Phillies trade Costanzo/Bourn

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Wow. The Phillies traded Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary and Mike Costanzo for Brad Lidge and Eric Bruntlett. Gotta say, I didn’t see that coming. Bourn is the classic case of “can he play every day”, Geary is a fungible middle reliever, and we’ve debated the merits of Costanzo for a while now. I’m not a big believer in Costanzo being an above average regular at the major league level, Bourn I’m a bit more optimistic on. This is clearly a pretty big gamble, but it will allow us to move Myers back to the rotation. Bruntlett is basically a throw in, a slightly more offensively inclined Abe Nunez who can play all of the INF positions.

Again, wow.

49 thoughts on “Phillies trade Costanzo/Bourn”

  1. Who cares what you think….You’re an idiot anyway….Bourne and Costanzo will be good Major league players….I hope Costanzo is the next Ryne Sandberg for Houston

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  2. Wow is right. My first thought was joy and relief since Brett Myers will move into the rotation. Second thought is that Bourn is going to be a very good starting outfielder. I see 50+ steals, good plate discipline and tremendous defense. Geary competes well enough but the results were inconsistent. Costanzo, well, he’s throw-in, the real value for Houston will be in Bourn. Lidge will do just fine as a closer, but this can almost be looked at as a trade for Brett Myers.

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  3. does this mean that somone thinks that by mid-season they think Golson can do Bourn’s job of defensive replacement/pinch-runner for Burrell? and that made Bourn more moveable not the fact that they will bring Rowand back?

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  5. I have used this alias for quite some time now, and unfortunately it looks as if I will have to change it. I’m a huge michael bourn supporter, and see him as the second coming of kenny lofton, with possibly some more pop. It pains me to see such a talent leave. Does an outfield of Werth, Victorino, and Burrell make anyone else feel a little queasy? Werth’s run in mid-season last year was a fluke, and he fell back down to earth the last month and in the Rockies series. I hope this is the first step in acquiring a 3rd baseman, and getting rid of some of the old guys occupying a lot of the club’s money. Are we just gonna pray that Travis Mattair comes on quickly? Or a possible shift of Cardenas or Donald to 3rd? I know much was said about the lack of arm strength of Adrian for a 3rd baseman, but could he be much worse than Dobbs and Helms defensively? Tell me we have a plan in getting the pharm system a 3rd baseman to groom for the future. Overall, I think this is a bad trade and another barrier in stopping the young guys from getting a shot until they’re 25 or 26.

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  6. I, too, am sad to see Bourn traded. I like his energy and excitement. Geary is serviceable, at best, and Costanzo, well, I don’t think he’ll ever amount to much.

    Hard to argue with the trade, though: a speed/defense guy for a good closer (with impressive k-rate), and a needed utility IF.

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  7. Hmmmm…assuming that neither Costanzo nor Bourn amount to much and Lidge stays healthy and closes out games during his one year in Philly, then it’s a good deal. I liked Myers as the closer, so I damn sure hope he’s effective again as a starter.

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  8. I’m a bit concerned too. Lidge wasn’t all that great last year, but Costanzo isn’t a sure thing, Geary is at best an average reliever, and Bourn is a fourth outfielder. This winner of this trade will basically hinge on whether Costanzo is a bust or not – I have bust predictions. Given how much he has talked about being a Phillies fan, he may mope a bit and start the season even slower than usual.

    Of course, if Lidge regains his mojo, then this trade works out real well for the Phils. I bet they have something else in the pipeline though – the Dobbs/Helms combo at third isn’t going to cut it, Mattair is about 4 years away (if he’s the answer at third) and Donald or Harman aren’t even playing the position yet.

    – Jeff

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  10. Lidge on Comcast said ”

    “I needed a change of scenery ”

    “Ready to show I still Am a great closer in this league. “

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  11. That guy Joe is such a fool. Costanzo as the next Ryne Sandberg! HA! And why the hell are you reading the guy’s blog, Joe (you moron), if you don’t care what he thinks?

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  12. Great move by Phils! Medium risk/ High reward trade. Geary and Bruntlett are throw-ins. Costanzo, still has potential, but had he made it to the big show, having him and Howard both strike out 170+ times a year would be sure to kill plenty of rallies. Bourn is a bit of a loss. He has plenty of upside, and will be missed as a pinch runner/ defensive replacement late in games. But Bourn still looks a bit like a fringe 4th outfielder. If Lidge can come in and give us close to what Myers did last year, and Myers can regain some of his control and form as a starter it will work out great for us. Don’t forget Myers was our ace before Hamels took over. So finally having a solid #2 in our rotation coupled with a closer who should be decent with a chance to be outstanding, make this a trade worth making. Where else would we get a solid #2 starter and a good closer in this market?

