Open Discussion: Week of August 15, 2021

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other BASEBALL topics.  


The Phillies (61-57) went 2-4 and fell out of first place.  I’ve seen all the posturing from fans about strength of schedule, returning players, and players playing better.  And, I’m here to tell you I don’t buy it.  We know who these guys are.  Why would we expect differently?

The Phillies habitually play to the level of their competition.  They’ve done this for years.  Why would this be the year they don’t?

Players are returning from the IL.  Who among them was really that good to make that big of a difference?  And, why expect those players to be as “good” or better than they were before going onto the IL?

Players will play better during the last 6 weeks.  Sure.  Can we expect players to all of a sudden play better than they have all year?  Or, better than they have the past three Septembers?

This is reminiscent of my youth when my friends and I would look at the standings and determine that if the Phillies won their last 15 games they could overtake the first-place team with a 12-game lead.  It didn’t matter that we didn’t concern ourselves with the four or five teams between us and first place.  We were six and seven and the next day we would recalculate.  Every day until they were further back than they had games remaining.

We may have not considered all the things that had to happen and ignored the teams in between, but we never pulled an Ozark. (“We’re not out of the race.” – Danny Ozark (1975) when the Phillies were seven games out with six to play.)

So, yeah, I’ve accepted that the Phillies are NOT going to win the division.  (Subject to change if Nola shows up a couple games in a row.)


And, for what it’s worth, I agree that Ranger Suarez is pitching very well as an opener.  But, I still think they weakened the bullpen for a, so far, modest improvement to the rotation.


Key Dates:

  • July 30, 2021: Trade Deadline (4 p.m. ET)
  • August 1, 2021: Signing deadline for 2021 drafted players
  • Oct. 3, 2021: Regular season concludes

Transactions (last week’s transactions)

8/15/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Adonis Medina to Lehigh Valley
8/15/2021 – Phillies activated RHP Chase Anderson from the 10-day IL
8/15/2021 – Lehigh Valley activated SS C.J. Chatham from the 7-day IL
8/15/2021 – Reading sent C Nick Matera on a rehab assignment to Clearwater
8/15/2021 – Clearwater placed C Arturo De Freitas on the 7-day IL
8/14/2021 – Phillies activated LHP Bailey Falter
8/14/2021 – Phillies recalled RHP Adonis Medina from Lehigh Valley
8/14/2021 – Phillies designated RHP David Paulino for assignment
8/14/2021 – Phillies optioned CF Mickey Moniak to Lehigh Valley
8/14/2021 – Lehigh Valley sent CF Adam Haseley on a rehab assignment to Jersey Shore
8/14/2021 – Reading activated RHP Colton Eastman from the 7-day IL
8/14/2021 – 3B Nicolas Torres assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
8/14/2021 – RHP Cam Wynne assigned to Clearwater
8/14/2021 – Clearwater activated LF Baron Radcliff from the 7-day IL
8/14/2021 – Clearwater activated CF Johan Rojas from the 60-day IL
8/14/2021 – C Freddy Francisco assigned to FCL Phillies from Jersey Shore
8/14/2021 – Clearwater sent C Micah Yonamine on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/14/2021 – RHP Brendan Bell assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
8/14/2021 – 3B Edgar Made assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
8/14/2021 – RHP Alex Garbrick assigned to FCL Phillies
8/14/2021 – RHP Konnor Ash assigned to FCL Phillies
8/14/2021 – LHP Tristan Garnett assigned to FCL Phillies
8/14/2021 – LHP Matt Osterberg assigned to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Lehigh Valley sent OF Cornelius Randolph on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Lehigh Valley sent SS C.J. Chatham on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Lehigh Valley sent C Edgar Cabral on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – RHP Adam Leverett assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading Fightin Phils
8/13/2021 – Reading sent C Nick Matera on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Clearwater sent OF Johan Rojas on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Clearwater sent OF Marcus Lee Sang on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Clearwater sent LF Baron Radcliff on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Clearwater sent LHP Tyler Adams on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – OF Jordan Viars assigned to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – LHP Jared Wetherbee assigned to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – C Anthony Quirion assigned to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – CF Adam Haseley assigned to FCL Phillies
8/13/2021 – Jared Loyo assigned to DSL Red from DSL White
8/12/2021 – Phillies placed RHP Sam Coonrod on the 60-day IL, right forearm tendinitis
8/12/2021 – Phillies sent LHP Bailey Falter on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
8/12/2021 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP David Paulino from Lehigh Valley
8/12/2021 – Phillies optioned SS Nick Maton to Lehigh Valley
8/12/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed 3B Dalton Guthrie on the 7-day IL
8/12/2021 – Reading placed RHP Billy Sullivan on the 7-day IL
8/12/2021 – Jersey Shore placed LHP Erik Miller on the 7-day IL, retro to July 29th
8/11/2021 – Phillies sent RHP Seranthony Dominguez on a rehab assignment to Reading
8/11/2021 – Phillies placed LHP Jose Alvarado on the 10-day IL, left shoulder impingement
8/11/2021 – Phillies optioned LHP Damon Jones to Lehigh Valley
8/11/2021 – Phillies activated CF Andrew McCutchen from the 10-day IL
8/11/2021 – Phillies activated RHP Connor Brogdon from the 10-day IL
8/10/2021 – Phillies placed 1B Rhys Hoskins on the 10-day IL, left groin strain
8/10/2021 – Phillies recalled CF Mickey Moniak from Lehigh Valley
8/10/2021 – Lehigh Valley activated RHP Ramon Rosso from the TIL
8/10/2021 – Nick Lackney assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
8/10/2021 – RF Carlos De La Cruz assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
8/10/2021 – SS Guarner Dipre assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
8/10/2021 – OF Junior Ortega assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
8/10/2021 – OF Ethan Wilson assigned to Clearwater
8/10/2021 – OF Jared Carr assigned to Clearwater
8/10/2021 – 3B T.J. Rumfield assigned to Clearwater
8/10/2021 – SS Uziel Viloria assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
8/10/2021 – 3B Freylin Minyety assigned to Clearwater
8/07/2021 – FCL Phillies released RHP Camilo Brazoban
8/07/2021 – FCL Phillies released RHP Andy Reyes
8/05/2021 – Threshers released RHP Engel Estevez
8/05/2021 – Threshers released SS Christian Valerio
8/05/2021 – FCL Phillies released RHP Dalvin Rosario
8/02/2021 – LHP Parker Scott assigned to FCL Phillies and Restricted List

357 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of August 15, 2021

      1. Looking at trends. Last several years, they have collapsed in Aug/Sept. To Jim’s point, the guys arent going to magically improve. They are what they are. They went 2-4 against playoff caliber teams. Their D was horrible. Offense went cold. Nola still cant put together a quality start. Wheeler, Harper, & JT can’t carry this team by themselves.

        I want to be wrong but nothing gives me the warm fuzzies. The 8 game win streak was nice but they have followed up with their normal cold streak.

            1. Jim – I love that we have a place to read the Pharm recaps. Jealous you can see them as much as you do.

              If my 4 year old wasn’t so scared of Hornsby, we’d watch the wealth of talent that the Tulsa Drillers (Dodgers) have.

  1. Twenty of their next 28 games are against below .500 teams……they have to do it in the next four weeks.

  2. How prophetic is DMAR!
    Back in February he suggested moving Aaron Nola for prospects…and some questioned him on that suggestion.
    Well now, unless Nola can straighten himself out…..and get out hitters when he has two strikes on them, sheeesh……then the Phillies probably come up a tad short on Sep 30..

    1. I get what Jimmy is saying about who this team really is. Remember also when I said I identified the only 15 games that matter were those that remained against the Mets-Braves-Marlins

      And that we had to go 11-4 maybe 10-5 in those games to win the division. So far we’ve only played three of those games and we are 3-0.

      and in the famous words of Dennis Green god test his soul

  3. No matter how much I love the guy, Cutch is killing us. Strikeouts in crucial situations. DH or not, he will be gone in my book.

    1. It is Klentak’s salary contract to Cutch, that makes it more difficult to appreciate Cutch….probably it was $5/6M AAV too much

  4. Imo the big story from these past two series is that the Phils org has reached the conclusion that Bohm isn’t a 3B. I guess it is possible that they give him another off-season to try to improve. But he has been replaced by a journeyman in critical games. To me, this reality is more upsetting than whether they squeak into the playoffs or not. We NEED Bohm to be a stud player. We can’t fill our team through Free Agency. Watching the Reds series I was reminded what a complete failure Johnny Almaraz was. Tyler Stephenson was taken 11th overall in 2015. One spot behind C Randolph. Stephenson looks like a complete stud. Young, cheap elite talent from the catcher position. I remember there was a lot of talk about the Phils taking Stephenson leading up to the draft. But for some reason JA decided on C.

    1. Put Toreyes at SS, Bohm at 3b, platoon Moniak/Williams in left for rest of season. See what we could get for Cutch on a waiver deal and maybe Didi too.

          1. They made a waiver claim but Denny was talking about the waiver trade deadline where teams could work out a trade for a player who was claimed. That doesn’t exist anymore.

            1. So I understand correctly if you put a guy on waivers and another teams claims him he’s gone you can’t pull him back like before?

            2. I believe waiver deals can only be done if the player is not on the 40man roster. Something like that

            3. He is released from the org…a free agent.
              Pre- 2019, players could still be traded following the July 31 deadline if they first cleared ‘revocable’ trade waivers.
              Those days are gone now.
              This however does not apply to players on minor league contracts that are not on a team’s 40..

      1. Bigger question is not Torreyes, but how Galvis fits in. I imagine Didi will fight for playing time (and hopefully they limit Torreyes a bit as he is overexposed).

    2. As a matter of fact, RAJ went down to Georgia to see Stephenson play before the draft. Stephenson was intentionally walked every PA except one. The only time the opposing team pitched to him was when he came up with the bases loaded. They should have walked him again (and allowed a run to score) because Stephenson hit a grand slam in that one AB. On that same scouting trip to Georgia, RAJ also went in to see Cornelius Randolph. I don’t know who had the final call, but the club picked Randolph over Stephenson. They also seriously considered Walker Buehler, but passed on him over arm health concerns (BIG MISTAKE). The LADs were less risk averse, and it paid off in a big way for them.

      1. I was thinking about you Hinkie when I wrote that. I knew that you had some background on that pick. Just a terrible decision.

  5. I can’t believe the negativity on here. The Phil’s are one game out with 44 to play and NOW is when you guys write them off? I certainly would not bet any money on them winning the division but let’s see where they are in a couple of weeks when these schedules flip. I see big cracks in the Padres and if we can gain some ground on them next week, we may find ourselves in a 3 team race with The Reds for the wild card. WAY too early to give up now. and Bohm cannot play more than part time right now. No defense, no power.

    1. The NL East right now is like 2 over-the-hill boxers slugging it out in the latter rounds, staggering and holding on to each other. The final week both will reel and one will fall to the mat right before the other. Winner by one second drop before other.

  6. I don’t care what anyone says/writes. Being in first place for a week this late in the season was glorious. After ten years of so-so to very poor results it has been taxing on all of us but those wonderful seven days on top were amazing! Okay, somebody smack me one upside the head.

