Daily Discussion

Pablo Ozuna was released by the Phillies organization after serving his 50 game suspension for testing positive for a banned substance.

Brian Rosenberg made his AA debut on Friday evening and pitched two scoreless innings for Reading. Scott Mathieson followed that up with another scoreless inning of his own.

Down in Clearwater, friend of Phuture Phillies, Michael Schwimer has not given up an earned run in his last nine appearances, spanning 12 innings,  He has struck out 18 during the same period.

Jason Knapp was listed as the #4 prospect in the Indian system, while  Carlos Carrasco was ranked 10th  by Jim Calis of Baseball America in his recent list of the Top 10 prospects in the Indians organization.  Both Marson and Donald were not on the list.

Kyle Drabek went 5 innings and gave up 4 runs on 6 hits tonight against Binghamton. Here is one vote for shutting him down or significantly limiting his innings for the remainder of the year.  He is currently at 140 IP.

82 thoughts on “Daily Discussion

  1. I was at the Binghamton game and must say I was not impressed with Drabek. Certainly this is just a one-time snap judgment, but his behavior and body language was completely unprofessional and immature. The leadoff batter hit a no-doubt-about-it rocket way out of the park and after an out, Kyle walked two batters. At that point the catcher went to the mound and Drabek furiously kicked at the landing area. He did the same after getting in trouble in the third inning. He was clearly unhappy with the mound. But it made him look like a bratty kid. But there was more. After getting out of the first inning with a pair of Ks, he stormed into the dugout and fired his glove into the bench, walked down to the other end, appearing to get a drink. He walked back and fired his cup into the corner before getting ready to hit.

    I sat fairly close, but still this is conjecture on my part. But it seemed as though Drabek ignored teammates and he appeared cocksure, strutting around like the biggest, baddest man in the ballpark. This is not a bad thing. He reminded me of Josh Beckett’s demeanor in this regard. But given Drabek’s past, it was a lot disappointing to see these things, which run counter to the articles and interviews we have been reading.

    I hope he’s just experiencing some growing pains.

  2. It’s hard to get a read on a pitcher in a single appearance. I once saw J.A. Happ give up seven runs in the first inning.

  3. Thats why Gene Garber was talking about how they bring pitchers up too early nowadays. Saying people they bring up at 22,23 should really be held another year or two to learn the mental discipline you need to command your pitches, especially in a jam. It was a great interview. They talked about how Nolan Ryan is leading the charge in baseball to re-develop your minor leaguers to have more stamina by increasing their pitch counts as they go through the system and look like their a real prospect. Then leaving them in the minors longer to mature instead of throwing them out to the wolves like we see EVERY year.

    Id actually advocate leaving Drabek down there at least until next July barring catastrophic injuries to the current staff. And he needs to KEEP pitching. Drabek needs to finish out the season to train some endurance into him. If he gets injured again, then so be it. Convert him into a reliever if he cant handle the innings of a starter. Thats how it has always worked until this era of babying pitchers. Bastardo is a very good pitcher but he doesnt appear to be able to handle the starter’s workload. So you make him into a reliever. you dont have them be major league starters and BABY them through 5 or 6 innings and be ok with it.

    After the game the other day Charlie said that after 127 pitches he felt that JA Happ still could have thrown a few more innings and have been going strong up to 180 pitches. His last pitch of the CG SO was a 94 mph heater. Were going to start seeing more of that desire to have your pitchers go deeper into games like the old days. THe Phillies have joined the Rangers in that now too. Charlie says he wants his horses to go 7 innings at least of quality ball. That will be echoed in the minors as well.

    Thats why Moyer wont be in the rotation anymore. Thats why guys like Kendrick and Carpenter might be better off as long relievers if they want to stick in the majors.

    Hamels is a HUGE baby. He needs to suck it up and keep logging innings. He doesnt appear to be injured so I dont wanna hear it Shut your mouth, go out there and pitch.

  4. Alan Says:

    It’s hard to get a read on a pitcher in a single appearance. I once saw J.A. Happ give up seven runs in the first inning.

    That must of been the first game back after his first start in the majors. He should of never went out for the fifth inning since he came to the Phils still rehabbing.

  5. Drabek has hit the innings wall.

    I think its almost time to shut him down for the season.

