Fall League Update

Scottsdale returned from the short Fall league All Star break with a 3-2 loss against Mesa on Monday evening, with Edgar Garcia (2-2), taking the loss.  Garcia, gave up a run on one hit in the inning he worked.  Domonic Brown, fresh off his start in the All Star game was 1-4 with two strikeouts, while Scott Mathieson threw a scoreless eighth, walking one.

On Tuesday, Scottsdale shut out Pheonix 2-0, with Steve Susdorf getting the start in LF, and going 1-2, with a run, double, and two walks.  Tuffy Gosewisch caught and was 0-3 while Domonic Brown was 1-4 with an RBI. Pheonix came back to clobber Scottsdale 12-3 on Wednesday with Mike Cisco the victim of two Domonic Brown errors (his 4th and 5th of the Fall), causing three unearned runs to score.  In any event, Cisco was less than sharp, going three innings, and giving up 5 runs (2 earned). He walked one and struck out one. To a small extent, Brown made up for his two gaffes with a two run triple, during a 2-4 night. Steve Susdorf was 1-4 in his second consecutive start in LF, while Scott Mathieson gave up a run in the inning he tossed.

On Thursday, Scottsdale lost 6-3 to Pao Sagueros, with Tuffy Gosewisch starting at catcher and going 0-4 with an RBI, while Domonic Brown was 2-4 with a double.  Edgar Garcia pitched 2.2 innings and gave up only an unearned run, while allowing one hit and striking out one.  Michael Schwimer allowed a run on two hits in his inning of work (the 8th).  He walked one and struck out one.

Look for stats updates on AFL players Monday or Tuesday.

62 thoughts on “Fall League Update

  1. I’m starting to get concerned about Brown’s fielding issues in RF. Does anyone know what type of errors he’s making? There’s a big difference between throwing a ball away and dropping a flyball.

  2. What a joke of an article. Why do they ignore our top guys (Drabek, Brown, Taylor, etc) Swing and a miss by the “experts” at Fangraphs.

  3. It seems like Mathieson has trouble with walks, even as good as he’s been. It’s why I have doubts that he’ll start with the big club in the coming season- he’s not going to be able to get away with that in the majors.

  4. NEPP…I wouldn’t be too critical of the article. The lead-in states that the intention of the article is to get you familiar with guys who won’t be on the top ten lists. So…that’s why they ignored the top guys in the system.

  5. @nepp

    intro to fangraphs piece: “Prospect ranking season is here. Top 10 lists will be arriving shortly and in preparation for that, we present an intro series looking at some of the players who deserve mentioning but probably will not be appearing on their teams’ Top 10 lists.”

  6. I would have to say that Domonic Brown has had a disappointing AFL season so far. I was expecting a bit more out of him. I wish we had sent Taylor there instead of the Mexican League. Taylor is far more likely to play in Philly in 2010 and it would have been interesting to see him with other top prospects.

    He’s just 29th in the league with an .806 OPS. I was expecting something a bit more I guess…especially when you add in his apparent so-so fielding results from all reports.

  7. There seems to be some sort of plan with Mt. He has hit only one HR. Maybe it is a contact on breaking balls kind of plan.
    MT could hit more than one homer in Death Valley.

    I think the winter leagues give batters a look at a different kind of pitching and have been under valued by the Phils in the past.

  8. NEPP: I wouldn’t worry too much about Brown’s numbers. They’re not so bad as cause worry, and people in scouting circles always say that AFL numbers are far less important than scouting reports.

    Luckily, in that arena, Brown has done pretty well. Keith Law says that he’s still raw, but is “one of the top 20 or so prospects in the minors”; Joe Sheehan says that Brown “has a strong approach at the plate, showing skills to go with his excellent tools; he was the best position player I saw”; and Jason Grey says that the Phillies should be patient with him, but Brown “profiles as a player who can provide the total package of average, power and speed offensively.” And if you’re worried about his numbers, John Sickels has an explanation as to why they could be down…

    Phillies outfield prospect Domonic Brown has a superb set of tools and tremendous athleticism. Scouts are quibbling about a loopy, longish swing, but people who saw him earlier this year suspect he’s just tired right now and his swing is wilting as a result. The tools are certainly outstanding and I was very taken with his projectability.

