Open Discussion: Week of July 4, 2021

Weekly Discussion

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other baseball topics.

Key Dates:

  • July 11-13, 2021 – 2021 Amateur Draft
  • July 12, 2021 – DSL starts (through October 2nd)
  • July 30, 2021: Trade Deadline (4 p.m. ET)
  • Oct. 3, 2021: Regular season concludes

Transactions (last week’s transactions)

7/04/2021 – LHP Tyler Alexander assigned to Lehigh Valley
7/04/2021 – Phillies signed FA LHP Tyler Alexander to a minor league contract
7/03/2021 – Phillies sent RHP Neftali Feliz outright to Lehigh Valley
7/03/2021 – RHP Neftali Feliz elected free agency
7/03/2021 – LHP Maikel Garrido assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
7/03/2021 – LHP Anton Kuznetsov assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/02/2021 – Phillies activated SS Didi Gregorius
7/02/2021 – Phillies optioned SS Nick Maton to Lehigh Valley
7/02/2021 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated 3B Austin Listi from the TIL
7/02/2021 – SS Jose Tortolero assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
7/02/2021 – OF Jadiel Sanchez assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/02/2021 – SS Uziel Viloria assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
7/01/2021 – Phillies designated RHP Neftali Feliz for assignment
7/01/2021 – Phillies activated RHP Brandon Kintzler
7/01/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed RF Scott Kingery on the 7-day IL, right shoulder inflammation
6/30/2021 – Phillies sent RHP Chase Anderson on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
6/30/2021 – FCL Phillies placed RHP Andy Reyes on the 7-day IL
6/30/2021 – FCL Phillies placed LHP Riley Wilson on the 7-day IL
6/29/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Spencer Howard to Lehigh Valley
6/29/2021 – Phillies activated SS Jean Segura from the 10-day IL
6/29/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed 3B Austin Listi on the TIL
6/29/2021 – RHP Julian Garcia assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
6/29/2021 – LHP Zach Warren assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
6/29/2021 – RHP Andrew Brown assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
6/29/2021 – RHP Adam Leverett assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
6/29/2021 – RF Carlos De La Cruz assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
6/29/2021 – Clearwater activated RHP Gunner Mayer from the 7-day IL
6/28/2021 – Phillies purchased the contract of LHP Tyler Alexander from Sussex County
6/28/2021 – Clearwater sent SS Guarner Dipre on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
6/28/2021 – RHP Jonas De La Cruz assigned to FCL Phillies
6/28/2021 – RHP Ji Tae Lee assigned to FCL Phillies
6/28/2021 – RHP Sam Jacobsak assigned to FCL Phillies
6/28/2021 – RHP Dylan Castaneda assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – RHP Wilson Gherbaz assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – LHP Anton Kuznetsov assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – RHP Victor Lopez assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies White
6/28/2021 – LHP Chris Micheles assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – LHP Corey Phelan assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – LHP Christopher Soriano assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – LHP Riley Wilson assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – C Arturo De Freitas assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – Phillies Organization sent C Mitchell Edwards on rehab to FCL Phillies
6/28/2021 – C Oscar Gonzalez assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – SS Jamari Baylor assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – IF Juan Herrera assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – SS Kervin Pichardo assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – SS Wilson Valdez assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies White
6/28/2021 – SS Uziel Viloria assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies Red
6/28/2021 – OF Jose Cedeno assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – CF Marcus Lee Sang assigned to FCL Phillies from Phillies Organization
6/28/2021 – OF Leandro Pineda assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies White
6/28/2021 – RF Felix Reyes assigned to FCL Phillies from DSL Phillies White
6/01/2021 – LHP Riley Wilson assigned to Phillies Organization from Jersey Shore
6/01/2021 – LHP Manuel Silva assigned to Jersey Shore from Phillies Organization

287 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 4, 2021”

  1. Interesting question that is not really a Phillies/Middleton problem but I’ll ask – how much do you pay an all star player & pitcher, when they are the same, Shohei Ohtani? I’m guessing if he keeps this up, he could get a trout per year AVV. Then, how do the Angels afford both Ohtani & trout, while building a contender

      1. I did forget him. It will be interesting to see how the Angels play that scenario. They have star power but no playoff wins. That’s an issue for sure. They’ll need to be pumping out good young cheap talent.

    2. Ohtani will be a FA in 2024. If he’s still performing, he’ll get paid, at least $35M per year.

      The Angels won’t be able to contend until they start developing cheap players, especially their pitchers.

        1. Only if the DH comes in for the NL.

          But the Angels will never let him go. He has to be a cash cow for the Angels.

      2. $35M seems low if he keeps doing what he’s doing now. If you’re in his camp you figure what he would make as a pitcher on the open market and what he’d make as a hitter, then add them up, no?

        1. If you’re Ohtani’s agent, yes. But paying him more than Trout is a little crazy. And nobody has ever hit and pitched like this in the last what, 40 years, so you’re not sure if he can keep this up.

        2. 30 games a year…or whatever amount he pitches….at some point they will not let him hit in that game……so assume he DHs or plays the field in 120/130 games….so there will be pro-rated contract I assume

    1. They need to go all in before they have to make that decision. If they get 2. Ore top players on high AVV but short deals, I think that’s how they do it. Then sell off pieces for a more sustainable retool. They have to take a shot with those players. I’m sure they wouldn’t, but I’d be curious what Ohtani could command in a trade, and if that is a deal worth making for either side. Your paying for a pitcher/batter but one injury takes them both down

    2. It’s too soon to tell. The Phillies are officially at the halfway point (81 games), 3 games under .500, and they have seriously underachieved. They could have easily been 3 games over .500.

      But I think there’s reason for optimism for the second half. As poorly as the Phillies have played, they are only 4.5 games behind the Mets. The Phillies still have 6 games against the Mets.

      Really, only 3 players have overachieved: Wheeler, Segura, Suarez. Most have either played to their level or played poorly. Let’s face it, most have played poorly. I expect their performance to improve in the second half.

      The Phillies second half schedule includes the following:

      Pirates 7 games
      DBacks 7 games
      Colorado 4 games (at home)
      Orioles 3 games

      Even though the Marlins have played us tough, we still have 10 games against them.

      Of course, all this is meaningless if they implode before July 30th. I think if the Phillies keep it close, you’ll see some minor adjustments.

  3. I really hope this team isn’t trading off significant assets for help on the ML team. If we could send a few mid-level prospects for one more reliable reliever, then fine, but they’re not good enough at the major league level to warrant going “all-in”. I’d prefer they sell Nola, Segura, McCutchen, or whoever than go all-in. Significant re-tooling needed in the offseason.

    Also, how do people feel about our minor leagues overall? I’m encouraged by the likes of Ortiz, Stott, Brito, and a few lower level pitchers (Abel included). Do we feel after a half season of minor leagues that our farm looks better, worse, or about the same?

    1. I’d have a hard time believing it’s not the worst farm in baseball. After Stott and Abel there’s just not much there.

      A lot of Brito’s improvement is tied to his BA which is up largely because of a much higher BABIP. Maybe that’s due to added strength or better contact but it makes me skeptical that he’s turned a corner. Ortiz too: perform in Reading with good scouting reports and I’ll start to believe.

      There are a couple pitchers who I’m intrigued by in Pipkin and Santos but I’m waiting to see more recent reports on their stuff before I buy in.

      1. I think we will see LHP Miller the second half of the season and he will remind everyone why he won the Instruct Pitching Award last fall…

    2. I think the farm has gotten better, but if you’re looking for a jump in rankings due to the emergence of elite prospects, that won’t happen.

      I think there are some players who have improved to the point where they could contribute to the Philies in the future. What that could be is up to them. It’s better than them being “filler” players.

      The jury is stll out on Spencer Howard. Vierling has surprised some people.
      Maton/Williams/Falter have improved to the point where you can see them as possible starter level players. Last season, those 3 players were likely not on the Phillies’ radar.

      So yes, I do think the farm has improved.

  4. I agree with everyone who says that the Phillies are likely to just add a few bullpen pieces and maybe a veteran position player and try to win the NL East. I don’t think that strategy will work, but i agree that that is likely what they will do. But IMO, that is not what they should do. The Phillies have not had a more valuable trade asset in my lifetime than Zach Wheeler is right now. He is the perfect combination of elite stuff, elite production, peak age. Good contract. He is a better trade asset than Cole Hamels was. If they traded Zach, they could set themselves up for a very good and near term re-build. Not a 5 year tear down. A re-set for 2022/23.

    They happen to match up perfectly with the Rays, whose system is stacked with elite prospects who are near MLB ready. The Padres and Toronto also have high end, near MLB ready prospects and would also LOVE Wheeler.

    I understand how valuable Wheeler is to our team. But IMO this team is deeply flawed. We have to replace: at least 1 OF (or 2 if you don’t buy into Odubel), a 3rd baseman (slide Bohm to first), and a shortstop (Didi’s defensive metrics are terrible). And of course, completely remake the bullpen. For one season we can slide Didi to 3rd. Stott is our next shortstop but betting on him is a big gamble for a team with championship aspirations.

