May 21 Open Discussion

Box Score Recap

Scores scores and more scores.

Lehigh Valley wins 8-4.

Another scoreless inning for Mathieson

Reading loses 3-2.

Brown: 1/4
Naylor with a decent start; 7 IP – 2 ER – 5 H – 0 BB – 5 K

Clearwater loses 6-3.

Gose: 1/5
Overbeck: 2/4
BJ Rosenberg is back

Lakewood loses 4-3.

Singleton: 1/2, 2B, 2 BB (7 BB in 8 games)
Pettibone: 5 IP – 2 ER – 4 H – 0 BB – 3 K

92 thoughts on “May 21 Open Discussion”

  1. It’s good to see Rosy back. It’s also good to see Harold Garcia back. He’s played in 5 games; hitting in each of them. Interesting that Gose has hit in each of those 5 games and is hitting .333 duing the stretch. I know… statistical insignificance…. but I’ll keep my eye on it. I like Garcia even though I wouldn’t call him a top prospect.

    So Rocky doesn’t call me out again. I’d like to note that Zeid stunk it up last night. He blew the save and lost the game. The night before I called Zeid the hard luck loser because the infield committed 2 errors with 2 outs to lose the game for him.

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  2. Bellman: I have hopes for Garcia too. I think he will be a better hitter than Harman and thus has a shot to be a decent utility guy (in the Tomas Perez mold?).

    Does anyone have a good feel for his fielding abilities?

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  3. it’s getting harder and harder to taper my excitement about Singleton. Given our dearth of corner infield prospects, what are the chances he makes it to AA at some point next year?

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  5. not personal.. just saying it evens out but did we jinks this guy. we talk about him and now he get hits again.

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  6. Soren I was thinking about that looking at Garcia and his age where would he play? and singleton with howard contract were does he fit in? finally a couple of infield guys we cant hope will help the big team. but no where to play, even overbeck at 24 and polanco on a three year deal where does he fit in, do we keep him for three years if he shows at reading he can handled it this year.

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  7. I still think overbeck at best is a bench guy, so I’m not worried about him being “blocked” by Polanco. Singleton on the other hand is trickier. He either becomes a huge trading chip…or you look to try and convince a team to take on Howard’s contract. The former is probably the more likely option though, since at his salary I doubt you get good value for Howard’s contract (because we aren’t getting say a Jose Iglesias for that behemoth of a contract)

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  8. I think it’s way to early to think about Singleton replacing Howard, especially since the guy has all of about 40 at-bats at Low A ball and he isn’t even 19 yet, but part of the fun of this site is to speculate about what happens when our prospects become total studs.

    So, for academic purposes: He stays all year in Lakewood and puts up really decent numbers – say .300/.400/.450. Next year in Clearwater, he explodes and gets a midseason promo to Reading because he’s really on fire and is a top 25 prospect caliber. That give the Phillies “a nice problem” going into 2012.

    My guess is that he would either become trade bait, or (hopefully) a candidate for a move to the outfield. Since he’s a lefthanded fielder, it limits his options – I seem to recall St Louis playing Pujols all over the field because he was ready.

    But like I said, it’s way too early to really be concerned with the potential Singleton/Howard problem. It will be fun to watch him develop and debate the problem should it arise.

    – Jeff

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  10. Agree on Singleton … they will NOT rush him. I love guys with plate discipline and he did well with that last year and it’s continued thus far now. But they will move slowly with him, unless he busts the door down and forces them to move him. If the guy turns into a stud, they will figure something out.

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  11. The time to trade Howard is before he becomes a 10/5 player. Before the 2015 season.

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  12. Agree it’s way to early about where guys fit in when they are in Low/High A ball. That stuff will play it self out, after they are at AAA. Those guys have a tough road ahead of them up the organizational ladder ….

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  13. On Singleton:

    Excitement is fine. If you can’t gush when someone is hot and has a prospect profile, why follow them?

    But it’s way too early to speculate on how fast he will rise, where he will be next year or anything. If he hits .100 for a month, what do you say then? It’s happened before (D’Arby Myers).

    Why not just enjoy how well he is doing?

