Box Score Recap – 7/21/2016

Will Morris teased Threshers’ fans with a perfect game into the sixth inning.  He walked two batters with two out in the inning and took his no-no into the seventh.  A one-out HR ended both the no-hitter and the shutout.  He completed the inning and turned the final two innings over to the bullpen. He finished with a combined two-hitter.

Bailey Falter tossed six shutout innings for Williamsport.  He struck out ten and walked one, but didn’t figure in the decision.

Offensively, Rhys hit another home run, his 27th.

And, Jhailyn crushed anotherbomb to left center.  He doesn’t hit any cheap or wind-aided home runs.  He now has 6 in 20 games. His first 20 games as a professional.  He didn’t take a pro at bat last summer after being drafted.  His six home runs have come in 77 at bats. He makes loud contact.  The kind that stops conversations mid-sentence.  And, he’s only 17 (doesn’t turn 18 until November).  Imagine his development as he refines his swing and improves his already advanced approach at the plate. Imagine.  Shh!  I’m still imagining.

Lehigh Valley (59-40)  Beat Louisville, 7-3.  Adam Morgan (3-1, 3.82) pitched well.  He gave up three runs on eight hits.  He struck out five and walked none.  He needed only 74 pitches to complete seven innings.  Brock Stassi went 3-3 and hit his 7th home run.  Sweeney (6) and Ruf (10) also hit home runs.

  • #1 Crawford (.264) went 0-4 with a BB and SB (6).
  • #2 Thompson (9-5, 2.29) – DNP.
  • #3 Williams (.289) went 1-5.
  • #4 Appel – DL, season-ending surgery to remove a bone spur.
  • #9 Knapp (.270) DNP.
  • #13 Eflin (5-2, 2.90) – promoted to Philadelphia.
  • #17 Cordero – DL shoulder, rehabbing in the FSL with Clearwater.
  • #23 Sweeney (.232) went 2-5 with a HR (6) and RBI (23).
  • #26 Asher – Restricted List.
  • #28 Ramos (0.38) – promoted to Philadelphia.
  • #30 Lively (4-3, 3.63) – DNP.

Reading (66-32)  Lost to Hartford, 9-5.  Tom Eshelman (2-1, 6.75) got rocked to the tune of 8 runs (7 ER) and 11 hits in 3.2 innings.  He threw 70 pitches – 52 strikes and 18 balls.  Rhys Hoskins hit his 27th home run and drove in 2 runs.  Dylan Cozens didn’t play for the second straight game but entered as a pinch hitter.  He drew a walk and was replaced with a pinch runner (Anthony Vasquez).  Sounds like DC has an undisclosed injury or other ailment.  He represented the run before the tying run when he was replaced (9-5, bases loaded).  And, he’s at least an average base runner.  He was replaced by a pitcher! Hmm.

  • #6 Alfaro (.291) went 0-4.
  • #7 Quinn (.288) DL, oblique, rehabbing at the Complex in Clearwater.
  • #10 Pinto – (3-4, 4.63) – DNP.
  • #15 Eshelman (2-0, 5.94) – DNP.
  • #18 Pivetta – (8-4, 3.14) – DNP.
  • #19 Hoskins (.281)went 2-4 with a HR (27), 2 RBI (86).
  • #22 Cozens (.286) 0-0 as a PH with a BB.
  • #27 Brown (.225) DL, retroactive to 7/10, wrist.

Clearwater (57-39)  Beat Fort Myers, 3-2 and pulled into a first place tie with Dunedin.  Will Morris (6-2, 3.06) last pitched at Bright House when he threw four innings as part of a combined no-hitter with Drew Anderson and Victor Arano.  Morris was at it again.  He retired the first 17 batters he faced before issuing back-to-back walks in the sixth.  He lost the no-no on a one-out home run in the seventh.

The Threshers’ opportunistic offense scratched three runs.  Scott Kingery doubled off the left center field wall with two outs in the first.  After Mitch Walding (.283) walked, Chace Numata (.299) brought him home with a line drive single to left.  Walding was ruled out at third, trying to move up behind the throw to the plate.  This probably played a part in events later in the game.

In the fifth inning, the Threshers had runners on the corners with two outs.  Carlos Tocci had walked and alertly took third on a bloop single to right center by Malquin Canelo. When Canelo stole second, the throw went into center field and Tocci scored.  Walding then doubled home Canelo.

Morris had an interesting game.  His line was 7.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, 1 HR.  He threw 90 pitches/56 strikes, 34 balls.  He was efficient, throwing more than 15 pitches in only one inning.  His pitches by inning – 12, 14, 9, 6, 15, 22, 12.  He pitched behind batters at a higher ratio than is normally prudent – 12 of 24 (50%) first pitch strikes.  He threw as many balls in his last two innings (17) as he did in his first five innings.  He ran four, three-ball counts – two in the first five innings that both resulted in outs, and two in the sixth that became walks.

Morris throws several pitches (FB, SL, CB, CH, and cutter).  It looks like his FB was sitting 90-92 (mostly 90-91) while touching 93 mph.  His out pitch was a slider (I guess).  He got 4 swinging strike outs on pitches of 82, 82, 82, and 82 mph.  In all he induced 11 swings and misses.  He got his fifth strike out looking at a 75 mph curve ball.