    I think the real question is what are we trying to achieve. I am in the championship or bust group. I could care less if we squeak into the playoffs and lose in the first round, unless we do that with a young team. If we have to sell good prospects for rentals just to squeak in, that is a bad outcome imo.

    1. Or, if they traded Zack, they could end up with what the Phillies got for Cole Hamels when they needed assets- little more than a handful of magic beans (seriously, in terms of long term effect, that trade was about as worthless as it could haven possibly been, the only lingering effect on today’s club is a secondary asset – Alfaro – who helped get them Realmuto – every other player has vanished. Or what they got when they traded Curt Schilling – more beans. The problem with the Phillies historically – and we have no evidence that this has changed – is that they cannot evaluate talent. Until we have evidence that this has changed, a trade of an elite player for numerous prospects is more likely to be fool’s gold than a move that turns the franchise around.

      1. If they can’t evaluate talent then no strategy works. Every plan relies upon their ability to evaluate talent.

        1. I agree Phillies can’t evaluate talent. Either that or they can’t develop talent. Or maybe both.

          Randolph, Moniak, Hasley were all considered 1st round talents in the mock drafts. It is not like the Phillies reached. Yet, at this point it looks like not one of them will be a everyday starter. Makes me wonder if it is the talent or those responsible for developing the talent.

          1. No team is going to hit on every first round pick. In fact, if you can get 1 starter level player per draft, you’re doing your job. Obviously, missing on Moniak hurts, but it happens. And the Phillies drafted Nola in the first round in 2014, and he’s given us 23 WAR. Do you know how many teams would love to be in our position, complaining about missing 1st round picks but having Nola on the roster? At least half the teams would trade for that right now easy.

            1. 1. Nola was selected by Rubén Amaro, Jr. and Marti Wolever. People’s issues are with the draft picks during the rebuild which were handled by Johnny Almaraz and Klentak

              2. Your stats about missing on first round picks ignores a very, very important point…The phillies drafted in the top 10 four years in a row under JA and MK. Statistically, teams have a much higher hit rate on top 10 picks. WAR for top 10 picks is much higher than later first round picks.

              So giving JA and MK a pass because of Nola doesn’t seem like a sound argument imo. They pooped the bed big time.

            2. @v1, Ive previously posted in the past about teams blowing top 10 picks in consecuitve years. It has happened before, at a much higher rate than you would imagine.

  5. The Phillies always seem to want to plug holes in a dike. Year after year or even month after month. One year (or month) it is a LHRP. Then a RHRP. Then a utility player. Then a fifth starter. Always in a desperate attempt to sneak into a wildcard. The Phillies not only live season to season but month to month. Sometimes just in the moment.

    The Phillies never seem to have a coherent long-term plan to make their organization great. Always scrambling around to add at the fringes. Year after year. The Phillies need to start from the bottom up, not the top down. And the way you do that in baseball is scouting and the farm system. That is what i am interested in. Not trading young, minor league assets in yet another desperate yearly attempt to make the playoffs.

    1. Perfectly said. A great explanation of the point I am trying to make. Weakening an already weak farm system for band aides to squeak into the playoffs and lose in the first round only keeps us on this mediocrity merry-go-round.

  7. V1. – who would you want from the Rays for Wheeler? I love watching him pitch and would hate to see him go, but agree with the right return it would be best in the long run. However, a package like we got for Hamels didn’t help much…..

    1. Good question: dream package would be:
      – 1 of either Brujan or Edwards
      – Baz
      – Wilcox
      – low level, high upside prospect.

      Brujan/Edwards would be our top prospect. Baz would be our #2 prospect. Abel would slide to 3rd. Wilcox is either our 4th or 5th prospect (Stott is other).

      1. That would be a fair offer, but I don’t think the Rays are going to gut their system like that. That’s not their MO.

      2. How much money needs to go back to the Rays to make that deal?

        Agree Wheeler likely nets us the best prospect but I don’t know the details of his contract or whether there is some type of limited no trade etc…

        1. When it comes to the Rays and money…well we know their philosophy..
          So they will need a helping hand when it comes to cash outlay..
          Wheeler’s contract actually is not that bad compared to other ‘aces’.

          https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/philadelphia-phillies/zack-wheeler-11933/

          …approx $80M left thru 2024….counting the $8/9M left if he were to be moved in July of this season vs the off-season.
          I do not see any limiting contract notes, looks to be very straight forward.

          As for money credited to the Rays…the more they are absolved from paying, the more return value should be coming back to the Phillies in prospect value.
          IMO…..I’d think they would want at least 40% of the total remaining value.

    2. Prospects are no sure thing, even from the Rays. Remember Brent Honeywell? You don’t? He was in the 2017 Futures game, he was can’t miss, he was in the top 50 for 3 years, and then he got hurt. He hasn’t been the same since.

      Giving up one of the top pitchers in all of baseball and hoping that at least 1 prospect will pan out and be elite, that will be tough.

      The odds of the Phillies getting even close to equal value for 3.5 years of Wheeler is slim.

      1. Wheeler was a prospect when he was traded to the Mets. Every good MLB player was a prospect. We focus on the misses but seem to ignore the hits. The reason you get several prospects is because of the risk.

        1. I understand the risk with prospects. Most of them fail. I’m ok with that, but some people seem to think that the Phillies are the only ones trading for prospects who inevitably fail.

          If the Phillies trade Wheeler to the Rays for what you want, I’m ok with that. And if all those prospects don’t pan out, I wouldn’t like it, but that’s a possibilty. A big possbility. I’m not going to be blaming the Phillies because they traded for the wrong guys.

            1. On the hamels return, Boston was the best trade partner but something was off to not get the deal done, likely the ask. They dragged trading out over 3 trade deadline if I’m remembering correctly. Wheeler would demand a crazy return IMO. If not him, dangle Nola. If Middleton is really going to go over the payroll.. they sell players off to drop payroll, trade. efflin & VV. Dip back into the SP market, the
              Top 3 plus Howard should cover that are. My main plan is restock the farm , rebuy the talent we sell off, for a more effective retool. It shouldn’t all be done in 1 offseason. That’s a trade deadline, and off-season, and another trade deadline. It’s the best way to get out of the 5 games below or above .500 mediocrity

  8. Final week before the all star break. Phillies get the Cubs for four and the Sox for three. I say they go 3-4. What about you?

    1. I love your optimism. We took the series from the Padres so let’s play the games.

  9. The Phillies front office has been historically poor on all fronts with the exception of fan friendliness. Most of us got excited when Middleton was rumored to be the imminent controlling partner. Things would of course be different – meaning better(?) – after the Giles/Monty regime during which they struck lightning twice with a bunch of aging veterans (’83) and a bunch of talented misfits (’93) were one and done NL champs. Then Pat Gillick rode into town and pushed the right buttons to stay competitive for a few years. Then he bowed out…and back to blindly grasping for relevance. Middleton talked the talk…but the on the field product is treading water still. Why? Because native executives can’t evaluate talent evaluators, or they simply don’t value them. Silver lining…Dombrowski is from outta town like Gillick. Let’s see what he gets us…

    1. Wow, shoulder issues are never a good thing for a pitcher. You just don’t know how it’s going to go.

  11. I don’t know why Howard isn’t brought back and put in the bullpen with his “electric ” stuff. Between him, Suarez and Falter we begin to remake the bullpen for the second half. Trade for one of the Twins 3 relievers who have been effective….Duffey or Robles or Rogers. That shouldn’t require a top prospect. The Tigers also have some bullpen depth and we might be able to make a deal with them. We can’t keep trotting out the same arms that have let us down.
    As for Howard, stretch him out for a starters job next spring….we need his help now in the bullpen. Both Suarez and Falter probably have aspirations to start but the Phillies have asked them to help in the bullpen now. Same should go for Howard.

    1. Howard is just fine where he is at, he needs this year at AAA to work things out! I don’t want to see him til next spring. I’m sick of put him in the pen, no, he’s a starter, stretch him out, well maybe he could be an opener, no, his stuff is too good, he’s a closer………his head is spinning probably. Isn’t it enough we screwed Kingery up? See you in the spring, Spencer. We don’t need you yet, because we aren’t going anywhere with, or without you. whew!

      1. Kingery is screwed up because he fiddled around with his swing and now can’t hit….not because he was asked to play multiple positions.
        As per Howard, you are sick of “put him in the pen ” and I am sick of our current bullpen. I am not asking Howard to be a opener or starter…just to help a glaring weakness on this team. You may be right about the team going nowhere but I haven’t given up on this season yet so I am looking for some answers.

        1. You need to read the article by Matt Breen, The Philadelphia Inquirer, published June 26, 2021 on Scott Kingery. I think he (Scott) feels differently than you do. I’m sick of the pen too, but Spencer isn’t the answer.

      2. Your so wrong its scary, Howard job is to help the club first, He can be in the bullpen to help us now, He has major league stuff, stretching him out so he can be a starter is no guarantee he becomes that person, I cant take Neris, Alverado, and the rest of that bullpen, if Howard can help us he should be in the bullpen, This is a team sport,

        1. rocco…bingo, agree….put Howard just not in the pen but the effing closer….Joe needs to think outside the box, a bold move ,light a fire under these guys…..it is a move that could turn a season around
          Howard has the maturity to handle the pressure….at least for one inning.
          Plus gets him ready mentally for next season to be a force in the rotation after being stretched in the off-season.

