Open Discussion: Week of August 1st

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The Phillies dropped another game to .500 this week going 3-4 against the Marlins and Braves.  They lost 2 of 3 against Miami and split four games with Atlanta.  Their record stands at 48-59 (6-11 since the break).  The Phillies return home for a three-game series against the Giants (Bumgarner, Cueto, and Samardzija) before flying to the West Coast.

 

The Race for 1:1

The Phillies continue to drop out of contention for a wild card spot.  They still make the list on Quick Pitch when Heidi Watney lists the NL Wild Card race, but they have dropped to the last spot, 10 games behind the second wild card.

Their .449 winning percentage still gives them the 9th worst winning percentage.  They are 3 loses ahead of the team with the 10th worst record, and .001 (a half game) behind the two teams tied for the seventh worst record.

Trade Stuff and Other Miscellany

The non-waiver trade deadline is Monday at 4:00PM EST.

The Marlins settled for a lesser package of two starters from San Diego.  One of the starters had to leave the game Sunday with a sore arm.

The Phillies are reportedly holding firm on their trade requirements for Jeremy Hellickson, as they should.

The Yankees traded relievers Chapman (Cubs) and Miller (Indians).  Analysts were quick to report that the Yankees now have one of the top organizations in baseball.  One went so far as to say that this will be the first time since Jeter et al that the Yankees will be able to have a home grown major league team.  Is it really “home grown” if you have to trade for them?

Jonathan Lucroy exercised his right to veto the Trade between the Brewers and Indians. Negotiations with the Rangres have heated up.  He cannot veto a trade to Texas.

 

 

186 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of August 1st

  1. I know not to expect a ton in return this year but I have to say I’ll be a little disappointed if MK does nothing.

    1. At 4:01PM today will the Philly phaithful be saying,
      ‘All Hail Klentak”
      ‘All Hail K’
      ‘All Hail K’
      …….or something else?

  2. The only team that I would prefer to deal with right now is Texas, considering their pool of both major and minor league talent. Not likely, though. Would at least like to know what they would offer for a package of VV, Odubel, and Chooch. Or for a lesser package replacing VV with Hellickson….

    1. 8mark…….Texas does not want Hellickson….their scouts left Atlanta after Velasquez pitched his game on Friday night and did not remain for Hellickson’s game. That tells me something about who they want.
      But Chooch might be what Cole wants in the package.

      1. Makes sense, Romus. I’d be intrigued by a Texas package of Profar, Brinson, and Ortiz, for starters, and perhaps lhp Mendez though he has a history of not staying healthy.

        Maybe the 2 sides will suddenly pick up the conversation where they left off a couple days ago?

        1. 8nark….Velasquez only has about 50/60 more innings left this year before his faucet is turned off….so not sure how the Rangers would use him the remaining of the season…maybe in relief like the Astros did last year?
          Now last night one beat guy said he would take Gallo even up for Velasquez…..I was pretty shocked to hear that. Gallo has the 80-power and the also the ’80-Krate’, but with plus OBP, so a mixed bag of ‘what would we do’. He is athletic and can play three positions. However, I prefer Profar…..as one of out past posters said…he has more tools than Home Depot.

          1. I want to see three guys moved. One is ruiz to a contender for anything. He deserve a shot at winning, Paredes for a bag of donuts release him, I really cant stand watching asche either.

      2. I will take the draft choice Romus. What sense is it to give away. A veteran who right now is 29 and the anchor of a young pitching staff. For a low level. prospect. makes no sense to me. I never realize how close Kingery and Valentin are in age. Romus check out the numbers on the kid who pitched against Williamsport last night. 18 yrs old out of new York. 0.56 era. this year and last year 0.75. Career era is .059

        1. rocco…..here is his grades from MLB:
          FB: 60 | CB: 55 | CU: 55 | Control: 50 | Overall: 50
          He was a number one round pick technically…..Comp Balance pick at 42 for a ‘small market’ team like Cleveland.
          They need to do push those Comp Bal picks down a few rounds in the Rule 4.

  3. I suspect today we will see Hellickson, Ruiz, and Gomez moved in separate deals. I think the return will be A ball prospects not needing to be protected. I believe Bailey will be DFA’d.

    To replace Hellickson, it of course will be Thompson. For Ruiz, I suspect Logan Moore. For the two relievers, I’m guessing we’ll see Hinojosa and Morgan or Garcia. I also suspect we see Nick Williams with either Asche or Paredes getting DFA’d.

    1. Buddy- If Philly brings Moore up they would need to put him on the 40 man first. Do you think he would stick there over Knapp next year?

    2. Doubt much happens at all. Hope I’m wrong. Maybe bullpen gets shuffled a bit. I knew yesterday’s game was over when Bailey was warming up.

    3. i’m starting to think no one will move today. maybe chooch later in the month.

      the phillies are in a good spot. they don’t “have” to move hellickson and they can instead try try the qualifying offer route and take the sandwich pick at the end of the first round. just have to hope he doesn’t accept cause it would be like $16M.

      1. I believe it’s closer to 17 then 16 this year. Its the average of the top 125 salaries in baseball.

  4. With the crazy deals that have gone down this trade deadline I would be extremely disappointed if MK doesn’t make a deal. There have been multiple deals that should give MK presidency to aquire at least 1 top 100 prospect. Obviously, none of us r on the phones or in the room when these deals r being disscussed, but if he doesn’t get traded, the one thing he can’t say is there was no market, or teams weren’t willing to deal. This has been the craziest deadline I can remember in a long time. I mean just this past off season all the talking heads where saying how much teams r valuing young control able prospects, now they r trading them like Pokemon cards.

        1. Correct, that is what I meant. Spell checker got me twice in a row and didn’t have a chance to go back and do another post. I figured ever one could figure it out.

  5. Romus, do you recall which beat writer is still saying VV for Gallo straight up? I’d lose much respect for him/her. (Unless he’s a Rangers fan just posturing.)
    Here are Gallo’s Stats:
    AAA: 444 ABs. .223 BA. 181 Ks.
    MLB: 123 ABs. .187 BA. 66 Ks.

    While I understand Gallo is young and has great power, these stats are very bad, and they are not due to SSS. After a horrible MLB debut in June, 2015 (nearly 50% K rate), he was sent to AAA, purportedly to work on his plate discipline! So what has he done in the past year and two months? At AAA, he has had 444 ABs with 41% K rate, and he’s also gotten two small tastes of the Majors again, totaling 36 ABs, .111 BA. 23 Ks. 64% K rate!

