Open Discussion: Mid-Week Special, August 20th

Due to the many changes this week, here’s an open discussion thread to deal with the updates in topics since the beginning of the week.  This will also avoid the long comment threads in the earlier post.

In review,

  • Maikel Franco was put on the DL.
  • Aaron Altherr was called up and performed well Wednesday night.
  • Chase Utley was traded to the Dodgers for AAA INF/OF Darnell Sweeney and Advanced A RHP John Richy. (Nos. 13 and 29 among Dodgers’ prospects).
  • Sweeney has been assigned to the Phillies in Utley’s roster spot.
  • MLB inserted Sweeney as the Phillies #11 prospect.
  • Everybody moved down one slot until Seve Gonzalez and Victor Arano were removed from their slots.
  • Aaron Brown was inserted at #29.
  • John Richy was inserted at #30.
  • Former #30 Jonathan Arauz was bumped out of the top 30.
  • Since the comment s can become numerous, I recently considered posting a mid-week Open Discussion.  I decided to try it today with all the stuff going on this week.  Let me know what you think.


188 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Mid-Week Special, August 20th

  1. Hats off to Chase Utley. Much like Cole Hamels, he left town on an up note in regards to his performance and should be remembered for being the best Philly second sacker of the modern era. Given Utley;s brief and belated success in 2015 and the trade conditions he imposed for the season that remains, the return was about as expected. It will be interesting to see what role the Phils have in mind for Sweeney, and whether he is used primarily as a second baseman or outfielder. Richy is another arm destined perhaps for assignment to Lakewood and is projected to have a ceiling as a #4 in the rotation.
    Even if the keystone combo of Utley and Rollins is a brief reunion, it gives fans in Philly a reason to keep an eye on the Dodgers. The Phils with this move take another important step towards its re-build.

  2. Well with all the trades I hope are finally done . I think in about 7 wks we will finally have hopefully a new manager and new coaches. A new GM too Macphail always picked his own Manager and GM . I know FA are a touchy subject some times but there a load of Sp out there .plus 1 good out fielder Heyward who’s still young and the phillies now have a lot of money off the books . Some people say no wait until 2017 ok that yr might be a bad for what we are looking for . I don’t want big contacts there are some players like Jay Bruce , Cargo and some Cubans that are over the drafting age. I would Bruce and at least 1 solid pitcher like a Latos or a Anderson. So far the Phillies have developed Nola, Morgan, Giles, Garcia etc.the Galvis , Hernandez , Brown have been here . Altherr, Herrera are the ones who could start next yr, Eickhoff, Asher, could be up by the weekend.Crawford , Knapp , Thompson, Elfin, Nick Williams could be up by July of next yr. Franco and Sweeney are here . Give me 1 Top Fa plus + 1 trade we can make . It’s funny The 2 prospects we received from the Ultey trade wouldn’t make our top 20. I knew that going to happen. Me I want Jay Bruce and Anderson or maybe Latos .

      1. I didn’t see Sweeney in the up dated Mlb list. He’s listed behind Kingery as the 8 best 2nd base man . Some reports say Ave defense , plus speed but he k% is can hit home runs.

        1. Cal League HRs have to be viewed with a grain of salt…..even Ty Gillies had his share there.
          Southern league, Chatt., may be legit

        2. Tim….you have to open it up for all top 30….click on the Phillies icon….Pinto is listed on the webpage as #11, but then dropped on the opened listing

    1. I’m growing to like the existing manager quite a bit. I don’t know how good he is as a strategist, but I really enjoy the way Mackanin is handling the younger players and the team as a whole. I would not be quick to jettison him unless you are convinced that you have a great manager in the wings. Not that it’s saying much, but it’s obvious already how much better of a manager Mackanin is than Sandberg.

      1. I was saying this for a month. Mackanin has an understanding of the roster and how to fill out a lineup card that minimizes the obvious deficiencies.

        I think he might be the right choice for the next two years. The young players like him and have been playing well under him.

      2. The Macphail has put 2 Manager’s under him kelly from Minnesota and I think it’s the Baltimore Manager two good manager . Mackanin has said he doesn’t want the Job . It’s not me I read up on Macphail he gets his own people. Mackanin started out good but the Phillies just lost 4 of there last 5. Franco out for the yr Ultey gone plus the the bigger roster. Th 6 man Rotation I see in last place and the number 1 pick.

  3. Right…and beneficial for the rebuild movement. All these received prospects need time, refinement and polishing with the intention that at least some of them would contribute to a NEW team in the next and following seasons. It was of zero cost to the Phils who essentially received two prospects with MLB a likely outcome.

    With the Phils strong intention to grow Alfaro into a decent catcher, his arrival could take two more full seasons at least. Post ankle injury he is working on recuperation and to work on his 2 weaknesses: striking out far too many times, and cleaning up his defense to better than average. The time and energy expended on this will be well worth it if he can reach his high potential as a catcher. Meanwhile Knapp is coming over the hill…with work on his defense and a worthy bat.

    Williams IS a prize. I look for a duo of him and Altherr to be part of the big club with Williams likely arrival time of June ’16.

