Open Discussion: Week of July 25, 2021

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other baseball topics.  Draft discussion is in a separate thread.


The Phillies (49-49) dropped two winnable games to the Yankees.  Then, worked hard to get a split with the Atlanta team.  They are four games behind the first-place Mets.  They lead the Atlanta team by one game, and the Nationals by three.  Looks like the Phillies will be buyers this week.


Key Dates:

  • July 30, 2021: Trade Deadline (4 p.m. ET)
  • August 1, 2021: Signing deadline for 2021 drafted players
  • Oct. 3, 2021: Regular season concludes

Transactions (last week’s transactions)

7/25/2021 – Phillies activated RHP Chase Anderson
7/25/2021 – Phillies optioned LHP Cristopher Sanchez to Lehigh Valley
7/25/2021 – Phillies placed CF Travis Jankowski on the 10-day IL
7/25/2021 – Phillies recalled CF Mickey Moniak from Lehigh Valley
7/25/2021 – RHP Victor Vargas assigned to Lehigh Valley from Clearwater
7/24/2021 – Phillies claimed RHP Tyler Phillips off waivers from Texas
7/24/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed C Tyler Heineman on the 7-day IL
7/24/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed 2B Jake Elmore on the 7-day IL
7/24/2021 – 2B Sal Gozzo assigned to Lehigh Valley from Jersey Shore
7/24/2021 – RHP Tyler Phillips assigned to Reading
7/24/2021 – Clearwater placed CF Johan Rojas on the 7-day IL
7/24/2021 – Clearwater placed RHP Leonel Aponte on the 7-day IL
7/24/2021 – SS Kervin Pichardo assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/24/2021 – RHP Sam Jacobsak assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/23/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Mauricio Llovera to Lehigh Valley
7/23/2021 – Phillies activated 3B Alec Bohm
7/23/2021 – RHP Noah Skirrow assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
7/23/2021 – RHP Chi-Ling Hsu assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/23/2021 – SS Guarner Dipre assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
7/22/2021 – Phillies activated CF Odubel Herrera
7/22/2021 – Phillies sent 3B Alec Bohm on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
7/22/2021 – Phillies optioned SS Nick Maton to Lehigh Valley
7/22/2021 – Lehigh Valley released 3B Austin Listi
7/22/2021 – Lehigh Valley released RHP Bryan Mitchell
7/22/2021 – Lehigh Valley released RF Ryan Cordell
7/22/2021 – 2B Daniel Brito assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
7/22/2021 – RHP Braden Zarbnisky assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
7/22/2021 – OF Jorge Bonifacio assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
7/22/2021 – LF Matt Kroon assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
7/22/2021 – RHP Carlo Reyes assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
7/22/2021 – RHP DJ Jefferson assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/22/2021 – Clearwater released RHP Alejandro Made
7/21/2021 – Phillies recalled RHP Spencer Howard from Lehigh Valley
7/21/2021 – Phillies optioned CF Mickey Moniak to Lehigh Valley
7/20/2021 – Phillies sent CF Odubel Herrera on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
7/20/2021 – Phillies placed RHP Zach Eflin on the 10-day IL, patella tendonitis
7/20/2021 – Phillies activated RHP Aaron Nola from the 10-day IL
7/20/2021 – Phillies recalled RHP Mauricio Llovera from Lehigh Valley
7/20/2021 – Phillies recalled CF Mickey Moniak from Lehigh Valley
7/20/2021 – Phillies placed LHP Bailey Falter on the 10-day IL
7/20/2021 – Phillies placed RHP JD Hammer on the 10-day IL
7/20/2021 – Reading activated RHP Billy Sullivan from the 7-day IL
7/20/2021 – RHP Carlos A Francisco assigned to Clearwater from Jersey Shore
7/20/2021 – RHP Wilson Gherbaz assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
7/19/2021 – Jersey Shore sent 3B Chris Cornelius on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
7/19/2021 – C Mitchell Edwards assigned to FCL Phillies
7/11/2021 – DSL Red released SS Raulyn Blanc

826 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 25, 2021

  1. There will be a few trades this week and we will lose some prospects. Have to trust that DD has evaluated future upside well.

  2. Jim first have you seen Victor Vargas? Second i dont remember a guy going from low a to triple a, unless its just one start, or is he consider that good, ty

    1. Yes, Rocco, I have. He’s a low 90s guy who has decent control. He was promoted because it was his turn to start and Lehigh Valley needed a body on the mound. He’ll likely stay until the Lehigh staff gets pitchers back from IL, etc. Since Monday’s an off day in the minors, he may be on his way back as I type this.

  3. Comp’ing the trade package that the Pirates got for Frazier to the Phillies:
    – Marcano sounds a lot like Stott to me. Younger. Not as much power. But better defensively.
    – Suwinski sounds a lot like Ortiz. Breakout year. Big power and lots of strikeouts from a corner OF spot
    – Miliano sounds like Miller to me.

    So that’s the market for a really good contact MLB hitter, who is on pace for a 5 war year (a career high) and can play both second base and OF.
    https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/31885502/trade-grades-san-diego-padres-acquire-adam-frazier-pittsburgh-pirates

    1. Guess that’s about right since he has another Arb year next year. If I’m DD, you either move for an impact player or two or you sit this out. No trades like Seabold/Pivetta for average or below average RP

    2. I’m going to a closer look at this trade from the Pirates perspective.

      Adam Frazier is starter level (not elite) but he was having a career year. With 1 more year of arbitration, this was likely the most value that Frazier will have. It can also be said that once the Pirates are good again (whenever that will be), Frazier won’t be part of that core which is a fair assessment. So the Pirates traded high on Adam Frazier. They absolutely did the right thing in trading him and not keeping him around.

      I’m going to focus on Marcano because clearly he was the prize of the trade for the Pirates. If the Pirates are going to be good later (likely when Henry Davis reaches the bigs), they really don’t have a need for a prospect to be that close. In that case, it would have been better to accept a prospect with a higher ceiling but further out. Now it’s entirely possible that the Pirates asked for say Robert Hassell and the Padres told them no way. Anyways, back to Marcano. Marcano went to AAA and had a .811 OPS which is pretty good. So I get why the Pirates wanted him.

      So I have 2 questions:

      1. Is Marcano enough compensation for Frazier. At first glance, no. But if teams are hoarding prospects, we won’t ever know what was being offered and what wasn’t. It’s entirely possible that Marcano was the best deal available or the Pirates ranked Marcano higher than others. Again, we won’t know for sure. If that’s the case, you can do a lot worse than a 21 year old with a .811 OPS at AAA. Again, you have to give talent to get talent.

      2. Why would the Padres part with Marcano in the first place? Now obviously Frazier is the surer thing in the short term. But it can’t be discounted that Marcano made the bigs at age 21, even though he went back to AAA when he struggled. Looking at his numbers, Marcano could be another Adam Frazier down the road but younger. When that will be (if ever) nobody knows. Obviously the Padres are in win now mode so trading a prospect that struggled in the bigs (with a ceiling that he could be Adam Frazier if everything breaks well) is an easy trade for them I think.

      So for right now, I think the Padres did well with this trade. And I get why the Pirates fans are not happy.

    3. I would not make that trade for a similar player. The object is to win a World series at some point not make the playoffs once.

  4. You gotta’ love what the team looked like on Friday and Sunday. Do what it takes to give this club a legit chance at the division. Wheeler and Nola (and probably Eflin) are capable of shutting down an opposing lineup. Defense seems to play a little bit better when the pitchers are working quickly, and throwing strikes too.

    Phillies have 64 contests to make up 4 games on the Mets. Phils have the easiest remaining scedule in MLB. NY has the 7th most difficult remaining schedule. BTW … I still think the Braves are the team to beat for the NL East. Atlanta will be @ the NYMs for five games this week. That’s more good news for the Phillies.

    Looking forward to DD finally putting his thumbprint on this club.

    1. BTW … while the Mets and Braves cannibalize each other over five games this week, the Phillies host the Nats (who just got swept by the O’s, and have a number of players who may be wondering, “where am I going to be traded to?”) and the Pirates (who just lost one of their best hitters, and sport a .384 win%).
      Does anyone still think Dave Dombrowski should still sit out the trade deadline (or worse yet, be a seller)?

      I’m not telling you the Phillies are a lock for the postseason for the first time in a decade … but … I am telling you indicators are positive. And there is no guarantee this club will have a better chance to knock down the playoff door in 2022 or beyond.

      1. Hinkie, I agree with you almost all the time and love your insights, but I will risk looking the fool and stay in the camp for Selling non-2022 pieces for anything that can help in 2022/beyond or be flipped at a more strategic future time (hopefully 2022 trade deadline).

        You cherry picked Friday and Sunday but I could do the same with Thursday and Saturday (let alone Tues & Wed).

        The Mets are not only ahead but getting better. Rich Hill is a help to an injured rotation, but Carlos Carrasco (a top 20 SP in mlb) returns from IL this week and may be a major difference maker!
        (Btw, I agree that the Braves may still end up the team to beat.)

        The Phillies have so so many holes and there’s no mojo to believe in. Yes, this can all change and I honestly want it too! However, I feel this team is too similar to past years where we just were not good enough and weren’t one or two players from being good enough, yet we foolishly pretended we were only to regret it later.

        And it’s not just losing prospects to have or flip later, but it affects draft position and results. If the Phillies had finished even 2 games worse in 2020 we would have gotten Kumar Rocker in this years draft!! WHOA!!! I really like Painter, but I’d love Rocker!! And he’d be ready to contribute in a year or two like Nola was!!!

        Repeating past errors to Buy this year and hope stars align just to make the playoffs (where we’re still unlikely to win) just doesn’t seem as wise as having our new POBO start right now to more effectively action a plan to make us a more serious contender for division and wildcard in 2022 (and beyond).

        1. John … thanks for the feedback. I respect your opinion.
          I wasn’t trying to cherry pick. I used the Friday and Sunday games to show what the Phillies can look like when throwing a competent pitcher. Just another reason for DD to find more arms this week.

          Also … the guys you’d like to see the Phillies sell won’t really bring back anything of significance/nothing that will help them win next season.
          This core is only going to get older if you pass on 2021. There’s also no guarantee this team will be this healthy in 2022 and 2023.
          If itmakes you feel any better, DD isn’t going to deal any top prospects for rentals. If he trades one, it will be for a guy(s) who will be here in 2022.

  5. I tend to agree with you, Hinkie. In a perfect world, the Phillies would be in a position to maintain success (which = perennial playoff contender) by streamlining their better farm talent up to the majors while maximizing trade value from organizational depth. BUT that’s not the case right now. SO since we have a POBO famous for getting the requisite talent to push the parent club toward the big prize, can there even be a plan ‘b’? Half measures like the ones Klentak made would only result in another .500 season and fanbase frustration. Waiting for 2022 knocks off another year in the prime window for the team’s core veterans. None of us prefers the state of the Phillies as it stands, but time to see what kind of lemonade Dombrowski can whip up.

  6. This will be the week of trade rumors. Most trades are throw-aways, iffy prospects for rental major leaguers without positive results. I would like to open up discussions of current rumors but past trades good or bad that come to mind.

  7. I don’t know which SPs may be available, but I think SP has surpassed Closer as our #1 need. And, I say that after watching Ranger close, and Moore and Vinny start. I also would not be surprised if another hitter is acquired before that Closer. I just don’t see paying what I fear will be a huge price for Kimbrel. Again, I have a pretty long list of players that I don’t trade, so I am far from “all in”. I don’t trade Abel, Stott, Rojas, probably not Morales or Garcia or pretty much anyone from this year’s draft’s Top 10. Yes, I know, I am not expecting anything Major.

    1. Are they allowed to trade any player from this year’s draft? I don’t believe they are, but i maybe mistaken on that

      1. Tac3……they did it with Ragsdale last season.
        That was 6 months after the draft, 9Jan 2021), so there may be a minimum required time before trading a current draft pick.

        1. Drafted players can’t be traded until the offseason after they were drafted (so Painter, for example, can’t be traded until after this year’s World Series ends).

          It used to be they had to wait a full year after being drafted, but then a certain team skirted the rules by making the drafted player a PTBNL, so now we have this rule.

          1. DanK…oh yes now I recall…the Trea Turner rule…Padres/ Nats/Rays trade.
            Padres blew that trade.

  8. Alright .. I’m going to say it … I don’t care how unpopular or unlikely it is:

    Howard,Abel, efflin, stott,Bohm, Garcia, moniak, Ortiz for Trout & all his salary

    DD should confirm it’s an”No” before making any trades. That’s all I ask 🙂

      1. Jim, I’d still trade for him 🙂 Banking on next year. I’m not feeling this year but will be really hoping I’m wrong. I remember trout rumors not being your favorite topic, but a new thread to this small possibility is the angels possibly having to pick between Trout & Ohtani to field a competitive team. It’s a pipe dream but maybe the angels consider trading trout now that they have ohtani. I’ll keep a sliver of hope out, but quiet on the boards to keep everyone sane.

        1. Tac3..what is somewhat concerning with Trout now, and he turns 30 next week, …he seems to be breaking down physically as he ages….which for a 235 lb guy who plays all-out on every play for almost 1300 games now, is probably expected.
          A few years ago was the thumb fracture an now this calf strain.

        2. Tac, your proposal seems a bit much for Trout, especially with no guarantee that he can help this season. And, I would hesitate to include Abel in any trade.

          1. I’ll gladly take him for less. If the Phillies can’t Have him, I’m really hoping the angels can get into the playoffs, would be so good for baseball, Trout & Ohtani, in the postseason

  9. Here is a trade deadline hot take…I would trade Bohm (for the right deal) before I trade Stott. My logic is, I like Bohm as a hitter. I think as he matures he will be a .350 – .380 OB% player with an .800 OPS. Really solid hitter. I just don’t think that he has a defensive position. IMO, he is clearly not a 3rd baseman and those stats are not special for a 1st baseman. I am not sold that he is an above replacement level corner OF either.

    I think Stott has a real shot to stay at shortstop and will hit in the majors.

    I am not giving Bohm away. But for the right package, I am willing to trade him.

    1. Agreed. Bohm’s hit tool may play well in the long run, but as a future DH or LF, will his eventual value be greater than it is now? (Let’s assume he’s a .280/.350/.450/15-20 HR guy.)

    2. You can’t build a team with all high priced players. Bohm is valuable because he’s hitting better AND he’s paid very little. He’s not getting traded.

      1. I didn’t say take back a high priced player. I said “the right deal.” I agree we can’t have all high prices players. But we also can’t have a third baseman who is the worst in MLB defensively. Didi and Bohm are the only two left side of infield players in MLB with 10+ errors. Our infield is a disaster defensively. We have to upgrade our defense. Bohm’s value may never be higher as Mark said above.

      2. Agree with Murray. I would not trade Bohm. And I think there’s little chance Stott is a long term SS at the MLB level. He’s too big, and IMO not athletic enough to handle the position. He’s probably going to be a 2Bman or 3Bman.

        And … no … this year’s draft picks cannot be traded this summer. They can only be dealt after the season. Can’t even be used as PTBNL right now.

        1. I agree that Stott is a 3b/2b in the long run but IMO he’s got the “IT” factor, whereas Bohm doesn’t. Bohm’s hit tool is a notch above but I believe he would get you more in return as a young major league (al)ready player….no pun intended.

        2. Just so I understand your point, you would trade Stott, because he isn’t a SS but is likely a MLB quality 3B or 2B. But you would keep Bohm who has no defensive position?

          1. v1 … I was responding to your statement … “I think Stott has a real shot to stay at shortstop and will hit in the majors.”

            I also disagree with your other point … “Bohm … has no defensive position.”
            Yes, he’s had a bad year in the field. IMO, that does not disqualify him from rebounding to become an avg defensive 3Bman in 2022 (and for a few years after that). He’s got more than enough arm to handle the position. I think Bohm has to get out of his own mind. Less thinking (in the field and at the plate), and more instincts.

            Also … there is a difference between thinking Stott will hit in the majors and Bohm actually doing it (.338/.400/.481 in 2020).

            1. You are projecting Bohm to do something in the majors that he has never demonstrated an ability to do…play defense. Bohm’s defensive issues aren’t in his head. They are in his hips. He has no bend, lateral agility. That’s why he wasn’t a 3B even before he came up to the majors. Don’t believe me, just watch him try to field a bunt. He is stiff in the hips. He is Pat Burrell without the power.

            2. Also that stat line that you think proves is hitting ability was with a .410 BABIP in only 180 PAs. That proves nothing.

  10. My “available” for trade list:
    Howard
    Bohm
    Garcia (both)
    Morales
    *Moniak (however, I think Mickey is more valuable to the Phillies right now than his return in any trade)
    Herrera
    Maton
    Hoskins (but more likely in the off season)
    Marchan or O’Hoppe

  11. Home runs: R.Hoskins 21, L.McCuthen 17, C.Hernandez 17, B.Harper 15, JT.Realmuto 10. It’s hard to fathom that Moffo’s Uncle Caesar has a shot to hit 25 home runs this year.

  12. Was thinking about exciting Phillies of the past, Lenny Dykstra came to mind. Minus his obviously flaws as a person, I would love to see to a player emerge with a similar skill set – Near .300 hitter, 100+ Walks, can steal a base, and hits a lot of doubles, with occasional power. I don’t need the roided up version of “the dude” but that 93 season was amazing because he did. His integrity is obviously questionable but I love his Baseball IQ. He stated that he paid off the umps every game to give him the close pitch calls … genius. I would use that in my negotiation for salary contracts. – Well John, I’m going to need a few more million, the umps are getting real greedy! You want that blanking trophy or no?
    Damn Joe Carter to this day! It still slightly hurts almost 28 years later.

    1. Mitch Williams pitched the Phillies into the postseason, and he pitched the Phillies out of the WS. Sure, all we see is Joe Carter’s HR, but game 4 was the turning point in my opinion. Phillies win that game, even with Carter’s HR, there would have been a game 7.

