Open Discussion: Week of September 12th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The Phillies went 3-4 on the road against a couple of division foes last week.  They took 2 of 3 from the fading Marlins, and dropped 3 of four against the division leading Nationals. Their record stands at 63-80 (21-32 since the All Star break).  BTW, in last weeks discussion, I did predict that the Nationals would lose a game to the Phillies, sort of.

A friend of mine pointed out that after the Phillies swept the Rockies at home, they were only seven games below .500 at 56-63 on August 14th.  Two nights later, the Dodgers came to town, the fans had their Utley love fest, and the Phillies have gone 7-17 since.  Blame Utley?  Or just one of those coincidences that make you go, “Hmm”.

The Phillies begin a 9-game home stand Monday.  They play 4 against Pittsburgh and 3 against Miami.  Both teams are in danger in dropping out of the wild card race.  They are both 5 losses behind the resurgent Mets.

Okay, no reason to track the Phillies descent in the wild card race any longer.  Their elimination number is seven.  With 19 games remaining on their schedule, I think they’re a lock.  They could be eliminated as early as next week end.

In spite of their 3-4 week, the Phillies still have a .441 winning percentage.  Still eighth worst in the league.

The Phillies have 80 losses.  Three teams with 82 losses (Oakland, Tampa, and Cincinnati) have played the Phillies into a position where they may still be able to better their draft position (and more importantly, their bonus allotment).  Two 79-loss teams (Anaheim and Milwaukee) are playing well right now (Angels 5-5 and Brewers 7-3) and the Angels have an opportunity to play spoiler down the stretch.

The Phillies have recalled 36 of the 40 players on their 40-man roster.  Those still in the minors are Elvis Araujo, David Buchanan, Jimmy Cordero (DL), and Dalier Hinojosa.  Nick Williams may have made any decision on his behalf even easier when he was removed from the IronPigs last game after he injured himself running into a railing trying to catch a fly ball in foul territory.

Roman Quinn was called up and inserted into the line up.  He started in CF.  I didn’t watch the game, but I heard he made a couple of dramatic catches on fly balls and almost beat out a ground ball to second.  He went 0-3 with a walk.

141 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of September 12th

  1. As the regular season winds down, I am far more encouraged by the starting pitching than any aspect of the organization. Hopefully a few gifted arms can make a graceful transition to the bullpen. Other than Neris and Ramos, the cupboard is bare. (Gomez doesn’t project as the answer as closer.) We’ll be needing to acquire a TOR guy and develop (if not sign) a closer.

    Altherr has disappointed but I’m allowing for recovery from his wrist injury. Let’s see how he does next season. As deep as the outfield seems throughout the organization, I won’t be surprised if they go outside for an established bat.

    IMO Rupp has peaked. At a premium position like catcher he has significant value so my hope is that the front office maximizes it since we are deep behind the plate.

    My biggest concern is the approach at the plate and an urgent need for heady players. I realize that they don’t grow on trees but young guys like Hoskins, Crawford, Kingery, and even Alfaro might eventually bring stability to the major league roster. A couple veterans in the meantime could speed that up.

    1. agree on the biggest concern. and who does the organization have teaching it, and who do they have on the roster to demonstrate it?

    2. 8mark……concerning closers…..what about Jimmy C.? Everybody likes Jimmy! Jimmy thinks he can close next season for the Phillies…and I am sure they will check him out in spring training.
      Altherr…..sorry…but he is what he is at the plate. Not sure his wrist has anything to do with his 30% Krate this season, though SSS….but his 28% Krate over the last three sporadic years in the majors.If he doesn’t bring that Krate down by 8-10 points, he will probably have a slash of something like 240/.300/.750 going forward.

      1. Romus, I’m not as worried about Altherr’s wrist causing the problems as I am just his layoff for several months and trying to get back into the flow of games and seeing pitches. He may not be what we hope, but I’d make sure he gets a full opportunity next spring and to start the season and play every day for a few months and then we can make a decision.

        1. BuddyB….I am sure he will get a full opportunity next season. The Phillies would be remiss in not doing that I would think. And hopefully his krate can be brought down…he needs to make contact, he has a strong bat and the key is making contact. If anything, he can be a valuable 4th OFer with his plus defensive abilities.

          1. Romus i’m with you . . . that’s the player he is . . . at best he’s a 4th outfielder and I don’t think anyone really thought he would be much more.

    3. Rupp has seemed to digressed since the Chooch trade.

      Altherr seems to be what his performance showed in the minors, a high strikeout player with strong defense and potential over time. Seems to be a platoon candidate.