  9. Seems like the Phils minor league department is on the “horns of a dilemma” thanks to winter ball. The winter league play is proving that Valle is too advanced to start next season at low A. He is hitting on par with Phils AAA bats in the Mexican Pacific League with a week left in the first half of the season. Right now his OPS is 1.099 vs. career AAA lifer Cervenak’s 1.025 and his .325 batting average is much higher than AAA/MLer Mayberry’s .257. Valle has hit 9 homers in 42 fewer at bats than Cervenak who has hit 8 homers to this point. And he has been throwing out base at about 50% in recent games.

  10. I’m not worrying about Dom Brown’s hitting, it should come around, but his continued inadequate fielding is a growing concern. He’s still young, but, given his athleticism, the comments about how green he is in the field are troubling. Contrast this to M. Taylor, who is said to be an outstanding outfielder with a cannon arm and, who, by the way, is also doing a nice job at the plate (albeit, this winter, with limited power).

  11. This whole thing about Valle skipping levels is nuts. He’s not a college kid. Let him go to Lakewood and let’s see how he does. What the worst thing that will happen? He’ll dominate a league for two months and gain confidence – how is that a bad thing for a 20 year old?

  12. I have to agree with Catch 22 here. Valle struggled mightily at Lakewood last year, so to me, he needs to prove he can hit at that level before the organization sends him to the pitcher’s haven that is the FSL. And while what he’s done in Mexico is very impressive, it’s only a 77 AB sample size, and he could stand to control the strike zone a bit better (14 K and only 2 BB).

    And he’s still only 19. No need to rush him, unless we want the Phillies to become the Mets.

  13. Maybe Valle is one of those rare batters who gets better as he goes up and faces more controlled pitchers. If so his catching knowledge will help. But I have to throw a fouth vote
    for Lakewood. Two months will tell a story.

  14. I had the thought that if they had any idea of trading MT ,he would be in the fall league not Mexico.

  15. I read Fangraphs once and don’t believe anything on it. Bunch of hooey. I also checked out Dewan’s (sp.) defensive rankings and even Sickels’ and find it hard to believe. I don’t think anyone can quantify defensive rankings. Case in point – I saw Rollins ranked as the 9th best SS in the NL!

  16. Hooey is a nice word for it. How do you account for pitchers and parks completely. And don’t forget the groundskeeper and weather.

  17. hey, you guys can guess at who is a better fielder, and player in general, but I’m gonna enjoy myself knowing, with facts to back me up, who the better players are. thats why fangraphs is the best site for statistical baseball analysis availible to the public for free. Baseball prospectus comes close, but they charge. and baseball america falls victum to trussting scouting reports and almost disregarding numbers (look at their top ten for our system and tell me they aren’t heavily influenced by scouting reports.

    bottom line is, baseball lends itself to the use of stats more than any other sport, because it is the most induvidualistic sport out there. Its easy to keep track of results. and results are what matter.
    you want to know who used UZR to become a better defensive club and make the playoffs? The rays in 08. they used advanced defesive stats to make them a good fielding team and get to the playoffs.
    just because you two are in the dark ages of baseball analysis doesn’t mean that you should blast the people who are trying to learn. you’re like 15th century peasents calling science witchcraft.

