316 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of October 24, 2021”

1. Here are my prayers for Baseball Ross. Hope you get better soon!

   Jim, please root for Atlanta, I want a Houston sweep. As always, I want a quick WS so we can really kick off the Off Season.

2. Get well soon Baseball Ross and many prayers for a swift recovery….

   Agreed Denny I hope the Stros sweep them out so we can get onto the offseason. I didn’t predict anything but I did say a few months ago I’d like to see either Billy Beane or Dusty Baker get a WS title.

   So more or less I’ll be rooting for Dusty and not any Astro’s players per se. Brantley is a guy I like a little bit and a few of their young pitchers are exciting to watch.

   1. My sons are excited for Dust Baker and now think he should have been here not Joe G. I disagree, I think DB is a result of his players, good players=good results, inverse of the Phillies. Maybe he is good because he doesn’t mess up this formula.

3. Thanks for that info, Jim. I hope the organization does promote them. I’d hate to see the club eventually lose that person.

   1. BTW … I think this is the end of the road for the Braves. Astros in 6.

      1. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

      2. MLBTR’s WS poll posted last night. Who wins? Right now, about 36% of respondents believe the Braves win in 6. I agree. If so, the final day of the off season would be Tue Nov 2.

4. Bobby Dickerson is back; where was he? Why is he good to have back now and where was he the last 2 years?

   1. I think that when Gabe was let go, his staff was free to accept other jobs. So Dickerson rejoined Manny Machado in San Diego. But with Tingler fired, that vibe may have flatlined. His reputation for coaching up gold glovers is pretty strong, and we all know gold gloves and Phillies haven’t gone together in recent years. JTR won the award on ’19. Before him, Rollins in ’12 and Polanco in ’11. That’s not good representation.

      1. Thanks for the Dickerson clarification. Now I remember that he was going to be the magnet to attract MM.

         1. Dickerson went to SD as their bench coach. That’s a promotion and more money than a fielding coach. Can’t blame him for that career decision.

   2. He left the Phillies to become bench coach in San Diego. He’s very close with Manny Machado so AJ Preller thought he’d be a good influence on that club.

5. Prayers for a quick recovery for Baseball Ross. Jim, without divulging any inside info that you have, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the Farm system over the next few years? On the WS, I can’t root for either, and just want it over quickly so the hot stove league can start. We need to be aggressive, we need some out of the box thinking, and we need some luck, and we can’t start soon enough because there is so much to do. And, as I am typing this I get an Alert, ” MLB work stoppage seems likely.” I am certain that will slow down activity dramatically.

   1. Optimistic.

6. It maybe unpopular, but go Braves! I want to see Freddy get that elusive ring.
   This is all a product of the Phillies firing Kranitz as pitching coach and the Braves swooped in and grab him. It also didn’t hurt that the Braves grabbed Morton after the Phillies didn’t bring him back.

   1. Interesting….can you imagine a Braves victory….and also not sure how the Commissioner will feel going to Atlanta to present a trophy if they win…after all it was only three months ago he pulled the All-Star game out of the city. He probably will not get a warm reception.

      1. I think the word is ‘irony’.

7. Great article from Gabe Lacques of USA Today

   https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/short-starts-long-games-mlb-playoffs-amplify-games-pitching-crisis-where-will-it-go-from-here/ar-AAPVxn5?ocid=hplocalnews

   I fear losing even more interest in baseball should the NL adopt the DH.

   1. DMAR…yes the game changes, the strategy and tactics change, more analytics now..
      There could be a wane in popularity among the youth, especially in the 3 plus hour event.
      The minds now for the young, are programmed for an instant thought process fueled by rapid change in imaging….the Tik-Tok generation…and baseball does not blend well with that.

      Not sure how baseball gets away from their current trend.
      IMO, I see it as a game of chess between managers.
      Kids now want checkers.

      1. Baseball is a game that engages the mind in terms of critical thinking, and yes, that is something lost on the youth of today. It’s all swift moving images and sound bites for their amusement. Baseball will not appeal to them no matter how many bells and whistles Manfred and his empty corporate suited cohorts come up with.

         The DH is sensible at this point only because coaching pitchers to hit, or pitchers even bothering to try (with rare exception) is virtually nonexistent. I once despised the idea but now it doesn’t make sense not to make it universal.

         1. Mark/Romus simple question is do you enjoy baseball more or less than you did 10 years ago…

            For me its less and I feel that’s mostly because of the pace of play and disruptions that occur during the course of 9 innings. Many factors contribute towards that such as replay and batters constantly having to step out of the box for this that and the other adjustments they make to themselves.

            I get what they are doing as its likely reflexive in nature so they can process data and decide pitch to pitch what they might want to look for.

            I would say a close second to that are the shifts and less balls in play. I don’t think the increase in HRs is enough to negate the increase in BBs and Ks

            1. DMAR, the pace of play is only a concern when the quality of play is below standard.

               I’m ambivalent to the shifts in that while I find them annoying, one way to discourage them is for batters to start bunting/slapping the other way like baseball players are supposed to.

               As for homeruns, chicks may love the long ball, and Chris “Back back back back” Berman as well, but real baseball fans enjoy all aspects of the game. Personally, I enjoy a stolen base and a hit&run on occasion. The 3 outcome version has gotten old real fast.

               To answer your initial question, I can’t say I’ve enjoyed the game for the past 10 plus years. The 2010’s have basically sucked in terms of both quality and malfeasance from the MLB offices on down.

            2. DMAR…..for me, my enjoyment may be a little less…watching a full 9 inning game is long gone for me….even when at the ballpark i cannot sit thru nine innings…need to get up and roam….like the phone.

8. Seems like ratings have been pretty good:

   https://sportsnaut.com/mlb-ratings-tv-viewership-numbers/

9. I’m pulling for the Braves. I’m a National league guy plus the Astros got off cheap on cheating in the World Series.

   1. I’m a Phillies guy and I always root against the NL team in the WS. Just how I roll.

   2. Perhaps they got off cheap because MLB knew that most of the top teams were doing it but were less successful than the Astros. This was a warning shot to the others to clean it up because heaven forbid they punish a team from LA, NYC, or Boston.

10. We will be rooting for the Braves. Although I have been a lifetime Phillies fan, I live in the Atlanta area, and we will be rooting for the Braves.

    We were hoping to go to a game, but it looks like tickets may approach $1000 to get in. That’s well above what I would be willing to pony up. My kids may not like it, but my bank account and their 529 accounts will be much happier if we watch from home..

    1. My 3 sons and families are down here in the South as Phillies’ fans but our daughter married a Braves’ fan so that family is our friendly foe. Hard to hug grandsons with their Braves jerseys on.

       1. Denny, I too moved to the south and married into a Braves rooting family. So I feel your pain. Makes for some interesting dinner conversations. And when they pick on me I blame the GM for not assembling a winner. So I hope this GM will make dinner time for me much more pleasant and bearable.

          1. We’re pretty respectful of each other. My son in law is not a Chooch. But here’s to always hopeful we get the right management. Maybe a food fight might breakout, lol. At least we have been to a WS twice since their appearance and won one. If they lose we still have that.

             1. LOL, Denny. Look at you showing off you half Italian side. The only thing worse than a Braves fan is a Braves fan who is also a chooch.

                1. Yes, they are dead to me. Ciao.

       2. I have grandsons in CO that are Cowboys fans which is a tough pill to swallow

          1. OUCH! Start buying them Broncos’ gear.

11. A lot of analysts are saying that there will be a work stoppage and I agree, there’s just too many issues to fix:

    The popularity of the game is going downhill. The game is too long, and analytics have made it hard to watch for the young folks. Too many strikeouts and shifts, not enough offense and putting the ball in play. You could even say that the pitching is too good.

    Tanking teams and teams who don’t want to spend.

    The elite players will always get paid but the other players are not getting the money in FA. Is there collusion on this? Or is it just analytics saying that you can’t give big money to older players (like football)?

    1. Baseball seems popular enough on the surface and it’s a cash cow because the teams play 162 games, the stadiums are big and for half the year there’s not much competition from the other sports, but baseball is on a downward trajectory. Who wants to watch a boring 3 and a half hour game on weekeday in July? The sport has a lot of problems and doesn’t seem to be doing the right things to address them, which is caused, in part, by the powerful union, although there is plenty of blame to go around.

       I love baseball and it’s really hard for me to watch a whole game these days. Some of that is the Phillies, but certainly not all of it.

       1. MLB is fortunate that for the three months of June thru August…..they have it relatively very easy not having to compete with any of the other three pro sports
          Then come Sept and Oct., and there are the intense play-off pushes and then the play-offs. So they seem to have a pretty good financial cushion to nestle themselves in.

          1. Agreed, but it’s not a birthright and if they treat it like that, they are going to wake up one day and find they are like the 5th most popular sport. They are not taking care of things at home and the cracks in the facade are showing. Baseball loses ground practically ever year.

             1. Yeah…. one thing baseball needs to do, is somehow grasp a handle and hold on that mid-teens thru that early-30ish year old grouping.
                Not sure they are doing a good job.
                In a decade or two, you are correct, they could be the 5th most popular sport.

                1. You could argue right now that baseball is behind NFL, college football, NBA, college basketball.

                2. You could! Not a good place to be and getting worse all the time.

       2. The NBA lives off of Chinese revenue. Their U.S viewership approaches tennis and horse racing Nielsen’s. MLB needs to tighten up the game. The pitch clock works fabulously in the MILB. Cuts off at least 15 minutes. Some other tweaks would help. American sports fans lost NCAAF then the NFL as their favorite sports to watch. MLB may never overcome those sports but four or five hour WS games don’t help.

          1. Agreed. The 4-5 hour game is brutal; unwatchable in most cases, particularly for a slow-paced every day sport. These games are less events than wars of attrition – IT’S BORING and, I love baseball, but it is. NBA and NHL games last about 2 hours and 40 minutes. If the MLB games were routinely around 3 hours, it would help a lot. The pitch clock is an absolute no-brainer. Agree that would cut off 15 to 20 minutes at least right there. They need to make instant replay review much faster. That should be done within a minute for most calls. I already like the 3 batter rule for pitchers.

             1. If players in the NBA can get down court and run a full set in 24 seconds, I think a pitcher can throw a pitch in 15. If he’s not set in 15 to throw, he gets a warning the first time. The second time and every time thereafter, it’s an automatic ball. Also, limit throwing over to the base – one time before a pitch is made – that’s it. Just to scare the runner. If that results in more stolen bases, excellent, we could use the added entertainment.

                1. I get entertained watching Andrew Knapp…re-tighten his glove/wrist bands after every pitch.

                2. The Phillies should immediately designate Knapp for assignment, and should he opt for free agency, offer him a coaching job within the organization. Seems like a good candidate. Pitchers reportedly like pitching to him. There’s value in that quality. Having the ear of young men is an invaluable tool. His playing days here should not extend to the 2022 season. Trade for Zunino or sign Romine.

                3. Oh my God, the Andrew Knapp every pitch ritual!!! It’s insane. Pitch thrown, step out, bat under the arm, adjust left glove, adjust right glove, grip the bat and take a mini swing. Meanwhile, your toddlers have graduated from high school. Should absolutely be banned. No stepping out without cause. Get in there and hit.

       3. What all those blown saves didn’t keep you locked in? 😂. The bullpen has been brutal for years, what a 3 hr game, ex-eating a win, only for the bullpen to waste 3 hrs of your time … repeatedly.
          Baseball needs an alternative to its current format. Offer a condensed game for instance where the 2nd version is 10 mi utes behind the live feed, and all the at bats are edited to minimize the pitch sequence. They do sow,thing similar. Where they just so the pitch that resulted in an out, hit, erro, etc. they should expand it so you can see the pitch sequence, pitching battles. Mix in some high tech graphic stats, build the suspense better. It cans be done but mlb doesn’t like change

12. Prediction: the Braves sign Odubel to a one year deal with an option for years 2 and 3 and he turns into a Philly killer next year.