      I would also like to mention Franco as being in the same category of digression.

  2. Bellman I second that emotion! I am a multiple times a day visitor to the site but only an occasional poster of comments. I enjoy the banter between the regulars but am in awe of what Jim has brought to the site. I don’t know what you did for your work career, Jim, but if you worked anywhere near as hard as you do on this site, you must have left a gaping hole when you retired!

    Your daily postings on our Florida based teams (and players on rehab assignments) are a must read for me. Being a native Philadelphian (born in northeast, raised and live in the northern suburbs) and life long Phillies diehard(my 1st game Connie Mack stadium, 1967 Richie Allen bat day), you and the regular group have made following the big club infinitely more enjoyable .

    Thanks to you and the entire Phuture Phillies crew for making my Phillies fan experience exponentially more enjoyable!! Here’s hoping for many more years!!

  3. omg Romus remember Richie hitting those shots off the coke sign in left field. The one I remember the most about him was the time. Mc coy hit a shot to right off the light tower, and Richie the next inning hit it higher off the tower, As a right hand hitter it was amazing his power to all fields.

    1. You mean the Giants Willie McCovey’s shot?
      Richie Allen had great power and used that huge bat.
      Do not recall that blast but saw many going over the roof in LF.

      1. Romus and roccom, I think Richie Allen used a 40 oz. bat. I remember it was huge. I had one of those miniature bats from Allen day. It was a thrill for me as a young kid.

  4. Rough week for the Phils manager. First, he takes out his starting P after 75 pitches and uses a tired bullpen. Larry Anderson was annoyed. “How do they expect to get experience in tough situations if you pull them after 75 pitches? Don’t you want to toughen them and save an over-used pen?”

    Pete then blows it by not doing the double switch in another game.

    Odubel Herrera article in the Inquirer this morning where Matt Breen speculates Odubel might have to learn a new position in 2017 (Altherr might get CF job…I’m not so sure of that but that’s a discussion for another day). Odubel is obviously upset about his slide but unsure of why it happened. Said that he will go back home in the off season and “work harder than last year…..I’m going to try to be more selective.” Maybe just maybe the Phils braintrust can give him some tape or instructions on what to work on? Something besides what they have been doing for the last two months going on three.

    If the article is correct that Odubel might need to play another position next season, then you add more to his plate besides his issues batting. That’s a lot this off season. Hope his father has some good advice.

    1. Larry Andersen missed his calling by not managing. He could have been a pitcher’s manager with an offensive bench coach by his side ala Larry Bowa. BTW, at the Vet in 93 or 94 I walked by the bullpen on the concourse above and said “hi” down to him he smiled, waved and said “hi”.

      As to Odubel, I suspect this is a lack of discipline of a not fully matured player, combined with a lack of motivation caused by a losing team.

    2. I had another meaningless thought. It was truly a nice gesture for the Phils to call up Ruf and Asche in September. Neither will be back next year in my opinion. Was mentioned on a broadcast recently that Ruf might have an offer to play in Japan next year. This call up gives them about a month of MLB salary and time towards their pensions. A going-away present from management.

    3. If AA is the starting CF next year there is a huge problem with talent evaluation . . . I don’t think that will be the case . . . I don’t think Quinn ever sees another MiL game again unless its a rehab assignment (which with Quinn is highly likely)

  5. The Phils should get a top 10 pick in next year’s draft and have a shot at the No. 5 pick. Since the draft will be deeper, their ’17 No. 1 pick could be a better prospect than their ’16 No. 1 pick. If they can somehow add a competitive balance pick for next year, the added pick and bonus money could make the ’17 draft a very successful one for the Phils.

    With Velasquez, Eickhoff, and Nola, the Phils appear to have a very strong back-of-the-rotation for the future. By adding TOR pieces through the draft and free agency, the team can have a strong rotation to go to war with by 2018 or 2019.

    The Phils’ position players are not so impressive. I see no stars on the current major-league roster; maybe, one regular and maybe two or three bench guys. Although Crawford and Alfaro look pretty good, neither is a lock to be a star. There may be more future regulars among the other prospects, but a lot more improvement is necessary before any project to be stars. It looks as though it will take a while before the Phils again have a formidable lineup.

    Let’s face it. The Phils had a great run from 2007-2011, but today they are just a run-of-the-mill franchise.

