Daily Discussion

–Excellent outing today from Joe Savery in Reading, earning his eighth win of the still young season, while throwing six shutout innings, giving up just one hit.

Jeremy Slayden has 7 RBI’s in his first 9 at bats, since being sent down from Lehigh Valley to Reading.

–The Magic Number for Lakewood for their first half championship is currently at seven.  Trevor May is making  his season debut in Game Two of the Blue Claws doubleheader tonight. May was the Phils 4th round pick in the 2008 draft out of Kelso High School in Washington, and received a $375,000 signing bonus last season.

52 thoughts on “Daily Discussion

  1. Ok…Hate to do this…When does Savery become a prospect again? Haha. It seems like he reinvented himself over the last season or so.

  2. Flande on the BP hotsheet

    “Yohan Flande, LHP, Phillies (High-A Clearwater)
    A 23-year-old Dominican who pitched in the Gulf Coast League last year, Flande is not a guy with a lot of hype behind him, but he’s been nothing short of outstanding this year, firing a six-hit shutout on Sunday to lower his ERA to 2.45 over 12 starts. He’s not a massive prospect, but a quick check with a scout shows that there’s definitely something there, as his fringe/average fastball plays up due to location and movement, while his changeup is truly a plus offering. He’s probably a reliever in the end, but after coming into the year without even being on anyone’s radar, that’s a massive upgrade.”

  3. I just hope the Phillies continue their trend of spending $$ to buy out scholarships and get good high school athletes, as opposed to easy-sign college kids with marginal room for improvement

  4. You can hit on either type: Taylor, Stutes and Worley just to name a few from last draft.

  5. Trevor May set a record three strikeouts in the first inning. Now that is making a splash.

  6. does anyone know why Savery is pitching better? I heard earlier in the year that his fastball wasn’t good enough to play his offspeed off of and he just threw mostly off-speed pitchers and used a lot of smoke and mirrors.

    Has this changed?

  7. Ugh. Haha. I meant Taylor as a college player, but that was written terrible up there. Oh well.

  8. Following Savery’s pro career has ben frought with the yo-yos of expectations not met, except…once in a while.

    His recovery from arm surgery not only delayed his minor lg career at first including the regaining of arm strength (fb), off-speed pitches, and command.

    From the decreasong number of hits per inning, I SUSPECT that his stuff is good enough to have hitters hit the ball, but poorly.

    Maybe by the end of this season he can add another 2-3 MPH on his fb…AND more Ks with less walks. That could lerad to envisioning him at #3 in the rotation to come.

  9. lets not give up on Savery yet. He might be a late bloomer.

    WHy is Gose so much better against lefties? It doesnt make sense.

  10. May’s batter by batter recap is straight out of little league right now. He is alternating strike outs and walks while peppering in the occasional wild pitch/hit batsman.

    How does Trevor May rank on the cool name scale? It’s obviously behind a name like Chance Chapman, but its not too bad

  11. Savery’s average against is down for the year and only around
    .210 for the month way under last year at this time.

  12. baseball being the ever evolving game it is humbles us all. 2 weeks ago i wouldnt have given bastardo any shot of being in the pen. his start friday wasnt representative of his control but perhaps he does belong in the pen. one thing about the red sox series it showed the weakness of our pen. carrasco and bastardo would imo rectify that. now savery who 1 month ago i wouldnt have given a shot to ever pitch in the bigs is looking very good. worley,savery,drabek,knapp,cloyd if one of these guys is an ace well be lucky. if taylor is near dave parker well be lucky. one thing is clear we need another ace pitcher and a deep pen that can go 4 innings a night.

  13. I am concerned about the big league bullpen but I am more concerned about the starters. I am not giving up on Bastardo as a starter – I definitely think he can start. His stamina/velocity is fine into the mid-late innings. He has good breaking pitches, but just needs more time to refine his command. But if he ended up being a good set-up guy (ultimately, for Madson), I would be fine with that too, I just think his greatest potential value is in the rotation.