  7. I also will admit that I was down on the move to make Suarez a starter, which has worked out well so far. Sure it weakens the bullpen but having a passable to good starter seems So much more important. That said, IMO game management and proper, player game preparation should not get a “pass” for the Phils problems.

    1. Falter should be back this week…..along with Eflin probably in 10 days or so..that will help the staff….not sure if that will change anything they intend on doing with Suarez however..

      1. Romus … Falter pitched yesterday, and he looked good. It sucked that he missed time twice because of COVID. He’s become a major weapon for Girardi.

  8. The Braves are definitely the team to beat. I’ve always thought that (even while the Mets were leading the division for 2+ months. That Atlanta lineup is as good and as deep as any lineup in the NL. This is not to say the Phillies are dead. They’re not. They’ll need to hit more consistently to keep pace with the Braves.
    Atlanta picked up a game on the Phils this week by taking 2 of 3 from Cincinnati, while the Phillies could only beat the Reds once. Atlanta has a chance to distance themselves even further next weekend because of the schedules. But things flip the other way after that. The Phillies will need to make up ground when they are playing the DBacks and Nats while the Braves are saddled with the Dodgers and Giants.
    A key injury to either team could determine who wins the NL East.

    1. Agree. I’m envious of the Braves, though. Even with all the injuries, their lineup is so impressive – Albies, Freeman, Swanson, Riley. And the one over 30 is Freeman.

    2. Braves offense is better fit for a playoff race than the Phillies. Braves are definitely the team to beat. They have the ability to sustain a long hot streak unlike our Phillies.

      Braves pitching is getting stronger. Their deadline moves helped both sides of the ball, whereas the Phillies went with pitching. They have done nothing to address their inconsistent offense. Maybe I am wrong in my amateur analysis.

      1. They really miss Hoskins. I was hoping for more from Cutch when he came off the IL. I do know DD made a concerted effort to get Buxton but the price was too high. Would love to have gotten someone like Duvall, though.

    3. Looking at the rest of the month’s schedules I would say;
      Phillies should go 10-4 and Braves 7-6, the Mets 7-8.

      1. Yes, Denny. The Phillies should be in first place again by the end of the day on Sunday September 1st. The Phillies and Braves both have easy schedules in September. I still believe there’s a pretty good chance they both make the playoffs.

        1. Wow, that is very interesting. Both in Playoffs. Maybe we can beat them like ’93 and get into the WS.

      1. The Acuna injury just brought the the Braves back closer to the Phillies. Another key injury (maybe Freeman or Albies or Riley) could/would tip the scales in the Phillies favor.

  9. I didn’t get to see the game yesterday I am renovating my kitchen. But I heard the umpiring again was pretty bad. An article by Leo Morganstern from SB Nation pointed me to the this site which is pretty cool.

    Doesn’t look like yesterdays games were posted yet but if you’re not aware of it maybe you want to bookmark it

    https://umpscorecards.com/site-data/games.html

    again I don’t want to move mounds back or down or sideways. I just want strikes to be strikes and balls to be balls. Please if you can’t achieve 95% + on your own wear a device that helps you out.

    1. So the site is updated with Barber’s rating and surely no surprise he was roughly 91% accurate missing 16 of 181 pitches slightly to the favor of the Reds.

      That said the impact of those misses was rated at 2.48 runs

  10. DMAR – cool site – thank you. The umpiring cost Brogdon at least one run on an awful 3rd strike missed call and with the lousy interpretation on the disputed play, likely another 1, for a total of 2. .. Nola cost them the game when he gave up 2 hits, one to the pitcher, and the other to a .213 batter after getting 2 strikes on both of them. So the game was decided by 3 pitches essentially.

    1. No problem RU and a game should never be decided by or left in the hands of umpires IMO. Really good teams overcome that crappola however umpires like most professions should be performance driven.

      I don’t want to get rid of them I just want them held accountable like any player would…

      and of course as it has been repeated so often if the technology exists to improve ball and strike calling please use it.

  11. Not to repent the trading of Tyler Gilbert for that lefty masher Kyle Garlick I just think it was pretty cool for the young man to pitch a no hitter in his first MLB game.

    Kudos to you Mr. Gilbert

    1. My issue isn’t trading Gilbert. It is that we got a guy who had 23 PAs for us and was clearly not in our long term plans. Just throwing away a prospect for nothing.

        1. lol, there is a bit of a difference between the 40 man roster and farm system depth of the Dodgers and of the Phillies. If I was a Dodgers fan, I doubt that I would be upset about this.

          1. Gilbert was taken in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 Draft. That means that in addition to the minor leaguers protected on the 40-man roster, there were another 38 protected who were placed on the Dodgers Triple-A roster.

            1. Ok. So it was a mistake by the Dodgers. But two big differences. 1. They only had him for a short period unlike the Phils who drafted him and had him in their system for 4 season. 2. The Dodgers minors are stacked. So is the MLB club.

  12. After my remaining schedule breakdown the other day (think it was Fri?), I’m now convinced that yes, it’s pretty irrelevant. Jim’s opening comments are well taken. I get hopeful like an 8 year old mapping out the Ws and Ls from now until the first weekend in October, then reality sets in like a putrid smelling fart after you’ve eaten something savory but unhealthy.

    The Phillies may very well hang in there but Heartbreak City is written all over this roster. Anything can happen, but wouldn’t it be much more enjoyable if this was a team with personality and leadership? Winning this division could wind up being like finishing first in a 100 yard dash because the fastest kid didn’t show due to a broken leg.

    1. Haha good one Mark and thanks for clarifying what I meant on Garlick. Better phrasing next time

  13. DMAR – Garlick bats right but we get your point. I liked Gilbert early on and was surprised by the trade.

    1. I believe DMAR meant that Garlick was a lefty masher, meaning he hits LHPs better than RHPs.

  14. 1 game out with less than 50 games to play. Sign me up for that! It’s fun.

    With that said, someone mentioned Wheeler Harp and JT not being able to carry us by themselves. JT is certainly not carrying us in any way shape or form. Hes a good hitter for a catcher. Hes a slightly above average bat in total tho. Couple big hits and a couple times has come up short in a big spot. But he is not a big bat. Frankly, I think he’s ok on defense too.

    Nola needs to turn it around. I think he will be ok. DD getting hot would be nice. Bohm needs to move his hands higher in off-season so he can get to the fastball on a downward plane a bit more. He’s just too tall to have his hands that low with the little hitch to hit right handed velocity consistently. I think he bounces back.

    Go phillies.

    1. Not to go full WIP caller but if Nola had shown up last year we wouldn’t be talking about a playoff drought. If he had been 2017 or 2019 Nola even this year we wouldn’t be talking about sharing first place with the Braves. I know he looked great against the Dodgers but he’s cruised through games only to blow up later before.

      We need to take 2/3 from the Dbacks at worst and hopefully Rhys doesn’t lose a step coming back from injury and we have a shot. This line up looks a lot different when Rhys is in there vs Miller.

      When Rhys comes back I’m sending Bohm down to AAA. Williams offers more flexibility defensively and Bohm needs reps to improve his approach and defense. When Galvis is activated I’m sending Williams down.

      Outside of Rhys having Falter come back and hopefully soon Coonrad and Seranthony that really strengthens the pen. Instead of going to De Los Santos/name your bad reliever behind we’ll have guys that hopefully can keep our offense in games and give them a chance.

    2. Optimism is surely a choice Ricky. I’m looking for reason to be optimistic I am having a hard time finding them.

      The farms seems to be underperforming as well

      1. As it relates to the farm, horror show. Zero impact bats that could help the club in next 2 or 3 years. Maybe Stott can be a good player. Maybe we get lucky and a guy like Ortiz puts it together but highly doubtful. A ball teams have a couple guys with tools but so does every system. Plus most of our guys are hitting around mendoza line. Last years draft via the college bats have performed atrociously…Martin was overmatched in A ball, not good sign…Radcliff has be almost impossibly bad. He is hitting below .200 in low A ball and is like a year older than average age. Who cares that he walks. Can’t hit.

        Abel and Painter have nice profiles. Will see but they are a long way off to helping us. It would be nice to see them throw a real amount of innings over next 18 months. Morales has good stuff. Can’t throw strikes which stinks.

    3. that was me. JT has carried the Phillies with his usual stellar defense and is one of the best offensive catchers in the game. he has bad plenty of big hits too.

      I am sure Bohm will be coming to PP for your expert advice 🙂
      sorry, couldnt resist.

      would love to see Bohm do whatever worked last year as he is definitely pressing this year.

      Also, IMO, I think Nola is hurt. Wouldnt be shocked if the injury for several years ago is coming back. He just doesn’t have it this year.

  15. Wow, talk about a bad grade.

    Baseball America ranks Phillies farm system as 28th besting only Astros and ChiSox.

    Mick Abel ought to continue advancing up prospect lists but Phillies have had trouble hitting on top 10 picks for multiple years, BA says.

    Haven’t seen grades this bad since high school algebra.

    Mariners, O’s and Royals rank one, two three.

    1. On individual players in mid-season update, Abel is only Phillie in top 100. He’s ranked 72.

      Our old Friend Sixto Sanchez is 32. That’s down from 14 last year.

    2. Frank…..those grades can really change in a matter of 2 or 3 years…..thru quality drafting, international signings and trades.
      Also…if Moniak, Haseley and Stott should emerge (fingers-crossed)…..there will not be many open spots within the starting 8 positions.
      So many prospects will have plenty of time to develop….until they reach their draft Rule 5 stage

    3. Justified bad grade.

      Outside of Abel, Stott, Painter, there are very few high profile prospects.

      I’ve been waiting for the turnaround but year after year, the ranking is getting worse and worse.

      Jim – is there any diamonds in the rough that you are seeing? Perhaps next year Phillies gain some ground in the rankings?

      1. This system is very bad. I don’t remember it being worse over the last 13 or 14 years. It can turn around in a couple seasons but DD isn’t really known as a GM that grows the orchard, he mostly buys groceries.

        1. I would have to say 2012 and 2013 are worse than what it is now:

          2012
          1. Trevor May
          2. Jesse Biddle
          3. Sebastian Valle
          4. Brody Colvin
          5. Larry Greene
          6. Justin de Fratus
          7. Phillipe Aumont
          8. Julio Rodriguez
          9. Michael Shwimer
          10. Maikel Franco

          2013 is not that much better.

          JP Crawford improved the ratings soon after.

    4. I can hardly believe there are two teams worse than us. Of course the big difference is those teams are WS contenders with a lot of younger players they’ve graduated recently who are helping in big ways.

  16. Unusual for me, but I’m choosing to think that only being 1 game back on August 16 is a god send. We all would have welcomed that opportunity at any point prior to a week ago. This team is streaky, nothing néw. I look forward to seeing penant race ball in August and hopefully in Sept. Hoskins was hitting before he got hurt, Cut h was hitting before he got hurt, JT too. Every time they’re out of the lineup it takes a week to find their timing again. I expect Cutch to start hitting better soon. As for Ranger, I’m sorry but he’s much more than an opener. He’s doing very well and I will always argue that a good starter is better than a good bullpen guy just by the number of good innings pitched.

  17. IMO. Denny and pywolf bring good thoughts.
    Early season young players brought excitement to the team, get a hit or get on, pass the bat and occasionally big Cutch, Harper, Hoskins or DD. Now where’s the pass the bat seems we are waiting for BIG Hit.
    Let’s Team This.
    Nola just was not himself, Umps aside.
    BP is Revamped and holding .
    Dog Days of Aug.
    Play the team game Atlanta IS Young!