    He’s a LH. So far in Majors he has 39 ABs. .128 BA, 23 Ks. At AAA he has 153 ABs. .183 BA, 66 Ks. (We’ve seen this lately with Howard and we’re watching Cozens be under-rated in prospect ranks as result. Gallo is still riding his awesome performances at A and AA through May, 2015. While I’m not dismissing that, he’s played a lot of baseball since and he’s barely improving.)

    Most importantly, the Phillies current FO has been telling players at all levels that promotions come when they have strong or improved plate discipline. They need to more successfully manage the strike zone. (I love that message!) Gallo just does not fit their prototype. And trading for him would send a conflicting message to all the kids they’ve been preaching to.

    The afternoon the rumors first swirled about VV to the Rangers, Winkelman wrote that a trade for VV would have to start with Mazara. And he’s absolutely right. (And I’d guess our FO feels similarly.) Both VV and Mazara are top prospects who have now had significant time in the majors and a lot of success that demonstrates they *could* be long-term studs. Given Texas has the strong need right now for a quality SP, the trade should be Mazara Plus a quality A-ball pitcher.

    I don’t believe VV will be traded though. The biggest reason may be the IP limit as has been noted above. We’ll see… If he is though, I don’t see Gallo being a part of it.

    1. JohnK……he was on with 94SportsRadio with Rick Ricardo last night around 1030PM..cannot recall his last name , but first name was John or Jon. They really didn’t get into the metric logic of the names they were throwing around in deals.

    2. John, completely agree about Gallo. Way, way too much swing and miss in his game. Trading VV straight up for Gallo would be a terrible deal for the Phillies.

      I think any VV deal with the Rangers would have to start with Profar or Mazara. And I can understand that the Rangers would not be willing to trade either one.

  6. Ok, I don’t want to argue for Gallo either way, but lets at least give the whole story. First of all, please just throw out the MLB stats, its been 139 plate appearances broken up over two stints. It’s not even worth considering that, since the sample size is so small.

    Here is Gallo’s numbers in AAA by year, instead of grouping them together like you did, without acknowledging that he made big strides this year in AAA:

    2015: 39.5 K%, 11.8 BB%, .255 ISO

    2016: 30.4 K%, 17.7% BB%, .311 ISO

    So this statement you made “While I’m not dismissing that, he’s played a lot of baseball since and he’s barely improving.” is pretty much 100% wrong.

    And not sure where you got that he has a 41% K rate in AAA, as you can see from the numbers above (from Fangraphs), that 41% number is not accurate.

    So, anyway, that ridiculous ISO, and high BB% are why u can live with the dropping K numbers in AAA.

    Can he keep that up in the majors? No idea. But I can see why ANY team would want Gallo in a trade with Texas

    1. TommyG…….his OBP is also excellent for a guy who whiffs at such a high rate.
      But I cannot help but go back to remember what Eric Longerhagen wrote last week……in the last six years he cannot find one player, but Derek Norris, in the majors who had any impact, that had a 25% or higher K rate in the minors.
      Now that is telling. IMO, I rather have Profar as the lead asset in the trade.

    2. Tommy,
      Appreciate the response. I was calculating K rate as K/AB, not K/PA as apparently I should have been. I learned something, thanks.

      However, I’m sorry, but for a player who entered this year at AAA, already with 228 PAs at AAA and 123 PAs in Majors under his belt, his performance this year was improved but still pretty bad. He hit.246 BA and 91 Ks in 299 PA (244 ABs) in his second year at AAA, I’m not impressed. Again, I’m not dismissing him, but I’m saying I would not consider trading someone proven like VV for the possible, but very unlikely, potential of Gallo.

      And I’ll restate my point regarding the Philies FO. They want their hitters to have strong plate discipline. Gallo just doesn’t fit what they like. (Thus, why I commented that I’d lost respect for a beat writer who would say Gallo for VV straight up. It’s just silly.)

    1. I think Gallo could be more like an Adam Dunn type player…..400/450 plus career HRs….240/350/875 slash line, and about 25/30% whiff rate.
      That isn’t all that bad if you can surround him with better OBP guys…like JPC, maybe Williams, Moniak and Randolph.

  7. I know this info is out there but can’t seem to find it . . . Winkelman said in the most recent Felske files that Hoskins HRs haven’t been bombs, I believe his exact words were that Hoskins doesn’t hit “moonshots” like Cozens. Then in the newest Timber Talk (Both are great Phillies Podcasts and def worth a listen) Mike Ventola who is the play by play guy for Reading says that the majority of Hoskins HRs are (uses the exact same word) moonshots. Just trying to figure out if he’s hitting wall scrapers or if he’s putting a charge into his HRs.

    1. EricD….do they have exit velocities on him and Cozens?
      Do they even do that yet in the minors?
      That may be a another way of measuring his prowess.

      1. I’m not sure, I would think with all the scouting sources and what not that they would def have that but like the HR distances, I have no clue where to find them.

    2. don’t know where that criticism came from, i saw him hit two majestic, towering hr’s in richmond in july. they were definitely not wall scrappers.

      1. I dunno that it was criticism exactly but I def remember watching his HR highlights and most seemed to be blasts. I’m still working on finding the info but if what I found is right Hoskins Hrs travel further then Cozens.

  8. For what it’s worth….

    Cozens last two dingers have been vs. Lefties (check) on the road (check)

    #splitbuster

  9. Read this on twitter: Sources: #Tigers have agreed to send OF Tyler Collins and OF Steven Moya to the #Phillies in exchange for P Jeremy Hellickson.

      1. Also from twitter, so who know at this time of year? But if will Smith can get bickford. I would also drive gomes to the airport for a guy like that for him

        Jon Heyman ✔ @JonHeyman

        giants were in on hellickson. but philly wanted good SP prospect in return. got to figure helly comes somewhere tho.

  10. Moya has some power. Collins is another asche. I would love to know why they took these two guys, Williams gets buried more. Both these guys never hit for average. are older. this trade based on the stats only. stinks.

    1. Is this true? If so I think this shows that the Phillies 1. didn’t get as much interest as many though. 2. Maybe they thought he accepts a QO

        1. rocco…..if true, I guess you are not to impressed with Matt K.’s first July deadline trade venture?

          1. I am very impressed with Matt. He stuck to his gun. Looking for value. I thought he made the trade that someone said they saw on twitter. He held his ground on Hamels too.

            1. rocco….Ruben held his ground Hamels…….you have been following too much of the Eagles practices!

    2. One good thing if it is true is that we won’t have to watch Asche anymore. Wish they could have packaged Hellickson and get more back.

  11. if hellickson is not dealt, how can they bring up thompson this year if they feel this is the time to get big league experience?

    i see 3 options:
    1. go to 6 man rotation
    2. send nola down if he bombs in his next start
    3. bring up thompson when valezquez hits his inning cap. however, i’m not sure that would happen. i’ve read his cap would be 150 innings and he’s only at 97.