Tom Windle made a rehab appearance in the eighth.  He was lifted after going walk, pop up, walk.  Ulises Joaquin came on in relief.  He got a pop up to first baseman Derek Campbell in foul territory.  Campbell fell into the stands after making the catch, and both runners moved up, by rule.  The next batter singled to left, and Jinadio Tromp threw out the tying run at the plate.

Jimmy Cordero retired the Miracle in order for his first save.  I didn’t realize it was Cordero so I didn’t pay attention to his pitch velocity.  Sorry.

Random stuff.

One tough son-of-a-gun.  Tocci fouled a ball off his right leg during his first at bat.  He fell to the ground in obvious pain, grabbing his right knee.  He writhed in pain for a minute or so as Coach Legg and the trainer attended to him.  He got up and limped around as he walked off the pain.  After another minute or so, he donned his helmet and resumed his at bat.  No way did I expect him to remain in the game when he hit the ground.  He’s a tough kid.  Real tough kid.

To frame or not to frame.  On Canelo’s steal with Walding at the plate, the catcher opted to frame the first pitch of the at bat while Canelo was breaking for second.  It was a close pitch, but not worth conceding the base so early in the count (it was ruled a ball).  The catcher belatedly threw wildly to second in an effort to get Canelo.  The play led to two runs as Tocci scored when the throw went into center field and Canelo scored on Waldings double later in the at bat.  Note that Canelo was thrown out stealing later in the game.

I mentioned earlier that Walding was thrown out at third advancing on a throw to the plate.  it was a heads up move since the third baseman had wandered too far from the bag.  I thought he was safe. Walding and Coach Legg looked like they thought so too based on their body language.  The base umpire made the call and wasn’t really in good enough position to make an accurate call.

Fast forward to the eighth inning.  The left-handed Walding is at the plate, and checks his swing on a ball in the dirt.  No call from the home plate umpire, so the catcher requests an appeal.  The first base umpire emphatically rules a strike, the third strike.  Walding says something and is ejected as he walks back to the dugout.  This is the same umpire who made the call at third.  In this case, he has Walding’s body in the way when he discerns that the bat went through the strike zone.  This is almost as ridiculous as when the umpire rules on an appeal of a check swing when there is a runner on first and the umpire is stationed between the mound and second base to cover two bases poorly rather than one base well.  Gotta have more umpires if the integrity of the game is important at all levels.

Kyle Martin wasn’t in the line up.  Kingery was the DH.  So, when Walding was ejected, Derek Campbell moved from first to third, Herlis Rodriguez moved from RF to first, and Cord Sandberg entered the game to play RF.  Interesting.

  • #11 Kingery (.293) went 1-4 with a double.
  • #12 Canelo (.248) went 1-3 with a BB.
  • #14 Tocci (.277) went 1-3 with a BB.
  • #15 Eshelman (4-2, 3.54) was promoted to Reading.
  • #20 Tirado – assigned to Lakewood.
  • #21 Garcia (8-2, 2.50) – DNP.

Lakewood (45-51) Beat Kannapolis, 4-2.  Jose Taveras (4-7, 3.82) went eight innings and struck out ten.  Josh Tobias had 2 hits.  Damek Tomscha had 2 RBI.  Zach Coppola (.324) went 1-2 with 2 walks and a SB (11) from the lead off position.

  • #5 Randolph (.250) went 0-4.
  • #8 Kilome (3-7, 4.46) – DNP.
  • #20 Tirado (1-1, 5.55)- DNP.
  • #24 Pujols (.229) went 1-4 with an RBI (57) and 2 K.
  • #29 Grullon (.237) went 0-2 with a BB.

Williamsport (19-14) Beat Batavia, 1-0 in 10 innings.  Bailey Falter (3.21) allowed 3 hits and a walk in six innings.  He struck out ten.  Scott Harris (0.75) allowed one hit in 1.2 innings.  Will Hibbs (1-1, 0.63) got the win retiring all seven batters he faced, striking out three.  Mark Laird had 2 of the Cutters 3 hits.  The winning run scored on a wild pitch after the Cutters loaded the bases on a hit batter and 2 walks.

  • #16 Medina (3-0, 1.35) – DNP.

GCL Phillies (16-7) Beat the GCL Pirates, 10-6.  Kevin Gowdy faced off against one of the Pirates top picks, RHP Travis MacGregor.  He’s a local kid who the Pirates selected in the second round.  Tarpon Springs is just a few miles north of Clearwater.  The combination of top picks and local kid brought a larger than usual crowd to the Complex.  Both pitchers put up similar lines with neither figuring in the decision.

Gowdy gave up a lead off triple to start the game, but remained poised throughout his three innings.  He gave up a couple runs, but struck out three.  The good news is that his fastball had a tic more velocity than his first appearance when he was reported to be 90-92. Today, he was 90-93 mph.  He sat 92-93 for the most part and touched 94 mph.  That’s encouraging.

Jan Hernandez started his rehab and went 1-2 with an RBI and a nice reaction play on a line drive.

Mickey Moniak had 2 hits, an infield single into the 5-6 hole and a line drive single to right.

