Open Discussion: Week of June 27, 2021

Weekly Discussion

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other baseball topics.

Key Dates:

  • June 25, 2021 – Close of the 2020 international signing period
  • June 28, 2021 – FCL season begins (through September 12th)
  • July 11-13, 2021 – 2021 Amateur Draft
  • July 12, 2021 – DSL starts (through October 2nd)
  • July 30, 2021: Trade Deadline (4 p.m. ET)
  • Oct. 3, 2021: Regular season concludes

Transactions (last two week’s transactions)

6/27/2021 – RHP David Hale elected free agency
6/27/2021 – Phillies sent RHP David Hale outright to Lehigh Valley
6/26/2021 – Phillies optioned C Rafael Marchan to Lehigh Valley
6/26/2021 – Phillies optioned OF Matt Vierling to Lehigh Valley
6/26/2021 – Phillies activated C Andrew Knapp from the 7-day IL
6/26/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed C Edgar Cabral on the 7-day IL, index finger
6/26/2021 – RHP Andrew Brown assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
6/26/2021 – RHP Carlos A Francisco assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
6/25/2021 – Phillies sent RF Matt Joyce on a rehab assignment to Clearwater
6/25/2021 – Phillies sent RHP Brandon Kintzler on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
6/25/2021 – Phillies recalled SS Nick Maton from Lehigh Valley
6/25/2021 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Neftali Feliz from Lehigh Valley
6/25/2021 – Phillies placed RHP Sam Coonrod on the 10-day IL, right forearm tendinitis
6/25/2021 – Phillies recalled RHP Enyel De Los Santos from Lehigh Valley
6/25/2021 – Phillies designated RHP David Hale for assignment
6/25/2021 – RHP Mike Adams assigned to Lehigh Valley from Jersey Shore
6/25/2021 – RHP Adam Leverett assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
6/24/2021 – RHP Mark Appel assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/24/2021 – LHP Zach Warren assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/24/2021 – LHP Jakob Hernandez assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/24/2021 – LHP Nick Lackney assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
6/24/2021 – RHP Aneurys Zabala assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
6/24/2021 – RHP Victor Santos assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
6/24/2021 – LHP J.P. Woodward assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
6/24/2021 – RHP Tyler Burch assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
6/24/2021 – Clearwater activated RHP Alejandro Made from the TIL
6/24/2021 – Leonel Aponte assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
6/23/2021 – Phillies activated LHP Matt Moore
6/23/2021 – Phillies optioned SS Nick Maton to Lehigh Valley
6/22/2021 – Phillies signed FA C Logan Moore to an MiLB contract
6/22/2021 – Phillies signed FA CF Logan Landon to an MiLB contract
6/22/2021 – 2B Jake Elmore assigned to Lehigh Valley from FCL Phillies
6/22/2021 – OF Charlie Tilson assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/22/2021 – C Logan Moore assigned to Lehigh Valley
6/22/2021 – 2B Sal Gozzo assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
6/22/2021 – Reading placed 1B Brock Stassi on the 7-day IL retro to 6/21/21, oblique injury
6/22/2021 – Reading transferred LHP Taylor Lehman from the 7- to the 60-day IL, elbow
6/22/2021 – Reading transferred RHP Joel Cesar from the 7-to the 60-day IL, elbow strain
6/22/2021 – OF Logan Landon assigned to Reading
6/22/2021 – OF Corbin Williams assigned to Jersey Shore from Lehigh Valley
6/22/2021 – 2B Casey Martin assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
6/22/2021 – C Herbert Iser assigned to Jersey Shore from Lehigh Valley
6/22/2021 – RHP Hsin-Chieh Lin assigned to Clearwater from Phillies Organization
6/22/2021 – SS Jose Tortolero assigned to Clearwater from Jersey Shore
6/22/2021 – Clearwater transferred RHP Starlyn Castillo from the 7-day to the 60-day IL
6/22/2021 – RHP Dylan Castaneda assigned to Phillies Organization from Clearwater
6/22/2021 – OF Jose Cedeno assigned to Phillies Organization from Reading
6/22/2021 – C Freddy Francisco assigned to Phillies Organization from Jersey Shore
6/20/2021 – RF Jose Cedeno assigned to Reading from GCL East
6/19/2021 – Phillies selected the contract of LF Charlie Tilson from Long Island
6/19/2021 – Phillies selected the contract of OF Matt Vierling from Lehigh Valley
6/19/2021 – Phillies placed C Andrew Knapp on the 7-day IL, concussion
6/19/2021 – Phillies placed RF Matt Joyce on the 10-day IL, low back strain
6/19/2021 – Phillies recalled C Rafael Marchan from Lehigh Valley
6/19/2021 – Lehigh Valley placed CF Adam Haseley on the 7-day IL, right groin strain
6/19/2021 – C Herbert Iser assigned to Lehigh Valley from Jersey Shore
6/19/2021 – OF Charlie Tilson assigned to Reading
6/19/2021 – Jersey Shore placed CF Hunter Markwardt on the 7-day IL
6/19/2021 – C Freddy Francisco assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
6/19/2021 – C Micah Yonamine assigned to Clearwater from Phillies Organization
6/18/2021 – Jersey Shore placed RHP Noah Skirrow on the 7-day IL
6/18/2021 – 3B Dalton Guthrie assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/18/2021 – Jersey Shore activated RHP Mark Potter from the 7-day IL
6/16/2021 – Phillies recalled SS Nick Maton from Lehigh Valley
6/16/2021 – Phillies placed SS Jean Segura on the 10-day IL, left groin strain
6/15/2021 – LHP Erubiel Armenta assigned to Clearwater from DSL Red
6/15/2021 – Phillies selected the contract of 1B Brock Stassi from Long Island
6/15/2021 – Phillies signed free agent IF Hao Yu Lee to an MiLB contract
6/15/2021 – CF Matt Vierling assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
6/15/2021 – Reading placed C Nick Matera on the 7-day IL, left meniscus tear
6/15/2021 – Reading activated C Rodolfo Duran from the 7-day IL
6/15/2021 – Reading placed RHP Colton Eastman on the 7-day IL, right index finger fracture
6/15/2021 – 1B Brock Stassi assigned to Reading
6/15/2021 – C Vito Friscia assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
6/15/2021 – Clearwater placed RHP Alejandro Made on the TIL
6/15/2021 – IF Hao Yu Lee assigned to GCL East
6/14/2021 – Phillies recalled LHP Bailey Falter from Lehigh Valley
6/14/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Enyel De Los Santos to Lehigh Valley
6/14/2021 – OF Grenny Cumana assigned to GCL East
6/14/2021 – 2B Jake Elmore assigned to GCL East
6/13/2021 – Phillies signed FA SS Jake Elmore to an MiLB contract
6/13/2021 – Phillies signed FA SS Grenny Cumana to an MiLB contract

391 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of June 27, 2021”

      1. Tampa does not draft exceptionally well….first or second rounds….but they have set the bar high on trades.
        They seem to come out on top on virutally all their trades.
        The whole starting eight are trade guys I think…except for now recently promoted Wander Franco..

  2. Yesterday was a good example on how to utilize your bullpen. Get at least a 4-run lead, good starting pitching for 7 innings then give the bullpen some room for mediocrity. Closer comes in with 3 run lead.

    1. He’s knocking off a lot of rust and pitched very well in his first AAA outing, which was encouraging.

  5. Hawk I – LHV is totally depleted of starting pitching. They need bodies and Appel is the logical choice. I hope he does well. Have been rooting for him but this is probably make or break for him. If this doesn’t work out for him, he’ll most likely retire for good.

    1. I watched those Pivetta comments live. It was such an eye opening response. They need to mix-up what they have on the major league roster because you definitely don’t get the vibe that this team expects to win as currently compose. I’d say they expect to lose. A legit closer seems like a must next year regardless of how they reorganize the team. You can only expect to win so much when you blow 20 saves before the midway point of the season…

  7. My guess is that DD wants to do a partial blow up of the roster but still contend. So we may see some big pieces moved, but not necessarily for a prospect heavy package. More likely for MLB level players. So I will throw a name out there that might initially shock you, but IMO the MOST valuable trade asset we have is Wheeler. He is under control for 3.5 more years at a reasonable price. He is a true TOR stud. Would be awesome in anyone’s rotation. My guess is we could do a massive roster overhaul if we were willing to give him up. Whom do you think we could get in return for Zack?

    1. Here is a crazy offer…Wheeler for Bo Bichette plus some minor league pitchers.

      Toronto has Austin Martin to backfill Bo in a year or so. They have plenty of offense but need pitching badly.

      Bo would give us a good young, cheap player at shortstop. We can then move DiDi to third. Bohm to first and trade Rhys to shore up our bullpen.

      Obviously our SP gets weaker. So it is a big trade off.

      2. I would definitely be interested to see what Wheeler could bring back. Would want a high upside young arm as well.
        Also, they should make Nola and Eflin available as well.

      3. They will get a nice haul for Wheeler.
        And if you trade a Wheeler, then the Phillies may be forced to draft a college pitcher in the first round, to try to fill out the rotation….Abel and Morales are a few years away, and Erik Miller’s shoulder is still a question mark long term.

        1. Shouldn’t let that dictate draft decisions at all. Best player available don’t force position or get cute with trying to save money to go over slot later.

          2. Disagree……you take the best pitcher or you end up with three catchers, three defensive liability LFers or first basemen….and yuo are stuck and cannot move them.

            1. Disagree. That’s what the Orioles did when they took Dylan Bundy over Buster Posey (because they had Matt Weiters). Take the best available player.

            2. Thats a bunch of crap……when you are drafting in the top ten/15….who is to say who is the best player.
              Everyone can be a Monday morning QB.

              Phillies took JPC at 13 over Judge at 32 by the Yankees…..because he was the better player!

            3. Not a bunch of crap. The team does an evaluation as all teams do, of the best players and ranks them. I suppose there may be times when the player evaluations are sufficiently close that you might take one guy you really need over another guy where there is less need or no need.

              That said, as a general rule, you don’t draft in the MLB draft for need – you take the best available player. If you start drafting for need in the MLB draft, you are generally going to have horrible drafts because the hit rates are so low.

              If you’re saying in the top drafting in the top 10/15 doesn’t have an opinion as to who the best player is when their time comes up to select and that all of these players are interchangeable in ranking, then you need to fire those people and replace them with people who make better judgments.

            5. By the way, when you are talking about Judge and JPC, yes, the Phillies took JPC because they THOUGHT he was the better player. Obviously, Marti Woelever was not the best talent evaluator they ever had although I won’t kill for him JPC – JPC has a lot of talent and is growing into a first division regular and even a borderline all-star (he’s on a pace for 5.4 WAR – that’s pretty darned good).

            7. My apologies it was even worse than I recalled – it was Brian Matusz who the Orioles selected ahead of Buster Posey, not Dylan Bundy.

      4. I think if we trade Wheeler, we need to do a complete tear down. Our SP with him is playoff caliber, but not without him. Especially if Nola isn’t turning the corner right now. I think Nola (currently) and Eflin can win about 50% of games against playoff teams, but any of our option after them are 30% or less. So if we don’t have that one pitcher who’s going to give us better than a coin flip, then what’s the point?

        Which is not necessarily to say that we shouldn’t trade Wheeler. Just that if we do, we’re scrapping this year and probably next year.

        1. Realistically they aren’t in a position to compete this year or next with what they have. Would do everything possible to rebuild a pretty barren system.

          It’s tough to tell that to Bryce and JT but I’d let them try and find trades for themselves as well.

        2. Totally agree on JPC, but yet again rebuild or what? Segura doesn’t really help the Phils enuf to trade a controllable player? High school players need time and they obviously mis-scouted his talent too!! Even for sh**ts and giggles look at Garrett clevinger! Something is wrong here, how do we even know they are drafting the wrong players when they keep getting better elsewhere??

      5. This offer does another thing…it frees up a lot of cap space for next year’s FA crop, which includes some really good SPs

        1. I don’t think there is anyway they give us Bichette. I proposed a similar trade last week for Nola which would include Martin coming back to us plus Fraso and maybe another piece or two.

          Fraso hasn’t pitched since June 3rd so not sure if he is hurt but either way I think the Blue Jays have some depth in their minors where the Phillies could score two top level players and both sides would benefit.

          I also agree Wheeler is very attractive to a few teams right now and would return strong value. The Cardinals and Padres both come to mind.

          1. Realistically … DD is way more likely to want to build around the Wheeler/Nola/Eflin TOR than deal from it.
            And DMAR is right. Wheeler could not get you Bichette.

            Whether it’s in July or this winter, the Phillies POBO is going to shake this team up. A closer is obvious. He’ll need to improve the defense. But … not to be overlooked … he’s got to find a DUDE/Bad A$$/leader. He needs to find a veteran with the cache to step into the clubhouse and lead this wayward group. I’ve been wracking my mind trying to figure out who this guy is. It finally hit me: Josh Donaldson. He’s 35 YO and on a last place team. Up until this season, Donaldson has won everywhere he’s played: Oakland/Toronto/Cleveland/Atlanta/Minnesota. He’s owed 50M after this season so he won’t cost a lot.

            1. Donaldson could be to the 2022 Phillies what Pete Rose was to the 1980 Phillies….a leader who knows how, and also needs to win.