    He’s had an awesome year, I wouldn’t read too much into his actions. Ideal? No, but he was pissed at the mound and himself, and he’s not the first guy who’s gone through that. He’ll learn.

  6. True. But given that this was the big red flag on the guy coming out of HS and it was the first time I’ve seen him in person, it was alarming and disappointing at the same time.

    I’ll see if I can find some media reporting on his antics this evening. I would like to think the reporting in general reflects an accurate picture of our young players. Of course, it is entirely possible this was an out-of-character night for Kyle.

  7. Got to my first Williamsport game this year even though I only live 3 miles away.
    Valle and Hewitt didn’t start, but got to see Collier, Castro and Hernandez pitched.
    My impression on Collier: super speed, stretched a single to RF into an easy double, looked as fast from 1st to 2nd as anyone I’ve ever seen. He just needs time to work on pitch recognition. Castro seems to have good arm, but a big swing.

  8. Count me in the ‘keep pitching’ camp. We need endurance out of our starters. Hamels has looked tired and frustrated all season. Injuries surely have something to do with it. Not injuries this season, but injuries in the past. It has limited the endurance he has built.

    Because of the Tommy John surgery recovery, there is no good ‘Verducci effect’ number for Drabek this season. No good 30-innings threshold, because every inning over 60 was going to be too many innings. So, I think he should push through the end of the season. Let him scuffle. If we trust our coaches, we shouldn’t be worried about a fatigue injury. It should be a learning experience for Drabek. How to pitch with fatigue. How to cope with poor outings. It will make him a better starter. Or, he’ll wash out of the rotation sooner, and we can make something else of him.

    I also enjoyed the Gene Garber commentary. I’m not saying I agree with everything he said. Or, that the Phillies are now following the new/old Nolan Ryan pitching philosophy. I see Phillies pitching prospects still being babied. Carrasco seemed like a good example of a pitcher who never learned to go beyond 100 pitches. It’s knocking down our starting pitching prospects when they reach higher levels. It’s showing up in Hamels’ struggles this season.

    I see Drabek as a good test case for doing it a different way. It’s risky because he’s our top pitching prospect. But, if it works, we develop a ‘horse’ for Charlie Manuel.

  9. pitchers get mad sometimes, hes a competitive kid, hes not the first or the last pitcher to throw stuff in the dugout because of frustration

  10. also though Hamels was labelled as a hot head as a prospect.
    And look at zambrano he is the biggest hot head yet he is still good. sorry for all the posts, having racy thoughts.

  11. I respect Garber, but I thought some of what he said was bunk. Pitchers come up too early? Rick Porcello is the youngest player in the majors. Thirty years ago, there were at least ten younger players in the majors.

    Looking at the Phillies in particular. In the 1960s they had 8 pitchers pitch for them aged 21 or younger. In this decade, four. In the 1960s they had 19 pitchers aged 23 or younger. In the 2000s they had 13. Pitchers are NOT coming to the majors earlier, and in fact it is quite the opposite.

  12. Gammons reporting that Mathieson is throwing in the
    upper 90s in Reading. Can that be true?

  13. When and where would you rather Drabek learn to pitch a lot of innings – now and next year in Reading and Lehigh Valley, or over several years from now in Philly? The sooner, the better, in my opinion. And, I’d rather he learn while still a prospect, not while he is in the major league rotation. It hurts the big club. (see: Hamels this season)

  14. This from the B Mets manager:

    “I think (Drabek) lost his composure,” Oliveras said. “It looked he was having problems with the mound, with the umpire.”

  15. There is NO upside to not cutting Drabek’s innings None.
    Gene Garber had no success until he came here at 26. He had limited ability until he developed a unusual style. We all
    relate by our own experience and times.

    Younger guys have no idea what life was like then. One of the guys in High School mixed cement by hand after school etc.
    Could you see that today? He had incredible muscle and circulation development by 18, which would of served him well in sports.

    I finally got to see MT on TV last night. Am i wrong in saying
    he has great bat speed?

  16. Has anyone noticed that Schwimer’s streak started when he became a Contributor here? Maybe we’ve inspired him to greatness.

    And put me in the “shut Drabek down” camp.

