Roster Shuffling

Pitcher Yohan Flande was called up to Reading, with Tyler Cloyd taking Flande’s spot in the Clearwater rotation after a promotion from Lakewood. 

With Justin DeFratus moving into the Lakewood rotation, reliever Jared Simon was sent from Clearwater to Lakewood to take DeFratus’s bullpen spot.

63 thoughts on “Roster Shuffling

  1. Nice to see DeFratus back in the rotation.

    Flande has been a huge surprise so far and it couldn’t have happened to a better kid. I’m rooting for his success at AA.

  2. Who is Flande taking a spot from in Reading. Or is someone getting promoted in Reading.

  3. Flande could be headed to the bullpen in Reading since that is probably his role if he were to ever make the big club, but with Carrasco and/or Carpenter either being called up or traded by Thursday I see a rotation spot opening up in AAA for Savery or Brummett.

    I wouldn’t move anyone else from AA up.

  4. My vote goes Savery. Barring some backlash from his outburst last week, I’d say he deserves it and he seems to have figured AAA out. I hope the Phillies continue to challenge him.

    Brummett wouldn’t be a bad choice either. I see Brummett as more of a middle reliever anyway.

  5. I would not count Flande out as a prospect. He is a 23 year old Lefty. They develop later than righties. Look at Happ.

  6. I expect Carpenter or Carrasco to get the call up this week and with Bastardo out for awhile, they’ll need another starter at AAA. I’m guessing they promote Savery after his win today takes his record to 10-1. The Reading Phils are up 12-0 in the 7th at the moment and Savery has only given up 2 hits and no runs meaning he’s only given up 1 run in 22 innings. (Yes, Taylor has 3 hits again.) I’d like to let Flande start in Reading and see how he does before we move him to the bullpen. I really want to see how deFratius does back in the rotation because he has really thrown the ball well this year from the pen.

  7. Many have asked:
    In other news, Clearwater starter Mike Cisco isn’t expected to miss any more time after taking a line drive off the knee Sunday off the bat of Greg Burns, the first batter he faced. Noworyta said taking Cisco out of the game at that point was merely precautionary. The Phils are saying that Brummett will go to the bullpen now.

  8. At what point does the scouting community at large start recognizing Taylor? Right now he still gets the “He has question marks”…etc. After two years of outright domination shouldn’t he be catapulting up the charts.

  9. I have officially run out of superlatives to describe Michael Taylor. He is now 4 for 5 today with two doubles.

    I find it hard to believe that he would not be a fine major leaguer right now, perhaps even a standout.

    Just amazing.

  10. It takes men whom have offered their expressed opinion and built consensus among the mass a good while to admit that they were in error. Baseball America recently acknowledged as much in their Hot Sheet report. Taylor has tremendous physical attributes, ever improving baseball skills and an intellect both on and off the field. He is legitimizing himself amid the early doubters and is someone to enjoy. He is good for this game.

  11. Savery still has trouble throwing strikes as evidenced by his 4 walks, he also struck out 2 batters in 6 innings of work. I can’t help it, but his peripherals keep making me think of Kyle Kendrick.

  12. I would not rush Savery at all. He’s shown good signs this year, but I don’t think he is “there” yet. Needs to work on his K/BB ratio.

  13. Because if they are truly trying to trade Taylor, they are going to continue to keep his value high by letting him put up video game numbers.

  14. Listened to the game today on the Yankees site and the announcers were extolling the play of Taylor to the highest level. In their minds he was the best player they have seen and named him player of the game and weekend. Hope he stays in a Phillies uniform.

  15. I still don’t think we’ve answered what happens to the AA roster when Flande moves up. Does someone get promoted to AAA? Phantom DL trip for someone? Any idea what’s actually happening?

    I personally would be surprised to see a AA starter get pushed to the AAA rotation while Carrasco is filling in at the MLB level. I doubt the Phils are calling up Carrasco for good, hence I don’t think they’ll promote Drabek or Savery for a few starts to AAA then send them back to AA. Perhaps Drabek gets called up to take Carrasco’s starts and then when Carrasco comes back, Drabek gets switched to the bullpen in AAA to limit his innings and see if he can be this year’s David Price?