Jhailyn crushed another home run to left center that one-hopped into the half-field in front of Bright House.  Second time he did that this week.  maybe it’s not a big deal.  He had 2 hits and 2 walks.  AND a straight steal of second.  His second steal of the season.  Dude is crazy fast.  Okay, just kidding about the crazy fast part.

Josh Stephen had 2 RBI.

Edwin Rodriguez had 2 hits and 2 RBI.  He crushed a two-run HR over the right field fence.

Lenin Rodriguez had 2 hits after replacing the starting catcher.

Sorry, no pictures or video.  I had trouble getting proper focus in the drenching humidity and there were a lot of folks around the cage.  Nothing I took came out clear enough to post.

  • #? Mickey Moniak (.324) went 2-5 with an RBI (16).
  • #? Kevin Gowdy (0-1, 4.50) – 3.0 IP, 3 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 3 K.
  • #? Cole Stobbe (.296) went 0-3 with a BB.
  • #25 Jhailyn Ortiz (.312) went 2-3 with a BB, HR (6) and RBI (17).
  • #? Josh Stephen (.286) went 1-4 with a double and 2 RBI (14).
  • #?Justin Miller (0-0, 4.15) – DNP.
  • #? Andrew Brown (0-0, 2.70) – DNP.
  • #? Will Stewart (1-1, 4.76) – 1.0 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB.
  • #? Nick Fanti (2-0, 1.19) – DNP.

DSL Phillies (16-24) Beat the DSL Red Sox1, 2-0.  Sandro Rosario (2.91) 4-hit the Rays over 6 innings.  Alfredo Benitez (1-3, 2.86) retired all nine batters he faced and got the win.

  • Jonathan Guzman (.284) went 1-3 with a BB.
  • Keudy Bocio (.210) went 0-3 with a sac and SB (19).
  • Simon Muzziotti (.269) went 1-3 with a walk.
  • Dixon Gutierrez (.295) went 0-4.

DSL Phillies2 (22-17) Lost to the DSL Rays2, 3-2.

  • Leonel Aponte (2-4, 3.02) – 5.0 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 3 K.
  • Carlos Oropeza (.198) DNP.
  • Rafael Marchan (.362) went 0-4.

Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.

Extra Innings:

  • 7/21 – Phillies sent OF Aaron Altherr on a rehab assignment to Reading.
  • 7/21 – Tom Windle assigned to Clearwater from Reading.
  • 7/21 – Lakewood sent 3B Jan Hernandez on a rehab assignment to GCL Phillies.
  • 7/21 – Rafael Carvajal assigned to DSL Phillies2 from DSL Phillies.
  • Organization Rosters are up to date.

95 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 7/21/2016

  1. We’ve got a couple of players on league-record paces for HR.

    Hoskins (92 games, 27 HR) and Cozens (92 games, 25 HR) are within sniffing distance of Rick Lancellotti’s EL record of 41 (1979) with 44 games to go. Hoskins is on pace for 40, Cozens a few less. It’s like Mantle/Maris all over again! (Except they are minor leaguers chasing a record held by the real life Crash Davis — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Lancellotti — instead of HOFers chasing the Babe).

    Now, it’s early but … the GCL Phils have 36 games remaining on their schedule. Whalin’ Jhaylin Ortiz has 6 HR in 20 games — putting him on pace for 17 HR. This would not only break the GCL record set by Eric Arce in 2011, but would also achieve the rare feat of hitting his age in HR.

      1. Ortiz is also the youngest of the top 5 HR hitters in the league…Dante Bichette’s son, Bo, is a year older…and the remaining three are 3/4 years older than him.

  2. LHV is in 2nd place and 2 games back. They play in the North division. If they were in the South division they’d have 14 more wins than the 2nd place team — who is now in 1st place. If they were in the other division (West), they would be 5 games ahead.

    Reading is 3 – 5 since the All Star break. The bash brothers haven’t really been together in the same lineup since that time. The team seems to be a little out of sync. Let’s hope they get back in the groove because they’re fun to watch — even if it’s just a box score recap.

    As Jim mentioned above, CLW is in a tie for 1st for the 2nd half standings. In the overall standings, they are 1st by 2.5 games. They are the most consistent team in the league, if not the best.

    LKW is in 3rd place in the 2nd half. They are only 1 game back of the leader. They’ve won 5 in a row and I’m not sure they’ve done that before in this season. Overall they are next to last in their division. It’s taken a while to get Coppola and Randolph back and get some stronger pitching.

    Wmsprt is in 2nd place in their division and 3 games back. They are 8 – 2 in their last 10 games.

    In the GCL the Phillies are in 2nd place, 3 games back in their division. If they were in any other division, they would be first by at least 4 games. The GCL Blue Jays are playing out of their minds at 20 – 4. The Phils have won 6 straight.

    The really young guys in the DSL aren’t peaking my interest much. So much to see here in the states.

    Wins and losses don’t matter in minor league ball but damn isn’t it exciting to open Jim’s box score recaps every day? Tell me you don’t get a little jump in your step when you see the Phil’s farm teams winning and you don’t feel a little depressed when they have bad games?

    1. Murphy said last night the Phillies have the 2nd highest wining percentage in the league. O ooh as per minor league sys.