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  13. Joe, do us all a favor and stop posting if you’re going to be so damned nasty to our host. The job that is done on this website is a huge public service and, besides that, his analysis is pretty impressive. And by the way, when it comes to analyzing players, you clearly have no freaking idea of what you are talking about.

    As for the deal, I just love it. Geary is cannon fodder. Bourn is going to be a nice player, but, IMO there’s only room for one speedy, basestealing outfielder on a team like the Phillies and the Phils already have that guy – his name is Shane Victorino. No one who is rational would want to see an outfield with Victorino and Bourn – the loss of power is too dramatic. Finally, Costanzo is a bit of a loss, but he does not appear to be a great fielder and strikes out a ton. There are already enough strikeouts to go around in the Phils line-up thank you. I am sad to see him go, but I do see the Phils loading up at third in the near future – we might even see Harman get some time there.

    As for the upside, Lidge can still bring it and certainly would be ranked equal to or better than Myers as a closer. And, of course, the cherry on the pie is that we now have a truly bona fide number 2 starter back in the rotation. I hope the Phils now take the extra step and sign Romero and either bring back Rowand or sign Kuroda from Japan. They’re on their way, but work remains to be done.

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  14. The more I think about the trade, the more I think if I were an Astros fan, I’d be mad at Ed Wade. Everyone is so desperate for pitching. If I were the GM of the Astros, if someone wanted a potentially top flight closer I would want really premium prospects in return. Ed didn’t get that. Ed didn’t understand his market leverage. Ed got schooled again. I’m glad Ed doesn’t work for our team anymore.

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  15. Every trade involves risk. I really like Bourn as well–he was one of those guys I followed through the system and always rooted for–and there’s a chance he turns into a Brett Butler type star leadoff hitter and defender. I hope he does. But Costanzo just seems like he has so much work to do before becoming even serviceable in the majors, and Geary is a back of the bullpen arm who was about to become too expensive for his value.

    In terms of the guys we got, Lidge is a stud with the classic closer arsenal, and the one-year commitment is fine by me–we either extend him or get picks, depending in part on how well other arms progress.

    Very strong move. Now it’s time to go get one more bat, ideally a third baseman. Tejada would be my preference.

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  16. I don’t know if I like this trade. Lidge goes along with Gillick’s philosophy of picking up players who were awesome three years ago. Thats as much of a crap-shoot as hoping prospects develop. And as for the infielder, we could have just resigned Nunez for practically nothing… at least we would know for sure what we’re getting.

    Not to mention, it might have opened up Myers to be in the rotation (Where he was only marginally effective last year anyway), but it tied the teams hands in almost every other aspect. Its going to force us to resign Rowand, and probably for more because our need for him rose dramatically. There goes all of our salary room.

    Not to mention we threw all of our trading chips out for a closer before we could even make an offer on Rivera. There are several PHENOMENAL pitchers on the trade market (Santana, Kazmir, Willis)….. if we were going to unload we could have just upped it and gotten better value… I wouldn’t have been opposed to throwing in Zagurski and Cardenas or Carasco if I knew every 5 days I would get to watch Santana tear the NL to pieces.

    And we can fantasize about the starting rotation all we want, but we still just have a #1, #2, and three #5’s. (and thats if Myers pulls it together after being bounced around, and hopefully keeps his hands to himself)

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  17. Lidge really isn’t all that good. He converted only 19 of 27 save opportunities last season. His ERA also was not good.

    Costanzo is not Ryne Sandberg, but at the end of his Reading season, he looked like he was going to make it as an average major league 3B and could start the 2009 season in Philly. I really don’t know quite what to make of his awful AFL performance.

    Bourn has a future in majors. Lofton is stretching it, but he is better than Pierre and Coco Crisp.

    We traded 5 years of Bourn and 6 years of Costanzo, plus Geary for a one-year rental of a reliever we hope will benefit from a change of scenery. And, I guess we get a sandwich pick when he leaves after this season. Plus we pay more $ and lose the benefit of the low salary years of Bourn and Costanzo.

    I don’t like the deal.

    Resigning Rowand just got very important.

