steve intends to donate any proceeds from this year’s book to Phillies Charities.  It’s available for $15.00 on Amazon. 

Steve also has a Page on Facebook.  He is the source for a lot of information I can’t always share here.  He sometimes is able to post news ahead of the beat writers.  

Reader Top 30 Poll

I will begin posting the polls this week.  A preliminary poll has identified 19 players to add to the poll.  I will add them in 6 player blocks and have them available by the time we reach the fifteenth poll.  My plan to run 5 per week may have to be altered.  I am taking part in Phantasy Week this year.  That may push back the end date by a few days.  But, I may have a few interesting articles as a result in my participation as a GM.  That package includes sessions with front office personnel.  I’m looking forward to that.

Updates to Phuture Phillies

I received no feedback on this so I went ahead and made some changes to the links in the right-hand column on Phuture Phillies.  I updated the links to the affiliates home pages, and will add Gulf Coast Phillies West when the page/URL is created by MiLB.

I added a couple links to Resources.  I don’t know why Baseball Reference wasn’t their in the first place.  I deleted several that are no longer producing current output or are no longer active sites.  I also edited a couple to reflect their current names.

And, I edited a couple Blogs to their new names and deleted several old sites.

If you have favorite that you think would be a valid addition, let me know via e-mail at prospectpoll@yahoo.com.

Key Dates:

  • January 9, 2018 – Salary arbitration filing deadline
  • January 12, 2018 – Salary arbitration figures exchanged
  • January 17-21, 2018 – Phillies Phantasy Camp in Clearwater, FL
  • January 29 – February 16, 2018 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix, Arizona
  • February 13, 2018 – earliest date for pitchers/catchers to report to Spring Training
  • February 18, 2018 – earliest date for all other players to report for full squad workouts
  • February 22, 2018 – Tentative date for the start of Grapefruit League games
  • March 29, 2018 – Opening Day for the 2018 season
  • March 29, 2018 – Phillies opening game in Atlanta
  • April 5, 2018 – Phillies home opener v. Miami
  • April 15, 2018 – Jackie Robinson Day
  • April 17-18, 2018 – Twins v. Indians at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan, PR
  • May 13, 2018 – Mother’s Day events, all host ballparks
  • June 4-6, 2018 – 2018 MLB Draft
  • June 17, 2018 – Father’s Day events, all host ballparks
  • July 13-17, 2018 – All-Star Week
  • July 17, 2018 – 89th All Star Game, at Nationals Park
  • August 19, 2018 – Phillies v. Mets in the Little League Classic in Williamsport.
  • December 10-13, 2018 – Winter Meetings in Las Vegas, Nevada

Off Season Transactions (recently reported transactions in bold): (40-man stands at 40)