    A whole new outlook from the end of last season’s play.

    1. Art Franco , Herrera, Sweeney, Altherr, the bullpen Plus Nola, Morgan, Eickhoff will be here this weekend. Lino , Dugan , Asher, all will be up in sept. Rupp too no more Harang or Williams by next yr. The next level will Crawford , Nick Williams , Thompson, every site I’ve said Eta 2016 . Macphail teams usually take 3 yrs to get competive. The 1 thing we short on is power and an ace pitcher. I know kilome and medina there yrs away. We can get the number 1 pick now trading Ultey and Franco going helps alot.

          1. I getting used to checking my stuff the auto check drives me nuts. The term idiot is in a classification system that’s is no longer used. I spent 10 yrs of life working in health care where we use medical term . We shorten just about everything we can . I would never the idiot as it refers to a person with an IQ of a 3 yr old or less.

        1. No I didn’t the trade in itself didn’t sense . The Dodgers have Kike Hernandez who’s putting up nice numbers in place of Kendricks. Then they have Kendricks coming back maybe hamstring are slow healers. The Philles have Cesar but they traded for Sweeney who is rated the 8 th best minor league 2nd baseman one behind Kingery . why trade for a 2nd baseman and put him on the roster. This trade wasn’t for need it sounds like a last shot effort. The Dodgers were Chase favorite as a kid. Amaro could have asked Chase where do you want to go. The Dodgers said mm mm SF and the Cubs want Chase we can start him with J roll. I heard Amaro droped his prospect so this trade could happen. Like I said Ultey was here when the we’re Champion’s he’s the 2nd base man in Philles history. He will coach someday here .

  4. Chase Will Go Down as the 5th Best in Phillies History:
    Mike Schmidt—107
    Robin Roberts-83
    Steve Carlton-65
    Richie Ashburn-64
    Chase Utley-61
    …..thank you Chase.

    1. Historical WAR stats are completely meaningless IMO. It is hard enough to put a value on defensive performance now with all of the video cameras we have. Trying to put a defensive value on older players is just silly.

  5. Cool stat put out yesterday, Utley has the second highest WAR of all time, MJS is the first

    Aaron altherr, way to go kid

      1. Might be the difference between WAR with the Phillies vs career WAR. Baseball Ref has Utley second in team history among position players behind Schmidt, but Richie Ashburn has more career WAR because he had a couple good years with the Cubs and Mets.

  6. I hate the Utley trade. Not because of sentimental reasons. I love Utley as a player but am fine trading him. I just hate the return. They went for high floor and low ceiling. I wish it was the other way around. I wanted high risk lottery tickets.

    1. +1
      Wanted younger prospects in their system.
      Cardinals gave up Kaminsky for Moss…..couldn’t Ruben get something more for a Chase Utley!

    2. Yeah, I think a number of us had the same reaction. Yes, I get that they needed to move forward and I get that they want young players, but for what is ultimately a big market franchise like the Phillies, mediocre position players and #4 and 5 starters are a dime a dozen. I think the trade was more a favor than anything else, but if they had the ability to get some lottery tickets in this deal and chose the higher floor players instead, that was, at least in concept, a stupid move. Let’s see the new guys play and do their thing and we can judge how well they did, but, like many of us here, I’m kind of sick of seeing guys being brought in with the “hope” that they can become back of the rotation starters – they didn’t need a lot of those guys to begin with and they certainly don’t need any more of them.

      1. I can’t speak for silly things the Cardinals did, but people do have to remember this deal is like a 6-7 week rental for a player who will be a FA at the end of the year, is 36, has trade veto rights and is in the middle of the worst year of his career. You have to be realistic about the possible return in a trade like that – it’s rarely going to be very good, but, yes, we now have a bunch of solid rank-and-file prospects – let’s get some lottery tickets in the door.

        1. yes, it’s hard to dictate to the Dodgers what you are going to get back for a 6 week rental who was hitting under .200 before a recent hot streak, and has rejected all other trades, so its literally trade him to LA or don’t trade him at all.

        2. A 6-week rental that could energize them into their first WS championship in decades…..then the return takes on a lesser value. They rolled the dice and if it comes up great for them, they get what they wanted.

        3. There no one left to trade now he have to watch Macphail work his magic. Yes I’d to sign some FA not much but some.

    3. You might take another look at Sweeney. He has fits the description of a higher ceiling. I think they want him in the majors to pinpoint what they need to work on with him next year in AAA. His development seems to have been somewhat uneven. I think he has a bigger upside with some changes. I don’t know too much about Richy.

      1. One concern I have on Sweeney…..21% Krate and 10% BB rate with 2000PAs, for a no power contact hitter..
        Perhaps he needs to go strictly to his dominant side and forgetabout switching.
        If more of those low-powwer, contact-hitting, low BA/oBP, speedy switchers would just follow and emulate Mookie Betts who decided against switch-hitting, they would see the light.

    4. v1again They kicked in 4 million and Utley for a bench player and a mostly likely pitcher who never helps us. There was really no benefit to this move imo.