  16. They would release guy like Rodrigo Lopez or Justin lehr if Carrasco came back down, or move Bastardo in one of those spots.

  17. “Group Think” – Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analzying and evaluating ideas. Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness… (wiki)

    See above as the reason scouts are slow to admit they were wr…wro… wron…. slightly off on their scouting reports. Consensus is reached on how good of a prospect a certain player is and no individual scout wants to take the risk and say, “Wow, I really like this guy a lot more than everybody else and I am willing to say it.” It works in the inverse when dealing with Yankee’s or Met’s prospects, in which a majority of the scouts assume greatness as a matter of course.

    I see no reason to trade Taylor, Brown or Drabek absent a true frontline starter coming back. Taylor has dominated at every level he has played since entering the minors and is a true 5 tool guy. The Phils draft these tool boxes in the hopes that one or two of them pan out. Now one is finally panning out and the Phils are going to unload him for a middle of the rotation guy… it makes no sense.

  18. I would move Savery to LHV. His K’s arent great, but he seems to be getting much better at getting GO’s, which as you know would be a big help at The Bank.

  19. “the Phils are going to unload him for a middle of the rotation guy… it makes no sense”

    I don’t think anyone here wants them to do that – even those of us who aren’t ready to anoint him the second coming of Babe Ruth, and/or immediately promote him to the majors. I also don’t think that the Phillies are going to trade him for a middle of the rotation guy. If they trade him, it will be for a #1 or #2.

  20. Actually – the Reading rotation question is answered since Brummett threw out of the pen today.


  21. Boston Phan – during the R-Phils game today, the radio guy mentioned numerous times that Brummett is moving to the bullpen. They moved up Savery’s start to fill the hole in the meantime (since his start was blown by rain on Friday night anyways).

    I would guess Flande gets stuck in the rotation during this next homestand, and maybe somebody from Reading’s bullpen gets the axe or sent down to Clearwater. I really haven’t thought that far ahead, but Brummett’s move to the bullpen opens a spot for Flande in the rotation.

  22. Let me be clear on my personal preferences here. I don’t want them unloading Michael Taylor at all. Last year the Phils unloaded some good, but not great, prospects for a legit. # 3 (Blanton). It worked. They should do the same type of thing this year. I could live without a lot of the nice, but not great, minor leaguers they have, but Michael Taylor could easily become the next truly great Philly. It’s a terrible business model to move this type of player for a short-term gain. If you think it’s a good idea, just ask yourself whether the Red Sox ever move their very best prospects for a veteran. Good prospects, yes. Their best prospects? No – they’re not that stuipid and the Phillies shouldn’t be either. They need to hold onto Taylor, and Brown and Drabek for dear life and probably also Knapp (that kid is going to be very scary, very soon). If they can get a healthy #2 or fine #3 for Carrasco and/or Marson, so be it.

  23. That would be truly great “Phillie” – hard to type when I’m focusing on work.

  24. Speaking of business models . . . .

    How smart do the Red Sox look now for loading up on bargain-basement veteran pitchers in the off-season? They didn’t have to pay FA compensation, they didn’t have to sign those players to above-market or long-term contracts and now they have: (a) insurance in the rotation; and (b) cheap trade fodder for talented young players. Damn, that Theo Epstein is smart.

  25. yea im really starting to hope they hold on to taylor especially since there wont be many good pitchers on the market with bedard and peavy getting injured

  26. If the Phillies get a good pitcher for Taylor then awesome. What I don’t want is one of these “Trades for the sakes of a Trade” moves and losing him.

  27. The Red Sox did trade top talent in the minors for a front of the rotation talent…Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett…Unless the Phillies are going to get a stud pitcher in his early 20’s(Matt Cain comes to mind and his numbers suffer because of his team) or Felix Hernandez(which I would give Taylor and Marson and Carrasco for) I would not make a move. Taylor is a stud, watched him all weekend in Trenton from behind home plate, do not move him unless an absolute star is coming to the mound in Philly.