  12. Kingery is not in the mlb because he cannot hit elite fastballs and every pitcher knows that.

    1. That and he swings at pitches out of the zone. Imo pitch selection was Kingery’s downfall. You can get away with a bad approach in the minors. But at the MLB level the pitchers are too good.

      The swing change stuff is overblown. Every MLB player is constantly tinkering with their swing. If they try something new and it doesn’t work they change it in the off-season. Harper is constantly changing his swing. So is Rhys. Also the utility vs second base is also overblown. These guys are elite athletes. They can play wherever you put them. And they don’t bring their defense into the box with them. Neither of those are the reason Kingery failed.

      He failed because of pitch selection and inability to hit good fastballs.

      1. I can’t believe we’re talking about Kingery. That ship has sailed meaning mistakes and failures of prior regimes.

        The only thing that matters is this regime and what their intentions are to improve the club going forward. Bottom to Top. And even that has to be tied to Middleton and the Bucks.

        Which is the one constant since what July 2015…

  13. They’ve (rightfully) taken a ton of abuse … but … let’s hear it for the job the Phillies development staff has done with Connor Brogdon, Bailey Falter, and Ranger Danger.

    I also agree with Hal, rocco, and Romus. Spencer Howard better serves this franchise as a late inning BP option for 2021. He has five starts this season. During innings one and two in those starts, opposing batters are slashing just .090/.189/.121. If Howard performs like that in the seventh, eighth, or ninth innings, he could help the club win a few games, and save Dave Dombrowski a couple of prospects (he’ll have to surrender in a trade for a reliever). Howard has all spring 2022 to be stretched out for another run at a rotation spot.

    1. Haven’t checked the numbers in a while but I believe Howard’s numbers as a RP are terrible. So even though he runs out of gas the preparation he gets as a starter might be a big part of his early success in games.

      At this point he’s been yanked around so much, changing his role again risks setting him back farther. Let him be in AAA for awhile.

  14. Much has been made about the Phillies’ favorable schedule for the remainder of the season. They’re also catching the Cubbies at just the right time. They *should* win 3 of 4. Then to Fenway where they just can’t lay an egg, even should they lose 2 of 3. Make it look competitive. But favorable schedule or not, a team playing bad baseball will lose to the worst of teams. At a minimum, Dombrowski must acquire a back of the bullpen arm who can close, even if he’s not a “closer”. A real closer would cost a real prospect. I wince at the thought. And DD should acquire another bat to anchor the OF, preferably a CF. I doubt any veterans get moved with the exception of Velasquez. Cutch and Segura will get moved if the Phillies slide out of range of the post season. I think Hoskins goes this off season, regardless of the season’s outcome.

    1. Cutch’s value is rising with his upswing at the plate.
      Like I mentioned earlier….Gabe, who likes that veteran presence late in the season, may want to take a chance with him down the stretch trying to fend off the Dodgers and Padres. Plus the Phllies could pick up the remaining $8M + 3M buyout on his contract and get a very decent prospect in return…

      1. Yes, Romus…Cutch is a glue guy, useful to a contender in a platoon/pinch hitter role down the stretch. He’d be perfect here (sans the big money) if the Phillies had a younger, reliable LF in place.

        1. Cutch is hitting well but at this point, he’s a DH. His range is not great.

          I would bring him back at $5M but I don’t think that will get it done. Somebody else is going to offer him more money and likely more playing time than the Phillies can give him.

        2. If they wanted to bring him back….probably take a 2 year deal like Didi’s….and I would guess somewhere between $10/12M AAV.

    2. Good to decent relievers at the trading deadline are going to command Top-30 prospects in return…Teams are always asking for good young up and coming pitchers who are at HiA or AA.. That narrows the field down considerably…

  15. I know some people think that the Blue Jays would make good trading partners with the Phillies so I talked to my buddy, a Blue Jays fan, about the state of his team. As much as he likes the offense, the pitching is a train wreck. The bullpen is a disaster (heard this one before) because of injuries and ineffectiveness. He’s happy that the Blue Jays were proactive in trading for a reliever from the Marlins because he feels that there’s going to be a bidding war for quality relievers and he doesn’t want the Blue Jays to overpay. Not only that, he doesn’t think the starting pitching will hold up down the stretch and definitely not in the playoffs. His rotation doesn’t scare anybody. Because of this, he doesn’t think it’s the time for the Blue Jays to be aggressive and go for it this year.

  16. There are reports that the Mets don’t want to give up any of their top prospects and they don’t want to take on salary that will get them over the luxury tax threshold. According to Cots, the Mets are 3rd in team payroll (the Phillies are 4th).

    1. If Gowdy becomes something, even a major league #3 or #4 SP, that would be quite a pleasant turn of events. His profile and projection at the time of his selection was very promising. I believe “pitchability” was the descriptive word. Continued health and progress to the lad!

      1. Gowdy…if he can stay healthy, has a chance to get to the show and become a contributor in the rotation…..he just needs a steady stream of development without any injury setbacks.
        I have to assume his FB velo has plateau now around the mid-90s

    2. This is REALLY promising:

  19. Phillies will get Arrieta probably tomorrow and Pivetta over the weekend. Should be interesting.

    Need a late innings reliever? Brandon Workman is available for sure. It would give the Sox a chance to fleece the same team two years in a row.

    1. raef – don’t know but the Chicago announcers were joking that the Phillies were on “the historical stadium road trip.”

  21. Watching Chaim Bloom on a Boston station. This guy really has a plan. Can’t believe that Hinkie and a few others on this site wanted Klentek over him. This guy really knows his stuff.

  22. Kidding, of course about the guys not wanting him. Bloom says he never, ever wants the number 4 pick again.

    1. LOL!
      Seriously … can you imagine how much better this team would be if MacPhail had hired Bloom instead of Klentak. That, quietly, goes down as one of the worst decisions in the history of the Phillies organization.
      We probably would have a team (and farm system) like the Rays, or Braves, or Padres, or White Sox, or Blue Jays have right now.

      1. This is one of the reasons that, ultimately, Middleton is most to blame for the current team’s problems. He and his crew have been horrible at hiring executives. We will see how this round goes. DD is the most important guy now but for the long term success of the club, Sam Fuld needs to be excellent. If he isn’t, we will continue our long trek through mediocrity.

    1. Jake is a good guy, but watching him implode like that is sad to watch. He’s finished, he needs to retire. Before this game, his WAR for this season is -1.4!

  25. Don’t look now but Phils acquired a 30 year old AAA catcher with mlb experience. Does this mean he might be the 3rd string catcher ? and Marchan is used in a trade ? Stay tuned as they say….

    1. Assuming the Phillies are buying (regardless of what some of us here think), a closer on an out of contention team (Pirates? Angels?) may be the target. Marchan makes sense in a package. Richard Rodriguez would probably come cheaper than Raisel Iglesias in prospect cost. Marchan along with Cristopher Sanchez, Jhailyn Ortiz and Kendall Simmons are top 30 prospects who might get one. Nick Maton and/or Matt Vierling are 40-man players who could be mixed in as well.

      1. Richard Rodriguez isn’t a FA until 2024. He’ll definitely cost more than Iglesias, who would be a rental. A lot of teams are sniffing around the Pirates closer, including the Blue Jays and the Braves.

        1. IMO … Richard Rodriguez is a nice player on a bad team. I just don’t see his stuff translating to a shutdown closer on a playoff club. I just don’t see him really moving the needle here.

    2. Or maybe just a plan to stop yo-yo-ing Marchan between MLB and Lehigh Valley so that he can develop his potential as a starting catcher.

      1. Maybe…but 3 weeks before the trade deadline? At a position where the Phillies have most depth?

        1. Agree…..odd time to acquire a vet catcher, unless knapp is hurt again….and Marchan does have value, and like you say catching is deep in the system…there is Duran and now O’Hoppe is starting to power the ball at Jersey Shore, with Gutierrez still hitting, who is one rung lower than O’Hoppe.

          1. Don’t see them trading Marchan … especially for anyone on an expiring contract. Logan O’Hoppe or Abrahan Gutierrez or Andrick Nava are more likely to be dealt. They each hold some value.

            1. Actually, if I’m a team with an available closer and looking for catching, I would demand TWO of them from the Phillies. So, if not Marchan, then O’Hoppe plus say, Nava…with the odds that one pans out as a major league player.

          2. Marchan should be worth more than some dreck teams closer…

            As much as I have enjoyed this little run we are on I also feared it. Not sure how DD evaluates if this is his real team or if there are some guys stepping up to ensure they don’t get sent out in the middle of a season.

            Was listening to Dan O’Dowd last night he said the Cubs best assets in order were Kimbrel, Bryant, Hendricks, Contreras, Pederson left Baez off purposely. Says he’d return better value from the QO

            Kimbrel is under team control (option) through 2022 at $16 mil.

            Hendricks sures up any rotation and is under control for close to $14 mil AAV or $44 mil.

            And then there is Bryant a rental who is having a solid season can play both LF and 3B: Braves and Mets will surely be making calls on him.

            1. I don’t know how many here would do it, but Dombrowski might offer Velasquez, Ortiz, Sanchez, Morales, and 2 catching prospects for Kimbrel (under contract thru ’22) and Bryant, who walks this winter.