      1. They wanted to do Utley right and give him a chance to win another World Series. This trade was never about prospects, it was about giving Chase that chance to win because free agency may not be kind to him.

        If you noticed Howard and Ruiz have been sitting a little more. The ship has sailed on the older players and it is nice to see the young players leading the way.

        1. Leading the way to the worst record in baseball. So the Phillies can get the #1 pick next year. A 60 win season should do that ,the Phillies by going younger could hit around the 60 mark a couple more times. The Phillies could be the new Cubs or Astros rich in your talent.

          1. The Phillies are not going to have a couple more 60-win seasons. The upswing begins next year, although likely only about 70 wins.

            1. 60 70 wins no big difference that’s only if everything works out perfect . No Injuries or other set backs , replacing Hamels , Ultey , JRoll, are not easy to replace. The starting pitching is the key the faster that gets going the better we will be.

      2. In scenario 1, Phillies owe Utley $6M for six weeks.
        In scenario 2, Phillies owe Dodgers $4 million for Sweeney and Richey.

        So the trade is really 6 weeks of Utley in exchange for $2 million and 2 players.

    5. The return was the equivalent of the Rollins trade. Two org bodies. One who gets to sit the bench for a few days or weeks and the other who we will likely never hear of.

      Did anyone discuss the two guys we got for Rollins at any point in time this year? One of whom played 15 games this year?

        1. My bad, I thought it was a different trade.

          On a related subject, is Larry going to be running out to grab lunch for everyone today?

          I figure that since I defended Larry the first part of the year and he saw reason to pester me for some reason I should give the glorified Male Secretary some flack.

          I wonder if he cleaned out his desk. HIs job is done.

          1. Dave, I got to give you credit for one thing – you have cojones. I don’t think I’ve ever seem someone proven so spectacularly wrong so quickly and come back IMMEDIATELY claiming that he was right. (And poking fun at one of the guys – me – who got it right. Not that I claim much credit for that; the return was pretty obviously going to be a couple of decent but not top prospects.) It’s pretty hilarious.

            Though I suppose it’s just barely possible that you simply don’t have a clue as to what “org bodies” mean.

            1. Larry i have been keeping a list of things that David has been wrong about for the past few days. It has been posted intermittently. It’s pretty funny, just about stance he takes is incorrect. It’s almost like he is a parody account. And as far as cojones, I have to agree. The only reason I keep this list is because of how aggressively he attacked me when I stated twice that I didn’t agree at all that Herrera would start next season in AAA. His usual response is to call me a jackass and threaten me with some type of “you’re messing with the wrong guy” rhetoric, so I’m sure that’s coming again…

            2. Updated list:

              1. Herrera will start next season in AAA

              2. Brock Stassi is some sort of priority prospect that will get AAA ABs over tommy Joseph next year

              3. Jimmy Rollins was traded for two org bodies

              4. The Phillies will only receive a single A org body for Chase Utley

            3. Unless Herrerra completely stops hitting for all of spring training, there is no way he is in AAA next year – that prediction just makes no sense.

  7. I think Frenchy will be traded before the 8/31 deadline – honestly, right now, he may be worth more than Utley. I have to say, Jeff Francoeur has conducted himself like a class act the entire time he has been here and has played to what appears to be the best of his abilities. But if they don’t trade him and keep him around, if he wants a limited role next year, I’d be happy to see him on the team.

    1. I haven’t seen anyone mention this, but what about Andres Blanco? I know he doesn’t have much of a pedigree, but he’s killing it right now. Could he be worth anything to a contender looking for an extra infielder?

      1. He helps a lot with the LA players plus he’s 31 and spent last yr in AAA where anyone could have had him.

    2. Agree, 100%! I think he’s been a good example to the younger players and provided good chemistry in the clubhouse, certainly played up to his role. Not part of the future growth movement, but certainly a plus on a bad team.

  8. There was a post in the other thread by someone who fancies himself a baseball genius and refutes any comment to the contrary with massive quantities of text. It was a deeply flawed comment that I want to shed light on.

    His point was that Rhys Hoskins’ stats should be largely ignored because he is 22 in high A. This un-researched statement is too flawed to ignore.

    Rhys Hoskins is 22 in High A. He is 6 months younger than the weighted average age in the FSL. He is in his first full pro season. He is age appropriate. His age/performance is not elite. But it is also not a prospect disqualifier.

    There is a long list of great MLB players who were 22 (or older) at high A. I am just going to leave one here: Josh Donaldson was 22 in High A. Here was his slash: .217/.276/.349. He was 23 in AA and hit .270/.379/.415. Good but not amazing numbers.

    Now I am not saying Rhys will be as good as Donaldson. And I don’t believe in only scouting the stat line. My point is, arbitrarily dismissing a player’s elite performance due to age when he is actually young for the league is a lazy, Ill-informed argument.