    – Jeff

  17. For those of you in the “keep pitching camp”. Your point is to develop muscle endurance. You can do that without increased
    circulation to the shoulder and elbow that takes TIME and demand. Drabek has no history of “demand” especially last year. This is dangerous ground and no need to walk in a minefield. A severly limited schedule maybe followed by the fall league is my vision.
    A little time in the bullpen especially AAA might expose Drabek
    to other points of view and older pitchers.

  18. Put me in the pitch counts and limited innings are ridiculous paralysis by analysis camp. Every time a young pitcher struggles it’s because he threw too many pitches in a game or a season. When nothing happens it’s never mentioned. It’s time for some pushback and bravo to Nolan Ryan for bucking the trend. The Rangers are having a terrific season.

    And where are the “experts” predicting doom and gloom for Tim Lincecum? I could go on and on, but suffice to say Lincecum is completely dominant when he throws 115 or more pitches. Back in the day starting pitchers started 35-40 games and completed 25-30 of em.

    This whole new age crap is just that. Pitchers need to tune out agents and hangers-on and realize they don’t need Tommy John every time their arm is sore or they feel a twinge in their elbow.

  19. Jake “the day ” is over. Completely different like styles today.
    Kids went into the mines at 14 in “the day”.

    What you are forgetting is that there were fewer teams then.
    If they overpitched a young pitcher, they threw him away and called him a “flash in a pan”. For every pitcher who held up there 20 or 30 who didn’t.
    I have said before Ruth was the end of the completely game.(only Feller surpassed his 35 out of 38 ,one year) that was 1920. The Stengel family business was wetting down dirt streets,
    Please face the day.

  20. This whole pitch count thing is crazy. 100-120 pitches a game shouldn’t be a big deal. You hear about in the “old days” pitchers pitching 180-200+ pitches in a game. Lets be real if it takes a pitcher 100 pitches to go 5 innings is he really being effective? Do you want a guy on the mound if he not in control? If the guy has 99 after the 7th let him finish if he’s still going strong but please this 180 pitch BS is out of control nonsense! Nolan Ryan was a very special pitcher and he could go nine and k 10,15 guys a start. They’re aren’t to many Nolan Ryan’s out there.

  21. I too was at the Reading vs. Binghamton game. Here are my impressions of it.

    While Kyle Drabek did struggle, he also had many positive points in the game. As I was watching the game, I listened to the Met’s announcer on the radio channel. I also made sure that I got a seat directly behind the plate and was two rows behind Mike Stutes and Mike Cisco who were charting the game and using the Phillies radar gun to track the speed of the pitch. They were approximate 20 ft from me but across the walking concourse. I tried to look at the reading on the radar gun to see if it matched the reading on the stadium gun but was too far away and even with binoculars could not read it. Later on in the game, I would stand on the concourse closer to their radar gun and was able to compare some of the reading on the Phillies gun to the stadium gun and for the most part they were in agreement.

    Drabek started the game by giving up a long home run to left on a 93 mph up and in fastball to a very small sized shortstop. He then got an out after a full count and the proceeded to walk the next two batters after both had worked the count full and had fouled off a number of pitches. Drabek fastball was at 93, 94 and 95 on most pitches. The next hitter, he got ahead with two strikes then proceeded to work the count full. On ball three, he threw a 96 mph fastball up and in to back the batter off the plate. He then threw an 86 mph Brad Lidge best slider to the batter who then swung and missed. Tim Kennelly, the catcher, could not catch that pitch as it went through the wickets for a passed ball. The runners moved up to 3rd and 2nd and the batter easily made it to 1st but he was sent to the dugout because 1st base was occupied. The next batter Drabek started off with two strikes and the proceeded to throw a 96 mph fastball up and in for a ball to back the batter off the plate. I don’t know if Drabek has a head hunter instinct in him but the next pitch was the fastest of the night and went right at the head of the batter. A 97mph fastball, that forced the batter to dive into the dirt. Drabek then proceed to throw a 74 mph curve ball that must have broke over three feet down and away from the batter. You could see the batter starting to bail away from the plate with his upper body then you could see his feet buckling as the umpire call strike three. The batter then agued with the umpire on the call. The two 96 mph fastballs and the 97 mph fastball were the only pitches over 95 for the night and all three were thrown up and in.