  3. Altherr went 1-3 st AA btw and is poised to be activated next Thursday I believe. Several good pitching performances yesterday but I’m not sure any of the pitchers are MLB worthy. Time will tell. Moniak and Ortiz are exciting additions as well as Stephen and Stobbe. I wonder if all of them might move directly to Lakewood next year. Eshelman is part of the group of advanced players not doing well. Who has done well after being advanced? Ramos comes to mind. Any others? It’s concerning.

  4. I like Jim’s summary of highlights leading off the column. For me it is a nice way to begin reading. Thanks Jim.

  5. Not likely, but I’d love to see the Phillies get aggressive with Jhailyn and move him to Williamsport for the last month of the season.

  6. Falter and Fanti…two lefties that seem to have decent whiff capabilities. A few more added velo ticks and will be interesting to see what they can do as the move up the ladder.

  7. Kingery is putting together a nice season.

    He has increased his BB% and ISO while lowering his K%. 25 steals in 400 PA with an 83% success rate too.

    2015: BB% 6.1 K% 15.2 ISO .087
    2016: BB% 8.4 K% 12.5 ISO .118

    The former prospect guy at Crashburn Alley and current prospect writer at Fangraphs had this to say about him in his most recent chat:

    “Eric A Longenhagen: Plus run, plus hit, plus defense at 2B. Probably won’t ever have better than 40 game power, but I think the rest of the profile is good enough to play everyday regardless of the power.”

    1. unfortunately this year has been mostly a lost one for Randolph due to the injury issues. Can’t get worried until he’s had a chance to play regularly..

    2. he is batting .293 in his last ten games after being out most of the year. not worried at all. In fact he has had a hit in 7 of those 10 games

  8. Jake Thompson domination in his last 9 games , with 62 innings pitched is absolutely outstanding and leads all minor league pitchers in the IL.
    He has given up only 4 ERs, with an average Game Score of 68 over those nine games, with a 2.5 -BB/9….5.9 -H/9….but on the other hand, only a K/9 of 5, which is his lowest in his career. I have to assume he is throwing the slider and 2Smr most of the time and pitching-to-contact…..more or less, his former teammate’s, Zach Eflin’s plan.

    1. The strikeout numbers support the common assertion of KLaw and others that Thompson has “good” stuff and knows how to pitch, but lacks a real swing and miss pitch. Hence the upside of around a #3 starter (which isn’t bad), but probably not a true top of the rotation type guy.

    2. Romus…of course, part (not all) of K-ing is velocity. What has that been for Jake long term and also in, say, the last 10 games?

      I know you have until recently argued that Ben Lively should get consideration for promotion as he is two years older than Thompson and had been running neck and neck with him until a series of inconsistent performances. Maybe he needs a break like Nola had.

      1. I guess what I am trying to come across on Thompson is…..he may have changed his pitching philosophy since leaving both the Tigers and Rangers organizations.
        Look at his K/9 when he was with those two other orgs….330 IPs—330 Ks, I am no math major but that sure looks like 9K/9…that is swing and miss capability. Then last year at Reading he trended downward….and that may be a Phillies directive to him.
        JKlaw has a point…..but he has the capability to get the strike-out when he desires.

  9. Moniak and Ortiz may be both be on Top 100 lists after this season, which is pretty exciting.

    Moniak for sure will be…and probably in top 50. Keith Law had him at 34 (I believe) in his mid season ranking update.

    Ortiz will likely make the lists too. 17 years old big money signing in GCL leading league in HR’s, hitting over .300, showing a pretty advanced approach at the plate, and even stealing a couple bases, and from some reports, playing passably in the OF, and RF to boot.

    Exciting debuts by both

    1. I think Ortiz makes some lists for people that value high upside. I think Moniak is almost a universal top 50ish when the new rankings come out.

  10. From Keith Law chat

    Bob: Have you had a chance to see Jorge Alfaro this year? Seems like there are some indications that his catching has improved. His offense – at least by OPS – is about as good as it’s ever been too. What do the Phils have there?

    Klaw: Yep, the catching has improved, at least according to the scouts I’ve talked to. (I haven’t seen him myself.) And if he stays back there and is even just fringy with the glove he’s got a very good chance to be an above-average regular because I think he’ll be a fairly high BABIP hitter (who never walks) with power.

    Eric: Is it time to move Jake Thompson to the big leagues? Doing really well in AAA

    Klaw: I assume he’ll be up shortly. Another guy with good feel to pitch but probably lacking that swing-and-miss weapon.

    Eric: I am a fan of the Phillies selling high on their overachiever bullpen guys Gomez, Nerud and maybe Hernandez. But when is the line between getting value for them and holding onto a few so your bullpen isn’t completely decimated? Thanks!

    Klaw: Neris is the one to keep, as he’s younger and costs nothing. The other two, ship ’em out, then start trying other arms from within the system to fill the middle relief roles and see who can handle it. Every system has failed starters who could at least find value in the bullpen – even so-so starters like Pinto, Lively, Pivetta could break into the majors in relief, with an eye toward maybe sliding one or more into the rotation next year.