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  14. I agree DiamondDerby – he has MILES to go. Also, when have the Phillies ever rushed a position prospect? It’s rare. Someone like Galvis being at AA is an anomaly.

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  15. Yeah, Diamond Derby… D’Arby Myers is definitely the cautionary tale here. I remember us all getting really excited three years ago when he came out hitting .400 at Williamsport for the first month. Ditto for Tyler Mach and his 1.400 ops after his first few weeks at W-Port. Still, it’s fun to get excited about prospects – that’s what this site is all about, after all.

    – Jeff

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  16. It isn’t the high average that has me so high on him, it’s more so the extraordinary plate discipline we’ve seen so far.

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  21. I have heard that the Phillies do not give full no trade clauses. I believe Howard can submit a list of 9 teams, each season, that he refuses to be traded.
    It really does not matter in Howard’s case though. You do not give a contract like that with plans to trade him. He is a Phillie for life.
    Singleton will either have to learn to play leftfield like Yonder Alonzo is trying to do, or get traded in 4 years, when he is ready. Four years is so far away, there may be a DH in the national league. Why worry about where a John Singleton will play?

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  22. Agree not to worry about where Singleton will play. Either he will be traded or play LF if he is blocked. He is a pretty good athlete. Not a Dom Brown, but plenty athletic enough to play a decent LF. He will not be Pat Burrell or Greg Luzinski there (although both of them were actually acceptable LFers before injury and age set in.

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  23. Can anybody tell me where Julian Sampson is right now? I don’t see him listed on any roster and haven’t been able to find any currnet information on him.

    Is there a way to see a list of those Phillies that were kept in extended Spring Training?

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  24. Just enjoy the fact that we have a prospect that is hitting well. The move to LF is not that difficult for younger guys, especially if your CF will be Victorino, Gose or Gillies. Even if he can’t move, even blocked prospects have great value as trade bait. The talk of trading Howard is silly.

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  25. There is a place for young, athletic players who can hit – it’s called left field. If Burrell can play there, I suspect Singleton can too. Let’s all calm down.

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  26. It is actually a good point about how left-heavy the Phils are in their prospects as well. Brown, Gillies, Gose, Singleton, Valle are all lefty. James, Villar and Galvis are switch hitters, and Santana is pretty much the only highly rated righty.

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  29. Collier is a lefty. Since I started this thread with Harold Garcia, he’s a Switch-hitter. Susdorf is a lefty and Overbeck is a righty. These guys are starting to get a lot of discussion here. Rizzotti is also a big lefty 1st baseman.

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  30. FYI – The BlueClaws have placed lefty Nick Hernandez (3-1, 1.61) on the disabled list with left shoulder weakness. Tough break for Hernandez, who had allowed just two earned runs in his last 28 innings pitched.

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  31. That’s disappointing on Hernandez, assumed he would be moving to Clearwater in the near future. Guess the bright side is that it opens up a spot for Shreve.

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  32. I assume Shreve will take Hernandez’s spot in the rotation but he wouldn’t be able to pitch on Hernandez’s scheduled appearance (sat) since he just pitched 6 innings on Wed. I guess my question is who would you expect to take the start tomorrow?

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  34. “At the end of the blog post, they note that Cosart struck the last batter from his last start with a 95mph fastball.”

    The dude has upside, no doubt about it.

    My guess is that he is truly untouchable whereas Drabek being untouchable was largely a smoke screen. Good prospect, no doubt, but not really a projected no. 1 guy like Cosart.

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  35. “Is there a way to see a list of those Phillies that were kept in extended Spring Training?”

    There is an unofficial list on the Rosters page of this website

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  39. amazing, lets speculate about trading a future hof,er who has at least 5 great years left for a guy who has potential. brilliant. singleton,s value lies in trade value thats it. while were at it lets move j-roll for galvis. mathieson should be up, maybe there waiting til he can consistently hit 105 on the gun.

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  40. btw imho this system is at it,s lowest point in years, thus making this years draft one of it,s most important.

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  41. Dom Brown and Jarred Cosart may be two of the most talented prospect we’ve had in a very long time in terms of raw ability and potential. This is the “lowest point in years” in very relative terms.