    Get Herrera out his Selfish hurts us. Should of been on second but taking pic at 1st

    Let’s Go Team

  18. Padres signed their new ace, Jake Arrieta.

    All we can hope for is the 2021 Jake Arrieta and hope they he helps the Pads stack up some losses

    1. There’s no real reason to hope they lose outside of our series against them next week. They also play 3 against the Braves and Cards before the end of the season, and we’d be better off having them sweep those series. So even best case scenario, they only win those 6 games for the rest of the season and we overtake them in the wildcard race.

      BUT, that still leaves the Reds and Cards ahead of us for WC2. Well they still play each other 6 times, so best we can hope for is they split. The bad news? The Reds still play the Pirates 9 more times, the Cubs 6 more times, the Marlins 7, and the Nats 3. As for the Cards? They get Pittsburgh and the Cubs 7 times each, but the rest of their schedule is fairly tough. So maybe we overtake the Cards, and if the Friars have a nightmare end of season, we overtake them, too. But the Reds are still there.

      Basically, our chances of making it in via wildcard are rapidly approaching zero. It’s division winner or bust. May as well hope the Padres get in a groove after our series so they sweep the Braves later.

      1. Dan … take a look at that Padre’s schedule. They’ve still got 9 games left with the Dodgers, 10 with the Giants, 3 with Astros, 3 with the Cardinals, 3 with the Braves, and 3 with the Phillies. IMO, they’re going to have a mucho difficult time overcoming that.

        1. Sorry, Dan. I read through your post too fast. Your point was the Phillies won’t be able to catch the Reds, not that the Padres can’t be caught.
          I will say this: as good as the Reds lineup is, their BP is even worse. That would concern me (a lot) if I was a Reds’ fan.

          1. I thought the Reds did a nice job to improve their BP. They added Givens, Cessa and Wilson. I think Lorenzen was hurt for a while and is about to come back.

            Get what you are saying that its not a lights out BP even after the trades but there RPG is really good and it appears we’re going to get another look at their rookie SS Jose Barrero whos been tearing up AAA this year

  19. DMAR … thanks for sharing that Umpire Score Card website. I had always believed Alan Porter was one of the best umps in MLB. The site confirmed it.

    Also … as a 58 YO guy, it hurts me, but doesn’t surprise me to see that the best umpires are the young umpires (guys in their 20’s/30’s/40’s). And the worst/most inaccurate balls/strikes umpires are almost all AARP qualified.

    Most accurate:

    Tripp Gibson … 40 YO
    Jeremie Rehak … 33 YO
    Alan Porter … 43 YO
    John Libka … 34 YO
    Will Little … 37 YO
    Pat Hoberg … 34 YO
    Nic Lentz … 31 YO
    Edwin Moscoso … 28 YO
    John Tumpane … 38 YO
    Jansen Visconti … 33 YO

    Least accurate:

    Ed Hickox … 59 YO
    Gerry Davis … 68 YO
    Kerwin Danley … 60 YO
    Joe West (MuFossil 🦁) … 68 YO
    Brian O’Nora … 58 YO
    Ron Kulpa … 52 YO
    Greg Gibson .., 52 YO
    Tom Hallion … 64 YO
    Laz Díaz … 58 YO

    only 46 YO Adrian Johnson finishes in the bottom 10 home plate umps.

    1. YW Hinkie. A part of me sometimes wonders if certain guys wear a device and others (older more stodgy ones) don’t

      Big surprise not to see Angel Hernandez listed as one of the worst

  20. MadMax Pulls A Stripes’ Francis Sawyer:

    “Scherzer — on the mound for L.A. for the first time since being traded from the Nationals — was hurling a gem … so Roberts said in between innings, he gave the pitcher congratulatory butt slaps.
    But, Roberts says at some point during the evening … he heard Scherzer mutter something after one of the playful taps.
    “I’m like, did he just say, ‘Don’t f-ing touch me?'” Roberts said.
    Turns out, Scherzer did … with Roberts explaining the ace told him afterward, “This is my job. I don’t need any kind of congratulations or support ’cause that’s my job.”
    So, Roberts is now avoiding contacting Scherzer at all costs during games.”

    1. LOL, Romus. I saw Roberts say that during last night’s ESPN game with the Mets. i thought the same thing as you. Scherzer is another Francis.

      1. Some guys are very intense during their game time performances …..Chase was a little like that….but mostly pitchers are the ones, if any, who are like that.

          1. No, Doc was intense and intimidating but he was never as a_ _ hole. What Scherzer said to a seemingly nice man like Dave Roberts was outrageous. If you don’t like it, I get that – talk to the man in private then. Don’t be a condescending jerk in front of the team.

  21. I’m late to the party commenting on the post with which Jim introduced this week’s thread, but let me comment, anyway.

    I’m more hopeful on the Phillies, though I surely understand the pessimistic sentiment given our years of disappointment.

    Jim asked why we should expect the players who went on the IL to be as good or better coming off. The fact is that Hoskins, Cutch and Efflin were doing well. If they come back as strong, it will a material benefit.

    Suarez is a marked improvement to the starting staff, and a month ago we didn’t have Kyle Gibson. VV not starting is addition through subtraction. The bullpen might be weakened by Ranger moving to the rotation, but it is considerably stronger with players back from the IL, others finding their roles and Kennedy arriving.

    As for the weaker schedule and playing down to the competition, there’s a guy on the Inky site who presented compelling statistical evidence that the Phillies are playing much better against the weaker teams. I went back to try to find his posts but couldn’t.

    I’m making no predictions and have experienced my share of disappointment over many decades (read since 1950s) as a Phillies fan, but there does appear to be reason for hope.

  22. According to MLB.com, Hamels threw a simulated game on Aug. 7 at Dodgers Stadium. The left-hander was scheduled to pitch two innings, but only ended up pitching one. He attempted to warm up for a second inning, but left the mound after a few pitches. The Dodgers have so far not specified what kind of injury Hamels is dealing with. I wonder if this is it for Hamels.

    1. Pitching shoulder. LAD placed him on 60day IL. Season’s over before he made an appearance. Ironically, Neftali Feliz was selected to replace him on the 40man roster. So there’s your Phillies connection.

        1. He needs to sign a 1 day contract and retire as a Phillie. We’ll see him at the wall of Fame ceremony in the future.

          1. Nah. I know I’ll be in a very small minority, but I’m of the opinion that he turned his back on us in 2020 to sign with Atlanta. So, skip the one day deal and we’ll see him at the Wall.

            1. He’s a legend and forever will be. An all time great Phillie and seems like a great person off the field. No title in ‘08 without him. Cole drinks for free forever.

    1. Nice best part was he did it against a lefty. Right shoulder stayed closed and pitch seemed to be a bit of a breaker al beit a poor one.

      Rare to see Fred McGriff but last night Harold Reynolds invited him on and my gosh does that guy know hitting. He talked about how he was in AA struggling to be consistent. He had a rare chance to talk to Wade Boggs during a preseason game.

      He said he always struggled against the curve and how he always tried to guess. He said even when he guessed right on curve balls he still missed them because he never laid off he swung at them no matter what.

      Boggs suggested he never look for anything or guess anything but FB. Hit off that pitch and when you see spin let it go (unless of course down in the count). He claims that changed his entire career.

      he ended up hitting LHP for his career at a respectable 265/344/791 OPS clip. That’s a guy that should be in the HOF

      1. McGriff’s 52.6 WAR is no joke, but no MVP will hurt him.

        Didn’t realize it until now, but he was traded by the Blue Jays as part of the deal for Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter.

  23. Deolis Guerra has a 3.83 ERA in 42.1 innings for the A’s this season as they hold onto the second wildcard spot in the AL.

  24. So the Phillies absolutely need to sweep Arizona beginning tonight.
    The DBacks just took three of four against the Padres. Here’s hoping that was more of a case of a sinking Padres squad and not a surging DBacks club.
    Arizona owns the worst record in baseball. However, their grip on next year’s 1-1 pick has evaporated to just one game in front of (or maybe behind) Baltimore. If holding on to that top pick isn’t enough to light a fire to tank, I don’t know what is.

    1. The Phillies should sweep the DBacks…but it’s at Chase Field where the ball flies like crazy. The Phillies will need to run up the score.

    2. 3 of 4 is more realistic. A split is most probable. The home games against the weak sisters are the ones the Phillies MUST ABSOLUTELY play .700 ball. If they continue to play to the level of their competition, fuggetaboutit….

      1. Correction…my bad, the Phillies and Dbacks only play 3, not 4. So yes, we should expect a series win…but still not a sweep.

        1. 44 games left, and the Phillies have multiple opportunities to go on 7 (or even 8) game win streaks. They have got to beat up the bad clubs. Those teams have already sold off lots of veteran players, and are mostly in tank mode right now.

          1. Hinkie:
            Here is the Philies record this season vs .500 or less teams,
            plus NL-East teams..

            Atl……..9-7
            Cubs…3-1
            Col……1-2
            Mia……7-6
            NYM……8-8
            Pit……….1-2
            WSN….10-6
            Total…..39-32
            So they really do not take lesser teams too lightly.

            1. Girardi’s gang still has …

              7 vs DBacks
              4 vs Rockies
              3 vs O’s
              4 vs Pirates
              3 vs Nats
              3 vs Cubs

              They need to win at least 19 of those 24 games if they’re serious about ending their 10 year postseason drought.
              19 wins + the 61 the currently have = 80
              If they split the remaining 20 contests, they end up with 90 wins. And that would almost certainly get them into the playoffs.

              29-15 … They are in w/90 W’s
              28-16 … Probably in w/89 W’s
              27-17 … Maybe in w/88 W’s
              26-18 … Won’t be in w/87 W’s

  25. V1, Hinkie, couldn’t agree more about Tyler Stephenson. He went to Kennesaw Mtn HS, minutes from me. When he was mocked a time or two to the Phillies and then on draft night made it to #10, I was elated! Only to be shocked JA reached for C.

    My district is Harrison HS. It produced Justin Fields, whom I had hoped the Eagles would draft. Afraid philly is gonna regret that one too.

  26. Mick Abel has thrown 44 innings this year. He will be lucky to pitch 65 innings this year. Good year! Good development! Nice prospect! That is the phiilies fault. Brutal

    1. Jackson Rutledge, a top 100 prospect for the Nationals who is also pitching at A ball, has pitched 23.2 innings total for 2021.

      Seth Corry, a top 100 prospect for the Giants at high-A, has pitched 59.1 innings.

      Asa Lacy, a top 25 prospect for the Royals at High-A, has pitched 52 innings.

      I don’t need to say who Mckenzie Gore is. He’s pitched 20 innings in AAA.

      You figure that Abel has missed 2 starts because of Clearwater’s issues. He should be over 50 innings too.

      1. Guru…this is a healthy pitcher.

        I was right about spencer Howard. This board knows well that I was right on him. Abel going to pitch 80 innings in clearwater next year? I think we can agree there has been minimal at best development this year for Abel …I like abel a bunch btw…his ceiling is nola…very similar pitchers…which would be great

        1. The Phillies are taking it easy with Abel and I’m ok with that. He just turned 20. This is his first taste of full season baseball. But nobody knows how this will go. Cole Hamels threw 101 innings his first year. Clayton Kershaw threw 37.

