2017 Draft Discussion: Day Two

Here’s the thread to continue talking about the 2017 First Year Player Draft.

With the 1:8 pick, the Phillies selected Adam Haseley, UVA – a 6’1, 185 lb, junior outfielder.  He turned 21 in April.  The following is from Baseball America – 

“Haseley has a winner’s pedigree, having helped Orlando’s First Academy to a 2014 NHSI title, then keying Virginia’s 2015 College World Series championship with a five-inning start in the CWS Finals. Haseley was considered a bit more of a prospect on the mound out of high school but prefers hitting and has hit his way into the first round as a junior, breaking out with more power than he’s ever shown before. Scouts still peg him as an average power hitter and knock his rotational swing, but his performance has demonstrated improved feel for hitting and an ability to make his average power play. He ranked among the national leaders in slugging, batting, hits and total bases in early May. An above-average hitter, Haseley has shown the ability to hit the ball out to all fields, controls the strike zone and has an advanced approach. He hits plenty of line drives but also has learned to loft the ball, producing more home runs. He’s also an above-average runner underway who grades out as an average defender in center field. Haseley could stick there as a pro but may slide to a corner, where his average, accurate arm could tick up as he gives up pitching. He’s an upper-80s lefthander and tremendous competitor on the mound who is ready to stop pulling double-duty and focus on hitting. Physically and in his overall game, Haseley fits a similar profile as former Expos outfielder Brad Wilkerson..”

Comments on players selected in the entire first round can be read on BA’s Draft Tracker.

With the 45th pick they selected Spencer Howard, Cal Poly – San Luis Obispo – a 6’3, 210 lb,  junior RHP.  He turns 21 the end of July.

Howard is ranked as the 99th prospect by MLB and the 137th by BA.  BA’s Hudson Belinsky ranked him as the 49th best RHP in the draft in a June 12th article.

The BA staff had him at 148 overall back on May 4th.  In February, he ranked as the 8th best prospect in the Big West Conference.

Here’s a local story by KSBY San Luis Obispo News on Howard’s selection.  The key points –

  • Howard, named a second-team All-American by Collegiate Baseball Newspaper last week, finished second in the Big West with his 2.05 ERA and his eight wins also are No. 2. Howard struck out 97 batters, third in the conference, over 87 2/3 innings, averaging nearly 10 strikeouts per nine-inning game.
  • Nationally, Howard was No. 23 in ERA, No. 71 in WHiP (1.08), No. 49 in victories, No. 58 in strikeouts and No. 91 in strikeouts per nine innings.
  • A first-team All-Big West selection this spring and a graduate of Templeton High School, Howard won his last five starts and became the first Mustang starter since Kyle Anderson in 2012 to finish the year with just one loss. Last week, he earned the team’s Mike Krukow Outstanding Pitcher award.
  • Though he is a sophomore, Howard was eligible for the draft because he red-shirted the 2015 season and was a third-year member of the Mustangs this spring.

The Phillies’ selections are being tracked in our 2017 Draft Tracker.

The draft continues today and includes Rounds 3-10.  Coverage will start at 1:00 PM ET, live on MLB.com.  Preview show starts at 12:30 PM ET.

Rounds 11-40 will conclude on Wednesday on MLB.com with the 11th round starting at noon.

The draft tracker and the daily draft discussions will be included under “2017 Draft Discussions and Picks” selection on the menu under “The Draft”.

I have seen the speculation on where Haseley will start his Phillies career.  I would hasten to point out that Scott Kingery and Kyle Martin spent a week in Clearwater at the Complex after they signed on June 16, 2015,  working out separate from the GCL team. They were both assigned to Lakewood on June 25, 2015.  


203 thoughts on “2017 Draft Discussion: Day Two

  1. The Brad Wilkerson comp seems a little misguided as Wilk had more power, and finished his career with a BA under .250. Did have a good eye, though, with a career .350 OBP.

    Completely random, but Wilk in a season once hit 32 HR and had only 67 RBI…seems almost impossible to do. Then again, Ron Gant for the 2000 Phillies hit 26 HR and only had 54 RBI. Ozzie Smith once had 75 RBI with 0 HR!

  2. As much as we’re all generally unimpressed with the Haseley pick, he still slots rather high in the prospect rankings. Kingery, Hoskins (who’s fallen off recently), Williams….???

    I can’t remember feeling this down on our farm in recent memory. Affiliate teams are winning but it seems the non-prospects are the most productive of late.

    1. Generally unimpressed? Not me. The kid went where most scouts had him. From all I’ve read he sounds like a player. Sure beats the “toolsy” Hewitt’s, Greene’s, etc. of past drafts.

      1. 2015 .250 68 – 68 276 56 69 11 3 1 19 89 .322 39 7 53 6 .355 2 5 5 – 6
        2016 .304 60 – 60 247 61 75 19 6 6 37 124 .502 28 3 29 2 .377 3 4 3 – 4
        2017 .390 58 – 58 223 68 87 16 1 Tell me how your impressed with a kid in college who put up these numbers????? 276 at bats one homerun in 15 with a 250 average 6 homeruns in 16 and one good year this year. I am not impressed especially reading he has a mechanic swing. He was taken too high. But it was a bad draft selection not that High end talent like some years. This kid is another 250 hitter with 15 homerun power if he ever makes it. The only thing that is really good for him is his obp

        1. You’re the best roccom

          It’s been at least 5 years you’ve been posting on here and some days I still think you’re a parody account and someone is playing a big, elaborate joke on the rest of us….