      1. Very fair point that gets looked over. I will say, I don’t have Mitch anymore as I’ve “matured” but that series still feels like it got away. I never felt the “baseball Gods” in one Season. Just felt like they were on the Phillies Side that year 110%. GM4 is one they should’ve won. They had a nice lead too – 13-9, something like that and the jays put up a 6 spot. Not fun. Personally i think the weather really hurt then that night. I would have loved to see a GM 7 at that age. The adrenaline would’ve been pumping as a kid. I’m sure Lenny would’ve tripled up on the roids for a game 7 lol. Pretty sure he was already doubling up for the playoffs. He basically was Mr October … missed by inches

    2. Tac3…Brewers got the latest version of Lenny D in the draft, minus the personality flaws and the Skoal……Sal Frelick

  13. Not surprisingly, the majority of the Dodgers don’t want Bauer back under any circumstances. So it’s highly likely that Bauer’s Dodger career is over and the Dodgers will end up eating most of the 3 year, $102M contract. Not only that, the Dodgers have some hard choices to make as Kershaw, Seager, Taylor, Jansen are all upcoming FAs.

    1. There’s a chance that Bauer, if suspended, would not receive his salary and his contract would not hurt Dodgers.

    2. Guru, I read the article, too. The sources were two non-players. I would have preferred that the source for such a headline be a player. As it is, I’m left wondering
      how accurate the story is or if it is just sensational journalism to get “clicks”.

      1. At the minimum, I believe Bauer will not pay in 2021. He basically admitted to punching an unconscious woman, so he’s going to get suspended for that no matter what happens in the courts.

        And if baseball is serious aginst DV, MLB needs to set an example with Bauer. Sending a woman to the hospital even if it’s consensual is ridiculous.

        And lastly, not sure how many players would be accepting of Bauer when he returns. Let’s just say I wouldn’t be too happy if my friends admitted to doing that. And if Bauer gets off with a warning, the media spotlight is going to be crazy. There will be a lot of unwanted attention toward the Dodgers, something they definitely don’t need as they chase another title.

        1. Trevor Bauer has never been a good dude. He’s never been a good teammate. Just too bad he didn’t sign with the Mets last winter.

          1. Hinkie:
            ..the City of Brotherly Love is a forgiving city ….Phillies should go out and get Bauer on the cheap now….and Eagles go out get Deshaun Watson.

            When it comes to wins and losses….the Philadelphia fan base is a forgiving fanbase! 🙂

            1. I would keep Jalen hurts.

              But I don’t think we have a healthy chemistry as is, Bauer would make it worse.

  14. So the Braves will likely have to eat Ozuna’s 4 year, $65M contract. Their big FA’s are Morton and Freeman. Morton is going to be 38 so you wonder how long he can stay effective. Freeman I think is going to pose a problem for the Braves. Why? Freeman is back to hitting like crazy so the Braves will likely have to pay him something close to what he’s making this year, which is $22M. Now would Freeman take a home town discount? Yes, but not a crazy amount under. And if he takes a lower yearly salary, it’s likely that the length of the deal will increase. So the Braves have to wonder if first half Freddie will be more of the norm in the future. And considering that the Braves have limited money, not sure they can risk giving him a 5 year deal. In the best interest of the Phillies however, we do want the Braves to give Freddie a 5 or 6 year deal with big money.

    1. for a long time the Braves’ finances were buoyed with money from “the TBS superstation”, does anyone know if something similar is still true, now that Turner Sports is part of AT&T?

    2. On the open market, Freeman is probably worth 5/150M. He’ll probably take 5/120M to remain in Atlanta. Just my opinion … he’s one of the few guys to ignore the pressure from the players union, and take a hometown discount.

      1. I disagree. The Braves have already been given their bargain contract for Freeman. He’s not taking less than Goldschmidt (5 yr/$130M) and he has all the leverage. He would have already signed for the amount you’re proposing. The Braves will pay him because they have no choice. It won’t be contentious (publicly) but it will take time. Given my experience in a previous life, I know he’ll have pressures he can’t ignore, especially with 1) a new CBA and 2) the fact that his agents will want to sign future players and not have an albatross contract hanging over their heads when recruiting.

        1. I really think Schwartz and Excel probably can absorb one hit with a Freeman below-AAV contract.. Their representation is all over in the professional sports world. They may appreciate their client wanting that, but they probably will take the hit this time for good will

          1. Romus not everyone is like you, I know you took a big discount to stay in pa, over a contract to live in California and make movies,

  15. Bases loaded, 1 out, and we cannot score a single run. It is just unbelievable to me.

  16. Howard looked good early on. Touched 97 in the second inning. After the 2nd inning, he only had two fastballs above 92, and both of those were 93. Obviously a big difference to MLB hitters between 95-96 and 91-92.

    If he could throw two good innings every third day out of the bullpen, that would be valuable.

  17. Really . Howard used offspeed and Nats aggressiveness to get thru 2 to keep his velo and strength in hopes to go deeper into games. When he did use FB it was mid 90. Now it’s a blister.
    Hello
    BP Pitcher is where he belongs

    1. No, AAA is where he belongs. He isn’t ready, he is not the savior for 2021 and I don’t comprehend why people on here can’t see that……and WestCoast I’m very skeptical that he can go 2 out of 3 days, that is why he needs to be at Lehigh to answer that question.

  18. For the remainder of the 2021 season, I think the Phillies would be better served to focus on what Howard CAN do (throw a couple of good innings) rather than what he CAN’T do (go deep in games). There is value there if the Phillies management knows how to use it.

    Then, in the offseason, they can work on a development plan to get him in a position to go deeper in games.

    Or they can keep doing the exact same thing and expecting a different result . . .

    1. Nats’ pitcher also lost velocity after the 3rd innning… FWIW. Miley is doing OK on the Braves and he barely throws low 90s. I Think West Coast Phan is absolutely right in that Howards last two starts, with three shutout innings each time, seemed very encouraging.

  19. I’m tired of watching this team. Anyone who thinks they should be buyers and not sellers is delusional. I don’t care how ‘easy’ their remaining schedule is. None of that matters when they consistently play down to their competition. When you keep playing marginal, replacement level starters like Didi, Torreyes, Odubel, Cutch, and pretty much everyone else in that lineup besides Segura (who’s also regressing back to his norm despite his good season), Harper and Realmuto (who hasn’t even had that great of a year), they show you why they’re marginal, replacement level players.

    1. I love to the see the brilliant men who run this team Put Howard in the bullpen for late Innings and put Suarez in as Howard replacement. Use Moore as fifth starter and send V.V to minors, Then go into trade market for a Centerfielder and one more arm

      1. rocco…cannot send Vinny to the minors…he must be DFA off the 40 and cleared waivers, which I think is a distinct possibility,
        ……might as well do that however since he walks anyway in 8 weeks….also opens a 40 slot.
        Seranthony is throwing , so he may be available in 3/4 weeks for the stretch run.

  20. This team is such a tease! They just don’t have what it takes. The latest Cy Young is Joe Ross. Nothing more the Nats like doing than beating the Phillies, especially after getting swept by the Orioles.

  21. Gents, can’t get worked up. This year is a gift, that they are even in it. It will be a grind on the emotions. If they win 3, I’d expect them to lose 3 most of the time. As bad as this division is, I don’t see any team running away with it, regardless of deadline updates.

  22. Another Didi error, so 4-3 is 5-3, a failure by the SP to finish the 4th inning, and some more poor hitting with RISP. And, Moore and Vinny still to go. Washington has every player but Soto available and we are supposed to be in a race. What good is a weak schedule when we play so poorly?

    1. Anyone who faults Howard really doesnt know this game, The kid has shown he has closer stuff or multiple inning shutdown stuff, He is a bullpen guy, But our Genius front office refuse to use him there, Middleton as I believe spike lee said DO THE RIGHT THING sell the team,

      1. rocco…I think also, he may be best suited to close….at least for the remainder of this season.
        Come next spring things could change.
        Of course when it comes to thinking ‘outside the box’, only a few teams do it , ie Rays,and As, are two I can think of…..and that may be only because of their inherent market financial restrictions.

  23. McCutchen makes me eat my words! That’s great and doesn’t change the need for a SP better D and much more from Realmuto and Harper. Maybe we shouldn’t say goodbye to Cutch so fast and season’s end?

        1. Gosh I consume music as if it were water and try not to be a music snob but absolutely horrible choice unless the one direction as a Phillies metaphor is in the direction of sell

  24. Twins lefty closer Taylor Rogers is pretty much off the trade block with what appears to be potential ligament damage to the middle finger of his pitching hand.

    1. As for Buxton, great talent but why would any GM lay out prospect capital for a guy who hasn’t played more than 92 games in a season since 2015? Pass.

  25. Turned game off after Nats scored in 9th , oh well nice comeback! So we have one of the hottest hitters in the Organization called up in Moniak but keep playing Odubal , is it because Moniak is not a center fielder anymore?

    1. Well, unfortunately I think this shows you what Girardi thinks of Mickey. I get it if you don’t want to expose a young player in the heat of a playoff race, but then WHY would you bring him up from AAA aside from merit if you have no plans to get him regular reps. Don’t get it whatsoever…

      1. He’s basically up because Jankowski is out. The Phillies need another OF. Whether you like it or not, the Phillies are trying to win games first. Moniak’s development can wait. Same with Spencer Howard. And I’m pretty sure both those guys would rather be on a ML roster anyways.

        1. The Guru if you were trying to win games, V,V would be Gone and Howard would be in the bullpen,

  26. So the A’s land LHRP Chafin from Cubs for Deichman and another player not named yet (that I can find) Deichman is 26 y/o OF in AAA with MiLB career slash of 248/348/781

    If I had to guess the other player is a younger lotter ticket type. A’s are currently in the 2nd WC spot in the AL.

    1. Dave D. should try to get Tyler Anderson from the Pirates ….Adonis Medina, EDLS, Dohy, Warren, Henandez, Eastman, Cesar, Reyes, Lackney et al …one or two of those type pitchers could be offered.

  27. Another reason not to buy is that the teams that are much better than us in the NL have already started improving their rosters and those that haven’t will.

    I don’t see any likelyhood that DD would be able to make enough moves to leap frog any of those teams

    1. We just theoretically need to leap frog one team.. Once you’re in the playoffs weird things happen.. See the 2011 Cardinals who I believe got in with a 83-81 record and won the WS..

      1. Hawkye many people forget that 2011 Cardinals team was a really good team with a poor record. It featured Albert Pujols. They also had 4 guys in their LU that OPSd over 900

        4 of their 5 starters made over 30 starts. 3 Of them logged over 200 IP and Salas their closer was lights out that season.

        Not to mention they were a very solid defensive team.

        If we just had an issue or two by all means go sure it up DD. But you have multiple layers of problems on this team.

        How do you propose DD can sure all of that up with the very limited prospect capital available to him.

    2. I don’t think you can worry about the NL West. Upsets happen all the time in the post season (see 2010 and 2011 Phillies). If this group can fill some holes and sneak into the playoffs they can be dangerous in a short season with Wheeler/Nola.

  28. DMAR, I am not arguing with you, I understand your viewpoint. But, this is an entertainment business, not just a Baseball business. How can the team sell the notion of not even trying when we are 3 1/2 games away from the Mets? I think you have told me before that this is what you would do, not what you think the team will actually do. Am I correct? Because I would take doing nothing as not trying. That’s just my opinion. I am also the guy who has been harping on not claiming Brad Hand all season, and claiming we would be in first place with him. Meanwhile, he blew that save last night!

    1. Brad Hand, after blowing that save in spectacular fashion yesterday, is generating -0.1 WAR for the Nationals. Coincidence or not, he actually has the same WAR as our friend Hector Neris!

    2. matt13….there were a few reasons why Hand went so long unsigned in the off-season….analytical teams were hesitant, his spin rate among other metrics were in decline.

  29. I’ll throw this out again with no expectations of it happening…

    Craig Kimbrel, Kris Bryant and Kyle Hendricks

    for

    Spencer Howard, Luis Garcia, Erik Miller, Logan O’Hoppe and Johan Rojas

    I think this would be another Dombrowski classic. The player which I hate most to give up among our package is Miller. Rojas has such a high ceiling but he’s a big price to pay in going for it. As for Howard, much like Moniak and Kingery, the Phillies STILL don’t have a plan for how to bring them along. So maybe a change of scenery with people who do have an idea would benefit the young man.

    1. I wouldn’t make this trade. If you want this team to be good for the next 5 years, you’re going to need a bunch of those players.

      This team isn’t the Dodgers or Giants or Padres. They aren’t even the Brewers. So we push all the chips into the middle of the table for a weird chance to maybe win a playoff series this year.

      Imagine if the Eagles traded most of their draft picks for the chance to get into the playoffs for one year without a realistic chance of winning the Super Bowl. People would go berserk, and rightfully so.

      But we’ve all grown desperate and it has tainted our better judgment.

      I’m not saying I wouldn’t make any trade at all, but giving up the entire future for one long shot season and then doom ourselves to mediocrity again for another 5 years?

      No thanks.

      1. Your argument makes perfect sense in baseball Shangri-la. Until this organization demonstrates the capability to develop young talent, let alone identify/scout players, especially their own, what difference does it make when they are constructed (for better or worse) as a top heavy team. We can all agree that there’s a better way to build a bridge, but this one doesn’t meet at its apex.

        1. It makes sense here and now if you are trying to build a ream that will get competitive and stay competitive. If the goal is to produce a middling team that makes the playoffs once a decade, then this is the right move.

    2. mark8:29….assume you want Bryant for the long term and not just two months.
      If so, might as while just subtract Miller, Garcia , Rojas and O’Hoppe…and just add Bohm.
      Bohm and Howard will beget you Kimbrel and Bryant.
      Hendricks , IMO, is another RHP throwing in the hi-80s…rather have Suarez or Falter in the back end.

      1. Trading Bohm in a deal for KB is risky when you don’t know whether Bryant would re-sign here. Not that Bohm is my longterm 3b, or any position, but his value should be redeemed for a more permanent puzzle piece.

  30. Ken Rosenthal mentions that MadMax’s contract situation might deter some teams from pursuing him. His remaining $11.8M for 2021 isn’t due to be paid until 2028, but his AAV still counts toward the luxury tax. If the Phillies are willing – and I don’t know how likely Mike Rizzo would be willing to trade within the division – I would have to think Scherzer would be a “go for it” target. Problem is, Abel and/or Stott would have to be included in a return package.

    1. …nevermind. Max prefers the west coast. So the Dodgers, Padres and Gabe’s Gang may be throwing themselves at Rizzo’s feet.

  31. Anyway, on Spencer Howard.

    First, I know Mr. Howard has felt stung by the Phillies fans. I am not sure exactly what has been said that is so hurtful, but that’s hard to hear.

    That being said, objectively, Spencer Howard has an issue as a starting pitcher. He really can’t hold his velocity past 2-3 innings. This has been going on for 2 years and it shouldn’t be a mystery to anyone. I have no idea if things will be different next year, but how can you reasonably expect they will change this year? But the Phillies keep trying to force the damned square peg into the round hole and keep putting this poor guy in a position to fail rather than putting him in a position to succeed. Pitch him 2-3 innings every 5th day or let him be the long man out of the pen. Give him a chance to succeed in 2021.

    Meanwhile, I know that Bailey Falter is on the IL with COVID, which is annoying and was probably preventable. But when he gets well, why can’t they give this guy a chance to start? I don’t get it. Matt Moore? He’s so mediocre. Falter has a chance to be really good and with the exception of one bad outing has been highly impressive. He could be a really solid 3/4 and help us make the playoffs and provide a future starter for this team. But, again, the Phillies cannot scout their own players. It happens again and again.

    Wake up, Phillies – the starter you need may very well be right in front of you. And please don’t trade him. If they do, I think they will really regret it.

    1. Howard situation is not that much dissimilar than Seranthony’s from 2017.
      Seranthony had to be shut down for a few months in Clearwater, due to shoulder soreness/strain……once he came back, he could not hold his velo, among other things, like consistent control. Thus began his reliever career.

      1. It’s a little different with Seranthony. He had the velocity but his secondary pitches were nowhere near as good as Howard’s. Howard legitimately has a 3 pitch mix to start. For whatever reason, Howard loses velocity. Seranthony always had that reliever risk attached to him.

        1. Actually Ser.’s slider was considered plus-plus and was considered one of the best in the org. And until July 2017, Ser. was a starter.
          Howard’s curve may be considered better.

          But that is not the point……they both had shoulder issues early on…and Ser. lost velo after a certain amount of pitches….and apparently the same is happening to Howard at this point.

  32. I brought up Brad Hand again to show how little I know, so I may be way off base. But Tampa has been successful with an Opener. Why wouldn’t that be the place to start with Spencer? 2-3 innings, he has really good stuff. Vinny can then go or Matt Moore, or someone else. But, continuing this path has been unproductive for the team, and not good for the Player. I root for him, but I blame the way he has been used. Or piggyback him with Baily Falter, and have Moore and Viiny piggyback another night? We should have been doing something like that for a while. Vinny can only pitch effectively vs the Marlins. Enough already.

    1. Using an opener is sensible when you have a strong bullpen. The Phillies do not have a strong bullpen. Case closed.

    2. Having openers also implies that you need more relievers in the bullpen. You could get away with it more in the AL because of the DH.

  33. Well had to eat some humble pie on this team, but I’m still not convinced. I’ve seen this before. I stand by my buy & sell stance. The only reason to believe they might start to pull away Is the crazy blown save totals. Not all of them resulted in losses, so it would be interesting to see how many blown saves converted to a loss.

    I don’t want to be negative Nancy, but when I do, seems to trick the baseball gods with results like last night .. sooo I’m going to roll with it. This team just sucks 🙂

    1. If you can replace these three in the bullpen:

      Brandon Kintzler
      -0.4 WAR 6.83 ERA 5.86 FIP
      Enyel De Los Santos
      -0.7 WAR 8.31 ERA 6.08 FIP
      Chase Anderson
      -0.6 WAR 7.34 ERA 5.60 FIP

      or these two as starting options:
      Matt Moore
      -0.3 WAR 5.79 ERA 5.68 FIP
      0.3 WAR 5.54 ERA 5.59 FIP

      The team would be much improved. Some of those improvements can come internally if Spencer Howard can step up and give us 5 innings of 2-3 run ball consistently or if Bailey Falter comes back from COVID and remains effective. Ditto for Coonrad.

      The players on this roster need to learn how to win and they need to learn how to finish a season. They need to bring the fans back. They need to improve the team even if it’s around the edges IMO.

  34. Agree 100% Catch with your comments about Howard and Falter. Square peg/round hole. The Phillies management doesn’t appear to be too smart. DD made a mistake signing Moore — and giving away Irvin — for that 5th starter role. Recognize the mistake and move on.

  35. Also, it’s clear that Odubel is a 4th or 5th outfielder. Hasn’t put up an OPS+ over 100 since 2017. And that’s 1000 plate appearances ago, and he’s 29, so early career Odubel isn’t likely to be seen again . . .

