Open Discussion: Week of November 26th

The hot stove season continues.  There was a flurry of transactions as the Phillies set their 40-man roster before the November 20th deadline.

The Phillies added an assistant hitting coach to the major league staff.

Former Phillies RHP Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez was killed in a car accident in his native Cuba.

The commissioner levied penalties against the Atlanta Braves for international signing violations.

Organizational News and Changes

The Phillies added four pitching prospects to their 40-man roster – RHP Seranthony Dominguez, Franklyn Kilome, Jose Taveras, and LHP Ranger Suarez.  They also claimed infielder Engelb Vielma off waivers.  To make room, they  designated RHP Mark Appel and Alberto Tirado for assignment and outrighted LHP Elniery Garcia.  The 40-man roster stands at 40 players.

The Phillies announced that Pedro Guerrero will be the assistant hitting coach.  Guerrero joins Dusty Wathan (third base coach), John Mallee (hitting coach), and Jim Gott (bullpen coach) as new members of the coaching staff.  Assistant pitching coach Rick Kranitz has been retained in an as yet unspecified role.

The Phillies confirmed the death of Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez in this report.

The Braves were stripped of their rights to 12 prospects, will be capped at $10K per player for the 2019-20 signing period, will not be allowed to sign Robert Puason whom they had made an improper deal, will have Ji-Hwan Bae’s contract disapproved due to extra compensation, and will be limited to only half of its international spending cap for the 2020-21 period.  Additionally, Atlanta will lose their third round pick in the 2018 draft for offering extra benefits to a 2017 draft pick.  Former GM John Coppolella was handed a lifetime ban and former special assistant Gordon Blakeley was suspended for one year. Kevin Maitan is the most notable among the 12 prospects they lost (full story).

This week the Phillies are reported to have interest in LHP Jake McGee, (story).

And, this week’s Stanton news from MLB Trade rumors’ Kyle Downing.

Winter Ball

Winter ball stats are available here.

The Liga de Béisbol Profesional Roberto Clemente will play a shortened, 21-game schedule with 4 teams beginning on January 6, 2018.

About half of the 37 players are still playing in the other winter leagues as you can see by the Last Date column below.