    Brian: I was wondering if you might comment on the differences between Joey Gallo and Dylan Cozens? I know people have said that Cozens has massive raw power like Gallo, and I was curious as to what the difference that has you thinking Gallo is at minimum a .230-.240 hitter w/big power and Cozens is something significantly less.

    Klaw: Gallo is a way better athlete and a better pure hitter. Cozens’ year is skewed by playing at Reading and he doesn’t hit LHP at all.

    Todd: Do you think we’ll get to see JP Crawford and Nick Williams in Philly this season?

    Klaw: Probably both. I would hope this silliness with the AAA manager benching Williams is over now.

    1. Good to see I wasn’t the only one outside of my mind with the idiotic way Williams was handled @ AAA by Brundage earlier this month.

      1. I get where Brundage may have been coming from. If he wanted to send a message t to Williams re: hustle, attitude, effort or whatever, it was important to see it through when the behavior resurfaced. I’m a teacher, and I’ve found that if I’m not consistent in applying consequences for a target behavior, the student will eventually revert to their previous actions.

        I have no idea whether Williams’ actions warranted the initial benching, but once he went down that road, he had no choice but to follow through.

        1. ‘I would hope this silliness with the AAA manager benching Williams is over now.’….not sure KLaw’s statement is an indictment over Brundage’s actions but more directed at all the negative press that was generated from one minor miscue by Williams. Which was corrected right away I do not even label the ‘bunt with a large lead’ incident as a miscue.
          Philly.com article last week by the Philly beat writer was another example of, IMO, much ado about nothing.

        2. Benching him for not sprinting to 1st base after grounding to the pitcher was utterly farcical.

      2. Hey rick when you go to work today. Be lazy, do less work. just don’t do anything, cause you don’t feel like it. see how your boss feels. And if your a manager, what do you do with a lazy person. who is trying to get promoted. Don’t make the players your idol. they need to work hard like everyone else.

        1. rocco…….I think Williams realized what he did after that one incident.
          Now when he and JPC bunted back to back in that blow out win, that was something entirely different.
          Brundage talked to them on the field….perhaps better judgement would have been to talk to them privately in the locker room after the game
          It was a bitt uncomfortable watching that discussion along the third base line.

        2. Roccom- You can’t act like Nick just decided not to play a whole game. He took a play off which is not the same as doing less work for the whole day. There have been plenty of times when Nick has hustled so you can’t say he is lazy. He had a lapse in judgment and has stated that he has learned from the experience. It was 2 plays (from everything that I’ve seen it seemed like it was isolated to those 2 times) you can call two times a pattern but let’s be honest how many plays do you think he actually hustled that you haven’t given him credit.
          Disclaimer- I do not think it is appropriate to not give your whole effort all the time and I am not condoning Nicks behavior but that doesn’t mean I am going to blast a 22 year old kid for having a lapse of judgment 2 times when he has made the right decision hundreds of times just since he has been in this system.
          If you think it is appropriate to judge someone on less than 1% of their performance I don’t know what to tell you. I am sure their are instances in everyone’s life that they would rather not be define them nobody is perfect.

          1. I don’t know what interview it was but I remember hearing either the LHV beat writer or one of their play by play guys saying that Williams has been like that all year. Said he plays hard but not 100% of the time and had other maturity issues. Thought it was interesting to hear that from someone who is around the team on a daily basis.

            (I think it was a podcast)

          1. No reason to ever reply to what I post. Rick I wont ever say anything about what you post. If you cant see the point of hustle. We just will never agree. so post all you want I will skip over it. better for both. If you think I am ignorant. there is not one reason for me or you to answer any post we put up. ty

    2. Keith Law for some reason does like Cozens and to say that Gallo is a much better athlete is questionable. Anyone who saw Dylan Cozens in Trenton has to admit that physically he is well built and fit. Cozens could probably play for the Eagles if he wanted to. However, if Cozens can thrive in Allentown and Philadelphia than maybe he can prove everyone wrong for once.

      1. to be fair…keith is right that Cozens doesn’t hit LHP and his road splits are horrible. so what exactly is he saying that indicates he simply “doesn’t like him.”

        also, have you ever seen cozen’s play. he is big and not extremely fluid. not a leap to say Gallo is a better athlete.

        1. Yes I have seen him in Reading and Trenton on which he made some nice plays. He also has a very good arm. If Joey Gallo is such a great athlete why is Texas keeping him 1B?

      2. Agree that KLaw seems to be underselling Cozens’ athleticism. I mean, this is a kid who had some pretty decent offers to play college football. However, KLaw is dead on the mark regarding Cozens inability to hit LHP and his very skewed home/away splits. The stats don’t lie.

        Also agree that the Phillies should look to see what they can get for Gomez and Hernandez. Gomez in particular may never have more trade value than he does right now.

      3. Totally agree, gallo is not a “way” better athlete than anyone, let alone cozens. He just doesn’t like and it goes back to his comments when the Phils drafted him

        1. I have seen Gallo play 3B and he is a lot more baseball athletic than Cozens. The Rangers had him playing SS and CF in Instructs to work on some things and he was passable at both in short spurts.