          1. ty Tommy I AM like trump always right but people cant accept it. fFunny how you guys especially guys like vIAGAIN Who never play the game and put up numbers and all the sheldons on here think he knows baseball funny. I am really proud of watching the players, And by the way the numbers on our first pick dont take in acccount how bad he played in wooden bat league. Remember how wrong you guys were on dom brown. and williams will be the other one. So hate all you want i know the game. ty

        2. I get it. Who was your selection? Not sure there was a guy we couldn’t poke holes in.

          1. If it were up to me, but it ain’t, I would have drafted Shane Baz as Huntingdon and the Prates selected.
            Have to assume Haseley will be highly regarded by the Phillies, thus, his trajectory will be similar to Conforto/Benintendi…two like players to Haseley and drafted in the relatively same spot.
            So Haseley should make his MLB debut August 2018…..14 months after being drafted as those two did.
            Now…logistically….what becomes of Quinn, Williams and Cozens…..and then Herrera and Altherr….all also in the 2018 Phillies OF picture at some point.
            Trading any of them now them becomes difficult, and low returns are offered, as the Red Sox experienced 3/4 years ago with their OF surplus.
            Klentak is following the footsteps of Cherington….slow to move players, and wanting to horde prospects for that rainy day.
            Baseball does not work that way.

            1. Agreed, that’s why I think they should start by promoting Williams. They have to make some decisions.

    2. I like Haseley in that he fits what Almaraz described as being a “ballplayer”. Hopefully he’ll generate enough power since he projects to be a corner guy. Guess he’ll man LF next to Moniak in Lakewood. My comment above about “generally unimpressed” has more to do with who was available than Haseley himself.

    3. I don’t have a issue with Haseley overall and expect he will be a solid player. I just think the new FO needs to be more aggressive looking for top end talent vs. solid player.

  3. I’m just seeing too much “average” and not enough “plus” in Haseley”s scouting report. With Beck and Smith gone I would have preferred Baez.

    1. I’m kind of glad we didn’t take Beck after seeing his interview on MLB network I didn’t come away with a really good feeling about him.

      I would have gone Baz or Rogers…

  4. I really wanted Adell but I knew they wanted a college bat after two years of high school bats, with neither one producing. It’s ok, Adell went to the Angels. He’ll be ready to replace Trout by the time he leaves to join the Phillies.
    I knew they would go college pitcher in round 2. They obviously liked Howard more than others but I’ll trust them on this pick for now. Both kids will go to Lakewood and play so we’ll get a feel for them quickly.

    1. Adell would have been Ruben Amaros wet dream.
      All tools except, you know the hit one.

  5. What elite tool did Utley have when he was drafted? I’d like to see his scouting report. I’m not saying Haseley is Utley but there is something to be said for being a “gamer and a winner” Look at the Phillies now. Franco and Hererra have a bunch of talent but are they “gamers and winners”? I’m fine with the pick. Baz would have been interesting at 8 but I think Haseley is a good pick here

      1. Yes, but Utley had a bunch of question marks too – including power (they said he might hit 15 homers) and fielding. If you get a player that works hard and is invested, there’s a much greater chance he achieves his known potential and even raises his ceiling. But Utley had the kind of hit tool and plate discipline that allowed his other tools play up and that’s why I like this pick. This guy has very strong baseball skills and I’m glad to see us stock up on players like that.

        As I said, I pretty much like the way Johnny A. evaluates and drafts hitters. What I’d like to see are some HS arms for them to develop – someone who is raw now but projects down the line to be a true power arm. We essetially stopped drafting those guys when Johnny A was hired. I get not wanting to fill your draft class with these guys, but it helps to get a guy like Kenny Giles in the 7th round every now and then.

        1. Utley was a generational talent that something that franchises are lucky to see once every 50 years rather than the rule of thumb on player development.

        2. Could’ve had Baz but oh well I guess. And the point I think you both are trying to make is that elite tools matter less than one’s attitude and grit. Those are both important attributes, but, as you yourself said, they go a whole lot further when paired with elite tools. Utley, even with all his deficiencies starting out, was always an elite hitter. Haseley, who has less obvious deficiencies, doesn’t have one standout tool. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it just leaves a sort of “meh” taste in your mouth as a fan of an organization lacking in players with that “it” factor (Rollins had “it”, Utley had “it”, Howard had “it”, Hamels had “it”, Ruiz eventually had “it”).

  6. We’ve often written that the last regime went with toolsy players and they didn’t have enough regard for plate discipline. Haseley has hit tool and strong plate discipline. (And is a gamer/winner!) He’s not ‘projected’ for big power but he had a very strong season and was concensus Top 10 pick for most of spring. While I would have preferred the higher upside of Baz (among those left on the board) I can understand picking Haseley.

    We also often write that the Phillies go with the ‘safe pick’. This is true and could even be said of Haseley (vs. Baz or Adell for example). However, if that’s our criticism, then we should love this pick of Spencer Howard. It screams BOLD! At 2.45 it was waaaay ahead of rankings (BA 137, MLB 99). It’s either an entirely foolish pick, OR it is a brilliant pick because our scouts saw something more than most others did.
    Per Almaraz, his fastball is “one of the best in the country. Not measuring velocity, but measuring the action, the deception, and the ability to use it.” He added, “Our west coast supervisor Darrell Conner …was all over this kid. This kid just kept getting better, and better, and better. We felt to get him that we were going to have to take him where we took him. Starting pitching is hard to come by. This was one of the few guys in the draft that we felt had a chance to be a front-line guy.”
    He works very hard. His demeanor is focused, laid back. (that description reminds me of Hamels. Heck, they’re both CA kids.)

    We want the FO to take a risk. We want someone with TOR potential. …Well, maybe Spencer Howard is exactly what we’ve been asking for!