            2. @mark, this offer is really not great for the Cubs. Why would they take VV, who’s a FA himself? 1.5 years of Kimbrel will absolutely net you a top 100 prospect which you have not offered. Or at least something serious. This is not a serious offer.

              A serious offer for Kimbrel is Stott and Johan Rojas. You have to give talent to get talent.

            4. I think the Cubs will be moving Kimbrel and Bryant but keeping Hendricks. The Cubs, I’m sure, are looking to a re-boot rather than a rebuild.

              As for the cost of getting Bryant and Kimbrel in the same trade – it would be immense. It would probably costs something like Mick Abel, two of our best catching prospects, Bailey Falter and Daniel Brito or Johan Rojas. It would leave the farm system nearly barren.

              The cost of Kimbrel alone would be pretty steep – probably like a couple of catching prospects, Ortiz and Brito or Falter.

            5. Guru, my bad on VV…forgot he was a free agent, thought he was still arb eligible. Anyway, point well taken. I don’t give up Stott or Abel, but anyone else, maybe.

            6. If Bryant is traded….the QO alternative is negated for the gaining team from that trade. The Cubs are the only team afforded the opportunity of offering Bryant a QO.

            7. My question is, in today’s climate and the volatility of pen pieces, is ANY relief pitcher really worth that much?

            8. As a two month rental Bryant’s final selling price will not be high…hope the Cubs do not expect to get a king’s ransm for him….they are lucky they get one premium prospect., and maybe a low-A prospect..

            9. Romus, didn’t know that, thanks. In which case, Bryant without the QO lowers his trade value a bit, I would think. But then he’s a Boras-Bryce guy which might give Dombrowski an edge in this winter’s bidding? Or do I overthink it?

            10. @mark, the Phillies can’t afford to sign Bryant to a mega deal. And they have other issues to contend with anyways.

            11. Have to agree….Phillies will have other fish to fry before trying to get Bryant on a LTC @ $22/24M AAV starting next year..

            12. My point about mentioning the Cubs was that they are obvious sellers and they have obvious impact players that could greatly effect the outcome of what DD might be trying to do.

              Or in other words the teams we are contending with to win the division (because the East is very unlikely to produce a WC) will also be making moves.

              and that’s not to say there aren’t several other teams who would step up to the plate for a Kimbrel, Bryant or Hendricks.

  26. They gave up 10 runs. They need to get that bullpen fixed, 1st step in the retool. Hopefully sir Anthony and possibly Howard can have success in the second half for them

    1. Where has Brogdon been. I know he had a rocky start but I was hoping he’d settle down and establish himself.

    2. Falter had a difficult outing.
      Wind was blowing out and anything up in the air….look out.

      1. I like Falter he’s young doesn’t cost much but none of his pitches are dynamic in any form…

        1. Yeah…that seems to be the gist for Falter….Eric Longenhagen’s write-up six months ago is pretty telling about Falter’s projection.

          “During 2020 instructs, he was not only healthy but throwing harder, sitting 90-94 throughout camp and 93-95 at his best. That extra velo is made tougher to hit because Falter is pretty funky and deceptive. His glove raise is like a magician’s misdirection and he takes a gargantuan stride home, generating seven feet, three inches of extension. The secondaries are not dominant — you’ll see some plus changeups, but both breaking balls closer to average — but I don’t know how they’ll play now that they’re paired with a harder fastball. There’s a breakout opportunity here, and if not, it’s nice to know Falter is healthy and will be a viable backend option soon because of his ability to throw strikes. (Fall Instructional League)”

            1. rocco……don’t you think he has more upside than say, a Cole Irvin or maybe close to a Randy Wolf at the same age?
              As a lefty, with unique attributes, ie the advantages of his delivery, also his control, which for many lefties is a problem….he should be a serviceable back of the rotation starter.

        2. I disagree. Due to his extension, Falter’s fastball looks to the hitter to be between 94-96 and it moves well up in the zone. Falter has a lot of upside in my view. I think he easily has the potential to be a solid mid-rotation starter.

          1. Agreed. Sounds very much like Happ (although deceptive for different reasons). I think it would be a mistake to trade him. I’d give him a look in the rotation if (when) Moore struggles. I think in the near term he could be the cost controlled back end starter this team needs.

            1. That’s exactly right. If the team wants to continue to evolve and improve, you need solid, cheap high contributors like Falter. Those players are what the really good teams have in abundance. Bad teams trade them away and pay big dollars for 2-3 WAR players – you don’t win championships doing it like that.

  27. Maybe the Phillies shouldn’t buy much at all? Maybe they should trade away a ML piece and a middling prospect for a solid bullpen arm? I think their schedule could help them get into the playoffs even if they stood pat. The Phillies have played 42 games against greater than .500 teams… they’re 19-23. The Nationals have played the second most at 36, then the Braves at 33. The Mets have played a grand total of 16 games against greater than .500 teams. They’re 7-9. This division isn’t that good, and the Mets are frauds with a bloated payroll.

    Please god don’t sell the farm. Need to reconfigure the whole thing in the offseason.

  29. Romus i meant at worst i think he is what i stated, But could be a 4 or 5th starter,

      1. Yeah I didn’t mean to suggest we should give up on Falter. Again I am on the side that we should not really be buyers

        This little burst of energy they are having is cute and all but I’m not buying it. This same basic team folded down the stretch two seasons in a row and until they show me something different…

        well

        1. DMAR…..agree.
          Last three years:
          Sep-2018…..8-20
          Sep-2019-…12-16
          Sep-2020…..13-17
          Total………….33-53
          They do seem to improve a few games each year…so maybe .500 this Sep.

  30. Having a starter learn to be a reliever is a challenge, short term turnaround, arm care but also mentally. Warming up for game one night and not being used then asked to answer the bell the next night not knowing how your body reacts is probably a learning e experience. I guess it’s part of the game and you learn from and prepare

  31. Jacob deGrom is skipping the All-star game to relax, so let’s hope that Wheeler gets the start.

  32. Cam Bedrosian has signed a minor-league deal and will report to Triple A Lehigh Valley
    Phillies making their move to shore up the BP

  33. Tonight’s game with wheeler pitching was controlled by baseball gods. Phils a very small betting favorite with their ace going against a weekday college starter. Bookies looking to cleanup tonight.

    1. Patso, A sweep on the road is really hard, i dont care who is pitching the last game, The percentage are in favor of the home team,

    1. 5 innings – 1 hit. Sounds good
      4 walks in those 5 innings though. That’s not going fly at the MLB level. That said, he also had 6 strikeouts.

      If has 2 more solid outings in a row, does he get the call? What a story if so.

      Don’t look now, its early … but Howard and Abel may have to look over their shoulder for Appel & Gowdy. Again it’s early, but it would be a nice sign if all 4 can make a push for the big club. Obviously unlikely, but we are all pulling for them.

      1. There is no way I would rush Appel to the big leagues. First, the walks didn’t kill him at AAA, but they would definitely kill him in the majors. He needs to work on that. Second, and this is huge, Appel’s biggest problem has been self-confidence. I’d like him to have success in AAA for a full month before I even began thinking about promoting him. And I’d be hesitant to promote him if there’s no starting role for him. He’s not a guy I would train to start and then throw into the bullpen – I don’t think he would adjust well to that.

        1. I can see them rushing Appel, he is house money at this point. If he has 4 more good starts, I say he bumps the 5th starter.

          1. They don’t need him there just to be there and take up space, they need him there to be effective. If you rush him and he stinks, there’s no upside to that. I look at it the other way around. Since you’re not relying on him at all, you have the luxury of waiting until he can really help you – which actually might happen.

      2. Have you seen Appel’s numbers? At Lehigh, his ERA improved to 2.70 but his walk rate skyrocketed to 10.8. Obviously SSS, but his walk rate at Reading was 5.5 which is pretty high already. He would get crushed in the bigs with a walk rate like that. As an example, VV’s career walk rate is 3.7.

        I’m rooting for Gowdy, but he’s already 23 because he missed so much time due to injuries. He’s not really young for high A. He still has a long way to go.

        1. Gowdy….I have seen other teams force feed/push their prospects when they have fallen age -wise behind their level due to injuries in the past and extended time missed in development..
          Of course, doesn’t always work out…Roman Q. for example…got him up in Sep in his age23 season…then gets hurt again the following season
          But teams will do that if the player has the maturity and skills.
          Maybe the Phillies will do that with Gowdy…get him in Reading in the second half. this year.

  35. Buy? Sell? How about doing nothing?

    Being that Dombrowski is running the show, I certainly expect the Phillies to do something but this division is as weak as it’s been in quite some time. Injuries and poor performance have impacted almost every team in MLB. I doubt there’ll be any big splash blockbusters this go around. I say DD picks up moderate bullpen help to mitigate the propensity for blown saves, which in and of itself gains us a few games in the standings.

    CF needs some stability, even if it’s a platoon. Odubel has leveled off to his true self, although he may have another hot streak in him before season’s end.

    So, here’s to catching lightning in a bottle heading down the stretch…and Cam Bedrosian winning comeback player of the year award🤣

    1. It’s crazy, but there’s an evolving book on Odubel. Throw him high fastballs. He can’t lay off that pitch and when he puts it in play, it’s usually a shallow popup to the OF. He needs to adjust.