    1. If you look at the Cubs, for instance, even Rizzo, who is probably their 5th or 6th Star player, is only 27. I am very hopeful that JP becomes a star, but Russell is setting a high bar. Franco has a long way to go, and may never come close, to matching Bryant. And, Arrieta and Lester are TOR guys. So, not only do JP and Alfaro need to really become terrific players, Klentak needs to make FA and trade acquisitions that add Star quality as well.

  6. Doobie, who I like, needs to watch tape of his first 250 ABs, and he will see what the change is. His selectivity dropped, he stopped hitting it hard the opposite way, his BBs dropped a lot, and so did his BA. He did not make up for it with stellar defensive play in CF. I would not write Altherr’s name in CF in ink very quickly, his bat makes him an extra OF. Still holding out hope for Quinn. Quinn and JP batting 1/2 is really something to dream on.

    1. matt13…my honeymoon for Doobie is close to over. He knows what he has to do to correct the situation. He did it for the first two months of the season. then regressed after the all-star break.
      Then there is the constant plate antics of gamesmanship or maybe his superstitious obsessions…..that piss off the opposing pitcher and catcher. If he cannot temper that….he will be suffering from some broken wrists down the road.

  7. Has anyone put together the formal list of all players that need to be protected on the 40 or be offered? I’d like to formalize my thinking on who to protect. One guy who won’t be in the list unfortunately is Asche. I really missed the boat on him, others probably did too. Time to cut him loose.

  8. Romus, Rocco

    Back then they gave out real wooden bats. I think the bat is till in my parents garage. Imagine if they gave out real bats today……..

    1. I grew up outside of NY in Connecticut. When I was a little kid I went to bat day at the old (I mean, the old, old – pre- 1975) Yankee Stadium. Yeah, 30,000 people running around South Bronx with full-size baseball bats. Brilliant!!!

      1. My first Yankees game was world series game against Cincinnati. Got to see my idol Mickey Mantle. Will never forget that feeling, little kid seeing the mick

        1. rocco….oh my…what a coincidence…..I was in Yankees Stadium in that series….CF with my dad between Vada Pinson in CF and Frank Robinson in LF. But I cannot recall Mickey Mantle in that game. I probably need to go to a hypnotist/ psychiatrist and find out why!

          1. Romus I went to game 2 I believe. Mickey didn’t play saw him in dugout, Yogi Berra played left field that day. Joey jay was the pitcher. That all I can remember, was real young.

  9. Eric L. on Cozens chat today:
    Phil E
    have you seen any players have similar seasons to Dillon Cozens and make the necessary adjustments to become an above average ML regular?

    Eric A Longenhagen
    Lots of guys who were this “type” of player have hit enough (or just have enough power that it doesn’t matter how much they hit) to be a good big leaguer. Chris Davis, Chris Carter, Mark Reynolds…
    Of course, there are also Steven Moyas and Jack Custs…Cozens is a tough eval.

    1. Romus I Think its true of Williams too. I just cant get a feel for him, what kind of player he will be, I keep thinking his problem is he is slow to recognize pitches, which he could fix with more seasoning

  10. Pretty cool that Quinn and Alfaro both pick up their first major league hits on the same night. Shame Quinn has been bitten by the injury bug. Otherwise this would have been his rookie season. I personally think that he’s here to stay. (Sorry, Tim) Pregame Mackanin said Alfaro would catch Asher Tue night and probably start 5 or 6 games the last 3 weeks.

    1. It’s ok based upon Galvis hitting a bomb , Asche hitting a double in the same ing that Quinn hit his double . They were hitting against G Cole who has given up 35 hits in his last 17 ings .Herrera had 2 hits 1 sb. I wonder if that is the new starting OF Herrera in CF Quinn in right and Asche in left. I wonder if Cozens and Hoskins will get there chance . They might stay in the majors too.

      1. Tim, from reading between the lines of what Mackanin said yesterday, your boy Herrera’s days in cf are numbered. You might have to turn in your Doobie doll for a raggedy Roman.

        ….just having fun, pal.

        1. I’ll keep it a Doobie doll is a little durable then Quinn doll which made out of China. Only kidding had to do it 8Mark BTW Mackanin said he would like 2 vet bats . Danny V from Oakland will be out there too.l’d like to go after Ivan Nova too.

  11. Yea to the Phillies they tied there win total from last yr. BTW Kyle Hendricks came within 3 outs of a no no . He did it against the Cards his Era is now 2.02.

    1. 64 wins is actually one better than last year’s 63, Tim. But who’s counting?