  28. Cain is a perfect example of what I would want for a Package including Taylor at this point. I know that’s a little unrealistic, but the guy is Second in triples, third in Homeruns, in the top ten in steals and after today, has the highest BA I believe.

  29. Don’t forget that he’s leading the slugging category as well!

    Seriously, what does this guy have to do to make the scouts love him? He’s supposed to fail at every promotion, and he has yet to falter (knock on wood).

  30. tomphilly:

    Well, I was talking about a trade for an established veteran. I don’t mind trading young talent for young talent. That having been said, I really do not relish any trade of Taylor. He’s about as close to a perfect prospect as I can remember this team having over the last several decades. Utley has become a magnificent player, but he never performed like this. Howard had better pure numbers but he didn’t have a rocket arm and run like a gazelle. Taylor’s a special player and the Stanford degree and the overall maturity doesn’t hurt the package any.

  31. To clarify, I am curious what happens to the roster, not the rotation. Someone could get moved down to Clearwater, but then Clearwater would have to have another transaction to make room on its roster. The point being you can’t just add Flande to Reading. Someone else needs to move off of the roster at Reading.

    I suspect a reliever gets promoted to AAA, but I think my Drabek scenario is much more intriguing. By the way, I did not come up with the “this year’s David Price” comparison for Drabek. That came someone in from the media, who said the Phils were pondering such a thing. Hence I would never say never to Drabek moving to the bullpen at the end of the year. At the very least I think it is a good way to limit his innings this year.

  32. The Phillies will resist moving Drabek up because of his clock starting early…if they bring him up in September it does not affect the start time I believe…Andrew Carpenter was already brought up once before so he is the most likely short term candidate based on how the phillies normally do things.
    I hope the Phillies hang on to Taylor as well, in fact I would be more in favor of moving Mayberry or Ibanez to make room for him next year because Werth, Vic, and Taylor defensively would help the rotation more. If a trade is made, it better be for comparable age and skill set, not a questionable prospect or veteran with noticeable holes in his game. The Major League Rotation is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be: Hamels, Blanton, & Happ are fine in their roles; Carpenter/Carrasco fill in Bastardo’s position in the rotation…Moyer is the weakest link and is the spot we should be looking to replace…Why not sign Pedro Martinez as a stop gap until our minor leaguers are a little more seasoned next year…If we do not repeat this year it is ok, but if we mortgage our future in an attempt, we will be left with 1984-1992 & 1994-2002…and I cannot go back to those types of teams again. A 2010 rotation of Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Drabek, and Carpenter/Carrasco looks good in front of Ruiz/Marson, Howard, Utley, Rollins/Donald, Feliz, Werth, Vic, Ibanez/Taylor.

  33. (here’s hoping this doesn’t get triple posted now…the server must hate me)
    Boston Phan – Considering Clearwater lost 1 (net) pitcher in the shuffling, and Reading gained one (while Lakewood evened out by gaining one and losing one), I’d say its more likely a reliever gets sent down to Clearwater to take Simon’s place. Just as Simon was sent to Lakewood to take De Fratus’ BP place.

    Unless something has also changed on the AAA roster recently, I don’t see the need for a move there. Just a little jumbling from lowA to AA.

  34. Bringing up Drabek would start his service time clock. They would not have to use 1 of his 3 options if they did not send him back down. The ideal way to optimize his value re arbitration would be to not bring him up till June of next year. Otherwise, if we thought he might make the team on Opening Day next year it would not matter if he was brought up in August or September.

    I am 50-50 on bringing Drabek up in the bullpen this year. He might be an intriguing 2-inning pitcher. It would also serve as a way to limit his total innings to 150 or so. As long as he is used properly, he can be a weapon in a long relief role. I don’t buy the argument that bullpen use would create an injury risk. With proper handling it should not. Starting is more dangerous, especially if he was pushing 170-180 innings total in September.

  35. Dan Says:

    I would not count Flande out as a prospect. He is a 23 year old Lefty. They develop later than righties. Look at Happ.
    Dan Its my opinion Happ was ready two years ago. He as been hiding in plain sight.

