The hot stove season continues, but there has been little action on the trade front.
The Phillies tendered contracts to their arbitration eligible players and announced some additional changes to the major league coaching staff. They also announced a lot of front office promotions and hires.
Shohei Ohtani has finally posted and has identified the some of the teams he has and hasn’t interest in.
The Stanton situation has moved to a new level of discourse.
Teams prepare for the Winter Meetings next week.
Organizational News and Changes
The Phillies tendered contracts to Freddy Galvis, Cesar Hernandez, Mauikel Franco, Cameron Rupp, and Luis Garcia. The five players represent the only players who are arbitration eligible this off season. Todd Zolecki broke the news Friday.
Mark Appel and Alberto Tirado cleared waivers and were outrighted to Lehigh Valley. Zolecki broke that story early last week.
The Phillies announced separate stories that Mickey Morandini and Dick Allen will be team ambassadors and a bunch of promotions and hires within baseball operations. A lot of the new hires were scouts who were trained at the Complex this summer. One notable hire is Corinne Landrey. The former writer/managing editor at Crashburn Alley was hired as an R&D analyst. She had interned in the same role for the Phillies last season.
The Phillies will be announcing the hiring of Yankees bench coach Rob Thomson in the same role for manager Gabe Kapler. They also announced Friday that Rick Kranitz will be their pitching coach and the hiring of Chris Young as his assistant pitching coach. Most recently, Young was a scout with the Astros. I think that leaves just the first base coaching position open. The manager’s position in Lehigh Valley also remains vacant. And their have been no announcements regarding the Phillies’ second GCL team.
Mark Polishuk writes for MLBTR that the Cesar Hernandez (Angels) and Freddy Galvis (Padres) are drawing trade interest.
According to Zolecki, the Phillies will make their pitch to Otani. Considered a long shot, at least the Phillies haven’t been eliminated like the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, A’s, Pirates, Mets, Brewers, and Diamondbacks. Still, the remaining west coast teams have an advantage with the Rangers and Cubs possibility still in the mix. It’s kind of neat to see Yankees fans whining about their team’s early exclusion in the Ohtabi sweepstakes.
And, this week’s Stanton news includes revelations that the Marlins have the framework for agreements in place with the Cardinals and Giants. Stanton’s people have met with representatives from the teams. I don’t know the Cardinals’ offer but an early report I read had the Giants surrendering 27-year old 2B Joe Panik (2011, first round, 29th overall), and their #2 and #3 prospects, and OF/1B Chris Shaw (2015, 1st round, 31st overall) and RHP Tyler Beede (2014, 1st round, 14th overall). My Twitter blew up with criticism of what sounds like a poor return for Stanton.
Several former Phillies’ prospects have found jobs. Williams Astudillo and his meager K and BB rates are on the move again, he signed with the Twins. Michael Mariot signed with the Padres. Joely Rodriguez, Angelo Mora, and Perci Garner signed with the Orioles. Chace Numata signed with the Yankees. Jesen Therrien (2-years) and Pat Venditte signed with the Dodgers. Twenty-seven year olds Cody Asche and Kelly Dugan are available.
Winter ball stats are available here.
The Liga de Béisbol Profesional Roberto Clemente will play a shortened, 21-game schedule with 4 teams beginning on January 6, 2018.
Less than half of 38 players (like maybe 13) are still active in winter ball as you can see by the Last Date column below. Abdullah Aris mad his first appearance this weekend,
|Cabral, Edgar||Nov. 15||GDD||AFL||0.298||14||47||2||14||2||0||0||4||3||13||0||0||0.353||0.340||0.693|
|Green, Zach||Nov. 16||GDD||AFL||0.258||18||62||10||16||4||0||2||6||4||20||0||0||0.324||0.419||0.743|
|Randolph, Cornelius||Nov. 16||GDD||AFL||0.239||19||71||10||17||4||1||0||8||7||20||2||1||0.308||0.324||0.632|
|Campbell, Derek||Dec. 2||CAI||COL||0.247||22||89||5||22||2||2||0||7||9||24||0||4||0.323||0.315||0.638|
|Martin, Kyle||Dec. 2||CAI||COL||0.272||22||81||9||22||4||0||1||9||14||17||1||2||0.388||0.358||0.746|
|Alfaro, Jorge||Dec. 2||TOR||COL||0.333||14||51||4||17||3||0||1||14||3||13||0||0||0.382||0.451||0.833|
|Cumana, Grenny||Dec. 2||TOR||COL||0.274||22||84||8||23||4||0||0||11||4||8||0||0||0.315||0.321||0.636|
|Gamboa, Arquimedes||Nov. 25||TOR||COL||0.214||17||56||2||12||3||0||0||6||7||15||1||1||0.302||0.268||0.570|
|Williams, Luke||Dec. 2||TOR||COL||0.258||22||89||12||23||2||0||0||4||13||25||2||1||0.359||0.281||0.640|
|Alvarez, Eliezer||Dec. 2||ESC||LIDOM||0.150||15||20||6||3||0||0||0||0||4||7||1||1||0.320||0.150||0.470|
|Moore, Logan||Nov. 30||EST||LIDOM||0.148||13||27||6||4||1||0||0||2||4||11||0||0||0.258||0.185||0.443|
|Perkins, Cameron||Nov. 1||GIG||LIDOM||0.258||9||31||9||8||3||0||0||3||5||3||1||0||0.351||0.355||0.706|
|Quinn, Roman||Oct. 22||TOR||LIDOM||0.125||6||16||2||2||1||0||0||0||2||5||0||0||0.222||0.188||0.410|
|Walding, Mitch||Nov. 12||MOC||LMP||0.228||23||79||9||18||4||0||3||10||16||23||0||2||0.365||0.392||0.757|
|Alastre, Jesus||Nov. 5||ARA||LVBP||0.176||13||17||3||3||0||0||0||0||1||4||0||0||0.222||0.176||0.399|
|Vielma, Engelb||Dec. 3||ARA||LVBP||0.176||19||51||4||9||1||1||0||0||4||10||0||0||0.250||0.235||0.485|
|Blanco, Andres||Nov. 30||MAG||LVBP||0.314||36||137||27||43||7||1||3||10||22||30||2||3||0.440||0.445||0.886|
|Gomez, Jose||Dec. 2||LAG||LVBP||0.179||22||56||5||10||0||0||1||5||2||5||2||0||0.220||0.232||0.452|
|Tromp, Jiandido||Oct. 24||MAG||LVBP||0.185||11||27||2||5||1||0||0||2||5||8||1||1||0.313||0.222||0.535|
|Duran, Carlos||Oct. 26||MAR||LVBP||0.250||11||36||8||9||0||0||0||3||3||9||0||2||0.300||0.250||0.550|
|Rivas, Raul||Nov. 8||MAR||LVBP||0.250||12||36||6||9||0||0||0||1||0||6||0||1||0.250||0.250||0.500|
|Brito, Daniel||Nov. 4||ZUL||LVBP||0.273||16||44||3||12||0||1||0||4||4||11||0||1||0.333||0.318||0.652|
|Bettencourt, Trevor||Nov. 14||GDD||AFL||10.13||0||1||8||0||1||1||8.0||10||9||0||3||9||1.63||0.294|
|Brown, Aaron||Nov. 16||GDD||AFL||3.00||0||0||3||0||0||0||3.0||5||1||0||2||2||2.33||0.385|
|Cleavinger, Garrett||Nov. 16||GDD||AFL||6.35||0||1||11||0||0||0||11.1||14||8||0||4||10||1.59||0.311|
|Garcia, Elniery||Oct. 28||GDD||AFL||5.79||1||2||4||4||0||0||14.0||15||9||1||4||13||1.36||0.268|
|Hammer, J.D.||Nov. 15||GDD||AFL||0.66||0||0||10||0||3||3||13.2||4||1||0||7||11||0.80||0.093|
|Campbell, Derek||Nov. 25||CAI||COL||9.00||0||0||1||0||0||0||1.0||1||1||1||1||0||2.00||0.250|
|Brown, Casey||Dec. 22||TOR||COL||2.01||2||1||6||4||0||0||31.1||31||7||0||9||19||1.12||0.258|
|Paulino, Felix||Nov. 25||TOR||COL||3.80||1||1||5||4||0||0||21.1||24||9||1||3||30||1.27||0.279|
|Casimiro, Ranfi||Nov. 7||AGU||LIDOM||0.00||0||0||1||0||0||0||1.0||1||0||0||0||0||1.00||0.333|
|Kilome, Franklyn||Nov. 22||ESC||LIDOM||7.64||0||4||6||6||0||0||17.2||26||15||3||7||17||1.87||0.347|
|Windle, Tom||Nov. 7||ESC||LIDOM||7.20||1||2||10||0||0||1||5.0||7||4||0||4||3||2.20||0.318|
|Garcia, Edgar||Dec. 1||EST||LIDOM||7.11||1||1||6||0||0||0||6.1||9||5||0||1||8||1.58||0.333|
|Dominguez, Seranthony||Nov. 21||GIG||LIDOM||4.91||1||0||6||0||0||0||7.1||7||4||1||7||8||1.91||0.259|
|Curtis, Zac||Nov. 19||LIC||LIDOM||4.05||4||2||16||0||0||1||13.1||13||6||0||6||17||1.43||0.277|
|Aris, Abdallah||Dec. 1||ARA||LVBP||9.00||0||0||1||0||0||0||1.0||2||1||1||0||0||0.20||0.400|
|Rivero, Alexis||Dec. 3||ara/zul||LVBP||9.58||0||2||11||0||2||3||10.1||15||11||2||3||10||1.74||0.333|
|Llovera, Mauricio||Nov. 17||ORI||LVBP||4.91||1||1||11||0||0||1||14.2||10||8||0||8||9||1.23||0.200|
The Phillies’ spring training schedule has been released. Since last week, another date has been added, a March 19th game against Boston at Fort Myers. The remaining two open dates are now being called Off Days, March 6th and 15th.
- Thursday, February 22 v. University of Tampa at Spectrum Field
- Friday, February 23rd at Toronto in Dunedin
- Saturday, February 24th v. Baltimore at Spectrum Field
- Sunday, February 25th v. New York at Spectrum Field
- Monday, February 26th at New York in Tampa (night)
- Tuesday, February 27th v. Detroit at Spectrum Field
- Wednesday, February 28th at Toronto in Dunedin
- Thursday, March 1st v. New York at Spectrum Field
- Friday, March 2nd at Tampa in Port Charlotte
- Saturday, March 3rd v. Baltimore at Spectrum Field (split squad)
- Saturday, March 3rd at Pittsburgh in Bradenton (split squad)
- Sunday, March 4th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field
- Monday, March 5th v. Minnesota at Spectrum Field
- Tuesday, March 6th TBA or Bye
- Wednesday, March 7th v. Boston at Spectrum Field
- Thursday, March 8th at New York in Tampa
- Friday, March 9th v. Pittsburgh at Spectrum Field
- Saturday, March 10th v. Tampa at Spectrum Field
- Sunday, March 11th at Baltimore in Sarasota(night)
- Monday, March 12th at Atlanta in Orlando (night)
- Tuesday, March 13th v. Tampa at Spectrum Field
- Wednesday, March 14th at Atlanta in Orlando
- Thursday, March 15th TBA or Bye
- Friday March 16th at Detroit in Lakeland (split squad)
- Friday March 16th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field (split squad)
- Saturday, March 17th v. Atlanta at Spectrum Field
- Sunday, March 18th at Minnesota in Fort Myers
- Monday, March 19th at Boston in Fort Myers
- Tuesday, March 20th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field
- Wednesday, March 21st at Toronto in Dunedin
- Thursday, March 22nd v. Detroit at Spectrum Field
- Friday, March 23rd at Pittsburgh in Bradenton
- Saturday, March 24th at Detroit in Lakeland
- Sunday, March 25th v.Baltimore at Spectrum Field
- Monday, March 26th at Pittsburgh in Bradenton
- Tuesday, March 27th v. Pittsburgh at Spectrum Field
- December 10-14 – Winter Meetings at the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort in Orlando, Florida.
- December 14, 9:00 AM EST – Rule 5 draft.
- January 9, 2018 – Salary arbitration filing deadline
- January 12, 2018 – Salary arbitration figures exchanged
- January 29 – February 16, 2018 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix, Arizona
- February 13, 2018 – earliest date for pitchers/catchers to report to Spring Training
- February 18, 2018 – earliest date for all other players to report for full squad workouts
- February 22, 2018 – Tentative date for the start of Grapefruit League games
- March 29, 2018 – Opening Day for the 2018 season
- March 29, 2018 – Phillies opening game in Atlanta
- April 5, 2018 – Phillies home opener v. Miami
April 15, 2018 – Jackie Robinson Day
April 17-18, 2018 – Twins v. Indians at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan, PR
May 13, 2018 – Mother’s Day events, all host ballparks
- June 4-6, 2018 – 2018 MLB Draft
June 17, 2018 – Father’s Day events, all host ballparks
July 13-17, 2018 – All-Star Week
- July 17, 2018 – 89th All Star Game, at Nationals Park
- August 19, 2018 – Phillies v. Mets in the Little League Classic in Williamsport.