    Rhys is absolutely destroying High A after Doug the same in Low A. His OPS is 100 points higher than the league leader (since he doesn’t qualify). He has a very good LHP split. He takes walks and has plus raw power. Scouting reports on his bat and defense suggest his performance is not a mirage. As a 1b only, he will have to maintain performance at every level. And I am not ready to call him a sure fired pro baseball player. My point is…the meme that you have to be 19 in A ball to be a great prospect is deeply flawed.

    1. nice post V1, the only thing is you are defending a point that only one person of questionable intelligence has made. Im with you, very excited and happy with Rhys, and hope he progresses at each level. He may or he may not, but you just have to be thrilled with what hes done so far.

      1. You must be looking at the wrong low A numbers – his low A numbers for this year gave him an OPS of ..922 if I recall correctly. He killed it in low A this year.

    2. You know, you’ve always been an annoying little shit,, which is fine, I guess I am sometimes also. But at least I’m an honest shit, not a lying shit like you. I never said to ignore his stats; I said the opposite. And I never said that he wasn’t a good prospect. I simply disagreed with your laughable projection that he was going to be a star. Oh, you didn’t say “star,” but the numbers you project would make him one. And they are just that, laughable.

      As for the 22 in A ball, your one example proves my point. Donaldson is an outlier, a pretty extreme one. There aren’t “plenty” of guys like him in the majors. There’s maybe a half dozen at most; I think I’m being generous.

      Is it possible that Hoskins will be that one in a thousand exception? Sure. But instead of wasting time on that remote possibility, why don’t we focus on the more realistic possibility that he develops into a decent major league regular, instead of making wild, stupid, ignorant projections of stardom. And lying about the contents of other people’s posts when they call you on it.


      1. I Can related with you larry in one respect. Your are a saber guy, I am a see prospect and then have a opinion. One thing I believe and that is you need some velo to win. to keep guys honest. But watching last night games and seeing a guy throwing. 86 and not as sharp last night. but has been great all year. That makes my theory on velo seem nuts. but he is one in hundred who can get away with it, just like your opinion based on a guys numbers. especially in minors. we get fooled sometimes it happens.

      2. cursing isn’t cool. some kids may read this forum. using profanity and insults weakens any argument you may have

      3. In my experience, people who yell the loudest and curse the most do so because they are embarrassed by their lack of understanding or lack of data. As such Larry’s insulting, curse filled response was very predicable.

        I will ignore the complete lack of emotional control and will instead deal with the facts.

        Here was your the portion of your comment from a prior thread that I was referencing:
        “…to get to v1’s absurdly optimistic projection (even considered as a ceiling), you would need either (a) to be producing similar numbers at a similar at at age 20, (b) dominating to a MUCH greater extent at a similar age/level, or (c) both.”

        Your comment clearly ties validation of performance to age. In your logic, Rhys’ existing performance at age 20 would make his stats more projectable then the same stats at age 22. This is a flawed and un-researched conclusion, not unlike most of your comments on this blog.

        Your insults and offensive language doesn’t make your argument any more valid.

        Since you didn’t do your homework, I did it for you.

        In 2014, there were 42 players listed in Baseball-Reference with a 2 or greater win over average player from the bat alone. I chose to focus on the bat contribution to WAR because the point was focused on Rhys’ hitting stats. Of these 42 players, 38% of them were 22 or older in high-A. If you throw out the extreme outliers (Trouts, Pujols, Stantons, etc), the number is about half. Rhys has an OPS higher than 44% of these older players, so his performance is about right in the middle.

        If you go down to 1-2 wins above average with the bat, then the stats look more favorable to Rhys.

        So that’s the data. Curse away tough guy.

        1. As usual, you shift the goal posts and distort the argument – that’s your MO. I said myself that he could be a 2 plus WAR player – not in those words – I said “decent regular,” same thing. And yeah, there are plenty of decent regulars who were in A ball as a 22 year old and went on to become decent regulars. That doesn’t contradict my point.

          But YOU’RE the guy projecting a .850 OPS. In the current offensive environment, that’s a star, even for a first baseman (assuming good defense, which you also assume). I don’t have time to go down the list of players with roughly a .850 OPS in detail, but eyeballing it & based upon past experience, most of those guys were in AA by the age of 21, or 22 at the latest. Only a year or two difference, but a huge one in terms of development. Yes there are exceptions, but they are relatively rare. It’s not the NORMAL development path. (Go back 5 to 10 years and you can find more – that’s your kind of argument, goal post shifting again – but that’s a different offensive context and not relevant to the current argument.)

          There’s other reasons to question your silly projection, but the age one is enough. But as usual, rather than defending your original wild statement. you lie, distort and shift the goal posts to try to appear to win the argument. Disgusting.

          Anyway, I’m off to the mountains for the weekend, so by all means have the last word. Feel free to lie, distort, etc., as you always do. This time I won’t have the time to call you on it – maybe someone else will.

          1. Utley was 22 in his Clearwater season and put up a sub-.800 OPS. Howard and Ruiz hit Clearwater at 23. Age 22 at Clearwater would be a little slow progress for a HS draftee, but very normal for a college draftee.