      My comment about Quinn wasn’t based on him having one good night. I’m simply saying that he’s ready. I’ve also been one of his detractors due to his history of injuries. BUT I am changing my tune as I consider that
      1) he’s young and could probably benefit from a good off season program
      2) the injuries he’s incurred are all not interrelated, but have been mostly misfortune.
      3) watching him recently has given me a glimpse of JRoll’s confidence and that sense of “I belong here”
      4) he’s got all 5 tools together more developed perhaps than any other prospect at this time.

        1. Just saying this give him a Full look before going crazy . G Cole had no control last night that’s why Pitt pulled him . Quinn k % jump to 21 % the second time around AA. He a cross between M Bourn and Revere to me. It will take a good 150 atbats before the mlb pitchers get a book on him. The key is too see if adjusts he’s never really had to every yr he was Injured.

          1. Tim……your boy Kyle Hendricks couldn’t even hold a no-hitter thru the 9th….see he is not all what is made out to be! 🙂

            1. The last ing he felt bad for the Cards hitters so he tryed underhand . Right now he’s just amazing he keeps getting better .

          2. Quinn’s advantage over Bourn and Revere is that he is a switch hitter with pretty even splits. If healthy he will be a much better offensive player than either of them and defensively he is much better than Revere.

            1. That’s all protection of course for Quinn all of 10 atbats , MBourn his best season his war was 6.1 he also had a season of 722 atbats. Revere almost the same size as Quinn which is hard to find seems to be pretty beat up . Funny Quinn splits R side more like Revere left side more power . Me I like Herrera and of course Mickey Mo , Jp and Kingery at the top of the lineup.

  12. Alberto Tirado, acquired from Toronto for Ben Revere, posted a 2.19 ERA with 83 strikeouts and 25 walks in 531/3 innings as a starter after his banishment to extended spring training. He throws 100 mph. He is eligible for selection in the Rule 5 draft. “Tirado has the best arm in our system,” Jordan said.

  13. Has to be protected and will get a full season to see what he can continue to do. He is climbing high on the Prospect list. It will be a fun debate this off season.

  14. Does anyone know when Mike Trout’s current contract expires?

    Reason I ask is that even if LAA trades him beforehand, another team will have to sign him to a new megadeal.

    1 The Phillies’ money will be there when that time comes.

    2 He’s a local guy who might look favorably on coming home.

    3 Klentak was the Angels’ assistant GM before heading to Philly. Perhaps (and I don’t know this for certain) but there may be an existing relationship between the two?

    All I’m saying is that why wouldn’t we have as good a shot at the free agent Trout as any interested club. I’m also agreeing that I would NOT trade half our system for him. We wouldn’t have to….there’s $50+ million reasons why.

      1. Thx, Romus. Geez, that’s a long time but it’ll be here before you know it. 2020 is THE year I’m hoping it all comes together. 2018 should be a .500+ season.

  15. Might be about time Pete reassigns bullpen roles. Jeanmar hasn’t been effective for quite some time. Let’s see how Neris or Ramos fare in the closer role. Meaningless games are ideal for trying new things.

  16. Here is one of the best and most insightful articles I’ve read about the Phillies’ minor league system in a long time and, refreshingly, it was by Matt Gelb and posted on

    The article talks about the state of the Phillies’ rebuild and I think it nails almost everything on the head. In terms of the status of the system, the one thing that I think it captures completely is that, long term, the most promising development this year was the emergence, of multiple potential top-of-the-rotation arms in the lower minor leagues. Aside from Kilome, I don’t think many of us saw this coming – I know I certainly did not. And, for the first time, I saw a major news publication mention Sixto Sanchez and the other lesser known GCL arms.

    The other thing the article mentions – and I agree – is that while the system is, perhaps, not loaded with elite talent, it is loaded with potential major league players; it is a very deep system.

    The article gets the take of both scouts and the Phillies’ farm director, Joe Jordan. Jordan gives special praise to Tirado (noted by someone else) for his arm, Kingery (he loves everything about him – you can tell that he’s something of a “golden boy” for them), and Cozens (thinks he has elite power, something I think most people agree on).

    It’s a great read.

    1. Also, Jordan talks a bit about what he wants from some players in their development. His big “ask” for Crawford is that he becomes stronger, something I’ve mentioned a few times as well. The difference in Crawford’s trajectory as a player with average to slightly above-average power to a player with below-average power (which is where he is right now), is potentially very significant. If JP can develop the power Freddy Galvis now has, I think he’ll be one of the 15 to 20 best players in baseball.

      1. He also addressed Williams ‘attitude’ in LHV this season…. sugar coating it as much as possible with the youth maturity aspect as a factor… ..which is significant in that type of assessment is not something that is usually shared with the media.