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  42. I don’t think this is a low point at all. The talent level, I think, is quite impressive. To have two potential top 10 prospects (if K. Law is to be believed) is an incredible thing for any organization. Beyond them, we have quite a few talents having some success this year and also our famous toolsheds, which you hope one breaks out. This is by no means a low point. To be where they are, with all the talent they’ve traded, is quite impressive.

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  43. Tom (NJ): Jon Singleton just made it to LowA Lakewood this week. He showed great promise in the GCL last year and started this week .385/.500/.654. What are your thoughts on him and was he even in the discussion for the hot sheet?

    Matthew Eddy: Lots of interest in Jon Singleton this time. Yes, he was considered for the Hot Sheet. He went 9-for-22 (.409) this week for Low-A Lakewood with a home run and a double. He walked seven times (once intentional) while striking out only three times. I like to see more power from Class A first basemen, but he’s definitely on the radar for future Hot Sheets.

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  45. Cosart opens the first with a 96 mph fastball and ends the inning with a 97 mph one.

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  47. This is not the systems lowest point in years. Just silly statement.
    There is as much talent in the system as there was before the 2008 draft. In 2008, Carasco was #1, and he was barely in anyones’ overall top 50. Cardenas was #2 and was barely overall top 100. Outman, Marson and Donald may not have been in the top 200.
    Brown is a top 10 prospect. Cosart is a top 30 prospect. Phillipe Aumont and Trevor May were rated higher than Outman ever was. There was no Gose, Santana, or Villar. They were not here yet.
    The system is no worse than it was at this time 2 years ago, and it is arguably better because of the premium talent at the top.

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  48. I think the problem is until these guys have success at higher levels, we might be overvaluing them in our own minds.

    I’ve said it once, but I’ll say it again. All this stuff is fun to follow, but until they reach AA, it means very little.

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  50. Jon Singleton with another homer tonight, and already has a double and 3 RBIs to go with it

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  53. What do we make of Rizzotti? Mashing at A+ and has not skipped a beat at AA. If he keeps it up, another bench guy with a good stick? Has the light switched on permanently for him? Or just a flash in the pan and ready to be exposed at AA? Anyone have any real insights on him?

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  54. Rizzotti has always showed promise. Until this point he never put up a fantastic season. However, every year has been nothing but solid. His average at both levels this year thus far has been outstanding! Another 2 hits and a walk tonight. I think its time to start considering him a serious prospect…

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  55. Rizzotti’s performance is mostly batting average. He’s on pace to hit about 4 home runs this year, and though he’ll hit more than that, you need more power out a 1Bman than that.

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  56. Rizzotti seems interesting now. He seems to have always been treated like the underdog by the Phillies, always the DH never the 1st baseman. He was over shadowed by Durant last year and hardly saw any time at 1st. He repeated Clearwater this year as a DH, in the shadow of Murphy at 1st. He led the FSL then got promoted and he is batting .450 at AA. Maybe it’s his breakout year, let’s give him some time and see how he does. He probably needs help at 1st due to the fact that he hardly ever played it.

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  59. annonymous2 – exactly my point. dh’ing and not playing 1st = errors. stone hands and bad footing come from lack of playing time also = errors.

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  60. Sorry but sometimes stone hands and bad footing come from having stone hands and bad feet.

    Usually if a guy can’t find a regular position in the minors its a good indication that he isn’t high on the prospect radar screen.

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  61. rickey b. good reporting as usual. matt probably said it better, except for a very few guys nobody has more than an educated guess as to what these guys will be. give it a year to weed out the chaff. than another year and you might have an idea.

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  62. Given that some of the most important pieces in our biggest deals recently have been sub-AA guys (D’Arnaud, Knapp, Cardenas), I think what these kids do in A ball means more than “very little.” A ball performance has tremendous value.

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  64. “… but until they reach AA, it means very little.”

    No. It means less than AA, but it means something.
    Just as a lot of our current best talent is in A ball in 2010. Domonic Brown and Michael Taylor were in Low A and High A at this time in 2008. As I said, the system is no worse now than it was 2 years ago.
    The Phillies recognized they had a good draft in 2008 and they parlayed the depth they acqured into players that helped them get to the World series the last two years (and the best record in the league this year). Doing all of that, and still being no worse than they were 2 years ago is an accomplishment.