    1. I’m not sure taking a college kid who is well known commodity is what I refer to as risk but I see your point.
      My opinion of risk is find a guy who is young who has at least one plus plus tool and build around it. Like 70 fastball or 70 something somewhere.
      Not find a guy with a bunch of average tools and hope they all tic up to be above average so then you have a good player.

      1. SF,

        As I mentioned elsewhere, Haseley recently made the transition from pitching to pure hitter. Maybe he’s not such a well-known commodity given his short history as hitter only.

        1. SWFL,
          I was thinking more about Howard not being a risk, but a reach instead. But your argument definitely holds some weight and makes think a little

    2. How did Howard become a BOLD pick and a risk?!? He can be a smart pick but not a BOLD pick. BOLD picks means that you are betting on ceiling in regardless of high risks and high probability of failure. Howard is not high risk – he is a prototypical safe pick thus risk-averse ergo not BOLD. His ceiling is can probably go higher thru development which will can score a success for the scouting team.

      Howard was ranked lowered because he currently doesn’t have tools to have a higher ceiling. Howard is either a smart (if the scouting is right) or wasted pick (if scouting is wrong) but it is not a BOLD pick.

    3. A reach for a player that was ranked way lower than he was chosen is just that, a reach. It is not a risk, as in high risk high reward. It’s simply dumb. And the usual caveat applies. I hope this kid proves to be a good major leaguer. However, track record is important and this front office/Almaraz has done little to distinguish himself as smart enough or good enough to outsmart all the other teams who are picking the players we actually wanted the Phillies to pick.

      The Phillies literally have the worst track record in major league baseball by a lot over more than a decade when it comes to drafting major league talent. Not much to brag about with the new guys either. Maybe this wasn’t a very strong draft, but that doesn’t explain Mickey Moniak and Cornelius Randolph as picks in the last few drafts. I’d love them to find a Cole Hamels again, but I think this front office/scouting staff would never take that “risk.” See? That’s what risk is. The kid broke his arm and they drafted him anyway.

    4. One things we see in Haseley is a guy who hasn’t had much experiencing focusing on being at hitter. When he got the chance this year, he blossomed. Maybe that says something about his potential.

  7. Johnny A is stocking up on leftfielders with no power (Robinson 2 years ago and now Haseley)

    1. Why do you assume he’s a LF? He was a CF in college and said to be able to stick in CF in the majors. And if they move him off of CF eventually, wouldn’t RF be the logical next stop? Why would they dump him in LF?

      And who is Robinson? And who are all these other LF’s with no power he is stocking up on?

      1. I think he means Randolph (who is a left fielder) and Moniak (who is a center fielder).

        Randolph is still developing and may turn out not to be such a good pick.

        Moniak is young, growing into his body and doing about one would expect in A ball as a 19 year old. We need to wait 2 or 3 years to see how he develops before we judge this trade.

        Haseley is quite a bit older. Expect him to start at Lakewood this year and probably move to Clearwater to start next year. He will probably be on the promotion path that Kingery was on, assuming he plays well.

        I think people are underrating this pick – if he hits for a good average, has a strong OBP and slightly above average power, he could be a heck of a player.

        1. The mechanical swing scares me, and it should have caused the Phillies to worry aswell
          It’s hard to change a swing after 21 years of a bad habit.

          1. Kingery did it in half a season so I don’t think it’s that hard to do if you put your mind to it.

            One positive on the power is that the BB Core bats they use sap a lot power.

            And I guess at the end of the day when it is time to strike on some trades you need a bunch of kids looking like they are something special in the minors (currency) to land a Chris Sale or Roy Halladay when the time is right.

            1. It can be done but not by everyone.
              I didn’t know Kingery totally changed his swing, I thought it was a minor adjustment, huh.
              I just think it’s weird that you spend a first round pick on a guy who you are almost certain will need a major overhaul.
              I would have like to seen louder tools elsewhere, to make up for the shortcoming.
              He is now my guy however and I hope he does well and proves my doubts were foolish.

        2. The problem with that statement is he will be playing with Moniak, so where does he play
          No power right fielder or is he now a left fielder
          Or do you push him ahead of Moniak

  8. If Haseley ends up as a corner OF he will be above average speed and defense. He can play CF but the Phils do have better speed and defense that can play there – actually top notch speed and defense. The pick may not be a Wow, but it is a really good pick.

  9. Moniak will play CF over Haseley if the latter is assigned to Lakewood. Haseley is a much different ball player than your average Larry Greene Jr., Zach Collier or Anthony Hewitt. Haseley brings a little bit of everything to the table. Yes, Haseley is never going to develop power; however, he’s also going to be more than a .250 hitter. If Haseley reaches his ceiling, we’re talking a .300 lead off hitter with 10-15 jacks, 25-30 doubles and 25-30 steals per season. Haseley is also an elite defender and his route efficiency proves that. Haseley is not the biggest name on the docket because his production developed late, making some observers believe he’s a fluke. Multiple scouts reported they preferred Haseley over teammate Pavin Smith and last year’s first rounder Matt Thaiss. It might seem like a confusing pick now, but think a Brett Gardner when assessing Haseley. I like the pick because it saves the Phillies money and you get a gamer.

    1. I’m not entirely sure it’ll save the team a ton of money. He went about where he was projected to go. I don’t see the agent giving the Phillies that much of a discount.

      1. I don’t see much of a discount, but I guarantee the Phillies had a deal worked out previously where they saved money. They wouldn’t select a college guy, otherwise.