  36. Has Adam Duvall been mentioned as a possible CF option? He’s been a fairly solid defender in the corners and HAS played CF this year for the Marlins (albeit 7 games). I can’t see it costing much to acquire him and he’s killed us offensively. He fits the Steve Pearce kind of mold from when Dombrowski was with the Red Sox.

    Even if his defense falls off some he’d still be an improvement over Odubel. He has post season experience with Atlanta. Just a thought.

  37. For a while now, the rotation should be Wheeler, Nola, Eflin, Falter, and Suarez. (With Eflin on the IL, I’d put Moore in there for now.). I’d use Howard and VV out of the pen.

    1. If VV can’t cut it in the rotation, he certainly can’t cut it in the bullpen. That has been proven many times. He’s just too wild. Anyways, we won’t be seeing VV in a Phillies uniform for too much longer.

      As for Suarez in the rotation? Suarez is having an amazing year in the bullpen. Remember Brad Lidge and his magical 2008 season? He generated 2.4 WAR. Suarez has 2 WAR and the season is not over yet. I hesitate to move Suarez out of the bullpen if he’s this successful. Clearly he’s having a massive reliever season. He’s still only 25 so you figure that he can be a very reliable reliever (or closer) for years to come.

      For 2022, I’m expecting the rotation to be Wheeler, Nola, Eflin, Falter, Howard. Even though Howard has struggled, I still need to give him one more year in the rotation because of his stuff.

      1. Disagree on Howard. He should be moved to the bullpen yesterday. I don’t understand how the Phillies can’t seem to pull the trigger on how they deploy certain players. It’s screaming at them.

        Velasquez undoubtably has compromising pics of somebody. 6 years of red light, green light, yellow light STOP! The guy is a long reliever on a last place team. They need to DFA him if only to open another 40 man roster spot.

  38. According to Jim Salisbury, the Pirates’ Richard Rodriguez is now in the Phillies’ sites. Rafael Marchan is of interest to Pittsburgh. Kimbrel appears to be out of DD’s reach at the moment.

    1. That would be a brutal transaction. Richard Rodriguez is a glorified “closer” on a last place team. He does not (IMO) have the kind of stuff to end games for a playoff club. He’s more of a 7th inning guy. In no universe is it OK to trade Rafael Marchan for Richard Rodriguez.

      1. That’s the kind of deal Matt Klentak jumps at. I just don’t believe DD would do that.
        And I’m not saying you made this up, mark. I’m just saying maybe someone leaked this to make another club (with another closer for sale) think twice about a Phillies’ offer. I would be very disappointed/even angry at this move.

        1. Agree Marchan is MLB catcher now. The offense might not be there yet but he’s the type of player that will hold his own in that dept. Maybe not for a contender but now would be the perfect time for him to come up and start for a team getting better.

          DD if he does trade him needs to get excellent value for such a player.

          And again nothing new from me as I was prepared in the offseason to take the pick for JT and roll with Rafael….and McCann or some other veteran.

          A couple seasons back I really liked how the Nats went Suzuki and Gomes. Cheap and definitely productive for the price.

          1. DMAR…compare Marchan to these ten prospects.
            https://www.mlb.com/prospects/c/

            That is ten different teams….he is not in their boat.
            He projects as a very dependable defensive cost-controlled back up…..
            Rafael is basically Ben Revere wearing a cup.

            1. LOL at Ben Revere wearing a cup…

              Best comp of the year. As I’ve said many times about Rafi he’s 22 if someone gives him the chance he will hold his own and by the time this kid is 25-26 you might find he’s a lot like Chooch with the bat.

              He’ll work on a properly constructed team which is one that doesn’t rely on the C position for OPS.

            2. DMAR…….I admire your steadfastness.
              I think we can agree on this…if Dave D decides on trading Marchan …..then, we would all like to see the return be of equal value.

            3. @DMAR, let me get this straight. The team that trades for Marchan would have to be willing for him to develop for another 3 years (during the cheap pre-arbitration years) in the hopes of being Chooch? So then he gets good and then you have to pay him decent arbitration money? That makes no sense.

            4. Romus … Carlos Ruiz never made a top 10 list either. It’s no secret. Marchan has played enough MLB and spring training games to see what kind of defense he brings to the field. Most of the guys on that MLB Pipeline list are there for projection on their bats. Jorge Alfaro was on (top of) that list for multiple years. Give me a catcher who can handle a pitching staff, can shut down the opposing team on the base paths, and (most importantly) make all the plays behind the dish (save the pitcher from wild pitches & allow no passed balls). You do not need to project what Marchan’s defense will one day look like. He already has plus athleticism/mobility behind the plate. He’s already got a plus glove. And he’s already got a plus-plus arm.

      2. Yeah, I would hope they could package Marchan in a package for something a bit more compelling. If it’s him for Rodriguez alone, then I agree.

      3. ikie…..I think you estimation of Rodriguez is a bit too drastic…the last two years he has been a better than average reliever.

        https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodriri05.shtml

        Fangraphi’s ranks him at 12th best in MLB right now….15th in FIP…in 2021
        https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31

        1. Look at his “stuff”. He’s not overpowering. K/9 is abysmal (7.7 this season).. Allows to many balls in play. This was the same problem I had with Brandon Kintzler. The Phillies defense is obviously below par. He won’t work here IMO.

          1. This was last week. You will more than likely see more of this here. I mean he’s fine as a 7th inning guy if you only have to give up multiple tier 2 prospects. But DO NOT swap Marchan for this Rodriguez. DMAR is right. Marchan holds more value than this.

            1. Romus … he’s pitching for the Pirates. When he’s called on to close out a game, I’m assuming it’s usually against another bad team (because Pittsburgh rarely holds late game leads vs good teams). You bring him here, and he’s going to be closing out games vs the Braves, Mets, and Nationals. Do you see his 93 MPH FB (that he uses 87% of the time according to FG) putting away Freddie Freeman or Ozzie Albies or Austin Riley or Michael Conforto (see tweet above), or Pete Alonso, or Dom Smith or Juan Soto, or Trea Turner?

            2. Hinkie…….it is a daunting task for sure. If the Phillies go and get him, just have to cross-your-fingers.
              I hope Hector Neris would give him some pointers! 😉

      4. Even though Rodriguez may not be a closer, he’s been an extremely reliable reliever for the last 4 years which no current Phillies reliever can say. Not only that, he’s still under control for 2 more years and making peanuts. How many times have the Phillies lost leads in the 7th/8th innings? Even if he was the setup guy, he still has a lot of value in that.

        I know you’re high on Marchan but he’s blocked here. He’s not playing unless JT is hurt. And we’re not even talking about a top 100 prospect either. We’re talking about a guy with a career minor league OPS of .659.

        1. Not sure why the Bucs would want a catcher they just drafted Davis who is likely to be a fast mover to the bigs…

          As much as I like Marchan I do know he needs to be traded. Just hoping for something more impactful like an everyday player at a position of need.

          1. Ask yourself this, who’s in the market for a 22 year old catcher with a career minor league OPS of .659, who has NEVER hit a HR in 5 minor league seasons, and who is actually smaller than Carlos Ruiz?

            1. I can see Marchan as a fine utility player some day. To me his athleticism profiles also as a 2b. Another favorite old 2b with the Phillies once started out as a catcher….Manny Trillo. Whip like arm. One of the more fun players to follow. He wasn’t much bigger than Marchan, couple inches taller, maybe.

            2. mark8;29……Guru makes valid points on Marchan.
              How does Fangraphs rank Rafael Marchan as a prospect?
              Eric Longenhagen has him ranked at 23rd out of the 55 he has profiled in the minors….Page 22

              2021 Top Prospects | THE BOARD | FanGraphs

    2. If I were Dave D…..get both Rodriguez and Anderson,
      ….Marchan and their choice of any two pitchers at LHV or Reading would work…..with the exception of Morales and Miller…wherever they have him assigned these days.

  39. Scherzer willing to go.

    Jesse Dougherty
    @dougherty_jesse
    ·
    20h
    Context on Max Scherzer, according to those w/ knowledge of the situation: Scherzer doesn’t plan to use his 10-5 rights to veto a trade to remain in Washington. He’s open to moving. That said, he could use them to influence his destination if WSH has multiple offers on the table.
    Jesse Dougherty
    @dougherty_jesse
    ·
    18h
    A small clarification here: In any potential trade situation, Max Scherzer will exercise his 10-5 rights b/c they afford him the ability to approve or not approve a deal. The point, as originally stated, is that he’s open to moving and does have influence on destination.

    1. The Nats will not give him away. Sherzer is a true difference maker. So somebody is going to have to give up something substantial and it has to be some place he’s willing to go to.

      1. Think about it…….all the teams projected to make the play-offs he probably will accept….every team in the West, except maybe the Mariners…..Dodgers/Giants/Padres/As I see him accepting.
        Then there are the Rays, Astros, Blue Jays and Red Sox…unless he hates mayonnaise on his hamburger I can see him going to all of them except maybe the Canadian team.
        The White Sox and Brewers cannot see him turning them down…maybe even the Mets.
        He is only there for two months and the play-offs…..he wants that ring again.

        1. If Sherzer is willing to waive his no-trade, that’s good for the Nats. However, who’s going to give the Nats what they want?

  40. I have no problem with Rodriguez as a 7th inning guy. He does not replace Ranger in my opinion. And, I am not trading Marchan for him, no way. Marchan has value, and although he is blocked by JTR, he still has value. No need to trade him now for a rental, and I would hold on for him to be part of an off season bigger deal. We are certainly going to need to make a couple of them.

    1. Rodriguez is not a rental, matt. He’s under control for 2 more years. I might ask for Rodriguez and lefty Tyler Anderson for Marchan and Nick Maton.

      1. Cherington, like most of all MLB GMs, like to also get pitchers in return
        So may have to add a pitcher or two.

  41. My bad, mark. I still don’t trade him for Rodriguez. I think he can be part of a deal bringing more back. Your expanded deal has more merit. I still think of RR as less than my idea of a Closer.

  42. According to Jayson Star, we are very serious in a Tyler Anderson deal, 2 unnamed prospects back to the Bucs

  43. This makes more sense.

      1. …actually official…C Abrahan Gutierrez and rhp Christian Hernandez. Nice work, DD.

    1. This makes sense. I’ve always felt the Phillies would deal from their catching prospect depth. And Marchan could only go for a difference making guy under team control through at least 2022 (not someone like Richard Rodriguez).

      1. .

        Christian Hernandez hurts a little.
        So they give up two guys in the #25-30 range (at least on my list). It’s a fair trade for both sides.

          1. I get the trade and don’t regret it, but Gutierrez has a chance to be a nice player over time. He’s got good plate discipline too.

            1. Just a guess….but I think the Phillies offered Marchan and Cherington insisted on Gutierrez …..his bat and his size are too much to pass up , though he may be 2 to 3 years out from the major leagues..

  44. Cristian Hernandez and Abrahan Gutierrez, the C I believe we got when the BoSox or Braves screwed up in the International draft are the 2 propects.

  45. In June and July Tyler Anderson has had 6 quality starts and 1 clunker vs VV who has 3 quality starts and 6 clunkers…good move for the Phils.

    1. Anderson did have control issues a few years ago…he seem to rectify those problems last year with the Giants and this season with the Pirates….and this also keeps Ranger and Bailey as relievers for this year and giving Joe more options..

  46. Anderson is another Las Vegas kid….now go get Bryant and Gallo and we are all set.

  47. JD Hammer is back (which means he didn’t test positive) and Moniak is back at Lehigh.

  48. Not bad, I think we can all live with that for a run at the division. It’s the upcoming moves that are going to be painful

  49. I’m good with this trade. It’s fair for both teams. The Phillies get a backend rental which doesn’t push the Phillies into tax territory, and the Pirates get 2 lotto tickets.

  50. Romus, then Gutierrez came from the Braves mistake? I think he also would have to have been protected this off season. I don’t know that he would have been. Seems like a reasonable cost.

    1. matt…and yes, he would need 40 protection this Nov. or get exposed to the Rule 5….but Pirates probably will not protect him…..rarely do postional guys get drafted who have not yet reached Double A ball

  51. Yeah, it’s something. If nothing else, it may mean you don’t have to rely on Matt Moore anymore, which has some value. But it’s move that is very much at the margins.

  52. It’ll be interesting to see who loses their rotation spot. I mean, VV should lose it (he’s pitching Friday) but Howard’s blister is clouding the picture.

  53. Sherzer would prefer a trade to a west coast team.

    Strasburg will have season ending surgery. So the $35M that the Nationals are paying him for this season generated -0.1 WAR. Yikes.

  54. Bowden in an Athletic piece, answered a question about a “dark horse trade that would shake up a pennant race.” His answer was Berrios, Buxton and Donaldson to the Phillies for Bohm and Howard.

  55. I like the trade… It only cost us a couple low level guys which outside of this blog no one has really heard of.. No way we trade our dudes for a player of this caliber…

  56. Assuming the Phillies will go over the luxury tax threshold, might they still try to mitigate some of the tax by trying to unload some salary like Odubel’s (say half) and Kingery’s (say half) of their money in a trade to say, Miami, in a trade for Marte? Jim Salisbury is saying that Cubs reliever Ryan Tepera’s name is being tossed around since Kimbrel’s price tag is too steep.

    1. Why in God’s name would Miami want Odubel and/or Kingery? The Phillies would actually have to attach MULTIPLE decent prospects in order for Miami to do it.

    2. Are you allowed to trade a player coming off surgery and on the 60 day IL during the season?
      ….does MLBPA allow that s part of the CBA?.

  57. OMG, the trade for Anderson is off for the moment. He’s warming up in the Pirates bullpen!

    1. Reports are that he’s not starting tonight as he was originally scheduled. However, speculation about medicals might be holding things up.

  58. Jim Salisbury says the 2 teams are still working on it. Something came up in Hernandez”s medicals. May work it out, or try for a modification. Salisbury also says if it doesn’t work out, we have other trade opportunities.

    1. Moore has 0 quality starts this year. Not a single time has he gone 6 innings or more and given up 3 or fewer earned runs. Well, I suppose, it’s possible tonight — he only gave up 3 ER in the 1st, so if he throws 5 shutout innings from here and is pulled at that point, he could have his first quality start as a Phil!

      How much Moore does DD need to see before making a change?

  59. Falter cost himself a shot at the rotation by getting Covid. DD so much as said this tonight. Stupid and infuriating. My gosh Matt Moore is awful.

    1. McCarthy really pointed out how Didi cost them runs last night, I was a little surprised how he went after him!

  60. Wow, Trea Turner tested positive for COVID. I guess we won’t see him the rest of the series.

    1. Let’s keep it our secret. The Phillies are supposed to be the bad guys in this movie, at least some on this site think. Shhh…

  61. Meanwhile, Erick “Bob Feller” Fedde is another Washington thorn in the side of the Phillies.

  62. I don’t see Knapp (and his $ million plus salary) being on this team next season so I believe Marchan takes his place. He’s inexpensive, Girardi likes him and he seems to actually hit better in the majors than the minors. Feel bad for Moore (I know. He’s making $3M so l shouldn’t). His was a feel good story coming back to MLB from Japan.

    1. If I had to guess, Knapp makes $1.5M or even less. Marchan was just demoted to AA. Why would Marchan be given the backup job?

  63. Why is it that a Multi Billion Industry doesn’t have better Covid Protocol? Turner finding out 2nd inning he tested Positive? You’d think testing on a daily basis.

    IMO
    Moore should be DFA or moved to suck up innings. OOps that what Anderson does. Phillies have to play perfect baseball, hit with RISP and maybe get a walk off to win

  64. Medina removed after 2 shutout innings. Either he’s getting called up or traded.

    1. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I would rather see Medina than Matt Moore or VV.

  65. It is just so tiresome to fall behind 3 out if every 5 games. It u it s exhausting watching us play. Didi can’t field and can’t hit. And skipping over the trade deadline for a minute, we need a SS and a CF next season. And that assumes Bohm gets another chance at 3B. And a SP and the BP again! What did I miss?

  66. BP seems to not issue I guess, as long as you don’t have have Moore, VV and Howard as SP. DD needs to see he has arms just using them properly, $$ driven logic
    Moore $3M
    Anderson $6M

    1. Hank – I cannot blame DD or the organization for the $$ spent during the offseason.
      It turned out to be much more than anticipated initially. At the time no one knew what baseball in 2021 was going to look like. (Not to quibble, but I believe that Anderson signed for $4MM.)

  67. The Phillies can’t be putting Matt Moore out there every 5th day. He needs to be DFAd tomorrow.

    1. I saw like about 11 Michael Barkann go off on why Matt Moore was ever signed, He read off how much money this guy has made in his career, He was hot, never saw him act like that,

  68. Has Joe G set up a platoon with DiDi and Bohm – bouncing Torreyes between SS and 3B? I can understand why he would want to avoid having both on the left side of the diamond at the same time. (BTW, DiDi did an excellent Bohm imitation tonight on that foul ball early in the game.)

    1. I think he has. I think Torreyes was going to play SS tomorrow, but with Corbin pitching tomorrow, it’s a near certainty that Didi is sitting.

  69. Back to .500 again. I wanted to believe they had another miracle to pull out but alas this team just is what it is. Sorry but id rather keep the lottery tickets in Gutierrez (21, .285, .421 OBP, 36/29 bb/k) and Hernandez (20, 56 ip, 74 K, w/94-96mph) than 2 months of Anderson (90-91mph) for a long shot at best this year. Also, if we were Sellers we could get a nice return for McCutchen! Again, I’d rather FO be realistic about 21 and give full focus on 22 & beyond. With wise moves I believe we could be true NL contenders next year.

  70. So the Phillies can’t even trade their”prospects”. Anderson traded by Pittsburgh to Seattle. Back to step one.

    1. Denny…Dave D is not finished working the phones,
      like Dipoto and Preller….Dombrowski does not sleep in the last week of July
      … maybe in a few hours something can happen

      1. DiPoto’s move to trade Graveman was a bold one if not a horrible one. Graveman was lights out for them this season and has this within 1 of a WC

        How do you trade him to the division rival and then how do you get less than mediocre return for him.

        DD could have gave them a much better set of two guys say Maton or Williams and Kintzler

  71. Well the people who feared Dick Rodriguez can calm down since I dont see us doing business with Pittsburgh anytime soon.

    1. When Cherrington “better dealt” Dombrowski, part of me immediately wondered if this was some sort of payback for losing his job in Boston to DD.
      And yes … I’d be shocked if Dombrowski hasn’t put Cherrington on his “ignore” list.