    A concern was that Drabek threw a ton of pitches in the first inning (and throughout the game) and he could not get the batters to swing and miss on his fastball. It looked like he had a good amount of movement on the fastball but I don’t believe that he got even one swing and miss on it. There were a tremendous amount of foul balls on the fastball. All of the swing and misses were on his slider, curveball and change-up. Another concern is that Drabek’s slider and change-up are both at about the same speed 84 to 86 mph. His curveball varies from 74 to 78, 79 and 80 mph.

    Throughout the game, Drabek kept digging at the mound as he did not like his land spot. I don’t know if the mound had a soft spot or if the other pitcher landing spot created a hole on the mound that affected Drabek. The Met’s radio announcer said that the Phillies manager had complained to the umpire about it but nothing was done about it. The announcer said that Drabek has started 8 games at home and this was only his 3 start on the road. He also said that he was a prima dona at home getting the mound set up to his every wim. This continued to get Drabek upset thoughout the game as he pawed at the mound in every inning.

    Drabek has a good understanding of pitching as he knows how to set up hitters and he threw his fastball to all four quadrant of the strike zone as needed. He pitched up and in, down and in, up and away, and down and away with the fastball. While he was clearly upset about the mound, he retained his composure to throw his game even though he was having trouble throwing strikes.

    I will wager that he threw probably 110 to 120 pitches in the five innings of work. He had one easy inning with only about 5 pitches thrown. On the chart that Mike Cisco was taking, I believe that he was listing the number of pitches thrown to each batter and their were a lot of 7’s, 8’s, and 9’s per at bat.

    In the first, second and third inning, Drabek’s fastball was recording speeds of 93, 94, and 95. In the forth and fifth inning, he lost about 1mph on it with the speed recording of 92, 93, and 94.

    An interesting comment was made by the Met’s broadcaster. He said that Drabek was not impressive and he then compared him to a Met’s prospect. He said that the Met prospect is more impressive because he was drafted last year and is already in AA while it took four years for Drabek to get to AA.

    Here are some of my observations on other Phillies prospects.

    Domonic Brown hit a long sf in the first inning probably about 380 ft. He made a fantastic catch on a ball that he ran a long ways for. He made a diving catch. He was parallel to the ground about 3 ft above it when he made the catch. At a critical point in the game with runner on 2nd and 3rd with 2 out when a hit could tie the game he struck out.

    Steve Susdorf is not very big. He looks size wise like a secondbase man or shortstop.

    Tim Kennelly had 2 passed balls and let 2 runners steal 2nd base.

    I was also at Thursday’s Lehigh Valley at Scranton Wilkes-Barre game and was going to post my observations from that game but we will do it at some other time.

  22. One extra fact : Pitchers today are taller and the laws of angular motion that allow them to throw faster put more stress on joints.
    Most HOF starting pitchers are between 6′ and 6’2″. As far as i have seen Drysdale was first of the giant pitchers. The Phils have as many pitchers 6’3″ and over than the whole HOF.

  23. There’s a fairly strong correlation between the lowering of the pitchers mound and the decline of pitch counts in baseball. There’s also a huge difference between throwing every pitch 100% like they do now as opposed to being able to get away with only 80% against the bottom of the order. That doesn’t happen anymore.

    Thus, we don’t get a lot of CG anymore. Oh well.

  24. This whole debate is kind of silly. I vote one more start, then shut him down. You don’t flirt with disaster with your number one prospect, no matter how wonderful the olden days were or whatever.

  25. Skunky we agree. lol
    With Romero out again and showing Tommy John like pains,
    does the Z man get a play??

  26. I’d shut Drabek down. Yes, he needs to build endurance, but first full year back from surgery isn’t the time. We’ve seen what effect last year’s big increase in IP had on Hamels’ performance this season. Just not the same guy. I’d let him rest a few starts, while Pedro auditions, in hopes a little rest regenerates him for playoffs.

  27. I’ve seen Zagurski pitch a few times this year, and he’s not ready for the bigs yet. Quite honestly, I’m not sure if he’ll ever be “ready”, but since he’s a lefty, I’m sure he’ll get a few more chances than the average reliever.

    I think Zagurski might be one of those guys who caught fire when he first came up (sort of like Kendrick), and really isn’t a major league pitcher. I haven’t been impressed with what I’ve seen.

    From all accounts though, he’s a hell of a guy. I just don’t think he has the secondary pitches to be a successful big league pitcher.