- December 10-13, 2018 – Winter Meetings in Las Vegas, Nevada
Off Season Transactions (recently reported transactions in bold): (40-man stands at 40)
- 11/27 – Phillies sent Alberto Tirado outright to Lehigh Valley
- 11/27 – Phillies sent Mark Appel outright to Lehigh Valley
11/20 – Phillies claimed SS Engelb Vielma off waivers from San Francisco Giants
11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Franklyn Kilome from Lehigh Valley
11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Seranthony Dominguez from Clearwater
- 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Ranger Suarez from Clearwater
- 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Jose Taveras from Reading
- 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Mark Appel for assignment
- 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Alberto Tirado for assignment
- 11/20 – Phillies sent LHP Elniery Garcia outright to Lehigh Valley
- 11/14 – Williamsport Crosscutters released CF Juan Luis
- 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
- 11/6 – CF Herlis Rodriguez elected free agency
- 11/6 – 1B Brock Stassi elected free agency
- 11/6 – C Nick Rickles elected free agency
- 11/6 – LHP Cesar Ramos elected free agency
- 11/6 – SHP Pat Venditte elected free agency
- 11/6 – RHP Michael Mariot elected free agency
- 11/6 – 3B Hector Gomez elected free agency
- 11/6 – SS Angelo Mora elected free agency
- 11/6 – LF Christian Marrero elected free agency
- 11/6 – RHP Colton Murray elected free agency
- 11/6 – RHP Miguel Nunez elected free agency
- 11/6 – 1B Harold Martinez elected free agency
- 11/6 – C Chace Numata elected free agency
- 11/6 – 1B Wilson Garcia elected free agency
- 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
- 11/6 – CF Pedro Florimon elected free agency
- 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Vince Velasquez from the 60-day disabled list
- 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Jerad Eickhoff from the 60-day disabled list
- 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Zach Eflin from the 60-day disabled list
- 11/6 – Phillies sent RHP Jesen Therrien outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
- 11/6 – Phillies sent CF Pedro Florimon outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
- 11/2 – RF Hyun Soo Kim elected free agency
- 11/2 – LF Daniel Nava elected free agency
- 11/2 – 3B Andres Blanco elected free agency
- 11/2 – RHP Clay Buchholz elected free agency
- 11/2 – Phillies activated RHP Jesen Therrien from the 60-day disabled list
- 11/2 – Phillies activated CF Pedro Florimon from the 60-day disabled list
- 10/30-11/6 – Logan Moore re-signed with the Phillies
- 9/30-10/13 – Ranfi Casimiro re-signed with the Phillies
- 10/13 – Pedro Beato elected free agency
- 10/5 – Kevin Segrist elected free agency
- 10/5 – Ty Kelly elected free agency
- 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent LHP Kevin Siegrist outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
- 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent 2B Ty Kelly outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
- 9/16-29 – Mitch Walding re-signed with the Phillies
- The organization’s rosters are up to date.
- The organization’s injury list retains the injuries at the end of the 2017 season. All are expected to be okay by the start of spring training.
- The organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list is as accurate as I can make it.
Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.
419 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of December 3rd”
Jan Hernandez and Harold Arauz played in the PanAmerican U23 Tornament. Here are their numbers
J. HERNANDEZ in the Puerto Rico team
Click to access ofensiva.pdf
Harold Arauz played for Panama
Click to access pitcheo.pdf
I also see old PP friend Jonathan Arauz is creaming the ball for Panama. The 19 yo is hitting .300/.571/.55 with a 1,1 OPS. It is only 29 PAs but I liked the kid when he was in the Phillies organization.
Sorry, that was .300/.571/.500.
@Bellman, Yeah, I was one of those who was in Jonathan Arauz’ corner during his 2015 season with the Phillies.
Agree bellman – was not thrilled to see a young prospect like Arauz included in the deal. I particularly liked Arauz.
Hernandez 0.273 with 2HR
Arauz beated Mexico and Cuba over 12 scoreless innings.
Totally forgot about 1b coach. Be nice if we got a strong baserunning tutor there.
Freddy would be a good fit for SD. They’re a year away from their future SS Tatis. Their system is fairly strong so we should get a decent prospect, better now than at the trade deadline.
I assume they will not trade both Freddy and Cesar prior to ST.
One probably goes first, then the other possibly at the trade deadline in July, depending on how JPC and Kingery progress..
I don’t agree, I think they’ll trade them both. I think they want to give JP the job with no one looking over his shoulder. Galvis wants to start and won’t be happy on the bench. Cesar has lots of trade value and will get moved now. They don’t want him in the way when it’s time to bring up Kingety in May/June.
So whay you are saying…is that you see them going into spring training with both a rookie shortstop and second basemen….unless they pick up another vet somewhere
Now that will give Kapler plenty to work with..
Veteran 2B or Florimon possibly. Yes that’s the plan I think.
… or they could bring up Alvarez, Vielma, or Valentin from the minors.
Oh yes….forgot about Valentin…and is healthy now.
Agree with you, Romus. A CeHe trade this winter should be the priority. Freddy would start the season at 2B, and then be dealt this summer. There seems to be a lot of smoke to the Cesar to the Angels rumors, Let’s hope Klentak can work a deal (could be multi player/prospect) that nets the Phillies a MLB pitcher (Tyler Skaggs). I might even consider a Jordan Adell + Jose Soriano return.
Not for nothing, but Galvis would be the ideal bench/backup player on the team long term. He can play all infield positions with a really good glove and has a bit of pop and speed but not much of a bat for average or OB%. Hernandez is primarily a 2B who can play SS in a pinch and 3B a bit more. But he (Galvis) very well could be a trade deadline transaction since he can be a free agent and I’m not sure he would want to stay as a backup.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if Samuel gets the 1B coaches job. He was a great base stealer in his day.
He wants the money of a 3B coach, that was the problem previously.
How much could it be?
Coaches don’t get paid as much as you think. I really would like a good base running and base stealing coach. Any ideas?
My condolences to Hinkie, KuKo, 8mark et al:
“Only the Dodgers, Giants, Angels, Padres, Mariners, Rangers and Cubs will receive meetings with Ohtani”
Let’s move on, kick butt and take names at the winter meetings, Romus!
…. although he could have saved everybody a lot of trouble by saying he doesn’t want to play on the east coast. Hope he’s a bust! (Just kidding….sort of)
Agree……I think Jerry Dipoto nabs him.
But tomorrow may be news from the Philies camp.
Braves 12 Latin kids can be officially negotiated and signed come tomorrow.
Lets see what is in store with the Klentak regime
With our gm.? I want what your smoking for Christmas
Romus … Looks like even the Hinkie plan wasn’t going to work. Middleton would had to have moved the team to Portland (then hire Iron Chef Morimoto, Hideki Kuriyama, and sell a share of the team to Masayoshi Son) to stand a chance of landing Otani.
I think/hope he ends up in Seattle. Paxton-Otani would be a great one-two TOR punch. Also, turns out Otani’s main hobby (outside of playing baseball) is sitting at home playing video games. Had I known that, I would have offered my kids as part of the Phillies’ recruiting team.
Also … looking forward to nabbing a former Brave prospect (or two) as early as tomorrow. Kevin Maitan, Yenci Pena, Jaun Contreras, Yefri Del Rosario, and Ji Hwan Bae would all be great “gets”.
Also … with Otani a no go, the Phillies should be using the next couple of years to cultivate a relationship with the next young star Japanese pitcher to probably end up in MLB. 23 YO Shintaro Fujinami https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=fujina000shi was considered an even better pitcher than Otani when they were both in HS.
Phillies should have pointed out to Otani’s representatives that Philadelphia is on the west coast … of the Delaware River. (rimshot)
That’s one down. Now if Stanton accepts the trade to the Cardinals/Giants that will end the other “not coming to Phillies dream”.
We can then move on to trading for Trout….
will go mariners….. better sushi. Oh, and the Seahawks with his guy Baldwin.
Damn… The Indians just signed Michael Martinez to a minor league contract . Did the Phillies lose his number? 🙂
… for the third time … intentionally … they even traded him twice and claimed him back off waivers both times …
I certainly hope that burned his phone number. Now there’s a guy who must have pictures of someone. Amazing that he continues to bounce around..
“they” not that…
Honestly. I saw his name pop up and I instantly started shaking my head.
His new nickname should be ‘boomer’….short for boomerang.
Just wait for when he returns to the Phillies in 2020
As a coach i hope by then.
Ohtani was the longest of shots. Let’s go after someone attainable. Yu Darvish is next on my list. Still hoping to see any signs of Klentak and aggressiveness being in the same room.
Royals are on the verge of a major rebuild. Would love to see the Phillies take a run at Danny Duffy, i think he would be a good fit as a LH #2 behind Nola and he shouldn’t cost as much as Archer.
agreed, he would fit in well
Yeah, I like that move for the right price.
Duffy would be a great get but he’s going to cost you something that is going to hurt a little…
He is 29 years old and is losing velo, up to 3 mph over the last two years, sits now at 92-93…and still has 4 years left on his contract thru 2021 but at a reasonable AAV of $13M.
On the other hand, his peripherals are still excellent….BB/9 and K/9 and average to decent H/9 last season at 8.8…in the AL no less facing the DH.
Phillies should be able to afford getting him with the strength of their farm system.
I do not know what affect any of this will have, but on Aug 27th Duffy was cited for DUI, the case has not been concluded. Next hearing is in January, he has pleaded not guilty, but there is video apparently of him in an intoxicated state, at a Burger King drive through
And just saw this: Oct 3, 2017
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Royals left-hander Danny Duffy underwent surgery Tuesday to remove loose debris in his pitching elbow, and he is expected to resume his normal offseason training in about six weeks. The Royals said that Duffy should be ready for spring training in February.
Duffy has been dealing with minor pain in his elbow for a couple years, but loose cartilage and bone chips had begun to cause inflammation. He landed on the disabled list in late August but returned to make three starts down the stretch in September. Duffy wound up 9-10 with a 3.81 ERA over 24 starts in the first season of a five-year, $65 million extension he signed before the season. He struck out 130 while issuing just 41 walks, and is expected to be the ace of a rebuilt starting rotation next season.
I want any move right now. This guy is like a turtle. so slow to move.
rocco….like George Costanza…shrivels like a freightened turtle! 🙂
Klentak… Tomorrow better be a big day for you … You are on notice! I want at least 2 braves prospects …
The good ones too lol
Gabe meeting with the young guys:
My daughter served them dinner in Center City, but I didn’t get any intel from her. She was surprised at how young the “coach” was (that “coach” was Rhys Hoskins I believe).
Couild have been ‘Kap’ she was referring to…..weaing his untucked, skeychers and bling.
I think Cesar will go as part of a larger deal with one of our pitching prospects, and possibly one of our 4A pitchers, for a decent #2 or #3 major league pitcher (I want Cole but who knows). I think Galvis will go for a minor leaguer or two. I also think Rupp will go for a minor leaguer and I think Joseph will stay on our bench.
Jim Salisbury has reported that the Phils have received offers for both Freddy and Cesar, although less than what the team wants. Salisbury, I think is a very good source for Phils info.. I think that the value of both players is significantly less than what we would hope for. Cesar still has to bring back more because of the control factor, but I agree with Murray that, if he gets traded, it will be as part of a larger package.I don’t get the sense, from reading whatever I can, that to get a #3 SP for Cesar will require more from the Phils prospect wise.My problem is that Cesar will be worth much less next season even if the brass is willing to postpone Kingery for a year.
Perhaps LHP Eric Lauer, could be had from the Pads for Freddy.
matt so lets take less than what Cesar Is worth because next year, according to you he will be worth less. How do you know. He might have a monster year. Other guys can get hurt. As I said before, lets just release him. people on here thinks he is worth a 5th starter or a low level prospect with little upside. amazing.
Alone Cesar might actually get you a #3 starter (but what is that, really?). In a larger, more creative deal, you should get more in return as far as prospects. Assuming LAA is the best trade partner, I like the idea of getting a lefty in Skaggs (as Hinkie proposes) and Garret Richards (who
(sorry for my fat thumb)…is recovering from injury but has significant upside, has one year remaining before hitting the FA market AND also happens to be Mike Trout’s best friend on the Angels.)
….and speaking of Trout, the Eagles are practicing at the Angels ball park this week in preparation for the Rams. Trout hooked them up. We’ll be returning the favor sooner or later. Hopefully this time next year if that CA labor law has any teeth.
This happened in 2014
In a flurry of moves late Wednesday, the Dodgers dealt All-Star second baseman Dee Gordon, right-hander Dan Haren, infielder Miguel Rojas and a player to be named or cash to the Miami Marlins as part of a seven-player trade for left-hander Andrew Heaney, right-hander Chris Hatcher, infielder Enrique Hernandez and catcher Austin Barnes.
They are looking for a short term SS fix and Freddy is a FA after next season. Padres may be a fit. I always liked his glove and his attitude, but the team is ready, I think, to hand the full time SS job to JP, and I don’t see Freddy being happy as a back up.
It’s too bad … Freddy would be the perfect utility player, maybe the best in the league.
Gabe Kapler on this weekends dinner date with JPC and Hoskins:
“Both of those guys blew me away,” Kapler said about his dinners with Crawford and Hoskins. “Those were, ‘Wow!’ Both of them. Incredible leadership characteristics. What’s easy to see is that people will follow them. People will want to be like those guys. And what’s easy to see is that they are going to make really healthy choices. They’re going to make the right choices along the way. That’s evident and clear.”
“I walked away from that dinner saying, ‘This guy can lead now,'” Kapler said. “He doesn’t need any more success. It’s not about being the veteran guy. That’s not what it’s about. He is a leader by example, by the way he carries himself, by the way he thinks and by the way he talks. And it doesn’t have to be vocal ‘rah-rah’ in front of the group. It’s a very unique package, one that I’m not sure I’ve ever seen.”
I’m sorry but this sounds a little over the top if you ask me. Like he’s trying to sell something.
LOL…..you are not alone in that estimation. Guys on local sports talk say the same.
Him and Matty K are polar opposite personalities…Like they say, opposites attract.
I don’t get it. Two years now we’ve heard trade offers were just not good enough for Cesar. Do your job. Sit down and iron out something. At least tell the press you tried for a couple of days, not “they offered, we didn’t like so that’s it.”
Freddy is all glove, no bat. How poor of an offer was really made for a guy who’s a utility infielder? Add Dylan Cozens in with Freddy and see if you can enhance the return. Or make another suggestion.