    2. Could we be looking at a heyday Shin Soo Choo comp for Hasely with better defense?

    3. Don’t think he has the speed to be a 25-30 steal guy and he’s not an elite defender. By the scouting reports I read, he’s considered to be a solid-average defensive CF but is projected to be able to stay there.

      You are correct that if he hits his ceiling he’s a good, everyday player. If he doesn’t hit the ceiling, he’s another guy in the OF….

    4. I don’t hate the Haseley pick and can understand why the Phillies did it. I definitely like Haseley better than someone like Adell, who has loud tools but could have bat-on-ball contact issues. Been there, done that.

      However, it’s just hard for me to get real excited about Brett Gardner comparisons for a guy who was selected at 1:8. If Haseley was drafted with pick #108, as Gardner was, it would be a lot different. Maybe I’m just being a “shiny object” type guy??

      1. Oh, and I don’t see how Haseley will save the Phillies much bonus pool money to use on other selections.

      2. i Just wonder if he was the best option at that spot. The wooden bat league bothers me and only really one year of Showing power in college bothers me. but i only saw on short tape on him So its only based on what i have read. Which isnt much to go on. so hope he works out.

  10. Here’s the article about Haseley from the Phillies’ website. http://m.phillies.mlb.com/news/article/235979120/phillies-draft-adam-haseley-with-eighth-pick/

    The team projects him to grow into 20-25 homer power – if he does that and hits and draws walks the way I expect he will, that will be a superb pick.

    One other little gem from the article is something maybe I missed or forgot about, but it’s that the Phillies now employ former Twins GM Terry Ryan. I love that. This guy is a hell of a baseball man and knows what he is doing. I do like the idea that, even with their growing reliance on statistics, they are eager to get the input of guys like Gillick, Manuel and Ryan – I think that’s a very wise way to handle things.

    Now, what we need the same level of excellence in our coaching across the board. The level of coaching and directing base runners (just as an example) at the major league level is abysmal – among the worst I’ve ever seen on a big league team. This team makes more stupid outs on the bases than any other team I can remember.

    1. If Haseley can hit 20-25 HRs, the Brett Gardner comparison becomes N/A. That power projection may be rather optimistic, however.

  11. I am happy for these kids that got drafted, and if he is one of our prospects, then I root for him. I would have taken Baz. If he develops 20-25 power, like Johhny A suggests, then he can move to a corner OF spot. Otherwise, he needs to pay CF. How do we compare him to Moniak? In 3 years, who plays CF for the Phils’ “back in the playoffs” team?

    1. matt13…agree with you on who I would have selected…high risk/high reward with Baz.
      Also, Klentak now has two CF/OFers he has ownership of…..Mo and Haseley.
      All the rest…Quinn, Williams, Cozens and Randolph…are the prior regime acquisitions.
      There will be no issue with letting a few of them go….Klentak did not acquire them.
      I do not understand the plan to tell you the truth.

    2. I don’t know enough about Baz to comment on whether choosing him or choosing Haseley was the right move, but I’m fine with Haseley.

      On outfielders, the Phillies are deep in outfielders – it reminds a lot of some of those old Reds teams – no matter what happened, the Reds always had 2 or 3 hot outfield prospects in the mix.

      The inescapable conclusion I reach is that some of these guys are going to be moved. But who and when? I have no idea.

      1. Haseley, himself, is a fine player.
        I just do not understand the strategy behind it with the Pigs’ OFers ready for promotion very soon and need extensive time to show their wares at the major league level.
        If you ask me….if I were Quinn, Williams and Cozens, I would be asking myself……why a college OFer at 8, who’s ETA is probably NLT 2019.
        Look, Klentak will have to do something more now to earn his pay…parading in aged relievers to patch work a major league bullpen is one thing….but now sorting out who will be part of the future core of position players, is a more challenging undertaking.

          1. Not to venture too off topic but around this point in their rebuild the Astros went out and got guys like Fowler & Gattis while signing relievers to multi-year deals. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Phillies are planning on moving some of their pieces (Of, SP, and C) to fill holes.

        1. The Phillies seem to be going for p!ayers with good approach . Nick Williams really doesn’t have that . Cozens might work out but might need a full yr of AAA . Quinn mght be out for the yr. Keep in mind Altherr and Herrera are up already which really leaves 1 spot only if there trades.

      2. Catch, they do have outfielders, But Quinn is always hurt and that is a big red flag, Cozen has unreal power but might never make it because of his strikeouts. I have seen perkins and he is the biggest puzzle you will ever see. I said if before he looks great one night and bad the next. i Just think there are a lot of question on the outfielders not that cant miss type So drafting Haseley is alright if he can tranlate it to majors. But only really one good year, not doing well in wood league bothers me but as others have stated i know nothing, but i still feel you draft best available no matter what position.

  12. If they are saving money at the top of the draft to increase the flexibility at the bottom of the draft to sign high end high school kids with scholarship commitments, then they get a pass . I guess we’ll have to see

  13. I personally preferred – Allard, Groome and Baz as the Phils Rd 1 picks during Johnny A.’s regime. With the FO that advocates growing arms – I’m not yet impressed with the domestic scouting. Johnny A. should be splitting his bonus with Sal A. as most of the high end arms are coming from the LA scouting.

    McPhail is McSlow and Klentak is his disciple. The Phillies are being run like a small market team — which may cost the team many opportunity to win!

    1. KuKo…correct me if I am wrong….but wasn’t MacPhail’s mantra 20 months ago…..’we will grow the arms and buy the bats’.
      I am not seeing that in these last two drafts.
      Gowdy and Howard are the two highest drafted arms it appears that they want to groom. I hope they become what they envision.
      The Braves, on the other hand, seem to be the team that are actually doing what MacPhail indicated earlier.