    1. Velasquez if he makes every Aug start will go into Sept near 130 ip. Toss in the 5 innings he threw at Reading, the other rehab stuff off the field and the fact he had to be shutdown with a dead arm at all and I think he gets shut down after this month/very early sept. i doubt he gets to 140 ip before being shut down and def not the 150 which was the plan going into this season, but obviously that plan can(and likely has) been changed due to his dead arm period.

  12. Puig is looking like he can be had for cheap. We need to strike on this! Even if he doesn’t work out, what will it cost us? If we can get him for B level prospects we need to do it.

    1. I would obviously do my due dilligence in terms of off the field stuff, but you could be obtaining a five tool outfielder with one of the best arms I’ve ever seen to play in tiny CBP. His tools are loud and if the price is right I think it’s a high reward possibility

      1. Lsiagal I don’t agree with you. the worst thing now is to bring in a cancer like Puig. but that’s just on what I have read. and heard. I have no first hand knowledge.

        1. Romus , I know Detroit is interested in Hellickson. I’m referring to the actual trade tweet mentioned above by a poster.

    1. It would be a garbage trade. I’d much rather have Hellickson for another year. Hopefully it isn’t true.

      1. I thought that Hellickson is on a one year deal and will be a free agent at the end of the season so we either trade him or lose him.

        1. If he accepts a Phillies $17M QO then he comes back…assuming the Phillies offer him a QO!
          Cannot see them letting him walk without any compensation.

  13. This is Moya’s year 24. I remember him from Spring Training, he is 6′ 7″ and hit one over the Tiki Bar but stumbled around in LF.

    1. This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s not that he has no upside – he does have. It’s that the team already has a logjam of outfielders who are on or will need to be on the 40 man roster – adding another okay guy to that mix is not helpful unless the team sees something truly special in this player.

  14. Rumors have Tigers as looking at JHellickson….but have not seen anything on the return to the Phillies.

    1. Man relievers are fetching some good returns…I liked Bickford and Susac is a quality back-up catcher…Brewers did well in the deal.

      1. Keith Law has been saying for over a week now that San Fran was looking to trade Bickford. His velo has been down about 5 MPH this season.

  15. Phils should offer Neris. They have a lot of arms that can be a bullpen in the next 2 years.

  16. Posted this in wrong thread. So, here goes again … Sounds like Phillies were insisting on Tyler Bedee for Hellboy in a proposed deal with the Giants. Giants weren’t ok with that.

    1. Giants just let Bickford to the Brewers , so doubt they want to let another top prospect arm go.

  17. Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi)

    5 mins ago – View on Twitter
    #Rangers officially acquire Carlos Beltran from #Yankees for Dillon Tate, Nick Green, and Erik Swanson. @MLB

    Yankees hit the lottery again.

    1. Smart move. The Yankees are essentially buying a very good pitching prospect in Dillon Tate, plus getting a couple throw-ins as well. The Yankees have been the big winner in the trade deadline deals.

  18. Well no movement today I wonder what moves Mack was talking about. I wonder if you can trade Hernandez the pitcher that is can be traded in August.

  19. Funny I woke was offered 1 traded I said yes in my Dynasty league. Eovadi and Shields for Eickhoff and Yohander Mendez. I been after Mendez for 2 wks I offered better pitchers and andswer was no.

      1. I hate the giants so I hope it blows in their face. I will continue to root for the Phils until they are officially out of the playoffs run. TEX is probably the only team I can follow because of Cole and the prospects the Phils received from them.

  20. I am a little disappointed because I enjoy trade deadlines, but Hellickson gets QO, and someone signs him and Phils get Comp pick somewhere in the 30’s. I do not fault Klentak for putting a high price on him. I do want to see some movement so wonder how that will occur now.

    1. I’m a bit disappointed as well. If nothing else, with all the relief pitcher trades, you figure that Gomez and/or Hernandez might have fetched an interesting prospect. But no trade is better than a bad trade.

  21. They still have to sweat out August and September if Hellickson gets hurt or gets hit around that QO goes down the drain.

    1. There is also a looming CBA. Players are very unhappy how the QO tag with draft pick penalty to signing team drives down their suitors. Then there is the question of when will FA actually start? The CBA expires in Dec. Those two things may have big impact on Hellicksons decision to sign. In the next CBA players will prob be under less restrictive system.

    1. Yeah, it could turn out to be just that. At the very least, it’s extremely odd that there was no movement at all. We will see later this year whether Klentak overplayed his hand. CSN had a good article regarding the scarcity of free agent SP options this winter – it gave me some optimism that, in fact, Hellickson might decline the offer, but that’s far from assured. What we don’t know, of course, is what type of offers he was declining.

      1. Catch … your question, “what type of offers he was declining?” is a good one. The one option he may have turned down may have been Helickson for Josh Naylor. The Marlins got Andrew Cashner and minor league reliever Tayron Guerrero for Naylor. At least that’s what the Padre deal ended up being after Colin Rea got injured. Would you have traded Hellickson for Naylor ? Naylor was the 12th overall pick in 2015. But, I can understand Klentak taking a pass on him. He’s got an issue with his weight. He can only play 1B. I think the Phillies were looking more for arms.

    2. If RAJ was here, we would be buyers and would have traded Rhys Hoskins, Jake Thompson, C Randolph, and a PTBNL (Franklyn Kilome) to the NYY for Carlos Beltran, and then signed Beltran to a 2 year extension, with a third year player option at $20M.

  22. I know lots of people are disappointed Klentak didn’t move Hellickson. I’ve been fine, all along, with offering him a QO. If he stays healthy, I’m very confident he (and Scott Boras) will decline it. A late first round draft pick can net a very high upside prospect. Aaron Sanchez, Noah Syndergaard, Joe Ross, Zach Eflin, Joey Gallo, Aaron Judge, Michael Kopech, and AJ Reed are just some of the guys taken in the late first/early second rounds in recent drafts. The extra 2+million slot dollars will also be a big deal next June. The Phillies farm system is deep enough that they didn’t have to settle for a few second tier prospects. Go for a top prospect in a very good 2017 draft !

    1. Forgot to mention … many other late first/early second round picks have been later used as trade chips for landing established stars. Lewis Brinson is the most recent example.

    2. Operative phrase….’if he stays healthy’.
      Amaro lucked out with Hamels last year. He stayed healthy.
      Did not luck out with Lee in 2014.
      So better hope Hellickson stays healthy over these next 8 weeks.

    3. it’s definitely a gamble to ask for a steep price for Hellboy rather than settling for less. realistically, a couple of A+ prospects is a fair compensation. but with the depth of the farm right now and the good results from the last 2 drafts — the Phils can afford to gamble on losing a couple of A+ for a ticket to get a Top 50 draft prospect in 2017 rule IV.