            2. I’m totally down with this move – Middleton needs to put up some shekels to make this work – very worth it.

        2. If you trade Wheeler, next year’s FAs will be asking for a lot of no trade clauses.

          Not only that, you’re going to have a boatload of unhappy Phillies in the clubhouse. So if you’re trading Wheeler, you pretty much have to trade everybody and start over. If you thought the clubhouse was toxic now, imagine how bad it would be if Wheeler gets traded.

  8. Pivetta also mentioned how they “grind out ABs and play really good Defense.” 2 very important things that we are terrible at. The Defense is awful, and no one in Management seems to care, and the rare times that a hitter grinds out an AB is a cause for celebration, not a team wide MO. And, Pivetta’s comments did not have any animus attached. He was trying to answer honestly, not take a shot at the Phils. I always liked Pivetta, and I think he, along with Eflin, were the most damaged by Chris Young’s “one style fits all” approach. Eflin just said the heck with it, I am going back to what got me here.

    1. Not sure I take Pivetta’s word as the gold standard. Boston does NOT play good defense. They might be one of the only teams that are worse than the Phillies in that regards.

      I do agree that they do a much better job of grinding at-bats.

      It’s understandable that Pivetta has a bad taste in his mouth from his time with the Phillies with how he was jerked around by the previous manager/pitching coach so I’m not surprised he’s much happier in Boston.

    2. Defense, sure. But “grinding out at bats” is bull. The Phils see 3.96 pitches per plate appearance. The Red Sox 3.88.

      1. Sox 2021 year could be an anomaly…their pitching is older and who knows how Sale will be on his return from TJ.
        The offense is basically three players after this year…Verdugo, Devers and Bogaerts….Martinez wil be 35 next season so there are no guarantees on his production

  9. Guys, it doesn’t matter to me what Boston does or doesn’t. What I do know is that we couldn’t help Pivetta pitch well, and they have been able to. It’s not all luck, however, a little luck helps. I can watch us play, however, and know that we play terrible defense, and no one would ever accuse us of “grinding out ABs.” Meanwhile, do we have a 100% agreement that the trade for Workman and Hembree was a disaster?

    1. It looks like more than a LITTLE luck. His K and BB rates are in line with his career averages, as is his hard hit%. His LD% is barely down, and yet his H/9 and HR/9 are way down. In addition, he’s got WAY lower GB% and way higher FB%, all while sporting the lowest BABIP of his career by almost 40 points. And even with all of that, he’s sitting at an even 4 ERA.

      I wouldn’t want him on my team when those numbers start to regress.

      There’s plenty to be upset about with the Phils, but Pivetta is the same pitcher as he’s always been. Maybe even worse (can you imagine his numbers in CBP with almost a third of his balls in play being in the air?). Don’t lose sleep over him.

  10. I just can’t trust another rebuild. I know that Hinkie and v1 and all of you can propose trades that make sense. But, actually pulling it off? I still have the emotional scars of Rolen and Schilling and Cliff Lee trades! And, I understand the idea that we have so many holes and not much young talent. But, a genuine Closer has us in 1st place. Even with bad defense and poor situational hitting. There were, and will be, Closers available, and Dombrowski has yet to make his moves. I also nave zero belief that ownership has any thoughts of a rebuild. Trading Wheeler means blowing up the whole thing, and I think that may be 2 years too soon.

    1. Ownership is not doing a full rebuild – I cannot foresee that occurring. They might punt for a season and reload for next season, but I think they will avoid a rebuild at all costs.

  11. Dear Dave D or to whom it may concern,

    Please help us watch a game with some hope. Really does no good to play a team if we can’t hold a lead in the last inning. Please get a closer who can consistently lock down an inning so I can watch the Phillies again. It’s been a few years of collapse. Thank you

  12. I am not trying to rub this in anyone’s face but the Phillies missed on Cole Irvin. I know he’s not a star and he doesn’t throw hard but he’s learned to do the best with his talent. I was happy when he was drafted and saw him pitch for Williamsport in Norwich and in Hartford when he was with Reading.

    He’s a gamer and knows how to pitch. Sure, he’s a soft tosser but he can get it up to 95 on occasion and he has pretty good command. He’s a lot like Glavine; I’m not saying he’ll ever be as good as Glavine. He hits his spots and when he gets into a rhythm, he can give his club a lot of innings.

    The Phillies gave up on him as a starter and put him into the long man role in the bullpen. Cole Irvin is NOT a relief pitcher. He needed to start and have a team believe in him even if that meant going 4-10 and 5-9 his first couple of years. They keep throwing Velasquez out there because he has “potential”.

    Our team missed the boat on Irvin. I believe that he will be a very serviceable 4th or 5th starter in this league. He might get pounded in his next ten starts but I tend to doubt it. When the Phillies give up on someone, that’s it. No chance to work it out. It’s now-immediately or never. They did the same thing with Crawford.

    1. Glavine, there is a name for you! Glad he is no longer on the Braves. Maddox, Glavine, Smotlz …. Nightmares

    2. Irvin really never showed much as a big leaguer, although it was SSS. So, you can second guess them on that one, but it wasn’t like you saw potential oozing out of Irvin – he’s a back end guy. He’s developed. Good for him. But I get why the Phillies moved on.

      But there’s no excuse for letting Bailey Falter languish anywhere in this organization. If he’s not going to start here – and he damned well should – then he should be getting some more innings as a starter in AAA.

      One of my biggest problems with the Phillies – and it’s been a problem for a while – is that they can’t scout their own players. How is Bailey Falter not in the rotation or even given a try-out there? Is it because of Matt Moore? If so, that’s a profound error in judgment in my humble opinion.

      1. Jim – no, we didn’t forget that he tapped out – he was also our top prospect for like 3 years and was pretty dominant until he hit AAA. He has a lot of talent.

        Anyway, for like the 5th time – Bailey Falter needs to be in the rotation now. Dear Phillies – pay attention to what’s happening in front of you. A very good starting pitcher is right there – don’t blow it. Put him in the rotation. It might help save your season.

  13. Trading Wheeler or Nola would be hard to stomach but it likely needs to be done to more forward. Hoskins & McCutchen as well. Those 3.
    I don’t know the FA market, but I’m more okay with it if the Phils can throw money at equivalent starting pitching & get some useable pieces back in return this trade deadline. I’d also rather go for a known commodity, one that has proven something at the MLB level vs a high valued prospect… unless it it an absolute can’t miss …. No Dom Browns please.

  14. I think trading Wheeler is beyond silly. If you want to change the culture of the team from a team of woe is me losers to players who expect to win night in and night out you need to start winning games and you don’t do that by trading an ace.

    This team isn’t THAT bad it just feels like it because of how they lose. If they sure up the defense (trade Rhys, slide Bohm to 1B is a potential move that would shake up the core and improve the defense) I think they can hang in there.

    There’s some star power on the free agent market this year but even if they don’t go that route there’s a lot of shorter term guys who can help next year (i.e. Simmons and slide Gregorious to 2B or 3B, a guy like Starling Marte, etc).

    1. Agree JL26. They aren’t blowing up the team for are rebuild with a $200 million payroll and having signed $$$ FA’s the last couple of years.

      They are not a bad team but don’t win consistently because they give away games with bad defense and relief pitching..

      My hope with bringing in Dombrowski is that they do start making deals/signing players with some type of plan in place. Up until now, they haven’t seemed to have much of an overall strategy.

      Focus needs to be on upgrading the back-end of the bullpen and improving the defense. I’m all in on moving Hoskins in a deal that improves one of those 2 areas. Move Bohm to 1st where he seemed to play better defensively and hope his sophomore slump is just that.

      Say goodbye to Cutch and Odubel and take the $30M saved to shop the big SS market but need to focus on one of the ones that can also play defense (Story).
      Move Didi to 3rd (or better yet, trade him completely) and find a CF that plays GG level defense even if it costs some offense.

      1. IMHO, the Phillies are not signing any FA SS. Because if they wanted to do that, they wouldn’t have signed Didi to a 2 year deal. Not only that, their best position prospect is a SS. The Phillies are already paying Harper, Wheeler, Realmuto, 20M+ per year. The Phillies could concievably fit another large contract under the tax threshold, but it’s going to be really tight. And if the Phillies sign Story, you can kiss goodbye to Eflin (1 more year) and Nola (2 more years).

        I think if the Phillies don’t sign a big FA, they can likely re-sign Eflin or Nola (but not both).

      2. BTW, Odubel’s WAR is 1.5 with 0.7 dWar. He has the best defense out of all the Phillies. He’s playing at a near GG level. He’s NOT the reason why the Phillies are losing.

  15. I don’t see Wheeler traded because behind closed doors he signed with Phils because his wife/family wanted him to stay in the “area.” To trade him after only this limited a stay with the team would be damaging to any future FA signings – and that is where the team “plays.” Why shoot your player resource down ?

    To a point above – it seems to me that if DD can somehow get Ian Kennedy from Texas and possibly another under the radar relief pitcher (from Pittsburgh – Chris Stratton, Orioles) that would somehow salvage the bullpen enough so that team isn’t losing every game in the 8th/9th innings. Even with the lousy defense and stop/start hitting it would be enough for them to be more competitive in the standings. A change of 5-6 games of the many they have thrown away would have them right with the Mutts. Hoskins is not likely to go anywhere for the same reason until the winter, in my humble opinion.

    1. RU…..what about Wheeler to the Yankees?
      Clint Frazier, Jasson Dominguez and Deivi Garcia
      Cashman would break their bank….but he more than likely gets to the WS

      1. Hard decisions are ahead I don’t want to trade wheeler but let’s be honest we’re stuck in mediocrity we’re either going to be a few games above 500 or below it’s been that way for 10+ years we don’t have the resources to trade for players to make a true playoff run we also don’t have the money to go out in free agency and spend unless we’re going to go over the salary cap I know it’s not a salary cap you know exactly what I mean the issues areThe only way to improve the current team is to sell off valuable assets get a player in return or can’t miss prospect and then go back into free agency and re-buy what you just sold off that’s how you move ahead or we hope the prospects are going to come soon and take us to the promised land

      2. Sorry I’m having trouble posting which is why I left previously not sure what goes on bottom line team is stuck in mediocrity they don’t have a prospects to trade to get better and they don’t have the financial bigger room due to the To outspend their problems the only solution that I see that is feasible in my opinion is to trade an asset somebody wants like wheeler Nolla Hoskins, get a similar player back in a trade at a different position or trade for a can’t miss prospect … and then to dip back into free agency and throw money at a similar player or a position

  16. With DD at the helm, it is MUCH more likely that we trade multiple top 10 prospects than we trade anyone on our 25. You’re dreaming if you think DD is going to trade Wheeler or Nola. That’s not how DD operates and not why he came here. Every prospect not named Abel is available in a trade to help this team. However I doubt they’ll I trade for any 2 month rentals.if you want to guess on trades, look for decent veterans available from teams out of it this year who are signed for more than this year. Several A ball prospects could be on the move away, if I had to guess.

    1. Murray, UNFORTUNATELY, I believe you are right. They will trade young kids 20-22 for a few more wins now and next year that won’t mean anything then the next rebuild will take that much longer. Just what losers do and the Phillies have lost more games than any sports franchise in history.

  17. Romus – Thus far this season, Devi Garcia has an ERA of 6.48 ERA with the Yankees and since being sent down to Scranton, his ERA is 8.80. Clint Frazier is batting .187 with 64 Ks in 216 PA and is not a very good defender. Cashman would make that trade in a NY minute. He’d probably throw in some of his own money to make it work.

    Player A 69 starts 181 chances 11 errors .939 fielding %
    Player B 58 starts 210 chances 17 errors .919 fielding %

    Player A Alec Bohm Player B Fernando Tatis Jr.

    For some reason, the Phillies have a lot of trouble with Wade Miley.

    1. ciada…….sure those Yankees are struggling……but all players struggle.
      They have talent and eventually it comes to the top.
      Frazier has been jerked around, Garcia needs to get experience….and Jasson Dominguez has the potential for the next great Latin break thru player….though Cashman already said he is not moving him…..but Cashman may want a WS ring now after 12 years past.
      Then there is the money aspect……Phillies have greater flexibility to shop again.

      1. Romus – I don’t care for your Cashman proposal as I don’t think Frazier nor the diminutive Garcia are going to amount to very much, said respectfully. Frazier – as you point out has been jerked around but he is not a competent fielder. I think Yankees will give Dominguez the “Judge treatment” – meaning they will be constantly approached about trading him but will always say NO . They have too much to lose after paying him the 5 mill bonus and then have him turn into Tatis Jr or Vlad, etc. But that was a nice trade to toss out there…

  18. I’m sorry the same people who lament 10+ years of no playoffs caution about blowing up the team by trading the best assets as unwise… You mean like 11 years. 12 years, 13 years or 14 years of not making the playoffs which is the projection with this team as it’s currently constructed? Having not been to playoffs in 10 years doesn’t shield anyone from being traded if it makes the team better in the long run..

  19. Lot of diverse opinions today on how to improve the club and any of the approaches mentioned or combination of could/might work if we have a little luck. The thing that bothers me is the idea that pitching is paramount and that will kickoff a storm of comment for sure.