  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies Red released 1B Enny Rondon
  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies Red released RHP Ludovico Coveri
  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies White released 3B Leandro Medina
  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies White released LHP Alfredo Benitez
  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies White released RF Rusbel Vasquez
  • 12/20 – DSL Phillies White released RHP Carlos Salazar
  • 12/20 – SS Yeremy Nunez retired
  • 12/19 – DSL Phillies Red released RHP Moises Nolasco
  • 12/20 – Phillies signed free agent 1B Carlos Santana (lose 2nd round pick and $500K international bonus money)
  • 12/15 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Tommy Hunter
  • 12/15 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Pat Neshek
  • 12/15 – Phillies traded SS Freddy Galvis to San Diego for RHP Enyel De Los Santos
  • 12/14 – Phillies traded RHP Nick Burdi to Pittsburgh Pirates for Future Considerations ($500K international bonus money)
  • 12/14 – Phillies claimed RHP Nick Burdi off waivers from Chattanooga Lookouts
  • 12/11 – Mariners claimed CF Cameron Perkins off waivers from Philadelphia
  • 12/11 – Pirates claimed SS Engelb Vielma off waivers from Philadelphia
  • Phillies placed Cameron Perkins and Engelb Vielma on outright waivers.
  • Phillies signed FA catcher Abrahan Gutierrez.
  • 11/27 – Phillies sent Alberto Tirado outright to Lehigh Valley
  • 11/27 – Phillies sent Mark Appel outright to Lehigh Valley
  • 11/20 – Phillies claimed SS Engelb Vielma off waivers from San Francisco Giants
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Franklyn Kilome from Lehigh Valley
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Seranthony Dominguez from Clearwater
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Ranger Suarez from Clearwater
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Jose Taveras from Reading
  • 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Mark Appel for assignment
  • 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Alberto Tirado for assignment
  • 11/20 – Phillies sent LHP Elniery Garcia outright to Lehigh Valley
  • 11/14 – Williamsport Crosscutters released CF Juan Luis
  • 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
  • 11/6 – CF Herlis Rodriguez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Brock Stassi elected free agency
  • 11/6 – C Nick Rickles elected free agency
  • 11/6 – LHP Cesar Ramos elected free agency
  • 11/6 – SHP Pat Venditte elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Michael Mariot elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 3B Hector Gomez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – SS Angelo Mora elected free agency
  • 11/6 – LF Christian Marrero elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Colton Murray elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Miguel Nunez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Harold Martinez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – C Chace Numata elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Wilson Garcia elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
  • 11/6 – CF Pedro Florimon elected free agency
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Vince Velasquez from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Jerad Eickhoff from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Zach Eflin from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies sent RHP Jesen Therrien outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 11/6 – Phillies sent CF Pedro Florimon outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 11/2 – RF Hyun Soo Kim elected free agency
  • 11/2 – LF Daniel Nava elected free agency
  • 11/2 – 3B Andres Blanco elected free agency
  • 11/2 – RHP Clay Buchholz elected free agency
  • 11/2 – Phillies activated RHP Jesen Therrien from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/2 – Phillies activated CF Pedro Florimon from the 60-day disabled list
  • 10/30-11/6 – Logan Moore re-signed with the Phillies
  • 9/30-10/13 – Ranfi Casimiro re-signed with the Phillies
  • 10/13 – Pedro Beato elected free agency
  • 10/5 – Kevin Segrist elected free agency
  • 10/5 – Ty Kelly elected free agency
  • 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent LHP Kevin Siegrist outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent 2B Ty Kelly outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 9/16-29 – Mitch Walding re-signed with the Phillies
  • The organization’s rosters are up to date.
  • The organization’s injury list retains the injuries at the end of the 2017 season.  All are expected to be okay by the start of spring training.
  • The organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list is as accurate as I can make it.

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

54 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of December 24th

  1. Merry Christmas everyone. Hope you all have a safe and happy holiday. And I echo Bellman’s thanks to Jim for making this site a must stop for any Phillie fan…

  2. I love this site, and salute you for your hard work. I’m an old man that has followed baseball since the fifties. At first, I was skeptical of the new analytics movement, but I’ve come to realize their importance in the game today. Over the last several decades many of my friends have joined fantasy leagues in football and baseball. I looked into it, and decided that it wasn’t for me. How could I ever justify rooting for the Phillies, but hoping that a player on the other team has a big day? To each their own, and I’m certainly ok with fantasy sports, but it has had an effect on the fans.
    The fans select their teams, and suddenly, many feel that they could be doing a better job than Klentak. They don’t attend the meetings, or join in on Matt’s phone calls, but somehow they have a better grasp on the team than Klentak.
    We, as fans need to blend the past and present technologies. Middleton, MacPhail, and Klentak all know that the greatest computer on Earth will never measure a players Heart and Desire.
    I hope that everyone out there has a Happy Holiday, and that we all pledge to respectfully disagree with each other in the New Year.

    1. Mike,

      Great post in keeping with the spirit of the season and the spirit of this website.

      Heart and desire might be the new name for Scott Kingery, somebody who had to send videos to college coaches just to finally get a non-scholarship invitation, and now he’s on the doorstep of red pin stripes.

      1. I cringe when I hear Kingery’s name being kicked about in trade talks. He’s so much more than another piece on a chessboard.

  3. Guys,

    I know it’s only winter league and small sample size, but Luke Williams is putting up some good numbers.

  4. Jim, thanks for all your efforts you put into this site. By far my favorite, and usually my first stop every morning. Happy Holidays!

  5. What does everyone want / think our bench will look like in 2018? In my mind Joseph is all ready gone. I don’t see a spot for a RH power hitting, strictly 1st baseman. Obviously an 8 man pen means a 4 man bench. Technically a 3 man bench because one of those spots is must be a catcher. If Rupp is traded I wouldn’t be opposed to signing an AJ Ellis or someone like him & carrying 3 catchers. I’d very rarely ever start the 3rd guy but by carring 3 catchers it would allow Knapp & Alfaro to be used more to PH. If our outfield stays as currently constructed I’d rather not have a guy on the bench that is strictly an outfielder because I believe those guys need to play as much as possible. A utility player like Florimon or Valentin is also a certainty. I highly doubt they’ll do my 3 catcher idea, so our bench will look mostly likely look like