      2. Guru, He didn’t miss starts because of the COVID issues in Clearwater. Pretty sure I covered this in a little more detail in a comment in a recap a week or so ago. If I did, then it’s out there. If I didn’t, then I must have decided it was my place to report it. But, I think I did. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t throw again until Instructs.

  27. This is hard to watch. Jankowski, Torreyes, Miller are playing too much and are getting exposed. Segura is starting to come down to Earth, JT and Cutch have been up and down. I can’t believe how much the Phillies need Rhys Hoskins to back up Harper. They are slumping at the worst time.

  28. What a collection of “dead sticks”! 3 hits, are you kidding me? What good is it to have quality SPs if you can’t hit a lick?

  29. Phillies were nearly as lifeless tonight as they were at the start of the Pirates series a couple of weeks ago. The bats in the ninth could not handle Tyler Clippard’s fastball which was coming in at a hot 89 mph.

  30. I have this sudden sinking feeling that the Braves will not relinquish their lead in the division from here on out. The Phillies have no heart, no leadership, and not nearly enough talent. The lineup needed a difference making bat at the deadline. Understand that Dombrowski wouldn’t give up Abel, Stott or Painter…so be it. We’ll have to live with what’s here. How much difference will Hoskins, Galvis and Eflin make when they join the team? Not enough IMO. There’s no such thing as a favorable schedule when the team has no pulse. You gotta show up first before you can win.

    1. Sheesh this club has me flip flopping all over the place. I wanted to sell everyone knows that. When we didn’t and we got Gibson and Kennedy I was ok let’s see what we can make out of the this season.

      If it goes bad we can still sell in the offseason.

  31. Phillies bats go cold again and have lost 5 of 7 after that 8 game win streak. Not even sure why I got my hopes up TBH. They are who we thought were. Now down 2.5 to Braves. But at least they were in first for a little bit!

    Too many holes on this team. They need one or two more consistent bats. When the pitching is on, the bats go cold.

  32. I want a winner again as much as anyone! However, this team is what it is and no mid season tweaks were gonna change it. The Braves are a great team that suffered injuries so they traded to replace losses. There’s a big difference. I feel I’ve seen this movie for at least 3 years running and thus why I begged to be Sellers. I’m afraid we missed a chance to leverage this new, improved FO to already have begun making moves for 2022. (Trading McCutchen at his perfectly-timed high alone might’ve been great.)

    1. Will not be a surprise to anyone, but the following will be venturing on happy trails after Nov…….Vinny, Roman, Doobie, Cutch,(unless he wants back at a cheap price), Chase A., Matt M., Hector the Protector, along EDLS and Damon Jones.
      Those nine to start, to be released or bought out…..not sure who Dave D will trade from the remining…

  33. Going to gave to be patient fellas. This will be a seesaw ride to the end. The team is what it is… which is good enough to keep it close to the end, possibly win a weakened division due to injury. It won’t be pretty, but it’ll be close by default,

    I do agree. We could’ve sold high on McCutchen but … now they just need to make the playoffs to make it “worth” it.

  34. Romus, none of those players brings anything back, so we are going to have to go the FA route once again. Maybe, one of Haseley or Mickey gets an OF spot, but I am not counting on either being a starter. Do not be surprised if Hector is back in the BP. Not as a Closer, but back.

    1. matt13…I do not expect anything for them…>ALL RELEASE..(salary spacing)
      The only free agents I want are….one of three…
      1. .Story, Seager or Correa…prefer Story
      2. A starting pitcher….Robbie Ray

      Then move Bohm to LF…Moniak to CF to battle it out with Haseley
      Segura in his last year, to third base, he will shine in his last year….and second base, until Stott is ready…..all the other guys like Ronald Torr.., or Freddy or Maton

      Dave D may have to move Didi…and eat 1/3 of his 2022 salary.

      1. I don’t want to rehash this but the Phillies are not signing a big name SS FA when they just gave Didi a TWO year deal. And if the Phillies wanted to trade Didi, they would have to eat at least 2/3+ of his salary. Currently, Didi is a negative WAR player.

        As much as we gripe about the starting pitching, it’s pretty much set for 2022: Wheeler, Nola, Eflin, Gibson, Suarez. Falter is waiting in the wings.

        What the Phillies can do is sign somebody like Chris Taylor to play CF. Something like 3 years, $46M.

        1. While I agree that the starting rotation for next season is set (with the possibility if not likelihood that Nola gets traded), I do believe a SS and CF should be targeted by Dombrowski. There’s little to nothing to trade from off the farm so he’s little choice but to exhaust the outgoing salaries shed from the 40man roster this winter who Romus mentioned above. Sign a free agent SS since the market will be flush, and trade for a CF from a 2nd division team. Dombrowski’s mission this off season will be (whether we agree or not) to construct a major league roster that legitimately contends for an NL title. Giants are one and done this year after losing many veterans, the Dodgers have been fortunate but an excellent organization nonetheless and the Padres are IMO overrated. The rest of the league is up for grabs.

        2. They gave Didi the extra year because they had to, not because they wanted to. Which tells me they had aspirations of having another starting SS next year (either Stott or a FA, you’d have to ask them which they were expecting). Either way, a single year of a bad contract doesn’t block big market teams from acquiring an upgrade at the position. Especially when that contract is for “only” $14M a year. That’s a drop in the bucket. If they want one of the FA shortstops, they’ll get them. They could even backload $14M of the contract if they’re that worried about the money (which they shouldn’t be).

          Now I’m not saying we WILL sign one of them; or even try. But Didi’s contract isn’t blocking any moves. Not a single one. He’s cheap enough that he’ll get cut if they don’t think he can turn it around (and they have better options).

          1. When was the last time the Phillies cut a player and ate siginificant money? They didn’t cut Ryan Howard and he deserved it. They didn’t cut Odubel or Scott Kingery. Historically, the Phillies don’t eat money like that.

            Anyways, let’s just say that Didi’s contract won’t stop them from signing a FA SS. I’ll say right now, the luxury tax will. You really can’t stay below the luxury tax if you have 4 players making close to $100M, which you will have if you give big money to Story or Correia. But let’s do what if again, and say that the Phillies do sign a FA SS. The Phillies won’t have money for anything else. No FA CF, no re-signing Eflin or Nola. Is that what you want?

            1. Howard’s contract is vastly different to Didi’s. And they didn’t cut Kingery or Odubel because there was no need. Notice how both players have spent significant time NOT on the 25 man roster? That is the exact same thing as eating the contract. They’re paying the players to not be on the team and signing other players to replace them.

              And again, I don’t know who they’re aiming for in FA. They might not sign ANYONE. But Didi’s money isn’t the factor that will prevent it. As I said, if they’re worried about the LTT, then they’ll just write the contract in such a way that the new player’s salary won’t push them over it even with Didi’s contract on the books.

              What I want is irrelevant. The team is going to do what they think will make them the best possible version of the Phillies. Based on this year, that most likely doesn’t involve Gregorius playing every day.

  35. The Rays payroll is $74 million. They are in first place in the AL East 73-47. Going against payrolls of NYY $201 BOS $193 and Toronto $149.

    Even after trading Snell arguably their best starting pitcher who had them within a game of a WS, who they had under control for another 3 seasons for a measly $41 million.

    And this after losing Friedman and Bloom 7 and 2 years ago. All whilst playing in one of the worst stadiums in the league.

    At what point do you start to look at your operation and say something is systemically wrong with how we operate our franchise.

    My father used to say to me when I was a little boy “son do I actually have to hit you in the head with this 2×4 for you to figure out that its going to hurt?

    1. The Rays are having success, but I don’t see too many other teams trying to replicate their style. It works for them and that’s great for them. But as much as they are winning, they haven’t won the big one yet. And they were under .500 from 2014-2017 (4 years).

      People think that they Rays could be a powerhouse if their payrolls went drastically higher. I disagree. Why? Mo money mo problems. When you give large contracts (i.e. Harper, Cole, Lindor, Trout, Rendon), there’s always a chance where that player (for whatever reason) doesn’t play up to their contract. So now you have an underperforming player and an albatross contract that nobody wants and that’s pushing you toward luxury tax.

      The Rays won’t be signing Wheeler, Harper, Lindor, Cole, Trout, etc. But they have the luxury of cutting/trading any underperforming player because that player is usually not making much. However, if a player gets expensive, they have to trade him off.

        1. What the Rays have shown the other cost conscious owners in MLB is that, with the right decision making, talent/value oriented people and development staff in place, why spend buku buckaroos on bad contracts when you can be in the hunt without it. The big market teams (and I don’t include our Phillies in this group) are willing to take the risks (ala LAD’s Friedman) and reap the occasional rewards of doing so. It’s a philosophy relative to the dollars available. Unfortunately, Middleton has difficulty deciding which because he seems double minded…spend on PR splashes, save on what actually helps you win on the field.

          1. Rays finish in lower positions and higher drafting opportunities, they take advantage of these and draft appropriately. Then make good trades for young players. Living near their AAA site, I see lots of good talent replaced by more good talent.

            1. I’m not sure the last time the Rays drafted in the top 10. I know they have had their share of misses as well.

            2. @DMAR, the last time the Rays drafted in the top 10 was 2017, #4 overall which became Brendan McKay (-0.2 career WAR).

              Their last decent first round pick was Blake Snell, which was a supplemental pick back in 2011 (#52 overall).

              Their last great pick was 2007 (#1 overall) which was David Price. Note that they also had the 2008 #1 pick, which they bombed with Tim Beckham.

              Their first round pick history is not great.

            3. From 2011 to 2020 the Rays made the playoffs 4X, have 5 series wins 1 WS appearance and seem to be poised for another appearance in the post season this year.

              On a miser’s budget….how? And how if they don’t particularly draft all that well.

              What do they do better than most clubs. Its something…

            4. And Romus I always put it on the tee for you and you bang it 350 in the center of the fairway 🙂

            5. DMAR…their team is built on trading.
              Virtually their starting 8 vs the Dodgers were all obtained via the trade route.
              They trade their ‘yuong’ vets at the opportune time to avoid the $$$$ hit and gather in prospects ready to step up into the majors.

              Their latest phenom…international signing from 3/4 years ago….Wander Franco….will probably be gone in 5 years when he starts to get into arb 3 or 4 money…but still controlled.

          2. The Phillies’ 3 biggest FA contracts (Harper, Wheeler, JT) are not the problems.

            The issue are the short term contracts (Cutch, Kingery, Herrera, Didi). They really have not panned out.

            Even the 1 year deals haven’t worked : Chase Anderson, Matt Moore.

            Add to it the sophmore jinx of Bohm and a subpar year from Nola, it’s crazy that the Phillies are even in the mix for the playoffs.

            The surprises are Suarez (who’s looking great), Falter (who’s showing he belongs), and maybe Hammer.

          3. mark8:29….large market teams cannot do what the Rays do……they will face collusion allegations from agents, most notable Scott Boras leading that charge, and MLBPA.
            Players will not get the large contracts……players will then have to consider work stoppages…..we saw a slight foreshadowing of that two off-seasons ago when the large market teams drugged their feet in signing some of the most prominent free agents…
            With all of that ‘noise’ the commissioner would probably have to intervene….and he works for the owners, not the MLBPA.