    1. The Phillies signed TWELVE non-drafted free agents last summer. Author of the article overlooked

      – Braden Zarbniskey, a 5th year senior, 2-way player out of WV who was a medical redshirt in 2019. He started 2021 in JS and was promoted to REA where he has a 3-1 record, 3.86 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, 4 saves, and 4 walks/24 K in 23.1 IP.

      – Corey Phelan, a 2020 HS graduate out of Harborfields HS, NY. LHP, max $20K contract, scouted by Sal Agostinelli, another Long Island product (Fanti, Young, Brown, and O’Hoppe). The year before signing his FB velo rose from the low 80s to high 80s, touching 90 in his workout for the Phillies. He was committed to Flagler College. Assigned to FCL Phillies. Has yet to make pro debut. I provided the following write-up after a 4/23 performance against the Tigers.

      “LHP Corey Phelan was signed as a free agent after the 2020 draft. I concluded that he was too advanced for rookie ball after his two innings. I thought I was watching a JUCO pitcher dominate lesser batters. I am flabbergasted to say that he is an 18-year-old signed out of high school in 2020. He also has an advanced build for his age. And, he attacks the strike zone deftly – 2 innings pitched, 23 pitches, 15 strikes, 6 up, 6 down, 3 K (all swinging).”

      1. That’s good to know on the two they missed in that article.
        Phelan looks to be someone to keep an eye on for the future.
        matt Klentak did a lot of things wrong in his tenure as the GM…but maybe signing all these UDFAs, pitching especially, last summer may turn out to be a bright spot for him.

        1. Carlton….Hamels….Lee…..

          Our lifetime (’60s thru present day) leaves us with but a few dominant lefties….and only one home grown. How nice it would be to see a couple more rise up sooner than later.

          1. Maybe Erik Miller will be a good pitcher.
            At first, I thought Randy Wolf, after his first few years, could be the guy, but no such luck….same as Don Carman and Randy Lerch.

            1. I like Miller a lot, Romus….a lefty with velo. 2023 could be a potentially huge year for prospect ETAs…Rojas, Garcia, Abel and Miller.

            2. I think the Phillies a time or two were linked with Jordan Wicks. He was on MLBN last night doing an interview with Dan Plesac.

              If he’s there I think he’s my guy. High floor high ceiling kid IMO.

            3. DMAR……Wicks could be in the rotation in 2nd half 2022 if things work out with him, as they did with Nola in 2015..

  37. RoccoMoffo I did not expect sweep. I was mearly stating that people on radio were assuming this game was lock with pitching matchup. Once I saw betting line I told one of my sons it was a lock that Phils would lose last night. My guess is the public overwhelmingly betting Phils cause it looked like easy win

    1. Alzolay tonight for the Cubs….Phillies get up for the better pitchers and seem to lay down on the back end of the rotation guys.
      Assume money will again be on the Phillies….expect another let-down.

  38. I don’t recall seeing it mentioned before (I may have missed it), but Stott is our lone representative for the Futures game. I wish Abel made it as I would have loved to see him throw. Will be fun to watch Stott compete.

  39. New sports Capital in the US…Tampa.
    Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, World Series participants……glad they have no basketball team.
    When will it be Philly’s turn!
    Like to see Stamkos throw the Stanley Cup in the flotilla parade.

  40. Phillies needed 3 of 4 from cubs after taking the initial 2 games. It’s 5-0, mid game, will see how it ends, but this is why I say sell, I’m not fooled.

  41. Anybody wanna bet Trevor Bauer serves far less time than Odubel Herrera did?

    1. Yeah, Buddy. I’m waiting to see what happens with that.
      To be honest … just about every guy ever involved in a domestic abuse incident has received a lesser punishment than Odubel. Hell … Aroldis Chapman fired a hand gun (multiple times) during his incident, and even he got less time than Odubel.

    2. It’s likely. I was reading about Bauer’s case, and I’d say he has a case but there is some gray area in both their claims. For the female, if she felt it was abuse, not really sure why you’d go back a second time & through text messages suggest you want it to go to the next level on the 3rd meeting. It’s weird stuff they are both into, and he may have crossed the line, but it’s sounds like it was both their thing. It’s between them. I’m getting the gold digger vibe.
      Herrera has faced the most of what Ive seen, but I never really heard the details. From what I remember, I believe their was a mental/power abuse going on. I’d have to believe something happened that may not have leaked out to the public, because his punishment is an outlier at this point.

      1. You remember incorrectly about Herrera. There may have (or maybe there still is) mental/power abuse, but what got him caught was visible hand prints on his girlfriend’s neck.

        Regardless of what you like in the bedroom, that is going WAY too far. It takes ridiculous amounts of force to leave a mark, and doing so on the neck means you put that person’s life in danger.

        1. would also add that Odubel had bad timing because MLB was already taking heat from their handling of previous issues just as the “me-too” movement was gaining steam.

          Also, his MLB punishment was significant (as it should be) but it was the Phillies decision to continue his banishment long afterwards.

  43. Northeastern College baseball team was doing the homer hat thing with same type of hat months before Phillies started this. When I read stories about it origins with Phils that is never mentioned. What is wrong with saying ur copying a college program. Northeastern did play at UD mid spring.

      1. He has 119 strikeouts in 92 innings his era is 3,70 gives up a hit per inning, In college where he might face one potential drafted player per team, imo not dominate numbers for a 13 th pick

  45. Cubs GM Hoyer is waving the white towel in in the NL Central…Seems like announcing your season is over reduces the trade leverage but the Phillies should see what the asking price will be for some of the more prominent FA’s and those players who would help us this season…

    1. Baez, Bryant and Rizzo are all FA’s at season’s end. I’d be curious to see what Hoyer asks for 2 months of any one of them. Rizzo’s glove alone makes me salivate when I think of our own Dr Strangeglove at 1b now. Plus Rizzo’s bat to ball skills would be a refreshing addition to this lineup, if only for 2 months.

      1. Last few years WAR:

        2020: Hoskins: 1.0
        Rizzo: 1.2

        2021: Hoskins: 0.9
        Rizzo: 1.1

        Rizzo is marginally better than Hoskins, is 3 years older, and currently makes $12 million more per year. Trading for Rizzo doesn’t make any sense, in my opinion.

        2. My point isn’t that he’s that much better than Hoskins except for defense, contact skill and consistency. I’m not eager to trade for him but only intrigued by what it might cost to acquire him as a rental. The roster clearly has more urgent needs.

          1. Yeah, well, if the team didn’t have several more pressing needs, if the team had more in salary tax space and there was a DH in the National Leauge, it might be interesting . . . but that’s a lot of “if”s

    2. This is exactly what the Cubs wanted to accelerate their rebuild. But the Cubs are not going to give those players away. They won’t get a top 100 prospect because they are rentals, but they can get like a decent player from low or high A. Something like Logan O’Hoppe or Kendall Simmons. Maybe even Luis Garcia.

      1. Of al the Cubs…Baez intrigues…especially his defense at short, where it all goes thru.
        Didi just is not the same defensive player he use to be.
        But Hoyer will want more than the Phillies really have to give up or want to give up I assume.

  46. Hinkie i was looking at the prospect, i was wondering, in your opinion would Padres part with Abrams in a package for Wheeler,

  47. Geez folks, assuming the Phillies are not going to do a rebuild, there’s no way you get rid of Wheeler, Harper (it’s crazy to say, but he’s actually underrated at this point – give me a guy with a .900 OPS any day of the week – I’ll take that!), or Realmuto. The point is to acquire and retain players like that, not trade them away! The only exception would be if you had a cheaper, nearly-as-good, player in the farm system for that slot. Clearly, they don’t for any of these guys.

    1. But…if they open the bidding between the Dodger and Padres…an exclusive bid only…then you get all those players/prospects.
      Between Friedman and Preller….who ante ups the best offer.

    2. Worth noting that Harper, Wheeler and Realmuto all were signed as free agents in three different years. So suggesting that you can’t trade any of them this year and then replace those level of players in 2022 free agency doesn’t really hold water imo.

      I think this conversation all boils down to what’s your goal? how do you assess the current club? are we close to the Dodgers/Padres type clubs? How far? Are we just one or two relief pitchers from being at that level? how much are you willing to risk from our currently thin farm system to upgrade this club?

      No one knows the future. everyone may have slightly different pov’s on those questions.

      IMO, we could battle the Mets for the NL East if we had a better bullpen, but we are not close to the Dodgers or Padres level. Personally, I would not trade any real prospect for a rental to potentially catch the Mets and lose in the first round. But if DD can add a few decent bullpen pieces for a low ceiling prospect, then go for it. Otherwise, I would seriously consider trading an elite asset, a la Wheeler for a few high end prospects (similar to what CWS got for Sale) and re-tool in 2022 off-season.

      1. Okay, I hear you. Yes, you can trade players, reap prospects and then try to sign free agents again. Sometimes it can work. That’s what the Yankees did with Chapman and that worked (at least for a few years). And you’re right. It completely relates to your goals.

        But if your goal is to field a championship team in the reasonably near future, I find it hard to believe that trading one of those three guys this year would be a good idea.