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  67. It’s about time they give Julio Rodriquez a shot with Lakewood. One 19 year older taking another 19 year olders’ spot as Pettibone goes on the DL. But Lakewood still loses another 19 year older as Cosart turns 20 on Tuesday.

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  68. “A first baseman without power in the minors is not a first baseman. Non-prospect.”

    Not making any predictions but just wondering, if Rizzotti hits .400 with 13 home runs (the number he hit last year) is he a prospect? He’s only 23. Give him a break and don’t be so quick to dismiss him as a non-prospect.

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  70. you’re right. He’s only hitting .379.

    By the way, I was mistaken about his age. He’s 24 not 23.

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  71. why would Singleton have to pay LWD for 1 year? For the sake of argument lets say he was mashing at LWD a mon thf rom now…he should be moved up to Clearwater…why hold him back? By then he will have 100AB’s and he is what he is

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  72. oh yeah he went 1-3 with a BB and 2k’s tonight…he is now hitting 394 after 33 ABs with a 500OBP/767SLG

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  74. Trevor May is really been disappointing after a good start to the season, his ERA is now over 5 and yet he is still hasnt given up more hits than innings. Its a shame he looks like he has really good stuff but no control over it, not 28 walks I think in 40 innings, never will be able to make it to the majors with that control 😦

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  75. For those of you who might be concerned that the minor league system no longer has much talent…you must not be old enough to remember what a truly horrible farm system looked like.

    As soon as Bill Giles took over the Phillies in 1981 he began to dismantle and destroy what was one of the best farm systems in baseball until the Phillies had one of the 5 worst farm systems in baseball between 1984 and 1995. Things slowly got better when Mike Arbuckle got hired from the Atlanta Braves organization in 1992 and built the farm system literally from the ground up. He wasn’t perfect, but he was a genius compared to what the Phillies had running the show before him. I don’t know if Pat Gillick’s crew can improve much on what Arbuckle was able to accomplish, but so far at least they don’t seem to have made it worse.

    I feel pretty good about this farm system. It isn’t as good as it was last year at this time, but that really is only true because of AA and AAA levels. And we all know that is simply a factor of the trades for Blanton, Lee, and Halladay. However I think we will all feel that A-, A, and A+ levels and Rookie leagues are absolutely loaded by this September. This means that by 2012, the Phillies farm system might be the best it has ever been.

    Things appear moving forward, not backward. Even the step back today compared to last year at this time appears to be only temporary. Not the beginning of any extended slide backward. And I would stress again, the only reason it has weakened slightly from say May of 2009 is because of Blanton, Lee, and Halladay. That is a pretty good trade-off if you ask me. One guy helped you win the World Series in 2008, one guy helped you get to the World Series in 2009, and the other guy you hope will win you the World Series in 2010. Well worth the cost when viewed from that perspective.

    My only criticism of the Phillies farm system the last 3 years? Not being more aggressive and willing to go significantly over slot for signing guys like Brandon Workman, Johnny Coy, Keon Broxton, Andrew Susac, and Jacob Stewart. Two 3rd Basemen, a Catcher, a big RHP, and a potentially elite OF. Those 5 guys might have made the farm system a whole lot more interesting right now.

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  77. As soon as Bill Giles took over the Phillies in 1981 he began to dismantle and destroy what was one of the best farm systems in baseball until the Phillies had one of the 5 worst farm systems in baseball between 1984 and 1995

    They even caused a suicide of a long time scout who couldn’t
    pay his contacts when Gillies cut off his money. The kindly old grandfather what a phony bastard.

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  79. Agreed Nobody. I read Giles’ book and he said he wasn’t interested in a player like Eddie Murray because he was too professional and not a dirty uniform type of guy. Yeah, players like Eddie Murray win games, dimwit.

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  80. Trevor May’s performance so far, has been the most disappointing of all the top prospects this year. Valle a close second. I expected Aumont to struggle some in AA, getting acclimated to starting pitching. I did not expect Trevor May to struggle in A ball.