            Bottom line…there needs to be a standard team ‘salary floor’ in the MLB, and then the owners may be able to negotiate what they want…..a ‘hard cap’

            1. At the minimum, MLB has to have a salary floor of say $100M. You currently have at least 8 teams (almost a 3rd of the league) with team salaries under $100M.

              At the same time, you need to have harsher penalties for teams that exceed the luxury tax of say $200M.

            2. Exactly…..the small market teams are against that for obvious reasons.
              MLBPA and players want it.
              Large market team owners may want it but will not voice them disapproval for expediency sake and ‘solidarity’….though the latest and richest owner, Mets Steve Cohen, may be one who will push for it and the rest follow suit.

              But they just cannot keep going on without one.

  36. The worst part about probably ending the season at barely .500, it means the phillies will have a crappy draft pick and inevitably will mess that up.

    I try to be high on this team but year in and year out, they disappoint. Where is the team going to get talent for next year? #28 Farm system? Guessing no. FA – who wants to come to a team who cant make the playoffs? Middleton and his self imposed salary cap and will try to fill it with bargains. Cant wait!

  37. At the game last night, like a loud empty ballroom. Phillies showed no spirit, fight or willing to play team baseball, HR swings, 3 hits, 1 was a blooper.
    DiDi, Cutch OMG please hit a single. Segura still hitting into hard line outs . OMG rotate some energy why wait
    Please play team, pass the bat, move the runner
    Pitchers have to pitch perfect game cause of no support
    Please spend $$$$ For CF and SS

  38. Looks like some of the Padres’ players may have other things on their minds now, besides their slumping team woes….. seems Trevor Bauer’s accuser has been running the bases with a few of them prior to her episodes with Bauer. And brought out in court…ouch.

  39. Darick Hall’s last 20 games.
    Slashing 319/.395/.597..81 PAs…..6 HRs….K-17%
    Time for the call-up

    1. Romus…….our first base play has been so bad……. I say “come on down” show me what you got. If you can pick a one hopper off the turf, if you can run to the bag without having to run a mathematical algorithm in your mind to figure out which foot to touch the bag with come on down! Besides, it’s time to figure out why we’ve been carrying you all this time and whether or not you can do it or not, crunch time is here!

      1. No problem, I would be glad to do that for them. This is not really a tough job for them to do. I could give them 6 names and the team wouldn’t be any worse for it.

  40. Here is what the today’s starting line-up has done the past two weeks:

    1. Odubel ….. 273 / 333 / 455
    2. Segura…….214 / 241 / 214
    3. Harper …….211 / 448 / 632
    4. J.T…………..182 / 250 / 455
    5. DiDi…………269 / 310 / 385
    6. Cutch ……..080 / 148 / 200
    7. Miller ………095 / 174 / 143
    8. Torreyes ….280 / 308 / 400

  41. Segura allowed to slump it happens to most players. He and Harper for most part only two constants

    1. Patso – I certainly Segura gets a pass and Harper with an OPS of 1.080 is… well MVP-ish. But if they are going to beat anyone they need more than two guys producing (Odudel and Harper), two guys not embarrassing themselves (Torreyes and DiDi) and the rest of the line-up ice cold.

  42. I proposed this scenario earlier in the day but looks like MLB is trying to make it happen:

    MLB is reportedly proposing a $100M floor with a $180M luxury tax threshold. If a team exceeds $180M, the starting rate would be 25% which is an eye opener. There is talk of the rate being higher if a team exceeds $180M by a larger amount. The Dodgers current $267M payroll would equal a tax of $21.75M at 5%.

    Even though most big market teams wouldn’t like this new playing field (especially the Dodgers but including the Phillies), I think this is good for the sport of baseball. A more competitive balance is vital for the sport which has been losing fan support to the NFL and NBA.

    1. Guru – I agree with you in that it would be good for the game but there will be a lot push back from the player’s union and I would think at least a half a dozen small market teams. A $100M floor would force a handful of clubs to double their payroll and another handful to increase their payroll by about 50%. I think for something like this to have a chance it would have to be phased in over a couple (several?) years.

      1. Already most of the big market teams are at the luxury tax limit. And you figure the Dodgers will try to reduce salaries in the coming future. So future salary gains will have to come from the other teams increasing their payroll. So if the player’s union want more salaries, they should agree to this plan.

        This plan will definitely be phased in. In my opinion, they can do it in the following 3 years. You could easily go $70M floor next year, $85M floor the following year, then $100M. As for teams over the limit, you give them a 1 year grace period. Then the following year down to say $200M, then $180M. Really, only the Dodgers would be hard pressed to reduce salaries. The other big market teams are already hovering around $200M.

        1. Why would the players union ever agree to lower the salary cap? Owners are going to be in for a work stoppage if they expect the players (and agents) to vote “yes” on cap reduction.

          1. Both parties won’t be happy. The players union obviously won’t like the tax at $180M and some owners won’t be happy with the floor at $100M.

            For the record, I do believe there will be some measure of a work stoppage which would be a huge mistake. MLB is bleeding fans. The Phillies announcers said that attendence at yesterday’s game was 7700! That is ridiculous. Nobody (including owners, players, MLB) should be happy about that.

            1. Listen … I’m sure the owners will make ridiculous opening proposals (and that’s what this is). But there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell the players would ever sign off on a lower LTT.
              As a matter of fact, I’d be shocked if the cap isn’t (at least) 220M in 2022.

            2. With regards to salary proposals floors and limits I’d like to hear from a math wizard.

              My trouble with either is how do you create an equitable system when you have so many guys obscenely overpaid relative to their production and so many obscenely under paid?

              Would players trade a non-guaranteed contract for no salary cap and say a floor of $100 Million

            3. DMAR … you’re basically asking if the MLBPA would go to an NFL system (salary cap, salary floor, and non guaranteed contracts)? The answer is no. Every major American sports league (other than the NFL) provides it’s athletes guaranteed deals. That’s not even negotiable if you’re the players union.

              BTW … there are only a handful (5?) of teams who are below $100M payrolls.
              I think the best the owners could get is harsher retribution for clubs exceeding the LTT. That could mean higher tax rates, and (more importantly) harsher draft pick & J2 penalties.

    2. This is brilliant by the MLB – they will break the union the way the NFL has – appeal to the lower salaried players by ensuring they get paid more. But lower overall salaries by setting the luxury tax much lower. Good job Dr. Evil – I mean Mr. Manfred.

  43. Spin rate just saying those two bear little of blame for this teams mediocrity.
    Several months ago I said this team in no mans land. I figure they should go for it next year and overspend just to say they tried then eat salaries and trade em all.

    Washington shows how much it helps to have competent GM. Won it tried for year now have major leg up on Phils on next championship run.

  44. Braves won and Phillies about to lose AGAIN

    This team is truly pathetic. They’ll be 3.5 out. Lifeless offense. No heart.

    Time to focus my attention to the farm. The big club sucks. Sorry for my negativity but how much longer is this organization going to field an underperforming team. This is year 10 with no light at the end of the tunnel.

  45. MLB Pipeline has updated their prospects lists.

    Top 100 has Mick Abel at #70. Stott is off the list due to the influx of draft picks.

    New Phillies top 10:

    Abel
    Stott
    Painter
    Crouse
    Morales
    Rojas
    Wilson
    Marchan
    Garcia
    Miller

    1. O’Hoppe is a very good prospect – I have him around 6 or so and I would also have Baylor around 10.

      1. Baylor is turning 21 next week. I know he’s a raw player, but would have liked for him to be doing it at Clearwater. He’s only played in 17 games.

        O’Hoppe will be interesting to watch in the next couple of years. He’ll likely “age up” to Reading next season.

        1. Right now, I’ve got O’Hoppe at 15, and Baylor at 27.

          1 Andrew Painter
          2 Mick Abel
          3 Johan Rojas
          4 Rafael Marchan
          5 Bryson Stott
          6 Hans Crouse
          7 Francisco Morales
          8 Luis Garcia
          9 Ethan Wilson
          10 Yhoswar Garcia
          11 Mickey Moniak
          12 Griff McGarry
          13 Simon Muzziotti
          14 Erik Miller
          15 Logan O’Hoppe
          16 Jhailyn Ortiz
          17 Christopher Sanchez
          18 Christian McGowan
          19 Casey Martin
          20 Jordan Viars
          21 Adonis Medina
          22 Andrew Baker
          23 Damon Jones
          24 Jordi Martinez
          25 Kendall Simmons
          26 Alexeis Azuaje
          27 Jamari Baylor
          28 Christian Hernandez
          29 Andrick Nava
          30 Micah Ottenbreit
          31 Jose Pena
          32 Kyle Dohy
          33 Ricardo Perez
          34 Ethan Lindow
          35 Yemal Flores
          36 Dominic Pipkin
          37 Erubiel Armenta
          38 Joalbert Angulo
          39 Gunner Mayer
          40 Billy Sullivan

          Next 5 in line:

          Jadiel Sanchez
          Logan Cerny
          Brett Schulze
          Ben Brown
          Jake McKenna

          1. Overall good approximation, Hinkie. As much as I like Marchan’s skill set, the consensus on him is as a longterm backup C. Plus, I don’t think a player should still be considered a prospect after a year on the 40man roster. (Same with Moniak.) Anywho, I don’t see how Marchan’s profile places him so high on this list. I’m not high on Morales as a top 10 prospect. The gap between his ceiling and floor is WAY too far. Luis Garcia may be the next Freddy Galvis. I would still drop him out of the top 10 as well.

  46. This Phillies offense makes bad pitchers look good (this series), and good pitchers look great (the Cincinnati series).
    C’mon … Humberto Castellanos? The guy was working 89-91 w/very little movement. The saddest thing: Castellanos (while he was in the game) nearly outhit the entire Phillies lineup.
    Castellanos … 2 hits
    Phillies lineup … 3 hits

    1. I thought the most interesting part of the game was Caleb Smith’s glove. I will give Odubel credit, he was the only one who actually looked alive and easy to pick out from the other Zombie’s.

  47. I don’t believe the team is this bad. All I can say in their defense is that they are pressing. Skeet and Hinkie – you guys stayed up pretty late to watch some very sad baseball. I tip my cap to both of you. (It’s not quite 10 pm here.)

  48. The Phillies are just dogging it, it’s sad to watch. Odubel was the only one who showed up tonight. Torreyes was looking bad and thankfully he got replaced by Bohm, who couldn’t make contact on two 89 MPH fastballs. It was a 3-1 count, Bohm must have been looking fastball I think, got a fastball right down the middle and swung out of his shoes and missed. Not sure why he’s not at Lehigh.

    1. Guru – I said Bohm and Lehigh Valley in the same sentence back in mid or late May and caught a lot of grief for it. LF was also in that sentence, which is what I think created most of the grief..

        1. Thanks. I’m not the biggest fan of west coast games because they end so late on Eastern time, and watching the Philies play like that is like kicking somebody when they’re down. But there’s always tomorrow.

      1. I got laughed at for saying it was a mistake to place the kid in the middle of the line up . . .

  49. Dave D more than likely will do what Chuck Fletcher has done with the Flyers….a change of the culture on this team via a change of personnel….this could be year four of a late season collapse.