        Let’s start with Wheeler. He is a steal of a free agent – their best signing since I cannot even recall. You may get some very good prospects. But you are not replacing him next year with anyone nearly as good as the cost of replacing him would be prohibitive even for the Phillies. But if your goal is to rebuild, then you almost have to trade him.

        Realmuto. He might get you a little, but, remember, this winter nobody would pay the amount you paid. Why, 5 months later would they agree to pay that money AND give you a lot of prospects? Desperation? Yeah, that moves the needle a little, but not a lot.

        Harper. Is he getting you a lot in return? Honestly, I don’t think so for the same reasons you won’t get a lot for Realmuto. And it will cost a bunch to replace him as I think he’s now among the most underrated players in baseball and, in my view, I think he will end up outplaying that contract at least for the first 9-10 years. Be careful what you wish for.

        1. Would you trade Wheeler for Moncada and Kopech? Right now. Would you do that deal? And if so, do you think that we would be better in 2022 with those two plus a good FA?

      2. I also hear you about Sale, but, when the White Sox did that trade they were in complete rebuilding mode and already had a boatload of prospects. The timing worked on that. I don’t think it would for 2022 reload if you trade Wheeler. You are not replacing him with prospects or affordable free agents, which is what he was.

        He’s one of the guys you keep in a reload situation and definitely sell in a rebuild.

    3. Agreed, Catch. People can conjure up all the fantasy trade scenarios they like but Wheeler is not getting traded.

      As we sit today, the Phillies have about a 10% chance (according to FG) to make the playoffs. In my opinion, if their situation doesn’t dramatically improve in the next three weeks the only trades they’ll make will be to improve around the margins (reliever, 5th starter) while staying below the luxury tax and parting with lesser prospect capital. This is the box they’ve been put into by the previous GM.

      They’re not trading for two month rentals like Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo – each with salaries that will push them over the luxury tax and require greater prospect capital when they only have a 10% chance to make the playoffs. However, if things improve significantly in the standings over the next three weeks then Dombrowski can have a discussion with ownership on players worth crossing the luxury tax for. Let’s all hope that scenario becomes more realistic by the end of the month.

    4. i Dont know what the phillies are doing, i just was asking if Wheeler can bring us some of the Padres good prospect , Your under 500 with him and have little money to spend, how do you improve?

  48. To the Minnesota Twins:
    1b Rhys Hoskins
    RHP Francisco Morales
    LHP Kyle Dohy
    C Rafael Marchan

    To the Philadelphia Phillies:
    LHP Taylor Rogers
    1b Aaron Sabato
    plus cash considerations

    Twins aren’t likely to rebuild but retool for 2022. Hoskins was born for the DH. Rogers is one more year arb eligible after’21, then a free agent after ’23, his age 32 season. He’s making $6M this year.

    2. That’s a fair offer. I doubt Minnesota was going to re-sign Rogers, and Sabato is not performing. Getting Morales (who has talent), Dohy, Marchan is a decent gamble.

    3. I don’t understand this offer. If we are adding a high end RP, then we are going for it. So why trade our cleanup hitter in that same deal for a prospect down in Low A?

      1. Whether you or I would, as things stand, I think Dombrowski goes for it, more or less. Rumblings are just that, rumblings…but my understanding is that Hoskins’ future and even his present role – NOT a cemented cleanup hitter in my estimation – is very tenuous in the eyes of DD and Girardi. That’s my sense, anyway. Good guy, good power bat, but hardly irreplaceable. Sabato represents high ceiling talent which might emerge in a change of scenery.

    4. mark….putting Morales in there, would be my stumbling block……his upside as a starter is there.
      He really has come on strong his 3 or 4 starts at Reading.

      Do understand the Twins are listening for offers for Jose Berrios.

    1. Never knew this big of a WAR discrepancy between Jeter and ARod.
      Álex Rodríguez (117.5)…. Derek Jeter (71.3)

      Come crunch time…I would prefer to have Jeter.

    1. “………a high-spin 2400 RPM sinker,…”..anymore when you hear of pitchers that have now high spin rates…the thought leads itself to Spider Tack or some other substance.

  52. Wicks changeup is due to lack of spin almost like a controllable knuckleball. But with his arm action hitters brain can’t help but think fastball.

  53. With attendance numbers dropping (I’m guessing) may find more guys that are closer to big show may be 1st rounders to sell tickets advertising units…..

    In the end owners only serve one thing.

    $$$$$

    1. I doubt it. The casual fan doesn’t care about the draft. And most drafted players will take at least 2 years+ to reach the bigs. Even the drafted players that you think may be fast risers could stumble. What Aaron Nola did to get to the bigs is an exception and easily not the norm.

      I’m not sure why it’s a surprise that the owners are looking to make money first. Not every owner can be Mark Cuban. Owners didn’t become rich by throwing their money around when they don’t have to.

    2. I Can see the stadium from tenth street when i drive near my home, I cant believe how bad the crowds are, The fans arent coming out, After one year of no fans, you think they would be selling out,

  54. I know Odubel has been nursing some lingering issues and he’s been slumping lately, but he’s not in the lineup today against a RH pitcher. I wonder if the probability of the Phillies picking up the team option for 2022 is declining.

    1. Barring an impressive streak down the stretch, I think his option already up and flew away. He’s not in the Phillies’ future, certainly not at that salary. I doubt he gets traded by the deadline because his value is nominal and his major league experience can serve the Phillies if only in a limited role for 2 months.

      1. Odubel’s team option for 2022 is $11.5M. That means all he has to do is make around 1.5 WAR and his production would more or less match his salary. He’s already at 1.4 WAR for this season. If you want to roll the dice and hope that say Luke Williams can get you 1.5 WAR, you can do that. But as people have seen with Haseley and Moniak, it’s not easy just to get 1.5 WAR. Odubel is still 4th in WAR among the Phillies’ hitters.

        1. They are not picking up Odubel’s option. Zero chance. He’s not a $11 million player in any scenario.

      2. mark8:29……also think Odubel does not get traded.
        However, if a team decides to acquire him for two months…he comes relatively cheap—$$$$.
        Phillies could easily pick up the remaining $3.5M this year, and if the other team wanted, the $3.5M buyout for 2022/23

  56. Not a soprise owners like $ but more so not like losing $$ and teams like Phils not doing well. Winning sooner is more important right now than waiting 5 years for 13tb round HS outfielder

  57. Also did someone forget to tell Joe G the game started and batting practice over. VV throwing 92 fastballs with no secondary not good idea against these bats

  58. Control sucked.
    Command sucked.
    Barely any swings-and-misses.
    … other than that, Vince Velasquez was awesome.

    1. It was one of the worst games I’ve seen VV pitch, and that’s saying a lot. He reverted back to the VV of old, which is not a good thing.

    2. I always wonder. What diehard philies fan meant, I saw last night V.V was pitching and i didn’t watch the game, Saw on post game ,Ben Davis kind of rip him saying What is he talking about in his post game. He did nothing tonight to build on, How many more years of this kid, he shouldn’t start anymore games, he has no clue how to pitch,,

      1. You saw that!
        Ben ripped him pretty good….he has not seen any MLB pitcher get this many chance/opportunities in a career.
        Then they went to Ruben for his take on Vinny….he was more tactful.

        1. I’ve never been, nor am I now, a Pivetta guy….he lasted, what…2 years or so with the big club before getting shipped out? Velasquez is now in his 6th major league season with the Phillies and they STILL insist on starting him. What are we missing here? He has one or two decent outings out of 10 and someone always thinks he’s turned the corner. And it’s always a dead end.

          2. I wish i could find my post Mark, I Always was a Pivetta guy, until last year, I said he had a big arm, i Really thought and said it, i thought his arm was better than Nola, But i towards the end of the season, said he had to go, Thought it was head game with him I Believe his success so far might be just change of league, will have to see if it lasts,

    1. Not sure here is coming back to Philly….his house went on the market last month.
      Then again, he could always rent a condo or something for a couple of months while the wife and kids remain in their other home.

      1. Romus i think he could live in your She shack in your yard, Its really nice

  61. Cole Irvin’s season stats are very much in line with Aaron Nolas on the year. Both have an average game score of 53. Have to believe our terrible defense is not doing our staff any favors.

  62. A lot is made of the risk of drafting pitchers (particularly High School pitchers) in the first round. Here is whom we would have if we selected the first high school pitcher in each draft over the last 10 years instead of the guy we took:
    – 2020: we took a HS pitcher
    – 2019: Quinn Priester instead of Stott. Priester is in high A and pitching well. He has a 80 grade curve according to Fangraphs, with a 60 fastball. He is pitching in the futures game this weekend. Personal opinion: a push at this point. Stott looks good, but a pitcher with a 60 fastball and 80 curve is rare and usually a recipe for success.
    – 2018: Ryan Weathers instead of Alex Bohm. Weathers pitched for the Padres in the playoffs last year as a 20 year old. As a 21 year old he has a 3.02 ERA in the first half of the season. Personal opinion: depends if Bohm is 2020 version or 2021 version. Weathers looks like a guy who will be a productive MLB pitcher for a long time. Not a ToR, but more like a really good #3. I comp him to Eflin
    – 2017: Shane Baz 12th (or Trevor Rogers 13th) over Haseley. Personal opinion: Either would be a massive upgrade over Haseley. Massive.
    – 2016: Ian Anderson over Moniak. Personal opinion: Obviously a massive upgrade over Moniak.
    – 2015: Kolby Allard over Randolph:. Personal opinion: Allard isn’t a star, but he is a productive MLB pitcher. He is still only 23 years old and has a 3.45 ERA in the first half of the year. Clearly we would have been better off with Allard over Randolph who is a bust.
    – 2014: We took Nola.
    – 2013: Hunter Harvey over JP Crawford. This is the first one where you clearly go Phillies pick over pitcher, but solely because Harvey got hurt. At one point Harvey was a top 5 prospect in all of baseball.
    – 2012: We took Shane Watson (a HS pitcher) who didn’t work out, but Lance McCullers was taken 1 pack later out of HS and has had an exceptional career. Think of how much better we would have been if we took McCullers instead of Watson.
    – 2011: Michael Fulmer over Larry Greene. Wow, this would have been another massive upgrade for us.