    1. Lol. Probably true. And we sign Freddie Freeman and he becomes Travis Lee and Eddie Rosario and he becomes Cutch.

    2. If the Phillies find themselves an upgrade in CF, I wouldn’t care. If the Braves killed the Phillies in the standings, that’s all that matters. It’s an overplayed narrative, in my opinion. Players are forever changing uniforms and some eventually “come back to haunt” their old team as a course of probability. It doesn’t necessarily prove anything.

13. Thanks Jim for addressing my nuggets question.

    The potential work stoppage may make this a boring offseason for us fans 😦

14. Nothing in worse than the shift in baseball. I’d rather have steroids, sign stealing, … I’ll even gladly give up the “No DH” NL stance to forever ban the shift. It’s that bad on the game imho. It’s a strong opinion. But it has caused me to stop watching games. Nothing worse than a rally crushing shift. I hear fans say “ hit it where they ain’t” … sure … but how about the pitcher works each side the plate correctly? The .300 is like the bald eagle, it’s basically extinct do to the shift. It’s like fishing with dynamite… makes defense to easy imo. I have to believe it’s killing baseball in the 18-35 range.

    1. My solution….extend the 95′ “mound-to-the-grass-line” another 5 feet to 100’….but make all infielders have two feet touching the dirt until the pitch is delivered….a give and take so to speak..
       Still have a shift….but the ss , 2nd or 3rd basemen are not in shallow RF for a LHB.

    2. Tac I heard Francisco Lindor being interviewed one night. He hates the shift as a fielder. He hates that he has to listen to someone tell him where to position as opposed to allowing him to use his own instincts.

       And as Harold Reynolds says all the time the analytics removes all or most of the athleticism from the game and asks the perfect question “Is that what fans really want to see a strato-matic game?”

       I personally think the line is thin there

       But probably no good answer. Ratings don’t seem to matter to owners when networks keep ponying up for the rights to broadcast them and franchise values continue to climb above that 1 Billion mark for the lowliest of franchises.

       1. Shifts have been a part of baseball for almost 100 years….they shifted on Williams…first Cy in the 20s and then Ted in he 40s.
          Now it seems to be used far too often and a bit more extreme.

       2. Personally I don’t want to see it. I think Harold is spot on. Its like the trap in hockey, it gets results but it’s boring as F to watch. I won’t labor this too much, I think people on here know I how I feel about the shift. It’s need a major overhaul. The issue is that baseball can lose fans, but still increase the value of the franchise & yearly earnings. The game gets rewarded for doing bad decisions imo. It doesn’t lite the fire under the owners butts. I’m sure they will wake up one day and say “what happened?” Well they’ve been standing on the train tracks for 30 years And they’ll act like they didn’t see it coming. Personally, I can think of a lot things the mlb could do to drum up new fans, or increase the fandom of those already hooked, the issue with the mlb, is they tend to be stagnant.

          1. Owners? IMO, if their marketing geniuses determined that they could maximize profits without admitting a single fan through the scanning turnstiles, they wouldn’t think twice.

15. Wait until the work stoppage, and the numbers afterward. They will crater amongst that 18-30 crowd, and us older folks won’t be happy either. I used to watch the Playoffs all the time, even up to 4-5 years ago, but unless the Phils get back into them, I can’t sit and watch, Once the Phils are out, I concentrate on off season moves. I can’t watch a whole game that doesn’t involve us, and I think if I feel this way, I wonder what the audience numbers will be in 5-10 years? Doesn’t look good, and the last thing they need is a work stoppage.

    1. Understand an international draft may be on the agenda for the Dec CBA.
       Seems at some point this will be a foregone conclusion.

    2. I am also hopelessly partisan when it comes to my sports teams. I rarely watch a postseason even that doesn’t involve my team except perhaps for the last two rounds in the NFL playoffs (including the Super Bowl – like most Americans, I always watch that). I think the last postseason I watched intently not involving the Phillies was when the Red Sox came back in 2004. I am a complete homer.

16. Feel better Ross.

    Good update on Bohm

    https://www.philliesnation.com/2021/10/new-phillies-hitting-coach-kevin-long-discusses-plan-to-get-alec-bohm-back-on-track/

17. Not much said out there about the Braves in the WS with only 88 wins. Lowest of the 10 teams to make the playoffs. And they also played in one of the weakest divisions.

    1. What it says is that over the years records won’t always tell the whole story. The Braves were a really solid baseball team but when Acuna went down I’m sure that rattled everyone’s cage down there.

       If he doesn’t get hurt surely they run away with the division and win 95+ games maybe…

       But are they better a TEAM the way it worked out? I often wonder if sometimes having the best player on the field makes you a weaker team.

    2. See my explanation here – the Braves actually performed much better than an 88-win team. They were more like a 94 or 95 win team but just had some bad luck. But, ultimately, the pendulum swung back and they performed as they should have all along. They are a good team and one that got a lot better at the trade deadline.

18. The wins don’t matter, it’s how the team is playing at the end of the season, and into the Playoffs, and the Braves are playing very well. It didn’t matter to them that they had 88 wins and the Dodgers 106, and the job that Anthopoulos did at the trade deadline was really remarkable.

    1. The Phillies ran into this with the Cardinals many moons ago…

    2. matt13…Braves also did not reach .500 baseball until first week of August.
       But from August 1st thru the end of the season,
       …36-19 and pulled away from the pack in the final furlongs. .

       1. The Braves season was a statistical aberration. For the longest time their record was under .500 even though they had scored many more runs than they had allowed. It was, in short, bad luck. But the law of averages caught up with everyone else the last couple of months of the season, when the Braves began to gain ground. Even with an 88-73 record, they still finished well below their projections of a 94 win season. In short, even when their record wasn’t great, they were pretty good. They won the division as they should have.

    3. This is partially a function of a mediocre system not having the prospects to trade, but it is also a function of not being aggressive at the trade deadline. Klentak was tepid in his acquisitions and while Gibson and Kennedy was at least a more positive this season, all these deadlines have seemingly operated with the idea that adding a few wins to a team on a pace to win 85 games was just not worth it.

       The Braves certainly went all in with a team comparable to the Phillies at midseason. Now they had better prospects to deal, but theoretically we might have had the ability to absorb more contract dollars.

       1. … and the truth of the matter is Joc Pederson, Adam Duvall, Jorge Soler, and Eddie Rosario only cost the Braves Bryce Ball, Alex Jackson, Kasey Kalich, and Pablo Sandoval. Just an incredible job by Alex Anthopolis.

          1. That work was next level and then some. Pat Gillick would be proud.

          2. Yep. We should have figured out a way to add somebody like Josh Donaldson for the cost of picking up a substantial piece of his contract. He’d actually have been someone that could have played 3B last year but next year be in the mix for that or LF or DH depending on what happens with Bohm. We just left a giant hole in our lineup when we decided (mostly on merit) that Bohm was not good enough this year.

             1. Let’s give the Phillies a little credit. Even though they were only fair, the trade with the Rangers stabilized the rotation and the bullpen. Gibson and Kennedy weren’t great – but there was no implosion as there might have been had the trade not been made and it allowed Suarez to stay in the rotation where he was much more valuable. Also, Hoskins got hurt and that really was a big problem that could not be anticipated or solved (as it occurred after the trade deadline). Had he remained healthy, things might have gone very differently.

                1. DD does deserve credit, catch, it was a good trade with the Rangers, and Gibson gave us a good 4/4 SP effort, and I have no criticism of the trade. Also, Ranger became a SP. And, no one knew we were going to be without Hoskins for the rest of the season. But, we did know that the CF/leadoff production was not good enough, and that Cutch was struggling mightily in LF, so any one of those 4 OF gets by the Braves would have been a big help here. I believe that DD was hamstrung by the Salary Cap, and again, that is on Middleton.

    4. Love the old school., 2 best teams fight it out.

19. Yes, DMAR and Romus, the infamous 2011 season when we were the best team in Baseball, and lost to the Cards. Romus, the value of the trade deadline to not only bolster weaknesses, but let the rest of the team know that the organization is going for it, can’t be overstated. Naturally, with the Braves in the WS there is a story on AA’s rise from a part time job with the Expos sorting players’ fan mail to the WS. He became friendly with a Scout and asked him a ton of questions. The Scout was friendly with a Professor at Delaware named Kerrane who wrote a book, which was highly regarded as a sports book, and he gave it to Anthopoulos as a gift. It’s a good article in the Athletic, but I am bringing it up here because of one line, ” Back in the early 80’s Kerrane embedded within the Phillies’ scouting department, back when that organization represented the pinnacle of the profession.” I don’t know what’s happened, and jim has indicated that those of us who liked the Matt Gelb article may not have all the facts. So, the Driveline reliance or stats vs scouting, or whatever caused us to fall very far from a pinnacle to mediocrity, I hope gets fixed. I have always believed that scouting was a crucial part of the game, and reversing whatever we have failed to do or why is our biggest need. I think all of you with access to the AThletic will enjoy the article.

20. At matt13 – I think part of Phillies success back then was a very strong Dominican Republic presence that scouted and signed some really strong players ; Julio Franco, George Bell , and Juan Samue among others that I have forgotten but that is an international connection that was broken quite awhile ago. To this day Phils really only sign Venezuelan players and have little exposure to DR. Even those players never really played that much for the team the value they extracted in trading them was critical to their success.

    1. RU is it possible that is more perception than reality. I know we haven’t really struck gold lately in the DR but we have had some talent come from that pool. We gave Jhailyn $4 mil. Neris has been pretty good.

       Sixto helped us get Realmuto. Maikel Franco etc..

       Also I forget their names now but there were a couple of other kids we gave close to $1 mil. Encarnacion was one who was the other I’m thinking of?

       1. Also I’m pretty sure JM invested a good chunk of change in the DR Academy not long after he took over as managing partner. And trust me I’m not saying its been some overwhelming success because it hasn’t

          but that’s a different point. They have spent money and they have tried to improve upon their DR talent pool.

          1. Kevin Goldstein, former Astro asst to GM exec now writing for Fangraphs ….says international draft is ready to begin …this CBA it is a leverage tool for MLBPA….not a big one, but still something they will use in the negotiations t their favor..

       2. DR kids…..Grullon and Pujols were $500/600K class……..Braylin Gonzalez was over $1M. They just did not work out well.

21. RU, great point! And, I don’t know what the reasons were or maybe still are, and I have only read speculations, but whatever they were, and I am sure it was way more than one factor, it has to be fixed. If we are ever getting back to be where we want to be, 2007- 2011 being the most recent, the farm system being strong and producing cost controlled talent as well as trade assets, is crucial to that success.

    1. I believe the raw talent among the top ranking prospects on the Phillies farm, say the first dozen or so, is significant enough to become a top 10 system within 2 years provided the people assigned to develop it know what they’re doing. Tampa, LAD, Atlanta and St Louis can’t possibly have cornered that market. The industry insiders determine who’s who among these coaches and specialists which can be harvested from the better organizations by offering positions commensurate with their acumen. You can hide these people in your ranks for only so long. Dombrowski has enough experience and industry connections. I’m confident he will right this ship sooner than later.

    2. Thanks matt13 – I guess my original point was – it seemed in that 1975-1982 era that the Phillies were signing DR players that were the best of the group there. Maybe it just seemed that way – but ever since Julio Franco – there has been so much competition – from Atlanta, Tampa, Yankees, and others who always sign the # 1 – # 5 talents that the Phillies “don’t seem to be as competitive” as they used to be. Yes I did overlook Pujols and of course Jhailyn – but i was referring to the comment, “Phillies were the cream of the crop” in scouting then etc.