  28. I was thinking he pitches well under pressure and with guys on. Ground ball guy who can get a double play. No? Walks scare me though.

  29. First they would have to try him in relief at Lehigh. Actually I was just trying to start some debate on this topic. Any other ideas? Anyone. Can we duplicate Happ.

  30. Taschner looked almost as bad last night as he did in Philly. Plus he still has a hard time with lefthanders. Escanola???

  31. There is just not a whole lot of other good lefty candidates at any of the levels. Bastardo has health issues. And its not like the big club needs to develop any more lefty starters with Hamels, Happ, and Lee (and Moyer). probably gonna have at least have two to three good lefties in your rotation for a while. So why not convert Joe?

  32. In terms of pure numbers, I think Savery might be able to replicate what Romero has done this year. Romero’s command hasn’t really been anything great this year (it never really has). Romero’s entire success seems to be built around he has that *IT* factor that allows him to come up big in tight situations. Not sure if Savery has that.

  33. ive been saying it for awhile now, matheison needs to be in the major league bullpen by august 31 and possibly on the playoff roster

  34. honestly the minors pitching situation seems to be in a state of confusion. i cant think of anyone with dynamic enough stuff to dent the phils( except for drabek). i see at least a year of weeding out and defining roles.

  35. i see last night bad outings from savery 4 bb,s cloyd. m.taylor 2-4. maybe he,s waking up.

  36. In terms of lefties – what about Cedrick Bowers? He’s been very successful at the AAA level this year, but is he really just a AAAA type player (like Les Waldron last year?).

    Haven’t ever seen him in person, so would appreciate some insights anyone has on him.

  37. Matheison doesn’t have to stay up if he has options just a cup of coffee to qualify . Please correct me if I am wrong.
    I forgot about Bastardo anyone know what’s up with him.

  38. Jake, thanks for the report on Drabek. It is concerning that this guy is still acting like that in AA. You would think his father would talk some sense into him.

    As for Schwimer, this finalizes it, he has to continue posting on PP and continue this hot streak.

  39. Moving Drabek to the bullpen this season makes no sense to me. You limit his innings, but increase how often he works. You change his routine. You mess more with your star prospect doing it that way, I would think.

    I’d rather he pitches the innings. If he is fully recovered from the Tommy John surgery now, I don’t see what the problem is. Why wait until we need or want him in the major league rotation for him to learn?

    I don’t want him throwing 180 pitches every start (or any start) as some sort of tribute to the ‘good old days.’ I just want our superstar to be able to handle the workload by the time he reaches Philly.

  40. Jake “the day ” is over. Completely different like styles today.
    Kids went into the mines at 14 in “the day”.

    “What you are forgetting is that there were fewer teams then.
    If they overpitched a young pitcher, they threw him away and called him a “flash in a pan”. For every pitcher who held up there 20 or 30 who didn’t.”

    I give you credit for an intelligent thesis, but alas, an incorrect one. The complete game continued well into the 1980s — the modern era of 28-30 teams, the annual draft, free agency and so on.

    Of course, you’re right to a degree. It’s the modern era of million-dollar contracts and the influence of agents (and teams) too quick to protect their investments.

    The fact is a lot of surgeries pitchers have are elective surgeries. If there’s any doubt, they and their advisors opt for the knife.

    You’re right to mock my fondness for “the day.” For the day of baseball being just a game played by grown men for the love of the game is long gone.

  41. Jake
    I wasnt mocking anything. It just that we remember things
    sometimes in a wrong prospective. A LOT of the old timers we
    saw we great but there was a fairy tale being spun at the same time. In “the day” they told us what they wanted us to know.
    Most of the elective surgeries are done on marginal talent desperate to measure up. I can’t say I wouldn’t do it myself if I was on the doorstep. And Jake if you were peeking thru the door you would too,I bet.
    There was a lot of good in the day but a lot of bad we never saw.

  42. Remember I said the first time I saw Jaramillo catch I realized
    the mistake they made. It has to be fixed. Through the season just about all the players get to carry the team a game or two or more. We have rally killers

  43. PP, is there any chance, if youre going to allow continuous big club discussion, that u can have a daily discussion that somehow identifies it as being big club related…I love the site alot, but really look to come here for minor league stuff…Everytime i click on daily discussion its now 80% big club related(at least from the posters, not greg) and maybe 20% minor league related…Its just becoming tedious to sort thru the daily discussion thread to actually find a couple minor league tidbits…Just a question..