      1. Hnkie….you are probably correct…a little hard-feelings…almost 6 years to the date Cherington was let go, and then Dombrowski brought in Mike Hazen a month later.

  72. I don’t know if the rumors that Cherington was out to screw over Dombrowki have any truth to them, but we have to go get a SP somewhere. We can’t send Vinny out there again on Thursday. But, I don’t know who that SP may be. And, as much as I want a Playoff run, Abel is off the table, period. So are a number of others. And, I am still not done with Didi’s play. Those 2 plays he failed to make are errors, and I don’t care that they weren’t called as such. And, I don’t care about Matt Moore’s ERA. We would have won that game 4-3 if Didi catches that foul pop up. I don’t care if he ran all the way from the Bullpen to 3B, he got there, and the ball clanged off his glove. Error. So, was the IF hit in the first where he couldn’t get the ball out of his glove. That’s an error. The abysmal level of defensive play, and his robust .210 BA have me wanting to send him back to the IL. If I am getting poor hitting out of SS, then, at least, let’s have good Defensive play. And, for a little bright side, watching Bryce Harper run around the bases was fun. A brief amount of fun, but some fun anyway.

    1. I would caution giving up on Didi. He has played very poorly but there was another guy a few months ago batting about .150 dropping fly balls in LF who has completely turned his season around and thankfully Joe was patient with him (not that there were other options either).

      1. There are two black holes in the Phillies lineup right now: Didi (in the 6th spot) and JTR (in the second spot). Girardi can use Torreyes to replace Didi, but he has no options when it comes to Realmuto. Knapp has been a disaster at and behind the plate.

        1. Bohm to the platoon role? Why now…I mean you rode him all this way and his bat and his plate discipline was just starting to fire up.

          I get that defensively he’s a liability. I suggested early in the season they should send him down for a few weeks to clear his head but nope they kept sending him out there.

          seems kind of arse backward to me

          1. The way Joe manages young players is maddening. The only player who should be losing reps at this point is Didi. I get 100% that Toe earned time. But Bohm is a foundational piece that was hot before he came down with COVID.

        2. Hinkie, I freely admit I wanted to re-sign both Didi and Realmuto. I am not letting JT off the hook. We need much more from him. I thought the All Star Game HR would spur a big second half, and I think he had another right after. But his Offense has been far less than expected, and he has to do better. Rhys was bad at the 2 hole, and I have no idea who to put there. And, a much more minor problem is the year long lack of a good RH PH. The roster construction has left a lot to be desired.

  73. Thanks, DMAR. Sometimes I feel like a prostitute in a cathedal on this board. I took a sabbatical for a few months after heated threads. I’m sure many wouldn’t mind if I took another one. Anyway, let’s talk trade deadline…

  74. Enough! This is a Phillies baseball discussion.

    Buddy has been blocked for now for starting and inciting this political/medical discussion with his Jankowski comment.

    I personally find it disheartening that young athletes are compromising their careers over Personal Choice. But, the choice goes both ways, and it is up to each individual to decide for himself what is best for him.

    And private citizens are also afforded the right to choose, no matter what anyone else thinks of that choice.

    So, drop it and talk baseball. (FWIW, I think the trade fell through because of covid, which wouldn’t be surprising with the latest spike in Clearwater.)

  75. Buddy, it wan’t totally giving up on him, it was the fact that he has played so poorly, and was out for an extended length of time. I don’t know that he has fully recovered. I wanted to re-sign him, but he has been terrible. I know what you mean with McCutchen, but I didn’t get the bad Defensive vibe from him that I am getting from Didi. And, SS D is a crucial part of the team. Even the horrendous Phillies teams of my youth had Bobby Wine and Ruben Amaro at SS!

  76. The O’s have 2 LHPs in Paul Frey and Tanner Scott which are apparently receiving lots of trade interest, what with Taylor Rogers on the shelf, Andrew Chafin already dealt to Oakland, and Brad Hand struggling in DC. Anyone with intel on these two?

    1. I’ve always liked Tanner Scott. Hard throwing “lefty” with a pretty good SL. Gets a ton of Ks, but allows a deal of BBs. He’s going to cost a lot. He’s under team control through 2024.
      If DD was to deal for Scott, I’d love to see him send Baltimore Andrew Knapp as part of the package. It would be funny to see Andrew referred to as … O’s Knapp!

      BTW … it sounds like Taylor Rogers is on the 10 day IL with a finger sprain. That would not dissuade me from making an offer for him. Doesn’t sound like the kind of injury that will have him sidelined too long. Plus, he’s under team control through 2022. He’d be on my target list … either by himself, or as part of a bigger package.
      Yesterday, someone posted an out-of-the-box proposal by Jim Bowden: Spencer Howard and Alec Bohm for Jose Berrios, Byron Buxton, and Josh Donaldson. If the Twins were interested, I’d be all over that trade.

      1. Yes to the Twins proposal. Berrios alone would be worth considering pulling the trigger, even if he’s only under control through ’22. Bohm and Howard and certainly another 2nd tier prospect would have to be demanded by Minnesota. Buxton is prime ability except for availability. JD would be a solid addition to the clubhouse.

      2. That was me, Hinkie! I always give you credit! LOL!!! I am begiining to be on board with that trade.

  77. What I don’t understand is how they couldn’t agree on a replacement for Hernandez in this deal…?!?!? I mean, we’re talking borderline 2nd tier prospects. Cherington couldn’t say, “hey, let me pick from 2 or 3 other arms”?

    1. That is the most bizarre thing to me too. Seems like it should have been an easy replacement?

      I’m not familiar with the prospects they ended up with from SEA, but it doesn’t sound like they blew our offer out of the water or anything.

    2. read another piece of speculation, mark, that Cgherington was dealing with Seattle and they didn’t include who he wanted. When the Phillies trade was announced, Seattle put him in, and used the “medical issue” as an excuse to scuttle the deal. Maybe?

  78. mark, I am searching wherever I can for any SP rumors. I think on the BP side, it seems to be those 2 are almost certainly going to be traded. Scott is the more power arm, I think, but erratic, and Frey had some success. They are controllable past this season. Have you seen any SP rumors involving us?

      1. Not sure if my original post will get up, but Phils have to go minimum 35-27 for the remainder of the season to pass the Mets/maybe tie, the game in hand by the Mets will determine that. If the Mets do well down the stretch, say 5 games above .500, the Phillies will need to go 40-22 down the stretch. I say they need efflin back ASAP, add to get a 4th starter. I think everyone was hoping it would be Howard, but I’d put him in the pen, let him gas out for 2 innings. Same with VV. Seems like the best choice to boost the pen and rotation. Should go to a 4 man when days off allow. Nola has not historically pitched well in shorter rest but it’s been a while since I looked at that for him

        1. Tac3…last three games of the year…Mets vs Braves…may very well decide the Phillies fate.

          1. Romus, Will see, but I was giving perspective on what the Phillies have to reasonably do to leap over the mets. They need to start getting on some rolls. 9 weeks of games left – need to have 6 weeks of 5-2 records, and 3 weeks of 4-3 to get to 40-22. Hopefully the mets & braves finish below .500 from here on out and make it easy, but their mindset should be … a cardboard cut out of chosen lady… with 40 pieces to remove! Yes a major league movie reference

            1. Well the good news….schedule works for the Phillies right now in this second half…..hopefully I am not counting the chickens.
              The team seems to disappoint whenever you think things will turn around for them.

  79. Looks like if the Anderson trade went through, VV would have lost his rotation spot. Maybe this is a wakup call for VV? Probably not.

      1. Yeah, if potentially losing his rotation spot was enough to make him a better pitcher, he’d be making DeGrom look like a little leaguer by now.

    1. VV has had so many wake up calls, he should be able to set his own alarm by now. Nothing personal against him but it’s time to move on. Hopefully come Saturday he’s not in the rotation, at least.

      1. VV is going to throw a gem on Friday, a 6 inning gem, but a VV gem. He will do so to keep stringing this along. He will make you suffer till the end 🙂

  80. I’ve seen enough of VV that if he threw up another clunker on Thursday, I would DFA him the next day. Personally, I would replace him with Cristopher Sanchez right now.

    But throwing out another transaction that reminds us of the past that worked out: bring up a Reading pitcher like Jack Perkins. He’s a control type pitcher similar to Kyle Kendrick. If the Phillies can’t get another starter by Friday afternoon, what’s the harm in taking this chance? The Phillies know what they have in VV and it isn’t good. And the cost for starters is going to be sky high.

      1. I remember the first 3 happy to say I was too young for Rick Wise but wasn’t he part of the Steve Carlton trade with the Cardinals?

        I loved Lefty. My father did too.

        1. He pitched and was productive for ashort time in 1964 at 18. It was 8 years later that he was traded for Lefty.

    1. Isn’t there a requirement for COVID protocol that prevents a player from going to the majors directly from AA. Thought they had to go to AAA first.

  81. Ken Rosenthal expects Max Scherzer to be heading to one of Los Angeles, San Francisco or San Diego by day’s end.

      1. Though since all three West teams are bidding for him….Nats will come out smelling like roses with prospects….willing to bet it is the Dodgers and they end up giving the Nats catcher K.Ruiz and one of their pitching prospects in their top 15.

  82. Marlins are sending Starling Marte plus a “significant” amount of cash to Oakland for young lefty Jesus Luzardo. Even up.

    1. Jesus has been horrible this year and not figuring things out in the minors it appears, but still, for an impending FA that seems like a real good get for Miami- if they could get him and Sixto healthy and right in the coming years along with what they already have in rotation…..

        1. Agreed. I’m in last place in my division with no hope at a playoff spot and I trade an expensive player who will be an FA after the season for a 23 y/o Lefty with upside that I can control through 2026.

          Beane and company aren’t ones to make those types of deals if there isn’t some type of underlying issues but still the Marlins really can’t lose on that one.

          1. Beane may have realized Luzardo may not be what they expected.
            Maybe Derek Jeter will get him to come around….he is going home…attended the same HS as Anthony Rizzo, former Flyer Shayne Gostisbehere ….the HS that had the mass shooting in 2018

            1. I really like Billy Beane and I really like Dusty Baker. I hope one of those two can nab a WS Title

  83. Although Joey Gallo isn’t a longterm figure in CF, I would explore what it would take to get him, Ian Kennedy and Kyle Gibson from Texas. One blockbuster trade to go far in plugging holes on this roster.

  84. Jon Morosi says Jon Gray’s market is heating up with the Phillies among suitors.

    1. Padres and Giants are also in on Gray so the Scherzer situation should clarify who goes after Gray more.

  85. It didn’t really bother me that the Anderson deal fell apart. It happens, and it really seems like they were just using us for leverage.

    I am, however, pretty bothered by the return the O’s just got for Mychal Givens. That’s a package we could easily have beaten. And the only reason not to is because the Phils must think he’s going to fall apart. If he pitches well down the stretch, I will be very unhappy. Especially if we don’t get a reliever that helps us.

    1. I think Givens was with CO but what was the return I didn’t see it anywhere just that they and the Reds were finalizing it

      1. RHP Case Williams, .the Rockies will also get RHP Noah Davis, the Reds’ No. 26-ranked prospect, as part of the deal.

        1. Cincy is really working hard to revamp the BP also picked up Cessa and Wilson. Cessa is pretty good and Wilson is an enigma. PTBNL for the Bombers.

      1. I have faith that a DD move will not put us in a bad spot and if he doesn’t come up with any moves I’m ok with that too…

    1. Let’s talk about Jon Gray. Let’s also assume the Dodgers acquire MadMax. With SD and SF both in on Gray (a rental, mind you) let’s offer Adonis Medina and a high ceiling lottery ticket like Starlyn Castillo to start the discussion.

    2. Nah the phones are burning off the hook but I don’t think DD does anything rash. Maybe different if we were firmly holding a WC or the division.

  86. I think DD is putting together a big move. When guys like him say they are looking to make moves because he sees an opportunity to win this division they usually do something to win the division. Fringe moves ain’t gonna win the division. If he can get something good for Bohm and or Howard my guess is they will be traded

  87. Game tonight is in jeopardy due to COVID outbreak with the Nationals – Rosenthal reported. Guess we’ll find out soon enough.

    1. So when the Phillies had to put players on Covid, there was no mention about the game in jeopardy even though Nola couldn’t pitch. Now the game is in jeopardy because of the Nationals outbreak? That is crap. They knew about this yesterday when Turner was positive. They should have called reinforcements from Rochester just in case.

      On the other hand, if this means that VV’s start could be skipped, that could be a silver lining.

      1. Yes, Guru. Just ridiculous. The Phillies had to go with a BP game in Boston when Bohm, Nola and a couple of relievers hit the shelf with COVID. Who decides when a team is at an unfair disadvantage?

  88. This is so crap, tonight’s game has been postponed.

    MLB needs to introduce stricter rules for covid for 2022. If a team has an outbreak and they don’t have enough players, they should forfeit.

    1. Doubleheader tomorrow?
      Give the Nationals time to get their extra players down from Rochester.

    2. Nats have over 85% vaccinated……so the protocol should have been different for those teams.

      1. Yeah, but today’s Wednesday. And it’s an even number date on the calendar. So that doesn’t matter. All kidding aside, Moe Larry and Curly must be sitting in the league office making the call.

        1. I just assumed the Nats could not get their players from Rochester here to fill out the required slots for the active roster for tonight’s game.

      2. and, the report per espn.com quoting Nationals Manager Martinez, is that of the 4 players and 8 staffers testing positive, 11 were vaccinated. Perhaps the variants Delta and Lambda increase the viral load such that vaccination doesn’t stop infection as much as before, just reduce impacts? Tough to create reliable prevention practices against a moving target.

        1. I think the protocols should be modified.
          For example…if the player is asymptomatic….no fever, no malaise/fatigue, can taste and smell, no cough, no runny nasal issues….then neck-gaiter and play…social distance in the locker room and dug-out.
          Fill out the paperwork on the contact tracing and then get tested again the next day

        2. I heard that the JnJ vaccine was the main one that had the breakthrough infections.

  89. Of course we lose the game with Wheeler pitching! Why don’t we play a DH with Vinny and Moore? Guarantee 2 losses!

  90. Harper or Machado . . . Machado or Harper?

    Remember that off-season?

    To date, Harper has put up 9.1 WAR for the Phils for $67 million (including salary for the rest of the season) and Machado has put up 9.3 WAR for the Padres for $76 million (including salary for the rest of the season). Harper has been better offensively (140 OPS+ for the Phils, versus Machado’s 128 OPS+ for the Padres), while Machado has been better on defense.

    Has pretty much been a wash so far.

    1. Plus, Harper is the face of the team, imo generates more money than machado would’ve In the same circumstances, and the bonus – pissed off nats fans until they got lucky as heck and won the WS. JM got that one right

  91. Joey Gallo got traded to the Yankees. Not sure what the prospects going back will be, but you figure at least 1 top 100.

    1. 5 prospects and not one is in the NYY top 10 org prospects. NYY 14th,15th, 17th, 23rd, 28th best prospects per MLB.com.

      I get Texas wanting quantity over quality so they can see if one hits, but that is very little quality on paper, even despite Gallo being a rental.

      Let’s go DD, time to step up.

      1. Lots of guys who are short on track record (largely because of the lost 2020) and who are putting up great numbers but are a little old for the leagues they’re in. It’s an interesting bunch of players but I wonder what the scouts say about them. The MLB site usually has some headscratchers in the rankings.

      2. Joey Gallo is not a rental, he’s under control for 2022.

        If this is the final prospect list, the Rangers got fleeced badly. And it’s another indication of how teams are hoarding their top prospects. The Rangers definitely lowered their price but it’s stunning how no other team was able to beat this.

        Quantity over quality almost never works out. See the Cole Hamels trade.

  92. I am a Harper fan. No interest in Machado. Equal production but I appreciate the intangibles Bryce brings. I will be very disappointed if we, as I feel, do nothing.

  93. So do Phillies make a solid trade or a trade similar to last two deadlines? Big names starting to drop.

    Was excited to get an innings eater but the deal fell through. Been quiet ever since. Only a few days left.

    1. Hinkie – I accept your argument that Marchan is an elite level catcher.

      But here’s my question. How many times have we seen a “no hit” elite defense level catcher become a first division regular? I would say almost never. Sometimes an average hitter who is elite defensively can reach that level (although not often), but never a no hit guy. Those guys become wanted back-ups – like Charlie O’Brien was for so many years.

      So I think you have to project the Marchan hit tool – is he good enough to become an okay hitter? I don’t know. He’s young and interesting – but I personally won’t lose too much sleep if they trade him. I see him as a .225-40 hitter with no power – which screams back-up to me.

      1. Of course, it all depends on who the “get” is on the trade. I don’t want to trade him for a 7th inning BP arm – that would be a waste.

        1. Catch … he cannot be traded for a rental. If he’s going, it’s got to be for an impactful bat or arm under team control through (at least) 2022. He could be part of a package of prospects.

          1. Well, he could be, but I guess you think that would be unwise. Obviously, it’s better if we get more value for him than less. But, for the sake of argument, if the rental had been Max Scherzer, it would have been a no brainer for me. I just don’t see him as an impact big league player, but maybe I’m wrong.

      2. The other way to look at it is… how often do defense-first players learn to hit later versus the other way around?

        Utley was one of the few examples I can think of where a player was expected to hit his way past defensive problems, but then ended up being good defensively as well. Whereas some defensive players learning to hit off the top of my head:

        Chooch, Molina, Kiermaier (arguable), Simmons, Beltre, Brandon Crawford.

        Having an elite tool makes it easier to become a good players. Usually people think of contact or power as the carrying tools, but defense is right up there. Will Marchan ever hit enough for his defense to be a difference maker in the majors? No idea. But teams are willing to spend more (in terms of money and player capital in trades) for prospects with at least one elite tool, and Marchan has one.

        1. Look at Danny Jansen, catcher of the Blue Jays. He is very good defensively, probably elite. But he can’t hit at all. He’s able to start for a few years now, so perhaps there’s hope for Marchan.

          1. I’ve posted this before, but it’s worth noting again that Marchan has excellent bat-to-ball skills (9.4 K% in MiLB). As he gets older, he should get stronger. That should lead to greater exit velos. Greater exit velos lead to higher BABIP. The fact that he’s a switch hitter is even more good news.
            Again … the offensive bar for catchers isn’t high. He’ll be fine …. especially when you factor in his plus (maybe plus-plus) defense. Marchan has real value. You just don’t give him away for a rental.