        1. Have to say that the article got me pumped over low level arms, especially Sixto. Kingery has really impressed despite wearing down late in the season. And Cozens being tagged as a “strong” platoon in big league OF with raw power, rating ’90’!! was good to see.

  17. I thought it would be interesting to take a quick look at the top of the 2016 draft class and their short seasons

    Moniak 286 with a 749 OPS
    Senzel 329 with a 982 ops
    Ian Anderson 1.13 WHIP 8.2 K/9
    Pint 1.784 WHIP over a 8.8 K/9
    Corey Ray 239 over 678 OPS
    Puk 1.07 WHIP 11.9 K/9
    Braxton Garrett signed but hasn’t played
    Quantrill 1.27 WHIP 11.2 K/9
    Manning 1.159 WHIP 14.1 K/9
    Zack Collins 258 avg 885 OPS
    Kyle Lewis 299 915 OPS before his injury
    Groome 1.05 13.5 K/9 LOL
    Rutherford 351 986 Yikes…

    1. I will always say Groome after 10 (I what 12 or 13? To the RedSox)was the best pick in round one. He’s going to be special.

  18. Catch, I really enjoyed that article as well. My big question from it is, why wasn’t JP defended as an “elite” prospect. Regarded around baseball as one of the top prospects in the Minor, I think regarded by us as elite, and Jordan mentioned Cozens having elite power, and when the question was specifically about the Phils lacking in elite level prospects, Jordan didn’t say “we feel JP is elite”. Am I missing something?

    1. Matt – I didn’t think about that as I was reading the article, but yes, it’s interesting. I think it’s a combination of an oversight and some new concerns about Crawford. But going by industry projections, he’s still an elite prospect.

      1. Tim….I just want to see this new management team……make a statement out of the ordinary AND to flex some monetary muscle, as they aptly stated they would 11 months ago. Not so much on MLB FAs, but in acquiring young amateur talent.
        Do you know….of the 13/15 ‘large’ market teams as designated by MLB, the Phillies and the Mets are probably the only two that have been the thriftiest …and part of the Mets’ reasoning is because the Wilpon’s are still somewhat smarting from the Madoff events.
        It seems the Giles trade was the MacPhail/Klentak first bold move…and hopefully not their last bold move going forward.

        1. Romus I watch Quinn at bat when he bunted the other night. I thought they ran it in fast motion. That kid has speed like dee Gordon. and few others, Hope he can stay healthy

          1. That’s a funny comment and reminds me of what I thought and wrote the first time I saw video of Quinn running. It was in one of those high A or AA games where there was one camera fixed high above the field where you could see everything happening – like sitting up in the upper deck. Quinn hit a triple or inside the park home run and the only thing I could think was that it looked like one of those old film clips from the 1920s of Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb where it looked like the players were running in fast motion. Quinn in real life is fast motion and last night, although his throw to the plate was not perfect, it was released at 96 MPH – he has an absolute gun. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – he has one of the highest ceilings in this organization. If he reaches his potential he will be a star.

          2. I have been trying to catch Phillies games this week in the hopes of seeing Quinn. You have to like everything about this kid, his speed, his hitting, his plate discipline, his glove and his arm. Certainly the most exciting Phils prospect since Rollins.

          1. Tim..Joey Curletta was acquire a few hours ago….but he is not a proven bat.
            He is a big power and strong OFer….but Ks a lot.

            1. Cozens and Hoskins were Bash Brothers I at Reading this year.
              Joe Curletta and Kyle Martin will be Bash Brothers II in 2017 at Reading.

      1. Don’t worry too much, he’s going through normal growing pains. HIs fielding was great and he’s working on his approach at the plate. It may take a few years before he really takes off. I believe in him. I still view Aramis Ramirez as a good comp for him.

          1. Roccom, it’s a good point – it’s just a lot harder to adjust in the majors, but I see him working on it. It’s always possible he doesn’t adjust, but he’s really young and so he has time on his side . . . for now. The way I look at it, he kind of had a bad year at the plate and he’s going to still almost hit 25 home runs. That’s pretty impressive.

        1. My comp for Franco is Pedro Feliz in his SF years. Good glove, 25 hr power but won’t hit for much average or get on base. Feliz was roughly a 2 WAR player during his prime years.

          Franco will never hit for the average or get on base like Ramirez..

          1. Didn’t the Phillies win a world series with Pedro Feliz , Franco I hope will be a better hitter he’s still really young on a team last in scoring in the majors.