          2. “I don’t have the time to actually look at the data to refute your argument, but I am going to insult you and say that you are wrong.” – LarryM

            If you actually looked at the data, you would see most of the college draftees spend a lot of their age 22 season in high A.

            But I already knew you were wrong based on the tone of your post. If you have data on your side, there is no need to insult other people. Just post the data tough guy.

            1. v1………….’If you actually looked at the data, you would see most of the college draftees spend a lot of their age 22 season in high A.’….that would make sense. Since, unless they were 4-year guys like Ruf and lately Kyle Martin, most are three-year college guys and drafted at 21-years old, or turning 22 soon

      4. Why do some people sit here and argue all day? I love this site but it blows my mind that people can sit here and argue about things they have ZERO effect on and basically no real stake in to the point that they’re actually angry at each each other.

        Guys, these things don’t matter. Being right won’t get you or the prospects anything at all.

      1. romus I tried to tell you about this kid. now you see him, I Just thought he might be a good hitter.

        1. rocco…check the March threads for the sleeper edition….he was my choice….and you said, WHO?
          Now you are tellin me! 🙂

          1. I Know romus but it starts to get really bad. You and david are right a lot and I keep trying to find out why.

    3. While I think 22 in high A is age appropriate, I don’t by the weighted average argument because it is really only the actual prospects who matter, not the org filler, which tends to be older and the chance prospects who are often older. That said, I agree 22 is fully age appropriate for high A.

  9. MLB’s Phillies Top 30…..12 of the top 30 have come via trades since this past off-season.
    Richy is now slotted as 30 and Sweeney mid-teens….they just plugged them in I suppose.

  10. Sweeney to me is Odubel Herrera with a higher K rate and maybe tad less speed. Can also play SS. Interesting to see where he fits in the future plan.

    Richy to me is the key to this trade. 10-5 in 18 starts. ERA is a little high for me but with all the influx of pitching the Phillies can now afford to refine him and not to rush him.

    Joe Jordan was on the TV broadcast last night. First question out of the box by Matt Stairs was ” who is this Andrew Knapp?” Stairs could not get over that he was better at AA than A with a .400 BA and power. Jordan said he could always hit but that they really “beat him up” working on his defense.

    Jordan mentioned that he has seen every player in person that they recently acquired. Said that they have some really live arms. Expect to see some of those arms in Septemeber.

    Jordan praised Hoskins at 1b. Time did not permit lots more info since the game was flying.

    TMac said that lots of young kids are here now which is great to see and Jordan said ” more is on the way.”

  11. I see alot of people saying how much better our farm is but are saying Sweeney is filler. MLB lists him as our #11 best. Well which is it?

    1. There are always a few choices on the MLB list that are just bad. To me, Sweeney looks like a guy who’s stock has dropped during this season. He had a very nice year in AA as a slightly older prospect and looked like a speedy middle infielder who walks a lot and has some pop.

      This year he put up a very pedestrian line in a hitter friendly league. His BB% dropped from being impressive to just okay and he still strikes out too much. There’s no way he’s a top 15 prospect in this system, even though I wouldn’t call him filler.

      1. Well Sweeney was an All Star, a consideration which neutralizes the ‘hitter friendly league’ argument.

    2. Soap…….Sweeney will be 25 next season… may be between him and Cesar H at 2nd base….and if in the OF he will keep a spot warm until Williams and Quinn come up, but it gets pretty crowded with Herrera, Asche, Altherr, (assume now he is staying for good), Brown, Frenchy ….am I missing anyone?

  12. One of the draws of this site is that the comments generally don’t breakdown into pissing contests and petty name calling. Reign it in.

    1. +1
      Aron, great post by you concerning the negative comments coming in lately. If we don’t settle down the moderators will set the tone.

  13. I agree,Reign it in!! Even if your opinion MAY be a better one AND you Could have some other players numbers,there’s always the “outlier” .

    After all,why be so adamant that your opinion or info will be the Correct prediction for that player,two or three years down the road?

    If someone gets excited about a certain player,what’s the BIG deal?

  14. Despite disappointment over the “bounty” for Utley – after all he is a free agent in two months and there is not a good probability that he has the physical capability to play regularly any longer. That said, was this trade only a matter of getting something for this iconic Philly ? I would suspect there was a great deal more (behind closed doors) than was shared with the media.

    My only question concerning all of the players obtained is how in the world will they be able to protect them all from Rule 5 drafts etc. ? 40 man roster limitations , etc. ? It would be nice to see several 4/5 starters swapped for a single 3.

  15. with all the roster changes, who should we be worried about for the rule 5 draft? I know Asher needs to be protected and we should have several spots open up. Chad Billingsley, Aaron Harang, Jerome Williams, Jordan Danks, Jeff Francoeur, and Cliff Lee I assume will all be off the 40. That would open 6 spots, plus if they need more, Cesar Jimenez, David Buchanan, Andres Blanco, perhaps others.

    Also any injury update on Mario Hollands? Haven’t heard anything, will he be ready by spring training?

    1. The Phillies don’t really have 40 players worth worrying about. That was an issue when they were a championship team. From what I’ve noticed, they’ve only added 3 guys that need to be protected, but traded away 5 guys that were on the 40 man.