    Our SP is good enough to win now, our BP is not, neither is our defense or our hitting. No farm to draw from. The best we can do without spending money is to trade some of our strength (SP) to upgrade the weaknesses above and that will not get us a WS in the next 2 years.

  20. Bad business if you start trading guys you just signed to longer contracts. Especially for a team the depends on spending the big bucks.

    Gotta tinker by moving a Hoskins and Maybe Cutch. Move Didi to 3rd or first keep torryes at SS. Segura comes back not the worst infield. Bullpen and some outfield help take one or 2 year shot after that consider options

  21. Romus………..or anybody that is fortunate to watch Howard tonight, please give a report. I’m blacked out!

  22. Why isn’t Spencer in AAA working on his game? How does it help him or the team to pitch a couple of innings? He is our top Pitching prospect, so he needs to go to the 6th inning in games, right? Work on his strength, his stamina, whatever it takes to go 6 innings in LHV. How does this help, what they are doing with him currently?

    1. I agree, what is the point of putting Spencer Howard out there if you’re going to yank him before he finishes the 3rd? This is now his 5th start, and he’s never made it to the 5th inning in all of them. The Phillies are monitoring his workload anyways so just put him in the bullpen and tell him to air it out. Then you put him in an offseason program to build him up for ST. Falter should be starting. This is ridiculous.

    2. If Howards moves to the bullpen, I would also give Howard the opportunity to finish games. He definitely has the stuff to do it. Maybe he’ll like it and want to do it. The Phillies need a closer right?

  23. Nobody sweats like Jerad Eickhoff and not many give up dingers like him. Three tonight already. Was always pulling for him. Thought and hoped he’d be a mainstay in the Phillies rotation for many years.

    1. I always liked Eickhoff. He was a hard worker and he had a feel for pitching. Injuries and velocity derailed his career here.

    1. So they could put in Neftali Feliz in a high leverage situation in his first mlb appearance

  26. Seriously want to throw something at the TV! Falter was terrific! Feliz, walk HBP grand slam!!! Lead gone!

  28. And just when there is some semblance of hope that the Phillies could come back, DLS has his own meltldown. And for those who don’t know, it’s his second meltdown of the season in his 5th appearance.

  29. They had to get DLS out of the game before a fan sitting in the outfield seats got hurt.

  31. Man, I’m pissed. Feliz gives up a grand slam because he got too wild, and DLS throws 37 pitches to get 2 outs (and he gave up 6 runs, and he had an error). This is bogus man.

  32. Even David Bell took pity on his former team and sent a pitcher to hit against Nick Maton. That is a like a stone cold kick to the groin. It’s like, “We got this game in the bag and we want to go back to the clubhouse to celebrate so here’s an easy out because we don’t want be out there for another 20min.”

    Just when you think the Phillies can’t lose in create ways, here we go.

    1. Guru – The Phillies don’t lose in creative ways. It is the same story. Pitchers airmailing balls to first, walking batters, hitting batters, passed balls, wild pitches, not to mention the dingers mixed in to put it away. All that changes is the man on the mound.

  33. Spencer Howard has five starts this season. During innings one and two in those starts, opposing batters are slashing .090/.189/.121. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out he should be used as a late inning reliever for the rest of the year (even if he can only go every third day).

    1. Hinkie – I agree. I would rather see Falter start, especially since it looks like he can potentially give the team 5+ strong innings. At this point, I’d let Howard try to close some games.

  34. We need to find the good from this game. The Phillies DID lead 4-2 for a little while. Any chance that JC Romero, Ryan Madson, and Brad Lidge can all come out of retirement? They can’t do much worse than this bunch.

    1. The good………..someone with ticket no. 1536702 won a large marinara pizza with mushrooms and basil from Little Nicky’s in downtown Cincy.😋

  35. I am angry, embarrassed and a little sick at what this team is. And I am not paying $206 Million for it! Middleton has to feel that much worse than I do. What Dombrowski thinks, I have no idea, but this wasn’t just 1 game. This was a summation of what we have gone through for 10 years. It’s actually a worse feeling than the 3 blown save game.

  37. I’m pretty sure if the Phillies did have a closer, their defense would find a way to contribute to the blown save totals. This team is not good enough. I’ll let this simmer, but a retool is in order. They need to be selling at the deadline.

    1. I think its funny, Two weeks ago i said sell and no one wanted too, I said see if we can get rid of Harper and others for prospects, now people want to sell, funny

  39. The Phillies are 4 games under .500, 5 back of the hated Mets AND they have Washington and Atlanta ahead of them. Before today’s fiasco, Baseball Reference had the Phillies at 11.3% to make the postseason. Unless they go on an epic run, they’ll easily be sellers way before the July 30 trade deadline. So for all those who are worried that DD will trade prospects for players, it won’t happen this season.

  40. Another question is whether or not Joe Girardi will survive the season. If the Phillies finish say 5+ games under .500, I don’t think he sees a 3rd year.

  41. I like the idea of trading for Donaldson. I would trade away Herrera, Cutch, Hoskins, and Segura for prospects. Bohm too if the offer is right. Harper can play 1B. Let playing time work itself out with Hasely, Vierling, Randolph, and Williams. Simmons or maybe Galvis at ss next year. Didi at 2b.

    Falter to 5SP. Howard to bullpen. Trade Velazquez too if good offer. Do whatever possible to fix bullpen in the off-season. If the 3 OF fail (most likely 2 will), there should be enough capital to trade for wherever the hole would be in the OF next year.

    I’m sick of the horrible BP and defense like everyone else. The lineup needs retooled too.

  42. It’s not hard to understand why the Phillies are so disappointing (and a bit embarrassing). Just look at the production from the five positions players they signed in the offseason (+1.0 WAR) thanks to JT’s (+1.7 WAR), while the eight pitchers acquired during the offseason have contributed a (-0.5 WAR), which includes the (+0.7 WAR) from VV..

    Compare that to the Mets who have been hit hard with injuries. McCann, Lindor, Villar, and Pillar have contributed (+3.1 WAR), while Lucchesi, May, and Loop have combined for (+0.8 WAR). I likely missed a couple of players here.

    Bell, Harrison, and Schwarber have put up a (+3.8 WAR) for the Nats, while Hand, Lester, and Avilan have totaled a (-0.6 WAR).

    Frankly, I’ve run out of gas to look at the Braves, but they have gotten (+1.8 WAR) from Smyly and Morton.

    So for offseason acquisitions, that’s (-0.5 WAR) for the Phillies, (+3.9 WAR) for the Mets, and a (+3.2 WAR) for the Nats.

      1. spin…I think the heat out there in Wash State has got to you…along with the Phillies keystone kops defense.

    2. For the offense, the biggest issue is the lack of WAR from the 4 power positions:

      Cutch: 0.9
      Harper: 1.3
      Bohm: -1.8
      Hoskins: 0.1
      Total -> 0.5

      We’re almost halfway through the season and only Harper is looking like starter level. None of them are playing like elite players.

      Compare this with the Reds who nobody thinks is a good team:

      Winker: 2.2
      Castellanos: 2.7
      Suarez: -1
      Votto: 0
      Total -> 3.9

      What about the last place Marlins:

      Dickerson: 0.3
      Duvall: 1.5
      Anderson: 0.6
      Aguilar: 0.9
      Total -> 3.3

      Plain and simple, the players that are here are not getting it done.

      1. Romus and Guru – Yes, many of the Phillies in the fold have not performed up to expectations, especially Bohm (whom I’d hoped the Phillies would send to LHV nearly two months ago to play LF). The Phillies’ defense is as atrocious as the bullpen.

        My point was that of the 13 players they signed in the off season, they whiffed on all of them except JT (a no-brainer) and Alvarado. Everyone else is at or below replacement level. Not one pitcher matched or exceeded expectations. Where would the Phillies be right now if they had picked up Brad Hand’s option, who has blown just 2 of 19 save opportunities? As bad as they have played, that one signing very likely flips the Phillies record to 40 – 36 and has them at worst a game back of the Mets.

        The sports journalists are now aggressively attacking Joe G, and I am not saying that he is without blame, but has anyone really discussed the failure of the offseason signings? Unfortunately, Howard is getting jacked around thanks to the ineffectiveness of VV, Moore and Anderson.

        Also, speaking of being in the heat too long, since 1883 the temperature in Spokane during June prior to this year has topped 100 degrees only five times. It will match that number this year. So a total of five times in 138 years and now five times in 2021 alone. Right now it is 105 headed for 112 and tomorrow it is forecasted to be 111 before cooling off to 102 for the remainder of the week.

        1. spin…it is mid-90s here in Philly area…..tonight will be a scorcher for the players at the Bank.
          Both the Marlins and Phillies are in funks. Something has to give.

  43. Is this a crazy idea: Trade Wheeler to the Cardinals for Nolan Gorman and Matthew Liberatore. Deal Hoskins and Spencer Howard to the Tigers for Matt Manning. Thoughts?

    1. Tigers have Torkleson coming up to play first…might have to make it a three team deal somehow. But I like the idea.
      Though prefer to put Howard as the closer.

  44. Folks, nobody is trading for a bad-glove 1B who is hitting .224. Nobody.

    Howard: he doesn’t repeat his delivery. His mechanics are different every single pitch. That’s why he folds so quickly. Look at Halladay and Wheeler: same delivery every time. No matter what the pitch is. Howard has 5 different looks for his fastball alone. I can’t believe the org’s pitching coaches haven’t caught this already.

  45. I watched this fiasco unfold and it is so bad, and then listen to the rationale after, and it is worse. JoeG “liked Neftali there against that group of guys.” Why?, he hadn’t pitched in the Majors for 4 years! How about putting him in in a less important situation, like down 12-4? “ Bradley needed a day.” Why? He has hardly been overworked. Brogdon? Neris? How about winning the game Joe? And, the whole pulling Falter thing. If a Pitcher is pitching as well as he was, a couple more batters when he was that locked in is a problem? Is he reading what he should do or actually watching the game?

    1. matt..Falter was at around 65 pitches and he gave up that hit…..maybe they still have him on a pitch count….though I do not know why coming into July.

  46. OK, Romus, let’s go with the pitch count thing. They are supposed to make plans before games, or at least I think so. So, someone said in a close game, 7th inning, and we are winning. The best guy in that situation is Feliz? After not pitching for 4 years? How is that even possible? A great outing for Falter, a heads up play by Luke Williams, RBIs at a crucial time by Bohm, and then blow a game with, not just because the BP blew it, but the Manager makes a move that was just dumb. How demoralizing must the team be if they downright depress me? I can’t even blame overusing analytics because no analytics could have possibly come up with Feliz in that situation. It was like throwing a dart at a board while blindfolded.

  47. I must tell you, I don’t see the attraction to Spencer. People are enamored by his stuff which doesn’t translate into sound dependable performance. A starting pitcher who can’t go 3 innings and is on a pitch count for the year like he is developing or recovering from injury.

    The minors are for development, aren’t they? Aren’t we trying to win up here? I don’t get it, I haven’t seen a wow from this guy all year. I have seen a FB that disappears (mph), a curve that either isn’t thrown for strikes or gets hit. My take is I want a person on the team I can use, not someone I have to coddle, this team needs performers ……..or maybe, not really!

    Body of work…..21 innings…..18 hits……..16 walks……….14 ER……ERA 5.87 and a guy who might give you 3 innings every 5 days.

  48. There are two ways to rebuild, Trade the vets for good prospects, who are a yr or more away, but you must have a good team of people who can judge good talent, which i dont know if we have that, or wait out the bad contracts and hope some of the kids plus couple of moves, makes us playoff team, I think Wheeler can get you Bichette type, a top of rotation arm is the most coveted player you can have,

    1. rocco….the one guy getting it more or less together of late is Cutch……in 2/3 weeks the Phillies may be able to move him……I pretty much think Gabe would take him out there.
      You probably cannot expect a top 10 Giant prospect…maybe a return in the 10-15 range Giant prospect.

  49. I talked to my buddy who’s a Blue Jays fan. Obviously he likes Wheeler, but he’s not giving up Bichette.

      1. That’s a good one! What he’s willing to give up is anybody (2-3 players) in the Jays farm system, nobody is untouchable there.

    2. I wouldn’t insist on Bichette but they have I believe 3 very solid middle IF prospects Martin being my favorite and he is probably pretty close to MLB ready.

      I get what y’all were saying about Wheeler coming here and his wife being from the area and I wouldn’t want to do him dirty like that. I’d have a conversation with him though and let him know

      “hey man things are NOT working out obviously and its not your fault but we have to retool this thing. We can try and move you to a team built to win now if you want”

  50. People getting a little carried away w the hoskins hate. He’d certainly have a market.

    Honestly, best way for the phillies to improve defensively – the DH comes next year. Bohm to 1st (or maybe left?), hoskins to DH. Sign one of the SS’s in FA. DD and Segura at 2nd and 3B. In two years, it’s Stott at one of those.

    Or this year – find someone to take cutch (eat money and maybe get a B level prospect since he’s coming around). Bohm to LF and trade for Galvis. Though rhys is still in the field in that scenario. DD at 3rd.

    Regardless, the DH is gonna be helpful

    1. Hoskins’ market is going to be limited to AL teams, and the Phillies won’t get much (like a decent lotto ticket).

      The DH will definitely help. I’m thinking Vierling in LF, Williams at 3B, Bohm at 1B, Hoskins to DH.