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  82. WAS AT THE PIGS GAME TWO NIGHTS AGO AND SAW SCOTT MATHEISON PITCH. HE LOOKED REALLY GOOD. WAS WONDERING HOW LONG UNTIL HE ASKS FOR A TRADE. AIM SURE HE WILL WANT OUT OF THE PHILLIES SYSTEM? HE HAS BEEN PITCHING REALLY WELL AND STILL HASN’T GOTTEN A CALL UP.

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  83. Two things worriedfan…the first being that you shouldn’t be posting in all caps. It comes with a “screaming” connotation…

    As for Matheison…you really expect him to ask for a trade? After the patience the Phils have put into him? It isn’t the club’s fault that he’s been injury prone. The Phils have been good to the players in their system.

    If Matheison actually feels what you seem to think he should be feeling then the club should have let him go a while ago. I don’t think he’s on the same page as you are though.

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  84. Worriedfan:

    You are right – when you look at the span of Mathieson’s career you see just how poorly they have treated him. Let’s start from the beginning. As a 22 year-old, after laboring a nearly endless 19 games above high A ball, the Phillies had the temerity to call him up to the major leagues and then added insult to injury by actually playing him a lot. Did they think he would take that sitting down?

    Then, he injured himself. Rather than releasing him and letting him enjoy life as a “free man,” they refused to release him from these oppressive chains and, instead, paid for his surgery and lengthy rehab process and started rehabbing him down at the minor league facility (what a slap in the face! The minor leagues! Didn’t they know he was once a major leaguer!). Then, after a year of jerking his chain in rehab, he hurt himself yet again and again, they refused to release him so that he could hang out with his friends in the mall in Canada. Rather, they held fast and encouraged him to have the surgery again and paid him to go through the rehab process again. How cruel! And, finally, after the second surgery, they kept insulting him as a man by forcing him to go through the minors again, step-by-step, to ensure that he was not injured and was ready for each level of competition – I am sure it was like torture for him to pitch those 22 games last year before he was ready for AAA.

    And now, this year – it’s like they have it in for the guy. For a whole month and a half he’s been toiling at AAA and it seems like they’ve forgotten all about him and haven’t promoted him even though they could easily make room for him by release three experienced pitchers who throw in the high 90s (Madison, Baez and Contrereas), two other experienced pitchers who have a WS ring with the team (Ramirez and Durbin), and a former closer who makes $12 million a year and once went a whole season without blowing a save – you mean they can’t eat $ 12 million for Mathieson – on what planet are they living?

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  85. Seriously, I didn’t write that to be mean – just to show you that the Phils have done nothing but help and support Scott Mathieson and have always treated him with the utmost of kindness and respect. He’s going to pitch for them again and, if he doesn’t get injured, he’s got a good chance to be the closer or set-up man in a few years. If he’s traded, it will be to acquire another player they feel they need, but he’s going to be promoted at some point in the next year or so.

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  86. baez should be released. his control is terrible. i,ll take a shot with mathieson.

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  87. 5 million reasons not to release Baez. That is why I am leery of free agents. Guys like him should only be signed for as much as you are willing to eat, Spend more on a surer thing or spend less…..

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  88. So the stablemates agree on something else. There is no unusual problem with the bullpen as currently constructed and Baez has pitched often with a capability of more than one inning and is an asset and don’t believe most would see as a problem. I don’t believe the professional evaluators would. Mathieson would not receive regular work in the bullpen as currently constructed, and when they have to add Lidge and/or Madson there will be less so. There is no one in the current bullpen that needs to be replaced in their current role.

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  89. Catch 22: Nice review of Mathieson history. Jonathan Swift would have been proud of your sharp satirical saber.

    The only criticism I would make is that is a lot of screen ink wasted on a clueless ranter.

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  91. It was a quality rant and completely accurate. Its a numbers game right now and there is nowhere to put Mathieson on the 25 man. They’re not gonna release a guy like Baez to take a chance on Scott right now.

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  92. Met Mathieson in spring training and you couldnt meet a nicer grounded person. Signed a shirt for my 7 yr old son and spent time asking him about what position he played ect. He talked highly of the Phillies and said he is just happy to pitch healthy and feels great. His time will come and we will be rooting for him!

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