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  18. I go with Brad Harman as the Phils third baseman of the future . This guy is something but has never played the position. I assume he will play third at Reading. He was the top hitter in the FSL playoff with Clearwater as a second baseman. He is now playing on the Aussie team in the World Cup games in Taipei as a shortstop. Check out the video of several of his plays a short against the Cubans from Weds. If you do not want to watch the entire game go to the 1:48 mark of the game on the on demand video to see his double; 1:58 to see his unbelievable play behind the bag at second and 2:11 to see his play in the hole at short. To me this guy is the t Phils third baseman of the future. My only question is why he was not moved to third sooner?
    http://www.stadeo.tv/baseball_world_cup_2007/games/

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  19. Looks like we: 1) Improved the rotation, 2) Made an even swap in the bullpen, 3) found our utility IF for less than Nunez made last year, and 4) weakened our OF. Assigning Gillick to likely have to find a fourth OF is a lot easier of a task than asking him to find a number 2 starter. I’m happy with the deal.

    On a side note, I wonder if a little light went off in Golson’s head.

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  20. Rickey B, I’ve had the same thought about Harman. Would love to see him switched to 3b at Reading; it seems like he has the glove to handle it, and that’s our need. And playing at AA at age 22, he’s got time yet to close whatever holes remain in his game.

    Only issue is that I’d like to see Jason Donald tried there as well, and they’re both slated to start at Reading. Presumably that’s solvable.

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  21. So, here’s my more detailed stance, if I can provide it without people coming for my head….

    It’s a risky trade, but it’s one that contending teams need to make. Lidge struggled down the stretch last year, but he still has good peripherals, with the exception of the walks. If it really was a mental thing, and he does come here with a fresh attitude and outlook, then it could be huge. His 2004 and 2005 were outstanding, and he was one of the best closers in baseball. His strikeout numbers are video game like, but he needs to get straightened out. Scrap Iron threw him under the bus and jerked him around in Houston, we know Manuel won’t do that in Philadelphia. The biggest question is how Myers reacts. He’s being Joe Team Player with the press now, but you know deep down he’s not happy, and you have to wonder how that will affect his offseason preparation. If we did in fact “gain a #2 starter” then it makes the deal even better. If we gained instead a guy who’s going to mope and not be 100% committed, well then we might have inherited more problems.

    As for the other players. Bourn is a valuable piece, but he’s a fringe guy right now. We think he could be better than Juan Pierre, but we can’t really be sure. He was rushed up through the system a bit and hit a wall at AA in terms of the progression of his offensive game. His speed was never in doubt, but the question still remains if he can sustain a high enough OB% with zero power. Costanzo seems like the next Russell Branyan, much more so than the next Ryan Braun, or heck, even Mike Lamb. Could he turn a corner and suddenly put it all together? Maybe, but I wouldn’t count on it. His cheap years aren’t worth a whole lot if he’s hitting .230/.300/.400 in the big leagues.

    It’s a risk. If Lidge pitches well enough, he’ll be a Type A free agent and will garner us two picks. If he doesn’t, he’ll be a Type B more than likely and still net us a pick. We needed starting rotation help, we still DO need starting rotation help, and Myers is a good start. The price we paid here wasn’t great, and will ultimately hinge on Michael Bourn’s career. However, the object is to win now, and then trust your scouts and talent evaluators to have a strong draft in June and re-stock the system.

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  22. Well, Phuture, I think you got it about right. Let’s hope
    that Myers’ head can make the adjustment. I like Bourn,
    and his being from Houston might help–but I think Wade
    is overestimating his value. Likewise, I think little Eddie
    miscalculates with Costanzo. As I have written elsewhere,
    I think it’s a blessing that we got something for him. Like
    Ricky Branch, I see Harman as the best 3B prospect in the
    system, with Donald and Mattair farther behind. In short,
    I think Eddie did us a favor. But he owes us at least one.

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  23. I really see only limited risk here. What is Bourn’s upside? An OPS that might reach north of .750? None of these players are good enough that will have any serious regrets going forward. As long as the Lidge from 2006 does not show up, we have a proven closer and a #2 starter – as others have noted. Excellent work by Gillick who accomplishes this without giving up the prospects in the system who might actually make a difference one day (savery, cardenas, carrasco).

    As as side not, compare this trade with what Boston gave up for Gagne who is pretty comparable to Lidge. I think we did alright. Hopefully Lidge pitches better than Gagne did though.