    Savery is also interesting, I’d be fine including him in a trade. He has some value now and they need a starter. But I doubt he’ll ever be more than a middle/back of the rotation guy, so, if we get a good starter for him (and probably someone else – Donald or Marson are the most likely targets), I could live with that although, frankly, I’d like the team to stay away from the “let’s trade our prospects in mid-July every year so we have a chance to compete mode” – sooner or later it is really going to catch up with them (in fact, with Josh Outman, Matt Maloney, and others now entering the big leagues, it may have already caught up to them in a sense). The Red Sox plan around this at the beginning of the season (do you think it’s an accident they have too many starting pitchers? Trust me, it’s not an accident – nothing Theo Epstein does is accidental) so they are never in that mode and that strategy (developing and keeping prospects rather than dealing them for less than fair value) has allowed the team to consistently remain among the best in baseball.

  14. Catch 22, I will quibble a little bit in that the Red Sox definitely plan on trading prospects at the deadline to improve the team for a playoff push. They did it last year for Jason Bay (traded Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss) and the year before for Eric Gagne (traded David Murphy, Kason Gabbard, and Elvis Andrus).

  15. @Catch 22 f/k/a/H Man

    I understand what you’re saying, but the goal is to win the World Series, and as currently constituted, the big club can’t do that without another pitcher. I know we all get to know these guys and hope to see them in a Phillies uniform, but the point of the minor league system is to support the big club. If that happens through trades, so be it. I don’t really think you can say that it is “catching up with us” though. If we don’t get Blanton, we don’t win the WS. End of story. To me, no matter how good Outman ends up being it was worth it to see that parade. If trading Taylor or somebody of his ilk earns us another one, then I’m fine with it. For years, the fans killed the Phillies for not trying to win. Now they are trying and I absolutely love it.

  16. i read the Daily News’ article on savery today and it pretty much validated what i have been saying for 2 years now. this quote about says it all, and remember, schrenk is usually a very positive guy:

    “He’s lefthanded, so there’s a plus,” said Reading pitching coach Steve Schrenk. “If he was righthanded, I definitely say he’d be a bullpen guy. He’s lefthanded, so I see him starting. The way he’s throwing right now, maybe a back-end guy.”

    that is what i have been saying all along about savery. not that he is bad. just that your expectations are way too high. he doesn’t have the stuff nor the command to suggest anything more than a fringe starter or reliever in the bigs. some times i think the people on this blog forget how hard it is to succeed in the major leagues. how big of a jump it is. you have to dominate in the minors, and evne then it is tough. don’t believe me, take a look at this former first round pick’s AA stats at the age of 21/22

    22 starts, 2.82 ERA, 8.4 k/9, 3 walks/9, 1.14 whip

    pretty good for a 21/22 year old, right?

    that was adam eaton.

    however, the thing that concerns me more than his stuff is his makeup. this quotes in particular:

    “At the end of last year, to be honest, I was throwing 84 to 86 mph,” Savery said. “The way my arm felt – it’s not that you think it’s over, but in the back of your mind, you’re thinking, ‘I’ve had a surgery. Maybe my arm’s just not cut out for this. Maybe this is as good as it gets.’ ”

    winners don’t think that way. high makeup guys don’t think that way. every challenge can be overcome is the way to think. you got to be a fighter. a battler.

  17. Good points on the Sox and the Blanton trade. Let me be clear that the Blanton trade was worth it – we won the WS and we probably don’t get there and get through it without Blanton. That having been said, the goal is not to constantly deplete your farm systems with deadline deals because, as a general rule, you get less value than you give in those deals.

    As for the Bay trade, I view that to be a closer call because, in Bay, you got a young guy who will be with that team for years. The Gagne deal was a prototypical veteran for prospects deal, although, somehow, the Sox seem to be good at trading the right propsects so that guys like Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Papelbon are the guys who are retained and not those who are dealt. This is why I would feel a lot different about a trade that included, say, Carrasco or Savery, than I would a trade that included Taylor, Brown, Knapp (yes, Knapp – the upside is positively huge) or Drabek. But, hey, these are the tough decisions Amaro has to make. If they win another WS (or even get close), it will probably be worth it. If they fail, we’ll all be licking our wounds. Tough business, baseball.