I’ve never heard this strategy from a team actively trying to unload their players. All we hear is that there is an abundance of second basemen for the second year in a row. I know u don’t want to undersell in Hernandez, but at some point you have to make a move that is palatable with some good upside.
There’s also a point at which they’re worth more on our team than they are in a trade. Have you heard any of these proposed offers, or are you just assuming the front office is doing a poor job? What if the offers are literally just cash considerations?
Can’t argue with anything you said. Make it happen, Klentak.These are not future HOFers we’re discussing here.
I could see Phillies in on a Stanton deal to Dodgers but not to acquire Stanton. Dodgers have luxury cap problems/Phillies have plenty of salary cap room. Dodgers and Marlins work out trade with Phillies getting prospects, international money, or young controllable player(s) plus having either a high priced player going to or passing thru Philly for them to take on salary in exchange. If he is being traded for pennies on the dollar then why not cash in?
I could see this happening Bob. Kapler has to know the Dodgers org pretty well and the Dodgers if acquiring Stanton will want to unload some 2018 salary. Kazmir/McCarthy $18/$11.5 respectively could be absorbed by ours truly in exchange for something pretty darn good.
Figure the Marlins get Verdugo and maybe we get Mitchell White from the Dodgers and/or have the Marlins send us Dan Straily
Or take back Volquez and his $13 mil for either Merandy Gonzalez or Dillon Peters
Is Zack Cozart the next Justin Turner? His 2017 season was a breakout and GM’s will be trying to figure out if it was a fluke or did he actually find something.
Would you sign him to play 3B and possibly be a super utility player in the mold of a Zobrist. I’d being willing to bet he can play all over the field.
Depends on the market and which team. He doesn’t make much sense for the Phillies regardless. He’s on the wrong side of 30 and we’ve already got a ton of positional flexibility.
For a contender in need of a super sub or SS, I’d definitely offer 3/45. There’s some encouraging trends in his batted ball profiles that suggest some of the offensive outburst is real, and he’s a good enough defender at SS that he should add value there either way.
Signing him as a dedicated 3B? Not worth it. His .392 wOBA would have placed him 5th among 3B last year, but if that comes down to even half way between that and his career he’s middle of the pack at best. And that’s assuming his defense would be up to par which is not a guarantee.
Cozart turns 33 years old next season…. Justin Turner was not that old when the Dodgers acquired him from the Mets.
It is a real gamble.
Do you really think Cozart would sign to be a super utility guy? He wants to start and he’ll want to stay in the middle at least to keep his value up.
Agree…..he is near the end of his career…he needs that one last big pay out and starting is probably where he will find it.
I assume he will be a player doing utility work, after he gets his last long term…more like three year….contract.
Um Zobrist signed at the age of 35 for 4 years $56…you guys are cracking me up that at 32 years old he is near the end of his career.
And what are you talking about Justin Turner not being that old when they acquired him? That’s not what we are talking about Romus. We are talking about the age that the Dodgers handed him 4/$64
Some of you guys I feel want to live in this perpetual state of rebuild and don’t spend any money as if we are the Devil Rays (tongue in cheek I know they aren’t the Devil Rays anymore)
Sheesh spend some flippin money on real MLB talent for crying out loud. Please tell me you are not pinning all hope on giving MM $400 mil. I mean haven’t you learned your lessons of Yore on those types of deals.
The Twins went from last in their division to the playoffs. The East is ripe for the Phillies right now MK should strike now.
Zobrist was not the same type of player Cozart is at this point.
Zobrist accepted his role as a utility guy, even under Maddon with the Rays..
Cozart wants to be the starting shortstop on a team.
And Justin Turner?…..he just turned 33 a few weeks ago.
Signed his contract in 2016. So he will be 35 when it is completed.
Sorry…saw where yuo were referencing Zobrist’s age not Turners
LOL I’m busting chops with you Romus but just for $hits and giggles when did you talk to Zack about the role he has to have before he signs?
Believe the one statement you made that was correct is this is his last shot at a big deal. He isn’t getting another one after this so believe me if you offer him what Turner got last year he’s taking it and saying what do you want me to do for you Skip
By the way did you study the Turner and Zobrist deals at all? Supposedly two of the best FO minds in the business no?
They are interestingly structured. Theo front loaded Ben’s deal and Friedman back loaded Turner’s
We should be throwing front loaded 4 year deals around right now like they were T-Shirts out of a cannon at a MiLB game.
But did see on MLBTR about Cozart’ intentions whoever he signs with.
But throw up enough money in front of him, I guess, and he may become verstaile in his thinking and playing
And have to remember….Theo , in my opnion, went after Zobrist at the insistence of Maddon, and when they interviewed Zobrist at the winter meeting a few years ago….he said that is who he wanted to play for anyway…his old coach.
But Freidman , as a former Rays exec, does make sound deals….and believe it or not wants to kep the Dodgers under the luxury tax for now.
And agree wholeheartedly with you on the front loaded deals……all long term contracts should be that way…..with NO player opt-out clauses…..instead have MutOps or better still ClubOps.
8:30 am (Dec 5) … what former Brave prospect(s) have the Phillies signed ???
Al romero. he works at penrose diner
Solid pick-up Rocco
It would not surprise if Alfaro influences Colombian right-hander Guillermo Zuniga to sign with the Phillies…though I’d prefer one of the premier Latin youngsters.
11:05am …. Klentak … Are you out of bed yet???
And Rosario is off the board, headed to the Royals. Let’s move it klentak!
… and … for just 650 thousand dollars. So, Yefri Del Rosario cost just 450 thousand J2 dollars because the first 200 thousand dollars is uncapped for all teams signing former Braves prospects. That still leaves Kevin Maitan, Yenci Pena, Juan Contreras, and Ji Hwan Bae as the better former Braves still to be had.
Brutal … Kevin Matian (sp) off the board to the Angels … Well I guess that impacts Ceasar to the Angels now … Either it’s in the bucket or the return just got lowerr
Maitan made a killing, again….$2.2M it looks like.
Excerpt…..of a Jay Floyd recent interview with Jesmuel Valentin:
-How is the recovery with your shoulder? Which one is it? And what is your rehab routine like these days?…………….”My shoulder feels amazing, I will say is at 95 percent and it’s my left shoulder. I’m at Clearwater right now. I’m leaving on Thursday to Philly to see Dr. Cowen and take the last test to see how everything’s going. Hopefully, I can get cleared so I can play winter ball and get those at bats I lost this year and get back on track. Most of my rehab has been in Clearwater with the trainers Joe Rauch and Justin, but also have been back home helping my family out and working out with my dad and trainer Josue Lionel on new exercises and mobility to get the small muscles stronger and prevent any other injuries”.
I expect him to make the initial 25 with he and Florimon battling for playing time at 2B prior to Kingery coming up. 40 man spots will again be an issue as Florimon will need one and then Kingery will too.
Projected top 50 of draft is out. Phils with the 3rd pick will get a very good player. Gorman, a high school power hitting 3B, is my choice but there are several pitchers with great arms who will be available. Singer will go 1 or 2 if he has another good season so I don’t think he’ll be there for us.
Definitely looking forward to the 2018 draft. It’s supposed to be the best since 2010 (Harper, Taillon, Machado, Sale, Harvey, Yelich). 2018 is loaded with pitching; lots of high velo/high ceiling HS arms, and lots of college pitching depth. That said, I would be all in on the Phillies selecting Gorman or Nander De Sedas or Jeremy Eierman. I’m a firm believer the Phillies will sign MM next winter. He’ll most likely get an “opt out” after five years. It would be nice to have a young 3Bman percolating through the system as insurance for that MM “opt out” clause.
Not sure which Top 50 you are referring to, Murray. But here’s a list Frankie Piliere put out for D1 Baseball a couple of months ago. Piliere has since left D1 Baseball for a job with the Mariners, so I dropped my subscription.
1 Ethan Hankins RHP Cumming, GA Vanderbilt
2 Ryan Rolison LHP Ole Miss
3 Logan Gilbert RHP Stetson
4 Brady Singer RHP Florida
5 Casey Mize RHP Auburn
6 Jackson Kowar RHP Florida
7 Shane McClanahan LHP South Florida
8 Nander De Sedas SS Montverde, FL Florida State
9 Kumar Rocker RHP Watkinsville, GA Vanderbilt
10 Nolan Gorman 3B Glendale, AZ Arizona
11 Nick Madrigal SS Oregon State
12 Griffin Conine OF Duke
13 Matthew Liberatore LHP Peoria, AZ Arizona
14 Brice Turang SS Corona, CA LSU
15 Will Banfield C Lawrenceville, GA Vanderbilt
16 Tim Cate LHP UConn
17 Austin Bergner RHP North Carolina
18 Jarred Kelenic OF Waukesha, WI Louisville
19 Jeremy Eierman SS Missouri State
20 Luke Bartnicki LHP Marietta, GA Georgia Tech
21 Mike Vasil RHP Wellesley, MA Virginia
22 Konnor Pilkington LHP Mississippi State
23 Cole Wilcox RHP Chickamauga, GA Georgia
24 Travis Swaggerty OF South Alabama
25 Steven Gingery LHP Texas Tech
26 Jordan Groshans SS Magnolia, TX Kansas
27 Carter Stewart RHP Melbourne, FL Mississippi State
28 Ryan Weathers LHP Loretto, TN Vanderbilt
29 Mason Denaburg RHP Merritt Island, FL Florida
30 Alec Bohm 3B/1B Wichita State
31 Greyson Jenista OF/1B Wichita State
32 Tristan Pompey OF Kentucky
33 Lineras Torres RHP Beacon, N.Y. St. John’s
34 Connor Scott OF/LHP Tampa, FL Florida
35 Seth Beer OF/1B Clemson
36 Austin Becker RHP Sunbury, OH Vanderbilt
37 Sean Wymer RHP TCU Texas
38 Kendall Logan Simmons SS Macon, GA Georgia Tech
39 Hogan Harris LHP Louisiana-Lafayette Virginia
40 Mike Siani OF Glenside, PA
41 Kris Bubic LHP Stanford
42 Nico Hoerner SS/2B Stanford
43 Slade Cecconi RHP Oviedo, FL Miami
44 Jeremiah Jackson SS Mobile, AL Mississippi State
45 Alek Thomas OF Chicago, IL TCU
46 Cadyn Grenier SS Oregon State
47 Sean Hjelle RHP Kentucky
48 Daniel Lynch LHP Virginia
49 Tanner Dodson RHP California
50 Luken Baker 1B/RHP TCU
51 Griffin Roberts RHP Wake Forest
52 Matt Mercer RHP Oregon
53 Niko Decolati OF/3B Loyola Marymount
54 Joe Gray OF Hattiesburg, MS Ole Miss
55 George Janca SS Texas A&M
56 Jake McCarthy OF Virginia
57 Trevor Larnach OF Oregon State
58 Nick Sprengel LHP San Diego
59 Grant Koch C Arkansas
60 Steele Walker OF Oklahoma
61 Blaine Knight RHP Arkansas
62 Nick Decker OF Southampton, N.J. Maryland
63 J.T. Ginn RHP Brandon, MS Mississippi State
64 Triston Casas 1B Pembroke Pines, FL Miami
65 Tristan Beck RHP Stanford
66 Xavier Edwards SS Wellington, FL Vanderbilt
67 Tarik Skubal LHP Seattle
68 Nolan Kingham RHP Texas
69 Simeon Woods-Richardson RHP Houston, TX Texas
70 Noah Davis RHP UC Santa Barbara
71 Colton Eastman RHP Cal State Fullerton
72 Anthony Seigler C Cartersville, GA Auburn
73 Noah Naylor C Mississauga, ON Texas A&M
74 Brandon Dieter SS/RHP Covina, CA Stanford
75 Zach Watson OF LSU
76 Zack Hess RHP LSU
77 Jimmy Herron OF Duke
78 Zach Linginfelter RHP Tennessee
79 Jason Bilous RHP Coastal Carolina
80 Jake Wong RHP Grand Canyon
81 Ryan Feltner RHP Ohio State
82 John Aiello 3B Wake Forest
83 Alex McKenna OF Cal Poly
84 Jonathan India 3B Florida
85 Adam Hill RHP South Carolina
86 Elijah Cabell OF Winter Park, FL LSU
87 Jonathan Childress LHP Forney, TX Texas A&M
88 Adam Kloffenstein RHP Magnolia, TX TCU
89 Ethan Reed RHP Laguna Niguel, CA Southern California
90 Nick Northcut 3B Mason, OH Vanderbilt
91 Jack Perkins RHP Kokomo, IN Louisville
92 Dallas Woolfolk RHP Ole Miss
93 Dominic Pipkin RHP Pinole, CA California
94 Davis Martin RHP Texas Tech
95 Jaden Hill RHP Ashdown, AR LSU
96 Joey Bart C Georgia Tech
97 Ryder Green OF Knoxville, TN Vanderbilt
98 Cal Raleigh C Florida State
99 Seth Halvorsen RHP Plymouth, MN Missouri
100 Bryce Bush 3B Birmingham, MI Mississippi State
Hinkie…MLB’s Top 50 came out.
Scott Walker seems like a PHILLIES first Rd pick.Sean Hjelle sounds like a fast mover up the ranks. Conine son sounds good.
Sean Hjelle … not good enough for 1-3, but probably too good for 2-3.
Alek Thomas > Steele Walker.
Griffin Conine is a really good player and probably a top 10 pick. He was voted “Best Pro Prospect” on the Cape this summer. I just can’t see the Phillies drafting a LH hitting OF with a top 10 pick for the third year in a row. For me, Klalmaraz (Klentak and Almaraz) go pitcher (Singer, Rolison, Mize, Kowar, Hankins, Liberatore, and Becker all possibilities) or 3Bman (Gorman, De Sedas, Eierman).
Sean Hjelle may be the only 6’11’ student at Kentucky who is not playng basketball.
Have to see how he does this spring to see if his ranking rises from 34…which right now is iow bottom first round pick or Round A CBA picks.