    Catcher – Rupp RH or Knapp S
    Outfielder – Altherr RH
    Utility – Florimon S or Valentin S

    I’d rather they not carry 2 light hitting UT players but it’s a possibility. I’d prefer they find a veteran INF (non 1b) LH bat with some pop

    A quick glance at the available free agents & there’s really nothing very enticing:

    Stephen Drew
    Danny Espinosa
    Conor Gillaspie
    Chase Utley
    Ryan Goins

    I was originally hoping to get Chase Headley in a salary dump. Is there anyone else out there that you think could be a possibility? Prado is surely available but he’s RH. Ben Zobrist is owed a ton of money & has two years remaining. Chicago would have to willing to pay a very hefty portion of his salary or give up quality prospects for me to bite on him.

    Thoughts on Rupp gone / sign AJ Ellis so Knapp/Alfaro can PH more often?
    Would you go with Florimon & Valetin or would you also like to find LH bat?

  6. Reports had the Cubs offering infielder Addison Russell, outfielder Albert Almora, and left-hander Mike Montgomery for Manny Machado.
    I wonder what the Phillies had on the table…if anything at all.

        1. I have found Cafardo to be among the most unreliable reporters. Like all Boston hacks, he panders to the Boston fans. I need to hear his stuff from one of the national guys like Heyman or Rosenthal to substantiate. And when I hear it from them, it is before Cafardo has it. It seems he doesn’t get anything before the national guys.

    1. That offer is very light. There’s no way I pull the trigger on that offer if I’m the Orioles. They will certainly do better than that at the trade deadline if Machado is healthy and having a typical season.

  7. I consider Theo Epstein to be one of the best team Presidents/GMs around. I can’t believe that was a genuine offer from the Cubs without an extension window for MM. That is light for MM with an extension and way too much for him without one.

    1. That apparently was the issue between great offers and moderate offers…..that is, the 72-hour window to negotiate with Machado and his agent on a LTC.
      Baltimore was not allowing that…..so in effect, they were not going to get many outstanding offers for a one year rental of Machado.
      Why would a GM give up 3 or 4 outstanding prospects for a temporary player with no guarantee he would resign.

  8. If I’m the Phillies (without a 72-hour negotiation period with MM), I offer the O’s Franco, Velasquez, and any three other pitchers in the organization aside from Nola and Sixto, along with the latitude to take on extra salary. Franco and VV are high risk, high ceiling guys, reasonable for one year of Manny and the risk of not being able to re-sign him. Duquette has little leverage and whatever he still has is dwindling fast. From their depth and payroll flexibility, there’s no reason why they can’t deal in the “one year only” scenario.

    Otherwise? I wait for Machado to turn free agent after ’18. I ain’t giving up Jetpax or JPC or Sixto unless I’m locking MM up from 5 years (with the probable opt out) up to 12 years.

    1. Why? There’s no reason to give up all those prospects. They still wouldn’t win the series and he won’t sign before FA so there’s NO reason to do it.

        1. 1- Any other team that would acquire MM by trade would most likely be in a position to re-sign him which raises the chances of them actually doing so. Baltimore has virtually NO shot at extending him.

          2 – The 2 MLB players I’m offering are IMO high risk talents which justify the move.

          3 – Having Machado even for one year improves our prospects of winning more games in ’18 while though not necessarily making us a contender, should make us more attractive to next year’s FAs.

          1. 1 – Any team that acquires MM isn’t in any special position to sign him after the 2018 season. It’s unlikely that he’s going to love it so much that he wants to stay without testing the market.

            2 – They MLB players mentioned are certainly high risk players but they are also high reward players. Would be a real failure if either of them become solid players. As for the 3 pitchers that would also be included, that covers many very good arms beyond Nola and Sixto. You’re talking about 3 top-10/top-15 players from a good farm system..

            3 – Having Machado for one year certainly improves the prospects of winning games in 2018 but will mean nothing to 2019 FAs when he’s leaving.

            The only possible reason for trying to trade for Machado in 2018 without a negotiating window is that they can try to extend him and when he confirms that he’s not interested, they then turn around at the trade deadline and move him to try to replace what they traded away to get him..

            1. “3 – Having Machado for one year certainly improves the prospects of winning games in 2018 but will mean nothing to 2019 FAs when he’s leaving.”……only net results in the 31st or 32nd pick in the 2019 draft.
              Not worth the effort in a trade without him signing.