          2. I saw Feliz his entire career here. Feliz didn’t have nearly the amount of talent that Franco does. He’s young and not doing great at the moment, but he’s Feliz if he doesn’t improve at all, which is highly, highly unlikely. It’s not s good comp in my mind.

            1. Still see a little of early ARam…..he was a little up and down his first 2/3 years with the Pirates and then was able to put it together with the Cubs.
              Franco goes to DWL and maybe works on things with some measure of success in 2017.

            2. I had arguments on here about Felix. Told everyone he couldn’t go to his left. People thought he was a great fielder. but fielding stats proved he didn’t have great range. If you compare him to Franco. I would be real disappoint if franco isn’t better by a lot.

            3. Feliz was better in SF than he ever was with the Phillies. Need to look at his numbers when he was with SF.

              I just don’t see Franco hitting for average and he’s never been much of an on base guy. Ramirez was a .350 on-base player.

            4. In Aramis Ramirez first 1800 MLB PAs he had one season with a .350 OBP (655PAs)…..what was his total OBP thru his 24age season?

  19. I agree with you Romus. Middleton was very candid about the financial wherewithal of the organization and their desire to be back as an elite franchise. There is that word again. I want to see something, anything, that shows that. Sure, many Cuban players have not worked out, but certainly, a few have. And, a FA bust is a lot more costly than a Cuban signing bust. Isn’t there also a top level Japanese SP that may be posted?

    1. Matt, the old saying “meet the new boss same as the old boss” seems to apply to John Middleton’s reign as the face of owners so far. I was hoping to see more outside the box thinking in using the Phillies financial clout to sign high level International talent. Mr. Middleton, please sign a talented international free agent before the 2017 season starts. In Baltimore, MacPhail moved slower than the fans wanted him to and Klentak has not set the world on fire so far.

      1. philabalt…
        The honeymoon is still going on I guess. But at some point they will need to do something since they do have a surplus of AA/AAA/MLB ready players in the same positions. Reminds me a little of what Cherington did with the Sox in all their surplus OFers two years ago….hoarding prospects can be almost as detrimental to a rebuild then moving them in trades. Their value diminishes, plus there is there the chance of injury or production drop. Comes down to timing.
        I look at Dave Dombrowski, former Tiger now Sox GM……he moves them when their value is at its peak.

  20. Phillies making manager changes in minors. like romus said.

    by Matt Gelb, STAFF WRITER @MattGelb

    The Phillies enjoyed success throughout their minor-league system in 2016, but the men guiding those affiliates will change for 2017.

    Dave Brundage, the manager at triple-A Lehigh Valley for four seasons, was fired earlier this week, a source confirmed Thursday. The (Allentown) Morning Call first reported the news.

    Brundage, 51, led the IronPigs to 85 wins and an International League postseason berth. But the Phillies will opt for a different voice at triple A. Brundage publicly clashed in 2016 with one of the organization’s top prospects, Nick Williams, which resulted in several benchings

    1. This was almost sure to happen. Not just because of the benchings, but because there was no communication with the players that accompanied the benchings and because, rather than responding to the benchings, the players just got in a rut and did worse. Also, hitters seemed to regress in AAA and not just the expected statistical regression, either. They didn’t make progress as hitters. I’m not unhappy at all about this move.

    2. Would like to see Dusty Wathan move up from Reading to Lehigh Valley and the other managers move up a level also.

  21. I Don’t know how to post the link. But they love the Pat Borders. I think wathan goes to big league club, imo Juan Samuel must go. and the hitting coach too. With the leagues worst or near worst obp, what has he done

    1. rocco…Sammy has the Latin aspect that the club needs with their young Latin players. It would not be wise to move him out. Guys like Franco, Alfaro, Herrera, Cesar and maybe a little with Freddy, develop a kinship with him. Blanco helps , but he may not be back in 2017 since he is a FA and any team offering him at least $2/3M or so, he will be foolish not to sign with. The Phillies should match any offers.

  22. Keith Law chat:

    Bob: Lots of Phils fans anxious about the MLB team’s lack of power are a little disappointed in the HR potential of Cornelius Randolph and Mickey Moniak. Do you think either could project in the 20-25 HR range or more in the 15-18 range? That’s fine for Moniak if he’s a CF, but doesn’t do much for Randolph as a LF.

    Klaw: Don’t think Randolph’s a 20+ HR guy but he does have great bat speed and maybe he ends up surprising me because he makes harder contact. He has no physical projection, though, and that concerns me since he didn’t show power this year either.