He also was not drafted out of HS….some of the better prospects get drafted ouit of HS…be it late rounds but they do get drafted.
As for the trades, things happen in sequence. For a Cesar deal to happen, Walker needs to sign first. For the Angels to be in a deal, they need Ohtani to pick a team first so they know how much salary they need to move around. As for pitcher trades, the key FA arms need to sign first and then we’ll see trades. Next week, everyone will talk to everyone laying groundwork for “what if” deals. Some teams might overpay early to get the player they want but most teams will let the market and situations play out. We have to relax unfortunately because Phillies moves probably won’t happen quickly.
I have questions, and the Phillies operate in a cone of silence. Why can’t Thomson take a couple hours out of his day and come into town for an interview? Has Kapler taken him out to dinner yet? Was his reaction, “WOW”? Will the Phillies hire an interim 1B coach until such a time as they can find one? Who knew that 1B coach was the hardest position to fill? Are they looking for another former pitcher to coach 1B? Will Zolecki or Salisbury get off their asses and give us some answers?
Wow … that’s pretty rough on Zolecki and especially Jim Salisburry (who is dealing with his daughter’s devastating stroke that has left her paralyzed).
I’m aware of what Salisbury is going through, and he and his family have my sympathy. I still feel that both know more than they are letting on.
It’s like anything else consider who pays their salary and the likes of who is out of work these days in the industry it’s no surprise these guys don’t do the critical reporting that needs to be done. That said Salisbury is likely to give you a little more than TZ.
TZ will get riled up if you push back at some of the propaganda he puts out. It’s quite funny sometimes.
They are both good guys but my expectations for their reporting is extremely low. Remember try not to listen to what they say but rather watch what they do.
The FO that is
Very inappropriate post by you about Salisbury and Zolecki. If you are so interested why not call the Phillies yourself?
No it wasn’t c’mon with that.
Fangraphs Guide to Rule 5 eligibles:
Tocci not mentioned….Puliin, Viza, and Gomez Phillies rated as possible selections.
First ex-Braves signee goes to Royals, Del Rosario, for $650K. I am sure Klentak is closing in on a couple as we speak! On the Cesar trade issue, I go back to Pat Gillick trading Bobby Abreu, a very good player, and a better player than Cesar, no disrespect to Cesar. Gillick decided it was time to turn the team over to the next wave, Rollins, Utley, etc, and got very little for Abreu. This management team needs to decide if Kingery is as good as advertised, and if so, make a spot for him. If not in April then whenever that time expires to keep him under control for another year, I think mid-May. Let Florimon or Valentin play 2B for 5 weeks. Or Freddy, for that matter. Cesar is not bringing back a #3 SP by himself, so add to the package or take a prospect for him and move on. The time to over ask for him was alst year. That time passed.
Losing hope that anything will happen lol
Maitian to the Angels
… and then there were three (former Braves prospects I’d like to see the Phillies sign): Yenci Pena, Juan Contreras, and Ji Hwan Bae.
…and catcher Abrahan Gutierrez
well, you got that one.
Maitan to the Angels does add a little more “Umph” to their farm system. Could mean something to the Phillies if they deal CeHe to the Angels for prospects.
cehe for Maitan straight up?
That’s a “No” for me. Jordan Adell and Brandon Marsh are both better prospects than Maitan. I might be a “Yes” on Adell or Marsh plus Jose Soriano. Of course, I’d prefer Tyler Skaggs in an expanded deal for CeHe.
… so … it’s possible the Phillies may have offered Del Rosario more money to sign, but it wasn’t the kid’s priority.
Also Angels give Maitan 2.2 million.
He has now made over 6 million LOLOL crazy
And has for all intensive purposes been allowed to be a FA 2X yet the domestic player will never get that chance in the current system.
It’s so wrong on so many different levels
They tried to formulate a draft for international players two or three years ago….but the MLB Latin caucas of MLB players , approx 28% of the majors, threatened to strike, plus all of the noted LAtin retired players were against it….so you have what it is.
The current system is about as fair as possible under the undrafting system……this situation of double bonuses happenes only when teams get pemalized like the Sox and Braves.
Could somebody hold a mirror under Klentak’s nose? Let’s be sure he’s alive.
Actually, he’s probably about to announce he’s signed another middle infield prospect.
8mark…maybe a reliever also.
maybe Klentak has the flu. $2.2 million was pretty steep for Maitan. Kid got paid twice.
He did struggle too,
So yeah, he got paid for sure. Makes me wish I had a lick of talent :). Best we can hope for is their old #30
Prospect .. Unless he is gone before
I write this. Come on klentak, stick it to the braves!
Abrahan Gutierrez, c (Braves bonus $3.53 million)
Yunior Severino, 2b (Braves bonus: $1.9 million)
Yenci Pena, ss (Braves bonus: $1.05 million)
Juan Contreras, rhp (Braves bonus: $1.2 million)
Livan Soto, ss (Braves bonus: $1 million)
Juan Carlos Negret, of (Braves bonus: $1 million)
Guillermo Zuniga, rhp (Braves bonus: $350,000)
Antonio Sucre, of (Braves bonus: $300,000)
Brandol Mezquita, of (Braves bonus: $300,000)
Angel Rojas, ss (Braves bonus: $300,000)
…….my guess Phillies go for Zuniga, a small ripple in the pond…I’d prefer Yunior Severino targetted perhaps for third base however.
Try this one….it may work.
I’m in the minority, but I want to keep Cesar. Anyone wanting to trade for him is looking to win next year, so we’re not going to get a good current starter. We’ll get more prospects to combine with the infantry of pitchers between Lakewood and Reading. I’d rather keep him and field a better team next year.
And we can keep Kingery and Cesar. All it would require is trading Nick Williams, who is a good sell-high candidate. Kingery, Hererra and Altherr. And we still have Hoskins as an option.
Agreed on Williams. I like his attitude, but I’m not at all sold on his long term effectiveness.
He’s a very good player so I’m definitely not giving him away.
He could actually have more value at the trade deadline, so I get why they are not eager to trade him for less than fair value now.
Abreu was a great player, but his situation was a lot different. One of the reasons that they traded Abreu, I believe, is because they wanted different and newer influences in the clubhouse. I really don’t think you have that issue at all with Cesar. Also, Abreu was an expensive player at the time, whereas Cesar is cheap and controlled for several years, which helps his market value (or should). Also, I thought Gillick did a pretty bad job of the Abreu trade and probably (no, definitely) should have gotten more in return than what he received, which was not that great at the time and turned out to be pretty much nothing.
catch …to your point that Cesar “could have more value at the tread deadline” … is that possible ? Yes, but a few things would have to break just right for that to happen:
1. Cesar would need to avoid injury
2. Cesar would need to have a third straight excellent (at least very good) year
3. A 2Bman(men) on a contending team(s) would have to get injured
If all of these things don’t happen, chances are Klentak will get less for Cesar in August than he’ll get now. If a club isn’t desperate this summer, they can wait three months and sign a FA (Murphy, LeMahieu, Dozier, Kinsler, Forsythe, Lowrie, Marwin Gonzalez, etc) and not have to give up any prospects/players.
I believe Klentak will find a deal for Cesar this month, even if it’s an expanded deal (multiple players/prospects and/or multiple teams).
Otero, there are at least 20 teams “looking to win next year”, including the Angels. Nonetheless, Cesar’s value is as a main piece in a trade package. Alone he’ll get you a #3/4 arm, maybe a good late inning reliever. With 2 or 3 prospects, perhaps along with Velasquez, you should get a solid starting #2 pitcher, though not a TOR.
Maybe now the Angels will turn around and trade you Maitan for Cesar…
Otero, I just don’t think that Kingery in the OF maximizes his abilities. You may be right, but I am not ready to give up on Nick Williams. If I thought the trade market would be better later in the year, I could be persuaded to keep Kingery in LHV until July. But, I don’t and don’t see the market for Cesar picking up later rather than sooner. Maybe those of us who really like Kingery are wrong and he is not the package that we believe, but I see a central player on a Playoff team at 2B, and do not feel that way about Cesar.
If you don’t value Cesar as a central player on a playoff team right now, then I don’t know what to tell you. He’s been awesome the last two years.
Kingery in the OF gives you a chance to evaluate him as a hitter while keeping most of a pretty effective 2nd half lineup together. I think this is a reasonable comprismise.
It’s an interesting thought. I can envision a number of scenarios where the team keeps both Cesar and Kingery.
Cesar makes mistakes at key moments that costs games. I don’t believe he’s a winning player. I don’t think Herrera is either, for that matter. Kingery on the other hand is a winner who will make big plays to win.
That’s, too be kind, rhetoric…As a latino, I always hear that the latin american players are costing us games and the white players make big plays. I don’t know how you could’ve watched Cesar and Herrera the last two years and thought they were losing ballplayers. They were almost the only bright spots (besides Rhys and NOLA!).
I agree with you 100%. Here’s the thing that I don’t think people realize but if you look at his numbers, they’ve gotten better year after year. He just keeps improving. If he can unlock his speed on the bases then you have one of the best 2B in baseball.
matt13…agree with you on Williams and also on Kingery, and his potential.
As for Williams, his power tool is exceptional…..since 2013 when he was a Ranger prospect, thru the last four years. His only liability is the swing and miss issues.
Kingery’s physical attributes are onvious…his leadership qualities nay be unsurpassed. Hoskins says he is the best all around player he has played with.
I have a feeling that Cesar will be involved in a three way deal with the Phillies, Angels, and an unknown third team. The Phillies will get a starting pitcher, the Angels will get Cesar, and the third team will get a player from the Angels. There may be a half dozen prospects from all three teams in the mix.
If the Phillies are involved in a three team trade, I would have to think it would be one of the other two team’s idea. Not sure Klentak has the creativity to initiate on that level.
However, the Gutierrez signing is a notch in his saddle. Good pickup. Does anyone know where he’ll likely rank in our system?
Rob Thomson officially named bench coach.
I expect the team to be better this year, and I am counting on Klentak to improve the SP and add a veteran reliable Bullpen piece. I think we still are in a position to give the OF a full year to see what they are. Williams, Doobie and Altherr still have enough upside that all can be very good players. Hoskins at 1B, Kingery, by mid-Mayish, at 2B, JP at SS, and another year for Franco at 3B. We will have enough data to see where we spend big after next year, and how many spots we have to fill. So, I expect Cesar to be traded at some point, together with 1 or 2 mid-level SP prospects, and maybe another piece for a good, controllable SP. I think that achieves supporting both more wins in 2018 and flexibility for 2019.
Herrera is already a very good player. Stop fighting it.
He is Tommy and so was Adam Eaton….
Tommy and DMAR, I don’t give him very good yet. He is a good player, and needs to improve his all around game. I don’t know exactly what his WAR finished at, somewhere around 2, but it is in the Top 200 of Baseball, and when he gets it into the Top 100, I will give him a very good. I like him, and don’t mean to quibble, but I want more out of him, and I think that this year, under Kapler, we will see it.
I’m raising the bar Matt I expect this team to contend for a Wild Card a la the Twinkies. You have the Nats and then what? And even the Nats appear to be a team in strife if they don’t get Harper locked up.
Gutierrez signs with Phis / former Braves prospect
BP June 25th 2016
His swing looks very good……but scouts are pretty correct on his foot speed….had to be close to 5 seconds to first. I think Franco could beat him to first.
Klentak finally makes a move
Looks like he found his cell phone today afterall … For me, he was on trial today. I’ll take it, he has pushed back the wolves. The signing hurts the Braves fans and that makes me smile.
Gutierrez has not yet had much time at all to show his skills at the professional level, but he did appear in 35 Gulf Coast League games in 2017. Over 141 plate appearances, Gutierrez slashed .264/.319/.357. That’s not an impressive output, of course, but for a player of his age and experience the focus at this stage remains on skills and development.
He was the guy I thought they would try to sign. They need a catcher prospect and they just got a guy the Braves paid $3.5M for $550K. That’s a great deal. Let’s give him time to develop.
There’s also still $400K remaining for another signing
The first 200,000 of the signing does not count against their remaining international allotment of 900,000. So if my math is correct they have. 550,000 left
Plus the 200,000 on the next signing
That could be two more players
He was only 17 during the year. He turned 18 on October 31st. Maitan is only a couple of months younger. Gutierrez has good size (6’2″ 214 lbs). Defensively he was pretty good with only 3 errors and 3 PBs in 28 games at catcher. He threw out 38% of would-be base stealers. In June he only played in 3 games so no need to talk about that. In July, he hit .220/.322/.280. In August, he hit .269/.300/.388 and hit his only HR of the year. He’s a righty and his splits were very good against RHP. He hit .290/.340/.409. Against southpaws, he hit .194/.268/.222. I’m sure he hasn’t seen that many lefties in his career but that should come with experience. I could definitely see him in Wmsprt next year
I think he’ll go to GCL, we already have catchers for Willsport
Perhaps he will have to remain as a catcher with an arm like he has…..his grades as a runner though are well below average.
MLB scouting report on Abrahan Gutierrez from 2016. Ht 6’1”…Wt 179 lbs
Scouting grades: Hit: 40 Power: 40 Run: 20 Arm: 60 Field: 70
Gutierrez is not afraid of the big stage. The teenager starred on Venezuela’s 15-and-under World Cup team so he’s no stranger to playing under pressure in games that matter. But that’s only part of the reason scouts like him so much.
Gutierrez has an athletic body with a strong and accurate arm. He’s a good receiver with solid defensive skills behind the plate. Scouts like his soft hands and how he controls the game. He also has a loose arm and a quick release. He might not be the fastest player on the field, but Gutierrez has shown some power and projects to be an everyday catcher. He’s a line-driver hitter with power to the alleys. The teenage hitter is also working on defining his strike zone at the plate. Gutierrez trains with former Major League infielder Carlos Guillen at the Carlos Guillen Academy in Maracay, Venezuela.