          2. Okay, but you’re making my point for me. Danny Jansen is a 0.2 WAR player this year and has never played to more than a 1.1 WAR – in other words below replacement level. He is easily replaceable. I’d trade that guy for 2 months of Max Scherzer any day of the week during a pennant race.

  94. Hinkie, the more I think about the Bowden trade idea, the more I am inclined to do it. A healthy Buxton is a terrific player, and takes over CF. Berrios is a lot more than a #5 SP, and Donaldson can still play. The money we take on for Donaldson doesn’t bother me. Maybe it does Middleton, but that’s on him. We give up Spencer and Alec Bohm, which hurts. I believe that Bohm can hit, but I no longer see him as a 3B, and he has not shown power, which limits his value as a 1B or LF. Spencer has the stuff, I just don’t understand the issues that he has had. And, he certainly can unlock it in Minnesota. Overall, I think a plus for us. A healthy Buxton is the clear “best player” in that trade.

    1. I know availability is the best ability but I have to agree……I’m 100% in on this trade. Buxton is true difference making 1st division regular and a borderline superstar. “If” he can remain healthy he will put up MVP type numbers. He’s definitely high risk/super high reward type player. DD needs to go big or go home. With that being said I also wouldn’t mind a Bryant/Kimbrel trade either as long as can lock up Bryant. With all the quiet surrounding the Phillies I have confidence that DD is working on a big move.

      1. If it is Bohm/Howard to the Cubs for Bryant/Kimbrel,
        …Phillies better get more to the deal….for obvious reasons….Ricketts will stand to benefit from age difference between the players involved and the many aspects of the financial arena.

        1. Woiuld not trade Bohm/Howard for Kimbrel/Bryant.
          Would absolutely do the Bowden deal … Bohm/Howard for Berrios/Buxton/Donaldson

            1. Hinkie stole the Pappy Van Winkle (hope everyone knows the reference and, yeah, JUST KIDDING!).

              Anyway, the main issue with Berrios, Buxton and Donaldson is I don’t know how you do that trade and not go way over the luxury tax now and into the future.

  95. 2 rentals – Gray and Story (speculation that the Phillies could ask him to play CF) for Marchan and Medina. It’s not a blockbuster since both additions are rentals but we still get the opportunity to pursue them in free agency…and they would certainly help down the stretch.

    1. Story is an outstanding defensive shortstop….if they get him and sign him….Didi has to be moved somehow….along with Bohm.
      Their porous defensive hurts the pitchers.

  96. Is that a rumor, mark? Because I read the Story/Gray to Mets rumor in the same Jim Bowden article speculating on “difference making” trades.

    1. Not that I’ve seen, matt. I am only piecing together. Of course, as Romus mentioned, Story would better serve us staying at SS with Didi’s sudden drop in performance. Rentals packaged together might get a better return than separately since teams are stingy on giving up prospects. Look at NYY. How many bags of balls did they send to Texas for Gallo. I am surprised that no other teams could exceed what the Rangers offered. Yeesh!

  97. I really don’t like those quantity over quality deals. Yankees gave up very little for Gallo, and on the other hand, the Marlins got Luzardo for Marte because they gave the A’s money. But, crickets about us doing anything, which leads me to believe DD is working on something bigger than Tyler Anderson

  98. 2 trade rumors?

    Bohm,Howard,marchan, & Medina for

    Buxton, berries, Donaldson with Kimberly & Bryant

    Hmmm if DD pulls off both that’s all in

    1. On its surface that appears to be a disaster of a trade

      Buxton turned down an $80 mil extension. Berrios would be a nice get for Howard.

      Donaldson why? 35 and still owed $51.5 million

      You just can’t give up on Bohm. Even if it means moving him to 1B.

      Bryant as a rental well just look at what the Yankees gave up for Gallo.

      Now that I said all of that Dan O’Dowd (who is the best the MLB network has to offer) said something very interesting last night of the A’s Billy Beane and David Forst.

      He said the A’s don’t operate with 5 year plans. They operate in the moment and self correct as they go. Dan said he used to get calls from Billy and Billy always had a proposal but no time for Dan to think it over. Take it leave it and he move on to the next team.

      Thus the Marte for Luzardo deal was likely just that. I guess it works for them to a degree but no rings yet.

      1. Bryant is worth way less than Gallo. Gallo is getting paid less and has another year and a half before hitting free agency. Bryan is getting paid more and really hasn’t been as good as Gallo this year. I’d flip Marchan and Medina for him – no problem.

      2. By the way, saying that Billy Beane doesn’t have a plan is ludicrous. There’s a reason why Beane is still a top level executive and O’Dowd (who seems pretty knowledgeable) is now a baseball analyst. Putting pressure on opposing GMs like that is not a spur of the moment reaction – it’s planned and brilliant. It allows one side to do all the advance due diligence and the other side to just react. If you get a yes 1 out of 20 times you still win because you always go into the conversation prepared and knowing what you want. All you need is Ed Wade to agree to take Jeremy Giambi (by far the most hilarious moment of the Moneyball movie if you’re a Phillies fan)

        Beane operating impulsively . . . please. Give me a break.

  99. Uh oh….somebody’s dragging their feet…MadMax is scheduled to start game 1 today….

  100. I think Berrios is going to the Mariners for either Hancock or Kirby to stud pitchers in the Mariners system. DiPoto said when he traded Graveman who is a FA after this season it was part of a larger plan.

    Either of those two would be a good get for Berrios who is about to get expensive in Arb and then a FA in 2023

    1. Yikes the Jays with that high powered offense need something better than that…

      The Red Sox rotation continues to be better than the sum of its parts. Really solid offense and Devers is becoming a star. Betts who…

    2. It’s a shame these are going to be 7 inning games today. Washington’s BP is really thin. No more Brad Hand, and Daniel Hudson out for COVID.

    3. The return was a 25yo catcher who can’t hit. I don’t know why we couldn’t/didn’t beat that offer. We need multiple BP pieces. I am starting to think that DD is basically going to stand pat. I don’t think that he wants to buy much.

      1. I’m leaning more and more towards the idea that he wants SPs or nothing, with the idea that adding to our SP depth allows us to bump VV and Howard to the pen. I think he’s fine with Ranger being the closer for the rest of the year.

  101. By the way, unrelated to the trade deadline, does any team coach up its players better than the Giants? Who are these miracle workers and why didn’t Gabe hire them when he was here? If he had, he’d still be the Phillies’ manager.

    1. Gave is not here for the same reason that we are a .500 club. Terrible bullpen. Bad defense. No organizational depth. He was the scape goat.

      1. No doubt and he was learning on the job. But if he had the coaches the Giants now have, the outcome may have been different. Chris Young alone probably cost Gabe his job. Literally the worst pitching coach I can ever remember.

    2. Not to throw sticks at Kapler but Farhan Zaidi is light years ahead of what we have in our FO. I doubt much is left to his strategic imagination out there. It says to me we have more of a culture problem here.

      Another thing O’Dowd said last night is analytics people struggle with chemistry but when you walk into that locker room you know if you have it. And if you don’t you’re not going to win.

      1. DMAR….Posey/Crawford/Belt and Longoria in the field…Gausman n the mound…that is the Giants….and all are aging as I write.
        Please…..Gabe just has to stay out of their way..

        1. The Giants roster is old and not very good on paper. It’s perplexing that their record is as good as it is. You have to give Gabe some of the credit for that.

          1. I guess I give him credit for finding good match-ups for hitters, but unless Gabe is also the de facto hitting or pitching coach, I’m giving my main props to the coaches. It’s not at all perplexing their record is as good as it is. They aren’t a mirage – they have almost all performed great and far, far beyond expectations. But, yeah, Gabe’s part of that to a large degree so he gets some credit too.

            1. I bet you a lot of money Gabe hasn’t filled out his own LU card all season. It’s sent down to him from upstairs every game and he hands it right to the umps

              Think I’m crazy?

            2. It’s perplexing how they have so many players performing far beyond expectations. Old guys too; they make the 2012 Phillies look like a young group.

            3. It’s perplexing that people still think Kapler was the problem.
              He did a better job than Joe G has done thus far and Joe G has had more talent than Kapler had when he was here.

  102. Bryant and Rizzo not in Cubs lineup today. I don’t know if that means anything. I am assuming Rhys is sitting Game 1 to get another Lefthanded Bat in vs. Scherzer? But, I would want my best hitters playing against another team’s top guy, lefty/righty matchup notwithstanding.

  103. Why is Scherzer still pitching…..Rizzo better get him out of there…..he has shown he is healthy.

    1. The most dangerous guy in a fight is the one not afraid to lose….that’s Rizzo right now

  104. Mentioned above but the deal for Gallo sets a very reasonable bar to acquire Bryant. And the deal for Hand should also set a very reasonable price for us to acquire relief help. Should be able to get it all done and keep our top prospects.

  105. Hardly inspiring performance today. 3-1 in the top of the 7th after a 2B and a HR given up by Wheeler. I know he is our best SP, but he did not have his best stuff today. Joe G will be second guessed. Vinny in Game 2, oh boy!

  106. Bottom of the lineup is completely impotent right now. Didi/Bohm/Odubel are all lost.

  107. Now Patrick Corbin, who has not been good this year, but that doesn’t stop us. Vs. Vinny Velo. In the middle of the trade deadline, with the Nats being sellers, and we need this second game for a split, at home, with a team packing it in. I understand all the reason to not add, but, we have to try. We have guys who are capable of getting hot with the Bat, and I may be fooling myself, but we have to try to do something.

  108. By the way, if you can find some way to get Byron Buxton without it costing your very best prospects, I think you have to do that. Having him and Harper and Realmuto and Hoskins in the middle of this line-up next year and with plus plus defense. I get he’s been hurt, but there’s so much ability it’s worth the risk.

    1. He was a 2.7 WAR this year in 27 games. That’s INSANE. He’s such a difference maker that I think they should strongly consider trying to acquire him. He’s just so freaking good. And the price should be more reasonable due to the surgery.

      1. Counterpoint: His last full season’s worth of games (spread over 3 years) are probably somewhat fluky based on his very bad BB rate and mediocre K rate. I don’t think you can count on those numbers going forward even if he is healthy, which is a big if.

  109. BTW … if you are Mike Rizzo, you are in an absolute power position right now. There is probably going to be a bidding war on Max Scherzer (especially after he proved his arm is healthy today).

    1. Reminds me of the Cole Hamels no-hitter right before he was traded. We definitely sold at the top of his market and it netted us . . . . uh, never mind. LOL.
      For what it’s worth Mike Rizzo is smart enough not to try to fix all problems with one trade. You’re way better off getting one A level prospect than 4 B- and C+ level prospects. I guess we learned nothing from the Curt Schilling deal.

  110. Cubs traded Ryan Tepera to the White Sox. Another reliever off the board. Someone suggested DD might forego getting a back of the pen arm and go after a SP in a bigger trade with another bat. I’m feeling it. In fact, at this point frameworks have probably been agreed to, now it’s a matter of which Sellers say yes to.

  111. You really think the Rays would give up a 23 year old cost control pitcher if he was any good? Meanwhile Curtis Meade is tearing it up in the Rays system. About the same level of trade as Victor Santos for C.J. Chatham. And they were not Klentak trades.

    1. Asa that’s a good call by you. Not sure what the Rays have going on but if they call you and want to make a deal maybe you should hang up the phone

      Snell has been very blah for the Friars as well…

      Pitino OTOH has pitched pretty good for the Rays

  112. mark, I am beginning to think you are correct. From what has transpired so far, I think we could have gotten Hand or Tepera without damaging our system. I think SP is the #1 item on DD’s to do list.

  113. Seriously?!?! We lose 3 of 4 to the Nats….forget about buying anything. Turn tail and sell…otherwise, let’s hope for a monsoon…like, real soon.

    1. That be a good pick up for very little….

      I’ve been on the sell side for months but when you see some of the deals that went down….well my eyebrows are raised.

  114. If the Phillies lose their second game, they should consider trading some of their guys.

  115. I don’t think it can be highlighted enough just how far Andy MacPhail set this franchise back when he hired Matt Klentak over Chaim Bloom.

    I know LHPs often take some extra time to develop … but … the Christopher Sanchez deal could end up going down as the worst Klentak transaction (and I know there are a lot of terrible ones to choose from) in his not so illustrious career as Phillies GM.

    Chaim Bloom had to trade Sanchez before he left him available in the rule 5 draft. Bloom asked Klentak for Curtis Mead. Klentak said, “Sure!”
    The 20 YO Austriallian infielder is slashing .342/.398/.546 in nearly 300 PA between A- and A+ this year.

    Andy MacPhail stole/is still stealing John Middleton’s stooopid money.

    1. You know the scene in My Cousin Vinny when the young kid decides to go with the public defender LOL that was JM

      To the kids credit in the movie he didn’t wait too long to get up and say I WANT HIM

    1. If Harper has left the game with a injury. And if that injury is going to have him out of the lineup for any extended period of time … then yes. DD may turn to seller. Just have to wait and see what’s up with Harper.

  116. Just saw today’s Phillies scores so far.. Good Lord. And nada on the buy/sell front.. #Ugly

    1. In fairness to DD, nobody saw Didi crumble like this. He has fallen off a cliff at age 31. He had a bounceback year last season, and perhaps he could continue it. Unfortunately, he didn’t. It’s really unfortunate.

      As a comparison, Jean has 3+ WAR at age 31 so you never know.

      1. No but there were some other good SS out there for 1 year deals. Who hands down were better than Didi defensively

        I’ll give DD a pass on that just saying it stings a little knowing what we know now

  117. Granted, this is only one day in the life of long-decade-suffering Phillies fans, but man, this lineup sucks. The roster has a few above average players, that’s it. No chemistry. No energy. Dombrowski won’t change course based on this day’s abysmal display of lifeless baseball, but is there really any hope of approaching within a sniff of playing deep into October, or merely keeping nominal fans interested enough to buck the turnstiles?

  118. Someone make the argument that Joe Girardi is a good Manager. I would love to hear the logic. How does he add any value?

    This team is toast. It needs a complete blow up and re-make. Adjustments on the edges won’t fix our issues.

    1. I didn’t hate the move I honestly thought he would be better but I would have gone Buck

    2. I agree. Why is it the fans can see this reality better than the organization? I could embrace this strategy of a rebuild at least knowing the future is bright. This baseball purgatory stinks.

  119. I didn’t think the 2d game started until 3:50. So, to my surprise/horror, we are already losing 7-0! We are running out of adjectives, awful, terrible, disgraceful, all for $205M, Sanchez was just, pick whatever word you want that describes bad.

  120. For the love of baseball … this team is frustrating. I can see losing to Scherzer, the way the cookie crumbled, and not really fair after what happened in BOS , but to be down 7-0 in the second game … smh come in fellas show some fight … like your slogan says.

    1. I’d love to know what their thought process possibly could’ve been to scratch VV and start Sanchez especially when they’ve been trying to trade for a starter.

    1. And the Giants have gone 13-12 over the last 25 and still remain a notch or two over the Dodgers.

  121. I retract my buy position and now recommend selling as in the whole organization to Montreal. Then one of u rich guys Hinkie or Romus buy the Tampa organization and move them up here. Giddy up on that now.

      1. I would love that; sell to Montreal and move Tampa Rays here. Fantastic idea!!!!!!!!!!

  122. This is some ugly, ugly baseball! A very abysmal, disgusting and pathetic product. Playoffs, playoffs……..we need some guys to make a run for the playoffs. I wonder who DD is getting calls on, that we could sell.

  123. Dombrowski will probably do in the off-season, as Fletcher is doing with the Flyers… make substantial changes.
    As Fletcher earlier this week……you cannot keep going with the same group of players and expect different results…..a take off of the insanity theory Joe Banner once said about the Eagles.

  124. Please God. Talk some sense into Middleton and sell sell sell (I know it won’t happen).

    The NL East reminds me of the NFC East. The NFC East was so bad that the Eagles were in it until close to the end. I have tons of problems with Roseman, but to his credit he didn’t trade high draft picks so the Eagles could go 7-9 and win the division only to immediately be bounced out of the playoffs.

    The NL East is actually better than last year’s version of the NFC East.

  125. One of the all-time great coaching rants. I would LOVE Girardi do this in his postgame presser.

    1. Now lets just hope the return is not great for the the two months of Scherzer.
      Assume will be the catcher Luis Campusano and a low level tier pitcher.

  126. My guess: Nats get Weathers, Morejon, and a lottery ticket or two.

  127. Looks like a hamstring injury to Rhys now. Looks like we are trending towards being a seller quickly.

  128. Relying on Hector to keep the game within reach is like asking an arsonist to be the fire chief. When was his last clean inning? Most of his outings are physically painful to watch.

  129. I am sure that Scherzer is elated that his last game pitching for the Nationals was a thumping of the Phillies. He and Washington just love sticking that final dagger into the Phils.

    Well, it was a good run (no, it really wasn’t) so I guess I should be the first to say/write, “Wait till next year”. My goodness, I’ve said that for the last ten years and am tired of it.

  130. VV pinch hitting in the last inning. How things change in one day ! Time to sell. Injuries to Bryce and Rhys could be the deciding factors in the next few hours.

  131. They’re not selling. Way too close to the trade deadline to suddenly switch gears.

  132. I don’t even know what to say, except a gutsy W, and a team that, for sure, didn’t quit. I don’t know what DD does, but the team deserves some added Pitching. I still can’t believe it.

  133. See I rip the team and good things happen. This team stinks. I don’t think it 100% right that the doubleheader only went 7 innings in gm1, especially why ur was nats with COVID issues.

  134. See I rip the team and good things happen. This team stinks. I don’t think it 100% right that the doubleheader only went 7 innings in gm1, especially why ur was nats with COVID issues.

  135. Rizzo to the Yanks, Danny Duffy to the Dodgers. Why are we completely out of all the rumors? I am hoping because DD is close to something good. I figure the odds were so high that we could come back from 7-0, they can’t be much higher that we have a good trade coming also.

    1. And now maybe scherzer and turner! Holy shnikes it must be great to be a dodgers fan!

  136. Kudos, of course, to Brad Miller but let’s give a lot of credit to Nola for drawing a big walk. Let the trading commence. I love trades!

  137. For 4 years we are a mediocre team, mediocre teams win 81 games. I can see a low level deal or two and that’s smart, like someone else said wait til the offseason just like Fletcher has done for the Flyers.