      Not sure why you want to trade for Galvis when Torreyes and Maton are capable players.

  51. I don’t get the Bohm to LF talk. We saw that movie before with Hoskins and he actually played some left in college. They are not trying that under any scenario during this reg season.

    Now maybe they send him to a winter league or something to work on it but its not happening this season.

    Also whoever the Phillies guy is responsible for defensive shifts….that guy suxs

  52. I know Hoskins is inconsistent at the plate, and poor defensively, and he frustrates me. But, why does anyone think that the better option is Bohm at 1B? I have no idea if he could be good there defensively, or in LF. And, if we are getting the DH, why is Bohm a better DH candidate than Hoskins. Hoskins has a lot more power. I happen to like them both, and want to trade neither, but why is Bohm viewed as a better player than Hoskins? And, I know it’s fun to speculate, but I am not trading Wheeler. You know what we would get? The 2021 equivalent of Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Vicente Padilla, and Travis Lee. Or the bunch of nothing we got for Cliff Lee. We are terrible at trading the established player. I build around the keystone that we have. 3 good to excellent SPs, Harper and Realmuto. No thank you on tearing the whole thing down.

    1. Matt I’m trying to understand why you believe past regime trades are relevant to what a trade by this FO might look like?

    2. In general, the team that trades the established player will likely lose the trade because of the bust factor involved with the prospects involved. Or in other words, I’m trading no risk for more risk. But without risk, there’s no reward so it doesn’t mean you don’t try.

      1. Guru…correct, most of those multi players for star player tend to work better for the team gaining the superstar…in the short term at least.
        Cliff Lee was a throw in in the Bartolo Colon trade way back 20 years ago, with Sizemore and Phillips…..but the prospects tend to either not develop as hoped or they develop down the road…on yet another team , like a Justin Smoak.

    3. Matt, I understand what your points are and your sentiments on building.

      Personally, I believe that Bohm is much more athletic than Rhys and in the games I’ve seen him play at 1B, completely adequate. Doesn’t have to throw as much, better reactions to the ball than Rhys, footwork is better, better reflexes, better speed. I think his best position.

      Never seen him in the OF, don’t know, very well could work, good arm, adequate speed.

      Don’t like him at DH, just doesn’t fit my image of a DH. I think Bohm is viewed as a more complete player than Rhys because Rhys is so poor defensively and that is who he is, he’s not going to change.

      1. Thanks skeet, I was unclear. I was just comparing them as DH material, and prefer Hoskins because of his power. We are definitely going to have to try to see Bohm at a different position, and I would prefer not to trade either one, but I do know changes are going to have to be made. Like you, I don’t see Bohm as a DH. He certainly should fare much better in LF than Hoskins did.

    4. I think Bohm projects as the more consistent threat and he’s shown signs recently of breaking out of his sophomore slump.

      His last 7 games: .318/.348/.455
      His last 14 games: .325/.357/.425
      Last 28 games: .333/.359/.387

      meanwhile Rhys:
      His last 7 games: .103/.212/.241
      His last 14 games: .160/.250/.440
      His last 28 games: .133/.220/.344

      Bohm needs to show more consistent power but if he can fight out of that horrible start to the year I think he’ll grow a lot as a player and a man and be a great foundational piece.

      For me Rhys hot and cold streaks are absolute killers. Even if there’s a DH next year I’m not convinced they can’t find an upgrade out there… or if he’s going to stayt he really needs to be hitting like 6th or 7th in the line up. He can’t keep hitting 2nd or cleanup. Heck I’d consider retaining Cutch for the DH spot next year. You look at next offseason you have the following 1B/DH candidates whom I’d consider:

      Kyle Schwarber
      Corey Dickerson
      Anthony Rizzo
      Brandon Belt
      (and obviously Freddie Freeman but I can’t see him leaving ATL… I’d go after him though if he would).

      I think a lot of Bohm’s issues at 3B might be settled by playing 1B. Less throws, less opportunities. I think based on defensive runs saved Hoskins and Bohm may be the worst 1B/3B tandem.

  53. I would trade some players for sure, and given that there are some reports from a toxic environment in the locker room, pretty much explains that this team is not working as one.

    Has anyone noticed how during our walkoffs, players from different ethnicity tend to celebrate with their own?, it does not look good.

    1. There was some chatter about the vax and how some guys were for it some were against it too… they certainly aren’t a “Team”, regardless of the HR hat and what things look like. There was that hope years back with all the young guys coming up at once that they would finally have that “Team” feel since the guys all spent a lot of time together in the minors… now it’s just this hodgepodge of personalities and bad performance… a few more weeks and they’ll all be planning their fall golf plans

  54. DMAR, good question. Partly, emotional scarring from the past. But, all joking aside, I have not seen Dave Dombrowski be the GM who trades a Wheeler, and gets that organizational changing talent in return, that jump starts the next era of good Phillies Baseball. He is a guy who acquires talent for now, often at the expense of farm system depth. We have very little. TB has always been good at that type of trade, we have not, and based on what, does anyone think that changes now? So, the past regime mistakes have made me dubious, sure, but I believe DD was brought here to field a Playoff team. I don’t think he is presiding over a tear down, and I don’t think that is his strength. I could be wrong, and I have been wrong before, but if trading Wheeler and Nola and asking Harper to waive his no-trade, and whatever other moves that allegedly will get great talent in return are going to happen, the team will need a different guy making the moves. And, that might be 2 years from now, but Dombrowski has not been allowed to do Dombrowski things yet.

    1. Again Harper is not an asset you’re going to move to get this team back on track. DD’s best tradeable assets for premium talent are Wheeler, Nola and JT

      Yeah he’s gotta try to move some other guys if he can just to change the chemistry but those guys aren’t likely to get much more than a lottery ticket.

  55. It’s tough decision time. This is the way I see it, for what it’s worth. You either fully rebuild (unlikely due to middletons mindset), you retool (sell assets off & buy them in FA) or … you have Middleton double down and go over the luxury threshold to throw obscene money at the problem. Hopefully he bought a lot of Bitcoin. The last solution I have is a combo – retool, sell off our assets to get pieces back now as part 1, the rebuy similar assets traded away + buy more FA to go over the luxury tax barrier.

    That’s the position they are in, because they don’t have enough prospects to sell off to fix their problems, and they can’t buy their way out of the mess without approval from Middleton to go over the barrier.

    So, I’ll end it all with … Damn you Trout!!! You were supposed to come home to prevent all this! 🙂

    1. Wait a minute…unless he turned into a Colt fan……he still has season tix to the Birds at the Linc…isn’t that good enough!

  56. Speaking of Trout … remember some of the Trade proposals back then .. that we thought was too much:
    Hoskins, Kingery, Sixto, Herrera, and some other s … lol that trade would look awesome for the Phillies!

  57. Agree with Forrest. Rhys Hoskins would draw plenty of attention on the trade market. That’s why I think DD will probably deal him before the start of next season.

    Also agree with DMAR. Bohm to LF has never made sense to me. Like it or not … 3B is his best position. He should be fine at 1B also.

    1. Bohm is not good at first base because he hasn’t hit enough. He may be a good option there several years down the line, but you need a big bat at first and at DH – right now, Bohm isn’t even league average at third. Look, I believe in him, but in the immediate future, he’s a liability at first or DH. The only logical place for him if you move him off of third is left field.

  58. I think I’d rather make a mistake on a trade for prospects than I would on an iconic FA sign. I mean the Angels did it once with Pujols and then turned around and did it again with Trout LOL.

    Ya think the Yankees are feeling good about the Cole sign?

    I’m not saying never hand out a big contract but wow make sure you do it at the right time and for me the right time is when you’ve built a solid core of young guys that are getting you pretty deep in the playoffs.

    1. I wonder if Yankees fans are thinking about tearing down the team and trading Cole, Lemahieu, Stanton (good luck).

    2. DMAR……do like the Bums and Freidman…..4 years….big bucks AAV….avoid anything over 4 years length.

  59. I guess the Marlins kicked off trading season by sending Dickerson and Cimber to the Blue Jays for Panik and reliever prospect Andrew McInvale. The Blue Jays need reliever help and looks like Marlins want to clear a spot for their guy Jesus Sanchez.

  60. Since the trading season is officially under way … would you do either of these deals?

    Phillies get … Josh Donaldson, Hansel Robles, and 8M.
    Twins get ….. Logan O’Hoppe, Kendall Simmons, and Kyle Dohy

    Donaldson is 35 YO and owed 51.5M dollars after this year (21.75M in 2022 and 2023 + an 8M buyout for 2024). Robles is under team control for just the remained of this year @ 2M prorated. The 8M given to the Phillies would cover most of the rest of Donaldson’s salary in 2021, and keep the Phillies under the LTT this year.

    Like I posted yesterday … Donaldson is a DUDE. He is a team leader, and (other than this season) he has won everywhere he’s played. He’s the type of a guy who could shake things up, and help change the culture here. Robles isn’t a lock down closer, but he does have 7 saves, 12 holds, and just 2 blown saves.

    .

    Or would you do?

    Phillies get: Raisel Iglesias (under team control only thru the end of this season)
    Angels get: Jamari Baylor and Gunner Mayer

    Iglesias is a proven commodity. He’s averaging 14.2 K/9 and 1.9 BB/9 this season, and has 14 saves in 17 opportunities. If this team had Iglesias since opening day, they might be in first place today.

    1. I do the latter.

      As much as they could use Donaldson, their biggest problem is the lack of a closer. Baylor and Mayer would be an acceptable risk for that type of trade. That said, I don’t think the Angels would do this trade. They go for it every year and, in part because of that, they are on the same bad mediocrity cycle as are the Phillies.

    2. Hinkie….Iglesias….and then try to resign after the season.
      With Donaldson there would be a Bohm/Hoskins bottleneck/log jam going on to get ABs and positions to play..

      1. I’d do either, or both. This team is built to win soon. The rest of the division is average. Wheeler/Nola/Eflin are all healthy this season. Harper/Realmuto/Hoskins are all healthy right now. Odubel has solved the CF problem. Segura and Didi look close to returning.
        Donaldson would be an upgrade at 3B, and lend a loud bat to the middle of the lineup. Bohm would split time between 3B and 1B the rest of 2021. This winter, the NL will almost certainly adopt the DH.
        The Phillies have lost 7 games in last ABs. Three were to the Mets, one to the Nats, and one to the Braves. A guy like Iglesias might have the Phillies in first place today.
        And last, but not least … the Phillies have the easiest remaining strength of schedule in MLB. I think DD will make moves to compete. I don’t see him selling in July … unless this team just absolutely tanks over the next couple of weeks.

        1. Hinkie…for the remainder of this year……you will lose ABs for both Hoskins and Bohm with Donaldson’s bat in the lineup..
          I do not think they will want to deprive Bohm and Hoskins of max ABs.
          And mixing it up between the three will really not let any get into a comfortable rhythm.
          And you want to obtain Donaldson for fulltime work…at least 9 out of every 10 games .

  61. The only guys on the 25 who I could see traded are Cutch and Segura. Both are veterans and are playing well now. At the same time I could see A ball prospects going to a team like Texas for pitching, as long as the pitchers are signed for next year at least. There will be moves coming….

  62. If Bohms best position is 3b I would be looking to trade him at some point. No team will win a championship with him at 3b or probably even first base. He does not have the glove for the infield. First baseman has to bail out other infielders.

  63. Time to blow this thing up. Trade (or otherwise delete) the following: Realmuto, Hoskins, Gregorius, Segura, Knapp, Herrera, Nola & Velasquez. Keep McCutcheon for veteran presence. If you can’t get good prospects, get money because you are going to need it. For the remainder of this woeful season start: Marchan(C), Bohm (1B), Maton (2B), Torreyes (SS), Williams (3B), McCutcheon, Vierling & Harper (OF). Move Falter in to the rotation along with Suarez. Start playing small ball with Maton, Williams & Vierling at the top of the lineup. Maybe you give Stott a shot in September if he continues to do well at Reading. Then you should have an idea how many people might be usable from the current roster and how many free agents you have to buy. Goal is to return to winning baseball in 2023.

    1. Maton, Williams & Vierling could be exposed if required to play full time.
      I guess if yuo give for this year…doing that cannot hurt anything…they get experience, and the teams gets a better draft pick…a win-win so to speak.

  64. I think it is much bigger than trades and even making right draft picks. this organizations ability to develop baseball players is beyond abysmal. It’s impossible to have this many players in minors and not have people who can catch a baseball know how to make adjustments at plate throw an fing strike or not strike out so many times.

    We need to trade owner. Nice guy but no clue how to run baseball organization

  65. Segura is back and surprisingly Howard went down. So by default, I guess Falter is in the rotation.

    1. It’s about time (for Falter to be in the rotation, not for Howard to be demoted necessarily)! If the Phillies go somewhere this season, Falter will be a big part of that. We are so mired in the frustrations of this season (and there are many) that we are not seeing clearly just how good he is and could be. His ascendancy is a BIG development.

        1. Based on what? He’s handled the pressure just fine so far. There’s nothing in his big league resume to suggest he isn’t up for the challenge based on pressure.

          1. He is a bit of meaningless information.
            Bailey Falter and Trevor Rogers were born in the same year 1997…7 months apart.
            Falter (April) being the older one.
            Falter was drafted in 2015….Rogers was drafted in 2017.