       Romus has mentioned the international draft. Frankly – I hope it happens because it will break the stranglehold that the Tampa, Yankees, Dodgers, have on the best players from the LA market. Never mind the Asian players who play primarily on the west coast and the Cuban players who automatically end up with Cinci, Chisox, or Dodgers due to historical precedent.

22. https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/10/mlb-rumors-ex-yankees-mets-hitting-coach-will-help-phillies-land-red-sox-slugger-insider-says.html

    1. Schwarber ‘s power bat would be a nice addition to the Phillies lineup
       With the DH…..a rotation between JTR, Rhys and Schwarber would be what I would expect….with 1B being in that scene also.

23. [sigh] . . . https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-conversation-with-tampa-bay-rays-prospect-curtis-mead/

    1. Crikey!……he’s a goner now.
       One former GM said trading with Tampa is one of the hardest teams to deal with.
       Seems Matt Klentak got bit.

24. Phillies prospects shine in AFL. Stott 4-6 with a double, triple, 4 RBIs. O’hoppe 1-2 with 4 walks and an RBI. Muzziotti 1-5 with a single and on an error. McArthur 5 IP, 5 hits, 2ER, 0 walks and 4ks. 67 pitches with 47 strikes, about a 70% strike ratio. 1.171OPS for Stott. 1.005 for O’hoppe.

    1. So far so good for Stott and O’Hoppe.
       Hopefully they keep it going…and bring it with them in spring training.
       I think O’Hoppe gets a major league camp invite.

       1. OHoppe has looked so good that I’m wondering if he has passed Marchan as the likelier catcher to be traded because he has more trade value. One of them will likely be traded.

          1. Trading O’Hoppe would be a huge, perhaps franchise-altering mistake. A cheap, first division catcher is worth his weight in gold. It’s almost like trading a young, franchise quarterback. They have some time for this to play out. O’Hoppe will have at least another full year in the minors, so we will see, but if O’Hoppe is a future star you keep him and figure it out later. And you don’t trade him just because you have Realmuto just as the Phillies didn’t trade Howard just because they had Thome.

             1. I’ve posted this before … but … if I’m making a “Most Likely To Be Traded” list, Logan O’Hoppe is at (or at least near) the top of it. The Phillies are deep at the catching position. O’Hoppe is behind JTR and Rafael Marchan (who is still the better prospect), and they have kids like Andrick Nava and Rickardo Perez behind him.
                O’Hoppe may never hold more value than he does right now. Not trying to throw cold water on his prospect status, but you’ve got to remember Andrew Knapp (who was a second round draft pick) once slashed .308/.385/.491 (including .360/.419/.631 in 241 PAs at AA) during his age 23 season. I hate to see any of the young Phuture Phillies dealt, but sometimes some of the better ones have to be used to upgrade the big league club.

                1. My point exactly. The reality is that prospects don’t usually reach their ceiling. If OHoppe is generating real buzz and he can be the centerpiece for a deal for a CF, you do it. His value is sky high right now and JT will be here for the next 4 years or so. DD will trade one of the catchers for sure.

                2. Hinkie…..I think his value would be even higher , if he gets off to a very good start at LHV vs Triple A pitchng and sustains it.
                   Right now he may be in that 15/20 range among all minor league catching prospects….MLB.com does not have him in their top ten.

                   So many teams now have their youthful catchers in place or have some top prospects on their own lists waiting their turn to be promoted.
                   So the demand market is not as fruitful as it would appear.
                   But Dave D. may indeed decide to include him in a package for added value.

             2. Therein lies the tension of being in win-now urgency…to trade O’Hoppe or not. The argument for either is sound and reasonable. However, if acquiring a Bryan Reynolds is on the table, Dombrowski has to weigh the cost. I absolutely loath the idea of moving O’Hoppe, who appears to potentially become JTR 2.0, but since JTR is signed through the foreseeable future, how does a POBO/GM allocate his available resources? It hurts, yes. But it may be necessary to construct a legitimately contending major league roster.

                1. mark8:29….not sure Cherington needs or wants anotherr catcher in a deal …he already has the number one draft choice who will get all the opportunity to produce , plus he also got Abrahan Guiterrez from the Phillies in that mid-season trade.
                   I do not see adding o’Hoppe or Marchan moving the needle thta much further in any trade with them.

                2. Romus, perhaps the Pirates aren’t in “need” of another C, BUT value is value. Pittsburgh will soon have to cough up Reynolds since they’re historically cheap. Rival GM’s/POBO’s will bid for Reynolds this winter in light of this. And too many catchers means they would have more value from which to deal in future activity. I don’t get the idea that Guttierez is considered a top organizational prospect in the true sense of the term. Anyway, offering O’Hoppe, Abel, Rojas and Miller may get DD at the poker table.

                3. If we start trading our rare diamond prospects then the dreaded DD experience of a brief upward playoff run (or couple of runs) followed by years of rebuilding, as the Tigers and Red Sox were forced to do, will visit us sooner rather than later. If you think O’Hoppe is a future all-star, there’s no way you trade him and these other guys, including Marchan, are not readily interchangeable with him. The team has to do something it hasn’t done well – scout it’s own prospects. It failed with Mead, we can’t afford another Mead situation. If you think he’s a second division regular, you almost have to trade him but if he’s a future star, you don’t trade him and, no Realmuto doesn’t create a problem. You move him when you’re ready to do so – he has value and can be moved.

          2. O’Hoppe seems to get very little respect from the national pundits.
             He has produced everywhere he has gone….at a younger age no less than the average player at that level.
             Not sure what people consdier his overall value.
             We may consider it higher than the rest of baseball.

25. Romus, especially if Marchan is part of a trade. I just known there will be a trade of some kind, after all DD is the POBO. Glad Stott is doing so well, O’Hoppe also. I don’t know what Stott’s position will turn out to be, but I hoe they pick 1, 2B?, and let him stick there. I believe the bat is real.

26. With the season winding down, I was monkeying around with what the Phillies’ 40 man roster may look like in front of the rule 5 draft. Here are the guys I think are most likely to be kept/added:

    PHILLIES 40-MAN

    Zack Wheeler
    Aaron Nola
    Zach Eflin
    Ranger Suarez
    Kyle Gibson
    Bailey Falter
    Hans Crouse
    Adonis Medina
    Francisco Morales
    Christopher Sanchez
    Connor Brogdon
    Jose Alvarado
    Sam Coonrod
    JoJo Romero
    Ser Ant’ny Dominguez
    Kyle Dohy
    Damon Jones
    Braeden Ogle
    James McArthur

    JT Realmuto
    Rafael Marchan
    Andrew Knapp

    Rhys Hoskins
    Jean Segura
    Didi Gregorius
    Alec Bohm
    Nick Maton
    Luke Williams
    Luis Garcia (just 21 YO, but I wouldn’t risk losing him)

    Bryce Harper
    Roman Quinn
    Matt Vierling
    Adam Haseley
    Mickey Moniak
    Simon Muzziotti
    Jhailyn Ortiz

    Ramon Rosso, JD Hammer, and Travis Jankowski could all be on the list, but be the first to be DFA’d as DD adds FAs or makes trades (or even participates in the rule 5 draft). Damon Jones’ spot would be the next in jeopardy IMO.
    I could see Medina getting traded.
    Haseley is a peculiar case. I’m not sure he has a future here, but you’d hate to deal him at his absolute lowest value.
    Andrew Knapp may be replaced with a better backup catcher at some point this winter.
    Former Paul Owens award winner Ethan Lindow would be left unprotected, but I don’t think he would likely be picked in the draft.

    1. BTW … Medina has no more MiLB options left. That’s why I’d have him near the top of that “Most Likely To Be Traded” list I mentioned Logan O’Hoppe was on above.

       1. I can see the Dodgers taking on a reclamation project like Medina since the Phillies have yet to unlock whatever might be in him. Or Tampa. He’s another kid who seems to have run his course. And like Hinkie said, he’s also out of options.

       2. Hinkie….Rays could bite on Haseley…potential is there, has been to the ‘show’…pedigree of a top ten pick….very good character guy…who knows..
          Maybe get Mead back in return. 🙂

          1. Maybe part of a trade for Kevin Kiermairer. Keirmairer makes a lot of sense for the Phillies.

          2. If the Rays were to say yes we’ll give you KK for Haseley say hmmm I think we’ll keep Haseley and hang up….

             1. Really? If you think KK is worth his salary, I’d take him for Haseley. Haseley is no longer a projectable player. But it wouldn’t be just Haseley, it would be Haseley and some guy in low A ball who will turn out to be a first division regular or a rough arm that become a 3 in the rotation. That’s the danger of dealing with Tampa.

                1. Yeah I can see Haseley paired with Christian McGowan to Tampa for KK. McGowan may be one of those arms in the weeds which savvy clubs might poach from the Phillies. A seeming throw in who becomes a key piece with the Rays.

                2. “Haseley is no longer a projectable player. “…?
                   He is 26 and the Phillies still think he has MLB potential.
                   Only 355 PAs over three years……whatever problems he had probably will be best rectified within another organization……but he has the talent.
                   The Phillies will more than likely move on…….but it would not surprise me that he develops into a solid everyday 3 to 4WAR CFer with another team.
                   .

                   https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/haselad01.shtml

                3. Romus – maybe you’re right. I’m just not seeing it. I’m seeing a player who has some tools but appears to be floundering – far more than one would hope or expect. I see a lost player – one I don’t count on or rely upon to any degree. Maybe he can turn it around somewhere else, but I think he’s probably done here.

                4. And I think he has VERY little value in the marketplace. So he’s a guy who maybe you keep because he’s not getting you anything and, who knows?

                5. Yeah…some team will have to unlock his potential.
                   Like Hinkie said ……the Phillies will be selling really low if they move him , and on a top ten draft pick from just 4 years ago.

    2. Does anyone know what Roman Quinn’s recovery status is?

       He’s cheap, but rather two-dimensional…fast and injury prone. He’s been with the organization forever. There can’t be any viable trade partners unless some MLB team has an effective healing prayer ministry. But for what, anyway? And he’s out of options. Keep him on the 40man/60day IL? I only hope they don’t tie up a roster spot should upgrades be coming here.

       1. Quinn has been in Clearwater since the beginning of Instructs. He’s walking without crutches or a cast. He’s been working out with coaches performing running drills. One, in particular, is the one with the little parachute attached.

          1. The 60-day-IL will be gone in a few days and won’t be back until next season. Keeping Quinn will take up a roster spot. He’s also entering arbitration. We’ll know soon the Phillies’ plans re:Quinn when he is tendered or non-tendered.

27. Hinkie, I also think it’s the last se see of Roman Quinn. Muzziotti is a much better defensive player, and while he doesn’t have Roman’s speed, I think he is much more suited to be a 4th OF. I agree with you about Medina. But, I think Marchan has more trade value today than O’Hoppe, so he’s at the top of my list. On Haseley, I don’t have any idea what his issues were personally, and probably none of my business, but I don’t think he’s back.

    1. I might be on an island alone … but … I just don’t get the group thinking of “let’s get rid of Roman Quinn”. This new FO seems to appreciate tools, and 80-grade speed doesn’t grow on trees. He’s set to make <1M. That's a very small price to pay for a defensive replacement/(game altering) pinch runner. If he gets hurt again, you just put him on the IL (10 day or 60 day). Not that big of a deal IMO.

       And BTW … I read Quinn is in Clearwater running on the back fields. Maybe Jim can verify that.

       1. matt … I like Muzziotti a lot (he’s #8 on my Phillies prospect list), but I just don’t think the club would want him sitting on the bench here instead of getting regular ABs at AA/AAA.