    1. I still think he is because he (still only 30) offers the best combination of hitting and defense.

      However, since this is his first year of a 5 year deal, there are concerns. His defense is now about average, declining rapidly from 2 years ago. He hasn’t thrown out baserunners at his usual clip. He still has time to pick up his offense, but his current WAR of 2.5 would be one of his lowest in recent memory. The Phillies are paying him to be a 4 WAR player, not a 2 WAR.

      JT’s main competition for BCIB is Salvador Perez. Perez is having a better year. Willson Contreras’ dWar is spectacular so overall, he’s having a better year.

      1. There’s also competition from Will Smith because the Dodgers just produce talent like it’s coming off an assembly line. Only Buster Posey has a higher fWAR this year for catchers than Smith. Omar Narvaez also belongs in the conversation.

    2. I don’t want to knock JT as he is really good but in my eyes he was never as good defensively as say Yadier or offensively as Posey

      Posey had 2 peak WAR seasons of 7.6 and 5.9 44.2 WAR over 12 seasons

      Yadier had 2 peak WAR seasons of 7.2 and 6.2 and his 41.8 WAR over 18 seasons which is respectable.

      JT’s 2 peak WAR seasons so far were 4.5 and 4.6

      1. JT may be the best catcher in baseball right now but he is not, has not been, and does not project to be a superstar – he’s a very good player and probably worth the contract, if just barely.

  50. v1, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But, this year’s collapse does seem a little different. We actually added at the trade deadline, and I still have no quarrel with what we did. Did we need more, sure, and if it took Abel to do that, I would have also passed. The approach to hitting has been terrible. When they were hot, there was a lot of opposite field hitting. That is when Realmuto is at his best, likewise Bryce, and when healthy, Hoskins. These past 2 games have seen an inability to catch up to 89 MPH FBs. How does that happen? Why is there no juice from these guys? How did Atlanta go and get 3 bats at the deadline? Why are they so much better than we are, even with Pitching injuries, and losing Acuna? v1, Hinkie, Romus, DMAR, mark, all of you. Where do we even begin to fix what is wrong with this team? I wanted to go for the Division, I fully admit that.

    1. matt13…..why is Atlanta so much better?
      I suppose the obvious is there to see….over the last 6/7 years , they did well in drafting, trades, and international signings……and on the margins (short contracts) with FA signings to stay within their budget.

    2. Well clearly I was preaching that for months and months and wanted to sell off just about anything worth selling with an MLB salary.

      But you Matt said we would probably get fleeced because clearly we don’t have personnel to pull off such trades.

      I think you were right my friend!

      1. Thanks DMAR, I wish I had more faith. With the exception of Eflin, what prospect have we received in a trade that can help us? We got 6 Players for Cole Hamels, and Alfaro was part of getting JTR, but I don’t consider Alfaro to be a high level player. That was Ruben. The Giles trade got a number of players, with Vinny being the best of a very low bar. That was Klentak. We do have a long history of being on the wrong end of sending out prospects that later became good, and sometimes, great players. I was afraid trading McCutchen would have gotten us the next Nick Williams, or trading Nola would have gotten us the next Mark Appel and Enyel De Lo Santos. I am hoping that Hans Crouse is the exception!

        1. Matt I don’t like to compare past trades from past regimes to current day. You need to be careful there….

          1. You are completely correct. My belief that Dombrowski was not brought in to effectuate another rebuild is a whole separate thing from my emotional scars from past mistakes. Someone in the organization identified Crouse, and pushed for his inclusion in the Howard deal. So, there is hope there.

        2. Beware 5 for 1 type trades. When I see a team trade it’s best player for like 5 level B prospects that’s the kiss of death. That’s a GM trying to rebuild his team with one trade. It almost always ends in disaster. Hamels, Schilling and old Tom Seaver trades. All 5 for 1. All disasters. Two grade A prospects are generally worth MUCH more than 5 grade B prospects.

          1. There are those few, exceptions to the rule, that do work out, in the long run….normally not at first for the team trading the superstar……one that comes to mind was the Bartolo trade, the first one…..Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips…the second trade, year or two later to the WSox. not so much.

          2. I wonder what the Astros offer was for Hamels. History might be very different if Cole had been willing to go there. Texas’ top two or three prospects were supposedly off limits in those negotiations. Generally I agree that it’s better to bring back a couple elite prospects than a bunch of very good ones.

    3. I have made this argument several times. This is the same positional lineup as last year. Our offense is inconsistent because it is top heavy. Our defense is terrible. The answer to your question about the Braves is defense. The Braves are a +21 DRS and the Phillies are a -39. Klentak’s strategy was that we could outhit our poor defense but that was wrong last year. And we have not changed a thing for this season. Bohm was clearly not a 3B last year. And one of the best 3Bs in baseball was traded this past offseason for very little in prospect compensation to the Cards. Rhys has never been a good first baseman. Cutch is a DH. Didi has aged poorly. We also started this season with mostly the same bullpen. A few additions bug not much changed. It’s the same story over and over.

      1. One of Klentak’s gems that people forget about is that he justified moving Hoskins to the OF with data that said fewer balls were being hit there so OF defense doesn’t matter. That and the “finding value at the margins” comment about Santana are my two lowlights.

  51. Man, Freddie Freeman is incredible. He’s back up to .300 and then he hits for the cycle. The Braves are so fortunate to have him. Steady, works hard, and leads.

    And where do the Dodgers come up with these guys? White? Bruil? Both pitched very well last night. Do they just go into the sock drawer and pull them out?

      1. I would be very surprise if that happens.
        The odds that a 32-year old Freddy Freeman bolts from Atlanta as a free agent …are very slim.
        Atlanta should easily sign him at 4 yrs./$88M

  52. It is hard to fathom how poor of a job that MacPhail and Klentak did. Hard to believe, Harry, to quote the great Whitey Ashburn!. I remember when jim would get upset with some of us who referred to them collectively as MacKlentak. But, in every aspect of team building, scouting and talent evaluating, development, scouting at the Major League level, implementation of an organizational philosophy, everything with the exception of adding an analytics department, Andy MacPhail and Matt Klentak failed.

    1. I don’t recall Jim getting upset at using a collective name for them. I DO remember people using other disparaging names which are uncalled for. The same as calling another poster names even if they’re asking for ridiculous trade scenarios (“Mike Trout for Dylan Cozens, Ben Lively, Carlos Tocci, and Andrew Knapp” in 2016, as a random example).

      Saying someone is doing a poor job or making unrealistic claims/demands is one thing. It’s just about respecting them as a person. Criticize their moves or inaction all you want. Just do it without petty insults or bringing personal details into it.

      At least, that’s what I remember about it.

        1. Something about that reminds me of Young Frankenstein, whenever someone said the name, “Frau Blucher” (Cloris Leachman’s character who was a bit ofa hag), a horse would neigh with annoyance. And especially when Marty Feldman did it intentionally…those eyes. Classic entertainment.

  53. Its one thing to have analytics I mean I’m pretty sure all clubs have access to the data being produced. Its an entirely different thing to interpret and implement the data so that its actionable for the human athlete.

    To my point yesterday about what is it that the Rays do better than most. Clearly we reached the conclusion that they don’t drat all that well.

    Maybe its that their secret sauce is in the above…

    1. There’s definitely proprietary information that we, and other teams, don’t have access to. At least, any decently funded analytics department SHOULD have some. That’s half of what an analytics department does (the other half being to interpret the data, as you mentioned).

      It very well could be that the Rays have some literal geniuses that have found some kind of statistic that predicts major league success at an abnormally high rate. If that’s the case, I hope there are some books written about them after they retire. I love being able to expand my knowledge about baseball.

      1. They seem to be able to trade and come out on the favorable side of it.
        i mean…..who could see a journeyman 27-year old guy……who played his college ball at Div 3, 4 or 5 or whatever, and of all places as a West Chester University Ram….becoming what he has become in the last 4 years….a 10WAR player.

        Phillies need to find those Max Muncy, Luke Voit , Gio Urshela or Justin Turners of the world. maybe, the next Jayson Werth may be right on the horizon.

  54. Vito Friscia – I know he is 24 and in High A, but should we keep an eye on this 40th round pick?

      1. LOL fair enough, just trying to find some hope in this organization.

        Any word if Painter will pitch this year?

  55. There’s lots of chatter here about how TB and other quality orgs reach/sustain success. For one thing, they don’t “go for it” every year when it’s painfully obvious to everyone else in the MLB that they have little to no chance. I understand that as fans, it can be hard to see beyond “this year” every year, but good leadership is visionary. The last two FO’s failed because they were not wise enough to pull the plug and begin the rebuild earlier and they were unable to be creative/bold enough to accumulate (and develop) long-term talent throughout the rebuild.

    Sadly though, here we are with another new FO and we are operating with the same “insanity” (as V1 references). I can’t impress enough how badly we missed our opportunity in July to leverage this new FO to start charting a course for 2022 & beyond. Either we have no visionaries in this org or their voice never wins out.

    I’ll re-paste part of one of my posts from a couple weeks ago.

    We might have…

    > Gained at least one quality prospect for McCutchen.
    > Maybe? gotten a lottery ticket for Bradley or Miller oe Herrera, etc. (or packaged couple)
    > Been bold and traded Segura IF it was a worthwhile sell-high deal (I.e. for two quality prospects – at least one near-mlb ready)
    > Tried to pull a creative miracle and eaten all of this years $ and 25%-50% of next year $ just to get rid of Gregorius.

    > Plus we’d still have Howard, Gowdy, & Gutierrez!

    > Also, of lesser importance but still of value, we’d improve our draft position and pool.

    Yes the FO has botched the rebuild but they also hindered it by making big signings before they were ready and “going for it” every year. Patience and better l/t strategic planning should have won out.

  56. Reading has an interesting stable of starting arms: Francisco Morales, Hans Crouse, Colton Eastman, Jack Perkins, Josn Hendrickson.

    Not sure what will happen but hopefully some of them will take a step forward and that the Phillies don’t have to bottom feed for arms like Chase Anderson or Matt Moore.

  57. The Phillies are in the worst position in professional sports: the middle. Andy MacPhail and Matt Klentak were the Ozzie and Harriet of rebuilding. They were waaaay too vanilla. IMO, they got outhustled by the rest of the rebuilding clubs (Braves/Padres/ChiSox/Blue Jays).

    Middleton isn’t going to start another rebuild right now, I agree with Romus. Dave Dombrowski has got to import some heart, some attitude, a player(s) who have a history of winning.

    For a couple of months now, I’ve felt/posted Josh Donaldson would fit what the Phillies need. He (and his bloated contract) could even lessen the prospect capital the team would have to surrender in a potential Byron Buxton deal this winter.
    Also … Nelson Cruz, Chris Taylor, Kyle Schwarber, and Justin Verlander are available in free agency (and will not be anchored with a QO).
    Any of Donaldson/Cruz/Taylor/Schwarber/Verlander would help change the culture in the Phillies clubhouse.

    The team is going to have to remain “all in” for the next year or two. They can always sell after that.

    1. Hinkie,I can agree with the idea of chasing a package of Donaldson and Buxton in the offseason. I like both as well. However, it’ll require financial flexibility and prospects to trade. Moves in July that would have provided DD with more financial wiggle-room and also equipped him with more, not less, assets to trade from, would have helped. I understand with Harper, JTR, & Wheler’s investments, we need to try to win, but a realistic plan to win “soon” rather than a desperate effort to win “now” may prove a better plan.