  44. ps..it was completely understandable around the trade deadline, but thats long over now

  45. you know nowheels, this may be one of the first imes that i have agreed with you, but this is the single most important thing to realize when a guy is getting tired. Drabek doesn’t need to go from pitching 100-120 innings a year in HS and his first couple of minor league , then losing a year of development to an injury, right to 200 innings pitched. it is just really not smart.

  46. Drabek goes right to 200 innings pitched? That doesn’t sound like what is happening. No matter how many innings he pitches this season, it will be a huge leap. He’s already lost major development time due to injury. I don’t think we should take more time away just because we’re scared. If he’s healthy, I think he should keep pitching.

    Isn’t there risk either way? You risk injury with every pitch he throws. But, don’t you also risk underdeveloping Drabek if you start taking pitches away from him?

    I’m not saying we should abandon all our methods and start following Nolan Ryan’s unproven ideas. But, Drabek is healthy now, for longer than Hamels ever got. He’s moving fast through the system, but not as fast as Hamels. There isn’t a need in the majors. We can keep Drabek in the minors and continue to develop him. I just don’t see how it is smart to limit that development.

  47. Maybe the best thing for Drabek would be to keep pitching him, but have him on some kind of pitch count. Maybe 80 pitches a game? That should get him through 5-6 on most nights.

  48. John, the Bingo Mets just pulled off a delayed steal on Kennelly which resulted in a run. He has thrown out only 3 runners in 15 attempted steals at AA. Tim was placed in a difficult position since he caught little at Clearwater before his call up and Neil Sellers is the everyday third baseman at Reading. The regular catcher Tuffy Gosewisch is taking BP and is expected back from the DL in a few days. I suspect Kennelly will then continue his role as a corner utility guy.

  49. Confidence Man-

    I agree, there is no real rush to push drabek throught just yet. that is one of thereasons that I say that we should really limit him for the rest of the year. go all jobba rules on him. We don’t need to push him more than he has been pushed this year. the big club has time, so drabek has time. just gotta slow him down this year.

  50. From what I saw the other night at Reading, Kennelly is not an everyday catcher. In an ideal situation, he should be an emergency catcher on most teams.

  51. What type of prospect is Leandro Castro ? He has destroyed the ball at Williamsport. Only 20.

  52. Matt–
    In regards to Bowers…He is very similar to Steven Randolph a pitcher who pitched for LV last year. Bowers sometimes has unhittable stuff. His control is simply too inconsistent for the Phils to take a chance on him as a situational lefty at this stage in the season I would think.

  53. and in regards to this back and forth banter about the comments and major league talk…As Phuture Phillies has said in the passed, this is a site about the Phils minor league system Some small degree of overlap is expected when discussing the top of the system, but it should be a SMALL DEGREE. Comments going on and on about the big Phils simply should be taken elsewhere. It took a good deal of time cleaning things up today.

  54. Dom Brown keeps on moving up in the land of prospects. Homerun #2 hit in the first inning tonight.

  55. The comments nonsense is going to stop. I’m going to just start deleting comments, and if it continues from the same people, I’ll just mark their comments as spam, and then the comments head straight to the spam filter.

  56. Second home run of the night for Brown. Does anyone here think he starts at AAA next year? I don’t think this level is much of a challenge for him.

  57. No way Brown starts in AAA, mainly due to timing and logjam in front of him. I’m real curious how they proceed with Taylor and Brown. Werth is locked in for one more year and Ibanez for two. Guess there is a chance that they move Taylor in the offseason for some type of upgrade, just not sure what!

  58. I’d love for them to try and move Taylor in the offseason for some IF help. Ideally it would be a prospect for prospect trade.

  59. They should not trade Taylor for some prospect infielder. They will not get equivalent quality, and if the other team had the quality of Taylor in a SS or 3B there is no way they would get rid of them for merely a similar player who played OF.

    You Mean that Brown would not start next season in AAA? What’s in front of him? Taylor and a few career minor leaguers. Brown will get some 150 AB’s by the end of the AA season. If he continues to hit at a good rate and all , he would qualify to start next season at AAA. If there are some of the career minor leaguers in the way they will not be brough back.