          1. You are probably right, Hinkie. I was a long time Roman fan, and I am just weary of his always being injured. But, I was also disappointed that his base running, despite his great speed, wasn’t great, and I was disappointed in his CF defensive play. I also know that I am guilty of wanting the team to make impactful moves, but I don’t want to trade any of my favorite prospects. Probably not a good way to play armchair GM! So, I balk at any mention of trading Painter, Abel, Rojas, Stott, etc., and I probably think Marchan, Medina and others will bring back more than they really will.

       2. Hinkie that is easy for me even healthy Quinn can’t hit…228/308/661 OPS one thing if he was 22-23 but he’s going to be 29

       3. Don’t get the love affair with Quinn. Yes, he’s fast but that’s basically all he brings to the table.

          Besides the regular injuries, he doesn’t hit for power, doesn’t get on base, he’s not even a particularly good base runner, and he will be 29 early in the 2022 season.

          Adding him to the roster to be a pinch runner wastes a 25-man roster spot that can be used for someone that’s a threat at the plate and doesn’t require someone else to get on base for him.

          1. The warranty on Quinn ran out about 2 years ago. I don’t think DD brings him back. I can see Gabe Kapler taking a flyer on him with all the veteran players he’s losing this winter.

          2. Well yeah, that’s right. You can’t have a marginal player like that who takes up a roster spot and will almost certainly be hurt 2/3 of the time and at the most in opportune times. He might have a good year one of these days – but I’m sure as heck not waiting around for that.

       4. Yes, I did above,

    2. I can see Haseley traded as a supplemental piece in a bigger trade. He’s another one on the Phillies witness protection program…nobody knows where he’s at, literally or figuratively. His development suddenly stopped and virtually disappeared into thin air. And with the word (from Jim if I’m not mistaken) a while back that it’s unlikely he ever plays at CBP again, at least in red pinstripes.

       1. That was just my speculation. However, here’s my thinking on the subject.

          Matt M. told us how vile the fans are toward his son, specifically out in CF. Home fans, supposedly. Matt said Mickey was tough enough to handle it. I suspect the same type of vocal criticism was directed at Haseley by the same a-hole fans who were riding Moniak.

          Moniak came straight from HS. He moved up the organization and experienced the increasing rudeness of jagoff fans as he moved up the organizational ladder before getting the full experience in Philadelphia.

          Haseley did 6 levels in 2.5 seasons and hit .266 in 2019 and .278 in 2020 (in front of zero fans). He came from UVA and I would surmise that he never experienced the type of bad fandom that exists in Philadelphia. He did well enough to avoid much criticism in Lakewood, Reading, Allentown, and 2019 Philly. (I know for a fact that the players have all sorts of epitaphs hurled at them at these locales. I know that in Clearwater, there is an announcement regarding the use of improper language. They enforce that much better than the spring training masks rule.)

          My assumption is that Haseley is a sensitive individual who buckled under the derision from people who think that the price of a ticket gives them the right to say whatever they want at a sporting event.

          When he returned from his hiatus, it appeared to me that anyone was promoted rather than Haseley. Bonifacio’s and Vierling’s promotions kinda support that. I think, if my assumption is correct, that the Phillies made a conscious choice to not expose Haseley to Philadelphia with the idea of trading him this offseason. Haseley would be better served in another city, one where he only has to come to Philadelphia once every three years.

          I hope he goes on to be a star for an appreciative fan base and the fans who forced the trade question why the FO can’t scout their own players.

          1. That was a mouthful, Jim. I think that paints us a pretty clear picture. Thanks

             1. Keep in mind that this is just speculation on my part based on Matt M.’s comments and the subsequent decision to not bring him up when the opportunity presented itself.

                And remember, he missed the final week of a season earlier with no explanation. That, however, was a private matter and the few guesses here weren’t close. But, there was a lot of anger(?) here that it occurred without explanation. I only bring it up because it was kept private, setting a precedent for the non-disclosure of an absence.

                1. I wish him well, sincerely. I hope Dombrowski can maximize his value, considering any trade talks will qualify his situation in the process. He certainly demonstrated athleticism while here. Solid CF glove, profiles as a complimentary piece to a lineup with power elsewhere.

                2. Don’t think this is unique to Philly. You hear the same type of complaints from guys in NY and Boston. Not to excuse the behavior.

                   And Philly has a laundry list of good players and really good players who for one reason or another couldn’t hit it off with the fan base here.

                   McNabb never got over being boo’d at the draft. The Lindros family hated it here and we could go on and on.

                   Don’t think Utley was ever boo’d and don’t recall too much booing at Harper thus far.

          2. Good terminology Jimbo “A-hole” fans in OF. Need to go to their place of business and act the same way to them.

    3. With Quinn’s injuries, I have his speed.

       1. 😁😂🤣 LOL, Denny. Even on one leg, Roman Quinn would run laps around you. It would be like the Flash racing a fan at Truist Park.

          1. Yeah a Braves fan. When I get off the DL I’ll set this up, lol.

          2. Love the freeze, Im my day, I’ll proudly proclaim that I could hold off the freeze for sure. No doubt. Even 5 years ago. OF COURSE, you’ll all just have to take my word for it. I’d have to train my arse of to just squeak out a 1 or 2 step “win” these days. I Definitely could not beat him without a head start at anyone pint in my life, but … these people be slow. It’s a good gimmick for the ballpark attendees, at least I get a kick out it

28. Callis…nice words for Stott.

    https://www.mlb.com/news/bryson-stott-phillies-prospect-afl-four-hits?t=arizona-fall-league-coverage

29. Haseley, Medina and Knapp for Kiermaier.

    1. That’s like asking, “do you have a dollar for 3 quarters?”

    2. Can we not aim higher than Kiermaier who if it weren’t for his defense is a below average offensive player career 98 OPS+? Sure you could do worse but we need serious upgrades not 32 y/o band aids

       Herrera is 2 years younger a tad better offensively 101 OPS+ and decent enough defensively for a few million less…

       1. I wouldn’t just gloss over that first line (“if it weren’t for his defense”). The Phillies are craving defense. It has a direct (negative) affect on the pitching staff. Keirmairer’s glove (and arm) would be a major upgrade in CF. He’d also deliver something else this team is in need of: leadership. For me, the chemistry with this group is off. It could use an infusion of clubhouse leadership (Keirmairer or Donaldson or Nelson Cruz).

          Listen … if DD could somehow pull off a deal to bring in Bryan Reynolds or Ramon Laureano, I’d be all for it, but that’s not likely. Keirmairer or JBJ are more realistic options. And I can’t see Dombrowski bringing back Odubel.

          1. If we’re going to acquire what is essentially a salary dump for the trading partner, I don’t want merely defensive excellence. I want someone who will bring something to the plate and basepaths. If the Phillies do go over the LTT, I doubt any of the surplus will be earmarked for such an acquisition.

30. Brewers GM Matt Arnold joins his boss David Stearns, Billy Beane and Theo Epstein in saying thanks, no thanks to interest from the New York Mess to be their POBO🤣 This will probably be my most gratifying bite of news today, until the hot stove gets fired up.

    1. I think the Mets may end up with Brian Sabean. And that wouldn’t be bad hire.

31. I don’t think Herrera is brought back, and his defense is definitely not decent enough. I don’t know what Kiermaier is worth prospect wise, but part of the incentive to move him is losing his salary. CF Defense is a priority, and KK or JBJ are vastly better. Offensive additions are not coming all over, so if we go that route for CF, we may add a bat at SS or 3B. Or LF. But 2 of CF, 3B, and SS are defense first additions, in my opinion.

    1. I’m okay with KK or JBJ in CF, provided Dombrowski also acquires a couple thumpers like Schwarber, Castellanos, Chapman or Bryant.

32. The Braves have gotten by with Duvall in CF since the trade deadline and he is not better in CF than Hererra. Granted, he is a stud when it comes to hitting and he plays great defense in the corners but he is not a CF.

    1. Sometimes I wonder if a strong team can allow a player like Duval to be a starting player. I have remembered players in the past on bad teams not breaking the lineup but teams/ players like Mets/ Buddy Harrelson, Orioles/Paul Blair, Cesar Geronimo/Reds, Bucky Dent/Yanks, Steve Yeager/Dodgers, name the first baseman/A’s in the 70’s, Mendoza/Pirates, etc. Composition of the Team dictates what type of player you can afford to carry.

       1. Denny ..Gene Tenace……As in the 70s.

          1. Great one. Would you want him as one of your top players to rely on? Complementary piece,yes.

             1. Did not realize it …but I think he was more than complimentary piece…almost a 50WAR career MLB player..hah.

                But I get your point.

33. But, ciada, the Braves overall D is so much better than ours. They can live with his hitting. We are subpar defensively at 5 of the 8 positions. So I wouldn’t favor a D only CF without a bat or 2 elsewhere, so I agree with mark. By the same standard, I want a CF who can hit very well if we only get a defensive only SS. So Marte, for example. With Simmons or Galvis, or Story/Simien with Kiermaier or JBJ.

34. What good is a 80 speed tool if the player is always hurt??? He never plays. The wind blows and he gets hurt. Why have Moniak on 40 man roster no one would pick him up. Nice to see the Braves rebuild their outfield and now may win World Series. Wish the Phils made some of those outfield trades wow AA should be exec of the year. We need outfielders. Think if we lose Harper for the season we would be done

35. Stott 0-3 today, O,hoppe 1-4. Damon Jones had one inning nothing but a HBP.

36. I have a question something we may never know the true answer to but I have a feeling on how it will be answered. I see the Braves pitching coach was with the Phils and didn’t do too well then went to the Braves and they are in the World Series. I seen Kapler who I never liked looked over matched managing the Phils and go to the Giants and make playoffs. Joe Girardi has won a World Series with the Yankees yes unfortunately it was against one of the best Phils teams in years. Wish we had talent like that team had.

    Ok here it comes my question. Some one mentioned Dusty Baker should have been Phils choice. I also apologize don’t remember who said it and maybe I had seen it somewhere else. I agree Dusty great manager and was a hello of a player and a great person. But what do you think would happen if Girardi was managing Astros and Baker was managing the Phils? Would Astros still have made the playoff or the World Series? Would the Phils have had a better record with Baker??? Just wondering ???

    1. Astros definitely still make the playoffs. World Series? Probably, but there’s an argument there since it took them 6 games to beat the BoSox, and one of the games they won was decided by one run (so Joe’s bullpen management may have cost them that one and sent them to game 7).

       But mostly, things would have been largely the same both for the Astros and Phils. Managers may be able to eek out a couple more wins over the course of the season based on player usage, but it’s still up to the players to performs. Houston has a ton of talent, and Philly has a bunch of mediocre options outside their stars.

    2. Rocky, I think the beginning of your premise is faulty. Rick Kranitz did do well here, and was pushed out because Klentak and Kapler thought Young was the ne IT guy, and did not want to lose him. Another in a long list of mistakes that they made. Kapler went to a situation in SF where Farhan Zaidi did a tremendous job putting the team together. By Kapler’s own admission, he learned a lot from mistakes in Philly, particularly his forgetting about the “human element” in the game, and spoke about his relationship with Buster Posey, and how he went to pull Cueto early in a game in the early part of the season, and was talked out of it. A do over, in my mind, of a dumb mistake with Nola in his first year here. Bottom line, for me, the talent rules at the end of the day. Managers can win a few games and lose a few games by their decisions, but it’s the players that determine a team’s fate. Kapler may get a lot of detractors here, but most of the issues were Klentak/MacPhail related, Some were self inflicted, but he deserves credit for acknowledging that and trying to fix some. The Astros talent would propel them regardless of the Manager.

    3. This is actually a great topic for healthy debate. Charlie Manuel was by no means a tactical genius, yet he (1) had enough talent on the field, though the pitching staff wasn’t stellar, and (2) he was smart enough to let his players play. He was mocked and ridiculed until the proof arose in the pudding, so to speak. Now, the industry philosophy has changed since those glory days, but there’s much to be said for having your squad operating on all cylinders, especially heading into the playoffs. IMO, managerial decisions become more integral in playoff games. So the question I would ask is, who would you rather have in game 7?