    1. I think Moniak will generate moderate power from a quiet swing but a lot of extra base hits. Not quite Utley power but he could pop 20 in a good year.

      If Gwynn, I mean if Randolph goes .300/.350/.400, I’ll be thrilled even if he only hits 5 to 10 HRs.

      1. Yeah, assuming league average defense, that would be a solid regular in LF. Probably worth 2 WAR per year, maybe a tick above. I’d be thrilled, too.

        Just for comparison purposes, is .288/.359/..391 close enough? That’s Cesar Hernandez this year.

      2. 8mark….if CRandolph maintains his current K/BB ratio of 3::2 all the way up the ladder thru the majors, then I think his OBP could be in the neighborhood of .375/.380.

      3. I think it’s way too early to project Moniak’s power. I think he’s going to get a lot stronger and I think he has the frame to carry a lot of “good” muscle weight that is well-distributed in his body. I could see him ultimately generating the type of power someone like Jayson Werth or Joc Pederson does – but with a better hit tool. He’s going to be a work-in-progress for many years to come, but it should be fun to watch him develop.

    2. everyone hits 20 homers today- just dont know how you can see at this early stage that a guy with as good a swing as his wouldnt.
      he cant have Freddy Galvis power?

      1. Freddy completely sells out for his power, hence his .270 OBP. This is not the formula for success or even a moderately valuable offensive player.

        1. Correct – for the season he has negative offensive value. That said, lately he has been swinging much more under control, which is why I think he’s making better contact and driving more balls. He has a long way to go, but the recent performances have suggested he is not done growing as a hitter.

  23. With the acquisition of Joey Curletta today, the Phillies appear now may have maxed out their OF 40 protection.
    Barring trades looks like the seven protected will be: Altherr, Cozens, Curletta, Goeddel, Herrera, Quinn, and Williams.
    Leaves out Asche, Bourjos and Paredes who will all probably be DFAed or outright released.

    1. Why would Curletta be protected? He wasn’t one of the Dodgers Top 30 prospects. The chances of him being selected and sticking on a major league roster appear to be nil

    2. Asche plays 3rd and 1st now and Paredes can play 2nd . So Asche would be Utility depends on who playing 3rd next yr in lvh.

    3. Bourjos has player rights as a free agent. He can’t be DFA’d. Paredes is not under contract either, but he’s also Arb eligible. I doubt the Phillies extend him an offer. He’ll walk. While its very early to predict how next year’s roster will look like, I would agree that Asche is playing for a roster spot next spring. I loved seeing him hit out of the gate following his injury, but he slumped at the wrong time. One last shot in 2017

      1. Steve……Bourjos and Paredes let walk as FA like you say…Asche, has started to play first base at LHV, but he could get DFA and then resigned to a minor league contract after 10 days. if he is not picked up. Still think they decided to protect Curletta, but if they left him exposed he could be selected but do not see him sticking with another team the whole year, unless it is a Phillies scenario similar to Goeddel this year. There are probably only 3/4 teams that have the ‘luxury’ to do that.

        1. Romus – love your commentary but I think there is next to no chance they protect Curletta. While there are more difficult decisions than he, he also isn’t at risk for being selected. Its so difficult to carry a hitter all season who hasn’t yet recorded a hit at AA. Curletta has 100 unsuccessful plate appearances there, and he also doesn’t possess any standout skill (e.g. defense, speed) that can be utilized on a major league roster. I think you can rest easy at night – Curletta will be in the Fightins OD lineup come 2017.

          1. Steve…yeah that would be a better decision on their part…..though with him and Kyle Martin in Reading next season the balls could again be flying out of FirstEnergy. Don’t see them teaming up with 78 HRs like the Cozens/Hoskins duo, but can see 50 plus. Ironically, same positions but reverse batting.

  24. I am glad that the Phillies brass took note of the discussions here on Phuture Phillies and made the AAA managerial change. I hope we can continue to help them!

    1. Well they do have Luis Garcia , C Murray and many more there trying to find a BP other then Neris, Gomez and Ramos.

  25. stumbled on an interview with Joe Jordan by Jody Mac, i guess on WIP, while driving home last night. only got to hear some of it. Jody was asking about the AFL rosters, and Jordan mentioned that you get to designate one player as a priority- that they are guaranteed 4 starts this week, and they designated Kingery. Made a comparison to Chuck Knoblauch, and Jody Mac was quick to add “without the throwing problems, i hope”.