          Big difference between being football athletic like Cozens and having the baseball body control and athleticism

          1. More baseball savvy maybe, he has played a lot more baseball than cozens. Doesn’t make him more athletic, it’s not an argument that can be won or lost, it’s how you look at it. If you line them up and run a race cozens will win, if you have a throwing contest gallo wins, playing on the dirt makes gallo more attractive baseball wise but imo cozens is a more pure athlete, livelier bodied player. In the eyes of the beholder I guess

    3. I am definitely into the Lively to major league bp after the deadline to see if that 90-92 Flahing 94-95 fb plays up in that role. Pivetta fits as well. I want to see those guys sink or swim.

      1. I think the Phillies will eventually have a bunch of guys (if they’re not traded) that will eventually transition to the bullpen: Appel, Lively, Pinto.

        Watching some of the Phillies games this week, I was shocked that every reliever that the Marlins were bringing out was throwing 95+.

        1. Appel, Pinto will be good late inning shutdown reliever. Lively will be a long man and probably will look like Jeanmar Gomez. Lively’s real value is a backend rotation starter. if the Phils rotation if full, they might consider trading Lively 1st than moving him in the pen. If Pivetta cannot develop his CH, his mid to upper 90s FB + CB will look good in the Pen as well. Asher is another candidate in the pen.

    4. Klaw while I wont disparage anyone opinion, he is jaded towards cozens for whatever reason going back to HS. I will tell you unequivocally cozens is a better athlete than gallo period. The hitting lhp well that’s another subject but you can hear it in his “voice” the lack of objectivity for whatever reason.

      1. However he is 100% correct. He’s hitting under .200 against LHP with only 3 HRs off of them. His home and road splits are as follows:
        Home .315/.411/.802 20HR
        Away .262/.340/.403 5 HR

        So it’s obvious the park most definitely plays a role in his power numbers which not only can be seen by the fact that 87% of his HR are hit at home but also that his slugging % on the road is half of what it is when he’s home.

        The Home/Road doesn’t concern me as much as the RHP/LHP splits thought, obviously.

        1. Agree that the L/R split is more important. The road hitting is still a relatively small sample and it has ticked up of late. Cozens will just need lots of at bats to see if he can solve LHP though I think his floor is looking like platoon OF at the moment and it was harder to see that 2 years ago.

          1. And the better side of the platoon as well. I actually like the idea of platooning a corner OF spot. They seem to be the ones with the most dramatic R/L split numbers (as well as 1B, bc of the power for both). You’ll also end up having one guy on the bench each game (the sitting platooned player) who has seen regular at bats. I mean this franchise has written the book on platooning.

        2. Eric his last Hr and double was on the road . He was 2 for 3 then Altherr came up and started yesterday. He was hitting .185 against LHP about a month ago . Now it’s 200. So there is up tick maybe a begining. He just so strong I done think there’s a park that can hold him.

    5. If Cozens and Altherr turn out to be a good platoon in RF, I’m happy. While it’s nice to have ‘the guy’ at each position, it’s more of a luxury than a necessity. Besides it’s important to keep younger players fresh in adjusting to the longer major league schedule.

    6. Cozens was going to play DE at Arizona, and has stolen bases on 78% of his attempts at 6’6 235. He may not run the equivalent to a 4.4 in football, but there are very few players more athletic than him.

  11. Jim, under GCL’s bullets of highlighted players’ line, Aaron Brown is listed instead of Andrew Brown (pitcher). Just a typo.

    1. Thanks, I’ve had problems with that since he was drafted. I even even talked to Brown and Kyle Young yesterday (they were stationed by the gate to the Complex to retrieve foul balls) and “choked” on his name as I started to say Aaron instead of Andrew, yet again.

      1. What was your take away from speaking with Kyle Young? How lanky does he actually look? He’s def one of the most interesting players we drafted this year.

  12. So Mackanin made a comment saying that it’s debatable that Hamels is an ace . . . At first I couldn’t disagree more, then I looked at his career numbers and would have to agree. Personality I like to look at 4 things when looking at a pitcher: ERA, ERA+, WHIP (I want to see how often he allows players to get on base) and then a combo of durability/stuff/intimidation.

    Hamels has a career ERA of 3.53, ERA+ 125 (League Average 100), WHIP 1.154. He has been very durable averaging 223 ip/season with very good stuff from the left side however lacks the “nastiness” that some others have (Sale, Kershaw, Hernandez).

    An ace should have an ERA routinely south of 3, an ERA+ of 125 or above on a consistent basis, WHIP under 1.15 (league average 1.3), they should also pitch AT LEAST 185 innings/yr with high end stuff.

    I’d say the following are aces (IMO) Kershaw (may go down as the best pitcher of all time), Jose Fernandez, Felix Hernandez, Adam Wainwright, Madison Bumgarner, Chris Sale, David Price. Outside of those you have guys who are really close (Verlander, Scherzer) or guys who have been pitching like aces recently meaning not for the majority of their careers (Arrieta, Scherzer)

    Verlander is in the same boat as Hamels . . . Again someone who I thought I’d consider an ace until looking at his numbers again.

    I’m just of the opinion that an ace is rare and are special. Again Kershaw fits the mold to a T and again may go down as the best pitcher ever.