    2. Guru…..personally i would send down either Neftali or EDLS….and put Howard in the pen…preferably empower him and let him close, with Alvarado, in pressure situations for the remainder of this season.
      If they want, they can stretch him out next spring for starting purposes…
      .

      1. I’m assuming that Howard is headed back to Lehigh’s rotation. But come ST, I’m not handing a rotation spot to Howard. He’s going to have to earn it, hopefully battling Cristopher Sanchez for it.

  67. LOL. I’m watching the Phillies pregame show. It’s amazing how quickly/easily these guys (Barkhan/Kruk/Davis) jump on Odubel. They’ve spent 10 minutes crushing Hererra for not getting a good enough lead off of third base in the first inning of last night’s game. The lead wasn’t good, but he wasn’t going to score on that ground ball anyway. OTOH, not a single criticism of Harper for not hitting the ball to the outfield to score Odubel on a sac fly. 😕

    1. Yeah, amazing how many times with one out and a guy on 3rd, you get a K and than a fly ball to deep center for the 3rd out.

  68. I was done with Vinny after his last start, and I am very happy to be wrong. He pitched great tonight, and deserves a ton of credit. I just wanted to admit I was wrong, and now hope the BP doesn’t blow it!

  69. Ohhhhhhh yeah, Barnum & Bailey couldn’t put on a better show than MLB. Let’s check the sweat on the forearms ——— how hot is it today?

      1. Nick Pivetta was looking like he was starter level, but he’s reverting back to the person we all saw when he was in a Phillies uniform. His numbers are very close to VV’s.

          1. Also, in Pivetta’s 6 wins the BoSox staked him to 50 runs (8.3 PG avg.). I was going to say we could look good with 8, but than I remembered our bullpen, so not.

  72. Ok so i’m trying to figure out where i’m wrong on an opinion I have . . .
    I posted on twitter that so far Wheeler has to be the best FA pick up the Phillies have ever made. I’m talking about on field performance, not performance in regards to how much you make. Anyways, somehow Halladay’s name came up (not sure why considering he was traded but anyways), and I made the comment that, SO FAR, Wheeler is out performed Halladay. And if Wheeler continues at this clip or even if he slides back a little bit (say ERA around 3.25-3.50) in year 3-4-5, he would have been a better pick up than Halladay, period.
    Am I wrong here? Try to not let everyones love for Halladay get in the way of this, I loved watching him pitch as much as the next guy, he’s a generational talent (and is greatly missed).

    Btw i’m not saying he’s an overall better pitcher than Halladay, he isn’t. I also get that Wheeler is pitching at ages 30-34 while Halladay was 33-36.

    1. Wheeler’s first 27 games as a Phillie……..5.9bWAR
      Halladay’s first 33 games as a Phillie…….8.5bWAR

      Perhaps Wheeler can make up the difference over the next 6 starts, but as of now in the present, I see Roy Halladay as more productive….by the WAR metric.

      1. rocco…c’mon man!
        Just because he was the da man to help the team win it’s first ever World Series ring since their existence in 1883, doesn’t mean he is the beat FA pick up……or does it! 🙂

        1. Still see that popup he caught off Boone miss, screw negative numbers, he taught that team how to win

      2. If we are talking Rose, 3 of the 5 years he spent in Philly he produced negative WAR (1.7 and 3.1 were his 2 positive WAR seasons).
        What was interesting/funny is the same person who argued for Halladay asked me how many WS rings Wheeler has won . . . . the same as Halladay. If you look deeper into the numbers Halladay vs Wheeler, they are closer than one may think. Halladay bests him in some categories and Wheeler bests Halladay in others.

        1. Funny does you numbers tell how great he was, hustled all the time saved, boone on Critical play in W,S. Funny but the announcer who Said geeks with number are ruining the game was right

    3. I would agree, he is the best pitcher in red pinstripes stuff wise that I have ever seen, it’s so fun to have a power pitcher painting the zone.

      1. Then you never saw Carlton, Hittting carlton is like eating soup with a fork

  73. the phillies have excellent depth at only one position in the farm system, catcher. this is where they can trade some young talent to get some pitching help. losing an o’hoppe or duran etc would hurt but could bring back something useful.

    1. I think Marchan will have greater return value than any of the catchers now since he has already proven to be a major leaguer.

      1. i like marchan as the back up catcher next year. knapp is well thought of in the club house but is just average behind the plate and is hitting .175. he will cost more next year and is not worth it. marchan right now is a much better catcher and i believe will hit more. has good bat to ball skill, although no power. he will be very cheap and represent a significant saving over knapp.

        better to offer younger, lottery ticket catchers as trade bait.

        1. Problem is…..’better to offer younger, lottery ticket catchers as trade bait.’….you get nothing of value in return. You can put them in a package deal….but how far they move the needle is questionable.
          Opposing GMs want MLB ready players….not prospects 2, 3 or 4 years out…they already have them in their systems.

          1. don’t agree, an o’hoppe or duran could be attractive to a club without catching prospects in their system. the phillies lack talent in some position areas and they are not alone. in the right package you could get a decent relieve pitcher from a selling club. we will see. catching is the only surplus position in the system.

            1. Virtually every team has catchers in their top thirty prospects.
              Check it out…here are ten teams you can write off, who will not bite on those A ball catchers in the Phillies system: They all have catchers listed as better prospects than any of the Phillies’ catchers in their organization..
              https://www.mlb.com/prospects/c/

              The other twenty , if you have the time, you look thru their ‘Top 30 By Team’
              https://www.mlb.com/prospects

        2. Completely agree, I thought Marchan would be the back up this year, but DD wanted depth this off season.

      2. JT needs to step up and be the player they gave a big contract to…

        I understand the injury to start but he was playing well once he started and since April he’s been virtually non-existent in the middle of that LU

  74. I have to give Vince Velasquez credit. He really does appear to have finally progressed as a starting pitcher. He’s had a few mediocre outings, but he’s had a ton of good ones over the last 10 and if he’s your 4th starter, you’re in really good shape. Add Bailey Falter as the 5th and they have a truly formidable rotation.

    1. Sorry…Jim Salisbury is writing Matt Moore may be the 5th.
      I tend to agree…..Falter should be given the opportunity to be the starter…ride the wave until it crashes…he has the hot arm right now.
      If and when he comes down to earth and teams adjust, then try something else.

      1. It’s not just that Falter is hot, he’s better than Moore now and would appear to have even more upside. But the Phillies keep doing Phillies things including not deviating from their plans, no matter how much evidence accumulates showing their plans no longer work.

        2. Or perhaps Dombrowski would rather not expose Falter to better lineups since his value is rather high right now. Yes, Falter does deserve to be given the 5 spot in the rotation over Moore, HOWEVER – timing is key. The deadline looms a month from now, and the young lefty may be appealing to prospective trade partners.

          1. It’s more likely that the Phillies want to showcase Moore to other teams. It makes no sense to trade a young, MLB ready starting pitcher. Those are things that bad teams do.

            1. Maybe, but those are things Dombrowski does if you follow his history, for better or worse.

          2. I’m loath to think that because the division hasn’t pulled away that DD would actually believe this club has a chance to go deep in the playoffs. Closer or no closer.

            I guess an anomaly could occur the way it did in 08 for the Rays (the Phillies no doubt were best in NL)

        3. I don’t care if the sign said “Bridge Out”, I’m going down this road come “hell” or “high water”!

        4. Still think they are trying to limit innings for guys who didn’t have a minor league season last year. Falter wasn’t at the alternative site last year if memory serves so he threw very little in the last 15 months.

          Same reason it appears that relievers are not being used in back-to-back games and so many guys are “unavailable” from night to night.

  75. Article I just read has Taylor Rogers, Iglesias, and Rodriguez from the Pirates as possible Closer targets for us. I don’t know what or where the Angels will be come the end of July, but the other 2 are definite possibilities. I think that DD tries to add a Closer, at the very least. Alvarado can’t close, he is way too erratic. Thankfully, Herrera hit the 2B in the bottom of the 8th, or that would have been another blown Save. We can’t add a Closer fast enough.

    1. So the Angels had last years MVP actually had him for a while and may very well have another and different MVP but will still be sellers at the deadline…

      I take some solace in that as I watch how mismanaged my favorite franchise is.

      1. Yeah, everyone can take solace that they aren’t the Angels. It takes a special kind of ineptness to have the undisputed best player in baseball (and in the discussion for greatest of all time) for a decade and make the playoffs… once. Especially since he wasn’t even expensive for most of those years.

        Beautiful place to play/watch baseball, though.

  77. I expect a little more than Nola blowing a 5-2 lead and failing to finish the 5th inning!

  78. Why is Neftali Feliz still on this roster!!! This team can’t hold a lead and another random thing I’ve noticed that I think could be contributing to that, which hasn’t really been discussed here, is how poorly Realmuto has been calling games. The other night he called 3 breaking pitches in a row and by the third one, the hitter knew it was coming, sat on it and jacked it out of the park. It makes no sense why Nola would have 11Ks in 4.2 IP and still get shelled.

    2. LOL I remember a week ago someone posting that they better call him up before he elects FA and we lose him….

  79. Girardi has now inserted Feliz into high leverage situations in both of his first two MLB appearances since he last played in the majors 4 years ago! Nobody gets on base for Harper. Realmuto who’s supposed to be the best catcher in the game is struggling on both sides of the ball. This team is doomed and it’s completely unwatchable at this point.

  80. Hard to believe an ex-mlb catcher, now manager, has no idea when to pull a pitcher.

  81. The professional sports team with most losses in history. Why are you guys acting so surprised with all the stupid things they do. Ultimately a reflection of ownership

  83. There are a number of relief pitchers on loosing teams that have been effective this year. The Twins actually have 4 pitchers I would consider and none would require a major prospect. Robles, Tyler Duffey, Taylor Rogers or Caleb Thielbar would be welcome additions. The Tigers have Cisnero and Soto who have pitched well and the Pirates have Rodrieguez and Stratton that should be considered. Got to believe we can make a couple of moves soon.

  84. Well … that was another frustrating game. But … the truth is … it was just one of those games where everything went right for Miami. They must have had at least a half dozen bloop hits/little dribblers that all found space, and led to runs. Meanwhile, Odubel/Segura/McCuthen hit three balls that traveled ~1200 feet in the 6th & 7th innings that were all outs.

    Joe Girardi is another story. What would make him think choosing Netali Feliz for another high leverage situation would be a good idea?

    1. I mentioned this to my dad the other day. Girardi wasn’t my first pick for manager, but I figured he would be fine and would placate the Philadelphia fans and media.

      Boy has he proved me wrong. Not only has he made more questionable managerial decisions than I (and many) would deem acceptable, he also just outright lies to us. He seems to have absolutely no sense at all about when to pull players, when to rest players, or when to juggle the lineup. He went 40+ games with Cutch leading off batting below .200. And he finally moves him down… and Cutch starts mashing. Now I won’t say that Joe should have seen the move would kickstart Cutch (if it did)… but HOW do you justify FOURTY THREE GAMES of a .199 average in the leadoff spot? As for pitching, he cannot for the life of him identify when to pull a pitcher. Time to let your pitching coach take over that duty.

      I’ve always been pretty forgiving and even defend managers (I defended Kapler quite a bit for a long time on this site), because I think their impact on the game is overblown. But my lord, even I am exasperated with this man.

  85. I am not excusing JoeG, at all, I have been less than thrilled with the job he has done. However, had we claimed Brad Hand, no Long Term contract, not trading away prospects, just money, we would be in 1st Place, despite awful Defense, inconsistent Offense, lack of situational hitting and all the other issues.

    1. The BP may need an exorcism. They brought in some good track records and that’s just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

  86. Phillies worst defense in the majors….DRS…negative 34.

    Bottom feeder teams have bad defenses….play-off contenders, mostly all have positive DRSs……WSox are an anomaly it appears.
    Rockies and Marlins are a surprise near the top of the list in positive DRS .

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=11,d

  87. DMAR, I think, and may be wrong, that a genuine Closer, had one been added, would have help some of the other BP guys. Neris, I think, would be better in the 7th Inning. A number of the blown Saves came before the 9th Inning, but just counting those, a Closer, Like Hand, like Hendriks, makes a huge difference. Romus, a question, and I am going against what I wanted in the off season, and that is re-signing Didi, would the signing of Simmons, or our old friend, Freddy Galvis, have been a better move? Would their D have helped Bohm in any way because I am not suggesting that our worst defensive player is Didi, but Simmons and Galvis have more range. Or, wouldn’t that have helped much at all?

  88. Matt Gelb reporting there should be som more BP changes. Feliz, DFA’d, DLS sent down, Kintzler activated, and JD Hammer added. Not official yet.

    2. DD decisions on Veteran players in hopes of winning now are making Joes decisions what we see. Taking a 30 Year Old , not in the league since 2017, 1M guaranteed to a offspeed LH who flip/flops thru 5 innings but could barely get AAA players out. Supposedly Joe taking notes, why the indecision on who’s available in BP?
      2 years of managements indecision on Howard, keep him or send him to AAA, what’s Best for the player. Or Use him in the BP (2 inning guy or high level short ?guy)
      For a team, supposedly adapting to statistics why don’t they or want to see what everyone else sees.
      #1 Prospect who can’t perform, maybe Prospect means potential.
      Not using a BP pitcher because your worried about being successful in high leverage situations or inning usage, Miami, Mets when used against Dodgers and SF success?
      I’m under the understand that Each Level Staff is or s/b writing reports, sending data/stats to ? To give progress or input on players, hince innings, leverage and batting info.
      IMO

    3. IDK Matt I mean the Mets got Diaz a few seasons ago and he was awful for them at first. Not too bad this year. Kimbrel was bad for the Cubs and now he’s good again.