  18. PP Fan – to be fair to Savery, you have to read the quote you provided in the context of the entire article. The article goes on to say that, after feeling that way, he redoubled his efforts and worked hard this year to improve his strength, conditioning and lose weight. It went on to say that his FB is now in the 87-91 MPH range – which is perfectly respectable for a lefthanded pitcher.

    I didn’t get the feeling from the article that he was a quitter or didn’t care. I think he was understandably dejected, when, a year from being a first round pick, he was struggling in A ball and throwing 84-86 MPH and wondering if he could ever do it. I think any normal person, even a highly motivated one, would feel that way.

  19. Jak Any good pitcher would of done the job last year. Having said that Blanton has done better than I expected (probably
    because he pitched himself into shape).
    The point is anytime the A’s are interested in a player my ears would go up. Money with lesser players would of gotten Blanton. The A’s are cash strapped.

  20. I can’t believe how well cardenas is doing in the texas league, he went to triple a and sent back and every night two or three hits. and spencer is at 290, is billy beane that good at knowing talent?

  21. Some teams you check off your trading list or put on your best glasses at least especially th A’s and Minnesota,the old Braves etc. Boston is smart but they have so much talent they cant help but do you good.

  22. the phils should go beyond slot to sign this kid colvin. if hes as good as what i read it is imperative to replenish the system with quality. especially with the new goal of repeating or winning every year. it is vitally important to replenish the system. all you have to do is look at the mets. they are stuck no prospects, no number 1 draft picks they cannot deal for anyone. we must replenish the system each year to be able to deal for that number 1 starter. im sure this is no big revelation but ais we have the prospects at higher levels to make 2 big deals. but our lower level guys and this years picks have to produce so we are not left barren. at 23 i,d like to see flande at reading. i,d like to see cloyd and knapp at clearwater along with murphy. i see moyer with 1 more year who will replace him, worley,drabek? is taylor as good as werth, dont laugh, maybe not. its an incredibally tough choice who to deal for a starter.

  23. @nowheels please

    I get what you’re saying, but you have to remember the climate at the deadline last year. It’s not like there were a ton of pitchers available. Maybe we overpaid slightly, but it won us a World Series. Also, I beginning to wonder if the luster shouldn’t be wearing off of Billy Beane just a little bit, don’t you think?

    It seems as though he always has a farm system full of mega prospects who turn out to be marginal players. He’s had great success with young pitchers, but hitters? How many position players has he developed in the last 5 years?

  24. something fans seem to overlook, especially mets fans who now complain about not getting ibanez. the phils are always going to have a leg up when dealing with seattle or houston. i have a feeling oswalt will be a philly, although haren would be my 1st choice. nice staff. hamels, oswalt, happ, blanton and moyer. bp lidge,madson,carrasco,bastardo,romero,eyre,condrey,durbin and park. of course 1 guy doesnt make it. goodbye to bako. BUT ITS TIME TO MOVE CARRASCO TO THE PEN.

  25. PPfan —
    The problems with comparisons to a guy like Eaton is that this suggests that a minor league record like that yields nothing other than the Eaton we see today. But, before he hurt his arm, there was nothing at all wrong with Eaton. There is a huge difference between projecting to a fringe major leaguer because that’s all your talent equates to and becoming a fringe major leaguer because of injury.

  26. On Oswalt . . . I welcome any chance the Phillies might have to fleece Ed Wade. It’s so nice to be on the opposite side of that equation.

    On Carrasco, I question whether he is ready to be a major league player at any level. He is known to be easily flustered. While this may change over time, he’s hardly the guy that, right now, I’d like to throw into a pressure-packed pennant race in Philadelphia.

  27. catch as i recall he seems to pitch really well early and blows up around the 4th or 5th. as far as his mental make-up i think now rather later would be the time to try. for 1 inning he can get it up there at 96-97.

  28. Doesn’t matter how hard he throws if he can’t control his emotions. Not sure how sticking him in a pressure situation like a pennant race in the ML is better than having him throw innings at AAA.

    I just don’t get this constant desire to push a minor-leaguer-of-the-month club. Guys like Carrasco, Knapp, Worley, Drabek, etc. are where they belong based on their performance, age, experience, abilities, etc.