    1. What are we talking about here, whether Hamels is a 1 or 1A? We’re just splitting hairs here, Hamels is a great pitcher, end of story.

      1. Why are we talking about it on this thread at all?

        It’s meaningless how Hamels is classified and completely meaningless in the context of Phillies prospects other than to say that if every pitching prospect they have in the system today turns into another Cole Hamels, I will have zero complaints..

      2. Yes, end of story. He is a major reason the phils won a championship that year, period. Why are we picking him apart now?

        1. While Kershaw is obviously the better pitcher with “nastier ” stuff, guess what he doesn’t have? That’s right, a ring!

    2. Don’t know of anyone claiming Hamels as a classic “ace”. On a pedestrian staff he is a #1 but that’s relative. What he does have is battle tested metal.

      Kershaw is a great pitcher but WAY too early to make any “all time”allusions, especially after we had Lefty here for so long. Kershaw’s playoff record thus far is at best so-so as well.

    3. Hamels can dominate games but can have clankers too — 2008 WS and 2009 WS is a tale of two Hamels.

      but what’s important is when he needs to perform like an Ace, Hamels performed like an Ace that’s why we can get to celebrate after 25 years of waiting.

      Hamels is similar to Jon Lester (although I think Hamels is much better) — and I’m sure that both Phillies and BoSox fans are happy to cheer both on their way to the world series ring.

    4. They must be rare indeed, you just eliminated Roberts, Carlton, Bunning and Schilling with your “routinely south of 3”.

      1. It was a story because Pete Mac said it in an interview. btw never did I disparage Cole Hamels . . . He pitched like an ace for us in 4 or 5 of the 10 years he was with us. A few seasons were really good but not great and a couple others were meh. Did a lot for us, period.

        There’s a difference to me if someone does it for a career or a short period. There are a bunch of guys who have thrown like an ace but are they actually aces? And how do you actually quantify that (meaning how many years do you have to perform like that)? As far as Kershaw goes name one other pitcher who has done what he has in his first 9 years (not like it’s a small sample size anymore)? Find me someone who can say they have anywhere close to these kinda numbers . .
        Career Numbers
        125-58
        2.39 ERA
        1732 IP
        1891 K’s
        1.01 WHIP
        9.8 K/9
        WAR 51.8
        -ERA under 2.00 – 3x
        -ERA under 2.50 – 5x
        -ERA under 3 – 8 outta 9 years (rookie year was his only over 3)
        -Almost a .700 winning %
        -300 K Season (who does that anymore?)
        -6 200plus K seasons
        -ERA+ of AT LEAST 133 8 of 9 seasons
        -3x Cy Young winner
        -6x Top 5 in NL Cy Young voting
        -MVP Award
        -6x All Star

        If that isn’t the best start (if you want to still call it that) to a career, I dunno what is.

        1. Unfortunately for Kershaw…..if he does have to have back surgery on his herniated disc this year….they may be the numbers that will need to get him into the HoF.

        2. agree that the numbers, especially if it continues — definitely has the makings of future HOF great. but the book is still not closed and still has a lot of pages into it so it’s PREMATURE to mention as the Best Pitcher of All Time since Kershaw is just an injury away to quash that. You’re point is similar to the NBA knuckleheads that saying that Steph Curry is the best player of the modern era because of some good stats early in his early.

          Despite of the amazing stats – MadBum (same era as Kershaw) is way higher than Kershaw in the ATG ladder and no one is saying MadBum is the best pitcher of all time.

          Stats is good, but Kershaw need to show up when it counts the most – playoffs and World Series.

          1. Look at the career numbers by Madison Bumgarner, he is becoming and has been an ace but he’s never put together a seasonS like Kershaw has. His ERA is almost a 1/2 run higher and his ERA+ is about 25 points lower.

            Kershaw has a stretch that is comparable to another Dodger great (Koufax) . . . And at close to the same ages.

            Obviously something can happen . . But my statement is still true, find a pitcher with better number for his first 9 years (again not a small sample size anymore). You won’t be able to.

            As far as not having a ring . . You don’t hear that in baseball like you do other sports. It really isn’t as big of a deal to a players legacy. Tony Gwynn, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Ken Griffey Jr. All some of the best baseball players EVER . . No rings between them. Never heard anyone say “well Ted Williams never won a World Series”. Just not as big of a deal.

    5. Ty Eric for saying that the Ace has been used and for some guys who had 1 or 2 yrs. The one thing with Hamels he pitched us to a world series. The other is yesterday 2.30 is today’s 3.30 that beginning this yr nobody it seems can carry a sub 3.00 ot should I say a small few even Price Era is over 4.

  13. Cant wait to ask jim about the gcl game today. So far Ortiz has struck out twice. against a 21 yr old pitcher who doesn’t look like a strikeout pitcher. I am interested. if the pitcher is a breaking ball pitcher. This kid is only 17, good test for him to see someone with good off-speed stuff. if that is the case today. My8 Romus I am almost ready to make the bold statement that I really think if he can become a decent outfield. Stephen is going to be a stud hitter.