  18. You can’t just think of Valle, you also have to consider D’Arnaud. Defensively, D’Arnaud is ahead of Valle and he seemed to be slightly ahead offensively, at least until the end of the season. D’Arnaud is not ready for Reading, so he will be at CLW to start the season. That leaves Valle at Piedmont. This isn’t a bad thing for a couple of reasons. First, Valle started very slowly at Piedmont this year and there is more than a slight chance he would start very slowly if promoted to CLW. Second, he has not had a chance to be a full-time catcher in full-season ball yet and needs that for his defense. Better that he not be beaten down by the FL heat and humidity. Hopefully Gosewich remains with the Phillies and I think he is our Reading starting catcher. He is great D and a guy who should be kept in the organization, both because he can be a major league backup if he can improve his batting a bit and because he is a great catcher to have with your developing pitchers. AAA will house the experienced catchers who will be emergency fill-ins if a major league catcher is injured.

  19. Thanks for the scouting reports on D. Brown. That makes me feel a bit better.

    Valle will start at Lakewood as D’Arnaud will start at Clearwater. I doubt that they’ll make the mistake of having them at the same level again like they did in 09…that was detrimental to both players and it showed.

    I love UZR as a stat but like any other defensive metric, it is not the end all, be all of statistics. Jimmy doesn’t do well on UZR and I will be the first to admit that that annoys me. However, Jimmy’s strength has never been amazing range. Its his accurate strong arm and his sure hands. He makes a good play on every ball he gets to (Jeter is the same way albeit with a more accurate arm). Using one metric to bash a player is a mistake just as it is a mistake to heap praise on Furcal as a result of his high UZR at the position. Furcal might get to balls but he doesn’t field them well as his 20+ errors shows.

    Sorry, back to the minors: I agree that MT is likely working on something specific. Last year, his mission in the Hawaiian league was to work on plate discipline and pitch recognition. This year, he’s probably also working on something.

    Fangraphs is a good site (Hell, I post there somewhat regularly) but its has its limitations like any other tool.

  20. UZR doesn’t count balls that players get to, just outs made by the player. so errors and bad throws still hurt. and rollins does normally do very well in UZR, just this year he was not the best. (Utley should have won 4 straight gold gloves though.)

  21. A short time ago, I suggested that the Phils work Valle in to be a 3rd baseman.
    I take note that BA, in their top ten list, has listed him at 3rd base for a 3 year future position players…though it was their default choice because there was no real 3rd base prospect in the system.

    Since Valle seems like a hitting GEM and most likely the future catcher is going to be D’Arnaud, I’d love to see him working out at 3rd base.

    He is only 20 (?) so there would be time for 3 seasons of coaching at 3rd. I don’t know if he is suited to field that position, but shouldn’t they try him there?

  22. Art D.
    Some think a few games at third will lead to global warming,
    the explosion of a super volcano and visits from outer space.

  23. See that Mayberry is 10 for 20 against lefties in Mexico but hitting only .241 against righties there. If he could only hit righties for average. Wonder what the AAA outfield will look like with Q. Berry in PR winter ball. Something like Taylor, Berry and Mayberry. Would be worth the price of admission.

  24. If valle puts on weight the Eagles need a bruising rb also. cmon with this convert valle to 3B already. he is going to stay at catcher……unless he can’t handle the position then he will end up in corner of. d’arnaud is no guarantee to pan out anyway so keep him at catcher and rent a 3b until we develop someone. no wheels global warming is fake, super volcano isn’t gonna erupt in our time and aliens work at msnbc.

  25. For the last time no one says to not let Valle catch just a second position. Hello. Are you listening. 20 strinkin games.

    Who told you about the MSNBC aliens I need a name.

  26. 20 games at third is a lot. It’s not just the games, it’s the practice time. He’s such a raw catcher, it’s not really fair to ask even more of him. He should be asked to focus on one position and that should be catcher.

  27. The entire point of the AFL is to work on things like that. Its a practice league. If the team wants him to work on 3B, they likely have a good reason. Remember, guys switch positions all the time. Werth started off as a catcher too.

  28. Tom it is my idea that time not in a crouch can be time well spent. Valle has to develop all his body. Really I am done with this. Blinders are for others

  29. Walker was looking good for a while until the pressure mounted. At one point he looked like a shoe in for the post season. Shame!