      1. Gowdy is the only player with the high upside that JA drafted – but it costs them a lot (equivalent to a 1.10 pick). I’m not sure of JA has high standards for pitchers to be drafted early in 1st round or he is just risk averse (like his bosses) when it comes to the frailty of pitching prospects.

        If not for Kingery’s breakout year, the 2015 draft is starting to look like vanilla and absent of an impact player.

        On the international front, Sal A. keeps finding gems every year (it is still early, but it’s nice to see potential even tough the LA prospects are far away). I’m not knocking the Moniak pick, but any GM drafting 1.1 should get an impact talent.

        1. I took a side shot at the 2015 draft a few weeks ago and got shot down big time.

          My view of this draft is that if Kingery proves to be a star, which is very possible, everything else is gravy. Still, you’d like to have at least two significant big league contributors in every draft (by significant I mean a starting position player, at least mid-rotation starter or back-end reliever).

          Sometimes when you see these drafts you wonder if Sal A. should be doing them. He is amazing. How he comes up with these talents again and again at bargain basement prices is astonishing. He has provided as much value to the team as any person in the organization as far as I can tell.

          1. considering also that Sal A. is looking at mostly young teens so the bigger the risk and lower the chance of hitting right. The thing that amaze me about Sal’s team is that they were able to find talents with really good tools even without really dipping his fingers in the “premium bucket” (except Ortiz).

      2. Actually, you should be glad of this – I think it reflects a better strategy to use the first available pick to select the BPA, rather than focusing solely on pitchers or hitters. Now, how well they execute the pick is another issue, but it looks like they are trying to get the BPA, which is good.

    2. Glad they didn’t pick Groome. It will be years before he is even relevant…assuming he can work past these injuries.

      1. Absolutely. Beyond the injuries he’s had as a pro, there’s a reason he dropped to 12.

        Look no further than the Marlins in how risky it can be to use high picks on prep arms. Once you’re out of the top 10 I’m fine with it. Im much more comfortable with the young, high risk/high reward arms coming out of LA.

        1. and why so down on Groome? Bc of one start that he was either hurt prior to or during? He’s going to be JUST fine.

  14. Haseley’s profile is something that you can get in the middle rounds. NYY drafted Gardner in Rd 3 and Adam Eaton was drafted in Rd 19. The Phillies can spend their last 20 picks and look for a Haseley’s profile.

    On what i observed, the ones happy with the picks are the ones doing their national rankings because they got this pick right. But fans who are burning $$ for years and fighting for the dignity of a big market team being run like a small market team — we are just asking for an “impact player” (an obvious big hole in the Phillies deep farm) – someone who is expected a carry a team and the fans can rally behind. I understand that the MLB drafting is tough – but at 1.10, 1.1 and 1.8 – the Phillies can get someone that the fans can follow and say “yeah, we got this guy!!”.

    Doc and Cliff Lee are not Phillies by blood – but the fans rally behind those two horses despite of the heartaches. I guess I’m just spoiled for having JRoll-Chase-Howie and Cole coming from the farm.

      1. I’ll pick Shane Baz, Trevor Rovers ($3-3.5M underslot) of even JB over Haseley at 1.8

        1. Baz has future ace or worst case high leverage reliever.
          I guess there are always injuries aswell , but beyond that I think the team needed to go for it they played it safe and have a deep farm of average to good players and what did the Phillies do they went and found another possible good to average guy.
          Hopefully I’m wrong and Thai kid absolutely rakes

  15. Both 1.8 and 2.45 better be underslot picks. otherwise, it get shades of Lucas Williams who the JA overreached but did not get much savings.

    1. Haseley will not be underslot, if he is it’s not by a lot. He was ranked by every outlet in 7-10 range.

    2. they actually paid Williams full slot that year, which seemed surprising. the savings were about 300k the next round on Kyle Martin.
      i wouldnt expect much underslot on either guy, if anything. Howard has 2 years of college eligibility.

  16. The second round pick makes no sense to me and is very Imhof esque. Better be under slot so we can nab some high school arms here. Howard was only borderline top 100 prospect, no?

    1. I get that Imhof and Howard both went to Cal-Poly and we drafted both in 2nd Rd. But otherwise, what’s the real comp?

      Imhof… LHP. Howard: RHP.
      Imhof: FB sat 89-91mph. Howard: 93-94mph (and given his adjustments just last offseason that added much Velo, there could still be another tick or two to add).
      Imhof: 93 BB in 173 IP in minors. Howard: 4.3 K/BB ratio this year. His command is one of his strengths (and what this regime looks for).

  17. I need to see something more out of MacKlentak. Very underwhelmed, so far. Romus is right. Look at Ben Cherington. I want the next Theo, not Ben. Where is Ben, by the way? Working at an investment banking firm?

    1. matt13…LOL.
      But in Sep’16, Cherington was hired by the Tor. Blue Jays to be their vice-president of baseball operations…so he landed on his feet.

      1. Thanks Romus, I meant him no disrespect. I fully understand he and Klentak are very intelligent guys. Klentak needs to take his analytics and his baseball knowledge and add a bit of riverboat gambler. We are a big market, capable of playing with the big boys from NY, Boston and LA. I want to sense that he and MacPhail understand that.

  18. After reading up on Haseley I’m starting to warm up to the pick. He’s a smart, hard-working kid who is more of a baseball player than athlete. If it breaks right I think he could be similar to Alex Gordon (who we would all be thrilled to get in his prime).