    4. Astros had positive impact from a couple rookies- seriously doubt that Girardi would of played them. Phillies young guys probably have more success under Baker- maybe enough to win the division. Can’t emphasize enough how Girardi is a detriment to player growth.

    5. What’s fairly common now a days is that front offices are managing the lineups and pitching match ups these days. FO’s are looking for managers that are happy to be there in a sense.

       Guys that will rah-rah their boys and follow the script sent down from upstairs.

       Phillies Kapler is more an indictment of how bad Klentak was and Giants Kapler highlights how much ahead of him Farhan Zaidi was…

       1. DMAR……the Giants were all about their star – aging veteran players, who had a rejuvenation…..from Posey on down, and who Zaidi kept in place and avoided trading, even though the Giants were less then a .500 team the previous four years..
          Gabe benefitted from their resurgence

          1. Could be proven wrong, but I think SFG will revert closer to their pre-2021 level next season, making the NL WEST a weaker division than the NL EAST. SD has some talented players but they aren’t exactly built to win right now. That leaves LAD as the class of their division. The Giants window of contention was more a ’93 Phillies anomaly than a legitimate, sustainable run.

             1. mark8:29…..that very well could be their fate.
                Pitching could be a dore spot for them….even resigning Gausman, and DeSclafani…Logan Webb appears to be their future number one.

37. Interesting article about 2016 redraft

    https://throughthefencebaseball.com/re-draft-edition-2016-mlb-draft/

    1. Hindsight is always 20/20, he I can’t fault the Phillies as much as I want to. You got to hit on an everyday player when you’re picking that high for that many years. Doesn’t feel like they did as well as they could’ve. Moniak has sometime, let’s see how he does this year. Bo is alredy in the majors, doing well, so yeah he is the pick all teams would have wanted. I’ve would’ve bombed it, I wanted Puk or Pint, I think Puk. No wasn’t even on my radar

    2. Dagger to the heart.
       Overall, the whole first round in 2016 has been al disappointment.
       Maybe 9 of the 41 first round selections, have come of age so far..
       Six of the nine were college guys…so they would be approaching their age27 season in 2022.

       https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?year_ID=2016&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round&from_type_jc=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0

       1. Romus – thanks for the first round. I had been meaning to check 2016 draft picks. From what I can see – after Quantrill (Hinkie’s favorite); maybe Kyle Lewis, the only quality player is Will Smith at # 32 – the Dodgers’ catcher. The rest of the draft was pretty much a bust. In retrospect, Mickey M doesn’t look all that bad – even as a 4th OF. Even Gavin Lux – mid/round pick looks like he’s headed down the Kingery path.

          Then – only other thing I recall was Puk being the Phillies possible # 1 pick. That poor fellow has been injured the entire past 5 years. When he finally appeared this year for the A’s he tripped over a rosin bag and knocked out – yet again. He makes the All Injured Quinn team. Now that would be a fun activity – Sixto Sanchez would be part of the starting rotation too ; Buxton in CF ? Yankees Hicks in the OF too…

          1. Yep, the only thing Chip Kelly was right about was availability being the most important ability. Absence from the field brings nothing to any team. That’s why I don’t want a Buxton/Donaldson trade. Why take on both JD’s uber salary and Buxton’s injury risk together in the same deal? Unless, of course, there were other variables like legit prospects in return…

             1. Only ability needed is availability.

          2. RU….that is comically sad …’tripping over the rosin bag’

          3. RU…some quality players were drafted from the 2nd thru the 5th…Biever, Burnes, Reynolds, Biggio, Lopez, Carlson, Murphy just to name a few besides Bichette..
             Phillies took Cole Irwin in the 5th round….they seem to do well at that pick.

38. Yeah the luck of Philadelphia when they have the number one it’s a weak draft. Lol I was wrong at that draft too I liked Puk and Groom

39. Also think about this fact. When ever it’s a brother or a son of a great player the Phils end up with the bad one. Like Gary Matthews Jr and Mike Maddox I know there are some more too. So hey they couldn’t get Bo or Biggio in 2016. Was Vald Jr an international free against? Lol Wow those kids can play and their dads were great too. If only the Phils had them.

    1. Rocky…I was sold on Miguel Tejada’s son prior to 2020….Mig Jr…..he had a PED issue with the ChiSox when he was 16 and they let him go….Phillies scooped him up….6’1″, 195lbs with great raw talent….arm, size, strength, speed and glove.
       But he could not hit a curveball it seems and they released him last year..

    2. Yes, the Phillies have always had the wrong brother, Torre, DiMaggio, Giambi, Leiter for some odd reason.
       https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/national-siblings-day-phillies-wrong-brother

    3. Just so you know … the Phillies drafted Cavan Biggio out of HS (2013). However, Biggio wanted to go to Notre Dame to play with his older brother.

       1. Well Hinkie, at least the Philies could have drafted his older brother.
          Traditions are things to be espoused.

    4. Rocky – don’t leave Vince DiMaggio off your “lesser” brother list. He wasn’t even # 4 in the family hierarchy and there were only 3 boys !!!

40. Part of the decision was that the team wanted to overpay for Gowdy in the 2d Rd., so that impacted their decision. Had saving # with pick1.1 had not been part of their plan, I don’t know which direction they might have gone. Of course, Gowdy was injured, and I don’t know if he will ever fully recover, but that was a big part of the team’s decision. I still have hopes for Mickey, but clearly remember the Puk vs. Groome debates on this site.

41. Marcus Semien will not be coming cheaply:

    https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/marcus-semien-hires-boras-corporation-to-represent-him-in-free-agency-714459.html

    1. He’s used the pillow contract to perfection. This is his one big chance to cash in – it’s literally the chance of a lifetime and he needs to milk it for all it’s worth. Who can blame him?

    2. Boras taking on his representation. That’s not a bad thing in our case. Again, I’m on the Semien train because even once Stott is ready and they believe he’s a SS, at least for now, MS can still play 2b and Segura could move to 3b. This is a situation better suited for Dombrowski to then forget about 3b for now, and go sign a slugger like Schwarber. I think Semien can be had for 5/$100M in today’s climate. Schwarber maybe 4/$60M….then acquire via trade a defensive CF for a relatively cheap package of prospects.

       1. Semien @ 5/$100M?
          Not if Boros has his say.
          The years maybe…but not the AAV.

          1. Romus – Boras’ impact, understood…but MLB owners aren’t chomping to pay post-30 year olds like they once did. More AAV on a shorter length? Maybe….say 3/$75M.

             1. Boros knows what the owner want ….ideally, shorter impactful prime years and less AAV.
                He will concede the years …but not the AAV….or vice versa…lesser AAV but a longer contract.
                For Semien at age 31….he will look for the 5 years minimum, because anything shorter means he is at a big disadvantage later trying to negotiate anything but a one or two year deal in his mid-30s.
                I think Boros will think to start the bidding at 5 years but at $28M AAV -$140M.
                My guess he ends up at $130M…with a 6th year option/buy out of $10M

                1. Don’t think it’ll go quite that high with 4 other big ticket shortstops on the market. Maybe if he was one of two.

                   I predict Semien, Schwarber and Knebel as our free agent signings. Trade for glove first CF, and acquire a couple glue guys. Bamboo Brad is a good bet to return in a lesser role than he played in ’21.

42. Cardinal’s minor league pitcher…bitten by bear, in Wisconsin, on deer hunting trip.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/cardinals/2021/10/28/cardinals-minor-league-pitcher-dalton-roach-bitten-bear/8582747002/

    1. Romus, crazy bear encounter

43. Good scouting and development story on Austin Riley. Not a Philly, but still an interesting story for those who love baseball.

    https://www.mlb.com/news/austin-riley-s-path-from-pitcher-to-braves-slugger?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

    1. Philies were one of the teams, in on him he says, as a hitter, …..if he were there at 48, the Phillies may have taken him ilo of Scott Kingery.
       Hard to say…HS vs college…..the Phillies under Ruben at the time went in a different direction.

44. Let me know if anyone thinks this is a Dave Dombrowski type trade….

    PHILLIES GET
    CF Kevin Kiermaier – age 31, $12M ’22, $13M ’23, FA’24
    C Mike Zunino – age 30, $7M ’22, FA ’23
    RHP Brent Honeywell – 26 yr old high ceiling depth for starting rotation, drafted 2014, encouraging signs of recovery from early season injury despite AAA inconsistency.

    RAYS GET
    CF Adam Haseley
    C Rafael Marchan
    RHP Christian Magowan
    LHP Ethan Lindow

    1. I personally would pass.
       The Rays have to give a little more youth as part of the return….maybe add in a Cole Wilcox or JJ Goss then I’d think about it.
       Honeywell cannot throw his patented screwball anymore since the TJ surgery from what I understand…at least that is what I saw two years ago.

    2. Ok, then TB should add another prospect in the #8-#12 range. Don’t think it would be a deal breaker for them.

    3. Do you really want to trade with “the team behind the curtain,” who has all the answers, all the time in the land of OZ ? I think DD likes Kiermaier but also wants a fielder who can hit more that KK does – he needs an on base batter, a solid fielder, and a good bat. My guess is he goes all in on Starlin Marte. If I am going to spend 13 million I would rather put that towards Marte’s free agent salary. I think DD will build on this team’s strength and get more pitching – at least a 6th starter with some veteran presence – not Verlander though. He could also trade Gibson + a young pitcher (Medina) + a younger flyer pitcher for another young pitcher – say Merrill from Arizona ?

       1. Getting the pieces he wants should be DD’s aim. Trading the likes of Haseley and Medina, probably a catcher like Marchan, is more than likely this winter. I would not shy from trading with Tampa simply because of their reputation for executive competence. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I’m fine with getting Kiermaier to play CF so long as Dombrowski signs a couple of potent bats – Semien and Schwarber would be my prime targets. Solidifying the defense, especially up the middle, is as important as any other achievement this off season, because defense improves the pitching. But I do agree with you that DD will acquire another veteran starting pitcher.

45. GG finalists named today. Wheeler and Realmuto are finalists, and no one else from us. I know that is a big shock to everyone! mark, If Romus is correct, and I believe he most often is, then I need another good prospect. Haseley and Marchan are exactly who I would guess is part of a deal like that. Kiermaier is, again, a GG finalist and would certainly help us in CF, at a less than exorbitant price tag. Is this a DD type trade? I think so, although not a blockbuster that I think may also be coming. Again, me personally, would want a Honeywell with his screwball.

46. To be honest I am excited to see how DD transforms the team. I do think it needs a lot of work. Hopefully he will be creative and make things happen. When do you all think lives will start to happen??? How long after World Series ? I can’t wait.

    1. Rocky…what is complicating things this year…..with the free agency, which in turn effects also trades that a team may want to make, is the CBA.
       Teams and MLBPA do not know how things will be set in stone….or worse case scenario, a stoppage which is a real possibility this year.
       So Dave D. may take a little longer navigating thru these barriers/ordeals in order to accomplish trades and movement to restructure the roster.

47. Meant things are going to happen. Dam spell check I type too fast on my phone.

48. Rocky, I also can’t wait for things to start. But, the whole CBA uncertainty may put a damper on things moving quickly. I hope not, I am really looking forward to it.

49. Hot Stove Baby !!!!

50. Only Phillies to play today in AFL were Muzziotti, went 1-4 and Erik Miller, 1 inning, 2 hits, 0 ER and 1 K.

51. If you find yourself wrong about prospects a lot (ie thinking they would be good and turn out to be not good) or just generally want to learn more about “advanced metrics”, then watch this video. It is a master class on the right metrics to use when judging a pitcher’s stats. By the way, the same can be applied to hitters and batting average. Note he is a pitcher in the Rays org so this is how the Rays look at stats.