      1. just to add, the Phils gave up Sam McWilliams to get Hellboy. so even if lady luck didn’t go to the Phils way — we can say that Phils lost a A level prospect for innings saved for the young arms. I think it’s not really a big loss considering the depth of the farm.

        as much as I like to trade Hellboy (to see Jake gets promoted) — it’s really a smart gamble on the part of the Phils FO. they can turn a Sam McWilliams to a potential Top 50 draft prospect.

      2. KuKo…..I hope he stays healthy and the Phillies QO him and he listens to his agent and tests the FA market and there is a buyer that would want him for 4 years or so at maybe $64/68M….lots of ‘ifs’ there.

        1. @romus – I think the FO sees that shallow SP market this winter and banking that Hellboy will be a top target for teams starved for SP. Heck, JA Happ got a nice contract last year so Hellboy and Boras will try and get something better than that.

          worst case scenario is — losing Hellboy means losing Sam McWilliams. That’s an acceptable price for me for the innings pitched by Hellboy this year. The rise of Ranger, Sixto, Fanti and other young SPs in GCL and WIL will make losing Sam McWilliams easier.

          1. KuKo…….I see your point.
            JH is a 9WAR player over 7 years….very inconsistent and his best years were 4/5 years ago until this season, so there is some gamble involved. Over 90% of the players have rejected the QO over the last 3/4 years…..but last winter Wieters (Boras guy) and LADs Anderson accepted it….but they were different circumstances then Hellickson, so that is favorable for the Phillies that he will not accept. Now will a team invest in him and risk losing their first round pick outside the top ten selections?

          2. Quite honestly, I think this whole debate about Hellickson is a tempest in a teapot.

            The Phillies weren’t likely to get game changers for him, and if he leaves in whatever way at whatever price, it’s unlikely to be a game changer.

            The gamer changers are in the system now or can be traded for in a year or two when it matters.

            This is Phuture Phillies and the Phuture is with those Phillies on the Pharm.

            1. What wasn’t known widely approaching the deadline was the extent to which the Pirates, borderline competitive for a WC and with a rich farm system, was intent on shedding salary and succeeded in doing so in dumping 3 of its 4 more expensive players based on AAV (Liriano, Melancon and Niese) at the deadline.

              From this standpoint, the Phils were very well positioned to take back a bad contract (Liriano, Niese or even Michael Morse) while swapping Hellickson for probably 2 prospects in the 6-10 range from a deep farm system.

              Hellickson would easily slot into the Pirate’s rotation whereas Hutchinson, acquired by Piittsburgh for Liriano, was sent to AAA. The Pirates picked up Ivan Nova for 2 PTBNL, presumably not involving any salary dump.

              In sum, the Phils could have done business today that would have assisted the rebuild for picking up a bad contract that would expire at the end of the year.

  23. The Ghost of Amaro haunts the Phillies GM position. The Phillies DFR David Hernandez, Andy Bailey , send down Sev .bring up Garcia , Dalier and Thompson. Not true just guessing.

    1. Tim…seriously….. look at the farm system lately….Amaro made trades, especially when he was a lame-duck GM the last 15 months. . Contracts , on the other hand, forgetabouit.

      1. Romus, perhaps the old ownership was driving the contract issue and told him what to do. Klentak was too conservative in my estimation this deadline.

        1. Agree philabaltfan.
          I look at other GMs….especially AJ Preller from SD, who use to be with the Rangers….and even Jon Daniels of the Rangers…..Braves new guy Coppola (sp)…and they still remain aggressive in reloading the farm and getting the MLB players they need.
          Matt K is new in one sense and the system is better now then prior years, so I guess he feels there is no need to just make a trade if it is not what he wants in return. But there are risks ‘standing pat’ and waiting to a later date…especially with pitchers.

      2. I was kidding we know Macphail running the ship he has guts . Between and the end of the yr if anything goes wrong with Hellickson the QO and anything else we could have have received for him goes coput .

    2. I see there’s some Amaro , David Hernandez, Andrew Bailey love on the board . Sorry I said the Amaro comment in jest .

  24. Let’s say the Phillies are contenders in 2018 does it really matter who the Phillies draft in 2017 at the 40 pick sure just not as much .the Major thing is the prospects we have now and there rise to the big leagues.

    1. The Cubs are contending now, and they’ve used their farm system to cement their status as favorites for this year’s WS.

    2. @Tim – assuming the Phils are contenders in 2018, it’s true that the comp pick (from Hellboy) may not contribute to the 2018 play off run. however, that pick (which is most likely a potential Top 100-150 prospects by next year) can be an asset that the Phils can use to acquire a player that will/might help the 2018 Phillies.

      So directly, the comp pick (or any the 2017 Rule IV picks) will not help the 2018-2020 Phillies, but they can be “assets” that can be used to plug the holes so indirectly they have value to the team.

        1. Tim….were do you get this 2 billion dollar thing from?
          It is $65M this year……..in the year 2041 or there abouts, it will come out to total $2B over the 25 year life of the contract.

          1. The Comcast contract or just there in Philly a major city too . They haven’t spent a dime of the Comcast money if you put that in the bank it will grow plus Middleton.

        2. the FA $$ to me is another aspect.

          point is — $$, draft picks and prospects acquired (via trade or FA) are assets that teams can use improve their team. there’s no downside to that, so better have them than not.

          1. Ok if Hellickson gets hurt or doesn’t keep producing that’s the downside . You get zip for him if he rocked say his Era goes above 5 his value goes down. Plus the new CbA might chance things.

            1. Tim……the new CBA negotiations start in December….players contracts officially end, (those on an expiring contract), right after the WS in November……they could be grandfathered under the old CBA and the QO system that went into place in 2013, while players with existing long-term contracts go under the new CBA guidelines.

  25. The Cubs were the favorites before the trades . I don’t think a 2017 pick is going to help out in 2018 . I just saying it’s a hi risk move and it could still fail.for most part Boston as had the trades. Now the Yanks have the best future trades.

    1. Tim … Phil Bickford (Giants), Joshs Naylor (Marlins), Dillon Tate (Rangers) were all 2015 first round draft picks traded in the past few days to help their teams compete for a WS this year (2016). Also, Dansby Swanson was dealt in the off-season as part of the Diamondbacks’ plan to go “all-in” this year. If the Phillies want to flip their 2017 pick(s) to help them compete in 2018, it won’t be a problem.