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  25. Some interesting comments today. I think the trade is terrific. the Phils traded two “B” prospects and got themselves a #2 starter. I agree that questions abound but do teams don’t trade players like Lidge coming off a monster year. They get traded off a down year and very often come back to have a good or even great year, especially with free agency looming for them. People who are upset about the trading of Bourn need to wake up. Victorino and Bourn are both centerfielders really and the Phils have several more speedy powerless CFs in the system as we all know. One of them had to be traded for pitching and to get a guy like Lidge is terrific. I for one have been saying that starters are much harder to find than closers and Myers needs to start. John Smoltz basically said the same thing during the year. Myers will be fine with the switch. I think he expected it knowing the market. Does anyone not think this is better than paying Carlos Silva or Kyle Lohse 10 million a year for 4 years? That’s what they’re going to go for in this market this year. As for 3rd base, the money saved in not needing a starter can now go towards 3b. I would be surprised if the Phils don’t trade for a 3b now. Atkins or Blaylock are definitely possibilities. If Texas goes hard for Tori Hunter as expected they’ll trade Blaylock to someone. Colorado would have to decide they want to give the position to a rookie and I’m not sure they’re ready to do that yet. They do however have a prime 3b prospect ready to go and Atkins is in an arbitration year. To get him would might cost the Phils Carrasco and I’m sure if they’d do that. Blaylock would come cheaper for obvious reasons, he hasn’t been as good in recent years. Also, remember that the Phils brought Jake back into the organization last year. Lastly, my first thought was that Golson will make the major league roster out of camp to be used exactly like Bourn. Golson will never be more than a 5th outfielder but he can run, field, and throw very well right now. Also, expect the Phils to sign Wilkerson or Jenkins to platoon in RF with Werth.

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  27. “He looks like a better player than he is,” said a National League scout, when asked for his take on Costanzo.

    (As reported by Jerry Crasnick at ESPN.com.)

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  28. This trade has nothing to do with Greg Golson. Don’t forget Bruntlett can play outfield, too. If the Phillies need another outfielder besides Chris Roberson, he will come in a trade or it will be Javon Moran. There’s no way Golson is ahead of Moran on the depth chart, nor should he be. Golson needs time to develop plate discipline if he can. Personally, I don’t see it. In fact, if there’s another trade in the offing I’d be pleased to see Golson a part of it.

    Another thing about this trade: the Phillies picked the right prospect to move in Costanzo. I realize a lot of people were beguiled by his size and enthusiasm, and it may be that Costanzo is a right swell guy, but he has serious flaws in his game on both sides of the ball. Costanzo was not going to solve the third base issue next season by any stretch, and, as someone else pointed out, whoever he eventually plays for is going to have to live with some serious growing pains at the MLB level.

    Great trade, all things considered.

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  30. Well, best to be the first one in line to get Ed Wade to bite on a veteran reliever and his need to add ‘speed’ to his lineup. Its hard to see guys like Bourn and Costanzo leave after building your hopes on them as they come up through the system, but it was probably as good as you could do to get Lidge. With his struggles i’ve kept watch on him waiting for the stuff to disappate and injury- but it never happened, his stuff is as sharp as ever. I like Costanzo- he’ll make to the bigs with his bat, it just might take a few more years to break in, and it probably won’t be at third where the phillies would have needed him.

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  31. If the Astros were smart, they’d find a 2 month solution at 3B, then bring Costanzo up in June after he’s put up his .650 OPS in April and May and is primed for one of his .900+ OPS months in the summer.

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  32. Phuture – I like Costanzo more than most, but he’s not going to be ready for the majors in June. My guess is that he will have an okay year in AAA, coming on strong at the end and then will struggle for a few years between AAA and the majors because his fielding still stinks and he strikes out far too much. Ultimately, I think he’ll have some traction and become a 20-25 homer a year guys with a low BA, moderate OBP and OPS and low fielding percentage. He would have been a nice number 7 hitter in the Phils line-up, but I’m not going to lose sleep over not having him on the team.

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  33. the fish —
    I’m not as pessimistic on Costanzo playing 3B as you are, but am particularly puzzled by the ‘3B where we need him’ comment. We surely need him or somebody at 3B, but he isn’t ready until 2009 and at that time we also will have a crying need for a corner OF with a bat.