    1. Thanks for posting, v1. I’ve always been a believer in FIP/xFIP when evaluating a pitcher (especially starters). K% and inherited base runners are great measuring sticks for judging relievers.
       I’ve recently been researching some options for the Phillies this winter. I’ll probably post something after the WS ends & the offseason begins (if not sooner). I used the above metrics in my research.

       1. Yes, you are great at looking past the old school stats.

52. Bob Melvin will be the new manager of the San Diego Padres, source confirms to ESPN. He’s signing a three-year deal and will leave Oakland, as @AJCassavell reported. Melvin is regarded as one of the best managers in baseball, and he’s heading to manage Fernando Tatis Jr and more.

    — Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) October 29, 2021

    Bob Melvin was earning about $4 million a year and the #A’s are slashing payroll. Tremendous hire by the #Padres

    — Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) October 29, 2021

    .

    This (wanting to keep their payroll under control) is why the A’s make a logical trade partner with Dave Dombrowski this winter.

    1. Hinkie, besides Chapman, who might you target from the A’s roster or farm?

       1. I love Ramon Laureano. Maybe Dombrowski could take on Stephen Piscotty (and his contract) to help get a deal done. David Forst would probably become even more generous if Dombrowski could find it in his heart to take Elvis Andrus off the A’s hands.
          Sean Manaea could be “for sale”. I’d like to have him. And … of course … there’s Matt Chapman. I’ve always felt Forst would be open to a Bohm ➡ Chapman swap, but it doesn’t seem like Dombrowski would do that.
          Forst would want (cheap) young guys, who are MLB ready (or near ready). Nick Maton is a guy that might interest Oakland. They need a SS (especially if they can unload Andrus). Simon Muzziotti is another guy they might be interested in. Oakland could even be a good landing spot for Adam Haseley as an extra piece in a bigger deal.

          1. Who would you offer for Chapman, Piscotty, Laureano and Manaea?

          2. BTW … I’m not saying Maton and Muzziotti could land Laureano. They could be part of a bigger deal. It would probably take Ranger Suarez to make a trade for Laureano. Personally, I wouldn’t rule out trading Suarez in a deal where the Phillies get 3 years of Laureano. IMO, Ranger will never have another season close to his 2021 campaign.

             1. Okay, I don’t think any pitcher could have another season where he would get to close to Ranger’s 2021 campaign – it’s arguably one of the greatest statistical seasons of any pitcher since Bob Gibson. That’s not a fair measuring stick because nobody but Jacob deGrom could be expected to pitch like that again.

                But, to me, you don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. We don’t know yet whether Suarez could develop into a reliable 1 or 2. Suarez has unique poise and, when you watched his starts carefully he, not only has very good stuff and more pitches than people realize, he has plus plus command. Like a Tommy Glavine or Roy Halladay, Suarez lives on the edge of the strike zone, Put it all together and he’s a guy you keep unless you get a package you just can’t turn down.

                Again, unless it’s a deal of a decade, I think you keep Ranger and hold onto him for dear life. Let’s not outthink ourselves. With even the slightest bit of luck this team has a very strong 1-3 in its rotation. Let’s build off that.

             2. Would anyone do …
                A’s get: (4 years of) Ranger Suarez, (6 years? of) Nick Maton, (5 years of) Adam Haseley, Simon Muzziotti, and Griff McGarry
                Phillies get: (3 years of) Ramon Laureano, (1 year of) Sean Manea, (1 year of) Elvis Andrus)

                1. Ranger throws two pitches (FB & CH). IMO, it’s going to be very difficult for him to make it through the NL a second year in a row w/o a reliable third pitch.
                   I might be wrong. catch, you may be right. But I gotta’ call it like I see it.
                   Believe me, I’ll be happy to be/hope I am wrong in this case.

                2. Laureano is a sexy player with LOTS of shadows. Pass. I would think about your proposal if Bohm and Chapman were added….but even that’s iffy.

                3. That’s the genius of Ranger. He doesn’t only throw 2 pitches. He throws 4 pitches and three of them are difficult for the hitter to pick out. He throws a change-up, slider and sinker in addition to his fastball. What encouraged me was, as the year went on and hitters should, theoretically, have been catching up to him, Ranger just hit another gear and continued to pitch even better.

                   I’m telling you, we are asking for some bad cosmic MoJo if we trade this guy.

                   The baseball Gods will be angry.

                4. Even if you knock some of the luster off Laureano’s bat (because of the PED situation), there is no denying the authenticity of the glove and arm.

                5. And … you don’t think Sean Manea could replace/upgrade Ranger as the team’s SP3?

                   .

                   Remember … the Phillies should be all in for the 2022/2023 seasons.

                6. Much to much to give up for those players. A’s would have to add Chapman and Pick even then would have to think about it

                7. Nah, I’m not buying it. They need to be more creative than this and need to keep Ranger as a cheap stud. The model of acquiring players a year or two from FA is going to kill us and render us a one hit wonder. Ranger is great now and for the future – he’s exactly the type of player we want to retain. If we want to find some other package for Laureano, I’d be interested – such as one including Marchan, who, to my mind, is highly likely to be traded.

                8. While I appreciate all your thought experiments/trade proposals, I can’t take this seriously with Suarez involved. He’s not going anywhere. The Phillies can get an excellent defensive CF without including a pitcher they’re counting on for years at a cost-effective price.

                9. So, I would want Chapman and Manaea as a #4 with Eflin on the shelf for part of ’22. No such thing as too much starting pitching, aye? I’d offer a package which would include Haseley, Marchan and if Forst forced the issue by insisting on Bohm, since the A’s presumably want major league ready talent, then DD demand they kick in some serious cash OR a couple prospects.

             3. Ranger isn’t going anywhere. Yes, his 2021 season was an extreme case of hitting one’s ceiling on a scale of 1-10, but if he’s a 7-8 from here on, and a lefty to boot? Nah, I’ll keep him…

53. I don’t trade Ranger, at all. Maybe he doesn’t have the year he had last year, but he is a SP, one that we actually developed here, cost controlled, and exactly the kind of player we want to keep here. And, lefthanded! Now, Hinkie, maybe I am not as excited about Laureano as you are, but I pass immediately on your trade proposal.

54. Do not want to trade Ranger.

55. Don’t want Ranger to be a stranger…no trade. Don’t care if there is regression. Like selling the stock Microsoft at $ 200 and praying you’re right. Can’t afford a miss.

56. Is this good or bad?????

    https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/rangers-hire-josh-bonifay-farm-director-phillies

    1. Yes that’s a good thing….Bonifay can ask Dombrowski for the talent he overvalued as head of the farm. And DD can fleece him. So yeah….

       1. Exactly. Bonifay is one of the authors of this mess. The fact that the Rangers – and not Dodgers, Giants, Rays, Cardinals or As – signed him tells you what you need to know. Good riddance!

          1. Come on man!
             Josh Bonifay had all of one full summer ball with the prospects…..2019, and 2020 was more or less cancelled.
             Whatever shortcomings he had, which Dave D recognized, I seriously doubt obe of them was …he was ‘author of this mess’.

             BTW….He already worked for the Rangers 5 years ago, so it was a reunion with Daniels.

             1. I know we had the pandemic. I get it. But he was there all of 2019 and all of 2021 (and had 2020, to figure things out in relative peace) and in 2021 our prospects were, almost to a man, underperforming in disturbing ways and the word that was leaked was that the whole system was a mess, with nobody on the same page and the analytics people fighting with those favoring traditional instruction. If that’s not the responsibility of the director of player development, I don’t know what is.

                1. And you misquoted me. I said it he was ONE of the authors of the mess and not THE author of the mess. I’m sure it wasn’t all his fault (how could it be?), but he I see him as part of the problem and not one of the solutions.

                2. Many people are moved out, or they moved on, because of philosophical differences with their boss.
                   That is the boss’ prerogative to make the change.
                   IMO, he inherited the mess….stemming from the MacPhail/Klentak apparatus.

57. I don’t understand all the trade requests/free agent acquisition hopes. Yes we need to add maybe one big part, but you cannot build/sustain success by continuing to have a top 5 budget with poor contracts. I’m a firm believer that at least 3-4 starting position players and most of your BP need to be low priced home grown talent. So I am definitely not trading Ranger, I play Bohm at 3B to start and consider moving to LF. If we have to replace him with a FA with a bad contract, we are 2-3 yrs further removed from success. He has to be given the chance. For the same reasons I give CF to Moniak/Vierling/Hasely and see what happens. I think their D would be acceptable , and they can’t hit much worse than Kiermeyer. I don’t believe the upgrade Kiermeyer gives us is worth any top 10 prospects. If we think Stott is up this year, I spend my $$ on SP, a closer and look for a 1yr contract at SS to replace Didi. Segura is my 2B until Stott ready, then I move him at trade deadline. Hoskins is still cost effective to me, and he can’t be moved until we are sure new CBA does not include a DH. Loved someone’s idea here that Hoskins/Bohm/ Realmuto make a great 1b/DH platoon with Marchan replacing Knapp as backup. We can’t continue to pay playoff caliber salary for a .500 team, as we have done for 5 yrs. All you get older, with a tiny window of opportunity, and contracts you can’t move. We are not 1-2 pieces away, we have to accept that fact and try to field a younger/cheaper roster.

58. Tony, I have Vierling and Mickey platooning in LF. I disagree about CF. They do not give us anywhere close to the D of Kiermaier. I think we add in FA, but probably not at the top of the scale. And yes, we need younger players to actually be good. Bohm starts at 3B. If we sign a FA in CF, then a defensive SS, or vice versa. But we are going to have to go to FA for some of what we need. And it doesn’t need to be another $300M contract.

    1. The left fielder will be a proven bat.

       1. Agree. Schwarber, Castellanos (opt out likely)…Dombrowski’s reputation demands he’ll be aggressive.

59. So, not asking for buy in, just asking for the “why” …. Neris according to Gameday (which is all I have) was hitting 95mph on his fastball, and definitely has good offspeed pitches. Why is he not closer material? He was arguably the most successful at that role we have had for some years,and that is despite not having a set role most of the time.

    1. I haven’t had heart trouble so far in my life, by God’s grace, but using Neris as a closer will put many of us in cardiac arrest. Even he can’t believe he got out of his own jams at times.

    2. Neris’ overall metrics were influenced a great deal by his body of work in the middle innings of games in August and September.

       https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=nerishe01&year=2021&t=p

       I think they realize his closer days may have come to its conclusion…..except maybe in an emergency.

60. Hi Romus.
    Long time off the trail.
    For me it is simply that Neris puts too many runners on base and then gives up a key hit.
    You have to admire that he always takes the ball.

61. Here is a question for you Romus. This may have been addressed by someone already.
    I try to read the comments but I miss some. Has a team ever had 4 starters in the World Series that were not on their team in say at least Mid July? Not sure when each of the pickups were made. The Braves just did a great job on all 4 or were just really lucky this go round. I have not heard it addressed during either of the games but I have not watched games in full either night.
    Thanks.

    1. Don…welcome back.
       Good question.
       I cannot recall it ever happening….and all OFers to boot.
       Of course they did have splits going against a few Perdrson and Rosario vs LHP.
       So they had to ensure Soler and Duvall could have reasonable splits vs at least RHPs

       What I found interesting…..with McCullers out..Greinke and Odorizzi???
       I think the Astros have gone with an all Latin-born WS starting rotation….not sure I ever saw that before.