    2. Daniel….Phillies may be picking first in Rule 5 this year…..think about who the Phillies may want to add from another teams unprotected 40.
      Herrera was a good pick….but most times it does not pan out…I originally wanted Delino Deshields but the Rangers let Herrera go and picked up Deshields, then Jon Daniels start asking Ruben about letting Herrera come back, if he really wants to keep him.
      Houston has some decent prospects they need to make decision on.

        1. I counted 42 players on the roster (including the guys on 60 day disabled list).
          You’d think they aren’t going to protect…

          Cliff Lee
          Jordan Danks
          Chad Billingsly
          Aaron Harang
          Jerome Williams
          Andres Blanco

          That leaves 4 spots before you even get to guys like Loewen, Pettibone and Hollands.

          They aren’t in position to lose anybody significant.

          1. I typed all of those names in my first post, what I’m looking for is a list of who needs to be protected. I know Asher is one but not sure who the rest are.

            1. All college players taken in 2012 and all HS and Latin signees signed in 2011. So, I think they need 7 spots cleared up:

              Latins they WILL protect: Tocci, Pinto, Tirado, Cordero
              HS they WILL protect: Roman Quinn,
              College they will protect: Cam Perkins, Alec Asher

              HS they MAY protect: Yaksel Rios, Dygestile Thierren

              HS they WONT protect: Mitch Walding, Larry Greene

          2. phils need to protect quinn, ramos, lino, cordero and asher (alfaro, sweeney, eikhoff are already in the 40-man roster). asumming biddle, sev gon, pettibone and joely are in – spots for hinojosa, hollands, neris, blanco, gomez are up for grabs. if they keep these 5 players – their 40 man are already fulll or 1-man available the most before signing any FA. i would like the phils to protect y rios and/or colton murray as well unless they have better rule 5 option.

        2. I tried to put a list together, let me know of any mistakes,

          Asher, Larry Greene Jr, Quinn, Yacksel Rios, Perkins, Hoby Milner,

          Not sure about the LA guys, maybe Tocci?

          1. You got all eligible guys, but I honestly forgot Hoby Number was still in the organization. I wouldn’t waste a 40 man spot on him.

            1. yes, that’s what I was looking for was a list of all eligible guys. I was at work and didn’t want to look it up. For some reason I thought it would be more guys so indeed nothing to really worry about, unless they somehow look to add a few or more players from outside the organization.

            1. However, Tocci may not have to be protected this year according to this Fangraphs text:
              ‘ signed at age 18 or 19 and spent 5 or 4 years respectively in the organization (essentially, they must be 22 years old and not protected).’

            2. Phillies can only protect 39 players if they intend in participating in the Dec Rule 5 draft.
              There must be a minimum of one vacancy on the 40-man roster to make a selection.

      1. saw it mentioned somewhere that Dodgers may have exposed Sweeney to the rule 5 anyway this season so they dont really feel like they gave up anything.

    1. Houston has a kid in the Texas league….Reymin Guduan, tall lefty reliever who brings it in the high 90s…..rocco….you like velo right?
      Could be an Aroldis Chapman type late inning guy……like many high velo guys needs to work on his command & control which is really below average, but the arm is certainly there.
      Signed in ’09 and if not protected he could be a long-shot..

    2. rocco….in the Cubs system , they have a guy that intirgues me …infielder right now on their 40, but they may need to make a decision and keep another player and/or expose him, Christian Villanueva…good power, great glove/arm at 3rd, but maybe try to convert him to a 2nd baseman. But Cubs will have to decide on him. Their infield is stacked with young talent.

    3. Roccom, they were not any of the choices that Chase wanted to go to so your point is rhetorical. The Phillies had to work with the teams Chase approved going yo so negotiations were made that much more difficult.

  16. The trade of Utley has me torn. On one hand, it’s the obvious thing to do, free up a few bucks, get a couple of prospects, give Chase a chance to go play in October. On the other hand, the Phils don’t “need” the money, the prospects aren’t anything significant, and Chase’s leadership on a young team would definitely be helpful.

    Now that the deal is done, and looking ahead to next year, I would much rather have Chase Utley playing 1B on a one year contract next year, as opposed to Ryan Howard. If the Phils could ever find a taker for Howard, I wonder if Chase would be willing to come back on a one year deal at a reasonable salary. I don’t believe there are any prospects that will reach the major league level next year that Howard or Utley would block at 1B and I’m not sure there are any FA’s that would be worthwhile as part of the long term plan.

    The way Chase Utley prepares, and plays, and with all of the available money on hand, I think there are worse ways to spend some funds than to have him around as a mentor and role model for young players like Franco, Crawford, Hernandez, Altherr, and others.

    1. I hear you what’s funny is that Howard maybe blocking Chase. You never know what the future holds. The phillies now have 2 2nd base man Cesar Herandez being the order 1 . He tried to Sweeney how to go 0 for 5 with an error .

    2. Has not Chase done that for 3/4 of the season already? What is another 1/4 of the year left for the others to learn from him. I think he would make an excellent coach in MLB if he chooses that path.