    While he might grade out as above-average in many of his skills – remember that intangibles make every skill play up. Utley was a great base runner, but he wasn’t the fastest player. Gordon OPSed at or near .800, but never hit a ton of home runs, and threw out a ton of baserunners due to accuracy, not so much arm strength. And we all know that a good approach will help you get on base, get better pitches to hit, and turn the lineup over.

    I’m not saying he will do all these things, but with the right make-up, attitude, and intelligence he could turn into a cornerstone type player who is also a leader – something we haven’t had in a while – even if his tools aren’t terribly loud. I’m pretty happy with the pick, and if he really does hit 20-25 home runs with a good approach, defense, and leadership he could be a REALLY great player.

    I don’t know anything about the pitcher we took 2nd, but it sure sounds like an underslot deal so we can sign some more college pitchers.

    1. GM can add established vets to provide maturity and leadership if that’s what you are looking for. At pick 1.8 you need a contributor. especially if you team is lack of it.

  19. With Moniak, Haseley, Williams, and Cozens in the fold and the inside word that the Phillies will heartily pursue Harper, I would think that they will have to package a couple lefty OFs to acquire a TOR arm. Right now I’m trying to envision the near future OF of Altherr with two of these guys alongside him.

  20. Unless it’s a big underslot, most of the Top 10 picks breach the Top 100 MLB post draft. Will Haseley sniff the Top 100?!?

    And depending on how you value the prospects in high minors like Quinn, Cozens, Williams and Hoskins — Haseley may not make it to the Phils Top 10. Howard will probably not break into the Top 20.

    1. Who is better OF prospect Williams or Haseley?
      All tools, but one…the Hit tool, point to Williams.

      1. Romus – i will still rank Williams ahead of Haseley post draft especially Nick is playing well of late and his tools are there. If Gowdy is playing and playing as expected, Gowdy will be my #9/#10. For now, I’m still debating between Cozens and Haseley at #10.

        1. Moniak
        2. JPC
        3. Alfaro
        4. Kingery
        5. Kilome
        6. Sixto
        7. Williams
        8. Hoskins
        9. Quinn
        10. Cozens or Haseley?

        Baz or Rogers will be my #7, JB or Faedo probably behind Hoskins. If the Phils drafted either Enlow-T Beck-Mitchell-Scherff (instead of Howard) as 2.45, that pick will be behind Haseley in my ranking.

        1. Kuko, I find your top 10 well balanced. While JPC and Alfaro have struggled, and while Kingery has been white hot, our natural inclination is to allow “what have you done for me lately” to sway our subjective judgments. I’m not as high on Kilome or Quinn but collectively it’s pretty accurate. Bear in mind, this list will be drastically turned over next season. Haseley is more of a ball player than Cozens or Williams but time will tell if he’s got the game.

          1. i highly consider game changing abilities and loud tools in my rankings and even in my player assessment. prospects = risks. if something clicks – the loud tools are difference makers.

            i’m not really hating the safe Haseley pick, I’m always been a gambling guy so i prefer high risk high end talents at for Day 1 picks. The team can use the remaining 38 picks to draft below the radar and high floor low ceiling types.

      2. That’s a big tool to be the lesser, though. By the time Haseley is up, we will have found out about Williams.

    2. It’s a good question.

      I think the following prospects are ahead of Haseley


      He is in the discussion with

      Dominguez (if healthy)
      Eshelman (big gainer this year)

      I have him ahead of

      Alfaro (I’m no longer a believer)

      1. Where’s JPC? Agree that both Seranthony and Eshelman are big gainers (with Kingery) – I have Esh moving up to #14 (from #22) and Seranthony to #17 (from #35). I’m a believer in Drew Anderson (who can develop to Shane Baz potential if everything clicks) and I view him higher than most.

    3. I’m not a fan of the Haleley pick but try to keep a little perspective. He is obviously one of their top-10 prospects as of now…

  21. Connor Seabold, CS Fullerton. See a theme in that he is compared to Eshelman, another low 90’s guy with control…

  22. 3.83 Connor Seabold, Cal State Fullerton, RHP
    #188 MLB, #183 BA
    There were still several highly ranked players on the board. Many HS which I know would have risk. And some college (including BA #41 Tristan Beck, RHP, Stanford. I know nothing about him but I’ve read his name a few times on this site hoping for 2nd Rd)

  23. I know nothing about Connor Seabold, but taking a guy ranked 188 at 83 is a bit concerning. Could the Phils be that much smarter than everyone else? I mean that is 3 rounds early…

  24. Reports are that he might have the best command/control in the draft, and his fastball ticked up to 92-94 this spring. Nice frame too with room to fill out. Interesting.

      1. don’t get carried away. an 5-6mph jump in FB (thrown consistently) is not an easy thing to do especially if there’s less projection left.

      2. saw some of him pitching against long beach state over the weekend; wish i watched closer; he had shut down LBS in previous start but they got him for 3 runs i think in the first; he didnt give up anything after that but that was too much for CSF to overcome.they came back and won series so we should see him in CWS.

      1. He’s fine he was throwing 92 to 94 late in yr he’s on my list . He looked good Big Sky was very good conf this yr. He’s control is elite also he can spin a baseball.

        1. Eric Longerhagen in todays chat on Fangraphs, had him ‘ticking low90s’…..so he probably was a 88/91 seated guy most of the time.

          1. How the hell do you take this guy at all, I just will never understand there theory on pitching. The guy cant break a egg and is 21

  25. Isn’t the 3rd Round a little soon to be drafting lower velocity control arms from college? 189th ranked player in this slot as well?

      1. blanket if you say anything negative they thumb you down We only allow to say its great no matter how bad they do things.