    2. Please no Buxton the guy is never healthy and as the great Dan O’Dowd says the best predictor of future injuries is past injuries

      and probably exactly why Friedman hedged his position with Turner. Seager is another great talent that misses far too many games due to injury to hand out a major LTD

  58. Romus………..if you impugn a pitcher’s character (Smith’s) by confiscating his glove shouldn’t you be obligated to publicize the findings/analysis or exonerate him. In Santiago’s case they didn’t even have it analyzed.

    1. Skeet…..in the real world yes….but under the MLB charter, probably not.
      if he is suspended and loses money I think a grievance entails thru MLBPA and then the findings are made public.
      Have to assume it comes down to any lost wages.

  59. Hinkie, this off season will need John Middleton to decide that the LT threshold is not going to hold back Dombrowski. The moves made at this season’s trade deadline did not get us over. The money back from Texas in the trade insured that. I know we jettison some salaries after the season, but there is a lot that we need.

  60. 6 innings, a lead off Double by Segura who doesn’t move from 2B, then zero more hits. MadBum thinks he went back in time 4-5 years.

  61. All MLB teams endure sluggish stretches throughout the long schedule and manage to lose games they should normally win. But for a decade now, this entire freakin’ team shuts down completely. EVERYBODY’s pulse is flatlining. Our best pitcher can’t be just excellent…he HAS to be perfect. I agree with an above comment that the culture here MUST change in the off season. Nola is a solid #3 pitcher on a good team but that sour puss cries out, “Get me outta here!” There are legitimate arguments about holding on to value in controllable talent like his. But dang! Let’s pump some adrenalin into this organization. One thing I’m becoming more certain about…Joe Girardi will be among the first to go. It’s the historical narrative. He’s not to blame for what he doesn’t have to work with but part of the job is to create some tension when things need shaking up, other than the lackluster lineup. Through 25 innings at Arizona so far, the Phillies have collected 8 hits and 4 runs. We can’t blame the pitching this time…

  62. Our SP has to be perfect! Did anyone, because I surely did not, see us getting swept by the DBacks? I know teams slump, and I know hitting a baseball is hard, but these are professional players, and not only can’t they hit 89 MPH FBs, they are playing with such little energy. Arizona is one of the worst teams in the league and we were in a supposed Playoff push, and we stink out the place like this?

  63. Who said, grow the arms and buy the bats?……….well, we have an awful lot of purchasing ahead of us!

  64. Also, why do we need to be subjected to Enyel yet again? Throws gasoline on the fire every time out. I am sure he is a great guy, but come on. Not that I thought we would overcome a 3 or 4 run deficit, let alone 6, but every time I see JoeG go to him I think he has given up on the game. 1 leadoff hit, then nothing, and they should be embarrassed. Starting with Middleton. It is ironic, but coming off the 8 game winning streak, and being in 1st Place, Rhys Hoskins talked about how great it would be to play in front of the fans at CBP with the team in first place. Of course, he missed the entire homestand with an injury, and the season will most likely be over by the time they get back home.

  65. Spencer Howard 2ip, 5 er today. I feel for him and his dad. Hoping he can turn it around in the off-season.

    1. Unfortunately Spencer IMO has been injured for awhile. This is a young man who plays Ulimate…. you know like 1 on 1 basketball for forty minutes on a court the size of a soccer field, and he is blaming losing velocity after a couple of innings on stamina. Hopefully his shoulder, or whatever it is, will recover.

  66. Phillies offense ⤵

    .

    … and when it rains, it pours. 64 YO Tom Hallion ranks as one of the ten most inaccurate home plate umpires (thanks to DMAR for that Umpire Scorecard site). His blown strike three call on Christian Walker to open the 7th inning ended up costing Zack Wheeler (and the Phillies) 5 runs. It may have been the difference in the game.

    1. Speaking of offense … Pirates 2nd round pick (and former Malvern Prep star and PSU WR recruit) Lonnie White began his pro career today.

      1. My brother in law is a lifelong Pirates fan (poor guy). Thanks for posting these. I’m trying to encourage him to have hope as their latest draft may be incredible!

        1. LOL, John. I went to school in western PA. I know a ton of Pirate fans too. As a matter of fact, I went to school with the Pirates PA announcer. I also know the Steelers PA announcer.

          1. Hinkie….then you know, being from out there, Primanti sandwich country…..only sports’ city in US where all its current professional teams….do not count their past B-ball team…….all have the same team colors…..I know, some say yellow not gold, but come on…looks all gold to me!

            1. … and it’s not soda, it’s pop. And they’re not sneakers, they’re tennies. And it’s not a bag, it’s a sack. And Iron City is (or was when I was out there) the king of beers.

  67. The good news for you on the east coast, at least you did not have to stay up until midnight to watch this.

    I am going to repeat something I said earlier. The team is pressing. If there is a reason to fault Joe G. it is not getting the team to relax and just play baseball.

    1. So the irony will be …they go into San Diego and sweep the Padres since they also seem to be in a free-fall.
      So if that should happen…..will that spark the flames of excitement again!

      1. Doubt it, the starter on the grill is a little lackadaisical, click…click…click….click, hand me the bic starter please!

      2. Romus – Come Monday morning, if the Phillies are anything less than four back of the Braves, I’d consider that a major triumph.

      3. There literally are no words. I’m still clinging to the magic 15 games and trying to ignore this poor showing in the desert…

      4. Lol. It wouldn’t surprise me. And given Rhys returns today and the Padres are struggling, it’s not as far fetched as it sounds.

    2. Spin, that’s where an old laid back guy like Charley Manuel or Mackanin can be valuable.

  68. Romus, if the sweep in SD is matched by the O’s sweeping the Braves, then yes. What do you think those odds are?

    1. It appears they have one trait in common, ……….neither one can score in their respective sport!

  69. So Jim, what were you saying about the Phillies playing down to the level of their competition?

  70. Umpire missing strike 3 and/or DLS allowing two inherited runners to score could have ramifications on Wheeler’s chances of CY award. His final line was not fair.

  71. mlb.com put out Top 30 lists. Painter and Hans Crouse make the Top 5, Painter at #3 and Crouse at #4. Muzziotti one ahead of Mickey #17 vs #18. Does anyone have any thoughts about the list? McGowan and Viars at #22 and 23 for other newcomers. Stott with an ETA of next season. I think that’s a bit optimistic.

    1. For Stott’s ETA, I think he’ll make his debut in 2022, but I don’t think he’ll be a starter until 2023.

    2. The top 10 is pretty close to my own. I think I have O’Hoppe in it over Garcia, and Painter at 2 over Stott.

      I’m not ranking Medina, who’s an eyelash from org filler, and I’m lower on Casey Martin who will probably never hit in AA. Jamari Baylor is older, raw and missed a ton of development time so he’s not making my list. Llovera? No. Vierling and Dohy? Also no. Lindow’s season has disappointed. I like Rosso probably more than the Phillies do considering they removed him from the 40 man for some fungible reliever who’s name I forget. I still have Brito ranked in the top 25 even though I don’t know if he’ll even play again. I’m ranking Pipkin and Jadiel Sanchez somewhere in there.

        1. And where would the ‘Pigs be without his 9.24 ERA?

          I said at the time that it seemed like a very Klentak move to DFA somebody in order to pick up a pitcher who’s older, has worse stuff and has no track record of success.

  72. So the Reds finally got tired of our old friend Heath Hembree and DFAd him….who then was signed by the Mets and then put Jacob deGrom on the 60 day IL in a corresponding move!

    1. Looks like he Mets will do everything in their power to avoid TJ for deGrom
      They now extended him to Sept 13 as a return off the IL…..by then their season , like the Phillies, in the NL-East may be over with two weeks left
      So doubt he pitches again this season..

  73. The fact that Painter is #3 in in Phils farm tells me just how pathetic Phils system is. The only drought that will be worse than Phils between championships is out in western states.

    1. He’s the recent first rd pick. If he wasn’t 3rd (behind the other two most recent 1st rd picks), I’d be very upset at the pick.

    2. Why is that pathetic? Most first round picks have very high ceilings so most of them will be ranked pretty high in the system to start. For example:

      #8 Benny Montgomery -> #2 for Rockies
      #9 Sam Backman -> #3 Angels
      #11 Brady House -> #4 Nationals
      #12 Harry Ford -> #6 Mariners
      #14 Will Bednar -> #7 Giants
      #15 Sal Frelick -> #2 Brewers
      #16 Kahlil Watson – > #1 Marlins
      #17 Matt McLain -> #4 Reds

  74. I drove thru Death Valley 40 years ago. Unfortunately in a dodge coronet that would overheat if I went over 10 mph. That’s a long ride when traveling in the shoulder next to desert.

    1. Sounds like a Phillies fan that paid a kid 50 cents to watch that Coronet at 21st and Lehigh.

  75. Kind of a desperate move. He really is not a CF but the Phillies want a right handed hitter against Snell who beat them in Philly and had a very good outing last time out. What’s the over-under for runs scored tonight? Two and a half?

    1. This is a desperate move but the Phillies needed to do something. And I imagine after getting smoked by fastballs yesterday, Odubel and Didi are less than 100%.

  76. Not sure how they pulled that win off, or that they really deserved it. They gave up 10 BBs and 1 HB. But … we’ll take it.
    Matt Moore pitched pretty well again.
    Maybe Romus is right: lose three to DBacks, then win three in SD.

    1. Hinkie…..at 1:10AM this morning when Archie B. walked the lead-off hitter in the bottom of the 8th, witha Phillies 4-2 lead…I said to myself…..I am done with this …….turned the TV off rolled over and went to sleep
      Saw this morning they held own…..no thanks to umpiring that is so questionable.

      Will see what they do these next two games,
      …..also, I believe Aaron Nola will pitch to his brother, Austin, for the first time this weekend…..I am not sure about that,

    2. Watching Moore pitch is like watching a LL team that has a 12 YO that has a Looping curve ball get kids out and can throw a FB maybe for a strike, exactly like last night. 2 times thru the lineup and threw a FB DOWN the middle to Machado.
      Joe continues to try to get ONE more time thru the lineup and fails. BP has gotten better, early season woes are gone. Use the BP
      They have the arms, bench players are scarce so use them.

      Why let Moore hit, k looking then let him come out only to walk leadoff hitter. Waste of OUTS

      Williams needs to play OMG Bohm is struggling send him to LV before Sept Grind

  77. So, let’s say the Phillies realistically split these last 2 vs the Padres while the Braves beat up on the O’s. Monday morning we would wake up 5 games back. The Phillies then host the Rays for 2 (split, maybe?) then a string against weak teams (can they at least take 3 of 4 from the Dbacks here?!?!). Meanwhile the Braves host the hot NYY for 2 games, then a luke warm Gabe’s Gang for 3 before going to Dodger Stadium for 3, followed by their own stretch of games against very weak teams. These next 10 days are crucial for the Phillies to remain relevant in the playoff race.

    1. Got a good chuckle out of that one Denny.. I could barely stay up to watch the end of the game here in San Diego.! If Mickey played On the west coast I don’t know how many games I’d be finishing!! Haha. I was just thinking if a parent lived on the east coast and their son played on the west coast that would be tough.. and as far as my Madres, like we used to say back in my broker days, the Padres are sinking like a sewer cover in the ocean.. Oh man.