      1. I’m ok with that part of it . It’s the now everything has to far right into place aka Hellickson has to stay healthy he has to proform at his current right. He has to sign then QO if he blows his arm out the Phillies get nothing. Hellickson could far apart and drive his value down then he has to give up 17 mil for a yr. Like Eric said he could sign a 17 mil contract. Then sign a bigger one 5 he following yr. All this could happen if we traded for a couple Lowe a prospect it’s done and over .

  26. I’m going to hold my breath until a QO is officially turned down . . . I just don’t see him doing that.

    1. It’s close to 17m
    2. He’s still young enough to collect the 17m AND still get a multi year deal in 2018
    3. 2 comparable pitchers (Rich Hill and Cashner no longer will have a QO attached to them
    4. Like us, rebuilding teams won’t give up a pick for a 4th/5th starter
    5. Teams with a weak farm system isn’t going to give up that pick either
    6. Boras clients make up 33% of those who have accepted a QO (haha)

    I mean I dunno if you play it this way or if you even can . . . but do you tell him if he accepts an offer that he’ll prob be in the bullpen due to wanting to get a full year of VV/Nola/Eickhoff/Eflin/Thompson.

    1. EricD….only 3 players out of 54 have accepted the QO……and like you say only one of the 3 were Boras clients.
      And not sure that is a proper thing to do by indicating he would be headed to the bullpen if he comes back…..the Phillies may want to try to trade him next July as a starter.

      1. That why I put (haha) . . . like most media outlets I made the number work for my argument there, even if it was skewed. You say they may want to trade him next July, are you pitching with a 6 man rotation? Because you’d have 6 guys for 5 spots. I get that there’s 99.9% chance you need more then 5 guys to get through a year but it would still be an issue at the start of the season.

      2. Here’s another spin by not trading Hellickson or Gomez or David Hernandez. While teams were getting worse under the phillies some of the teams above them were getting worse .. The Yanks , Angels , Brewers were above them so are white sox, KC .by not trading anyone the Phillies may have increased there likely hood of drafting lower with thier# 1 pick . So by taking a risk to gain a 40 pick they actually lowered there chances of a higher draft chioce.

  27. Yep see that’s smart andswer this call from up top .Hellickson Value is at his highest right now.

  28. Whatever happens, Hellickson will not be pitching for the Phillies in 2017. If he’s good enough to get a QO, he’ll decline it and we’ll get a pick. If he turns into a pumpkin, he doesn’t get the QO, and he leaves as a FA.

  29. According to Jim Salisbury on Talk Philly (CSN), The Phillies and Marlins were moving towards a trade, but the Marlins suddenly asked for a second pitcher. Salisbury believes they asked for Jerad Eickhoff. Is that the kind of deal those of you who are upset wanted Klentak to make? Klentak can’t hold a gun to another GM’s head and force him to fork over a top
    prospect. He did the right thing … hope to flip Helickson for a first round pick. It’s a risk worth taking. As someone else mentioned, they only gave up Sam McWilliams for Hellboy.

    1. No way any of the current starters would I have included. However, I would have offered Morgan or Buchanan, or both for that matter :), since they have MLB experience and could fill in a rotation spot.
      Not a huge fan of Naylor but Castillo would have been interesting.

  30. I would not have done that at all. But, look at what the Pirates gave up to dump Liriano. They got Hutchison, not close to Hellickson. That is what Klentak should have done. It means nothing for us to take on money, and Toronto got 2 legitimate prospects. That is a deal I would have done, or something along those lines.

  31. Just another side note on Hellickson and the QO . . . . . and think about this . . The QO would be more then he’s made in his WHOLE CAREER . . . . combined. If someone told me I could make more then i’ve make in 7 years, in one year . . . i’m not risking it, i’m a Phillie in 2017

  32. Eric you beat to it lol I was just about to say that. Anyway Hellickson best month is July 13 – 5 2.60 Era his major weakness is the HR ball guess the number’s in sept and November not that good by a far margin.

  33. For all the Puig wanters:
    :”Dodgers outfielder Yasiel Puig “stormed off” and did not travel with the team to Colorado on Monday after being told that he would be either traded or demoted, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal writes. The Dodgers did not trade him before today’s 3:00pm deadline. It’s unclear what the team’s next move might be.”
    The drama continues.

    1. I gotta think there are some teams right now who loved to hear that. Puig IMO still has value (to another team) . . . He’s still young, isn’t making over 9.3m in any of his 2 years remaining and there’s obvious talent there . . . if I’m seeing this correctly he’s basically in the midst of his worst season and he’s still a league average player. He can be a nice complimentary piece as long as he matures. If I acquired him I’d sit him down and let him know he’s the starter until either 1. He proves he isn’t capable of it 2. His attitude gets in the way I’d make it clear that he’s getting a second chance w/ a change of scenery but that second chance could be taken away easily. Williams/Herrera/Puig COULD be pretty good. I’d def have to weigh my risk/reward but I think the reward is higher.

      If you had to guess what do you think the Dodgers would want for him and what would you offer for him? (Maybe he clears? or Maybe the Phillies claiming priority is high enough that they could claim him) I know for some the answer is, “I wouldn’t offer anyone for him” . . . Hellickson for Puig? I would have done that. Neris for Puig I would have done as well. Not sure either one gets it done however with everything going on over in LA who knows?

      1. I would avoid Puig.
        And the Dodgers may sell low now.
        He could be DFAed to see who has interest.
        Then maybe a waiver-deal trade this month.
        Dodgers probably would look for a prospect from a teams top ten list.
        Reddick is headed for RF now so a MLB player is not required unless they can get a pitcher.

        1. If push came to shove….who would I offer?….. I would offer David Buchanan……he has turned his season around at LHV.

  34. You guys are forgetting the other QO outcome if Hellickson is offered and turns down a Qualifying Offer. His agent could hold him out until after the Rule 4 Draft when draft pick compensation would no longer be an obstruction to a contract. I’m not saying this a likely outcome or a smart outcome. But, Scott Boras has used this tactic in the past. I think this would be the “worst case” scenario.

  35. Rangers benefitted by Lucroy voiding trade to Cleveland and it brought up the Cole Hamels trade last year. Does anyone recall what the proposed return would have been from the Astros?

    1. That’s actually an interesting question . . . I’d be curious to know what the believed package was how many of the following were in that deal: VV, Appel, Aruaz or Eshelman.

  36. Ok Cbssportonline.com biggest losers Phillies Sporting news same , The Ringer same , Sb nation same. I didn’t on my sites now when 1 or 2 say it who cares but when most of the baseball sites are in agreement it can’t be far off. I didn’t know Hellickson Fip 4.11 that’s bad .