  26. the 1st 3 picks appears to be underslot signings. Tanner Burns, Alex Scherff and Garrett Mitchelle are at least $1M signings – they can be target by the Phils for over slot in the next rounds which will make the unpopular safe picks as smart picks.

      1. 18HRs last year for Houston…before that a JUCO guy.
        Good size…6’1″, 205 or so

        1. Jake led the American Athletic Conference in HR. Fourth in avg. Played 2nd and SS.

        2. Romus what kind of competition does Houston face. I really never have seen them. I just dont get the second round pick. if what i am reading is true, seems like a reach. i am so tired of the low velocity guys, I am starting to think we are in deep trouble with this gm and scouting director, Hope i am wrong. But they scare me

      2. from baseballdraftreport.com

        Jake Scheiner may not have standout tools, but his production over the years, including a first year run at Houston matched by few in college baseball this season, is too good to ignore. My only notes on him coming into the year are short and sweet: “damn good hit tool.” Defensively, I’ve heard mixed opinions on the likelihood he can stick at his college position of shortstop. There are some who think he’s just athletic enough to pull it off, but most seem to believe he’s best as an offensive second baseman and/or utility infielder. I’d have no qualms drafting him as a shortstop with the plan to develop him at second if need be (there’s no shame in playing second once you make it to pro ball) before exploring that utility option. I like Scheiner a lot

        1. Love it. Franco better take this as a wake up call.
          And it does not hinder Stobbe as he is a few years away.

  27. I gotta think they have some overslot targets that they really like based one these first 3 picks. I don’t understand the 4th round pick, but can’t come to any kind of conclusion until you see the class as a whole.

  28. I am okay with the college picks in round 3 and 4. Both guys appear to be late bloomers that came out of nowhere. Clearly there is some risk in that but also reward. As they stayed in college and continued to build on their success, they would be rated higher next year. I like this approach as opposed to a guy who is what he is and is just an organizational player. I wouldn’t worry so much about rankings either. Trout wasn’t ranked #1. Can you imagine if a team took him in the top five, fans would be on social media saying it is a reach. Relax.

  29. I’m starting to like the Howard pick a little more. It sounds like he was more of an analytics type of selection. He may surprise us. I still think on paper (until we see his bonus) he was an overdraft. (I would’ve drafted Canning and rehabbed him).

  30. Def not excited with the draft so far but I have to remember this . . . To all of us complaining, how many times have we seen these players live? I’d say more of us, if not all of us the answer is zero. These scouts have seen these kids for the past couple of years. I trust that they know way more than any of us. With that said, def 🤔 A little head scratching

  31. And for those of you hoping some of these head scratchers are underslot picks, I’m going to tell you the sad truth. Every one of these kids is going to sign for exactly their slot. Unless there are a bunch of low ceiling college seniors coming up from 6-10 there won’t likely be any overslot signings in the later rounds.

    1. how can you tell with finality when your guess is only as good as ours? Johnny A. signed 7 HS draftees in 2015 draft and another 7 in 2016 – thru a combination of over(under) slotting here and there. I don’t think Johnny A. will depart from this approach.

  32. Ethan “looks like another Bailey Falter pick” Lindow appears to be a near slot or slightly underslot pick. I can sense that the Phils will make an overslot draftee before the day ends — maybe a gamble of Garrett Mitchell or convince Tanner Burns to forego college.

    1. Eric A Longenhagen: Phillies Ethan Lindow.
      Physically projectable, stuff backed up late in the spring. Has been up to 92 with some breaking ball and changeup feel. Interetsing buy-low prospect.

      1. MattWinks reported the same as well. This is actually the pick I like the most — assuming all draftees will sign at slot value.

  33. Fangraph’s Eric A Longenhagen on Seabold
    Philadelphia selecting Connor Seabold, RHP, Cal St Fullerton. Control/command guy, velo tiicked up into the low-90s this season, average secondaries. #100 on my board

  34. Even if the Phillies are considering signing an overslot kid I am sure some other teams have the same idea, so they will still have to beat out other teams for some of these kids, unless they have talked to them in advance and worked out some sort of agreement of how much it may take to sign a kid or 2? But even then, you are hopeful to sign 1 maybe 2 young kids with potential… when you could be signing 10 strong candidates (that many agree have good skills) and forgo this wish list at the end of draft… I am not a fan so far…but I will hope they know what the are doing.

    1. you don’t normally see “strong candidates (that many agree have good skills)” in teh later rounds. these “candidates” are normally ranked in the 1st 100 picks if there are indeed “strong candidates”. “Strong candidates” fall in the latter rounds because of signability issues, thus, teams need to pay over slot.

      and just like the J2 signings, the teams talked to these players, coaches and agents ahead of the draft. that’s part of their due diligence.

  35. If you look at some of the other teams that typically draft pretty well (Cubs, Red Sox, etc), so far, you will see they have drafted a lot of highly rated guys. Houston & Toronto have drafted 5 guys already ranked within the top 100 prospects. Red Sox & Cubs have 5 highly ranked prospects. The Twins have 7 ranked prospects… I know it is a crap shoot… but like some said earlier… Are the Phillies that much smarter than all the scouts in baseball? I hope they are and make me eat my words!

  36. We really don’t know anywhere near as much as the scouts, but from a fan’s standpoint, this looks pretty weak…looks like this front office likes low ceiling/high floor guys

  37. Probably not true at all, but I wonder if the owners are putting pressure on “to be good now” so that’s why we’re seeing a lot of college (potentially quick movers) being drafted?

    I don’t think I ever remember this many college players being drafted this early. 1 HSer in the first 6 picks?