  138. With the exception of Luzardo going to the Marlins, there does not seem to be much in the way of highly regarded prospects. The Cubs eat Rizzo’s money, and did not get much from the Yankees. I think there are moves to be made without giving up too much. I would just like one to happen already!

  139. If the Phillies do nothing at the trade deadline based on this teams outlook that would be the most Phillies thing ever..

  140. Less than 24 hours until trade deadline.

    Which of the following will the Phillies do?
    1. Sell
    2. Do nothing
    3. Make a trade for a useless reliever or starter
    4. Make a splash

  141. TrollU, hoping for 4, think it will be 3. As the Dodgers add Scherzer and Turner and the Yanks get Gallo and Rizzo, and I wait and hope for anything involving my team, really anything, it is depressing and sad that we were once a relevant and major player in Baseball, and could get Lee and Doc and Oswalt, and now, after 10 years of a rebuild, we are barely hanging in because the Division is so bad, but we are not close to being a major player. Hinkie said it earlier, the decision to bring in MacPhail and Klentak was such a monumental failure, and with our market and financial resources, is inexcusable.

  142. Sherzer said no to trade to Philadelphia. Not sure if that is state of team or doesn’t want to deal with perceived fanbase.

    1. Sherzer reportedly want to go to a playoff-caliber west coast team. Specifically, Padres, Dodgers, or Giants.

      1. I have always thought the league might force teams into trades to favor certain team.

  143. Why are contending teams trading their primary closers (even if in a committee)?! First Mariners trade Graveman! Now Rays trade Diego Castillo?!!! And neither did it fit some great prospect or haul. Seems crazy.

    1. It’s extremely odd. I heard that the Mariners players were not happy. Graveman was having a career year as a first time closer. But he was headed to FA.

      As for Tampa, they do their things their way.

  144. I can’t believe that the Nats traded Trea Turner and we didn’t get him. Turner is exactly what we need. Slides into SS. Improves our defense and hitting. There is no one whom I wouldn’t trade for him. I would trade Bohm and Howard for Turner in a second.

    1. If the talk is accurate about Turner wanting to sign with an East Coast club then I think the Phillies have a shot when he becomes a free agent after 2022. While some of the bigger spending East Coast clubs have shortstops locked up – Boston (Bogaerts), Mets (Lindor), and Toronto (Bichette), it doesn’t preclude them from switching positions. The Yankees will also be a possibility but let’s see what they do at SS after this offseason.

      I’m like you and think Turner fits the Phillies very well long-term. Certainly, Harper will push for it and they’ll clear 2023 luxury tax space for a big signing like Turner. He solves a lot of problems for any club but in particular would give the Phillies a great defensive presence and the pure leadoff hitter they’ve been lacking. He should also age well because he’s not overly reliant on any skill set.

      I’ll be curious to see how he fits with the Dodgers. No question he’ll make them better, which is scary. I’m sure they’ll try very hard to extend him to a contract but they have so many players to pay (Bellinger, Buehler, Seager, Smith, etc.) that I’m not sure they can keep everyone. Plus, back to my original point – is playing for an East Coast team a priority to him? Time will tell.

      1. I think this trade pretty much guarantees Seager makes it to the open market this winter.

        1. With Boras as his agent it was a foregone conclusion that Seager was going to test free agency. His market will be really interesting and I anticipate it will be late in the offseason before anything is decided. Lots of moving parts with his pending negotiations.

          That said, I prefer Turner and if the Phillies ever find themselves with a choice that’s who I hope they sign.

      2. Signing Turner would be nice, but likely not doable. I have mentioned previously that the Phillies are already paying Harper/Realmuto/Wheeler big money. Signing Turner guarantees that the Phillies will not re-sign Eflin or Nola. In fact, signing Turner would mean everybody else on that team would likely have to be not on any sort of decent FA contract.

  145. Said yes to Boston. No great feat to be compared to NY fan base. Why do Boston teams win so much?

  146. The Phillies next play the Pirates for 3 (with no Frazier) and the Nationals for 4 (likely with no Sherzer and Turner). It’s time for the Phillies to go on a winning streak and take advantage of this easier second half schedule. Minimum, they have to go 5-2 or better.

  147. Dodgers get even better
    Nationals get a good haul

    Anyone coveting Wheeler or Nola? May be some good prospects out there

  148. The Yankees and Dodgers just crashed the party. In typical big market team fashion. So The legitimate question is … do you want to sell to meet the dodgers in the playoffs? You’d have to get all those players :

    Buxton berrios Donaldson, Bryant & Kimberl. If you don’t make an all in move, I’d give very fringe prospects because it’s seems as if you would just be throwing them away at this point. Anything can happen but … yeah that’s some pretty tough opponents.

  149. If the Mets don’t do much or the braves … you can probably win the division making small tweaks and players stepping up, because facing the dodgers, a team b

    Sign Hamels, Move Howard to the pen, with vv. Tell them to gas it, strikeouts, no contact style. Start Miller 🙂 see where the chips fall

    1. It sounds like Hamels is not currently throwing hard enough to be effective.

      Get Falter healthy, build up his arm strength, and get him in the rotation by mid-August. He has the highest upside for this season of all in-house options.

      1. Oh yeah, and use Howard as a 3-inning starter. Let’s put him in a position to succeed. We can deal with his long-term prospects next year.

  150. There is no doubt that the Dodgers paid a steep price for Sherzer (a rental) and Turner (one more year of control). Clearly the Dodgers are going for it and they pretty much gutted their system to do it.

    The Nats made out well, all things considered. But you know what, the odds of Ruiz and Gray replicating the careers of Sherzer/Turner are not high so as Phillies fans, we should be happy to see Sherzer and Turner out of there.

  151. The Nationals are having a fire sale. As a result, our old friend Brandon Workman got DFAd by the Red Sox!

  152. There is plenty of time left….sorry to see Hudson go because he was the least expensive most valuable closer/reliever. But Cubs are gutting their team and there is alot more to happen. Stay tuned. It will be Buy not Sell. This trade deadline is also about who is left standing in the end – the prices go down…..

    1. 100% agree with RU. The closer we get to four o’clock, the lower the prices become for trade targets. I don’t know what DD is planning/can pull off … but … Craig Kimbrel and Raisel Iglesias haven’t yet been traded. Chris Bryant, Trevor Story, Jon Gray, Jonathan Schoop are still available. And the Twins have yet to move any of Berrios/Buxton/Donaldson/Rogers.

      Also … you gotta’ remember those MLB Pipeline prospect lists are now 6 months old. Keibert Ruiz and Josiah Gray are really good prospects, but IMO Bobby Miller and Ryan Pepiot are better prospects. I think Rizzo should have demanded one/both of them in the Scherzer/Turner deal.

      1. Nats do need a long term catcher..Ruiz fits the bill
        And agree….rather have two of three of…Miller, Pepiot or even Beeter than Gray
        Jesse Dougherty , their beat guy, seems to be on board with Rizzo’s decision.

        I question why Turner was included…..Dodgers probably now will let Seager walk ..they do have Turner for the extra year-2022 then he walks in 2023.

        1. The Dodgers are going to have let a lot of people walk. I doubt that they can re-sign both Kershaw and Sherzer.

          1. Yes…..that will be the case…..Bellinger and Buehler will want to get paid also…….I wonder who they may QO.

  153. Here are some teams with whom Dombrowski may be speed texting today. Lots of movement yesterday which means that prices go down so long as you’re not left standing without a dance partner…

    Rockies: Story and Gray
    Cubs: Bryant, Kimbrel and maybe Hendricks
    Twins: Berrios, Buxton, Donaldson and Rogers
    Rangers: Gibson and Kennedy
    Orioles: Fry or Scott…and what about Cedric Mullins?
    Pirates: Rodriguez…and how about Brian Reynolds?
    Royals: Merrifield

    1. I would add Zach Davies to your Cubs’ list.
      Also wouldn’t rule out Detroit’s Michael Fulmer and/or Matthew Boyd. Both are currently on the IL, but they are each under control thru 2022 … and both of them have a history with DD. Dombrowski’s final two deals while with the Tigers brought back Fulmer, Boyd, and Daniel Norris (who is a rental, and could be another target).
      Last week, JL26 brought up the name Andrew Miller. Miller works for me as a rental.
      Also, Dombrowski should be in the market for a RH bench bat. Jonathan Schoop would be a good fit. And I saw enough of Josh Harrison this week to know he is on another planet right now with the bat. He could add a spark to the Phils’ offense.

      1. The Rockies have a few other starters besides Gray that have to be of interest to the Phillies…Marquez, Freeland and Gomber. Also relievers Bard or Estevez certainly would be an upgrade to our bullpen. The Diamondbacks starter Merrill Kelly is pitching well and would be a good replacement for the loss of Anderson. A reliever by the name of Noe Ramirez has had success this year and an old name that has had some good outings is Soria. Pitching help is out there if the trade makes sense.

  154. Now that the Nationals have gutted their team, and the Cubs are in the process of doing the same … you’ve gotta’ take a step back, and understand the impact this has on the Phillies.
    The Phils have 60 games remaing in 2021. Over half of them are against clubs who will have top 10 picks (maybe even top 8 picks) in next summer’s draft. Dombrowski’s squad still has 31 games to be played with the DBacks (worst record in MLB), Orioles (second worst club in the league), Pirates (fourth most terrible club), Rockies (sixth most pathetic team in baseball), and the Nats and Cubs (9th & 11th with a bullet(s) on the crappy clubs list). This is one of the reasons why Dave Dombrowski is shopping today.

  155. Well its a big day. I’d like to give up nothing and get a SP, CF or SS and a closer

    Or how desperate are the Padres now that they lost out on MadMax 🙂

  156. Sox get Schwarber for a pitcher…..RHP-Aldo Ramirez… now ranked number 8 on Nats top 30.

  157. Here’s another thing…the Mets (especially) are scrambling for similar type upgrades as we are. That will impact (or IS impacting) trade negotiations more than anything. Let’s hope Dave’s experience in this rodeo will give him the edge over the Keystone Cops running the Mets organization.

  158. I can’t get out of my head that Trea Turner was traded and we didn’t go all in to get him. If you could name one player who is literally perfect for this team, it is Trea Turner. He immediately provides a dramatic improvement to both our offense and defense. And he fits perfectly with the Harper/JTR/Wheeler/Nola timeline. That would have been a transformational deal. Total game changer. I can’t believe we weren’t all in on him.

    1. I believe there are underlying, unspoken rules which obstruct trades between division rivals who dislike each other as much as Rizzo and the Phillies, although I can’t speak to the history between Dombrowski and Rizzo. They might not have even bothered knowing the Dodgers farm is flush and the Phillies is, well…flushed.

      1. I don’t believe that. They want to maximize value. Yes they gave up good players but they also got good players in return. If our players that we offered were better than the Dodgers players then Turner would be a Philly today.

        1. They weren’t going to trade Turner within the division … not that the Phillies had the prospect capital to compete with the Dodgers anyway.

          1. I don’t believe that is really how GMs think. I believe they always want to maximize return. The players they got from Phillies would be in division too.

  159. Romus/Hinkie – Didn’t the Phillies have Josh Harrison under contract a couple of spring trainings ago and let him walk because of a “numbers crunch”?

    Does anyone on this site believe that Scherzer will resign with the Nats next season giving Washington their ace pitcher and a really big haul in a lost season?

    1. Yes, Ciada. Harrison was in spring training camp last season. The Phillies either released him, or he asked for his release when he thought he wasn’t going to make the opening day roster.

      And no, I don’t think the Nationals will re-sign Scherzer. He’ll probably get a shorter term/higher AAV deal from a club ready to make a run at the WS.

  160. Stop the presses…we’re alright now…the Phillies acquired minor league LHP Braeden Ogle from Baltimore.

    1. actually liked it for a moment thinking he was a starting pitcher who might be able to come up and be a warm body to get us 5 innings, but he’s been working exclusively as a reliever i see.
      remember when Ogle was drafted as a high schooler out of Florida by Pitt back in 2016-
      unfortunately this caused me to look up round 4 of the 16 draft where he went and be reminded of Corbin Burnes and Shane Bieber going after we picked Jo Jo Romero.

    1. He’s gone.

        1. The Phils had to trade a young catcher. They have the best catcher in baseball at the Major League level. They have Knapp, Marchan, O’Hoppe, Duran and a partridge in a pear tree coming along. Trade the guys who can’t be there when JT Realmuto is done. Gutierrez is definitely one of those. I loved the guys bat but he’s not getting many MLB ABs in the next few years. Marchan is the better defensive catcher and he’s ready to get called up, at anytime. O’Hoppe’s playing like he’ll be ready in a few years. Duran has a cannon for a bat.

  161. Seriously, mark, I was so excited when I refreshed MLB Trade Rumors for the 100th time this morning and saw “Phillies Acquire”, before I saw Minor Leaguer Braeden Ogle! I Know! I am going crazy hoping for anything that gets us a SP that is better than watching what we have been throwing out there. And, I know all the reasons that we are not very good, but I still think we can win this Division, and that is something.

  162. Starlin Castro got suspended 30 games for DV and will be cut by the Nationals. They will be eating most of his 2 year, $12M contract. His career is likely over.

  163. OK, so we can’t do anything big, medium or even small will do! Clearly, I want them to do something, but aside from that, what is the value in moving Spencer? The rest of the league is wary of what he is and where he is going, so we were not getting Trea Turner or Max Scherzer for him. Why trade him when his trade value is so low? Abel/Stott, I am ok not moving them.

    1. I’ve been saying this for years. If we see something wrong with players, the other teams see it too. So if we’re trading these type of players, we’re not going to get full value back. Teams are going to lowball us for these players. And if that’s the case, you might as well keep them and hope they can be move past their struggles.

  164. Even if Buxton isn’t part of the deal, I would take on Donaldson’s money to get Berrios. It would not be Bohm and Howard, but I have to believe that getting out from Donaldson’s contract is worth quite a bit to the Twins. But, it seems the Blue Jays are frontrunners.

    1. wow, Woods and Martin for him- im not sold on Berrios and doubt that gets Toronto where they want to be.

      1. It’s a big haul for the Twins. Did the Blue Jays overpay? Of course, but that’s what happens when teams get into a bidding war. Note that the Blue Jays will definitely QO him when he becomes a FA because there’s no way the Blue Jays will give him what he wants.

        My buddy, the Blue Jays fan, is not happy about the trade.

        1. Tell your buddy to enjoy Berrios. He’s maybe the most underrated SP in MLB. Toronto won that deal IMO.

          1. He told me he would be happier with the trade if it was Groshans going instead of Martin.

  165. I guess that the Phillies were just dying to get rid of Gutierrez. But why? Too many catchers in the organization? And after what the Pirates pulled, why are they still dealing with them?

    1. IMO, they wouldn’t have had to protect Gutierrez. Highly, highly unlikely another team would pick a 21 YO catcher who’s never played above low-A ball. OTOH, Ogle is much more likely to get stolen (as a 22 YO LHP who hits 96 MPH) if not added to the 40 man.
      Not saying I don’t like the deal. I do like the deal.

      Kyle Dohy has looked really good lately. I’d like to see him re-added to the 40-man. I’d rather see Dohy get a chance out of the Phillies BP than see Matt Moore moved in there if DD finds an arm or two today.

  166. MLB just reported that the Phillies are making a push for Kyle Gibson from Texas. Wanted him in free agency two years ago but he preferred the midwest. Less than three hours to go.

    1. Gibson and Kennedy would move the needle. Bryant is going somewhere by 4pm, why not here? Or Buxton and Rogers would be a fine get.

  167. Getting down to the nitty gritty … well the goal is to end the playoff drought, get this team some experience in winning down the stretch, not to gut the thinned out farm system. If DD has a pulse on what the braves and Mets might do, he can limit the gutting. I think Howard could plug some of that bullpen holes. Im very weary of making big trades if the defense doesn’t get sured up in the process. Too many ways to lose a game Imo. Need to excel at 2 of – hitting, pitching, and defense. Helps not to have a great manager too, but let’s not go there. Interested to see what the Phillies, braves, and Mets do. I’d rather the Phillies get a serviceable #3 or 4, put Howard and VV in pen. Wait for sir Anthony, and sign. Hamels. Let the offense stay where it is, save the bullets for next year. Especially if the Mets and braves limp out of the deadline too. Win the division with as minimal casualties as possible

  168. Braves pick up Adam Duvall and Rosario, so they are doing something. I would like a small deal, not a Minor Leaguer, just so I know we are doing something.

  169. The Padres and the Giants have so far let the Dodgers get really better at the trade deadline. The Padres have kept an eye on the luxury tax threshold. They are desperate to unload Hosmer’s contract and are willing to attach a top 100 prospect like Hassell to make it happen. That 8 year, $144M contract of Hosmer has been a disaster for the Padres. 2.3 WAR for the first 4 years of the deal. Hosmer is still owed $59M for the last 4 years of his deal. Yikes.

      1. I don’t think anybody here believes that Harper is going to be a stud for all 13 years. You hope that he doesn’t decline too soon. For me, I think the last 4 years of that deal is going to be bad, so he better do well in the first 9 years. And for the first 3 years, he’s lived up to his contract so that’s good.

    1. If that’s true, Dave Dombrowski should tell Middleton to pony up some stooopid money, forget the LTT, and eat Hosmer’s contract to add Hassell to the farm. He would immediately move to the top of the Phillies prospect list. And we’ve already seen what prospect capital means to organizations. If the Phillies have one tool at their disposal it is financial clout. May as well put it to use.

  170. Still have suspicions Spencer and another, go to the Cubs and Bryant and Kimbel head to Philly

    1. Nope. Kimbrel to ChiSox

      Phillies continue to sit on their hands

      We will hear they were close but deals didn’t transpire

  171. Gotta wonder what Harper and Bryant are saying to one another. Best buds … playoff race time, teams could match up. Gotta believe Bryant is a philly next year, maybe sooner

  172. .

    Sorry. Just can’t see another club not making a deal with DD because a 20 YO prospect may not be available for a week because of COVID protocols.

  173. Personally, I don’t believe Gibson is a good fit in Philly. He pitched really well early in Texas but not so much of late. He’s pitched well there because it’s Texas, not a lot of pressure. Put him into this mess, we posters included, and I think he may wilt.

    1. Well … what athlete doesn’t want to be in a playoff race? If you can’t handle that pressure, I really don’t see how you last in the majors. It should be a non factor but somehow it’s not. It should keep you on your toes, in the Game. I can’t imagine a player saying – the fans boo me so I’m going to try less/careless than I did before. You can’t do your teammates dirty like that, or the person who signs your checks. It’s amazing how this aspect has to be considered, but it does.