62. Here’s Mitch’s top 20.

    So the annual Phillies Media Minor League Survey is set to be released Sunday afternoon at noon. This year we had 18 voters in the survey. Each voter is allowed to release their personal ballot as they wish ahead of the final results, so here's my Top 20 Phillies prospect ranking pic.twitter.com/qlE3Jb7cpG

    — Mitch Rupert (@Mitch_Rupert) October 29, 2021

    1. For heaven’s sake, where’s Alexeis Azuaje?

       1. Steve … I have Azuaje at #18 on my list. But, in the end, prospect lists are really just opinions … and you know what they say about opinions.

          1. I hear you Hinkie. Alexeis just outside my Top 10. Admittedly aggressive perhaps, But his U.S. debut is hard to ignore even if only a small sample. His strikeout rate says as much as his slash line. He clearly wasn’t challenged in the FCL. He’s definitely a breakout candidate.

    2. Funny Micky still in top 20 wow

       1. I think Moniak has had some pretty encouraging minor league seasons the past two years. He had no business seeing a major league pitch in 2020 and 2021 – he was no where near ready. But his minor league rates are trending positive. If he’s a .250 hitter w 20+ home runs and above average corner defense, he will be usable. He turns 24 next May and will be repeating AAA. I’m hoping for a marked improvement over his .746 OPS in 2020 (his OPS was above .800 as late as Aug 5).

       2. Rocky – how is it funny? Mickey is plenty good. You ever think Phillies lack of player development and the fact he’s been yo yo’d from aaa to mlb, might have stunted some growth?

          I am believer that we are a huge leap from Mickey this year

    3. Micah Ottenbreit is a pleasant surprise in the top 20…I’d have RHP Cristian Hernandez in there myself.

       1. I think my biggest double take was McGarry at 7. That’s an awfully high opinion of him after very limited experience.

          Not saying it’s right or wrong, just unexpected.

          1. McGarry is #7 on my list, too. His “stuff” in incredible. It’s going to come down to his control. Can he throw enough Ks to stay a SP, or is he a future back end reliever?

             Griff McGarry is a freaking warrior!! Finger was bleeding all game and he still punched out 10!! We got a pitchers dual going on right now! 0-0 going into bottom of 8! pic.twitter.com/ZrX9GsK4yR

             — 11Point7: The College Baseball Podcast 🎙 (@11point7) June 13, 2021

             Griff McGarry, Filthy Slider. 😷 pic.twitter.com/NurbxpVBWk

             — Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja) June 22, 2021

             1. Control is a very big question mark to have for a top-10 prospect. But that can just come down to ranking philosophy and a weak farm system. I personally viewed him as a reliever, but for those who think he’s a starter long term it’s a fair ranking for sure. If the thinking is he’s a reliever and STILL #7, then that’s pretty concerning in regards to the strength of our prospect depth.

                I hope he continues to rise up the rankings, though. He’s got a very good baseball name to go along with the stuff.

          2. DanK….he may be that rare exceptional college guy who blooms after he is given a new role from his college days.
             Guys like Jacob deGrom…….as an example.

             1. I certainly hope so. I’m just not overly enthusiastic about it based on our track record of success with prospects in general…

                I know we’ve hit on a few, but it certainly feels like every time we have a pitcher with incredible stuff but questionable command/control, he goes on to flame out and not even be a serviceable ‘pen piece.

                But hey, we’re getting new people in charge of the young guys. Maybe it’s the start of an incredible run of player development successes. We can dream, right?

                1. Yes…..a dream weaver.
                   And I know the drill with pitchers….TINSTAAPP.
                   If not the command/control aspect that derails many, then there is the injury part.
                   Not unique to the Phillies.
                   Just got to keep reloading.

63. Last night the Braves started, Ian Anderson, pitched 5 innings without allowing a hit. He was taken out after 76 pitches. What makes his manager good is that the bullpen came through with 4 innings of 2 hit 0 runs. If the bullpen implodes the manager sucks. Players make the manager most of the time!

    1. I dunno, I still think it was a dumb decision. I’d want as many of my relievers to be as rested as possible for games when my starter ISN’T completely nullifying the opposition. Anderson is coming into maybe one more game this season. Your relievers potentially have four more to go.

       I’m not saying keep him out there after 120 pitches just to go for the no-no, but if he’s rolling you can at least let him go until he’s slowing down.

       But you’re right that the vast majority of people don’t second guess something when it turns out favorably.

       1. Yea guess it’s dumb that’s why they are in World Series and we are sitting home. Gee here is a thought maybe they know they lost a pitcher with a broken leg and have to take that in consideration. Also gee maybe that’s what a good bill pen looks like. A good bill pen you can depend on? A bull pen that does its job instead of a record number of blown saves. Just a thought.

          1. Rocky…pls refrain from calling it a ‘bullpen’…that is degrading to the bulls.
             PETA wants it referred to as the ‘arm barn’…:)

             1. Farewell To Arms Barn for Phillies.

                1. very good Denny!

             2. Lol Romus please you’re so woke lol

                1. Rocky…you bet I am ‘awoke’….just had my brew and eggs this morning.

          2. You’re right, fatigue doesn’t exist for good pitchers. By the way, Anderson was one of the ones who could have helped cover for the loss of Morton by PITCHING MORE INNINGS.

             You know who came in after Morton in game 1? Minter, Jackson, Matzek, and then Smith.

             You know who came in after Anderson? Minter, Jackson, Matzek, and then Smith.

             You seeing how it might be an issue to overuse them unnecessarily? They’ve been excellent in the postseason thus far. But they’re still relievers; fickle at best. They’re also perpetually one pitch away from injury. The same can be said about Anderson, but as I mentioned he has ONE more appearance left (maybe), whereas the other four may be needed in FOUR more games.

             By the way, if you think teams can’t get into the World Series in spite of sub-optimal (or even dumb) managerial decisions, I’ve got some news for you. The Indians sent MICHAEL MARTINEZ to the plate down 1 run with 2 outs in game 7 of the World Series against the Cubs. If you don’t remember what happened, Martinez grounded out to give it to the Cubs. Shocking, I know, that a career .194 hitter didn’t get on base. But there you have it.

             Even great managers make some bone headed decisions sometimes. They even work out occasionally. That doesn’t mean they’re exempt from criticism.

       2. Concerning early exits for SPs & using openers: yesterday, Buster Olney wrote a good piece (ESPN +) on why (and how) MLB will take steps to phase the practice out of the game.

          Why the end of the opener strategy is coming to baseball https://t.co/68xmocXCOB

          — Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) October 29, 2021

          .

          In a nutshell … It lengthens games, leads to more “three true outcomes”, and suppresses offense. MLB may limit amount of pitchers allowed on active rosters (13 in 2022 & then 12 or even 11 in future years), more stringent rules regarding promotions from and demotions to the minor leagues, and tying the DH to your SP (when you remove your SP, you also lose your DH for the rest of the game).

          1. I’m very in favor of tying the DH to the player and not the position. You can’t have the same pinch runner for your 1B every time he gets on base (I know it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison). There should absolutely be some kind of ramification for removing your pitchers, in my opinion.

             As for limiting the number of pitchers, I worry more about that. Because then you’re just one rainy day away from an unnecessary injury (getting delayed after warming up, then needing to come back in, for example) or position players on the mound. It would also encourage more position players on the mound in blowouts, because who’s going to waste a relievers availability for that if you only have 11?

             There’s certainly a balance to be had, though, and it’s a conversation worth having.

             1. I’m on board with tying the DH to the SP, but not relievers after the initial change.

                As for roster limitations and maxing pitchers, I’ve always thought that MLB should set 30 man rosters and managers can have 25 dress for each game. I realize there would be player union implications but would relieve the skipper’s constraints, considering pitchers are now handled more like ceramic vases, nevermind the fact they’re on the IL increasingly more than ever.

       3. .Well, it is very impressive that the Braves manager would make that decision to pull a pitcher with a no-hitter,, because everyone here probably remembers how Kapler got pillaried on Phuture Phillies when he took out Nola in the 7th and the “arm barn” imploded. But, it can’t be uniques, right, because there ARE combined-pitcher no hitters, and him not wanting IA to go through the line-up a fourth time, when he had already through more than 75 pitches… doesn’t seem like that Wacky a decision. At that rate, what, he would have needed 130 pitches to get through 9-innings full?

          1. Like I mentioned, I wasn’t suggesting he run Anderson out there for another 50 pitches. It’s not even about the no-hitter. It’s about allowing your SP to go deeper in the game knowing you just lost one of your starters for the series, and allowing your bullpen some extra rest when you’ll likely need to lean heavily on them.

             What’s strange wasn’t taking a pitcher out when the no-hitter was intact (as you mentioned, combined no-hitters are a thing; granted they make up just over 5% of all no-hitters, so I guess it IS technically still strange). It was taking him out so EARLY during it. Of all the combined no-no’s in MLB history, NONE of them involved a SP coming out before 80 pitches (with the exception of injury and one ejection to the Babe). In fact, only one other one had the SP come out before NINETY pitches. And those came in situations where the manager had no concerns about tiring the bullpen. You can argue the Angels pulled their SP in 2019 much earlier, but that was a bullpen game after the tragic death of Skaggs.

             So basically, I don’t care about the no-hitter. It’s a nice accolade, but it’s not what’s important. What’s important is winning the series. And it’s easy to say they won the game, so it was the right choice. But he unnecessarily taxed his bullpen. But not just that, he used the SAME EXACT PITCHERS that came on in relief of Morton. Guess who blew last nights game? Minter, one of those pitchers.

             We have no way of knowing if things go differently in either game had he not brought in Minter (or had he just let Anderson go longer). But is it possible bringing him in for game 3 had a negative effect on game 4? Absolutely. It gave the Astros more opportunities to get used to him and may have fatigued him. I’m not saying that’s definitely what happened. It can just as easily be attributed to blind luck and relievers being relievers. I’m also not saying Snitker made the worst decision I’ve ever seen.

             All I’m saying is if you don’t need your bullpen pitchers, don’t use them. And at that moment, he didn’t need them.

64. To the position player pitching aspect – I believe most teams are going to look for position players who can also pitch – if needed. This will be the new “thing” and way to get around the limit on pitchers. I am surprised Tampa doesn’t already have 5 position players who throw above 97 right now. Actually they probably do.

    1. Phillies drafted a few position players who were college pitchers….Haseley and Hall …for example.
       Team can do that with college drafted players…..they have been doing it for three years in most cases against quality competition ……but HS drafted players probably not so much, though quite a few pitchers in HS played a position in the field.

65. I look at the Top Prospects List and have a good feeling about this coming year. I see some genuine talent, and was glad to see Baylor crack the Top 20 because I have always liked him. It’s a fun to exercise to see how all of you rank the guys. I may have Painter ahead of Abel, but still working on mine.

    1. Me too. With sufficient coaching and development, we could have a top 10-12 system within 2 years. I also give Painter the nod over Abel, whose floor may be higher, but IMO Painter has the ceiling. Baylor may not be top 20 (top 30, yes) but having some depth at SS behind Stott, Garcia and Casey Martin makes him or Martin a viable trade chip for a major league upgrade, if not a star addition. I’m very excited to see Rupert have Viars as high as he does (#15), even over Ortiz (#16). There’s not much overall depth in the organization but hidden gems like Azuaje might emerge to crack our top 10 this time next year.

66. I think we’ll be making a trade for a LF/CF and signing a free agent for LF/CF. One of each because we can’t afford two FAs. I wish we’d sign one of the star SS (my preference is Seager but Story would be fine also) but I don’t think they will. I think they’re stuck with Didi and will bring back Galvis and hope Stott hits his way up mid season. We also have to get 3 RPs for 7/8/9 innings. I think we’ll sign 2 FA RPs and trade for 1.
    I think one of the catchers will be traded and I have a hunch Rojas might be gone too (if they like Y Garcia). Rojas would get us back someone good.
    Also, there’s zero chance that Vierling/Moniak is our starting LF to begin the season.
    Our top 20 list doesn’t look bad, there’s potential talent on there but few of them have actually put up good numbers so far. Stott and OHoppe have and Ortiz broke out a little this year but that’s it. Any hitters hit over 300? Any pitchers with sub 3.00 era?