    1. Road game, Roccom. I got to stay home and watch the TDF in real time rather than on delay today.

      BTW, I called Ortiz’ HR yesterday. I was sitting with a friend and said, “I don’t have any of Ortiz’ HRs on video, I should get off my a$$ and film this one”. I even went so far as to defend my prediction with “The pitcher’s left-handed that is in Ortiz’ favor” and “He’s tall, if he misses he’ll leave the ball up”. Well, I didn’t get up and he crushed the second pitch to left center.

      I also called Stephen’s 2-run double later in the game. As he came to the plate, I said to the same friend, “He’s been hitting the ball real well lately, he’s due here”. He stung one into the right center field gap.

      I pushed my luck later when I tried a reverse jinx when Ortiz came to bat, “Ortiz has NEVER hit two home runs in the same game”. That didn’t work. He still hasn’t.

    2. rocco……make the statement. What he is doing at 17 against players older is remarkable. And Stephen’s pre-draft scouting reports all did indicate an average to plus hit tool.

  14. Interesting comment that Cozens is at least an average baserunner. According to the statistics, he has 17 stolen bases this year (12th in the Eastern League) and has been caught once!

  15. Weird question. Profar and Gallo of the Rangers . . . What could we offer in a trade that would be a comparable haul? If you want take out Crawford since no one would move him.

    1. Wouldn’t have said this before today but now (following Eflin’s shutout) Nola, Rupp, D. Hernandez and Blanco for Profar, Gallo and (DL) Derek Holland. I’d throw in either Asche or Bourjos if the Rangers wanted either.

      1. And I certainly wouldn’t do that trade. I like Profar, but not that much. I want no part of Gallo. Too many Ks and don’t see him hitting well enough.

  16. Don’t want Gallo his K rate in the majors was enough l ‘ d wait a yr. Profar Hmmmmmm Kilome and And Ramos they have so many 2 base prospects and Outfield’s too. I heard the Yanks offered Miller they said no. Brinson there Trading chip.

    1. I don’t want Gallo either or Profar (however he would make an interesting 2B of the future) . . . I was asking bc it’s said that Chris Sale is on the market and the Rangers are trying to get a deal done. Gallo and Profar are the 2 big pieces they would want from Texas (I would there maybe 2 more guys as well). So I was wondering what we thought was a comparable 2 or group to those 2. If that makes sense.

      1. If I’m Chicago no way would I do that deal without Brinson and Ortiz in it. Also you figure there would be some other pieces in there too. I’d ask for Mazara, but I don’t think would even put him on the table.

  17. Yea I know that ,Jose Pujols and Profar had 2 shoulder injuries before thus yr so I don’t know maybe Quinn

  18. Texas has to give up more ,a kings ransom. The Phillies could but it could hurt us alot. Nick Willams , Medina , Grullon, Eagar Garcia, C that might do it for Chris Sale.

    1. You wouldn’t do that for Sale? Think about it . . . Next year you’d have a rotation with 5 of the following Sale/Velasquez/Nola/Eickoff/Eflin/Thompson (plus the 2018 FA class that is loaded w front line starters) If you don’t want to lose Medina you could replace him with Thompson (I think Medias ceiling is higher and think Thompson is more of a 4). That may speed up the rebuild without really hurting the system. Personally I think it would take closer to Williams/Neris/Kilome and another top 30 guy w high upside but a lot of risk.

      1. Sale for sale!
        IMO:
        1. ChiSox would want at least one of the top guys on the staff now….Nola or ViVe.
        2. One of either Thompson or Eflin
        3. Williams or Cozens
        4. Knapp or Alfaro
        …in the words of new daddy Mick, ‘you don’t always get what you want’.

  19. Romus- right now if they said Sale for Nola/Thompson/Williams/Knapp do you do it? I’m seriously thinking on it. Sale would basically cancel out (and then some) for Nola or Thompson. So you are really giving up Thompson (who I think at best is a 3, more likely a workhorse 4), Williams (solid prospect but just that, a prospect . . Seem Dom Brown) and a catcher who isn’t your top rated catcher and w the emergence of Rupp he could be expendable. Still leaves you w a rotation next year of Sale/Velasquez/Eickoff/Eflin. You’d need to sign a FA SP (one year deal bc I’m eyeing a frontline starter in the 2018 FA class) but you now have an ace to go w VV and a (IMO) much needed LHP in the rotation. Your system still would boast the likes ofCrawford/Medina/Kilome/Alfaro/Gowdy/
    Moniak/Randolph/Quinn/Irvin/Stobbe/Kingery/Hoskins/Cozins/Ortiz/Stephens/plus a decent pick in the 2017 draft.

    I know this isn’t happening but it’s an out of the box idea.

    1. Sale scratched from start tonight and sent home after pregame clubhouse incident, reportedly non-physical.

    2. ‘Sale for Nola/Thompson/Williams/Knapp ‘……I would seriously think about that.
      Whether they would do it remains to be seen….they are talking they want 5 top prospects in return for Sale.

    1. rocco….why?
      ……. two of the key players you have concerns with right now….Nola and Williams.

      1. I actually think it’s a perfect opportunity to cash in some of what they’ve built. And again I don’t think you are hurting your system THAT much. Yes it hurts losing a few top 100 guys but we also have seen some this year that could slide into those rankings. Not to mention the strong draft (so far so good sss) and next years pick being a decent one.

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