      1. Relievers are a crapshoot, I know, and I thought David Phelps was a real good pick up last season. But, Hand was just a waiver claim, $10M for 1 year, and I thought worth the chance. He has pitched very well this season, so I am not using 20/20 hindsight, I wanted him at the time he was waived.

  89. On The Athletic, and I just re-checked. Not official, but Gel states “The Phils Will make some Bullpen changes today. A possible scenario if to DFA Feliz and send down De Los Santos, and activate Kintzler and add JD Hammer.”

    1. I still think they should move Howard to the pen for the remainder of this season.
      An inning, maybe two if called for, every other day should be enough for him to handle. Put him in pressure situations. Have him close, if need be.

  90. What’s most frustrating to me about Joe G is his apparent loyalty to veteran players, especially arms. It’s as if he’s got to shake every last ounce of usefulness out of them before he’ll trust a fresh young pitcher. Now, what I don’t know is whether he’s been told that the kids are restricted and his hands are tied, but this was a criticism he’d also gotten in the Bronx before he departed.

    Segura and Wheeler are the only merited all stars on this team, and there’s nobody else who’s remotely worthy of consideration, even by default. This coaching staff is in its 2nd season. The fruit is quickly rotting. And the painful truth is that there is no apparent leadership in the clubhouse. Only a handful of nice guys or colorful personalities. The chemistry is unhealthy. That’s also within the manager’s scope of responsibility.

    .500 ball for how many years now? Mediocrity is the purgatory of pro sports. And the Phillies are the picture next to the definition in Webster’s illustrated. And to make matters worse, the face of the franchise is already breaking down in only his 3rd year in red pinstripes.

    Ultimately, and unfortunately, the culprit at the end of this flick is John Middleton, who hired Andy MacPhail, who hired Matt Klentak instead of Chaim Bloom who’s already reaping a harvest from what looked like ashes in Boston.

    The argument over Kapler vs Girardi is irrelevant at this point. And who’s gonna fire the owner. Things are pretty bad when the only silver lining is that the division is weak. But a bad baseball team is a bad baseball team.

  91. No argument, the MacPhail led rebuild was a failure. It’s official, Feliz DFA’d, Kintzler reinstated. I haven’t heard about Part B yet.

      1. Yeah, but I was excited by Feliz DFA’d. I wanted to give him a bus ticket out of camp the first exhibition game this year. But did management listen, noooooo.

    1. Matt Gelb mentioned it as “unhealthy chemistry” in a recent article, and it has been talked about around here.

    1. Yes, Frank. Bauer is a great talent, but he is nothing but trouble. I was hoping he signed with the Mets last winter.

      1. Yeah, I’d rather he hurt a team in our division. But let’s dream: Phillies have a second great half and make the playoffs. Play Dodgers whose starting pitching is thin absent Bauer and the Red Caps carry the day.

  94. I watched the last two innings of the Mets-Braves game last tonight, and I saw some eerily familiar plays that we Phillies fans can relate to.

    The Braves scored three runs in the first inning and take a 3 -2 lead into the top of the ninth (they were unable to add on – sounds familiar). Dominic Smith leads off the top of the ninth for the Mets and homers off Will Smith to tie the score. (Blown save – that has a very familiar ring to it.)

    In the bottom of the ninth with the score tied at 3 – 3, Heredia hits a soft ground ball to Seth Lugo, who throws the ball away allowing Heredia to take second. (Pitchers not making the throw to first is all too familiar.) Panda grounds out but moves the runner to third. (Okay, situational hitting is not somethings we often see.) Kevan Smith strikes out. (There were three Smiths in the game.) With two outs, the Mets intentionally walk Ronald Acuna, who promptly takes second on defensive indifference.

    Lugo now needs to get Inciarte with Freeman on deck. However, he loses Inciarte to load the bases. (A pitcher not making pitches and walking batters is a script we’ve read over and over again.) Of course, Freddie Freeman hits a ball off the glove of Lugo, Heredia scores and the Mets lose even though the Braves did not hit a ball out of the infield.

  95. Something occurred to me this week after posting the idea of trading Wheeler…DD was on the other side of the Sale trade, which worked out extremely well for both sides.

    Moncada is a stud. Kopech is a really good, young pitcher who is dominating right now. They are two young, controllable studs.

    Wheeler isn’t Sale, but he is close. He is locked up for 3.5 more years at a really good price. And his currents season is on pace to be more WAR than any Sale season when he was on the White Sox.

    A comparable trade would be Wheeler to Padres for CJ Abrams and Mackinsie Gore.

    Or to Toronto for Austin Martin and Nate Pearson.

    Imo DD realizes this team is not just a tweak away from contending. He wants MLB ready players like what he gave up for Sale. That allows him payroll flexibility to add in off season too.

    Wheeler is awesome. I love having him. He is our best pitcher. But we need to remake this roster. Not just tweak it.

      1. All the proposals sound good…Dodgers could also be in on it…Dusty may is done for the year…..and they have plenty of prospects….maybe even Lux, plus a pitching prospect
        Friedman likes the shorter contracts, Wheeler is now considered relatively short with less than 4 years left.

    2. I take offers for Nola before Wheeler. The former’s contract status opens up a wider trade market, unless one trade partner has a well stocked farm with a “can’t miss” prospect – in which case I make Wheeler available. Unfortunately, DD has little else to deal from. Segura and Hoskins may get some bullpen help in return, but little more than that. And I don’t trade any of Abel, Stott, the 2 Garcia’s or Rojas. All others are on the table, but for what?

      1. …and I would only include Casey Martin in a package for a TOR or bonafide closer.

      2. If you want to instantly load your farm you have 3 assets from which to do it. Nola, Wheeler and JT

        We’re always quick to pick out the big names on prospect lists but back when we were looking to do the Giles trade I kept bringing up Teoscar Hernandez. He was probably in the 10-12 range of Houston’s prospects at the time and definitely below Fischer

        Well we all know how that deal worked out. What a year or two later the Astros and Jays swap Ozuna for Giles and some how Toronto gets Teoscar as a throw in.

        SMH

        1. The only way JTR gets you serious young prospects is if you significantly pay down his salary. Or maybe try to deal him for an established closer.

          1. I mean that’s pretty easy to do Mark. You can take back a salary or kick in the money needed. Obviously though you only do that for something you view as primo.

            I’m not suggesting we move guys for the sake of moving them.

  96. v1, I love your posts, and respect all of the knowledge you bring. I don’t think the team is there yet. I get the holes, I get the problems, but I don’t think Dombrowski has started making his moves yet. Does 2 more years of failure trigger it, sure, but I don’t think that Middleton is there yet. I don’t think we trade our best Pitcher, and assume Gore, or whoever, is as good as Wheeler, and you may very well be right, but a simple thing like, had DD been hired before Hand was put on waivers, we may very well have claimed him, and be in first place. I can’t get past that. Sorry!

    1. Just speculating on the trade stuff but I don’t even blink if I can get Abrams and Gore for anything we have on our MLB roster not named Bohm

    2. You may be right. I am just speculating. Obviously, I have no idea what DD is thinking. But I would be very surprised if he really thinks this team is a few bullpen pieces away from truly contending.

      1. I agree that we are more than a couple of BP pieces away from true contention. I am a bit hung up on not claiming Hand, then hiring Dombrowski afterwards. But, a good Closer has us in 1st Place in our Division, so the Playoffs is a good place to start. We need other moves beyond that, though, and I full acknowledge that. I also see a major trade coming. I just think that if we trade Wheeler, then there is no reason not to have a total rebuild, which means trading Nola and Realmuto as well. I don’t think the organization as a whole is there yet, and I know I’m not excited about another rebuild either.

        1. I don’t agree that trading Wheeler means a total rebuild. I think if we get the right pieces, it could position us to be really good next year. Trading wheeler frees up a lot of money to re-build in off-season.

    3. And thank you for the kind words. I try to provide candid takes even if they are not fun to read or contrary to popular opinions.

  97. Toronto is deep in middle infield prospects so I’d pay close attention to them as a willing trade partner. Obviously they lack a true front line MLB starter.

    Abrams seems blocked with Tatis signed for the next 13 years but then up the middle players can usually move around the diamond quite easily.

    It’s not the Rays MO to make that type of move IMO. But again my premise all along back to the offseason was to try and trade Nola for a few of these names.

    These things are difficult to discuss because you never know what is realistic until it actually happens.

  98. Callis, Mayo and Dykstra scouting report on Bryson Stott:

    “The Phillies’ top draft pick in 2019, Stott made quick work of High-A ball this year, earning a promotion to Double-A after just 22 games. He’s shown his advanced approach at the plate and his pop at both levels, with a combined .275/.405/.497 line with nine homers while playing solid up-the-middle defense.”

    1. I like Stott I see no reason why he can’t be starting the middle of next season. I do really like a deal with Toronto and for one of their Middle IFs. They have 3 really good ones 2 are close Martin and Groshans

      1. Dmar if you really want to read about Stott, you should subscribe to Romus newsletter, really good reading on prospect, i keep hearing Martins name, why is he so highly regarded? his numbers aren’t great, if i am looking at the right guy

        1. LOL Rocco ok I’ll do that. Martin is a boom or bust guy. He showed decent pop in college in the SEC.

          Good Athlete maybe he can move around. 3rd round pick so not much to lose if he doesn’t become anything.

          1. I like Martin’s ceiling as a SS/2B/CF utility guy, especially with the DH imminent in the NL, and with trips to the IL so widespread in today’s game.

    2. I was looking at Stott’s stats recently and I really really like what I am seeing.

      The first thing that jumps out is the exceptional walk rate. He also has a good Power numbers for a young player with a good walk rate. His K rate isn’t great but it is fine. He doesn’t hit the ball on the ground much. And he seems to spray it around a bunch. All good signs.

      Personally I am not sold that he is a shortstop. But even if he moves to third or second I like the bat.

      1. Yes, IMO he is a future 3b with the “IT” factor. Lefthanded pop at the hot corner is a valuable piece to build on.

      2. A player like the one Stott projects to be – solid middle infield defense, .270/.350/.450 – are players around which championship teams are built.

        For all their faults, since 2018 the Phillies have drafted quite well in the first round (yes, I’m including Bohm, I expect him to be a very good hitter in the next few years).

          1. I know, right? It’s crazy. Ryan Howard and Rhys Hoskins and Bailey Falter and Matt Vierling. It’s why I hold out some hope for Baron Radcliff – who hasn’t hit for an average yet, but has shown decent power and the ability to draw a LOT of walks.

            1. Yep…..I need to do some research on the other team’s 5th round picks over the last 10/15 years.
              I am wondering in the Phillies case, at that juncture of the draft……around the 125th pick and beyond, the GM lets other members of his staff make a selection based on their scouting notes.

  99. Bottom line for me is that I’m throwing the towel in on this season. Looking to shed as much payroll as I can. Look to add as many prospects as I can. And look to change the dynamic of my locker room.

    There will always be a Wheeler type out there to be had a Nola type to be drafted and so on.

    And he!! it may all blow up in my face but my word it can’t be any worse than what we’ve endured since Halladay went down.

  100. In a vacuum, yes … rebuilding/retooling would be a wise decision. The MacPhail/Klentak rebuild was a failure. It got lapped by the ones in Atlanta, San Diego, Chicago (AL), and Toronto. This edition of the Phillies is a top heavy club stuck in the middle.

    However … you don’t hire 64 YO Dave Dombrowski to tear it all down.
    This franchise wants to/needs to get to the postseason. Most fans don’t look at the club’s long term health. They want to see/buy tickets to watch a contender. Dombrowski recently told Jim Salisbury, “Ownership, John and obviously the Bucks, wants to win.”

    IMO … DD is more likely to build around this core, than trade from it. I know they have been brutal to sit through (again) this season. However … when you take a step back, and gauge the entirety of 2021 (not just what has already transpired, but what is ahead), I just don’t see this team’s decision makers giving up.
    Now, I know anything can happen over the next couple of weeks …. but … at this minute, the rest of the NL East is very average. The Phillies rotation is healthy and performing well. Some will point to Nola’s struggles, but he was brilliant vs the Mets, and IMO he was more a victim of bad luck vs the Marlins. The middle of the lineup (Harper/Hoskins/JTR) has yet to get hot. Those three will more than likely heat up soon (fingers crossed). Didi and Jean Segura are back. And the Phillies (very important here) have the easiest remaining schedule in MLB. They’ve still got 6 games with the Pirates, 7 with the DBacks, 4 with the Rockies, and 3 with the Orioles after the trade deadline when all those squads will have dealt most/all of their best veteran players, and will be in complete tank mode.