The Phils are very familiar with Venezuela prospects, having scouted that country closely. Morales is from there also I recall. This guy could become a legit starting catcher one day. He seems to have the defensive tools.
Yes, Morales is from there.
They seem to prefer Ven kids form waht I have been seeing.
Majority of their signings have been from Venezuela….though the largest $$$ bonus so far is Ortiz, was a DR kid.
Not sure they have even given one Ven kid a million so far.
Encarnacion’s country is DR and he was a million.
Not looking to throw a bucket of water on this Abraham Gutierrez blanket … but … according to Eric Longenhagen (and other scouts), the shine may be a little more dull on Venezuelan backstop’s once bright star:
“Gutierrez’s frame started filling out early, and some international scouts believe he rose to the forefront of the 2016 J2 class simply because he had something resembling adult physicality sooner than his peers did. He signed for a lofty $3.53 million but ranked 23rd on that year’s July 2 board after scouts soured on him as signing day approached. He has viable catch-and-throw skills but will need to keep his frame in check to retain them as he ages. Offensively, the hit and power tools are fringey, requiring a long-term stay behind the plate for Gutierrez to be an everyday big leaguer. He spent 2017 in the Gulf Coast League.”
I guess the bottom line is Gutierrez may not be the prospect he was once thought to be. However, for 550 thousand dollars (only 350 thousand against the Phillies 2017 J2 budget), he’s more than worth taking a flyer on.
Gutierrez wasn’t one of the Braves prospects I was hoping for. Maitan and Del Rosario are off the board, but Yenci Pena, Juan Contreras, and Ji Hwan Bae are still available. Maybe Klentak will have an announcement on one of them today.
FWIW, when the signing was announced on MLB, the analyst referred to Gutierrez as the best available prospect after Maitan among those released from their contracts. I don’t remember which show/analyst, though.
From Keith Law on Gutierrez and the released Braves prospects, as a whole:
“Catcher Abrahan Gutierrez, who signed for $3.53 million, is a good catch-and-throw guy with big questions around the bat.”
“These are all good inventory guys for short-season clubs, and are all so young that there remains both high variance and big potential with each of them, with a good chance few or none of them end up making any major league impact.”
From what I’m reading, Abraham Gutierrez sounds a lot like Deivi Grullon. However, I do remember reading about the Phillies newly signed catcher a couple/few years ago. I remembered Gutierrez, Maitan, and Mark Vientos being referred to as the three best 15 YO players in the world. I went back and looked up Kiley McDaniel’s write up on Gutierrez (from March 2015). It was glowing:
“One more name has been brought up as a high end guy in the 2016 class: Venezuelan C Abraham Gutierrez, who trains with former big leaguer Carlos Guillen. Gutierrez is average to plus across the board with precocious all fields power and the tools to stick behind the plate. He’s obviously also very young, so it’s very early to throw lofty comparisons around like with Maitan, but scouts have said Gutierrez’s overall game is along the lines of Mike Piazza.”
It will be interesting in seeingr where the Phillies org. will rank and rate him and position him next season when in reference to Marchan, Lenin Rodriguez and Rudolfo Duran.
He already did his GCL audition, so he could start at Lakewood with I assume Duran, or stay in the EST until Williamsport season opens in June and compete with Marchan and Rodriguez.
Thinking pitching might be next, maybe Contreras
Today has ended well. Phillies nabbed a high-end piece. That in and of itself is not the big news. It was almost expected for Klentak to grab somebody. But the fact that it was for $550K, that’s where the real win is. That money could have come from next year’s pool as well. We won’t know what the plan is until down the road. Perhaps there is a 15-year old who will turn 16 in February that Phil’s have their eye on.
I have to think today’s signing came from next year’s money. Why keep $900K around for so long? They haven’t acquired any more since August. $550K from next year’s pool won’t hurt so much next year as it would right now. Hopefully more signings to come!
Andrew, I think the money came from the 2017 pool. You asked, “Why keep $900K around for so long?” The answer is, to sign Braves prospects. All thirty teams knew this was coming. Since the Phils aren’t in the running for Ohtani, the 2017 money has to be spent somewhere. This is it. Look for another former Braves prospect to be added. I’m hoping for Yenci Pena.
Angels being aggressive signing Livan Soto, another ex-Brave prospect, It will be fun following these guys as they work their way up from the GCL. Wonder if any of these guys pop up in trade talks?
My expanded offer to Angels would be Cesar, Odubel and Velasquez for Skaggs, Richards and Maitan. (I’d even consider adding Franco to the package with idea of JP at 3b and keeping Freddy.)
Then you sign a FA starting pitcher, even Cobb (2nd pick be damned) Maybe Yelich can be had in a 3-team Stanton trade where we also acquire a comp balance pick?
Woh, 8mark ! Slow down. You and I think a lot alike, but not on this. I like CeHe for Skaggs, but this trade gets heavily lopsided for the Angels after that. Many are down on Odubel (for silly reasons), but he is worth way more than one year of Garrett Richards and Kevin Maitan. You throw in VV and it becomes a very merry Christmas for the Angels.
You may be right, Hinkie. My thinking is that VVs high risk is equivalent to Maitan’s proximity to the bigs. Cesar and Skaggs are a wash IMO. Truth be told, I’m down on Doobie because, well, I just don’t like him as a piece moving forward. Besides, Richards is you know who’s best friend in LA, and if his upside is realized, we can overpay for an extension.
You’re right about Richards relationship with Mike Trout (best buds). As a matter of fact, Richards is/will very soon be in town to take part (as a groomsman) in Trout’s wedding this Saturday. If Richards shows he is healthy this season, he could be Klentak’s #2 FA target next winter.
My early Top Five 2018 Phillies FA targets:
1. Manny Machado
2. Josh Donaldson (as a fallback guy in the unlikely event MacKlentak can’t come to terms with MM)
3. Garret Richards (if he proves he is healthy in 2017)
4. Patrick Corbin
5. Zach Britton (if he proves he is healthy in 2017)
5B. Marwin Gonzalez (as the Phillies version of Ben Zobrist)
We should know by the end of July if Franco will be a part of the future. Machado and Donaldson may be available at the trade deadline. If the Phillies can extend the contract, pull the trigger.
On the right deal Donaldson, even though he is getting older, is incredibly attractive. Donaldson will be going into his age 33 year in 2019. If they can get him on a 4 year contract at $25-28 million per year or even 4 years with a reasonable vesting option, I’d do it in a heartbeat. The only player that’s been more consistently outstanding over the last 5 years is Mike Trout. Donaldson is a GREAT player. Not good – great. And I think his age will scare other teams off and you might be able to reach a reasonable deal (in terms of years, not annual dollars) – similar to what happened with Adrian Beltre when he signed with Texas.
You may get Donaldson,at that point of his career, and at that AAV, for three years and a club option for the 4th.
Of course Machado is the talk, who the beat guys have been hearing for a awhile now, and I guess some of that is based on MacPhail and Lozano’s prior connection in 2010.
But Donaldson would come cheaper AAV and shorter contract duratio and may give you the same bang for the dollar, until another Mike Schmidt comes thru the farm system.
I saw a report that Cobb is now likely to end up with the Cubbies…
Hickey, him and Maddon are al back together again if that is the case.
We’ll see you know the adage Romus money talks and bleepity bleep walks
Yes indeed….rocco can attest to that also.
Hinkie, I like your list. If we find we need an OF, and I hope we do not, there are a couple out there besides Harper. I also hope that one of our young SPs steps up, but if not, I might add our old friend JAHapp to an expanded list.
I think the Padre’s make the most sense today for a deal for either Freddy or CeHe. 7 of their top 10 prospects are pitchers; 4 of those 7 pitchers are LHP
For Freddy I like to think Joey Lucchesi might be available
DMAR … if Klentak gets Joey Lucchesi for one year of Feddy Galvis, he wins Executive Of The Year !!!!!
Freddy to SD makes sense, but only in a package if we want anything significant coming back. I’m also weary of the insulting company line that “we don’t HAVE to trade Cesar now” because Kingery still won’t be the opening day 2b. Baloney! Come opening day, Cesar’s value will have dropped HUGELY. There’ll be a gold mine of rental 2Bs come trade deadline. He’s got to be moved now.
Whether you think jetpax is ready or not on opening day you mute the super 2 and call him up then.
I thought we all agreed to scrap “jetpax” because of how douchey it sounded.
I don’t like it either. It’s one of the least cool nicknames ever. We need another one.
I think YOU all agreed, Anon1. But it wasn’t Unan1.
C’mon, say it with me – JETPAX! You’ll feel better.
It’s a name he brought with him. It’s part of his twitter handle. You’re stuck with it.
The fact that he uses it makes even less cool. Yeah, we’re stuck with it until we come up with something better and we can and should.
Exactly. When you used your own nickname you sound like a tool. Kingery is a solid cat but Jetpax sounds dumb and when used here it sounds douchey.
Nice 🙂 I’m pulling for him Hink
I could add something to that package Hinkie to offset the 1 year of Freddy. They could do PTBNL if they can’t extend Freddy to a number of their liking or cash considerations if they do.
Tatis JR is a few years away so having Galvis stick around until he is ready probably is fungible for them.
I’ll give you a few realistic Padres targets for Freddy Galvis:
* 21 YO RHP Enyel De Los Santos https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=deloss000eny
* 26 YO, 6’9″ LHP (and one time Phillies draft pick) Brad Wieck https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=wieck-000bra
* soon to be 21 YO RHP Pedro Avila https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=avila-003ped
Of the three, I like Avila the best.
That said, I’d probably hold on to Freddy, start him at 2B in April and May, and then trade him this summer.
DMAR … I’m going to need to post this in two parts (site sometimes holds up posts for modification with more than two links)
I’ll give you a few realistic Padres targets for Freddy Galvis:
* 21 YO RHP Enyel De Los Santos https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=deloss000eny
* 26 YO, 6’9″ LHP (and one time Phillies draft pick) Brad Wieck https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=wieck-000bra
* soon to be 21 YO RHP Pedro Avila https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=avila-003ped
Of the three, I like Avila the best.
That said, I’d probably hold on to Freddy, start him at 2B in April and May, and then trade him this summer.
De los Santos would get it done for me for a 1 to 1 deal. I prefer Lucchesi and would try to find the additional pieces required to make that deal happen. I’m looking for guys ready to come up and pitch now or at least by May/June
I’ll do Avila too if you’re saying that’s the return 1 to 1 he had a really nice K/9 over 2 levels.
Jim Callis and Jonathan Mayo (MLB.com) have a top ten 2018 mock draft up. I know HS pitchers are extremely risky at the top of the draft, but I’d still be fine with rolling the dice with either Matt Liberatore or Ethan Hankins. This 2018 draft is going to be loaded. I hope Klentak trades for a comp pick (or two).
Hoping Singer is the guy the Phillies get. Doesn’t seem like he’ll last. Feel like he could move up quick a la Nola.
Jackson Kowar would also work for me if Singer goes one or two.
He could be in the rotation at the park by August 2019.
If Hankins is there I’m not blinking (that’s today) so much can change between now and June
DMAR … there are going to be a lot of very high end candidates available at 1-3, but this performance by Ethan Hankins at the U18 World Cup this summer was just dominant/ridiculous/mind blowing !
And do not sleep on Mathew Liberatore. Love his frame, projectability, and that curveball !
Two other HS pitchers I really like, but who don’t get mentioned as much are (RH) Austin Becker and (LH) Luke Bartnicki.
Drool…..we can’t really go wrong with either I agree. The only fear you have with either Hankins or Liberatore is an arm injury
Hinkie nope Sean Hjelle 6 ‘ll’ 215 PDS with an outstanding knuckle curve.
Tim … just noted below your first Hjelle post (above) … I’ve seen him pitch at U of Kentucky. I like him, but Hjelle is not good enough for 1-3, but too good for 2-3. I don’t see him as a Phuture Phillie. If you’re looking for a pitcher who could be picked a lot higher than he is currently listed on that MLB.com list, I’d go with Austin Becker (#45). Becker could be another Ian Anderson.
Yes Hjelle that was his first yr as a starter. He went from 200 to 215 lbs and he loves to workout so at 21 in his 2nd yr starting he could be 230 lbs plus at 6 ’11’ . His Knuckle curve is almost elite .just saying there’s alot more to him.
The video below is the first time I’m seeing Hankins, yup..
I’m on board. His delivery looks repeatable.
Hankins > Liberatore
At least from my eye test
Whatever happens when it’s all said and done, every MLB club knows payroll flexibility is our calling card. Klentak damn well better exploit that. It’s as valuable as most of our prospects, but it won’t last forever.
Jon Heyman says the Mets have also checked in about Cesar. Wouldn’t mind grabbing one of their young arms. He also thinks the Padres are the favorite to land Ohtani. I would agree that SD’s arm farm is another worth mining.
The reason I mentioned payroll flexibility, the longer Stanton waits to make his decision, the Phillies’ chances of getting involved increase. Not for him, per se, but we certainly could help the Dodgers stay under the luxury tax – for the right price, of course. He’s probably waiting for them to check in.
The Padres have a top three system. However, they’re not looking to deal their prospects. They’re following the Cubs/Astros/Phillies blueprint: grow the farm and win with your young, inexpensive players and add a few FA’s to supplement the rebuild.
Depending on medical reports, I’d probably trade CeHe to the Mets for Steven Matz. Their farm system is weak, but I do like their top two picks from the 2017 draft. I’d consider CeHe for David Peterson (high floor) and Mark Vientos (high ceiling).
Steven Flipping Matz NO WAY Hinkie he stinks
Matz’ just had elbow surgery to repair damaged nerves.
He has started 41 games out of a total of approx 75/80 available games to start since July 2015 Taking him is a risk.