    Trying to argue that “they can’t be worse than ___” is absolutely false as has been proven by Kendrick and Escolona.

    I suspect that Bastardo will also soon be returning to the minors since it is obvious that he is a 1-pitch pitcher right now. It doesn’t take long for major league hitters to figure that out.

  29. There is NO WAY, in my opinion, that the Phils would try Carrasco as a back of the bullpen guy at this stage for a number of very good reasons, most specifically that throughout his minor league career, the opposition hits about .325 against him with RISP.

  30. as far as carrasco gregg i never said hes an end of the pen man, please read the post. i checked his splits and his best inning is the 1st. instead of continuing to let him fail as a starter my point is no harm can come from at least TRYING him as a 6th or 7th inning specialist. he,ll get the ball up at 96-97 and just maybe he,ll succeed. insanity is trying the same thing over and over with the same results. theres no harm in trying. the phils pitch count of the starters is ridiculous, so were going to need our pen to go 3-4 innings, which means new guys are going to be needed. lidge coming back will help but i fear condrey,s romero,s and durbin,s walk ratio can kill us. if we dont get that ace starter were in big trouble since bastardo will not be able to move to the pen. there we would have another 1 inning specialist who will bring it at 95-96. one more thing neither bastardo or carrasco walk hitters which is a sure killer. btw since brunlett or cairo can be brought up or sent down with ease it makes much more sense to have mayberry as our righthanded bat.

  31. John he is not failing as a starter right now though. He is still rught around 9 K/9, with very solid control. 3.68 FIP, so it’s safe to say he’s pitched into a bit of bad luck

    Also remember he’s still quite young for AAA. There is no rush at all to move roles for strictly for his sake in my opinion…..maybe if the big club feels they desperately need pen help, but that still seems like a long shot

    I still think Carrasco has a solid shot to crack the rotation for 2010

  32. Plus someone who struggles with men on base really limits his usage in the pen. If he’s not a back-end guy, not a long relief guy, and not a guy to bring with men on base then he’s really limited and a wasted roster spot.

    Only way we see him as a reliever is in September.

  33. I think Carrasco’s pitched well this year. His K rates are higher than AA last year and his BB rate is down as well. He’s also giving up less homeruns, has a lower FIP, and a fairly high .355 BABIP against him. I still see a solid 3 or 4 with electric stuff.

  34. I found this to be hilarious. From Bill Conlin this morning.

    * Joe Morgan (1983). The Wheeze Kid and Hall of Famer ranks with tennis genius John McEnroe as the best sports analysts going, despite misspeaks and blown facts that have earned him the ultimate tribute to fame, a blog site called “Fire Joe Morgan.” Two Emmys . . . The current ESPN A-team analyst called both Giants and A’s games before his long network career.

    Best analyst going???

  35. Conlin is overly glowing on McCarver too—–Morgan and McCarver are impossible for me to listen to.

  36. Regarding Carrasco I’m starting to think AAA is the best place for him and his struggles is the best thing that could happen. When you look at his FIP and BABIP against it shows some bad luck, if you believe in such things, which should force him to mature as a pitcher. AAA is the best place for him to do this. As many noted, he is still a little young for AAA so let’s let him catch up a little and hopefully refine and mature. The ‘stuff’ is there. I think he can be a 2/3 guy rather then a 3/4 but he isn’t going to reach that by going right into the majors.

  37. actually i agree with all of the above points about carrasco being much better than his record indicates. but as i said before at least according to what i read is that when he hits the 5th or 6th he blows up. i have no idea why. i love his k to bb ratio 3.6 – 1. but thats exactly why i would TRY him in the pen. it doesnt seem like he can get past 5 innings. i checked his inning by inning stats and each inning seems to decline. obviously i could be wrong but i,d love to see him get a shot. imo it looks like drabek and worley are our next real shots, as starters. and as far as bill conlin his prose not his bb acumen or personality have kept him around.1980 he had a hateful crusade against lonnie smith.

  38. I found this interesting. Rice and stanford both have rep, one for the hitting technique and the other for getting pitchers hurt. I just read rice has had 8 pitchers taken in either the first or supplemental round and 6 have had arm problems.

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