  26. Franco sitting tonight. I wouldn’t have a problem with Pete sitting him the rest of the season. Might get the message across. I want him to succeed but this is a growing pain he’ll have to work through.

    1. What message? You send “messages” to players who dog it, not guys who try too hard. Clearing his mind and letting him relax a while is one thing, but Franco is pressing – he doesn’t need anyone to send him a message.

    1. Martin Prado would be a nice sign…a veteran leader, multi=positional player, and an above average OBP guy, which they do not have many of right now……but could cost about $11/12M per year.

      1. I know the Phillies have alot of salary cap room. I REALLY Prado , Danny V for Oakland will be free agent too , EE scares me at 36 and becoming injury prone.Ian Desmond might be looking for a playoff team. There will be more between DFR and option out maybe a trade.

      2. Cargo and Blackmon could be on the trading block this winter . Phillies are dead last in runs scored need help now . Also there bullpen needs some help .

  27. Shohei Otani hit 164 km this week ! That’s 102 MPH !!!!!!!!
    Can’t wait for the Phillies to sign him when he’s finally posted.

    1. Hinkie……hope you are correct, but have my reservations with this new regime…..seem to have some similar traits of the old regime,
      This Japanese pitcher, the Cuban 23-year old, Lourdes Gourriel.
      There could be two big splashes that would indicate to the fans the Phillies’ determination in going for a WS ring.
      But I seriously do not think they will do anything, other than kick the tires, and the usual teams will proceed to get this pitcher and Cuban player.

      1. Romus they were in on both. But I just heard that because of Bill Giles and David Montgomery retirement parties. They are over budget. so we need to wait for next year. Dam party had sushi and its a lot of money.

  28. I have to say that I really do not get all of the over-the-top deference to Ryan Howard and his need to get playing time. And I say that out of respect to Ryan Howard the player (best first baseman in Phillies’ history, WAR numbers aside – he was a beast for about 6 years or so), and Ryan Howard the person (he has always been a class act and good guy – and he handled his family turning on him about as well as one could; I literally would not wish that on my worst enemy).

    But let’s take a look at the reasons to play Ryan Howard.

    1. Building for the future – this is no reason at all – he’s not part of any future. This is one of the best reasons NOT to play him.
    2. Getting a guy playing time – this is the WORST reason to play Ryan Howard. Every day he plays, Tommy Joseph or another young player does not play. This alone is reason not to play him, except sparingly and in a pinch hitting or DH role.
    3. Building a player’s value for a future transaction. This is no longer a reason to play Ryan and, if you’re honest about it, it hasn’t been a real reason for a season or two. The idea of someone picking up all or even part of that contract was a ridiculous fantasy.
    4. He helps you win today. Does he? Okay, maybe once in a while he gives you a slight incremental advantage over Tommy Joseph – but the advantage is so slight and is nowhere near as important as getting ToJo more at bats.
    5. The fans are demanding it. What fans? The fans, as a whole, are against this or neutral to it, with a small minority favoring it. In fact, all things being equal, I think the fans as a whole, would like Ryan to retire now so we can say goodbye to him politely.
    6. They are paying him a lot of money. Yeah, so what? Once it’s clear that the player cannot play and cannot be moved, it’s a sunk cost. It doesn’t justify playing a guy when, otherwise, it would not be a good idea to do so.
    7. Management wants to be nice to him. BINGO. This is pretty much the only reason why this is happening.

    Generally, professional sports teams do not do well when they make their on-field decisions on who to play based on their perception of kindness. I’m not saying that professional organizations cannot be kind or respectful. The Phillies are definitely a kind group and that kindness is evident and extends to the fans. But the notion that, to be kind and respectful, they had to play Ryan a lot, was and is ill-conceived. If that’s what they wanted to do they could have kept Ryan on the team, given him spot starts, pinch hitting appearances and had him DH against righties without giving him so much playing time. They are paying him a LOT of money. They have always treated him with respect. But for all of his importance to the team and his good natured approach, Ryan Howard is not even a replacement level baseball player and he is not part of the future. I know this team was going nowhere this year and I believe that’s why they felt they could do this. But doing this meant that players who might be going somewhere had to sit on the bench when a player who served no short term or long term importance to the organization was chosen to play.

    I like the Phillies. I think and hope this was a completely “one off” situation that will not be repeated. And I’m not trying to blow this out of proportion, the team has generally moved on from their older players. But this whole episode was kind of a stupid head scratcher to me.

    1. Well said, Catch. I tend to agree but it’s unfortunately the way the Phillies roll. One last layover from the previous brass. Perhaps a favor to Monty.

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