Why ROMUS? Do you think cesar is worth anything more? I have seen people say a fourth starter or utility guy or relief pitcher is all he is worth. I guess his numbers the last two years mean nothing to people on here/
rocco….you think like Sheldon Cooper, oops I mean Matt Klentak…..he is not going to give Cesar away, since reports are he wants top of the line talent in return for Cesar and so far has not budged.
So he placed a high value on Cesar. And rightly so…….but the market normally dictates value and return. You know, comes down to location. location. location….and second basemen are probably located in a bad neighborhood right now and it will get worse in another year or less! 🙂
That’s why I said “depending on medical reports”. When healthy, Matz is a good MOR LH starter (maybe even a #2). If you’re asking for a MLB pitcher for CeHe, you’re obviously not getting Syndergaard or deGrom. That Leaves Harvey (major arm issues and one year until FA), Matz, Wheeler (injured even more than Harvey) , Lugo, and Gsellman. For me, it’s either Matz or Lugo. Matz has a higher ceiling and is LH.
They need more than that. Matz, who I like a lot, is too great a risk by himself due to the injury. Usually pitchers who start out being hurt all the time, are always snake bit by injuries.
Would you take David Peterson and Mark Vientos ? I don’t see any other match with the Mets for a CeHe deal. And that’s OK as long as the Angels come through with a solid offer. But … obviously … the bigger the market, the greater the return.
Matz, Syndergaard, Harvey, and de Grom have had TJ surgery or worse. I don’t know what they’re doing up there in NY, but I want no part of their pitching program. Move along.
“I don’t know what they’re doing up there in NY, but I want no part of their pitching program.”….could be the water!
Last week, someone thought Cesar for Archer was an overpay. This week, Cesar for Matz is fair. How about we shoot for some middle ground here, people.
What’s a fair return, for you ?
Nobody really said that, Andrew (I said it could be argued that Cesar is worth more than Archer, but that I would do the deal straight up). I think pretty much everyone agrees that Cesar for Archer, straight up, would be a good deal because TOR starters don’t grow on trees and Archer is or could be that, at least during a good year. The question was how much more, if anything, should they pay to get Archer.
Not sure why this is a surprise for you. Someone might think that CeHe is worth Archer and someone else thinks that Matz is a fair deal. Didn’t realize we had to have a consensus of opinion before posting something…
For the record, I think that you never get Archer for Hernandez and I won’t trade for Matz based on his injury history…
Don’t need a consensus opinion, but pull your heads out of your rear ends. Lets see some more posts about Tommy Joseph for Mike Trout! Yay! And defend it mercilessly on how it can make sense!! Trout got injured last year, Joseph did not. Joseph is more durable and cheaper than Trout. They must want him!
Give me a break.
You were warned, ciao.
rocco……again you were correct…..in the summer of 2015 when Ruben was dangling Cole Hamels around….and the Red Sox offerd a package included with tall LHP Henry Owens, you said he ‘stunk’ or something akin to a rocco description of that nature. Well the Sox released him so you were spot on.
I tend to simplify things. I’ve seen a hundred different scenarios for the Phillies filling their needs. I’ve seen Kingery’s name thrown out there as well as J P Crawford. This is crazy talk. If that’s what it takes to get a good pitcher then I’d rather see them sign two mid level FA pitchers that they may be able to deal at the deadline. The Phillies have plenty of loose parts that can be made available in a trade for Archer, Stroman, Fulmer, or Cole. There’s Galvis, Hernandez, Lively, Eshelman, Medina, Thompson, Kilome, Moniak or Hasely. Surely some combination of those parts should be enough to get a pitcher. In Toronto’s case, taking Tulowitski’s contract off of their hands might lower the payment for Stroman. Once the trade is made for a starter, sign a FA starter (Chatwood), and reliever (Nicasio).
Romus do you think we improve at all this year. Klentak is so slow to make a move, its killing me.
rocco…will come down to pitching.
Will have to see if the current starters are effective and remain healthy.
This may be the last year to show their wares as a starter for guys like Velasquez, Thompson, Eflin and Pivetta. They could be showcased, if healthy and somewhat effective, for a trade. Problem is, GMs like to buy low on potential young pitchers with unfulfilled early promise. I guess they all want to get the next Arrieta.
Rocco will pick him up for his Roto team, perhaps.
I think Toronto is making another run, so they may be willing to deal and dump Tulo’s contract in July, but not now. You can offer that whole list of “loose parts” and not get Archer, Fulmer or Cole.
O’s willing to listen on MM. Lets go Phillies…..
? … I bet. They must be starting to see the writing on the wall. Franco, eshelman, and …
Joseph :). He is a pending FA who will command a lot on the open market, better than nothing
Too little or too much?
Tac3….IMO. it may be more like Franco, Herrera, Kilome and Alfaro.
Machado is a generational player that immediately upgrades any team.
That is steep IMO, but you can make a case for it. I could see Franco, Kilmone, and either Alfaro or Herrera. That’s a tough pill to swallow for me. I’d do it if we it was Franco, Kilome, and Herrera. I’m too high on Alfaro. Herrera can be replaced more easily than the others, but would hurt to lose,
Regardless of his brain farts. Tack on the contract weight and it is tough. If the deal
Demands 4 players plus the contract I would look at moustkas a lot harder. Those pieces plus moustkas might be better longer term.
Not the easiest of calls to make.. But hey .. That’s why I’m not getting paid for my opinions.
For the right player, I would give up Alfaro and Williams without much of a second thought. I’d think a lot harder on Franco and Kilome and MUCH harder on Herrera who is very valuable in his own right.
This is sad. You guys are talking about acquiring one of the top-5 players in the game. You think other teams are just going to sit back and watch as we give up absolute worthless garbage for him. Franco and Joseph, two negative-WAR players. Oh sure, add Joseph to a team already burdened with two similar, one-dimensional players in Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo.
Alfaro? A butcher behind the plate who can’t catch pitches and apparently doesn’t like to walk. Don’t tell me his batting average is your indicator on him being good.
Nick Williams might end up being decent. But we can’t say for sure he’s going to be a .280/25/100 guy. Still too soon. So essentially nick Williams for manny machado? Yeah, keep dreaming.
And why everyone is so critical of Odubel Herrera? You really want to knock our best player the last two years? 4-win centerfielders don’t grow on trees, folks.
I’m still high in Alfaro, mainly because he can give the team a hard to match offensive output at C. He still needs to develop more, but I’m encouraged by his progress. Utley was so valuable becUse he gave you top offensive numbers at 2B, C is much the same. He should be closer to liberthals career years … Obviously you have to give up something to get soemthing but the asking price in MM is and should be through the roof. What I’m
Saying is that it may not be the most prudent thing to do. I’m all in when it is just a FA signing, but adding in your top prospects&splayers, and near historic contracts … Yes I start to baulk.
I am willing to
Give up Herrera, mainly because you can replace an OF much easier then an offensive catcher. Trading Herrera would hurt though, but we have $$$ to sign and prospects coming down the pike in the not so distant future.
Anyways.. Offseason looks like it’s finally heating up!
I mentioned it earlier this summer……Dan Duquette and son Angelos may be willing to trade Manny next week, vs lose him for a 30th something pick in 2019, in a ‘sign and trade ‘ scenario similar to the exchange negotiation protocol that the Marlins are letting the Giants do with Stanton..
MacPhail and Lozanao do have some history together back in Manny’s initial contract/bonus year of 2010.
So there is that possibility.
Though it will take a lot to get Manny in players/prospects and then the contract money.
well, the farm is deep enough that a major trade won’t hamstring the Phils.
Manny won’t sign an extension now. Why should he? He’ll wait to be a free agent. There’s no reason for the Phillies to trade for him now, we’re not winning the World Series this next year, even with him.
Agreed. A trade for him that is too rich in players or does not include a salary extension makes no sense for a non-contending team.
Which is why the Phillies would make sure to get a window of time to negotiate a new contract with MM before the deal is finalized.
When I hear that I can’t help but think of Jose Fernandez’s unborn daughter or his fiance who I assume he loved. I don’t know what the conversations are between players and agents. One would think Boras laid it all out there for Jose.
Can one not set up entire generations of their family with $200-$300-$400 million dollars
I guess being young and full of confidence makes them think “that will never happen to me”
I just cannot see the Os….Dan D and Angelos letting Manny walk for a 30th something 2019 draft pick…ain’t happening.
And they will receive virtually nothing for Manny come July if not signed.
So their window of opportunity for the best return is next week….unless Manny signs before then.
They may have to do a Jeter and let Manny and his agent Dan Lozano talk to any team after the offer is made to the Os….and agree to that 5/7 year contract….and there are only a few teams out there right now who can afford Manny’s, I asume, $200Mplus demands.
Romus … Baltimore’s best window of opportunity for the best MM return was this past summer. Angelos kept him despite the fact the Orioles were only a quasi-WC contender. He will not trade Machado this offseason. He’s looking to add some pitching and make one more run with Machado, Jones, Britton, and Brad Brach. If the O’s aren’t in contention, they’ll sell them all at the trade deadline.
Like Murray said above, it wouldn’t make much sense for the Phillies to trade for MM now even if Angelos was selling him. The Phillies would be better served signing him as a FA a year from now when they’ll be ready to compete and won’t have to surrender any prospects. Also, like I (and Murray, above) have said on multiple occasions, MLB players have absolutely no incentive to agree to sign-and-trade deals. Why would any agent agree to negotiate with one team now, when he could wait 10 months and negotiate with 30 teams ?
Finally, If Angelos were to shock the world and trade MM next week, I’d put my money on the Cardinals landing him. They want to win in 2018, they’re desperate for an impact bat, and have the prospects to deal. This winter, the Yankees want to get under the luxury tax threshold for the first time in forever so they can spend wildly again next winter.
Chatwood off the board as he is going to the Cubs. I know he was on some wish list.
Yup, he was someone worth considering. I can sure understand that he would rather pitch for the Cubs right now.
I liked him because he threw a lot of ground balls.
The only teams trading for one year of Manny are those that think he can help them win in 2018, before he becomes a free agent. That’s not the Phillies. I could see the Red Sox trade for him, they have a hole at 3B and have a good team if all are healthy.
Or a trade that allows for a window of contract negotiation before the deal is finalized. Could go either way.
Boston hates Manny plus Rafael Devers looked pretty good in his debut
Why wouldn’t a team work out and finalize long term deal with Machado before the trade is officially completed, with the permission of the Os?
Isn’t that what the Giants are doing with Stanton in some respects…agreeing to a deal based on Stanton’s wishes.
Romus … I didn’t see this post before responding to another of your posts above … so I’ll repeat myself: Sure, the Phillies (or any other team) would love to work out a long term deal with Manny Machado before finalizing a deal for him from Baltimore. The problem is MM and his agent wouldn’t love negotiating with one team when they could just wait 10 more months and negotiate with every team. Think of it this way … if I go on ebay and want to buy an Eric Lindros rookie card, and I’m the only one bidding, I might be able to get that card for a dollar. If I’m bidding against a group of people, I’m probably going to have to pay $1.25 for that Lindros rookie card. It’s economis 101.
Why would Machado agree to a long term deal with any team when he can basically pick his spot after the season? Stanton is a different issue because he’s already under contract.
Machado has little incentive to negotiate at this time..
True. The only way MM would agree is if he knew already (as in his agent had already informed him) that the Phillies were prepared to outbid all competition because they were by far the most financially able.
In any case, I don’t see him agreeing to a sign and trade either. And we don’t know that he’s even partial to playing for the Phillies, MacKlentak or not.
The Phillies worked out a long term deal with Halladay when he had only one year remaining on his contract. Halladay traveled to Philadelphia with his agent and took a physical with the Phillies all while still property of the Blue Jays.
I would tend to think Machado will play the market, but there is certainly precedent.
Pitcher = health risks
Hitter = NO health risks.
There is no reason for MM to not become a FA. It will cost him money
This is the dilemma with Machado –
1) Only a contender makes a trade for him now, with or without the extension (which is unlikely, right?). The Phillies have no business doing that since he’s a FA next winter; a trade for him now would cost A LOT, seeming to defeat the purpose of waiting for his looming free agency.
2) BUT what if another club (say, a contender like the Yankees?) manages to persuade him to sign an extension…???
3) A non-contending club – like the Phillies – should only pursue him via trade IF they can sign him to that extension. If they don’t, then what if another big spender (like the Yanks) does?
8mark…if i were Dan Duquette, and of course the owner agrees….the son is now running the Os….I would let Manny and his agent become’ free agents’ next week and talk to any club interested in trading for him and see what they will offer him in the form of $$$ in a contract…..and then take the offers from those teams of players/prospects.
The Os are not challenign for the AL East next year…heck the Rays have more potential right now.
IMO, the Os should take the highest bid for Manny.
Romus, this changes the whole complexion of the winter meetings!
If we’re involved – and it’s reasonable to assume we would considering the prospect of MM’s agreeing to a sign and trade scenario – then we’re talking top prospects being demanded. My hope is that the O’s would settle for a load of good prospects rather than a few of our top prospects, like Crawford, Kingery and Sixto. Not sure how I feel. I’m not convinced that the value of his extension is worth the initial layout of top young talent.
8mark……they may want Franco to replace MM at third and another MLB player….then prospects, as in pitchers. Sixto may be one that may be let go. Depends how bad the team wants Machado.
Dee Gordon traded to the Mariners. Interested to see the return. Hope this opens the market for CeHe
Dee’s full contract goes to Mariners, along with $1,000,000 in international money. Marlins get three prospects. Mariners #2, # 7 and unranked. Not sure if Seattle’s system is worth much though.
That Gordon move – perhaps the first of several salary dumps by the Fish – that might put a slight bit of pressure on Stanton IF he really wants out of Miami. Their bottom line IS the bottom line for now. The stove has been lit. Let’s go, Phillies!
I wonder where the Marlins can find a lead off hitting 2B..
Dan Straily for Cesar? Even deal? Need to add in 4A pitcher? Straily is up for first arb year, money goes up but 3 years of control remain.