    Kenelly could also move up hitting wise. He could be LF, while Brown does CF, and Taylor in RF. They can hope to develop his defense at C, to where he can catch a couple of games a week as an OF/C , if he can arrive at MLB level.

  60. If Brown continues producing in Reading through the end of the year (no reason to belive why he wouldn’t), I see an outfield in AAA next year of Mayberry, Taylor, Brown and Q Berry as the 4th OF with all rotating into DH at times to give everyone at bats. Kennelly has not produced at AA yet. I would be very surprised if he moves up at the beginning of the year.

  61. I think the point about how to develop pitchers in different eras is a key to understanding today’s workload practices.

    Here’s my non-scentific view, up for any scientific scrutiny you may want to supply:

    In previous eras, there were an over-abundance of arms in minors, so that served as a test of pitcher endurance. Lots of guys could throw well in reduced number of innings, but they often blew their arms out when asked to up the IP at a younger age. The population was feeding only 16 teams for a long time, and the horses like Robin Roberts, Tom Seaver, and many others with condsiderable girth and body power (not just arm strength), were left standing when the guys without the staying power dropped out level by level under the severe challenge. What was left was a number of guys who could pitch a lot of complete games and did not need to be babied.

    Now you have a bunch of kids feeding twice the number of teams. The real horses–those who can pitch like horses at a young age–are still a rarity, and most need time to develop their bodies, add weight, perfect mechanics, etc. Hence the pitch count practices of today.

    Most of the guys coming up today need this “babying.” Hamels is a prime example, great arm, skinny body. In another three years, he could fill out a bit (if his arm is still intact) and take on more workload, but for now, he needs the coddling.

    Another factor is pitching style. Today, many teams preach a high release point and pitching down to the hitters. The physics of this practice are sound. A high-to-low angle from mound to plate can be tough for a hitter to see and hit.

    However, this has negative effects too. Guys like Roberts, Koufax, Seaver, Bunning and more or less that whole generation dropped their bodies down almost to thie knees and drove through the pitch, using their bodies a LOT MORE than today. I think it’s possible this change in style could have an effect on the frequency of arm problems. Another effect of pitching “low” is that the ball starts out much lower, and if it stays at the knees, you get the older style of pitching where many pitches are low all the way though the pitch and the ball is typically at a knee plane throughout. I liked that syle and think we lost something in getting away from it. I think the pitching coaches these days are into a new idea and are throwing an older value out without thinking critically about it.

    Just my thoughts based on collective observations since the 1960s.

  62. Bowers is reminiscent of Romero with a lot of strikeouts and almost 6,.5 walks per nine innings at AAA. But it didn’t work out for him at Colorado last year, as his ERA was 13.5.

  63. # David Hissey singles on a line drive to right fielder Yeico Aponte. Luis Paulino scores

    Not to bad when the last player in the draft drives in the go ahead run in the 11th and scores some insurance/

  64. Sit Drabek. 140 innings after only 60 last year. That’s building endurance and sets him up to throw 170 next year, and 200 innings the year after that – his first full ML season.

    Back in the day Baseball was clearly the number one sport (bigger than NFL, NBA, NHL- maybe combined). Almost all of the top athletes wanted to play baseball. Now the top athletes play basketball, and football. There are so many other sports you can play and get well compensated for. The talent pool is smaller now. To quote DiamondDerby there was an overabundance of arms in previous era’s and you could let the cream rise to the top and let the rest blow out their arms. Now there aren’t as many studs because they’re off playing other sports…

  65. ****The talent pool is smaller now.****

    The counter argument to that is that Latin America and other countries contribute far more talent than they did back then and thus the talent pool is pretty much unchanged.

  66. There are some good baseball minds that felt Drabek was overpitched before the Phillies drafted him. Then he got hurt. Based on his injury history and his overuse early in his career, I say shut him down or at least limit his innings the rest of the way.

  67. What are your opinion on this subject , Do you think if Taylor finishes strong they consider him to replace Werth next year, or still offer arb to Werth? I think they will have some tough decision on Taylor for a replacement because if they feel he can do the job the money saved can go to trying to sign lee long term? Also if Myers comes back and closes strong will they offer him arb, or consider one of the prospects as a future closer like Swimmer or others?

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