    1. Ruben did it in 2014……9 of the first 19 were college…..then McWilliams was eventually traded for Hellickson.

  38. Looks like they’re staying true to picking the Mickey “Jetpax” Bowa heady ball player mold. Like the Guthrie pick. Advanced hit tool with gap power. Question is can he stick at SS. Crawford will be keeping tabs.

    1. Crawford won’t be keeping tabs. Guthrie is at least 3 years away. By the time he’s ready, Crawford is either going to be playing SS full time or be a super sub.

    2. 8mark:
      Guthrie scouting via MLB:
      Hit: 50 | Power: 35 | Run: 55 | Arm: 50 | Field: 55 | Overall: 45
      Gators have a reputation of late for producing professional-level pitching talent, and for good reason given the five arms that were taken in the top four rounds a year ago as well as Alex Faedo, who could be a top pick this coming June. But a player like Guthrie, with a track record of success in the SEC and MLB bloodlines, should not be overlooked.
      The son of long-time big league hurler Mark Guthrie, Dalton brings considerable knowledge of the game to the field daily. He has more value if you believe he can be an everyday shortstop and he is a solid defender there, one who knows how to position himself and whose instincts should let him stay there. The biggest question might be about his arm, which was solid-average before he needed a procedure to move a nerve in his elbow, keeping him out of fall activities. An above-average runner, Guthrie does have some gap power and an advanced approach at the plate.
      Teams will undoubtedly be concerned about his size and whether his 5-foot-11 frame will hinder him at the next level. With a dearth of college position players, a team that believes he can indeed stick at short will consider him early.

  39. Saw this guy play once. American League scout liked him. I saw him on an off day, but looked like he had some pop in batting practice for a middle infielder.

    1. Burns, Beck, Mitchell and Eder are still available prior to ATL’s pick in the 8th rd

      1. Forget Eder now…..he is committed to Vandy and will need a huge over sign to break that commit.

  40. Yay – more potential #3 and 4 starters who can’t hit 95 on a radar gun. Look, guys like that have their place and their value – but great pitching rotations aren’t built on average starters. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so. And, by the way, I don’t mind taking SOME of those guys. But there should be some dudes who light up a radar gun and Johnny A takes none of those guys. That bothers me – quite a bit.

    1. Johnn A. probably made a pact with Sal A. and said — “you (Sal) take care of getting all the toolsy players from LA and I (Johnny) will take care of the org fillers unless Papa Middleton told me otherwise. this way we are complimenting one another”….

    2. This draft is almost reminiscent of the 2014 draft that Ruben did to try to get the players up soon. Looks like it will be Hoskins and Nola to emerge as the only players that will contribute at the major league level.

  41. Haseley had a great junior year in the ACC with low k rate but just last summer in the Cape Cod League (with wooden bats and top of the line competition) he didn’t do all that well. Many more Ks than HRs or BBs.

    1. ciada,

      Do you give him credit for recently making the transition to full-time hitter? Maybe that explains this year’s surge. Perhaps he would have done better in the Cape Cod League if he had made the conversion a year earlier.

    1. the Phils signed a 29 yo DSL pitcher with same name (and DOB but different year). MLB did not indicate any school for this pick

  42. listed as no school. when i google him up comes an milb.com page with a guy now 29 listed with the DSL phillies.

      1. yes, but i see on this site on 3/1 he was listed as signing a minor league contract with the phils…maybe that was voided by mlb for some reason and they had to draft him?

    1. They are one and the same person. Jhordany is from the DR and is 19. The Phils made a typo on his player page that has spread to a jillion other sites. The reason he had a player page is because they had him signed as a foreign FA, and he was assigned to one of the DSL teams (a transaction that seems to have disappeared from the league transactions page). Then they found out (or MLB found out) that he had moved to the US and attended HS in NJ, making him draft eligible. So the Phillies drafted him. Bizarre is an understatement.

  43. With Haseley possibly ticketed for Lakewood, is there any chance that Moniak goes to Williamsport? This keeps Haseley ahead of Moniac (especially considering their age difference).

    Maybe their intention was to put Moniak with the Blue Claws so he could start playing competitively in April and then have with go to Williamsport when they start up next week.

    1. LKW is in need of a reliable OF. Haseley can play of of the corner OF with Moniak staying in the CF.

      Once Quinn and Williams moves up a corresponding OF movement will push Haseley to be the CF of CLW towards the ends of the season. Moniak will probably stay in LKW the whole of 2017.

    2. Moniak has had a rough June, but did well enough on the year as a whole and especially in May that I don’t think we should demote him. He was challenged with Lakewood and has at least held his own. It sends the wrong message to demote him. On the other hand, perhaps he could use more games off if he is wearing down due to his first full-season grind. That would give Hasely some games in CF.

    3. I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want to mention it during Draft week. Moniak getting demoted would not be a good things for most people on this site.
      Things can get a little testy around here.

      Also everyone has been looking at the best available guys and my thought is these guys are probably #11 or greater picks. Don’t the Phils have to sign their top 10 to get the full bonus? After they sign the top 10, they know how much money they have available for the overslot guys. I hope they already know how much each guy will take to sign so they’ll know if they can sign them.

  44. If Sal A.’s team is high on Jhordany Mezquita as a 19 yo LHP prospect, this might be a steal pick at 8.233. it will be interesting to see how much is the bonus that the Phils will offer Mezquita as the signing bonus for 8.233 is only $166k.

    1. KuKo….odd…Cardinals number one prospect , Alex Reyes, did the opposite Mezquita did…he was born in the US and moved to the DR at 18 , stayed with grandparents, established residency…then signed as a FA for $950K, avoiding the Rule 4 draft. But your question is interesting since as J2 guy next month, he may have recd more than the 8.233 slot number.

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