29 Yr old Straily isn’t for trade according to Marlins. I Think I read the wrong stats on him, The guy has really good numbers last two years. Marlins if they move him want a lot. I just don’t know if he is worth a lot. like Cesar. Williams and a young pitcher top prospect. might temp them
Forget the Marlins. They don’t want Cesar Hernandez. Even his 4.5 million dollar projected 2018 salary might send Derek Jeter to the poor house. The better question is … who are the Angels going to find to bat lead off and play 2B ? Klentak has the best candidate, and his bargaining position has just gotten much stronger now that Dee Gordon is no longer an option. I’m more convinced than ever CeHe will be hitting in front of Mike Trout next season. He’s an ideal fit for the Angels … high OBP in front of Trout, his base stealing difficulties won’t be an issue because LA isn’t going to want him running much in front of Trout. The only question is does Klentak get a MLB LHP (Skaggs or Heaney) or prospects (Jordan Adell or Brandon Marsh + Jose Soriano) or some combination of both in an expanded deal. Maybe the Phillies even include their remaining 550 thousand J2 dollars to the Angels for an even better return. Those J2 bucks have become gold to the Otani contenders.
Seattle is going to move Gordon to CF. Jerry DiPoto really likes to make trades, doesn’t he? Winter Meetings open Monday and this was just the beginning of what I think will be a lot of moves. I hope Klentak got his rest!
Klentak was Dipoto’s asst in Los Angeles for a few years, and eventually the go between Scioscia and Dipoto as they feuded..
You would think some of that bravado in wheeling and dealing would have rubbed off on him.
Romus, looks like DiPoto is active and is “Sleepless in Seattle”. Wish Klenlak would do anything even if a minor trade.
Matty K. would be wise to start the process of culling the herd. Even Theo started doing it to get that ring. Eventually Luhnow traded prospects for Verlander on the last day of August and got his return. At some point Klentak will need to do that….maybe in late 2019.
Klentak is going to the meeting ? I don’t think he wants to do anything until next year. Another 2million plus seats sold. to watch a team that is 34 games out of first place. ty middleton and klentak
No offense, but you guys are like my wife. I tell her over and over, “Take care of what you need, before you go after what you want”. WE NEED PITCHING. My wife doesn’t listen either.
No. Phillies NEED wins. If you can upgrade 8 positions on the diamond, you upgrade 8 positions on the diamond. Right now, we know we have a negative contributor at third base. If we can replace one of the worst third basemen in the game with a top 5 player in the game, you certainly look into it.
Would you be willing to trade Hoskins, Crawford, Herrera, Williams, etc., for pitching because that’s what we need? No. Needing pitching has nothing to do with upgrading your lineup elsewhere.
Having said that, I feel sorry for your wife. She’s a saint!
roccom, Klentak has to pick up a SP, somehow. They said themselves that they need to, so I cannot see him coming away empty handed. Maybe that is wishful thinking, but I believe that ownership wants more Wins next year and SP is crucial.
Pretty sure its still early December so it’s a little early to be throwing in the towel on getting better for 2018….
Another one off the board, Fiers
With Chatwood going to the Cubs, do you think that makes Cobb gettable since he’s been reportedly a fit for Maddon and Hickey until now? I know it would cost us a 2nd rounder but there’s always the possibility of acquiring a competitive balance pick or two via trades, to make up for it. Or is Cobb overvalued and simply not worth it?
It’s reported that Stanton has given the Marlins a list of 4 teams he’d accept a trade to – LAD, NYY, CHC, HOU. None of these teams are prepared to take on the full freight of his albatross contract. This is where MacKlentak should step in and offer to ‘facilitate’ a deal as the third team. The opportunity is screaming at them, “Hey! Over here!”
8mark – no doubt. If I could buy a prospect from the Dodgers at the same time diminishing the Dodgers as players in the 2018 FA class, I’d come $20mm out of pocket for that
Just playing here:
Phillies take on $70m in salary commitments $27.6 of which would fall from the books after this upcoming season.
Kazmir and his $17.6M for 2018
Mitchell White – 22 RHP prospect
Chen and his $52M over next 3 years
Marcell Ozuna (2nd yr of arb est $10.9M)
Stanton from Marlins
[Salary relief for moving all $17.6 of Kazmir’s contract]
[$20M from Marlins towards Stanton contract]
[Significant salary relief for moving Stanton/Ozuna/Chen contracts]
Technically taking on $81M in contracts, but I think all would agree that the $11 estimated for Ozuna’s arb is a small price to pay for his value as a player
Thompson and Pinto are awful – any Marlins executive that executes this trade should be fired immediately, salary relief notwithstanding. They give up their best two players, including the reigning MVP, and get Thompson and Pinto? The remaining two Marlins fans will go into open revolt.
Catch can you imagine what people would say. if a stupid deal like that was made pinto and Thompson. I rather take money then those two players, both stink
catch – Marlins are $400M in debt. This is a fire sale under the guise of a team trying to get highest return this early in the market. Chen’s contract is an albatross, and the Marlins would do anything to rid themselves of it. Stanton’s contract needs to be moved, and it will be moved, this off-season. Offering Thompson and Pinto is not intended as return value – the biggest ‘get’ for the Marlins is the the removal of $300M in contract obligations
I really think Chen is staying put. Much like Ian Kennedy, he is owed a lot of money over the next three years and he just isn’t worth it. I really don’t see any team entering a rebuild, selling off pieces needed for that rebuild just to get rid of one ugly contract.
Forget Ozuna. Let’s shoot for Yelich. Mitchell White, Nick Williams, Jake Thompson, Maikel Franco and Cesar can go to the Fish. We could also take on Martin Prado and perhaps Ziegler or Tazawa in lieu of Chen.
Steve…Jeter probably wants more than Pinto and Thompson, He indicated that a few weeks ago.
…..FEED ME SEYMOUR, FEED ME!
Stanton told St Louis he won’t waive his no-trade to go there. That increases our involvement in a three way deal, unless of course Klentak is still taking his 8-hour afternoon nap.
Actually I think he is making final preparations for the trip to Florida for the meetings.
Sunday they assemble. So the nap should be over.
Nix on Giants and Cardinals
Keep Dodgers, Add Yankees.
Where are the Phillies? Since the season ended, we’ve hired a new coaching staff (mostly). I think that Juan Samuel will be the first base coach because he knows the players already, and nobody else on the staff shares that.
About a month ago most of us were on board with giving Franco one more year, but yesterday Machado’s name popped up and suddenly everybody wants to trade half the team for him. Machado and Donaldson will both be available at the deadline. As much as I would like to get Archer, from what I’ve heard the Rays want a King’s ransom for him. Now that Dee Gordon has been traded, perhaps the Marlins would be interested in Cesar Hernandez for Dan Straily.
I think the Phillies had a definite strategy in mind when they hired this coaching staff. They have two hitting coaches and three pitching coaches. With a young pitching staff that runs hot and cold more time is needed for them to develop. The best way to do this would be to have a shut down bullpen. This is where I’d spend the money. It’s not as glamorous as making a big splash, but it could pay off if Lively, Pivetta, Eflin, or Eickhoff take a step or two forward.
Phillies drop perkins from 40man roster. who the hell is the other guy I cant remember him
Where did you see this?
Maybe they like someone available in rule 5. I’d take Nick Burdi from the Twins.
Who is engelb vielma.>>?????????
Rocco … I think you mean this guy.
They may be Rule 5 pickin next Thursday.
Klentak is bound to get one right, one of these days…odds are in his favor.
Or maybe they’re close to signing a FA pitcher. I was thinking Jake McGee, but I would think they would drop Zac Curtis if they signed McGee. My FA, short term pitcher choice has been CC Sabathia. The Yankees want to get under the luxury tax threshold. Klentak should offer Sabathia 18 million for one year, and add a vesting option (180 IP).
Brock Stassi signed by the Twins
OH no not stasis.
Ohtani to angels
With Ohtani going to the Angels, and if he lives up to his hype, does this mean we may not see Mike Trout in philadelphia!
I Think trout is off the table. They went after this guy plus took prospect from braves. angels rebuild fast, Plus trouts future wife is trying to be a model. and actress,
No she’s not.
LOL…I think docco is trolling yuo.
I believe she is an elementary school teacher.
Yeah I needed to start a rumor. something to stop the crazy trades. She is a teacher and I read she is already doing charity work with other angels wife in California’
I think that may be an oversimplification of the future for Trout. There are 23 other players on the Angels besides him and Ohtani. This move certainly makes them a bit more formidable in the AL West but their farm is still one of the worst in MLB. Let’s get some perspective. I do, however, feel better about getting a really good SP either by trade (CeHe to LAA?) and/or FA.
Didn’t we just get Vielma from somewhere this off season? I think Klentak plans to be active at the Winter Meetings. There were 3 or 4 guys that I thought were mentioned as Rule V possibilties, 1 from the Yanks? My 1st choice in FA is still Yu Darvish. We can sell him on our potential WS appearance in 2019!
Twins was his original org.
Phillies pick third next week, so they get one of the better Rule 5 guys.
The good thing…..rarely does the first pick, Giants have it if they are playing next week, ever really develop into an impactful player. Then again the overall success rate in this draft is probably very negligible anyway.
I can see it now with the third pick. the phillies pass.
Matt why do you think that? what has he done to make you think that? he is not going to do anything major. just those hope we hit on pitchers with injuries or older vets he hopes to flip in off season. he sucks
Dropping 2 from 40 definitely means we’ll take someone in rule 5. It could also mean they’re about to sign someone. Perkins was a placeholder for the 4th OF. Is there a better option available in rule 5? Vielma was a placeholder for a backup IF. Florimon will need that spot, as a starter possibly for two months or maybe just as a back up. If Cesar/Galvis get traded, their 40 spots will be available also.
However, they might try to keep Perkins at AAA.
I think Angels getting Ohtani ups their desire to get Cesar, while also making a pitcher available. Good result for Phillies. Also, Mariners have lots of international money available to throw at remaining former Braves prospects. That could hurt Phils as they try to sign another player.
Well you know who is happy now…..Mike Trout must be happy.
A wedding gift..a day early
With Ohtani and Maitan now in the fold….Angels have a really rosy future outlook.
Of course, Ohtani becomes a free agent in two years in 2020 so Angels will need to open up their pocket books a little wider if he is as advertised. And then comes Trout soon after.
Yeah I wasn’t happy to see Otahni sign with the Angels, makes it harder to pry Trout away. He is definitely not getting traded before he is a FA now. Lol … Let’s hope his relationship with Wentz is thicker than blood. Drag him back The east coast. He is here enough 🙂
Romus … as Billy Idol once said, tomorrow is going to be a “nice day for a white wedding” for the Trouts.
Murray is correct again. The Otani signing makes the Angels more able to trade a MLB pitcher (Skaggs) for CeHe.
Guiellermo Zuniga signed with the Dodgers.
I thought Phillies had a chance with him
Only pitcher left now from the Braves list is Juan Contreras.
I am hoping you are correct Murray. If the Angels don’t want Cesar, I am hard pressed to figure out a spot for him. I have “player acquisition fever”. I want a trade and a FA signing and a Rule V pick up out of this Meetings.
That fever is spreading … Lol I’m checking this sites out way too much
“I want a trade and a FA signing …..of this Meetings”……
Matt Klentak’s old boss Jerry Dipoto has been the Mariners GM for 26 months….he has made 61 trades/transactions…..he may get paid by the trade..
Though losing Ohtani had to be a blow to them….though they now have lots of int’l money to spend.
Romus, I would love to have DiPoto as GM up until the point that I expected a Championship! But it sure would be fun! I would like MattK to show us he has the sggressiveness you need to win. It still takes a bold move or 2 and I am ready for his first.
I understand the Phillies system is much stronger than the Mariners, none the less, if Matt Klentak traded two of our top 10 prospects for Dee Gordon and announced Gordon was our new starting CF’er, most of this board would be marching to CBP with pitchforks.
I hope Klentak continues to be patient. Sign one FA pitcher (Sabathia?) to a short term deal, deal CeHe (for either another MLB SP or a couple of high ceiling prospects), give the young guys plenty of playing time next season, and then attack next winter’s FA class.
One other thing I want Klentak to do next week … agree to a deal that would net the Phillies a comp pick at the beginning of next season. The easy one is agree to eat Edinson Volquez’s contract for Miami’s comp B pick.
Hinkie I thought MK said no more 1 yr contract’s. I believe he said this will be his first yr that the Phillies are going to sign FA to longer contracts.
I’ll believe it when i see it lol
Yankees are in advanced talks for Stanton according to multiple reports. Can we play?
They were talking on MLB Network this week about prospective teams where Stanton would look most dangerous. I felt it was clearly the Yankees who will be able to run out Judge, Stanton, and Sanchez as their 3-4-5. They’re might be 140+ HRs in that trio next year
And it would take them out of Harper sweepstakes in a year. Phillies fans would love Harper, if he played for us…. it would take a record contract.
I’m not sure about that. For me, at least, there are some athletes (and people, for that matter) that I want no part of regardless of their level of talent. Two notable examples being Sidney Crosby and the aforementioned Harper.
Are they great talents? Surely. Do I want them on my team? Nope.
Harper I am also very hesitant on…..plays so hard gets hurt too much.
Somebody ought to show him video of Bobby Abreu playing.
Though i think the Nats will keep him someway.
Dan, get over it. You would love either player playing in Philly. I hated Pete rose on the Reds, he was worse than Harper. He was awesome on the Phils and beloved.
I really wouldn’t. Papelbon was nothing short of a monster out of the ‘pen for us. We still couldn’t wait to get rid of him because he was a douche.
And with Harper, I’d rather have Machado for that kind of money. Better skill set, better position.