  37. I am disappointed as I do not see Hellickson or Gomez being worth any more than they are now. I can see other teams thinking those players will ‘regress to the mean’ but for a playoff push they only need to be ‘good’ for 2 more months.
    Also with the horrible catching options out there, I could see a team wanting Ruiz.
    Getting anything for Bourjos would have been worth it to me, but likely the return would be nothing better than a projectable reliever with many issues but may be able to get that in August.

    I have no idea what the Phillies were offered but I can at least see which prospect WERE ACTUALLY traded, so they were at least AVAILABLE at some price. I have significant risk aversion to keeping Hellickson for the possibility of at Top40 draft pick. Now that some of his peers were traded and cannot be QO’d they will become more valuable to be signed as FA by not have a draft pick tied to them.

    Prospects I would have taken for Hellickson and if needed, include Gomez and Ruiz and any other marginal piece if that makes the deal possible:

    Lewis Brinson
    Clint Frazier
    Gleyber Torres
    Anderson Espinoza
    Dillon Tate
    Justus Sheffield
    Luis Ortiz
    Grant Holmes
    ——————
    Phil Bickford
    Billy McKinney
    Dilson Herrera
    Frankie Montas
    Josh Naylor
    Harold Ramirez
    Lucious Fox
    Luis Castillo
    Travis Demeritte
    Dan Vogelbach

    I doubt Phillies could have gotten anyone above the dotted line. Bickford would have been who I wanted if I were the Phillies.
    Giants traded BOTH Bickford and Susac for a Relief Pitcher! Will Smith is not just a rental so that does add value but I have to think that Philles could have gotten Bickford. Fox seems more risky as just a speed guy but I would have taken him as another Quinn possibility.

    I could see Pirates as a good trade partner. They traded away Melancon and could have put Gomez into closer role for cheap. Or swap Hellickson for Lirano or Niese and stuff which would give Phillies a possible lefty starter.

    I just see the Phillies cutting a bunch of guys soon due to the upcoming prospects this offseason. Why not get anything for them?

  38. Not to Hijack the 8/1 Box Score recap thread any further with the events of the last 24 hours I am really surprised everyone is so surprised we didn’t make a move.

    We didn’t have anything of value and as good as Hellickson has been he is still a Boras client who is a FA at the end of the season and I’m sorry even if Bourjos was healthy he brings you nothing we don’t already have in the system.

    And as for Gomez no one was interested enough in a guy that never closed before to give up the names you mention above. Do you seriously believe Jean Mar compares to Will Smith????? Let alone Chapman or Miller. You’d be very mistaken Smith’s K/9 is near double that of Gomez.

    You can’t just throw all these names out there and not match the team need with the player returned for the prospects traded.

    1. Couldn’t agree more DMAR. The bottom line is that none of the arm chair GM’s on here have the slightest clue what Klentak was offered for any of Hellickson, Gomez, D. Hernandez, Ruiz or Neris. Let’s forget entirely about Bourjos who is hurt and had no value anyway.

      I see it this way, Hellickson is providing quality innings right now and VV will be shut down at some point in the near future, so he fills that opening. Plus I have to believe they will want to limit the innings on Eickhoff, Eflin and Nola, so Thompson can come up and be the 6th man when one is needed. That all kind of lines up in my mind.

      Would it have been nice to sell high (in theory) on Hellickson, of course, but with the depth in the system it doesn’t make sense to trade a player who is currently helping the MLB team for a lottery ticket, we have plenty of those already. So Klentak was right to ask for a “good” prospect. As for what happens with the QO, we will have to wait and see, but I think people are over-thinking the risk there.

      As for the other players, Gomez would have been the one to move, but we don;t know what was offered if anything. He doesn’t have the “stuff” teams are generally looking for in a high leverage reliever. Maybe a waiver deal for him is possible.

      Hernandez has been terrible, I would be shocked if there was any interest there. Ruiz has value as a teacher and mentor and again wouldn’t have brought much back. Now, if he wanted to go to a contender, I would trade him because I feel he’s owed that much.

      Neris to me has future closer potential and personally I would rather have him around, that being said if there was a good offer, I certainly would have listened.

      The bottom line is this team and the pharm are showing enough potential that they don’t need to divest themselves of assets simply for the sake of doing so. There is value to stability and winning some games for these kids. There is also value in letting their prospects learn in the minors for a bit longer.

      This is not the end of the world by any stretch of the imagination and in the long run it may well prove to be the smartest play by the FO.

      1. Kim- Interesting that you refer to people who don’t agree with you as “arm chair gms” then proceed to do the exact same thing by speculating on things that you don’t have all the knowledge about.
        We are all “arm chair gms” it’s part of being a fan and it’s actually quite enjoyable to have spirited debates about our favorite teams.

    2. IMO – a package of Hellboy + Buch or Morgan + PTBNL (either a BP arm or low minor prospect) is better than what MIA received from SD. I know that Klentak is not enamored with Naylor but the packaged sent by MIA is a good haul for the Phils while creating roster spots for younger arms.

      1. Probably the most underrated part of that trade is Carter Capps. I feel like he has the opportunity to be a high leverage reliever when he comes back from injury.

  39. Someone said Mack is good with the Hispanic players. If that is so he better get with Franco and get his head screwed on straight. Franco could be an incredible talent for this team but his approach is trending in the wrong direction.

    Consider he has only 2 less walks last season than this season in only 76 less PA’s dropping his OBP from 343 to 304.

    1. DMAR….he seems to be one off those young free-swinging streaky hitters….will go 10 games with 7/8 bombs and look like the next Adrian Beltre, then 10 without any and bunches of Ks. Maybe he just needs a little more time to mature to find his plate discipline.

  40. Glad nobody was traded, bring up a couple of guys from the minors next year and Phillies will be in the playoffs.
    Middle of the order will be tough, Altherr – Franco, Joseph, Rupp.

  41. I really like the lineup with Altherr adding some power. Just think about when Crawford and Williams come up. Rupp is having a great year hitting and will only get better calling the games. I think Hernandez is playing himself into keeping the starting spot until next year, his style is probably better suited for the lead-off spot. Galvis will be the super utility guy able to play multiple spots, his bat and glove aren’t good enough for everyday.

    My starting lineup next year:

    2B – C. Hernandez (S)
    RF – A. Altherr (R)
    CF – O. Herrara (L)
    3B – M. Franco (R)
    LF – N. Williams (L)
    1B – T. Joseph (R)
    SS – JP Crawford (L)
    C – C. Rupp (R)

    Any thoughts on giving A. Knapp a chance to backup both Rupp & Joseph and get him 300 ABs next year? This would allow all players to prove value.