    Bottom line, if we had taken the best HS pitcher in the drafts where we took position players instead because they were lower risk, then we would have been a MUCH better club. Especially if we took McCullers over Watson. That was just a scouting miss.

    2. Also Watson got hurt and missed a good deal of time early in his career.

      Anderson was kind of a surprise as the first HS pitcher off the board. That was a good scouting job by the Braves. Had we gone with a HS pitcher we easily could have ended up with Riley Pint, Jay Groome, Matt Manning or Braxton Garrett. Yours is still an interesting point though.

      1. I would much rather have Groome, Manning or Garrett than Moniak. Pint’s issues are with walks, not arm injuries. If he can’t command that is bad scouting/Developemnt.

        The HS pitcher I really wanted was Daniel Espino, taken 24th overall in 2019 by Cleveland. I think that he is going to be a star. I wanted him badly for the 2019 draft.

    3. V1, not to dispute your post, but mighten 2014, not 2013, be the “first one where you clearly go Phillies pick over best HS pitcher (available at pick #7)” – presumably kodi-medeiros?

      1. Nah. I would never challenge taking an elite, polished college pitcher. My point is take pitchers with great stuff in first round. HS or College doesn’t matter to me. I just want them to invest in elite pitchers

    2. Wow, we were really smelling ourselves back then….goes to show you about prospects….or perhaps it’s MUCH MORE about player development? I mean, these were national rankings, a consensus among baseball insiders. So…hmmm.

      Let’s hope the new regime reverses this and the high ceiling kids in lower levels arise, and quickly.

      1. You would be amazed at all the stars in the MLB , or even role players of significance, who never made the Top 100 of any baseball listing..Goldey, Altuve for two….even rocco’s boy Cesar….a 13WAR career player

    3. Here’s the top 25 from 2016. How many of them are starter level and above?

      Corey Seager, SS, LAD
      Byron Buxton, OF, MIN
      Lucas Giolito, RHP, WAS
      Julio Urías, LHP, LAD
      J.P. Crawford, SS, PHi
      Orlando Arcia, SS, MIL
      Yoán Moncada, 2B, BOS
      Dansby Swanson, SS, ATL
      Joey Gallo, 3B, TEX
      Tyler Glasnow, RHP, PIT
      Trea Turner, SS, WAS
      Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL
      Alex Reyes, RHP, STL
      Blake Snell, LHP, TB
      Steven Matz, LHP, NYM
      Lewis Brinson, OF, TEX
      Rafael Devers, 3B, BOS
      Nomar Mazara, OF, TEX
      José Berríos, RHP, MIN
      Austin Meadows, OF, PIT
      Sean Newcomb, ATL, LHP
      Alex Bregman, SS, HOU
      Franklin Barreto, SS, OAK
      José De León, RHP, LAD
      Andrew Benintendi, OF, BOS

      2. You say that as if this weren’t a good list. It’s a great list – way, way, way more hits on this list than I think would be typical. It’s a fantastic list – like a big WAR machine.

        1. You know what, I stand corrected. This top 25 list is pretty epic. Lots of players actually made the bigs and there is a good mix of starter level talent with some elite players sprinkled in. But note that this is not the norm.

    1. “The 2012 high school class is particularly horrific. Of the 15 high school pitchers taken in the first round six years ago, only one is on the active roster of the team that drafted him”…..Phillies were fortunate….Eflin was drafted by the Padres.

    1. Yes very good data and analysis,
      ….also seems to play into one of the Commissioner’s long term goals….keep cutting the draft and lean more on college kids for development, ala NFL and sort of NBA……saves $$$$ in developmental aspects thru-out the minor league system. Would not surprise me if the draft is cut to 15 rounds in a few years forcing teams to think on the more physically and emotionally mature 21-year old and older college players..

  66. Watched an interview with Chase Petty. Great kid but they asked him about his arm strength and he said was ok till he went to one of those pitching factories that strengthens ur arm!

    Probably 20 years ago reading an article in popular mechanics actually while in traction for back. At that time they said a hard fastball puts more stress on elbow than curveball. One of pitchers they referred to was tigers Zumaya or something close to that. Lefty threw 102. Didn’t last long though

    1. This is a great video on Petty. He throws hard because he has elite leg drive and exceptional mechanics. I am not guaranteeing that he won’t end up with an arm injury. But don’t just assume so. He throws with his legs.

  67. V1 – Your “instead of” list for the draft probably would’ve been a failure because if the Phillies had drafted each player you suggested, they might never have progressed to where they are now because the Phillies are so poor at developing their minor leaguers.

  71. I find it unfathomable to believe that Moffo’s Uncle Caesar hit his 15th home run today. And we’re not even at the All Star break. At one time, not too long ago, we wondered if he’d ever hit a long ball. Is he juicin’ or what?

    1. And yet he’s not having a good season – only .7 WAR and .305 OBP. You want Cesar hitting line drives and drawing walks. But he’s a decent player, although he’s not even close right now to being as good as Jean Segura.

    2. Ciada I Am buying his jersey love Cesar, I am really trying to figure out how i could be so wrong about Stephens, And Irvin i check all my computer facts, watched the video and am so wrong on those two, just cant figure out how, I dont know how Romus does it, he is so wrong on a lot of things and it doesnt bother him

      1. rocco…I need a good laugh in the morning….thank you for that.

        Speaking of being wrong……who would have ever thought Baily Falter and Luke Williams would be the future core of these Phillies…well at least for 2022 right now!

        And if he ever gets healthy…..perhaps even Cornelius Randolph out in LF also.

        1. Yes, That is my biggest mistake, Williams i never thought he would ever make a major league team, Lucky i have big Susie

  72. Okay, now for our drafting. A couple of things.

    First, last year’s draft and UDFA signings. It looks like the current regime has a real feel for good, high potential arms. I think we will see that here soon the minors. I think there are some decent arms that are working their way through the system.

    But the bats are a problem. Barber is the anti-Almaraz. It looks like we are back to drafting guys who are really high upside athletes but with very suspicious hit tools. Radcliff and Martin are struggling in a big way. It’s a really small sample size with Barber, but if he drafts mostly high risk, high upside hitters, we have to see the high upside now and then. On that note, personally, I don’t think Barber seemed to be very successful in New York, which oddly seemed to concern nobody when he was hired.

    Last point and I raised this before. When it comes to selecting players, this team has no demonstrated organizational philosophy. We just drift back and forth depending on what guy we hire to run the draft. For a few years it was about finding guys with a good hit tool and pitchers with control. Then we veer wildly in the other direction, with high upside arms and risky, low hit tool athletes at the plate. I mean, literally, Barber’s philosophy appears to be the polar opposite of Almaraz’s approach. I generally prefer the former over the latter, but it’s a concern.

    1. I raised concerns with the Brian Barber hire at that time (Oct 2019). The Yankees drafts were consistently bad. I also mentioned that Damon Oppenheimer was the Yankees amateur scouting director, and he was the guy making the picks. Barber was a national cross-checker, and we had no idea who Barber liked and wasn’t drafted … and … who Barber didn’t like, yet Oppenheimer drafted anyway.

      Barber’s initial draft as Phillies amateur scouting director looks like a winner (so far) for me. Abel is already a stud prospect, with a strong chance to lead the Phillies rotation in a few years. Carson Ragsdale also looks like a very solid (or maybe much more) 4th round pick. He’s probably a top 10 prospect in the SFG’s organization right now. Barber didn’t have a second round pick, so he swung for the fences with Martin in the third round.
      He definitely drafted for tools last year. And with DD here, I’d bet they’ll be just as obsessed with tools (at least in the early rounds) this week too.
      I think there’s a good chance they pick a pitcher at 1-13. I like Solometo. But, I could also see any of Painter/Jobe/Cusick/Madden/Bachman/Hoglund nabbed with their first pick.

      1. I hope the Ragsdale trade doesn’t come back to bite the Phillies in the you know where. Romus reminded me that Ragsdale is dominating low A hitters as a college draftee, but Ragsdale could be at Reading if he stayed with the Phillies. Sullivan and Zarbinsky are at Reading as UDFAs last year so there is no reason why Ragsdale, as a fourth round pick, couldn’t be there. At a minimum he would be in Lakewood.