Yup. Yanks went out and got Stanton. We are sitting here worrying about what we should get for Tommy Joseph and Freddy Galvis. Hoping to sign a mediocre pitcher. Feels like the rest of the league is playing chess and we’re playing checkers. What a joke. Feels kinda stupid to be hoping for a comp pick trade, now doesn’t it?
Can somebody photoshop a picture of Rob Thomson in Phillies gear. I’m starting to hate him, and haven’t met him yet.
Cashman plays chess.phillies play checkers.
Klentak was quoted as saying they’re having conversations and hoping to push something over the goal line within the next week. Can’t say I’m expecting to get excited about whomever it will be. Hasn’t shown us much. Hope he proves me wrong.
I believe the Angels will be pushing harder for a 2nd baseman. If I were the Angels Cesar would be my top choice to slot in front of Trout and Pujols to set the table. Skaggs could probably be nabbed and there a few minor league arms or an OF that could be added to the package. Not sure if they have enough
Stanton to Yankees is apparently a done deal. Stay tuned….
Jeter continues to help the Yankees win
This is a boss move by cashman, no wonder why he just got the extension. Honestly, how do you beat that yankees lineup in the playoffs? Phillies better get another 4 Aces …
Klentak needs to wakeup, the baseball landscape is changing. Machado looks like a must a this point.
And maybe Harper too
I’d say they are out on Harper, but yeah, if that happens, i might just stop watching baseball for about a decade. I think the cubs would get him over the yankess. At this point, harper might want to try LA, or LAA.
Starting to look like Klentak is going to have to go all in on Machado.
Kingery, Crawford, Machado, Hoskins, and Hansley? IF that happens and they pan out, I would feel alot better. The pitching needs to step up too.
Harper and the Cubs is what I would bet on.
Judge-Stanton-Sanchez all righties, I imagine there is a way to combat that
Ohtani picked a team, Stanton traded, now the Winter Meetings can start with those obstacles out of the way! I hope Matt K is ready to roll. Expecting a flurry of activity this week! Yes, roccom, I am taking the optimistic approach, and hope it is not just wishful thinking..
Could Shohri Otani show up in Millville, today ?
How do you say “no way” in Japanese?
Ohanti in Millville? Perhaps, but first he will want to see the Rocky statue.
It’s scary how good and how young the Astros, Indians, and the Yankees will be.
I long for the days from ’07 to 2011 when the Phils were among the handful of relevant teams in the Majors. This patience of mine has run out. There are young, really good teams out there, and I want The Phils to add talent, starting this off season. I am not panicking and trading our top guys for a few wins. But, I expect to see a couple of the mid-level prospects go for a Major League talent, I expect a multi-year FA SP signing, and I expect some of the middle infield logjam to be dissipated.
matt13……who knows, if things fall right, Manny could be a Phillie by this time next week. That should cheer you up a little in this holiday season.
Matt13 I feel your pain because I waited 30 years for a Phillies Championship. It’s my opinion that the Phillies are much closer to being relevant that Phillies fans think. The regular players are pretty solid, except for Franco, and Williams. With 2 new hitting coaches, we can hope that both will improve at the plate. The obvious problem is starting pitching. Fortunately for the Phillies, the game has evolved in recent years. Teams no longer look for complete games, or 200 innings from their starters. The Phillies should spend their money in the bullpen this winter. I like McGee and Nicasio. The Phillies also have 3 former pitchers on their coaching staff and I believe we’ll see improvement in some of our young pitchers. The Marlins recently traded Dee Gordon, and that means that they need a leadoff hitter and second baseman. Cesar for Dan Straily sounds good to me. A lot of people want to give up half the team to get Machado right now. We’ve waited this long for Franco, a couple of more months won’t hurt. Both Machado and Donaldson will be available at the trade deadline.
WaWa….why would the Marlins want both Starlin Castro and Cesar?
Unless Jeter and Mattingly plan on moving Castro back to shortstop.
Cesar is limited to just second base it would appear.
How is Williams not solid? He doesn’t walk a ton but he’s been pretty damn good
Yankees have a Judge’s Chamber and now add on a Stanton Island!
Yankees give up 2 lower level prospects, Castro, and eat all but $35 Million. That seems like a very modest return for the Marlins. With all of the Yankees top prospects, Marlins came away with none.
matt13….if those lower level prospects are players like Medina, Periera, Then or Dermis Garcia…..well they could be bonafide prospects in 2/3 years since they are teenagers now with high ceilings..
Guzman and Jose Devers. I am not saying they are bad prospects, but the Yanks are loaded and gave up none of their top guys for Stanton. They can move Gleyber Torres right into 2B or trade for Cesar! I just think it was a very light return for the Marlins.
Yankees eat a good portion of the contract. Marlins were never going to get a prospect return at the same time looking to move 90% of the contract risk
matt13…..Guzman does run it up there at 99-100…….with an excellent whiff ratio….and as a starter. Devers is the unknown quantity as a middle infielder down the road.
But yuo are correct…Guzman was number 9 in their system and Devers in the 30s somewhere.
This is what you can do when the Yankees went out in ’14 and dropped $17M on Latin players. They can become assets in trade.
The Marlins may have Derek Jeter fronting the team, but they are doing the same thing Loria did. With the Braves issues, Mets injuries, and Marlins teardown, the Phils should be positioned to move up in the Division and be not too far awat from a WC run. That is, of course, dependent on the continued development of players, the ascension of others and Klentak adding some SP to the team. WaWa Mike may be right about not being that far from relevance again, but it requires Klentak to be good at his job and a little luck also.
With Stanton gone, the Phillies won’t finish last. I read last summer when the Stanton rumors started that Klentak liked Yellich better. How about Williams, Lively, and Tocci for Straily.
OOPS. and Yellich.
Why would the Marlins do that? Yelich is worth more than that package on his own.
Plus: there’s red flags with Williams (which I assume is why you wanna trade him); Lively is gonna be 26 soon and hasn’t established himself as a major league pitcher; and Tocci could be taken for free in the rule 5 in a few days.
All this to say, the Marlins would get no value for two established major league players; one of whom is a legitimate all star candidate.
I really do not get all the negativity of some, on this board, have for Williams.
The guy will probably hit 25/30 HRs…plays an above average corner..and in 2500PAs in the minors he slashed at a .286/.331/.478 cli[p.
His secondary peripherals were bad but he was still able to have an average OBP thru his entire minor league career.
And with wrists like he has…..IMO it is a huge mistake letting him go in a package as filler value.
He will not make an All-Star team but he can be staedy and productive as a corner.
If you liked Garrett Anderson when he was an Angel….you will like ths guy.
I’m not being negative, just realistic. I’d rather hold onto Williams, personally. The bat speed is crazy, and even though defensive metrics haven’t liked him thus far the eye test does. He seems like he’ll fall into the 2-3 WAR range if he makes adjustments as he seems to have done in the minors
BUT if you had Yelich, would you give him up for a player that didn’t even crack a .340 OBP with a .375 BABIP, struck out almost 30% of the time, and walked less than 6%? I wouldn’t. Not in a hundred years. There’s some upside to Williams, but realistically even his upper end projection falls short of Yelich. That’s not a knock on him, 4.5 WAR position players are just hard to come by. Only 25 managed it last year.
Agreed, Romus. Not sure why people dislike Williams so much. I think some had their opinion about him from the year before so they’re sticking to the negative opinion in hopes he doesn’t succeed
DanK…..agree, Williams is not the equal of Yelich.
There also is the slight age difference in Williams favor. And power wise….IMO, Williams plays better at a corner than Yelich.
But overall production…laregly favors Yelich.
I would like to see how Williams does this second season..if he can stay equivalent to last years production or improve.
TrollU….KLaw in spring 2016 was pretty down on him..that is…..’he is a prospect just not a good one’. that resonates and stays with a lot of people and with Williams, there is that feeling of just waiting for the hammer to fall, and he takes a nose dive into mediocrity.
And he’s a really good guy
Romus – I agree. Trading Williams today is akin to trading a Hoskins, or an Alfaro, or a Crawford, it goes against logic for a team taking its first step out of a rebuild. He’s the lefty power bat to compliment Hoskins – he’s a perfect fit on this team right now. The Phillies have sooo many tradeable assets right now to subtract from those who are starting to contribute at the major league level.
For all intents and purposes, Hoskins, Williams, Crawford, Kingery, Nola, Alfaro, and Altherr are untouchable as far as I’m concerned.
We move up cause there is a team who wont spend money. Middleton loves this he doesn’t have to spend money to win maybe 75games
He will spend money. He’s even said he wants to spend. I believe him.
What he says, means nothing. He could eat a ton of money we are big market. act like little market/ disgrace
Hope you’re wrong
When Ruben dropped $4M shekles on Jhailyn Ortiz in 2015….I thought okay here we go. They will now get into the big boy spending league. Of course, the following year CBA put an end to that spending.
Now come the FA pitchers….ie Darvish, and so far it has not come about like that.
Romus did you see .Halladays son signed to play at pennstate
Darvish stinks, very overrated
dropping gobs of money on a starter this year is not ideal but not out of the question. Finding a good young controllable starter via a likely trade is probably better. Even if that starter is likely going to be slotted behind Nola in rotation. Nola is only 1/5th of the rotation so finding 1 or 2 other starters that can be counted on for 2019, 2020, and possibly longer is best. Then next year I could see the team hit the FA market and/or trade market for 2 starters, a prime time bat, and possibly any reliever upgrade. That could be in area of $75 mil a year ~ and still have money to spend if needed
LOL…a 19WAR pitcher over 5 years.
Phillies could have used more of those stinkers 😉
No, Roccom, he will spend money and a lot of it. It may not happen when you want it to happen but it will happen.
I’m starting to get into a “believe it when I see it” when it comes to middleton and this team spending
didn’t spend in international market when they could have
wont spend on free agent pitchers because we’re not ready
seems like always an excuse not to spend
They can’t really spend in the international market. The new CBA sets a limit…. and they have spent most of their limit
srussel, the Phils actually signed four of the top 50 international players last year, including SS Luis Garcia who is ranked already as the #24 prospect even though he has yet to play a professional game. Also signed Simon Muzziotti away from the Red Sox prior to that.
New York Daily News says the Mets will try to trade for Castro. Maybe CeHe could be headed to Miami, after all.
Interesting thought. The plot thickens.
I thought this too but I still think they are keeping him to trade for pitching ?
Castro wouldn’t be a popular name in Miami. Just a hunch.
The Angels have got to be going for it all with the Ohtani signing. They still need a second baseman, and we have one, but do they need a backup catcher too? Do they have anything to offer us in return?
The Marlins got Castro in the Stanton trade, but are expected to flip him to the Mets. That means that the Marlins and Yankees need a second baseman. Anybody else out there looking for a second baseman this year?
I wouldn’t mind the Phillies getting a mid-level starter this winter, but I’d prefer a young, solid bullpen arm instead. I could see the Phillies starting the season with Nola, Eickhoff, Velasquez, Pivetta, and Lively (with Thompson, Eflin, and Eshelman in the wings). We really need to know what these guys may become. Last year was just not a large enough sample size. At times they looked awful, and at other times they looked like studs. Maybe that’s all they will ever be, who knows? Two words: Fergusson Jenkins (look it up).
I believe both could be had this year.
I do think MK will do a deal of some sort with Marlins. I would guess we should see xxx + Martin Prado coming back as a salary dump and possibly even Ziegler as a mature bullpen operative.
Prado would be a good PH and backup infielder.
In April, Klentak sends a non-prospect to Jeter for Edinson Volquez (1 yr @ 13 million) and Miami’s comp B pick (and maybe a lottery ticket).
I’m not sure, but from the looks of Ryan Lawrence’s twitter, it appears he is no longer employed by PhillyVoice.com and is now a FA Phillies reporter. If true, this is a blow for Phillies fans. Ryan has always seemed like a good guy and a credible source for Phillies information.
Jim … you can just delete my post above. I forgot posts with three (or more) links are held up awaiting moderation. I’ll break it up into two posts here:
I’m not sure, but from the looks of Ryan Lawrence’s twitter, it appears he is no longer employed by PhillyVoice.com and is now a FA Phillies reporter. If true, this is a blow for Phillies fans. Ryan has always seemed like a good guy and a credible source for Phillies information.
… and another one bites the dust. I miss the days of my youth when we had The Inquirer, The Bulletin, The Daily News, and the Courier Post. We had Jim Barniak, Bill Conlin, Stan Hochman, Bill Lyons, Allen Lewis, and even Angelo Cataldi. Are you aware that before he moved to radio (to become an asshole), he was a great writer. Every day we had several new stories about the Phillies, and the offseason didn’t drag on like it does now. No offense to the bloggers out there, but the electronic age which opened doors for them, has closed many doors for current sports writers. I’d love to see all of the currently fired writers form a group and open a website. There are enough big time names that attracting sponsors wouldn’t be a problem.
My wish list for the next week:
1 FA arm
1 trade for another arm
1 lefty reliever
1 surprise bat
1 rule 5 pickup, preferably from NYY
I’ll be extremely dissatisfied with less than 3 of the above, but I don’t expect all 5 at the same time.
I think Phillies prospect left unprotected, Austin Davis, could be selected…..a big lefty with swing and miss capability, out of the pen, can be attractive for some teams. He really did well the last few months at Reading last year.
I am with you 8 mark, trade, FA,veteran RP, I will take lefty or righty, Rule V pick, is my requirement for week or shortly thereafter
Trading International Bonus Money:
Wish Matt Klentak and the Phillies would get more involved in this…that is…obtaining more money for Latin player acquisitions..
Romus how was the wedding yesterday? I Was wondering how Mikes new bride looked.
Romus, I have no idea why this article says NA for the Phillies trades of Kendrick and Hellickson. They actually did receive a good bit of international money in those trades. And again, they got four (4) of the top fifty (50) international prospects. Still enough left to sign Abrahan Gutierrez. I guess Klentak should be fired for such a poor showing.
Hari … the NA means the clubs didn’t announce the amount of J2 money traded.
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