    1. Granted, Cesar H has done well at the plate lately. My concern is that he’ll fall off the table suddenly and be a liability by end of season, which is his pattern. He did have a poor AB last night after being up 3-0 count, swung at last 2 pitches out of the zone and K’d. Lacks confidence, discipline, and is unsound fundamentally. This is what, his 3rd or 4th season in big leagues? He’s probably sticking around until Kingery arrives.

      1. Agree with you on Hernandez, he hasn’t broken 1000 ABs in the majors yet and shows to be a good placeholder for Tobias or Kingery.

        Galvis has had more than enough ABs to establish himself. Much like Asche, we know what is there.

    2. @John – I agree on the following: 1) JPC and Nick will be in 2017 roster; 2) Rupp will be a regular starter; 3) Galvis will be a super UTIL bench. However, I don’t agree with you about Cesar — he is just keeping the bench warm for Kingery and I think the Phils will take any opportunity to get of value from him. We’ve seen him for 4 years now and we’ve seen a good but expendable MLB player.

      I also see the same roster line up for next year but with different order:

      CF – Doobie (L)
      RF – Altherr (R)
      SS – JPC (L)
      3B – Franco (R)
      1B – Joseph or C – Rupp (R)
      LF – Nicky (L)
      1B – Joseph or C – Rupp (R)
      2B – Hernandez (S) or Galvis (S)

      BENCH: C/1B/LF Knapp (S) ; 2B/SS Galvis (S)/Hernandez (S), 2B/SS/CF Sweeney, 1B/LF/RF Perkins (R) and LH Free Agent or Rule V (unless Phils rolls the dice on Asche again or Stassi). Goedell will play in AAA and Klentak might still keep Featherston and play him in AAA.

      1. Very much agree with respect Kingery, that’s why I only forecasted 2017 lineup. Hernandez is just a place holder.

        As for Crawford in the 3-hole, he’d need to establish some power beforehand. Herrara offers that right now. Not sure about Knapp playing LF, but I get the picture of moving him around to get ABs.

        I would even consider R. Quinn as the 4th OF letting him get 300 ABs, we already know he can’t stay healthy for a full season. He would be a great late game pinch runner and guy to give relief. He’ll establish value if staying healthy and perform well. Not sure what else he needs to show in the minors skill wise, aside from staying healthy.

  42. Like I said before by not moving anyone the Phillies could be better then some teams there behind now. The Yanks, Seattle , Brewers , Rockies they lost Story, even teams like Pittsburgh , White Sox and KC are Sinking fast. The playoff teams are the Nats, Marlins, Cubs, Cardinals, Giants, Dodgers.Al Boston , Toronto, Baltimore , Indians, Detroit , Texas, . HOUSTON just lost McCullers to an Elbow injury , Indians lost Salazar for 3 wks. The Philies do need a lot of help in the bullpen after Gomez , Neris, and Ramos . I’m getting sick of the retreads
    Like Garcia and Sev plus David Hernandez too. Mk been trying to fix this BP all yr.my pt the Phillies could gain in the Standing because they didn’t make a move . By doing that the Phillies could draft later in next yrs draft. Think about it trade Hellickson , Gomez , Heris the bp would be horrible. the starting might be the same but probably worse because some will be on an ing count .so by keeping everyone they might gain a comp 40 pick but there first pick might be 15 instead of 10.

    1. Looking at the top free agents this off season, I would like to go after a closer like Kenley Jansen. Solidify our bullpen with Neris, Ramos and Gomez as late inning options.

      1. You haven’t learned your Papelbon lesson. No need to pay for closers. Let them evolve organically or acquire them in a trade just not the one the Astros did for Giles.

  43. Have to say that I’m really impressed with Altherr’s poise, confidence and maturity, not to mention his early results coming back from a serious injury. And tools!

    1. I am becoming a huge Altherr fan. As I’ve said before, he caught my eye in a AA game early last year – he didn’t have a great game (he was fine, I think he got one hit), but I came away from that game impressed at what a fine overall baseball player he had become. He’s only progressed from that point and is now showing some very legitimate power and nice plate discipline. We will see how the league adjusts to him and how he adjusts in return, but I think he ceiling is as a first division regular, occasional all-star. He does pretty much everything well, to the point where you would be tempted to make him the centerfielder.

  44. Ken Giles now the closer for the Astros going down the stretch.
    The trade seems to balancing from what the Astros wanted from it.
    From early May, Giles has put up 29 scoreless outings in 33 appearances, striking out 47 batters to go with a 1.74 ERA.

  45. Seranthony is dominating again today at Lakewood – tremendous. I don’t ever remember a time when all of these potential top of the rotation arms, just appeared seemingly out of nowhere and dominated.

    By the way, now that we see the new regime in action, some of my concerns have been alleviated. I was concerned that this management team would only be focused on acquiring pitching, at the expense of hitting. As I watch them, I don’t think that’s precisely their angle. While I do think they value pitching for the major league team and are trying to acquire pitching, I think their view is that pitching is the most valuable currency and they are willing to leverage good arms to acquire bats. In other words, I think they are also very much focused on offense. Second, I was a little worried that Johnny Almaraz would be focused on command at the expense of velocity and upside (based on his comments). I’m not entirely sure that’s accurate either – certainly the young latin prospects are showing tremendous velocity as a group.

    1. Sorry Catch, Seranthony Dominguez hit a wall in the 4th and is now pitching like Sir Anthony Hopkins.

      But I definitely agree with you on the brass.

  46. I want to see it in 2017 when Franco may have 30 and Joseph 30 and Altherr 25 and Rupp 25 and Odubel 20 and the LF platoon Williams, Cozens and Hoskins with 25.

  47. This teams do young they don’t know they suppose to lose do that they can get a high draft pick next yr.bad bad team lol told ya there move up some of the teams above them aren’t that good.

  48. Someone needs to explain to me how Cody Asche is still on the roster, let alone getting at bats.

    1. He had a 13 pitch at bat last night that 1 at bat might have gotten Cueto in trouble later. A game within a game. ASCHE has his issues by can play smart baseball.

      1. He has absolutely no value now, or moving forward. Let’s find out if any of our other OFs can play “smart baseball” and do it with some actual ability, b/c we know Asche cannot.

        He is what he is: .241/ .299/ .389. That’s not a MLB starter. Not even a bench player. Time to move on.