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  34. All you people talking about how costanzo is a bust and he will never amount to anything, don’t know anything about him. He didnt play 3rb in college so he is just getting back into the swing of things since playing 3rb in highschool. You talk about Brad Harman as the future 3rb for the phillies?? ahaha that is the biggest joke i have ver heard. He is just as much as an error rick at 3rb as costanzo. Brad makes erros at SS, plus it his 10x harder to field at 3rb. Plus brad can’t hit like costanzo, brad is a contact hitter, a third baseman is a power hitter right??? You all prolly never played bseball pass little league so you dont know much about baseball or how different/hard it is in college and the minors/pros. Write this down COSTANZO IN THE PROS FOR HOUSTON B4 THE SEASON ENDS.

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  36. Why all the Costanzo bashing…Especially Phuturephillies…I know the majority of the bashes probably never have seen him play…I just don’t get bashing a minor leaguer, who I think has an upside…I have seen him play in several games and yeah needs work, but so does every minor leaguer…It’s not as easy as everybody thinks to just change a Harman-(check out his errors in 2005 Lakewood-32 and 2006 at Clearwater-37), Cardenas has no arm so they moved him to 2nd base and Donald,-(27 errors between Lakewood & Clearwater in 2006) …Mattair is the only legit 3rd base prospect and he’s 3-4 years away….
    Plus none of the above poses Costanzo power potential.
    I’m curious where Baseball America will rank Costanzo in Houstons top ten….I’d say no higher then #3

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  37. Well, the Orioles have left Costsanzo unprotected for this year’s Rule 5 Draft (as if we needed further validation that the Lidge deal was a success). I still think he’ll eventually have some use as a major league player, but I highly doubt anyone takes a flier on him on December 10.

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  38. The Phils should definitely take him back and at least see what he can do in ST – if he sticks, great – if he doesn’t, you still might be able to keep him a la Shane Victorino. I looked up last year and saw what I wrote about him and I still think I was right. He’s not going to be an overnight success, but he may definitely have a future as a major league player, particularly because he has power and knows how to draw a walk.

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  39. Let’s look back at this trade again – Brad Lidge for Costanzo, Bourn, and Geary. God bless you, Ed Wade, may we do business again soon. I hope you never get fired again.

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  40. Ooh, Ooh, we should nab him in the Rule 5 draft….seriously why not? It doesnt hurt to take him.

    Ed Wade proved he is still a Phillie at heart with that trade.

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  43. I’m sure phuturephillies will have more on the Rule 5 Draft as it approaches, and I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but just my two cents — I don’t see any point to taking Costanzo. It looks like he played a lot of 1B for Norfolk this year (so he isn’t really a future solution at 3B) and as a lefthanded 1B/RF/LF type, he’s really no different from Jeremy Slayden. For comparison’s sake, their minor league lines…

    Slayden: .294/.377/.480 (10.8% BB / 22.2% K) in 1509 AB
    Costanzo: .256/.356/.439. (11.7% BB / 30.3%) in 1776 AB

    I know, I know: Slayden’s a year older and has played a level lower, but you get my point. I just think the last thing the Phils need to do right now is to waste another roster spot on a lefthanded corner outfielder.

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  44. FRIAR check the splits Slayden hits left handers better than right handers which would make him possibly a good pinch hitter since brain dead manager alway will bring in lefties to face him.
    Costanzo has very little power outside of Reading
    not even close

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  45. Right. I was just going to say that, believe it or not. In order to just not be wasting at least $25,000 he’d have to have a spot on the team. Where?

    Ed Wade update: BA just did a little piece on the Astros releasing this season’s 6th round pick (LHP, in this week’s transactions under Astros). They did not have a 1st or 2nd and couldn’t sign the 3rd or the 4th. They got the 5th though.

    Those tracking the AAA roster Will note that M. Cervenak, A. Tracy and J. Suomi are being brought back.
    Since I don’t see the point in bringing back Suomi at lower than AAA level, perhaps they don’t plan on having both catchers many regard as AAA or above “prospects” at AAA next season.

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  46. How stupid is Wade . He cares only if a guy can run. First
    Rob Ducey then the messers Brian Hunter(like one wasnt enough) Now Bourn .288 obp How do you do that.
    I am so glad he is gone and Gillick too. The Andy Reed of baseball
    Ps. there is a lesson there hopefully unlike the Eagles the Phils wont depend on a weak division forever

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  48. I agree with Marfis. It’s not a good use of a roster spot. That Astros draft is awful. They’re going to be bad for a long time.

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