              People claim Os will get more for him at the deadline in July…..I do not see it that way…..first, the market is dwindled to just a handful of teams, second, look at Darvish as a prime example…the Os will get possibly one premier prospect and maybe a secondary prospect…and two-month rentals do not get compensation from the acquiring team when the player goes free agent, and no QO is allowed to be offered.

            2. I agree with you Romus that his value is higher now than it will be at the trade deadline if for no other reason than because he cannot be offered a QO after the mid-season trade.

              My point in the response was that moving him at the deadline would be the only way to try to recoup some of the talent traded to get him. I do not think they would get a better deal..

            3. 3up……yeah, in July, that will be the Os last opportunity to get any value of significance for him..
              In hindsight, bringing Manny up at age 19 may have been some faulty ‘crystal-ball’ reasoning on the Os management part.
              But then again In 2012, the team made the playoffs for the first time since 1997. Then In 2014, with Manny only being 21-years old, the Orioles won the AL- East with 96 wins and made it to the ALCS. Many people attribute the success of the Orioles to the management of Buck Showalter and Duquette.

      1. You know, I thought I was a curmudgeon. You can post other comments besides those protesting somebody’s nickname. If he turns out to be what many now think, you might have to get used to it.

  9. Very good piece by David Murphy laying out possibilities for the outfield situation. In the end, he suggests that Nick Williams might be the most viable trade piece in a package to acquire a starting pitcher. But also points out that if all 4 OFs – Hoskins, Altherr, Herrera and Williams – equally shared 162 games, they’d each play 121, and that’s before you factor in Santana’s days off and the 10 road games vs AL clubs where a DH will be used. The Cubs, Cards and Brewers all had 4 OFs last season who accumulated well over 400 PAs. Something to consider.

    Good read by Murphy who used two factors -defensive liability and reliability – to evaluate each player’s feasibility in CF. He also used the gap between ‘what would we get in return’ and ‘what do we lose’ in trading each player.

      1. 8mark…so David Murphy thinks Nick Williams would bring back a better starting pitcher/return value than Doobie Herrera?….that is interesting.
        IMO, the Phillies at this point do not need anymore mid-to-bottom rotation arms….they need a top of the rotation arm.
        And unless they go ahead and sign a FA like a Darvish, or hopefully not an Arrieta, what would be the sense in trading for another back end arm.
        All Nick Wiliams at his point is potential off a very good rookie year…and that is what you will get in return…potential pitching.

        1. Romus, I actually don’t agree with Murphy that Williams would bring back a better arm than Doobie. And you know I’m on board with trading the latter. The idea of a 4-man OF, however, has merit. Bottom line – Klentak MUST acquire a very good SP to begin the season.

          1. 8mark….agree , Klentak needs to get that other quality starter from somewhere.
            And as for the OF situation……if Quinn stays healthy, and Cozens and/or Pullin both progress at the palte with the ‘Pigs..then it gets more crowded out there by the second half of the season..

    1. I think this is like any Hernandez trade. no reason at this point to give away talent. plenty of opportunity for completion and for people to play. The goal should be trying to apply organization depth ( an extra OF like Williams , an extra 2b like Hernandez, redundancy in the minor leagues) to try to get top of the rotation or potential top of the rotation starting pitching

      1. the question is “can you get the type of pitching we are looking for with a package of Williams, hernandez, knapp, moniak , minor league starter other than sanchez. I look at those guys as tradable commodities?”

      1. Quinn is such a wildcard. He would be a great addition either here or as a trade chip but has to show he can stay healthy. I see him as a 4th OF on the major league team this year ( assuming we trade one of Herrera, Williams or Alther)

        1. I agree. by reports, Kingery is plus defense at 2b. Let him settle in there for a long productive career. Its up to Gm to find a way to get value out of Hernandez. that’s his job.

        2. 8mark,

          I agree on keeping Kingery at 2B. Mention the outfield only because it sounds like a plausible possibility if Odubel is traded. Even then, I doubt they do it.

  10. For the records, is it me or is this the slowest trade and free agent market ever?
    its January and almost all the major free agents except a run on relief pitchers are still on the market and the only a handful of trades.
    why do people think the market is so slow/
    I have a theory that we are seeing fewer transactions because so few teams are actually trying to win in 2018.
    there are maybe 10 teams or so looking to make a real run at playoffs in 2018
    otherwise you have teams in a rebuild like us or teams starting a rebuild like Detroit, tampa, KC.
    there are only so many players that can go to teams trying to add veteran talent to win in 2018

    1. Largest contract so far this off season over $40M…..you guessed it…Phillies and Matt Klentak to Carlos Santana. Go figure.
      The Stanton/Ohtani/Machado circus events really slowed things down in December….except for the dozen or so 2-year contract signings of relief pitchers.