    Aside from the obvious glaring need for a closer, I still believe this club needs a shakeup to it’s chemistry. Not saying they have a “toxic” chemistry. Just saying they have a need for a leader. They have to add a GUY who demands respect within his own clubhouse, and from the opposing clubs’ dugout. I posted earlier Josh Donaldson could make a huge impact here. He’s a DUDE. He’s won everywhere he’s played: Oakland/Toronto/Cleveland/Atlanta/Minnesota. Right now, he’s rotting on a last place team (for the first time in his career). He’s 35 YO, and is still owed 51.5M dollars after this season. That means he won’t cost an arm and a leg. Alec Bohm needs a mental health break, and a mentor: Josh Donaldson! Beginning next season, the NL will almost certainly be using the DH. Donaldson/Bohm/Hoskins (if he’s still here) would rotate between 3B/1B/DH.

    1. Then why not Hoskins for Donaldson? Even up. Hoskins fits the DH role at a much cheaper price and younger. We take JD’s money, age, and allow him to mentor up and coming talent. Bohm, Stott…and yes, the DH option in play in 2022.

    2. The Phillies win % is closer to the Pirates than it is the Dodgers. Adding Donaldson and a closer (which will cost you Stott) is not going to close that gap. DD knows this.

      I disagree on the first sentence too. Dombrowski is a big ego. Imo he would LOVE to completely rebuild this team and be in a position in two years to be seen as the savior. I don’t see him recommending a few band aides. I am not saying he is trading Wheeler. But imo he is going to sell veterans for young pieces and salary flexibility.

      1. v1 – I hope you’re right. I hope he does a dump and quick re-load, the way the Yankees and Red Sox do when they are having down years.

        That said, I don’t think he will. I think Middleton wants to make the playoffs this year if they are anywhere within shouting distance. And so I think he will add payroll and trade younger players for older players who give them a chance to make the playoffs this year – and continue us on our non-stop adventure in mediocrity.

        But goodness, I hope you really are right and he sells, promotes prospects and re-loads for next year. That’s obviously the best strategy.

      2. Small steps. Worry about the division (not the LADs). Make the playoffs for the first time in a decade. The Phillies are a business. They need to stay relevant.

        Also … Raisel Iglesias is not going to coast Bryson Stott. Last summer, Trevor Rosenthal was dealt for Edward Olivares and Dylan Coleman, Neither was a Padres top 15 prospect. Coleman wasn’t even a top 30 guy.

        DD takes his orders from Middleton and the Bucks. I believe they’re not looking to rebuild.

        Yes. Dombrowski will make big moves. I’ve been on record predicting he’ll probably move Hoskins (this offseason). I think he’s way more likely to build around Wheeler/Nola/Eflin than to trade one. And if he does trade one (and I doubt he will), I think Eflin is the one most likely to be dealt.

          2. Wow Romus the last time you said that something intrigue you,. was at the Weight Watchers meeting with Big Betty

            1. Betty is now flirting around now after the meetings…can hardly contain her.
              What can a guy do!

              pic.twitter.com/UIZpyxbFCe

        3. I respect your POV. Always love your takes. But I greatly disagree that our focus should be how we can squeeze into the playoffs anyway we can. That is a recipe for long term mediocrity. Personally, I take no greater solace in a first round playoff exit than having a top 10 draft pick. Imo both of those seasons are the same. No participation trophies for the MLB playoffs. You either have a real shot (top 4 team) or you need to build to get there.

          This team has a negative WAR for their resellers as a whole group. 3rd worst in all baseball. I don’t think adding one good reliever changes our trajectory much. We need several good relievers. But even with that, we still have significant other issues. Mortgaging future MLB players to hope to beat the Mets for the NL Wast and lose in the first round is not very appealing to me. But that may be what the do.

  101. catch, I understand the way you feel. But, where is the re-loading for next year coming from? We trade Wheeler and we lose our top SP, and you don’t win without one. So, whoever they get has to be an All Star caliber player by next year, and, we then also have to go buy a TOR in FA? I don’t think either of those 2 things happen. Trade Wheeler and, with a lot of good luck, get back an All Star caliber player and a mid-rotation SP for 3 years from now. In between, there is no need to keep Nola and Realmuto. I think the choices are either add now, plus a Dombrowski off season trade of some magnitude, spend some more money, or enter into a total rebuild.

    1. Reloading…in theory, Wheeler and Cutch’s exit savings is $44M….so a SP has to be signed, and from this crew this seems to be the best of what will be available in free agency……take you pick.

      Chris Archer (33)…Dylan Bundy (29)…Alex Cobb (34)
      Zach Davies (29)….Anthony DeSclafani (32)….Danny Duffy (33)
      Kevin Gausman (31)….Jon Gray (30)….Andrew Heaney (31)
      Clayton Kershaw (34)..not really
      Jon Lester (38)….Michael Lorenzen (30)…Jordan Lyles (31)
      Lance Lynn (35)….Steven Matz (31)….Charlie Morton (38)
      Daniel Norris (29)…James Paxton (33)….Jose Quintana (33)
      Robbie Ray (30)….Garrett Richards (34) ….Carlos Rodon (29)
      Eduardo Rodriguez (29)….Max Scherzer (37)….Drew Smyly (33)
      Marcus Stroman (30)….Noah Syndergaard (29)….Vince Velasquez (30)
      Justin Verlander (39)….Michael Wacha (30)….Alex Wood (31)

      1. …grow arms, buy bats. I’d rather not go the veteran free agent pitcher route, Romus. And the ones worthwhile cost too much in prospects…which we don’t have enough of.

        1. …it’s early yet but I’m high on the futures of our 2 top lefty prospects in Miller and Lindow.

          1. GMs always seem to like to have that veteran presence somewhere in their rotation ….free agency would be the easiest way to do that.
            I would avoid any free agent pitcher that has a QO attached to them however.

            When it comesto LP prospects…Miller is probably on a faster track to the majors than Lindow.
            MLB.com has him ETA as 2022….Lindow is also the same date, 2022, but I have my doubts now since he was dropped a level from AA to High-A last month. So he may need a longer period of time in the minors.

  102. Well Romus, that is exactly why I don’t trade Wheeler. How about if we get a little lucky, like the Giants, and sign a Gausman who gives us a year like he is having? I think we are ok with SP, it’s the BP, and Defense that are major areas of needed upgrades. And, it would be nice if Bryce stays on the field, and starts to carry a team, and Realmuto picks it up. No shortage of players to be critical of, that’s for sure.

    1. Thor or Jon Gray could be ready to come on…..not sure what the Mets plan to do with Thor…he had a slight setback I heard last month.

  103. Dombrowski = no sell off at this time. He really hasn’t even had much of a chance to decide what he thinks he needs. Maybe couple middle of road moves this July and then he will make some significant subtractions and additions this winter. Take a shot next year. That means draft a college arm who may help second half next year. If you make playoffs next year and wheeler and Nola are on game u have a shot in a playoff series

  104. Mets reportedly have had preliminary talks with Minnesota about Donaldson.

    1. Well … I’m glad somebody is paying attention to me. I just wish it was DD instead of Sandy Alderson.

  105. Unless Middleton is ready to go over the payroll threshold … and begin the clock, I don’t see the Phillies being anything other than sellers at the deadline. They are far to inconsistent. Trade Nola or wheeler, get young position player back, preferably who can hit and not be a butcher in the field. Then go into FA, reacquire a front line player or two and trade assets to pick up other pieces. It’s the best play given the options. Having a closer would be nice, but it’s really going to suck when the closer does his job, and the defense gives extra outs out in 9th, after giving up what little assets we do have to falsely compete. This team has major holes, and some of them are multilayered. Middleton needs to come to grips with this, and sell bs buy. Sell efflin,vv, Hoskins, cutch, segura, neris, and possibly Nola or wheeler. Then tell him to get his wallet ready for FA

    1. Tac3………..multilayered(?) expound. Are you saying those with two or more warts don’t belong in the major leagues?

  106. I agree Phils inconsistent but doubt anyone is selling off some of their best players when their 4 games out of playoffs and they just hired a GM whose mo is helping teams get over the hump

    1. In fairness, 4 games out is not really accurate. Last I looked the Mets had 6 games in hand. That could easily turn into 6 or 7 games … possibly even 10 games out. Its important that the FO be honest with the team and all it’s short comings. Now, in defense of the team, and trying to put a positive spin on it… the only real rationale for buying is that they have been injury prone/bug. To me it’s not enough, I’d sell. I’d love to be wrong but …

  108. Infield of didi 3b, Torreyes SS, Segura 2b. Mcuthen/ Hasley LF. Tinker with Bullpen. Next year Dombrowski does what he does.

    Or start another 5 year rebuild. You guys are trolling right.

    1. DiDi and Segura are getting older and have been injury prone. I could live with one but not both as full-time players. A definite thumbs down to the LF combo. Haseley has proven nothing and can’t be counted on. That is his track record. I would think of bringing back Cutch if he would accept a role as a part-time player. Very unfortunate that they have had four first round OF’s (I consider Ortiz a 1st rounder due to his 4.2 M signing bonus which would make him a high first round pick) and they have gotten nothing out of them.

  109. Mets track record similar to Phils so not sure where u assuming they will keep winning

  110. SSDD……..might as well sell Wheeler, we don’t have anyone in the pen who can close out a really good performance. Sell, sell, sell!

  111. Seriously, this is pathetic! A Closer is an important part of the team! This is on John Middleton! Another W lost because of the BP! A great Wheeler game, 3-0 over a very good Padres team. Another blown save! $10, lousy Million for Brad Hand, and Mr. “ I will die trying to win, I want my bleeping trophy back” John Middleton is full of crap. Beyond aggravated, sorry to vent to you guys, but enough. You failed rebuilding John, you iwe the fans a Playoff team and you wimped out.

  112. For eight innings, that was their most impressive game of the season.
    Defense was really good.
    Base running was smart.
    Strike outs were down.
    Wheeler was phenomenal!!!!!!!
    … and then the BP got in the way again.

    In the end … it was an exciting win against one of the best teams in baseball, but it once again highlights Dave Dombrowski’s most important chore: find a damn closer!

  113. I am glad we won and watched until the end. It in no way changes my opinion. We have 21 other blown saves and most we didn’t salvage. We need a Closer tonight, not July 31, and with one there is an actual chance to win this Division. At least, I want us to try!

    1. Agree with needing a closer NOW! DD should make a trade immediately and not wait until the deadline. I would go after BOTH Rodriguez of Pirates and Iglesias of the Angels or any other closer available (maybe Kennedy from the Rangers) as our current bullpen clearly has NO closer.

  114. 4 more blown saves and the 2021 Phils will break the franchise record for blown saves in a season.

    If they put their mind to it, they can get the record by the all-star break.

  115. At the end of 2019, which is, what, a bit over 1 season ago, here are final team records: Phillies 81 81 Giants 77 85 Padres 70 92 Braves 95 65 Who can remember their mindset at the end of 2019? If at the end of 2019 you were given the option of trading every player on the Phillies for every player on the Giants, Padres, or Braves, which if any of those teams would you have done that with? Now, two years later thoughts might be a lot different…. doesn’t that mean a turn around doesn’t have to be 5 years?

  116. Wait a minute, I(Heart), didn’t MacPhail and Klentak tell us we had the quickest rebuild in the league’s history?! What happened to that? And, both are still employed by the team.

    1. Hey Matt13. That wasn’t my gist pro or con. My gist was that by their records in 2019 the giants and padres were very bad and the Phillies were the definition of mediocre. Now 1.5 years later two of those 3 teams are doing very well. That is quite a transformation in record over a short time. More so, I don’t think in 2019 too many PP readers would have chosen to exchange rosters with the Giants, and likely not the Padres. Boston also has made a huge increase in winning percentage, and it did not take 5 to 10 years. There are definitely significant positives this year for individual players but that gets lost in the distress of the overall record and self-inflicted wounds. That was the point of my comment.

  117. Wheeler, by the metrics, with a WAR approaching 4, is second to deGrom….and more than likely a finalist in the running for the Cy Young.

    I believe trading him , as was speculated yesterday, may actually bring back more in return value, than what had been suggested.

  118. Not you, too, Romus! If we trade him, where is the TOR we need coming from? You just posted the list yesterday. Thor, coming off injury, maybe Stroman? Guys go where they get paid and can win. We have to overpay some other guy, pray he is as good ad Wheeler, and also hope and pray that whoever we get for Wheeler is actually as good as they are purported to be. Dom Brown was once the #1 ranked prospect in the game. Why can’t we just try to get a Closer, and see what happens, before we go into another rebuild?

    1. matt……say the Dodgers make a bid for him.
      Kershaw will be 35, and is a lifetime Dodger…so he will give them a nice hometown discount, maybe 2 or 3 years AAV $20/23M.
      Friedman then can work Wheeler into his budget for three more years.

      Now I think the return can be very profitable from the Dodgers.

      1. The front office’s dilemma between what ought to be done and the perceived pressure from the fanbase mandating a push for a playoff berth. Shame. Wheeler’s value may never be higher than it is now, and this roster is nowhere near legitimate contention. Yet will he merely be the jewel of an otherwise weak pitching staff on a team with little hope for relevance until he no longer commands a pretty substantial return? Hard for many of us to accept.

        1. Touche……in two years he will be gearing to walk again into free agency, or even dreadfully, could become the equivalent of a 33-tear old Jake Arrieta.
          Teams on the cusp now, like the Blue Jays, Rays and a perennial play-off team like the Dodgers may be willing to pay a very hefty price for hiscontrol for the next three years.
          Phillies can still sign a free agent pitcher
          The other decision they need to make…is Vinny for real and worth a 3 or 4 year commitment. There will be teams out there that will give him a one or two year deal to see if sustains his current level of production.
          Would he settle back here on a 2-year deal?