      1. Nice analogy Matt. If Mickey was playing I would take a nap and get up to watch him on the west coast.

      2. The quality and pace of play on this west coast trip give Phillies fans jet lag without having to leave their living rooms.

          1. I bet! That would be very tough. Tough loss last night. I’m just hoping the Padres and the Phillies can both go to the playoffs! That would work for me . Phillies have a good team just need to put it together at the same time and go on a run here. Padres need to do the same thing.. I will be happy when this series is over

  78. Romus maybe it should be opportunistic… they seem to be able to beat teams playing worse then themselves

        1. Hinkie…..what does your crystal ball say about Austin Nola facing his little brother? LOL

  79. Phillies are putting on a real hitting display. Not with their bats, of course, but with their elbows, feet, and other body parts.

    1. I’m sorry but I don’t agree. I have to give my guy a chance to get his complete game since he was dealing the whole night.

      If the Phillies lose this game, it’ll look bad but I guarantee you, the people in the clubhouse won’t be blaming him at all.

      1. On my team complete games don’t equal more than a W, and certainly not if we are in a division race.

        1. And if Ian Kennedy came in (after getting 4 outs last night) and blows the save, JoeG would have gotten ripped for not leaving in Nola for the ninth.

      2. This is about the team not having a really reliable and dominant closer and several strong bullpen options. If the bullpen was stronger, a reliver would have come in after the walk and closed out the game (his pitch count was really getting high – it was time). Girardi was between a rock and a hard place last night – his options were not great, as the outcome proved.

    1. I like Cutch but he’s finished. Platinum sombrero tonight? Pretty sure Bonifacio will be in LF tomorrow.

      1. I like McCutchen too but he’s the type of player bad management pay $15 million for when you can get the same productivity from a guy making $5 million.

        Overpayment for past performance.

        1. This is what FA is all about, paying for past performance.

          I didn’t have too much of a problem giving Cutch a 3 year deal. He was coming off 2.5 WAR his previous season, and he was entering his age 32 season so it wasn’t too bad. And he was really playing well his first season in Philadelphia before he got seriously hurt. That much pretty much killed his performance for the rest of the contract. I think if Cutch didn’t get hurt, we might be singing a different tune about his contract.

  80. So … Andrew Knapp contributes absolutely nothing with the bat. His defense is terrible (Jorge Alfaro laughs at Knapp’s glove). What exactly is he contributing to this team … other than placing the homer hat on the heads of the club’s actual hitters? He’s the reason JTR is so worn down. Give me Rafael Marchan as the team’s #2 catcher.

    And Brad Miller error was the key play in that game. He gave life to the Padres.

    Also … not to be overlooked … excellent debut by young Patrick McCarthy. PMac sounded great. He’s got a bright future.

    1. JT is not worn down because of Knapp. JT is worn down because nobody else in the lineup (outside of Harper and maybe Odubel) are hitting. So JoeG needs his bat in the lineup. Now does this mean that I still want Knapp as the #2 catcher? LIkely not. His bat is a mess right now. But it’s not like Marchan is hitting lights out either with a .681 OPS this season and a .492 OPS at Lehigh.

      1. True – maybe Marchan won’t outhit Knapp by much, but at least he will likely give the team a better glove behind the plate.

        1. Of course Knapp is the reason Girardi can’t give Realmuto days off. The drop off between JTR and Knapp is drastic. Knapp is incapable of getting the ball out of the infield. His defense is also a killer. You ignore the difference in the “D” Marchan gives this team. Knapp gives the Phillies practically nothing.

          1. Knapp is probably seen as a future coach somewhere, perhaps sooner than later. Perhaps in the Phillies organization. He’s liked. The Phillies seem to like likable guys. That’s fine. But when likability is prioritized over performance on the field, losing will happen. Falling out of contention will happen. It’s happening now. Unfortunately the Phillies don’t have much to replace the likables except with kids like Marchan. So let the kids get the experience where veterans aren’t producing. McCutchen is done. Let Moniak play. Because at this point, if we’re banking on a resurgent Cutch to rally around in some mishmash playoff run, what legitimate hope is there, really? And while you have Marchan (and not Knapp) spelling JTR behind the plate, let Realmuto play 1b instead of Miller. How many wins will you have with half a lineup of bench players and AAAA guys? Not many. Why should we expect any more?

            1. IMO….just sign one of these four vet catchers in the off-season….should not cost that much….Yan Gomes (34)….Manny Pina (34)….Austin Romine (33)…….Kurt Suzuki (38).

          2. The drop between JTR and Marchan is not as drastic I agree but the gap is still pretty large.

            Anyways, we’re ragging about a backup catcher when we should be focusing on the starters i.e Cutch, Didi, Bohm. We wouldn’t be caring that much about Knapp if those 3 guys I mentioned were producing WAR at a starter level.

  81. Knapp has got to, Coach what value can’t hit can’t hit. Sorry great value but cheerleading is not a coaching position
    Joe a Players coach but W’s are what we need. Joe continues to leave pitchers too long, thought the large Pitching Depth was suppose to be a strength.
    Team is OLD, watching Cutch, DiDi, Miller makes me hurt and OMG Herrera is unwatchable you think he’d be been shot the limping around embarrassing
    Please make changes because they cannot put ball in play to score
    Jank and Williams at least bring energy andhope but No they sit

    1. Before this season, Knapp was positive oWar and dWar for 2020 and 2019. So there is no doubt that he should be on the roster for 2021 when the season started. Now whether or not he should be on the roster for 2022 is another story. If he isn’t, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

      I don’t understand the slam against Odubel. He’s playing hurt (with a bum ankle and sore elbow), he has a 1.024 OPS in August and he has 1.7 WAR.

      As for Jankowski, he’s a backup. He may be playing with “energy” but he’s already getting exposed playing too much with his 0.4 WAR. And you know he’s about the same age as Odubel right?

      As for Williams, looks like he has a ceiling of a backup. So if you want to play Williams because of his “energy”, I guess you can do that. Just don’t expect too much production. I mean as much as I like Torreyes, he’s posting 0.4 WAR which is more or less what backups will do.

      1. “I mean as much as I like Torreyes, he’s posting 0.4 WAR which is more or less what backups will do.”…to be fair when using WAR have to pro-rate it and his PAs (247) vs say Cutch that is 441…..so he would grade out with the added PAs at almost a 1 WAR player…..still not great but sure, beats the negative WAR of Didi and Bohm, and also zero WAR for Brad Miller.

        1. In general, I don’t even want to grade backups because they are not the reason why the team wins or loses (it’s the starters that really matter). But backups won’t play an entire season anyways, and you don’t want them to play an entire season or else they get exposed.

          Remember Greg Dobbs in 2008 for the Phillies? He was a really good bench player and pinch hitter who had a .824 OPS in 128 games (240 plate appearances). In short, he was spectacular for the Phillies, and one of the best in the last 20 years for the Phillies I think. His WAR was 0.8.

  82. I know Knapp has done a poor job, but there are a lot more significant reasons that we are simply a barely .500 team. 4 hits, a leadoff HR, a 2B from. Ola and 2 Harper hits. Zero from the rest of the team. Miller and Torryes have done their jobs this season byt too much playing time exposes why they are part time players, helpful in small doses. As good as Torryes has been, he needed to make that play on Frazier in the 10th. Miller makes Rhys look like a good First Baseman! Just a brutal loss. I stayed up to watch so I blame myself. Had I gone to sleep they probably would have won! I felt absolutely sick for Nola after he pitched so great.

    1. matt13….one thing proven to AJ Preller from last night’s performance by Aaron Nola…..Preller may give an arm (CJ Abrams) and leg (Robert Hassell) to have Nola as a battery mate with his brother for next season.

      Now I am sounding like DMAR…..:)

    2. This is exactly what I’ve been saying for years. Starters are the ones that matter. Backups are marginal additions, and you don’t want them to play too much.

    1. Long overdue for the Bohm move……a few posters on here have been suggesting that since July.

  83. Romus, it’s about a month overdue. I am sorry Bohm has not hit but it was doing both him and the team no good playing him sparingly. He needs to regain his swing and the organization needs to figure out where he can play. I know about Sophomore slumps but the guy he finished 2d to in the ROY race is having a pretty good season.

    1. I agree 100%. Bohm can play everyday at Lehigh and get the reps he needs to improve offensively and defensively. Having him sit on the bench the last 2 weeks to “reset” has done nothing for him.

      It’ll be interesting to see where he plays in ST. If they give him reps in LF, then we’ll know our answer.

  84. On the list, and it is long, of the deficiencies with this team is dumb baseball. Just fundamentals that are lacking. Today, Odubel doesn’t seem to know what base to throw to, yhen he grabs a fly ball that Jankowski really should have gotten because he would then have a better chance to nail the runner tagging up. Odubel had zero chance. And the lack of timely hitting is appalling.

    1. matt13…….2022– if on the team, Didi, Cutch and Doobie…..total $40M.
      Or buyouts for Doobie and Cutch…total $5.5M

  85. No question, Romus, goodbye to Odubel and Cutch, and if we can move Didi for anything, even eating half his salary, I do that too. We need a top SS, and they are out there. The organization has to be realistic and honest with itself, and pencil Stott in at 2B. He won’t be ready next year. Bohm in LF?, Mickey and Haseley platoon in CF? I honestly don’t know what we do in the OF. We desperately, and that is the right word, need a young guy tonplay well.

    1. matt13…..for team fiscal ease or survival under the threshold, whatever that number will be after the next CBA,, …..guys like Bohm, Moniak, Haseley and Stott need to make it as starters.

  86. Odubel, 3 for 4 with 3 RBI’s. This is next years CF. If we had Gibson all year we would be in 1st place.

    1. All I can say is that I hope Odubel stays hot for the rest of the season.

      Gibson is a true veteran. Not really overpowering but he mixes his pitches really well and he has a feel for pitching. Any young pitcher should be taking notes.

  87. In his five games with the Phillies, Gibson has thrown 31 inning giving up 13 earned runs for a 3.77 ERA. Of the 13 earned runs, six came against the Dodgers back in mid August.

  88. Wayne, it never fails! As soon as I say to move on from a player, he does well. That was not reverse psychology, I wish it was. I think Odubel is elsewhere next season, but I am very happy he had a good game today. I think we are set in the SR for next year. What happens elsewhere is a great question.

  89. If Odubel stays hot and finishes the year with say 2.5 WAR, that’s not easy to replace. You can’t expect Moniak/Haseley/Bonifacio/Williams/Jankowski/Randolph/Vierling to do that since they never did it before. Odubel’s option is $11.5M with $2.5M buyout. So picking up his option is like giving him a 1 year, $9M contract. In that respect, I think the odds have ticked up that the Phillies will pick up his option. The only way the Phillies will get close to 2.5 WAR in CF for 2022 is picking up Odubel’s option or signing a FA CF.

    On the other hand, Cutch is giving the Phillies 1.2 WAR. You can definitely try to replace that internally.

  90. Team is so frustrating. 1 out away from sweeping the Padres … but we’re swept by the freaking dbacks…. Arrrrrrrgh. End rant, but I know most of you fellas fell that. This team, feels like the 2007-2011 Mets

  91. Quickly went thru Phillies’ & Braves” schedules for rest of this year. Phillies might go 25-13 & Braves 20-17. End in virtual tie at 88-74.

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