      1. It’s not about TRYING any less. Some players are just not good in certain situations. Think of it like how Greinke has social anxiety; it doesn’t mean he can’t be a good (or great) MLB player, just that he’ll thrive in certain places and not others.

        The other end of the spectrum is the “closer mentality” where people often give a pass to closers having a bad game when it isn’t high pressure. Why is it okay for them to phone it in just because it’s not a 1-run lead? The answer is it isn’t, but generally they AREN’T phoning it in. They’re just out of their element. Doesn’t mean they aren’t good anymore.

        The human element has always been, and will always be, part of the game. Normally that’s a reference to umpires, but it’s way more applicable to the players. Small things can make a huge difference for certain players. And some players will just never be successful in certain circumstances.

        1. As Dallas Green once said….when looking for a player for your team, with talent perceived to be equal, , look at the heart and the head.

  174. Rox have reportedly lowered the asking price on Trevor Story….which means he shouldn’t cost us Spencer Howard or any high ranking prospects.

  175. I’d be happy with Kyle Gibson (depending on what they have to give up to get him). He’d be a significant upgrade at SP4. He gives you innings (6 IP per start in 2021). Phillies could definitely use that. He also keeps the ball out of the air. That should be a good thing, but with this team’s INF defense …
    He’s also under contract through 2022. This would help the club.

    1. Now that I see that Spencer Howard may be heading to Texas, I take back my support for this deal. Just think Howard hasn’t been handled well by the organization, and he is/will be worth more than 1.5 years of Gibson and 2 months of Kennedy.

      1. I wouldn’t be happy with this deal. This is the type of deal that can really come back to haunt us,

  176. Bleacher Nation
    @BleacherNation
    ·
    48m
    On Kris Bryant, I don’t think I’ve equivocated: since I don’t think an extension is possible, & since I think re-signing in FA is very unlikely (variety of factors), it’s my opinion that a trade that nets more than a comp pick is probably the right move.

  177. I think it’s Buxton. Seems like a Phillies move. High upside should have to give less, and they’ll have money to resign him. If they dealt with Quinn, they can probably deal with a better player than Quinn who is injured less often

    1. Well no need for him to get a moving company now……Phillies are running out of quality relievers to chase…Iglesias maybe.

      1. Phillies don’t have the prospects for a quality reliever

        They will trade for a lotto type and we’ve seen how that WORKedMan

  178. I would rather deal Howard as part of a Buxton trade than a Gibson trade.

  179. Wow, the Cubs picked up Nick Madrigal and Codi Heuer for Kimbrel. That’s a big time cost. That’s definitely talent for talent.

  180. Phillies ain’t ending the drought if this happens

    Mets, Cubs Discussing Javier Baez
    July 30th, 2021 at 1:43pm CST • By Mark Polishuk
    The Mets and Cubs are in talks about shortstop Javier Baez and “possibly more,” as per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal and Jayson Stark (Twitter link). A pitcher may also be involved as part of the negotiations, The New York Post’s Joel Sherman tweets.

    More to come…

  181. Here are a couple of “Would you do’s”.

    Would you do: Erik Miller and JoJo Romero for (2 months of) Raisel Iglesias?

    Would you do: Spencer Howard, Bryson Stott, Logan O’Hoppe, and Jordi Martinez for (1.5 years of) Byron Buxton and (1.5 years of) Taylor Rogers?

  182. A Buxton/Donaldson get would set the Phillies up nicely…if a bit pricely…for the next couple years. Donaldson would bump Bohm to either 1b, DH or LF, or Hoskins gets dealt for bullpen help in the off season. And lots of prayer for Byron’s “avail”ability🙏

    And yes, Hinkie, let’s ask for Rogers and send Howard to the Twins with little else since we’d be taking on JD’s money, no?

  183. Mets get Baez, an hour to go. Hinkie, No on Iglesias, most likely yes on Buxton, assuming I Know he is healthy. And, that may not be possible.

  184. Wow, the Nationals just sold off everybody. It’s literally Soto and Robles left on offense.

    Walk Soto at least twice a game and the Phillies should sweep them.

  185. I’m note sure which deal is more shocking, the haul for Berrios or the haul for Kimbrel. This deadline has been insane. It’s like vultures picking over the bones of the non-playoff teams.

  186. According to Jim Salisbury the Cubs demand for Kimbrel was Mick Abel. NO can do, according to Salisbury, and I am just fine with that. No way I trade Abel.

  187. Wow! Now let’s get Buxton and Donaldson and Dombrowski can sleep for the rest of the season.

    1. If Howard is gone, there’s no way the Phillies will get Buxton without Abel.

      I believe the Phillies are done dealing.

    1. As I posted above, I would not have dealt Spencer Howard for Gibson and Kennedy. If I’m trading Howard, it would be for more than this.

      1. OK. Not sure if this is referring to his Spencer Howard tweet or not.

    2. Somebody better tell Howard to stop what he’s doing and say his goodbyes.

      This has really been unfortunate. If Howard got out of the gate faster, then he would have likely not been traded. But this is what happens when you’re a contending team. Phillies are win first and development second.

        1. We did not have to trade one of our most talented young players for players who dont move the needle.

  188. This trade deadline is killing me, but I hope they do indeed keep Howard, put him in the pen for the stretch drive, get buxton and sign Hameln, do it DD

  189. It feels like this is going to be a bad overpay. Howard still with #3 starter potential or multi-inning shutdown relief role. If the other minor leaguers are anything other than scraps I can’t say I’m a fan. Gibson’s career/advanced metrics don’t thrill me, especially since he’s a ground ball pitcher on a team with an infield who can’t field ground balls. Kennedy has never been anything special. I’m getting Workman, Hembree, and David Hale vibes with his repertoire. Hope I’m wrong about all of this. Very pessimistic.

    1. Well, good luck to you guys. Please don’t beat us in the World Series in a couple years. We get kicked when we’re down too often as it is.

    2. Sorry to see Spencer go, Mr. H. Best of luck to him. Enjoy his ride.
      Too bad this team wasn’t smart enough to plot a clear path for him, and spent the year yanking him around.

    3. Wish you two the very best. Thanks Mr. H for your classiness and your input here. I am optimistic the Rangers will work out to be a Very Good opportunity for Spencer!

  190. It’s a done deal, Howard is saying his goodbyes to his teammates.

    This is what happens when you go for it. Gibson is controllable for 2022 at a reasonable salary. So a rotation of Wheeler/Nola/Eflin/Gibson/Falter is not that bad.

  191. Phillies get Kyle Gibson and Ian Kennedy from Rangers for Spencer Howard, Kevin Gowdy and Josh Gessner, per sources.

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    @JeffPassan

    @Evan_P_Grant

    all on it

    1. 2017 second round pick….starter right now in AA with good numbers..we got him?

      1. apparently no confirmation of his involvement- read that he lacks a reliable third pitch and was listed as a guy who could be a closer in the future.

        1. I liked him back in 2017 but the elbow spurs and subsequent removal took a bit out and slowed his development… like Gowdy
          Hopefully he is involved in the trade….makes it a bit more bearable in the long run..

          1. its official now. was reading a twitter feed talking about him becoming more of a pitcher of late, still with command issues- said lower ceiling then before but higher floor.

  192. Gowdy and Gessner the two minor leaguers, sounds like. Gessner has had basically no work in the minors; former signee out of Australia. I have no opinion on him.

    Gowdy, however, I hate including in this. I get that he’s likely never cracking the majors and they wanted a lottery ticket, but I LOATHE giving up multiple pitching prospects with high upside. I was already upset about giving away Spencer for a groundball pitcher and a good-not-great reliever. This makes me despise the deal.

    I can already see both of the pitchers we got bombing in Philly while Howard starts to blossom with an organization that utilizes him properly. If Gowdy ends up contributing in a couple years, I may throw my TV out of the window.

      1. Based on what little I’ve seen of him, I think he’ll be a reliever long term. Which is fine, it makes me feel better about losing Gowdy. But this is still not a return I’m comfortable with for Spencer.

    1. And what will you do if Howard becomes a decent, not elite, reliever and Gowdy never gets higher than AA? And what if Cruise becomes a decent 5th SP? Deals are all crapshoots. Bottom line is that this deal wouldn’t have happened if Howard had been as good this year as we all hoped.

      1. I’ll still remember that we could have gotten better players in return for a young pitching prospect that teams coveted.

        Crouse makes me feel better about Gowdy being gone, but not about Howard.

      2. 100% correct.

        I think after we all calm down, we’ll see that this deal is not as bad as it seems.

        My buddy thinks that the Phillies won this deal.

  193. Crouse is a lefthanded Pitching prospect, so basically he replaces Gowdy in our system.

    1. He’s just closer to the majors and has had better numbers although Gowdy may still have a higher ceiling.

    2. Gowdy has likely already peaked, Crouse sounds like a good pitching prospect with upside. (injury concerns from past and may end up as a reliever)

  194. Mr. Howard – We’ll miss you as much as we’ll miss your son. There will be less pressure to succeed immediately in Texas. I’m sure he’s headed to a solid MLB career. Just wish it could have been here.

    1. Dave Dombrowski is starting to create his own team and remove some of the McKlentak players from this team. I don’t understand why almost everyone is so upset with trading Spencer Howard who lacks the arm strength to be a good MLB starter and looks like a MLB reliever at best. Gowdy and Gessner are lottery tickets for the Rangers who may make their team sometime. This trade helps the Phillies now try to take the NL Least Division.

  195. Now this makes the deal more interesting. Hans Crouse was a big time prep pitcher a few years ago. He was headed to USC until the Rangers picked him in the second round. Big arm.

    More creativity is this one deal (Dombrowski’s first biggie) than any move Klentak made during his five years in charge.

  196. Gowdy was a good roll for Texas, I still think he could turn into a piece for Texas. My guess, him and Howard could be big bullpen pieces. Time will tell, I’m not over hyped about thr deal, I’m hoping DD can squeeze buxton out of the twins

  197. Now this makes the deal more interesting. Hans Crouse was a big time prep pitcher a few years ago. He was headed to USC until the Rangers picked him in the second round. Big arm.

    1. .

      More creativity is this one deal (Dombrowski’s first biggie) than any move Klentak made during his five years in charge.

  198. Eric Longenhagen on Crouse:
    The mercurial Crouse pitched through a bone spur in 2019 and still sat 92-95, about a tick below where he sat for me coming off biceps tendinitis earlier that spring, and he’s been in the 92-97 range since then. It’s the recent injury history paired with the industry’s mechanical xenophobia that fuels the relief projection here, not Crouse’s command or repertoire depth. His changeup now comfortably projects to average, while his fastball/breaking ball combination has been excellent since he was a high school underclassman. And even amid his injuries, Crouse has attacked hitters in games. On occasion, he incorporates all kinds of crafty veteran wrinkles into his delivery’s cadence. An extra shoulder wiggle, a Travoltaian gyration of the hips, the occasional quick-pitch — all sorts of things designed to take hitters by surprise. Lefties get a good look at his fastball because of Crouse’s low slot, and the velo he would theoretically gain out of the bullpen (he was up to 102 out of the bullpen in a 2017 All-Star Game) would give him the margin for error he needs to not be crushed by them. I think he’s a late-inning bullpen arm, for which his personality seems well-suited.

    1. Sounds like Crouse could eventually make this a very sweet deal in about 2 years.

  199. The early buzz at the Athletic is that Phillies won this deal bigly.

  200. Another smart move by DD. Team needed defense. Freddy is as good as it gets with the glove.

  201. What a deal!!! Now we have another Eflin. Same size and similar numbers over the long haul. Are they kidding with Ian Kennedy? Now they have two red heads in the bullpen including Bradley. That just won’t work!

    Seriously though, wasn’t Kennedy one of the big 3 young pitchers that came out of the Yankees system together. One was Joba (remember the “Joba” rule) and one other guy. Anybody remember his name?

    A tribute to Kennedy’s resilience is that he’s the only one still around. Always liked his toughness.

    1. You mean Phil Hughes? He had a decent run, himself. Lasted over a decade in the majors despite never being that good.

  202. The moral of the story today: it’s been a great year to be a seller!
    Considering what took place today/this week … Dave Dombrowski did a nice job. Can’t wait to see what he’s got up his sleeve this winter.

  203. Now, they have to sweep (or at least win 2 of 3) from the Pirates and begin a nice run.

  204. have the braves traded for three different outfielders in one day? plus got r rod from the pirates.

  205. Phillies have only announced the deal for Braeden Ogle.

    They have not officialy announced the Texas deal, presumably until the medicals are done.

  206. Probably to late but I was hoping Buxton would be in CF. Risky move but could pay off. Twins must feel they can get him signed

  207. In my mind DD did a great job! He got a 4th starter [Gibson] who throws ground balls and then brought in an infielder [Galvis] who catches ground balls. Who knew? He got the teams new closer [Kennedy] which will allow either Suarez or Falter to possibly move into the rotation. He acquired a hurler [Crouse] who is now likely the 3rd best pitching prospect in the organization and might even see CBP sometime late next year.

    What’s not to like? And I challenge anyone to defend the thought that Klentak could have ever pulled off these moves. History says he couldn’t have and there never seemed a plan to any deal he made. These moves may not work but at least DD paints a picture that when its complete can be called The Plan.

    Now go sign Hamels for the stretch run and I submit for your approval that the Phils pitching depth and talent by 25%.

    1. Agree…Dave D has been at the game long enough to know what acquisitions will move the needle….and when to pass on any offerings.

    1. Forgot we also need to get rid of another person to get Kennedy on the roster. Maybe Phillips, but my money is on Moore or Anderson.

  208. DD did a good job?

    We traded for a shortstop after signing Didi this off-season for 2 years. We could have signed Simien who is on pace for a 6-7 WAR year and signed only a 1 year deal. And we traded our top pitching prospect for a #4 starter (after signing 2 SP in the off-season) and a reliever who was signed to a minor league deal this past offseason.

    You want to know why we are stuck in neutral? This is it.

    1. There is no doubt that these moves have hampered the Phillies.

      When you bottom feed for pitching (Chase Anderson and Matt Moore), most times it will blow up in your face. I was hopeful, but the odds weren’t on the Phillies’ side.

      The Didi deal was unfortunate. I don’t think too many people complained when Didi was re-signed. I know I was ok with the move. Nobody thought that Didi was going to decline this soon, this fast.

      1. It is not our job to know that. We are fans. We don’t get paid to make decisions. But Toronto knew it. Great teams make great personnel decisions. Bad teams use revisionist history to explain why they make a lot of moves to go nowhere.

        1. This is hindsight talking. Yes, you would figure that GMs would know more than fans because that is their job but nobody knows how these type of transactions will work out. The Padres didn’t know that the Hosmer deal was going to be bad. The Dodgers didn’t know that the Bauer deal was going to be bad. Even the Blue Jays trading for Ross Stripling or the signing of Steven Matz, those were not good deals. The Blue Jays bullpen was a mess so they had to trade for Hand. They could have signed Hand in the beginning of the season which they didn’t. And my buddy, the Blue Jays fan, thinks that even with all these deals, the Blue Jays will still fall short of making the playoffs.

            1. Since 1995, the Blue Jays have made the postseason 3 times. In 2019, they went 67-95. And now all of sudden they know what to do? Give me a break.

            2. V1, did it ever cross your mind that Dombrowski has to clean up the mess the McKlentak era made? It will take time but he has a plan to improve the the team. How can Spencer Howard be our best prospect when he can’t go three innings due to poor arm strength?

            3. of course. but let’s not say that he did a good job when he didn’t. his FA signings this past year were terrible. all of them were terrible except JT. And we just spent resources to clean up his own mess.

  209. Do the Cubs have enough players to field a team tonight? They got vultured, talk about rebuild. That was worse than COVID

  210. v1again…I think you are wrong. You are talking about what DD could have done in the winter when he had just been hired and had only a cursory view of the teams strengths and weaknesses. I am more interested in what he does now and in my view this team is better than it was yesterday and might be appreciably better. As for your arguments, we have no idea what Simien wanted to do, none whatsoever. It is so easy in retrospect to say they should have signed him but for all we know he wanted to stay in the AL and maybe only wanted a 1 year deal, whereas DD had been told Stotts was 2 years away so Didi for 2 years gives the team some latitude.

    And the Phils didn’t trade their best pitching prospect, Abel and Pointer are their best pitching prospects, and I rooted for Howard as much as anyone [I always want Phillie youngsters to succeed] but you could make a case for Crouse for Howard being a fair deal, and he was simply the 3rd wheel on the deal.

    One more thing. I have great respect for someone who recognizes they made a mistake [Didi, Moore, Anderson] and instead of simply continuing the mistake instead goes out to rectify it. This doesn’t sound like spinning in neutral to me.

    Look, I often agree with your insights and always respect them, as I do today, but I simply think you are incorrect here. Time will tell but DD’s track record speaks volumes to me about his ability to navigate the trading deadline.

    1. I wouldn’t put Painter in the same sentence with Abel as “our best pitching prospect.”

  211. With Freddy in the fold, my guess is he anchors the infield while Didi’s playing time is limited. Unfortunately the Phillies have no remaining interleague road games (only 3 at home vs O’s) so the DH will not be in play for the balance of the season. But even should Didi and Freddy split time at SS, the latter is an automatic late game replacement when Didi starts. And will Didi be healthy for much of the time?

    As for not acquiring Buxton, it would bother me if the reason a deal fell through was because we didn’t agree to take JD’s money. Yeah, it’s not my money, but leadership like his is greatly needed on this team which is going for it now…right? Perhaps Stott is viewed as the heir apparent to 3b, who knows.

    The rotation can’t be worse than it was before today, and the bullpen has improved by the reassignment of whoever is losing Kennedy’s innings. And by all accounts, the farm has made a serious upgrade. We have 3 legit future TOR prospects in Abel, Painter and now Hans!

    In the end, it may be the veteran role players like Freddy and Bamboo who push this squad into the post season.

  212. With all do respect to v1again, I’m on board with California Dreamin. Admitting your mistakes and moving on is important. That said, I have to wonder who will be the starting SS. I’m not the biggest Galvis fan (I prefer a smoother, more technically sound SS like Rollins, whom I appreciate more every year), but Gregorius has been just atrocious all year. Galvis even outhits him now.