  30. Hitting catchers are far more valuable than hitting 3B, although you might not know that to look at the phillies’ system. Don’t think of where does Valle have to play to be on the Phillies. Think of value as in how do we get the most out of Valle. If D’Arnaud makes it, that would be great and maybe Valle will get traded. If not, maybe Valle does better and passes d’Arnaud. However, that’s still 3 years away and things happen. Maybe both catchers will hit this year and Valle will be a major piece in a trade deadline deal for another pitcher. That’s not the least possible thing that could happen. Unfortunately, minor league players are just assets to be groomed and sometimes traded for major league pieces. Teams striving for world series appearances rarely have rookies in key spots.

  31. nowheels, I do understand your thought, and there certainly are physical benefits from not crouching, but there are many negative benefits from the mental aspect. Why do you think they are moving Hewitt from 3b? Remember when they tried Utley at third? During this development time, I think it’s best to keep the mental challenges to a minimum and see how he develops. I don’t want him worrying about anything but developing as a catcher, a tremendous challenge in and of itselft, and continuing to grow as a hitter.

  32. Maybe we can get a separate thread for this. The minor league free agent list is available.

    http://thegameofbaseball.myblog.it/

    Philadelphia (29)

    Pitchers: RHP Jason Anderson, LHP Cedrick Bowers, LHP Gustavo Chacin, RHP Alexander Concepcion, RHP Tristan Crawford, RHP John Ennis, RHP Santos Hernandez, LHP Jason Mackintosh, RHP Gary Majewski, LHP Brian Mazone, LHP Jake Woods

    Catchers: Paul Hoover, Kevin Nelson

    Infielders: Mike Cervenak, J.J. Furmaniak, Orlando Guevara, Brad Harman, Fidel Hernandez, Carlos Leon, David Newhan, Terry Tiffee, Andy Tracy, Jorge Velandia

    Outfielders: Javis Diaz, Jason Ellison, Michael Spidale, Kevin Mahar, Brian Stavisky, Rich Thompson

  33. I would not lose any sleep if any of those did not resign with the Phils. Cervanek is a nice 3B for LH, but you can get another like him. Harman, I think, has found his level, which is A ball.

  34. Have any of you guys listened to the most recent BA Podcast? They are absolutely gushing about the Phillies system.

  35. They moved Hewitt form 3rd because he cant play the position! His hitting picked up only after he was shifted to the OF. As far as their minor lg FA list: who cares? theres a few guys I like, but theyre not bluechippers, theyre just older filled guys.

    The Phillies system is awesome. I dont want to talk about hotstove, but they could afford to trade Taylor for a major league player (good one, obviously) and their system would still be very deep at the OF.

  36. Hernandez is 25 and still in Clearwater. He is most likely a non-prospect. Maybe OK to bring back for depth but that is it.

  37. ****As far as their minor lg FA list: who cares? theres a few guys I like, but theyre not bluechippers, theyre just older filled guys.****

    You need filler in your minor-league system. Not everyone is a prospect. Its important to have good filler to help the real prospects develop (See Bull Durham).

    Some might be brought back despite being non-tendered.

  38. utley didn’t work at third because he doesn’t have the arm for it.
    And third base is way less important than catcher. playing third cuts his position vakue in half, basically.

  39. I for one thinks that players can run and chew gum at the same time. Listen to Schwimer the guys that are tough enough to play the game are just that “tough enough”. To think that a guy would fold up or be stressed at every little thing is absurd.
    If Valle or any other player has a future there is no need to cuddle them anymore that anything anyone could of done would of grown Eaton a pair.

  40. Personally, I just think it’s stupid to adjust your minor leaguers in low A ball based on the perceived needs of your major league club right now.

  41. The real story is from Todd Zolecki that the Phils have currently only 27 players on the 40 man and must by Friday add players from the system who would otherwise be exposed to Rule 5 if they are not added to the 40 man according to Scott Proefrock.

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