          1. Romus…as for VV, I’d package him for whatever I can get. He’s had flashes before which only proved to be fool’s gold. Trade him now…I’d rather be wrong about him when he succeeds with another team that gives me something decent in return than keep him only to be fooled again.

            1. If Howard was performing well in the rotation, I would have given serious consideration to trading VV. Now, VV is only getting traded if the Phillies are out of it.

            2. Trading Vinny now….a rental for two months….gets you one prospect…..and who knows the caliber of that prospect.
              You cannot trade him this year for international ‘funny money’ either since that has been put on hold…..and also Competitive Balance picks in Rounds A or B.
              OTOH, and if you don’t resign or QO him…both risky alternatives in of themselves, and you let him walk….nothing is gained.

          2. VV likes the Phillies, but money talks. If some team offers VV 3 years, $20M, I don’t think the Phillies want to match that, especially if the Phillies want to re-sign Eflin. I think VV walks.

            2. VV is going to get a Taijuan Walker type deal – 2 years, $20 million – they should either trade him now or let him walk at the end of the year.

  119. Let’s get this out of the way. Yes, trading Wheeler will net the Phillies a monumental haul. No, it won’t happen. If Wheeler goes, everybody has to go, including Bryce.

    Do the Phillies need a closer? Yes. But no team is going to give up their closer now when the trade deadling is still 3+ weeks away. There will be a bidding war for the closers. Unless the Phillies want to substantially overpay right now, like say Stott for Raisel Iglesias. I’m sure the Angels would agree to that.

    1. What are you expecting from a closer this year anyway…2nd place, at best, in the East….that may still not get a play-off berth.
      The West will get three teams in the play-offs.

      And trading Wheeler, why does that mean Harper needs to be traded?

      1. Harper and his contract would hold no appeal for most MLB teams. He’s already showing signs of wear and tear. He’ll be serviceable as a 1b/DH in coming years, albeit at an albatross salary. Trading him, even should he be agreeable, would involve paying down so much money that it would defeat the management of payroll constraints.

        Having said that, the current climate of MLB doesn’t prohibit financially viable teams from turning the ship around in rather short order. But right now, finding takers for the more attractive pieces is the way to go…and more than likely the way the Phillies won’t.

      2. Harper is not here to rebuild. I’m sure the Phillies sold him on that when he was a FA. Harper is here to win as a Phillie. Trading Wheeler will send the rebuld message to everybody else in that clubhouse. JT is also not here to rebuild. They signed here to win. Again, and I can’t stress this enough, this is not fantasy baseball where you can trade players and think that the clubhouse is going to be ok with it. If Wheeler goes, the clubhouse is going to riot.

        1. This is a business…..and winning is the goal.
          Are they winning?
          If Harper does not like it ..and wants to be moved, then oblige and try to move him.
          Other teams have moved their ‘superstars’…Betts, Sale, Price, Longoria, Lester, Verlander ……ho one is above the team.
          The culture right now….is not appropriate to winning.
          .

  120. So, at what point can we, as fans, demand that the team produce a winning team? How many more years of rebuild is acceptable? Trade Wheeler, take 100 Baseball analysts and have them list their Top 50 prospects. If a team has 2 off that list, pretend we get both in that Wheeler trade. Are we a Playoff team? No one knows. It is still a risk. Are the chances that 1 of them is a TOR very good? I would say no. Meanwhile, had we added Hand, and I am sure most of you are tired of me mentioning him, so pick any legitimate Closer we could have added in the off season, and we would be in 1st Place in the Division, and talking about what we can add at the deadline. And, mark, that is legitimate contention in my opinion. Are we as good as the Dodgers? No, but we have a fighting chance with our SPs in a Playoff series. At least that is a step. To me, trading Wheeler, no matter what the return, is still a 2-3 year process, which means there is no need for Nola and Realmuto. So, in essence, another rebuild. I can’t argue that Wheeler’s value isn’t high. I also can’t argue that signing Bryce Harper when we did not have a good enough base of young players, and trading for Realmuto were prudent. I was happy with both, however, and I still want to see what Dombrowski can do without another tear down. And, to me, trading Wheeler is a teardown, regardless of what fantastic trades we can imagine.

    1. Dombrowski was here when the Phillies passed on Hand. You can blame that on Middleton if you want and you may be right, but that can’t be blamed on Klentak.

      The fact that the Phillies may (or may not) be in first place with Hand (or any other closer) is irrelevant right now. Opening game isn’t tonight and the Phillies record is not 0-0. I am against giving up any quality young kids for a closer that may or may not eke the Phillies into a wild card. I have my eye on the big prize, a World Series win somewhere down the road. Qualifying for a wildcard once every ten years means nothing.

  121. NL, I believe that Dombrowski was hired after Hand was claimed on waivers. Please let me know if I am wrong, but Hand was put on waivers on Oct. 28th, I believe, and Dombrowski was hired on December 11. I remember asking if DD had been hired first, would he have claimed Hand? And, I know we are in July, and the season isn’t just starting, but my point is that is how close we would be in a Division race had we not punted on acquiring a Closer, so I don’t feel the need to rebuild.I think adding a Closer, even at this point can win the Division, not eke out a WC spot.

    1. matt13…but Hand did not sign with the Nats until the last week in January 2021.

    3. matt 13 – I think you were right originally when you said McMillan wouldn’t pay 10 million for Hand. At that point it was still up in the air if there would be any fans allowed to watch the games.

  122. Trading Wheeler now would bring in a haul. With his money added to Herrera’s and McCutchen’s, the Phillies could sign a very good starter (not as good as Wheeler) and some good pieces for 2022 if any still want to come. That might make sense.

    If they resign VV to a new contract, he will be tormenting us for the next 2-3 years like he has been for the past five. Maybe he has turned the corner as Romus writes but what if he hasn’t? They can trade him and STILL resign him, too, if they choose.

    Not making excuses for Alvarado or any other closer but expecting any closer to get a one inning “plus” save is tough. They don’t like pitching the eighth, sitting, and then coming out for the ninth. Girardi could’ve used someone else to finish the 8th.

    And finally, the Phillies home run leaders are Hoskins (17) and Harper and McCutchen (13). Moffo’s Uncle Ceasar has 13 and JPCrawford is batting 291. Not saying we should’ve kept them: just saying they seem so much more comfortable away from Philly.

  123. had my family down at the game last night (only 22k on a friday night with your ace going against a great team is pretty terrible)- as Hinkie said above, for 8 innings that might have been best all-around performance of season-
    so we are sitting there trying to figure out Joe’s plan is to finish the game- and I’m still at a loss to figure out what he was thinking, though i realize he doesnt have much to work with.
    Even though there was no game thursday, were Neris, Brogdon, Bradley all unavailable?
    bringing in Alvardo with 2 outs and nobody on in 8th just seemed strange- let him try a 1 inning save before we start expanding on that- and then another lefty, without real late inning experience, is up behind him?
    They really needed to win it there in 10th before Machado and Tatis got to hit again. Funny, we all thought Miller had hit a homer, and were confused when the scoreboard showed a 4-3 final.
    But instead of an encouraging win, it was just a reminder that this team has no shot.
    On the way out, an usher was yelling “Does anyone know a closer we can sign!?”

  124. Put yourself in Dombrowski s shoes one of the better GMs of his generation. U trade ur ace to a contender. You miss playoffs by couple games because ur division is so bad. That ace continues to pitch way he is now and team wins 6 of 7 games he pitches in playoffs. Not the way I think he would want to cap his career.

    1. Patso….yes very risky business.
      But there will be a point of no return at some time in July….where the Phillies are continuing to be mediocre or they get hot on a long winning streak.
      Then I think he could make that decision.
      With the added play-off teams, the deadline should have been extended to mid-August.

      1. Romus m8 after watching that game last night,, I crunched together all the numbers, figure out the final total, and came to the conclusion that i am fat, boy i feel better, and this bullpen is the cause, makes me eat more watching them,

        1. Yep…this bullpen is ‘from hunger’ as the expression goes….and makes us that much hungrier.
          Sometimes I wonder about Joe G. and what he does with that bullpen….I bet he is using that laminated BP reference guide that Gabe forgot to take when he left.

  125. Has there been any update on Randolph, I know I read on twitter that the injury could be season ending or at least that he would be out a while but haven’t heard anything in a while.

    Also noticed Billy Sullivan hasn’t pitched a bit, 6-23 is the last time, just wondering if they are just giving him a bit of rest.

  126. Phillies get: Griffin Canning (or Reid Detmer) and Jo Adell, lower SP prospect
    Angels get: Aaron Nola and one of Hammer, Llovera, Jones, etc etc)
    Who says no?

    I’m a Nola fan but kind of hard to pass on Adell. This would help and wouldn’t make it a long term rebuild but a re-tooling. Granted, you have to replace Nola but in 2022 you now have your CF and another rotation piece. You also don’t have that money on your books if you want to go and try to replace him in the FA market.

    I think the Angels realize that they are ruining the prime of Trout, Ohtani, and Rendon because their pitching sucks. Throwing Nola in their rotation helps quite a bit.

    1. If the Angels want to win, they would do that deal in the offseason. Even with Nola, the Angels are not making the playoffs this season.

      And you know that Jo Adell has been terrible at the big league level? There’s no guarantees with him. Trout is out, Upton is out, Lagares is negative WAR. Why is Jo Adell not up? It makes you wonder why the Angels are keeping Adell at AAA. There’s absolutely no reason why Adell shouldn’t be up.

      1. Jo Adell….over 500 PAs between AA, AAA and MLB, going back to 2018, ….K rate at 31%….he may not be able to hit a curve ball yet.

  127. Sullivan is max effort thrower coming off elbow surgery. Also failed a certain type of test while in school. Lotta ifs

  128. Ready to watch the game on FS1. Because of the rain delay, they moved the game to FS2. I don’t get FS2. What am I missing?

  129. Hinkster – Thanks for the HR videos. Up here in Storrs I get NESN, YES, and SNY.

  130. Hmmm second time Bohm slid incorrectly at home. This time got call right. Wt….

    1. With the new rules about blocking the plate guys should slide headfirst at home. Hard to slide and keep that front foot from bouncing over the plate

    2. That is another thing Rose did great for the guy who said he had negative numbers, Headfirst slide, wonder if that shows up in ops or war or all those geek numbers, THE WORD HEART,

      2. rocco….speaking of Pete Rose….Cutch’s next stolen base ties him with Pete with 198 SBs and 361st on the MLB career list.
        When Cutch gets 6 more to get to 203….ties him with Mike Trout.

  131. Just want to post this before we get to the 9th inning … (and I have not been drinking tonight).

    I think Hector Neris might be the Phillies best bet to throw the ninth. The NL East teams abuse him because they see him a lot, and know what’s coming. The Braves, Mets, and Nats lay off his “splitter” and force him to throw his FB. The Padres don’t see Hector much. They are more likely to swing (and miss at) the “splitter”.
    As evidence: Hector blew the save against the Mets last week because most of the NY batters spat on the “splitter”, and either walked or hit the FB. The one Met who swung wildly and K’d was Francisco Lindor. Lindor had little/no history with Neris.

  133. Might be the best game they played this year. Solid starting pitching, made plays on defense, and added some solid at-bats with risp.

    And the bullpen threw strikes and had controlled innings.

  134. Well, that’s baseball. The overly berated Phillies face not just a very good team in the Padres, but a team that won 10 of their last 12 ball games which included a three game sweep of the Dodgers. So, of course the Phillies win the first two games of the series and now have a chance to sweep.

    I have been in the same camp as matt13 in that, with a competent closer (maybe for now Ranger is that guy), the Phillies, with all their warts, are likely neck-and-neck with the Mets.

    I also believe that the Phillies have a solid run or two in them, which we have yet to see. Something along the lines of the Nationals, who went 19 – 9 in June. Kyle Schwarber, who has been ridiculously hot of late, is out indefinitely with hamstring strain. It will be interesting to see how much that affects them.

  135. And Howard pitches five scoreless innings at LHV with five Ks and only 2 BBs.

  137. Take Tatis, Profar, and Machacho out of the line up and Velasquez had a great day. Nine up and nine on for those three guys.

  138. Wow, Hector is officially cooked. I think he’ll be DFAd sooner rather than later.

    1. I feel bad for me, i wish i could make 5 million in one year and be that bad.

  140. Happy 4th of July to all of you! We don’t always agree, but I have enormous respect for the guys who post here regularly, and a great deal of gratitude for Jim. I hope everyone has a great Holiday with their families.

  141. Slash and peripherals not seen everyday….from the Baron.
    ….165/.418/.322…..K-31%….BB-29%….ISO-.157..BABIP-.237…wRC+ 118

  142. I don’t know what the team record for solo HRs is for a year, but we ought to have a real shot at it.

  143. Well Hinkie, I was on board with your Neris theory before. But methinks the Padres disagree.

    1. Nevis has stretches like this every year where his splitter goes flat and he get hammered. One reason he’s not a closer and should be non-tendered in the off season.

      Can do better spending $5m on bullpen arms.

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