  17. I don’t think he could be a coach. He was a hard nose player. What do you think he would do with today guys. They don’t run out balls. swing at 3-0 pitches out of the zone. they cant bunt. stupid base running. too many of today guys just don’t have the fundamentals and I think it would drive chase crazy. I don’t know if he has any kids. but with all that money. he could maybe coach a high school team and get to the kids early. or take all that money and play golf and travel. When he is done traveling. just enjoy his life. gym. fine dinners. nice cars. no mortrage why put up with the bull you get coaching.

    1. I think superstar ballplayers have generally been bad managers and I think rich superstars make even worse managers. That’s why Sandberg left. He didn’t need that job and that heartache – he’s wealthy. So he quit. It’s not that complicated. For a guy like Pete Mackanin who has never had a big payday it’s quite a gig.

      1. I wonder if they keep Mackanin on a short deal. Cant figure out what they will do with francour either.

      1. No he doesn’t. Bowa was a loud obnoxious jerk when he was a player. Utley was a quiet leader by example, the same as Sandberg, when he was a star player.

          1. Of course they both played hard and wanted to win, but that isn’t the same as having the same temperament. If Utley were to become a manager, I’d expect him to behave closer to Sandberg than to Bowa, because he’s not known as a communicator.

            1. I am talking about their play and temperament on the field, not in the locker room.
              BTW….Utley is far from a communicator…he is stoic and matter-of-fact.
              He is not a JRoll.
              He rarely expressed emotion and kept it in check. It was all business.
              But as a manager he would be closer to Sandberg style …..which was also uncommunicative it seems.

    2. Roccom there has been many members of the Phillies brass that said Ultey wants too be a coach after his career is over. He’s a baseball nut he gets to CBP at 1 pm for a 7 pm game . He works out and watches video’s of the next games pitcher. Do you know anybody that goes to work 6 hrs early ?

      1. I think Utley would be a great coach (if he wants to do that to stay busy – God knows he won’t need the money), but I cannot see him being an effective manager – his communication skills appear to be very poor.

        1. Freddy Galvis when he came up said all I do is listen to Chase . He has so much info on every pitcher and player.Chase seems to be good In front of a camera.

    3. Joe Torre , K Gibson, Don Mattingly, Paul Monitor 1 yr, Matt Williams, Frank Thomas, Ron Ventura . Chase could be a hitting coach etc.

    1. Yes he would be also a good candidate to be selected….he is pretty high on the Cubs prospect list so he may be protected….and now as a catcher his value is higher.
      Of course, who would have thought that one of the Phillies system’s strength is now catching, so they could pass on him if exposed.

      1. It came to me — probably should have a while ago– but Jesse Biddle won’t be protected on the 40-man this off-season. Doesn’t tear me up because if he were #40, I would rather have the slot for a pick-up from elsewhere. I think the reality is that Biddle would go unclaimed.

          1. I agree, he would definitely be claimed and some team might get a solid mid-rotation pitcher out of it. As frustrating as he has been, he will still get some type of shot to start in the majorls.

  18. Not if he keeps moving in the direction he has been of late. He wouldn’t last a full season on a big league roster, even being hidden.

  19. The Phillies seem a little to obsessed with switch hitting middle infielder’s. Going through the rosters i counted 12 including C. Hernandez, F. Galvis, plus D. Sweaney, J. Valentin, A.Gamboa, E. Marrero, W. Cuicus, and 5 guys on the VSL team.

    1. Still do not get the grading on Franco compared to some of the others on his list.
      IMO, if it were not for Arenado in Colorado, Franco will be a top candidate for a Gold Glove in a few years…and his bat plays out just as well as Sano of the Twins and a few others..
      I guess if he were a Rule 4 high draft pick or a $$MM LA signee, judgements on evaluation would be altered.

    1. I really hope that Jerome Willams is not with the Phillies next year and they find a different rental pitcher on a one year deal.

        1. I like the fister signing. matt harrison (LHP) will be the 5th SP if he’s healthy. Asher might start him in AAA unless he’s lights out in ST – in place of a veteran SP and/ or to give Buchanan, Sev Gon, Joely or Biddle (or Pettibone if he’s healthy) some look before the Phils decides on their future. There will be more arms coming in 2016 (Eflin, Lively, Pinto, etc.) so some of these #4s/#5s will be gone by next year.

      1. They could go with a Doug Fister, who will more then likely,sign for a year to try to resurrect his career, based on this years poor showing. Then he can be a July move for prospect….if he can recapture his old form.

          1. Romus, good choice if he willing to sign with us to give his career a boost. There are other similar pitchers but I can’t recall any right now.

            1. If I were Ruben, well maybe whoever is the GM in Nov/Dec…I would try to offer a 2-year deal to Fister (2/$20M), then if he is attractive come July next season, you can throw in another $10M, and then the receiving team would get him for the rental year and second year at only $5M…..all in the hopes of getting better return of prospects.
              But I am thinking Fister’s agent would not go for a 2-year deal….they rather take the gamble he regains his old form and can get more on th open market. He will be 32-years old next season, and could get a 3-year deal for his 34-35-36 age seasons.