    Oh hell not the arb clock again. I like the World Series clock.
    Someone on this site reputed this kind of thinking very well.
    I can’t remember who. Kansas City thinking.

    I like Boston’s plan for Drabek but please baseball not
    finance besides a star player will earn more for the club
    in fannys and shirts over the years then they might save.
    Trading for high price talent is also costly

  36. this was on the phillies website today in regards to pitching call ups…Drabek is in the minors for the foreseeable future:

    The Phillies are trying to find a fit for Thursday’s game in Atlanta. Left-hander Antonio Bastardo is out with a strained left shoulder. Right-handers Carlos Carrasco, Kyle Kendrick, Andrew Carpenter and Rodrigo Lopez are under consideration, although signs point to Carrasco making his Major League debut.

    Double-A Reading right-hander Kyle Drabek is not an option.

    “He’s got great stuff,” Amaro said of Drabek. “He’s going to be a quality Major League pitcher, if he stays healthy. But we do not believe he is ready to pitch in the big leagues at this time. He needs more Minor League experience. I would not count on him for the 2009 season. He’s not somebody we would actively move to the big leagues because he needs time to pitch in the Minor Leagues and he’s coming off [Tommy John] surgery. Now, there are circumstances that may change that, but right now we’re fully committed to having him pitch in the Minor Leagues in 2009.”

    So Drabek is out and Carrasco looks to be in, until the Phillies find a pitcher from the outside.

    If they can find a pitcher from the outside.

    “If a team doesn’t want to trade a pitcher, there’s nothing you can do to get him,” Amaro said. “There are teams we already have had discussions with where I have talked about a multitude of prospects and a pitcher was not going to be moved. If the guy is not going to go, he’s not going to go. You can give them your entire club.”

  37. I think they’re better off leaving Drabek in the minors for this year. The kid’s only 21 and this is the first season he’s truly dominated. Not to mention he’s coming off a major injury. The Phils would be wise to shut him down at the 150IP mark (only 8-10 more starts anyway) and target a June 2010 callup. 150IPs is still 120 more than he threw last year.

    As for this year’s problem of the rotation, I’m assuming that the phils are looking to replace moyer. Instead of trading Taylor (which would be stupid), why not trade Werth or Victorino and bring Taylor up?

  38. Because you weaken your team. And it’s not Moyer. Jaime isn’t going anywhere. Reading some of these posts, I can see there’s going to be an explosion in here if and when Ruben makes a deal. It’s simply the nature of the marketplace. I think a lot of this decision to trade or not trade depends on what Rollins and Lidge do over the next couple weeks. If both look like their past all-star versions, then Amaro has little choice but to overpay dearly for a SP. That means Marson, Taylor and/or Carrasco for the likes of Meche or Marquis.

    He has to do it. You don’t get many opportunities with the best SS, 2B and 1B in franchise history in their primes. Amaro cannot waste a season, and that opportunity, just because a couple kids are tearing up AA ball. I would hate to lose them as much as anybody, but it’s probably going to happen.

  39. Pretty good debut for Cloyd so far.

    Hewitt is having a good night. He just hit a triple(was really a double but he busted out of the box and was able to just get in to third for a triple). That knocked in the tying run to boot.

    He went 1 for 2 in the first game with a walk.

  40. speaking of roster shuffling when are they moving Taylor up. He’s on FIRE and he’s over a 1.000 OPS now and slugging .600 What does he have to do for a promotion already???

    Could he be the Phils RH bat off the bench come September they’ve been looking for??

  41. amaro is right leave drabek in aa. but in way as ive been saying all year,DONT TRADE TAYLOR. this team like it or not has to hit its way to the series. with hamels,blanton,happ, yes moyer, we need one pitcher. its not worth trading one of our 2 imo untouchables. taylor and drabek. if you cant get a meche for a carrasco and marson somethings wrong with your negotiating. theres absolutely no need to trade taylor even for a lee. btw trading werth or victorino now would destroy their chemistry. is anybody telling me that a combination of carrasco marson, donald, brown could not get an ace?