        1. 1.) you can’t compare the development progression thru an organization between an elite Prospect and UDFA prospects, orgs view them differently
          2.) you can’t compare how starters and relievers are developed in the low minors
          3.) Sullivan hasn’t pitched since June 23rd
          4.) Zarbniskey was a 2-way player at WV, and probably viewed as organizational fodder here
          5.) Ragsdale has a high K/9, yes, but he also has a high BB/9. As he moves up and faces older, better batters his K/9 will likely drop but his BB/9 will likely remain a concern

          Yes, he may come back to haunt us, but not based on anything he’s doing this season.

      2. Waiting for your thoughts, Hinkie. I agree = another pitcher ; I think 1) Jobe, 2) Painter, 3) Madden, 4) Wicks — if a position player 1) Cowser , 2 ) McClain. Benny Montgomery scares me as too toolsie and too much swing and miss. Seen too many of those guys. Would be interesting to see another pitcher to pair with Abel. I think Solometo will go later – like in the 20’s – along with Petty.

    2. I was concerned when I read the only player he discovered/signed that was of value was Judge.

  73. Catch 22 ur right called ownership. Certain pro organization GM offices change but not the success Steelers Red Sox of late Rays minor league system.

    1. This is going to get interesting. You figure that Sanchez will probably start since he’s stretched out. Llovera and Jones will likely get in if Sanchez’s start ends early. I guess if it had to happen, it’s better for it to happen just before the break.

  76. MLB Trade Rumors list landing spots for the Cubs Kimbrel lead by the Phillies. It will cost us some Top-30 guys but go get him. The Braves are toast with the unfortunate Acuna injury. Let’s run down the Mets. No bigger upgrade to this team could be had than excellent relief pitching.

    1. I agree. If Dombrowski’s in buy mode, might as well go get a needle mover or nothing at all. The Acuna blow to Atlanta should have the Mets and Phillies GMs on the phone pronto. NYM have an overrated roster IMO, and their 2nd half schedule is more difficult. The Nats don’t scare anybody. Kimbrel and another solid late inning piece would go far to save leads. This current iteration won’t.

    2. The Phillies are going to have to pay a heavy price for Kimbrel. I don’t think the Phillies can get Kimbrel without giving up Stott.

      2. I agree. Cubs will want best prospect. No chance they take Miller over Stott. They gave up Gleyber for 2 months of Chapman. They are going to want a great prospect for an elite closer.

        Imo trading a prospect like Stott to help this team maybe make the playoffs and lose in the first round is a huge mistake. This is not like going after Oswald or Pence. Those teams were real contenders. I was fine mortgaging the future to go for it. But this team is not a real contender even with an elite closer.

        1. Ruben mentioned that Saurez could be the closer in the second half.
          Maybe it was the euphoria of seeing him close down the Sox today and Ruben may have gotten a little above his skis on that prediction.

  77. Bohm, Nola, Brogdon and Falter are pathetic, selfish, lousy teammates. Awful. That’s it.

    1. Why are you saying that? There’s no word about what happened. If those 4 guys went to a party without masks, then yes, I would agree with tthat. But there’s been no news at all about what caused it.

    2. Pretty judgmental!……..understand it was just one.
      Evidently .all asymptomatic from what was reported.

      1. If you’re vaccinated, you don’t have to go into contact tracing protocols. It has been reported the Phils are in the bottom 7 of vaccination rates.

        1. I imagine they would if they were vaccinated but still caught it. It’s unlikely, but possible that one or more of them ARE vaccinated, but still caught it. Especially if it’s the delta variant which I’ve heard the vaccines are being tested at about 86% efficacy versus the normal 97% of the other variants.

          But considering where Nola and Bohm are from… yeah, the culture likely played a part in it and they probably didn’t get the vaccine.

  78. It’s now official, Alec Bohm has tested positive for Covid. He’s out a minimum of 10 days. There is no word about the other players.

    Turns out the Phillies are one of the few teams that didn’t hit the 85% vaccination target.

    Folks, please get vaccinated. Do it for your health, your family’s health, and for your community. That’s the fastest way we’ll ever get back to a normal life. And for the record, I was fully vaccinated by the end of May.

    1. Amen Guru! Can people just please listen to doctors and scientists and make a decision? When someone gets cancer, regardless of their political views, they go see an appropriate specialist with expertise. Could people just please do the same with an infectious disease specialist!!!!!

      1. I’d caution on being judgmental on this topic, it’s a difficult time in history for everyone. This includes younger athletes. The science shows various levels of risk for all age ranges, vaccinated or not, it’s simply not a one size fits all solution. There is risks for a 20-30 years old to get vaccinated vs not. Either way. Getting vaccinated doesn’t mean you won’t test positive & be asymptomatic. In a similar case, 9 CA capital workers ( I use them since close quarters & worker together everyday) just tested positive for covid, 4 of the 9 are vaccinated. I support the players, it is there body, they can make the risk assessment for themselves. It’s trying times for all.

        1. If they were worried about the side effects from the vaccine, then they should have opted out of the season. The side effects are in no way worse than the side effects of the disease itself, and their career puts them at EXTREME risk of exposure to it. Or at the very least, they should have been wearing a mask at all times.

          There is NO detrimental side effects of wearing a mask outside of mild discomfort. But if they’ve refused the vaccine and refused to do even the most basic level of preventative measures, then they are just being selfish. They are in the same locker room as Didi Gregorius, a man who has an actual high risk associated with catching Covid. Acting that selfish, especially in this scenario, is childish. No two ways about it.

          1. Respectfully, disagree. It’s not that cut and dry. I say this based on 15+ years bring in a hospital ER and ambulance setting. Myocarditis and pericarditis are serious side effects vs being asymptomatic but testing positive.

            1. And what are the long term side effects of wearing a mask if you aren’t vaccinated? Hell, I often wear a mask still and I AM vaccinated.

              If you think the vaccine is too risky, fine, WEAR A MASK. Won’t do either? You don’t deserve to be working closely with people who will. You say it’s not that cut and dry, but it is. You can’t say it’s too risky to get vaccinated, but not too risky getting the actual disease. You have no way of knowing whether you’ll be asymptomatic or not. So doing nothing to prevent the spread of the disease is both foolish and selfish.

      2. You say this, but there’s a non-zero amount of people who are diagnosed with some form of cancer and refuse treatment in favor of “holistic” solutions. I’m not saying not to do any of those others things… just don’t do it in place of a doctor’s treatment options, or if it interferes with them. If you’re still getting treated and it won’t exacerbate any issues, it’s fair game. Have at it.

        But yeah, I’m a young, healthy man. I’ve never been at serious risk from Covid. But it’s not about ME. It’s about all of us. I’ve worn my mask, I’ve stayed out of public as much as possible, and I gave up my weekend a couple months back to get vaccinated (the side effects caused me to sleep through the entire day of Saturday). Part of being in a society and a community is doing things for the betterment of others. Do your part when you’re able to.

  79. And now the Vince “I’ve been stealing money for 4 years” Velasquez video gets released. Guess what bud, you suck at baseball. Also, love your surprise that someone is filming you making an ass of yourself. Please just get rid of him yesterday Phillies. This organization is just a total dumpster fire with a disastrous culture.

    1. If you want to yell stuff at a player when he’s “off the clock” I don’t see any problem with him saying something back.

  80. Another Pitcher who can’t make a simple throw to 1B! Sanchez just threw a dribbler away. The lack of simple fundamentals is really unbelievable. Anyway, Hinkie, who is your last minute pick for 1.13 this evening? I am going Pitching, Painrer, Solomento, Bachman. I think Bennie Montgomery goes before we pick.

  81. Nick Pivetta needs to calm down. Presumably the Red Sox are letting him be “more emotional” since he’s performing but that act gets tired fast if he’s not.

    1. Normally, I don’t want to wish ill on people but karma is a you know what. Nick, don’t talk bad about the Phillies who tried their best to make you into a major league pro.

      And you wonder what’s going on with the Red Sox scouting reports. Torreyes can hit a fastball. He’s done it the whole year. And Pivetta grooves a fastball and Torreyes was waiting for it and didn’t miss it. It went a mile!

  83. Sanchez did a good job getting out of the 4th. Why did JoeG not just start Neris in the 5th? What is he doing? How many times has he let a Relieved start an inning and pull him right away? Why?

  86. Credit where it’s due; the Phillies just won 3 consecutive series, two of them against two of the best teams in baseball at the moment. 7-3 in your last 10 games is no joke. Especially since one of the losses was with Wheeler (who has been money), and one of the wins was with the BP (who have… not been money…).

    If they’re gonna make this playoffs, this is where it starts. So now Dombrowski’s job is even harder. Do you buy into that this is who the team is? Or is it a mirage? Decisions, decisions…

  87. Also, DanK, kudos to Torryes, who has played very well. I kept watching the lead disappear, wondering who was getting the last 9 outs, never thinking 7 would be Ranger’s. Another BP arm, and another SP would be nice, and we have not seen DD do much yet. There is a chance here to make a Division run, and I know, I have believed lots of times before and been burned. Many of those times have been because we failed at the trade deadline, and this year I am counting on Dombrowski.

  88. This is what I love about baseball. In 2020, everybody was wondering what was going on with Suarez. Now, seemingly out of nowhere, Suarez has pitched well enough to be the new Phillies closer. Who would have thought this would happen?

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