    2. I think more and more clubs highly value their own young top talent and are therefore reluctant to trade them. This is why I believe the market has become so slow to develop. A lot of experts thought it was because of Stanton and Ohtani. Guess not.

      1. It is not trades that are the main focus of evidenced of the slow market…it is the lack of free agent signings.
        From pitchers like Darvish, Arrieta, Cobb, Lackey, miley and Lynn to big bats like JD Martinez, Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain, Frazier, Holliiday, Logan Morrison, CarGo and Jay Bruce.
        Even our boy Jeremy Hellickson is still out there.

  11. I don’t know that it is a question of competing in 2018, I think it is the FA class after next season that has a lot of teams not spending crazy $ this year. When there are rumors that the ask for Arrieta was 6 years and $160M, I can understand why no one wants to sign him. The teams with controllable, young SP with high ceilings, are asking for an awful lot, so those moves haven’t been made because most GMs are from the same school now, and don’t want to over pay. There is a good chance that 2 guys get $400M, or close to it, contracts next year, so a lot of teams are saving for that run.

  12. HOPES & DREAMS DEPT:

    Imagine the following opening day roster and all hail Matt Klentak!
    (Could he make it happen…??)

    Catchers(3) – Alfaro, Knapp(S), Fryer (or some other vet)
    Infielders(5) – Santana(S), Kingery*, Crawford(L), Machado**, Florimon(S) (or Valentin)
    Outfielders(4) – Hoskins, Altherr, Williams(L), Quinn(S)

    Rotation(5) – Darvish (or Arrieta or Lynn), Nola, Duffy(L), Eickhoff, Pivetta
    Bullpen(8) – Neris(9), Hunter(8), Neshek(7), Morgan(L), Milner(L), Arano, Ramos, Garcia

    Obviously traded – Herrera, Hernandez, Velasquez, Franco, Rupp, TJ (maybe DFAd?)
    And please don’t ask me to specify who was traded for whom other then the big deals were with KC and Baltimore. I’m lazy, I admit it. (Where’s Hinkie? Let him do the hard work.)

    *Someone posted a good point earlier that if the Phillies are that high on Kingery, they’re likely to want to extend him early (perhaps after his 2nd year) which would make his arb status irrelevant, so then why not promote him? (Though I can see why he could use more seasoning in AAA.)

    **”Insiders” in Baltimore insist that Duquette and the O’s have no hard deadline to move on trading MM. Not suggesting it’s likely that we’ll get him (remember – this is a dream sequence) but I believe it’s more likely that he still will be traded. Baltimore has no sound reason not to.

    Anyway, this would make my 2018 a very happy new year.
    As things stand currently, Fangraphs projects the Phillies to win 78 games. This roster is worth 83-85 (IMO). Let’s roll!!!

  13. Condolences and deepest sympathy to former PhuturePhillies owner and writer Matt Winkelman on the recent passing of his mother.

  14. On Machado – I’ve been one of the early and biggest Machado to Philly drum beaters, but I no longer see the Phils trading for Machado this season. Any team who will trade for Machado will surrender good players and assets, and the FA is the best opportunity for Machado to get that live changing contract so he will not miss that chance. The Phils will go the FA way to acquire Machado since they can afford to sign another big FA and lure both FA’s to sign.

    On Williams – he will not be fetch the best return – that’s Doobie. But a Williams + Cesar package (and some prospects) might bring a Duffy-type or a #2/#3 type the most.

    On FA signings – although McPhail already said that they will not pay for past performance, thus, not paying big $$ to FAs, I can see the Phils making a play to the FAs that will be significantly discounted.n
    On Yelich and Reamulto – every GM knows that Jeter will trade both sooner that later and Klentak will have Jeter’s cellphone # in his favorites. He will strike to acquire one or both with a combination of top prospects and absorption of bad contracts. Hot start from Alfaro, Randolph, Moniak, Kilome, Medina might find themselves in a trade package that will send them to the south beach.

    On Klentak – Klentak is Colangelo and Colangelo is Klentak. Both GMs will only take low to moderate type of risks particularly in the international and trade market. Klentak’s main play is next year’s FA class and hope that somebody from the farm will rise.

    1. Funny you mention Yelich and Realmuto. Just minutes ago MLBTR sited multiple reports that Miami is actively listening to offers for both. There’s something there for Klentak to get creative.

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