    1. Agree with just about everything Murray just posted. But I’m hoping DD refrains from trading Rojas. He’s in my top tier (Painter/Abel/Rojas/Stott), and am hoping they continue matriculating thru the Phillies system. I’d only include them in a deal for a young, difference making player under multiple years of team control (someone like Bryan Reynolds).

       1. Hinkie……I feel the same with you on Rojas.
          I would hope Dave D if he decides to move him….gets back something of meaningful return….Reynolds as you mention, or even Marte from the DBacks..

          1. Could they trade for and sign a Marte? Get both? That would be interesting. It would take Rojas plus a pitcher like Miller to get K Marte. He could play LF, CF or eventually 2B in 2023 if Stott can stick at SS. Reynolds is obviously a great choice also. I’m out on Kiermier though, can’t hit enough.

             1. Yeah both Marte’s in the OF may be a good proposition for 2022 success.
                Losing Rojas, however, could be something the Philies may regret in 2 or 3 years from now.

       2. I get the sense from Dombrowski’s history of moving and shaking, making trades is his bigger splash. Any team with the money can sign free agents. DD gets high on the blockbuster 🤗

    2. Bohm
       Crouse
       Gregorious

       to Twins for

       Buxton
       Donaldson
       TRogers

    3. Bohm, Crouse, Gregorious
       to Twins for
       Buxton, Donaldson, TRogers

67. I am with the people who don’t want to ravage the pharm system. We need to develop the young guys. Hey I am In Virginia seen Jamari Baylor in HS he is very good. What about moving him to CF? Just a thought What do you guys feel about that???

    1. I hear you but this team is not going over the cap. That means they have to make trades to be competitive next year. They’ll sign some FAs but not all and not the big ones.

68. Murray, you and Hinkie may very well be right, but I see LF as a young player platoon. Assuming 3B is Hinkie, we need a SS, I think Didi is done here, a CF, a Closer and another 2 BP arms. I don’t see LF being another FA. So, I still predict Vierling/Moniak or Haseley as our LF, but really leaning Mickey’s way.

    1. Speculation From NLBTR on the Yankees ss needs:
       “With this in mind, it’s possible the Yankees would choose to spend their money on other areas and instead only acquire a shorter-term option to play shortstop. Trading for a player like Paul DeJong or old friend Didi Gregorius, for example, would provide New York some flexibility for the future, even if such a move would seem like a stopgap measure for a team trying to win immediately. The Yankees could try to have it both ways, and sign one of the big shortstops this winter and then explore a possible position change (i.e. Seager to third base or Semien to second base) should Volpe and/or Peraza force the issue in a couple of seasons.”

       ……if they want Didi back, I am sure Dave D will accommodate.

69. As much respect as I have for Hinkie, I can’t play him at 3B! I think Bohm gets the shot. Some how, DD moves Didi even if he eats most of the contract. There will be a new SS in town.

    1. No problem. I wouldn’t put me at 3B either, matt.

70. I was away for several days and fell behind on my PhuturePhillies reading, but here is a comment about the length of games: A Baseball Prospectus study shows that time between pitches has added 25 minutes to games since 2004. That’s a lot of time. And it might be even more now since the study was done several years ago.

    Simply, baseball is declining rapidly in popularity. Even the most dedicated fans — those commenting on this site — say they can’t make it through a nine inning game. TV ratings are a fraction of what they used to be.

    Something drastic needs to be done to cut down on the time of games. Impose a pitch clock. Stop batters from stepping out of the box for an ungodly long routine. Be ready to play.

    It might not be popular with the MLBPA, but financial disaster won’t be popular, either.

    As for too many pitchers, I’m against rules that prevent managers from making decisions, but I would welcome a return to the 25-man roster with a limit of 10 or 11 pitchers on the team.

    The goal: average game 2:30 hours or less.

    1. I believe a pitch clock comes as soon as 2022.

    2. Too much time wasted between half-inning breaks…..90 seconds.
       Minors do not have that issue…..they can cut that to less than a minute.
       Show in screen advertisements between pitches.
       Soccer does it……other pro sports are starting to do it.
       Sponsors make fewer sales when less people view their advertisements as they tune out baseball games early..

71. I think they should have a normal off season try to see how they can improve the team but it they end up under 500 at 500 or behind multiple teams in the playoff race at the trade deadline. I would trade everyone and rebuild the organization. Get as much value for Harper JT and Wheeler and the rest as you can. Then since getting rid of high priced players hopefully for a bunch of good prospects. You will have money to go after new free agents. Like to see the Phils make a couple of Alexander for Smoltz type trades. Get like two or three really good prospects for each. I would consider keeping Harper and maybe other key pieces but I truly feel that the Phils are way too far away from being good and by the time the Phils are good I believe will be at least three maybe four or five years JT Wheeler and Harper may be on the other side of their prime and not effective anymore. It would be great to watch true good prospects s develop like we did with Rollins Howard and Utley team. I am tired of hearing someone like Morak is prospect that can be counted on he is a suspect dripping hard in the rankings. I hope he plays for the Phils next year. If he plays he won’t hit over 240. He will be a 230ish hitter with 5-10hrs. I mean he never hit more then 260s in minors We need a real reboot Can not be a winning team by always just putting to together with band aids

72. Need to build up the pharm

    1. Rocky, I don’t see that happening, but I’ve let my mind go there, he it’s the offseason.I will say, I thought I had a better idea what would happen once the trade deadline passed. trading Howard was a go for it sign, as they were going go past the luxury cap. Then Harper’s comments through me for a curveball this off-season. I’m just going to wait, I see it going 1 of 2 ways at this point, and IMO, The braves success will play a part in what happens. I’ve been saying it for a while, but the braves are significantly better than the Phillies., if they ever open the vault, the NL east is screwed. I could see a retool but again I’m just going to waiT, will know soon enough. Again, seeing how far the gap is between the braves and the Phillies, some sort of realism needs to go into their plans

       1. Totally agree Tac

73. And Braves will win World Series. Dam why could we rebuild our outfield and get a arm at the deadline ????

    Oh yeah we will be ok we have Mickey Morack come on guys

    That’s the e difference in the two organizations. We end up with MM and Braves get winners

74. Ok I apologize to MM he did hit 284 in 176 AB for gulf coast Phils in 2016. But was a 238 in 365 ABs for AAA this year. Hmmmm maybe it’s not on him? Maybe it’s out pharm system can not develop? Hey if he gets packaged as a plus piece a throw in in a trade this off season I hope he is a 280 -290 MLB hitter when his new team develops him and fixed him. He needs new coaching ours jaut isn’t working for him.

    1. Rocky, your point is taken. Braves lost stars, replaced them and won the division. Phillies weren’t nearly as bold. But I’m willing to give DD the off season to show he still has it.

75. A day does not go by where Rocky doesn’t dump on Moniak. We got it the first 50 times. You don’t like him but please, give the kid a break. And us.

76. Give the kid a break please be realistic look at the numbers. 235 in triple A. At least the guy from Virginia performed in the minors and did well in his first September call up before everyone gave up on him.

77. Plus I did give the kid a break and said hey if traded maybe he becomes a 270 280 mlb hitter

78. My plan: 1-sign Joc Pedersen to platoon with Vierling in LF, 2-trade Rojas, Miller and Marchan for Ketel Marte to play CF, resign Neris and Bradley, 3-sign Iglesias to be the closer, 4-resign Galvis and Brad Miller, 5-sign Greg Polanco to a minor league deal, 6-sign a SP to a minor league deal
    Lineup Marte, Segura, Harper, Hoskins, JT, Pedersen/Vierling, Bohm, Didi/Galvis.

    1. If there’s enough money to also sign Story or Seager, they would then be a good team but I doubt they will. Marte has one year left and they will try to extend him after the trade.

       1. I think they can get Story @ around JTR numbers……say 5yrs @ $120M.
          But only if Didi is moved.
          I think the Yankees will go after Seager.
          Correa….could be a Cub.
          Baez and Semien have not a clue.

          1. No chance. Story was a 3 WAR player this year and their most ready prospect is a SS. Not going to happen and it shouldn’t. Fingers crossed on a slugger like Schwarber. They need a slugger, a closer and a lead off hitter. They really don’t need to overpay for Trevor Story.

             1. Story was a 4WAR player accorinf to BR.
                Last three years…14.7bWAR player…..with last seasons truncated season.
                Also, Stott may not start the year at short in Philly, or for that matter stay at shortstop when he gets to Philly.
                He even admitted last week they have had play at 3B and 2B.
                Granted shortstop is his primary position, but they have had move around this season.
                And also who is to say if they sign Story, he stays at short.
                He could go to 3B as he played there in the minors for awhile.
                The team needs defensive and offense….Schwarber in LF…poor defensively….a negative 5 DRS……more defensive woes.
                His bat would have to play to overcome that.

                1. You’re right about his bWAR – he was a 3.5 fWAR – he is going to be 29 next year. If you sign him his highest and best use is at SS – to me, Stott is the guy you want there and he’s made a believer out of me – I get what you’re saying but I think you need to dedicate resources elsewhere. I get that Schwarber isn’t a great fielder – that’s why they need to get someone to run things down in center.

                2. Yeah…..Dave D has some decisions to make.
                   Team defense is just one of the areas that needs to be shored up.
                   With the DH coming to the NL..Schwarber’s bat can be utilized, how often as a DH depends on what they plan on doing in particular situations with Bohm and Hoskins, and then giving JTR rest from cacthing.at times.

79. Your apology is too late. You should learn how to spell players’ names and fact check before you touch the keyboard. I’m tired of your lame comments. There are plenty of other sites that will welcome and encourage stupid comments. Not here, though. See ya.

    1. The spelling issue was a little tough to take – baseball reference, fangrqphs or MLB.com are just keystrokes away.

    2. Thank you, Jim.

80. Murray, I don’t think that Didi is back. Not saying we go after one of the top SSs, but I think someone takes him and a nice check to offset salary. I like Rojas but can’t complain about your Marte trade. I also bring back Hector but definitely not as a Closer. I look at Simmons to play SS, not much better defensively than him. Depending on $ allocated by JM, a veteran to play LF with Vierling would be nice, otherwise I think it is a young player platoon.

    1. I don’t think Didi will be traded. They’d have to pay $10M for a team to take him and odds are that he’ll be in better shape next year and will bounce back. I saw the Yankees rumor but I’ll believe it when I see it. Seager just looks made for that right field porch.

81. Murray – I agree with you. Seager made for that porch and Yanks only have one left handed hitter in lineup who can hit it (the 3 outcome guy). Moreover, even if they signed him as SS, they could put Urshela at SS and Seager at 3B – where given his size etc. he is more likely to end his career at anyway.

    I see Baez either with Mets on a return engagement or maybe a team who doesn’t hit a big free agent, but has money – say Detroit. Semien is anybody’s guess – I say Toronto – they have $$ and motivation. He could just want to stay. Story – is the odd man out – alot of teams would like to have him but I don’t surrender a draft choice to sign him – he is simply not a difference maker. and heaven knows what his stats in Colorado mean ??? See – Arenado ; good, but certainly not Harperian or Freeman like – among whom he has been compared to as a paragon of 2020+ baseball. I see Houston keeping their shortstop – along with Altuve / matched pair.

    There are other better alternatives to Didi not including the big 5. Simmons ? Galvis ? a trade ? If all else falls and Seager returns to LA – I could even see a Didi trade to Yanks for near nothing to fill a hole until Volpe arrives. Say they pay 3 million of his salary – and throw a pitcher at DD, it could get done.

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