            2. philabalt….Latos, Leake and O’s Chen may also be available…the biggies will sign with contenders I assume.

            3. philabalt….made a partial list with ages …excluding big names and too old and former Philly pitchers, and who could be attractive next season in july.:
              Brett Anderson (28)
              Brandon Beachy (29)
              Wei-Yin Chen (30)
              Marco Estrada (32)
              Doug Fister (32)
              Gavin Floyd (33)
              J.A. Happ (33)
              Kyle Kendrick (31)
              Ian Kennedy (31)
              Mat Latos (28)
              Mike Leake (28)
              Brandon Morrow (31)
              Bud Norris (31)
              Mike Pelfrey (32)

            4. Romus, nice list of mid-tier starters who can help the Phillies starting pitching and not block any deserving youngsters such as Nola, Morgan and Eickoff. They should be available for a one to two year contract.

  20. When i watch Marcell Ozuna play for Miami I dream what he could do batting in CBP playing LF…then I compare his numbers with Asche’s this year and Asche has one more HR in the same amount of PAs as Ozuna. But still like the Phillies to try to get a talent like him.

  21. This might have been brought up recently but would like to get every ones opinion;

    1) Pete Rose and Chase Utley spearheaded the hard nose “hustle” leadership for this franchises 2 world series / championship periods. Is there a prospect / member of the Phillies now who you see as the next potential spearhead in that mold?

    Asche has the mentality but just don’t know if he has enough in the tank / talent to evolve into that caliber of player.

    1. IMO, I see JPC taking up the role of the future leader…..more of the Jeter-like leadership personality. And plays, one of the two every-day positions of value, the other being catcher, for that role. He does hustle…though his efforts are so graceful and fluid, it may look like he is ‘playing it cool’
      Players like Rose and Utley are rare anymore….they need to have both the talent and the ‘mad-dog’ determination in a combination that you do not see often.

    2. You can add Lenny Dykstra to your list. I don’t know of any prospect with that kind of grit. But I also can’t remember if Chase was known for it when he was a prospect (I just remember James’ discussions with that guy whose name escapes me – it kind of led to the creation of this site). How much was Chase thought of as a “soft” California dude.

    3. Special players like that around once in a Great while. It seems Trout has the same gifts even though he is an incredible he still works hard and is a team leader. I can’t think of any now although we didn’t know chase was going to be great either.

      1. Ya, while we did not know his full potential, there was something about him when he first came up that said he was special. Don’t see that combo of grit a special yet from anyone.

        I have not seen Hoskins play, what is he like?

        1. Harper is another….he does like to bang into OF walls for balls.
          As a pitcher…love him or hate him…Greinke.
          D-Back’s AJ Pollack has the temperament and just developing the skill level.
          How about Hunter Pence?

  22. Cuban Yusnier Diaz 18 CF Rookie of the yr in Cuba. Where’s Roccom I need some to help get a rally going outside of Amaro office.

  23. Since Sweeney hit a home run as his first hit. Chase did the same thing maybe that’s a omen. Sweeney should start tomorrow see what he has we know what Cesar Hernandez can do.

  24. Altherr is showing some power he needs just too keep playing. Dom Brown should be the man out. Francoeur is much better and is only 2 yrs older Francoeur is 30 he’s always smiling and and has that arm. Dom Brown is will be 28 next month. He still only shows small glimpses of what he can do. The rebuild If we go by the time line of 5 yrs Dom Brown will be 33 and won’t be part of it.Asche has better numbers then Dom his his slg 397 is nearing 400. I don’t think 80% of this team will be here in 5 yrs. Some will be 30 or older and not just talking about Harang , Francoeur, Blanco . Ruf 34 gone Howard gone , Hernandez 30 gone ,Galvis 30 here Franco 27 here, Sweeney 29 ? , catcher’s both gone.Brown 33 gone Asche 30 ? Altherr 29 ? Herrera 27 here . Pitcher, s are a different I know I missed someone. Who will be here in 5 yrs ?

  25. You ant phillies to sign more FA then to keep there own prospects ? Then give me a team under thirty.

  26. A company called Zepp has created a device that attaches to the knob of baseball bats. Via Bluetooth, users can instantly see analyses of their swings on their smartphones.
    Buying a few dozen – the devices sell for $149 on Zepp’s website – wouldn’t be too costly for a major league organization, and that’s just a baseline example of technology teams could seek.
    As Astros’ GM Jeff Luhnow put it, clubs have to do everything to turn over as many stones as possible and find an edge. “Once you find them, you’ve got to hide them and pretend like you don’t have them,” Luhnow said. “And then they question why you’re having success, and then eventually they probably figure it out. And there’s a lot (of stones) that you turn over that end up being dead ends, and you waste resources going down paths that aren’t useful. You’ve got to figure out how to evaluate projects and cut ’em off.”

    ……….buy stock in Zepp…in a few years even Little Leaguers will be using them..

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