    While I’m here: https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/mlb-trade-deadline-phillies-add-quirky-prospect-hans-crouse

  213. I think in general you guys develop too many personal ties to our prospects based on what they do in the minors. I used to be a regular on this site, but have stepped away in recent years. I didn’t follow Howard coming up, but right away when I saw him pitch in the majors, I wondered what the fuss was all about. Simply put, he doesn’t pass the eye test.

    This is a great trade.

    1. Regardless of how Howard has pitched this season he still is one of our most promising young players and continues to have a lot of upside. I’m not upset that they traded him as much as I’m upset they traded him for old players that are pretty unexciting and do little to improve our teams outlook. This team is really not good, so why are we giving away young talent for average players? To maybe get to the wildcard? To get knocked out in the first round?

      1. Yes – if you make the playoffs but get knocked out in the first round, it’s not a terrible outcome.

        At some point, the Phils need to show that they belong at the big boys table. Hording prospects, who appear to be middle relievers , isn’t the way to do that.

        Again, I’m sorry – I know that a lot of you guys have followed Spenser moving through the system, but he isn’t a difference maker.

        1. Howard has a better chance at being a difference maker than the guys they got and that’s what’s frustrating. That and trading Howard after tanking his value because this organization couldn’t develop a polaroid.

          1. Like Seranthony form 2017…..Howard’s issue started a few years ago at Clearwater with the shoulder strain/weakness and then he was shutdown for awhile, then there was the second incident…….he may be better suited for a future reliever and a closer’s role.
            His six games at LHV were a mix of pretty short outings to two into the 5th inning.
            And a few times he had 7 days off before starting.
            So they really seem to hand-massage his outings.
            https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=howard000spe&type=pgl&year=2021

            1. I know there was a rain out or something involved in one of those AAA starts. Their “plan” to stretch him out never got off the ground before they called him back up, just like their “plan” to limit his innings. Gotta say it seems like they have no idea what they’re doing.

              Howard’s lack of stamina is a real concern and something I only remember with one other guy: Ethan Martin. It’s possible that it never gets resolved but they needed to try. He was too important as one of two players they have who might have been able to help the team significantly without costing a lot of money.

          2. Howard just turned 25, has made 66 professional starts, but hasnt reached the 300 inning mark- he just hasnt pitched that much- when he is healthy enough to pitch, he can’t pitch too long- so ive been skeptical all along of him becoming a top flight starter- maybe destined for the pen as many have suggested.
            the addition of Crouse makes me feel ok about the deal, though Gibson’s numbers coming back to reality his last 3 outings is concerning.

  214. Overall, not a bad trade with Texas. Apart from filling some obvious needs on the major league club, Crouse is intriguing and will get a crack at a future bullpen job. A potential overlooked aspect of this trade is the money. While the $4M being paid by the Rangers will go towards Gibson’s and Kennedy’s salaries, could they still be enough under the luxury tax to afford Hamels?

    Let me be clear – I fully expect Cole to sign with a contender (West Coast?) and he’ll likely make a decision soon now that he knows how all of the trades sorted out. But it sure would be nice (if he wanted to return) to take a flyer on him without having to give up anything other than money. Who knows if he even has quality stuff right now but this is potentially a low risk/decent to nice reward.

  215. The Phillies inability to scout their own players is what leads to this. Sure, you can say, who knew Didi would decline? Well, if anyone would know, it’s the team who employs him!!

    Can’t scout Josh Harrison in camp 17 months ago (2.5 WAR this year for $1 million salary).

    Can’t scout Cole Irvin (1.8 WAR this year, for minimum salary).

    Can’t scout Andrew Knapp (-1.0 WAR this year; apparently 89 PAs last year fooled them).

    It goes on and on. I don’t necessarily blame DD for that, but he needs to fix it.

    P.S. — I wish Spencer Howard success in Texas.

    1. Cole Irwin is a soft tossing lefty who found way too much of the plate while he was in Philly. I don’t think his success is sustainable.

      1. Agree that he didn’t do well with the Phils — his 45 innings with them were not good.

        On the other hand, he went 20-5 with a 3.07 ERA and a 1.148 WHIP in 255 innings at AAA (a much larger sample size than his innings with the MLB), so . . . it would have been really good for the Phillies to apply scouting expertise to accurately assess his ability. I don’t blame DD for giving him away for “cash considerations” — his internal scouts obviously told him that Irvin wasn’t worth keeping. If I were DD, though, I’d be really unhappy about that outcome, and I’d assess whether I’m getting good advice from these scouts.

        P.S. — FWIW, his ERA this year (3.62) and his FIP (3.60) are almost exactly the same, and he’s put up much better numbers on the road than at home, so nothing indicates that 2021 is a result of luck, or park factors, etc.

    2. Again, this is hindsight talking. Nobody complained when Irvin was traded. Knapp is a backup catcher that won’t determine whether or not the Phillies make the playoffs. As for Josh Harrison, he would have been a bench player for us. And again, if you’re a bench player, you won’t play enough to matter. Starters will determine the direction of the team because in most cases, they’ll easily play like 80%+ games at their position.

      1. You say Josh Harrison would have been a bench player for the Phillies. Maybe so, but if that’s the case, that means the Phillies are incapable of scouting their own players effectively!!! Among position players, Josh Harrison’s WAR this year is beaten only by Harper and Segura. That’s it. And he’s within half a win of both Segura and Harper.

        So if the Phillies had kept Harrison, saying he wouldn’t start for them just underscores — it’s an indictment of — the Phillies ability to scout their own players.

        1. Josh Harrison hasn’t had a good season since 2017. And if other teams thought he was good, he would be making more than his current salary of $1M. Right now, it looks like he’s having a bounce back year. Good for him.

          1. He was a decent player last year in limited time. Put another way, since the Phillies scouts — after getting to see him every day for five or six weeks — said “he’s no good, not worth a roster spot, let him go” in April 2020, he has put up 3.0 WAR in 123 games (449 PAs). That is not good internal scouting.

            Irvin is similar.

            If the Phillies are any good at profession (not amateur) scouting, can we think of any recent examples in the other direction? Sure Irvin might be a one off, Harrison might be a one off, Charlie Morton, who could have predicted, etc., etc. Any recent examples going in the other direction?

            1. Whenever the Phillies make a transaction (like a trade, or DFA a player, or letting a non-productive player walk into FA), there’s always a probability attached to it. What does that mean? The probablity where this move comes back to haunt the Phillies. For example, the Phillies just DFAd Brandon Kintzler. The probablity that this was the wrong move i.e. Kintzler signs with another team and plays well is definitely under 50%. Probably like 20%, but it isn’t zero. So there’s always a chance. This applies to the Spencer Howard trade as well. The only way this trade haunts the Phillies is if Howard or Gessner or Gowdy becomes a 2+ WAR pitcher. What are the odds of that? After seeing Howard’s current struggles, and Gowdy/Gessner being so far away, I’m guessing like 30%? But again, it’s not zero. There’s always a chance. But the Phillies have the House advantage. And over a 5 year, 10 year, 20 year window, you will see that the Phillies have won a LARGE majority of them. And if you’re a GM that only does trades where your advantage is like 90%, then you won’t make any trades at all.

              So the Phillies will NOT win all the transactions, and that’s ok. No team will win all of them.

              But over a SSS, you might think that the Phillies “can’t scout their own players” and that’s not true. Look at all the prospects the Phillies have traded away for Halladay, Oswalt, Pence, Lee, Blanton, and really the best of the bunch over the last 20 years was Carlos Carrasco. So Cole Irvin and Harrison came back to haunt us. Hey, it happens. And guess what, it’ll happen again in the future. No team will win all the transactions. But if Harrison and Irvin is a loss for the Phillies, I’ll take that over trading away Fernando Tatis Jr if you know what I mean.

  216. Regarding Didi, at a minimum he should be sat against all lefties. His numbers this year against lefties are atrocious, and his career numbers aren’t good either.

    1. Agree 100%…..IMO, Didi should be platooned with Galvis….at least to see if it works out…think outside the box for a change.
      And, apparently it was Joe’s persuasive push to go ahead and bring Didi back…for two years though is a difficult pill to swallow now.

  217. So we think Galvis plays more than Didi down the stretch? I dunno, I just don’t see that happening. Think you’ll see Galvis all over the field including some OF.

  218. Phillies made spot for Kennedy by DFA for Kintzler. Jankowski back from COVID and Joyce goes on 60 Day.

  219. Gal is is on IL on the radio said it may be a couple weeks, so Didi still will play

    1. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tyler Burch turns out to be the one player we regret losing today. Just yesterday I was looking at his numbers. An NDFA and in his first pro Game he closes out a no-hitter. Some startling k/9.

  220. Portlandphan..in your haste to criticize dealing Howard for “two old players” you failed to mention that part of that deal was the addition of Hans Crouse, who just might be as potentially talented as Howard. Don’t look now but MLB just made him the Phils #4 prospect. And there is no way the Phils will lose in a 1 game playoff, they either win the East or go home, the wildcards are both coming from the NL West, barring a complete collapse of the Padres.

    Look, I am no shill for Dombrowski, but I will defend him when I think what he does is the correct strategy. I mentioned also that one of his strengths is in admitting when he is wrong and rectifying it. DFA Kintzler the was the latest example.

  221. Everyone might have seen this already, but it was recently reported that DeGrom had a set back and won’t throw for another two weeks.

    1. Not a good sign for the Mets
      Normally all of this posturing/delays are forewarning to something more serious.
      I am sure they did imaging…..but forearm strain, if in fact that is what was reported, could be the beginning signs of UCL fraying.
      Thor was also to be back before August ..another issue for them in his contract year.
      Phillies so far have weathered the storm on pitching woes for their top guys.

  222. Texas by sending 4 Million will pay for Gibson’s and Kennedy’s salary for this year.

  223. Let’s put it this way…where would the Phils be today if Kennedy was their closer in April? If you suggested 1st place, you likely would be right. The man has not blown a lost game save all year [16 saves and 1 blown 8th inning save in a game the Rangers still won.] And where would the Phils be today if Gibson had started all those games that Anderson/Velasquez had started. If you suggest 1st place, you would likely be correct.

    And if someone on this site had suggested a Howard for Crouse deal today I believe 50% would vote yes, based on their current results. Again, I am the first one to believe the Phils might well have misused Howard and that he could well become an outstanding hurler with the Rangers and I wish he and his cordial father nothing but success.

    But the Phils are where they are now because of decisions they have made previously. Now they are trying to correct said mistakes. And I think they have. Time will tell.

  224. Looks like Orioles will be paying Galvis’s salary. See Realmuto will be batting lead off tonight.

  225. I’m not sure why people are disappointed that Gowdy got traded because Crouse is younger, already at AA, and more highly ranked. He’s already been slotted in as the Phillies #4 prospect. It’s entirely possible that once Kyle Gibson becomes a FA in 2023, Hans Crouse takes his spot in the rotation!

    1. I’d rather have Crouse than Gowdy but I don’t see why that means people can’t be disappointed that the trade was made. Besides, I thought Crouse was supposed to be our Howard replacement not the Gowdy replacement. He can’t be both.

      1. You’re forgetting the value that Gibson and Kennedy brings back. Getting Crouse back as part of the deal was unexpected and a stroke of genius.

        1. Without Crouse the deal would be pathetic. With Crouse it’s at least defensible but I still don’t like it. That’s a low bar for genius. This team needs younger, impactful players.

  226. How fitting is it that the Nats are playing the Cubs. Might be a 7 on 7 game between 2 limited rosters

  227. VV needs to get DFAd now! i don’t think I’ve ever been this angry toward a player.

    1. Gibson-
      with the track record of outcomes of pitchers the phils have acquired in the last 12 months, im a little nervous.
      only Bradley hasnt been bad, but of course he missed alot of time and i didnt notice til now he’s got 16bb to 15k on the season?

  228. You’d think that they’d come out against a team that has nobody and play with some energy. No, not the Phillies. I know they were in another deep hole from the get go but come on, ONE hit!

  229. A pathetic performance! Vinny can’t start another game! And who were me facing tonight? A team hoping to draft 1.1, or was that Vernon Law going 7 and giving up 1 lousy hit, with Elroy Face closing it out? Way to show Dombrowski gratitude for believing in them! Awful!!

  230. I missed it (fell asleep). Who was the Phillies’ Player Of The Game?
    And did he get a case of TastyCakes?

  231. Ok. I had more time to reflect on the deal and read other opinions. My initial reaction was wrong. As California Dreamin and others said, net, net this was a good trade. The addition of Crouse was a good job by DD and makes it a win. Kennedy is a good piece who will stabilize the back end of the bullpen. I wish they got one more big bullpen arm like Iglesias, as well. I am not very high on Gibson. But he is clearly an upgrade over VV.

    I guess my initial disappointment is in what they didn’t do, rather than what they did. I feel like there were truly transformational trades out there. Deals that could really change our club. I think this deal helps on the margin but seeing 5-6 other clubs really go for it made me year for a big trade. We may squeak into the playoffs. And I guess that DD will make that big move in the off-season. Oh well. Let’s see how it plays out.

  232. Unfinished business…

    Looking forward to the off season, regardless of how the team fairs from now through October, the entire infield, especially the left side, needs to be overhauled. Segura is fine for another year, his last one here, I would suppose (…but who knows if his bat ages well with him?…) Assuming the DH arrives permanently in the NL, Hoskins may still be moved for bullpen help. Bohm isn’t the future 3b. We can debate how long he stays there but if we’re honest, the front office is planning accordingly. As for SS, Didi is done. The question is what they do with him in ’22. 3b? Or try to unload him to an AL club and eat most of his salary. Stott may see the big league lights late next season. But at SS? Eh….

    Dave Dombrowski will go hard after a free agent SS.
    On a scale of 1-10, considering their will be stiff competition but a wider range in this field, I see…
    Trevor Story 5 (his stock isn’t going up)
    Carlos Correa 5 (ditto if only due to his connection to the ’17 scandal…I would steer clear)
    Corey Seager 7
    Francisco Lindor 8
    Marcus Semien 8 – my hunch is he might be a DD type of player, early 30s with Luis Garcia possibly his eventual successor.

    Outfield. Assuming Cutch goes, or even if he’s re-signed as a DH, LF is open. Mickey Mo? But CF is the key. Dombrowski needs to anchor the OF via free agency or trade. Starling Marte stands alone in the upcoming FA market. But I would love to see DD call the Dbacks GM to see what it would take to get Ketel Marte instead.

    The SP foursome now in place through ’22 are solid if not stellar. Let’s hope they remain relatively healthy as we keep our eyes on Abel, Painter and Hans for ’23 and beyond.

    The bullpen will forever be a work in process/progress. I can’t say there’s a closer on the upcoming market that screams “take me”. The Phillies organization needs to settle what their young arms are going to be…and stay the course. The Spencer Howard Experiment was an abomination, much like the Scott Kingery Swiss Army Knife fiasco.

    In any case, it’s good to at least have a credible man running the baseball operation, albeit 5 years after the job needed to be legitimately filled. As long as Dombrowski is running the show and phasing Sam Fuld in with more clout, Middleton needs to be quiet, smile and say ‘yes’ when DD proposes to spend his stupid money and convert it to smart money.

    Let’s go Phillies!!

    1. Hans….whenever I hear that name, the first thing to come to my mind is the movie Die Hard.

    2. Signing Trevor Story would mean losing a 2nd round draft choice again,
      since the Rox now plan on offering him a QO. Phillies will have competition …..since several teams, including the White Sox, Rays, and Blue Jays, had talked with Colorado about a potential deal.

      “With what we were offered, we thought the pick was better suited for us and we could have Trevor on our team for another two months … If (any deals) were close, we probably would’ve got to the finish line,” Rockies interim GM Bill Schmidt said, according to Kyle Newman of The Denver Post.
      Several teams, including the White Sox, Rays, and Blue Jays, had reportedly engaged with Colorado about a potential deal for the All-Star shortstop.

      1. Trevor Story cannot be happy that the Rockies didn’t trade him. None of these guys wants to have the QO attatched to them. Javier Baez looks like he’ll be the only (big name) FA SS not to get tagged this winter. Seager, Semien, Correa, and Story will all cost the team who signs them a second round draft pick.

        BTW … Romus, don’t know if you noticed or not: NYYs traded Janson Junk to the LAAs yesterday for Andrew Heaney.

      2. It’s possible that Story has a QO attached to him but that the penalty for signing a QO player is reduced during CBA negotiations.

        1. That’s a good point, Jim. A lot can/will change this offseason. I think there’s a good chance the LTT will go up by a good amount. May even see the trading of draft picks become a thing. I’m also hoping all players (domestic and foreign) get lumped into the draft (no more J2 periods).

          1. Hinkie…lumping both international and domestic would have to have some adjustments…..one may be the age difference for qualification
            Lain kids then would have to wait two additional years (reach 18-years old)….MLB Latin Caucus will not go along happily with that proposal,

            They could leave international kids at 16….but that will rasie other concerns for the domestic HS kids of 18.

            1. Yeah. I don’t know the specific details about how it could be phased in, but I would like to see it happen.

      3. As if DD would care about losing a draft pick. If the money is there he’ll go after who he thinks is the biggest upgrade.

  233. mark, as much as I don’t care about Middleton spending money, we can’t just have a team of FAs. That’s just not sustainable. But, I don’t see any other way. I agree that we need a CF and a SS. 2 key positions, and we need specifically good defensive players. And, in today’s world, they need to hit as well. I don’t know if Stott is that guy, but I am pretty sure not for ’22. So, I see Bohm getting another year at 3B, a lesser priced SS, maybe even Freddy, and the FA pick up be a CF. I can’t project one from the farm in the next few years.

    1. This is much more likely to happen. Again I think the Phillies will give Stott every ooportunity to take SS. So the odds of the Phillies going after a high priced SS (especially with the Phillies still paying Didi), is very slim.

      1. I just figured you meant Javy Baez (who is now Lindor’s teammate, and will be a FA after this season).

  234. Getting way ahead of myself here, but here goes the starting lineup for opening day 2022…

    Ketel Marte cf (unless JM approves Starling $$)
    Alec Bohm 1b
    Bryce Harper rf
    Marcus Semien ss
    JT Realmuto c
    Didi Gregorius 3b (until Stott arrives in August)
    Andrew McCutchen dh
    Mickey Moniak lf
    Jean Segura 2b

    Just an added idea…Harper may very well be moving out of RF by 2023/24, and Jhailyn Ortiz will hopefully assume RF. Now THAT would be a feather in this farm system’s fedora.

      1. No. As I posted above, do not pick up the option, then re-sign him for say $8M-$10M on a 1 year deal. I doubt another team exceeds that offer.