  49. Nola’s 4Sm FB velo vs his 2Sm velo.
    Virtually identical with maybe only a mph separation.
    It would be great if he could increase his 4Sm velo 2/3 more ticks, if that is at all possible.
    Though overall, he only uses the 4Smr 14% vs 44% for the 2Smr. but may make a difference against a hitter..
    Game…………………..4Seam…..2Seam
    BAL@PHI (4/1/16) 0.00—- 92.35
    PHI@CIN (4/6/16) 90.58— 89.38
    SDN@PHI (4/11/16) 92.27— 91.36
    WAS@PHI (4/16/16) 91.46— 90.90
    PHI@MIL (4/22/16) 90.97— 90.66
    PHI@WAS (4/28/16) 92.01— 91.02
    PHI@SLN (5/3/16) 92.43— 90.97
    PHI@MIA (5/8/16) 90.98— 90.84
    CIN@PHI (5/14/16) 92.38— 90.79
    ATL@PHI (5/20/16) 89.49— 90.38
    PHI@DET (5/25/16) 92.22— 90.40
    WAS@PHI (5/31/16) 91.21— 91.50
    MIL@PHI (6/5/16) 0.00— 90.34
    PHI@WAS (6/11/16) 91.76— 91.23
    TOR@PHI (6/16/16) 92.51— 91.71
    PHI@MIN (6/21/16) 92.37— 90.72
    PHI@SFN (6/26/16) 89.83— 90.61
    KCA@PHI (7/2/16) 88.28— 89.77
    MIA@PHI (7/18/16) 92.56— 90.78
    PHI@PIT (7/23/16) 89.37— 89.50
    PHI@ATL (7/28/16) 90.60— 89.14

    1. Nola needs to watch that elbow first, the Dodgers have 12 pitchers on IR 12 , Most are elbow related , Angels are up to 4 Tj surgeries this yr. Nola with his release pt could a nasty knuckle curve or forkball.

  50. May already be posted, but on the recap for today’s loss to the Giants it quotes Mack as saying that Thompson as being brought up and starting on Saturday

  51. Yeah but it’s still nice to hear it seems like there trying different relievers thank God. The only sure ones are Neris , Ramos , and Gomez , I’d heard Mack likes Mariot and his sinker so do I. HOLT has to stay he’s the only LEFTY D Hernandez once his replacement is found he can b DFA . Sev needs a lot of help he needs LHV for a yr.I’d bring up Hermann, Joey Rodriguez , and who else they can to fill out 2 more spots.

  52. BP Scouting the GCL …..Steve Givarz
    1. Kyle Young….Extra-large frame and body, listed at 6’10” 205. Extremely long levers, pitches from a ½ windup, soft stab arm action, ¾ slot, good extension on pitches. Fastball 89-90, looks to be getting on side of ball and would lose the ball arm-side. Curveball 75, soft break, lacks sharpness, more of a show-me offering. Intriguing projectable arm, name to keep an eye on down the road.
    2. Nick Fanti…..Lean, slender body, has some physical projection remaining. Pitches from a ½ windup, easy delivery, has some deception because of ease in delivery, twisting stab arm action, 3/4 slot. Fastball 87-89 T90, lacks life, lowered to 86-87 as game progressed. Curveball 78-79, not a sharp pitch, 2/8 shape, rolls into zone, fine for this level but needs better action. Changeup 83-84, deceptive arm speed, lacks life. Lower round sign, needs to add weight to overall frame, lower level SP depth.
    3. Josh Stephen…Some physical projection remaining. Hits from an even stance, above-average bat speed, short swing to the ball, line-drive stroke, lacks loft, lacks strength right now but should improve. 55 runner. Below-average arm, might have to move to LF but should stay in CF for time being. Intriguing player, really like the swing and has a good idea of hitting, long-term outlook is a potential 4th OF
    4.Tyler Frohwirth……Pitches from the stretch only, slinger arm action, below-average arm speed, submarine slot. Fastball 75-76, some late tumble. Slider 67-70, not a sharp pitch, sweeper break, sweeps to the plate. No changeup thrown. Different look guy, lower-level relief depth.
    5. Jhaily Ortiz…..Already large; strong muscular body, still young at 17 and has room for physical growth. Current plus-plus raw power, takes balls out from LF-RCF with considerable loft, could improve given age and future added strength. Long levers, slightly longer swing, hands not quick but is able to cover most areas of the plate, exposed on outer half and decent breaking balls, should improve with more repetitions and improved plate discipline. Defensively he doesn’t take the best routes on hit balls but is a better runner than size would indicate and is able to close on balls. Moderate arm strength, 40 runner. Raw power is the calling card but has a good feel to hit, body needs to be monitored or otherwise a move to 1B is in the future.
    6.Geury Ortiz…..Pitches from a full windup, drop and drive delivery, compact arm action, ¾ slot. Fastball 89-91, some late two-seam action but not a ton of movement. Curveball 74-77, 11/5, some downer action but inconsistent. Changeup 84-86, lacking feel for pitch. Lower-level relief depth.
    7. Luis Gonzalez…..Physical projection remaining given body and relative lack of experience, older for level. Pitches from a full windup, soft arm stab, ¾ slot. Fastball 91-93, lacks movement. Slider 77-79, slurvy pitch, lacked consistent action. One changeup at 84. Good size and arm action, older to baseball, lower-level relief depth.
    8. Luis Carrasco….Lean, slender body, larger than 170, closer to 180-185, some physical projection remaining. Pitches from a full windup, stiff delivery, slightly closed off, needs to improve mobility and flexibility, compact arm action with quick arm, ¾ slot. Fastball 92-94 T96, mild movement, lacked control. Slider 80-81 T83, soft action with mild break, lacked tilt. No changeup seen in outing. Interesting arm, big arm strength guy, more likely a reliever down the road. Potential bullpen arm
    9. Sixto Sanchez….Pitches from a full windup, clean, smooth arm action with above-average arm speed, ¾ slot. Fastball 93-97 T98, good arm strength, some mild run in the bottom of the zone. Curveball 81-84, lacks consistent action and shape, best ones had vertical action and bite. Intriguing pitcher, size will always be held against him and might be a better fit in the bullpen.
    10. Kale Fultz…..Workhorse build, lacks remaining projection. Pitches from a full windup, high arm action that is long in the back, below-average arm speed, ¾ slot. Fastball 85-87 T88, lacks movement. Curveball 70-73, soft pitch with early break, 11/5 shape. Slider 78-79, moderate tilt and action, not sharp. Lower-level relief depth.
    11. Caleb Eldridge…Strong, muscular frame and body, lacks remaining physical projection. Fair raw power, can take it out from RF-CF, more strength than bat speed. Below-average bat speed, lacks feel for the zone, fair amount of present swing-and-miss, lacks pitch recognition. Fair athlete, works fair around the bag. Did not see arm tested in looks. Lower level 1B depth.

  53. Lol Fanti 3 people I know who saw says his FB has crazy movenent. He was pitcher of the month and throws up crazy stats. Even in scouting to error is human you could catch the pitcher on the wrong day.you could also be having a bad day yourself .

    1. Fanti gets it up 3/4 ticks more on his velo and he can become a prospect with a lot of potential as a starter.

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