  42. I get the feeling that Taylor is in Reading until the trade deadline. Why promote a guy when you may jettison him a month later? If Taylor is still in the organization on August 1st, he goes to Lehigh Valley.

    Unrelated to the Phils, but I went to the Trenton/Reading game and then the Scranton/Rochester doubleheader. The Yankees brought up Richie Robnett to replace an injured player, so I ended up seeing him play for two teams on the same day. An unusual sight to say the least.

  43. Jake, you speak too much sense for this board. No matter what move Amaro makes, he will get blasted on this board, because a lot of people don’t realize the goal of prospects is to make the major league team better.

  44. And wouldn’t someone who’s hitting .350, slugging .600, and has an OPS over 1.000 make the major league team better? Especially when the team is loaded with lefties?

    The payroll has gotten pretty out of hand as of late, its not sustainable. I’d like to be able to emerge from the wreckage of an overloaded team with some promising young blood.

  45. I would be okay with trading Marson, Carrasco, plus a low level guy like De Fratus for Meche or Marquis. You throw Taylor into the Marson, Carrasco discussion you better be getting an ace back.

  46. since besides hamels we actually dont have a real ace i would be more than satisfied with a pitcher comparerable to blanto. i.e. meche. and since i believe we will hit ourselves to a ws. and we have , imo, 8 possile future mlb,ers in the minors i dont believe trading taylor is in any scenerio necessary, since the only pitchers worth taylor are untouchable. i.e. carrasco,marson,donald,savery,worley,carpenter. pick two. for lee pick 3 or 4 if necessary.

  47. Yeah, a 2 out Grand Slam, as well. And, so far, his .200 Batting Average is one of the higher ones on that team.

    Reading—looks to me like they have 12 pitchers on the roster, which is the standard number. So they don’t need a move. As has been said a couple of times above, Brummett pitched in relief yesterday, so that should answer the rotation question.

  48. Upon further review,, I see Reading has 13 pitchers, but Clearwater has 12, and I think they all should stick, so , I say, Samuel Walls could be released.

  49. So… is Brummett the Outman of 2009? Make him a reliever… include him in a deal and watch him grow in another organization? I like it, if it brings us a player who can help the big club now. I think he has talent but maybe there are too many pitchers ahead of him on the prospect list. Everyone’s trying to fit Carrasco, Carpenter and Bastardo into the short-term plans.

    We have to start thinking about a future SS too. I’d like to see Donald and Galvis back in the lineup. If they aren’t the answer, then the time will come when we’ll need a replacement for J-Roll.

  50. Outman was always a prospect. I’ve never seen an outside publication tout Brummett. I’ve seen him pitch three times at least, and I see absolutely nothing about him that portends future MLB success. Maybe unduly harsh, but he’s little more than organizational filler.

  51. Ryan H, my bad. I clearly need to work on my reading comprehension. So who’s moving to Clearwater from Reading?

  52. Agree with those who say Taylor, Brown and Drabek are untouchable, unless we get a #1 on a multiple year contract. I would give up anyone else for a solid #2/#3, including Flande, who will be in Futures game. But Marson and Carrasco, even Donal, better bring back good quality. I have not jumped off the Donald wagon, btw. A guy who plays as well as he has through AA, Olympics and AFL is going to rebound big time, IMO. Injuries and being sent down may be the factors, and he has stated he will focus on overcoming these.

  53. dd , i agree 100%. although for the right guy i would trade brown. so maybe it,s 99%. and as ive said 1 million times i have nothing against brown, but between him and taylor i,ll take taylor.

  54. I’d really really like to post a poll on this site, if you were going to trade either Brown or Taylor for a #1/2 which would you prefer to keep? Everyone get their votes in.

    My Vote: Keep Taylor

  55. Just wanted to add for those who said the redsox never trade top prospects they traded Hanley Ramirez for Josh Beckett and while Beckett has been great for them if they could go back they would never do that trade again especially when you consider the shortsstops they have had compared to the surplus of shortstops

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