Batters Last Date Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
Cabral, Edgar Nov. 15 GDD AFL 0.298 14 47 2 14 2 0 0 4 3 13 0 0 0.353 0.340 0.693
Green, Zach Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0.258 18 62 10 16 4 0 2 6 4 20 0 0 0.324 0.419 0.743
Randolph, Cornelius Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0.239 19 71 10 17 4 1 0 8 7 20 2 1 0.308 0.324 0.632
Campbell, Derek Nov. 25 CAI COL 0.278 17 72 4 20 2 1 0 6 4 17 0 2 0.316 0.333 0.649
Martin, Kyle Nov. 25 CAI COL 0.297 17 64 8 19 3 0 1 5 8 10 0 1 0.392 0.391 0.783
Alfaro, Jorge Nov. 24 TOR COL 0.375 9 32 4 12 1 0 1 7 3 8 0 0 0.444 0.500 0.944
Cumana, Grenny Nov. 25 TOR COL 0.266 17 64 6 17 2 0 0 8 3 6 0 0 0.310 0.297 0.607
Gamboa, Arquimedes Nov. 25 TOR COL 0.214 17 56 2 12 3 0 0 6 7 15 1 1 0.302 0.268 0.570
Williams, Luke Nov. 25 TOR COL 0.268 17 71 9 19 2 0 0 3 10 19 2 1 0.366 0.296 0.662
Alvarez, Eliezer Nov. 25 ESC DWL 0.158 10 19 4 3 0 0 0 0 1 7 1 0 0.238 0.158 0.396
Moore, Logan Nov. 24 EST DWL 0.154 11 26 6 4 1 0 0 2 4 11 0 0 0.267 0.192 0.459
Perkins, Cameron Nov. 1 GIG DWL 0.258 9 31 9 8 3 0 0 3 5 3 1 0 0.351 0.355 0.706
Quinn, Roman Oct. 22 TOR DWL 0.125 6 16 2 2 1 0 0 0 2 5 0 0 0.222 0.188 0.410
Walding, Mitch Nov. 12 MOC LMP 0.228 23 79 9 18 4 0 3 10 16 23 0 2 0.365 0.392 0.757
Blanco, Andres Nov. 25 MAG LVBP 0.341 32 123 25 42 7 1 3 10 18 28 2 3 0.456 0.488 0.944
Alastre, Jesus Nov. 5 ARA VWL 0.176 13 17 3 3 0 0 0 0 1 4 0 0 0.222 0.176 0.399
Vielma, Engelb Nov. 24 ARA VWL 0.179 12 28 3 5 0 1 0 0 3 5 0 0 0.281 0.250 0.531
Gomez, Jose Nov. 25 LAG VWL 0.158 16 38 3 6 0 0 1 4 2 5 2 0 0.220 0.237 0.456
Tromp, Jiandido Oct. 24 MAG VWL 0.185 11 27 2 5 1 0 0 2 5 8 1 1 0.313 0.222 0.535
Duran, Carlos Oct. 26 MAR VWL 0.250 11 36 8 9 0 0 0 3 3 9 0 2 0.300 0.250 0.550
Rivas, Raul Nov. 8 MAR VWL 0.250 12 36 6 9 0 0 0 1 0 6 0 1 0.250 0.250 0.500
Brito, Daniel Nov. 4 ZUL VWL 0.273 16 44 3 12 0 1 0 4 4 11 0 1 0.333 0.318 0.652
Pitchers Last Date Team League ERA  GS  CG  SV  SVO  IP  ER  HR  BB  SO  WHIP  AVG 
Bettencourt, Trevor Nov. 14 GDD AFL 0 1 10.13 8 0 0 1 1 8 10 9 9 0 3 9 1.63 0.294
Brown, Aaron Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0 0 3.00 3 0 0 0 0 3 5 1 1 0 2 2 2.33 0.385
Cleavinger, Garrett Nov. 16 GDD AFL 0 1 6.35 11 0 0 0 0 11.1 14 10 8 0 4 10 1.59 0.311
Garcia, Elniery Oct. 28 GDD AFL 1 2 5.79 4 4 0 0 0 14 15 9 9 1 4 13 1.36 0.268
Hammer, J.D. Nov. 15 GDD AFL 0 0 0.66 10 0 0 3 3 13.2 4 1 1 0 7 11 0.80 0.093
Campbell, Derek Nov. 25 CAI COL 0 0 9.00 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 2.00 0.250
Brown, Casey Nov. 21 TOR COL 1 0 2.01 4 4 0 0 0 22.1 20 7 5 0 5 14 1.12 0.233
Paulino, Felix Nov. 25 TOR COL 1 1 3.80 5 4 0 0 0 21.1 24 10 9 1 3 30 1.27 0.279
Casimiro, Ranfi Nov. 7 AGU LIDOM 0 0 0.00 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.00 0.333
Kilome, Franklyn Nov. 22 ESC LIDOM 0 4 7.64 6 6 0 0 0 17.2 26 15 15 3 7 17 1.87 0.347
Windle, Tom Nov. 7 ESC LIDOM 1 2 7.20 10 0 0 0 1 5 7 4 4 0 4 3 2.20 0.318
Garcia, Edgar Nov. 25 EST LIDOM 0 0 0.00 3 0 0 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 1 3 0.50 0.083
Dominguez, Seranthony Nov. 21 GIG LIDOM 1 0 4.91 6 0 0 0 0 7.1 7 5 4 1 7 8 1.91 0.259
Curtis, Zac Nov. 19 LIC LIDOM 4 2 4.05 16 0 0 0 1 13.1 13 7 6 0 6 17 1.43 0.277
Rivero, Alexis Nov. 24 ara/zul LVBP 0 1 8.59 8 0 0 0 0 7.1 9 7 7 1 2 7 1.50 0.300
Llovera, Mauricio Nov. 17 ORI LVBP 1 1 4.91 11 0 0 0 1 14.2 10 8 8 0 8 9 1.23 0.200

Spring Training

The Phillies’ spring training schedule has been released.  Since last week, another date has been added, a March 19th game against Boston at Fort Myers.  The remaining two open dates are now being called Off Days, March 6th and 15th.    

  • Thursday, February 22 v. University of Tampa at Spectrum Field
  • Friday, February 23rd at Toronto in Dunedin
  • Saturday, February 24th v. Baltimore at Spectrum Field
  • Sunday, February 25th v. New York at Spectrum Field
  • Monday, February 26th at New York in Tampa (night)
  • Tuesday, February 27th v. Detroit at Spectrum Field
  • Wednesday, February 28th at Toronto in Dunedin
  • Thursday, March 1st v. New York at Spectrum Field
  • Friday, March 2nd at Tampa in Port Charlotte
  • Saturday, March 3rd v. Baltimore at Spectrum Field (split squad)
  • Saturday, March 3rd at Pittsburgh in Bradenton (split squad)
  • Sunday, March 4th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field
  • Monday, March 5th v. Minnesota at Spectrum Field
  • Tuesday, March 6th TBA or Bye
  • Wednesday, March 7th v. Boston at Spectrum Field
  • Thursday, March 8th at New York in Tampa
  • Friday, March 9th v. Pittsburgh at Spectrum Field
  • Saturday, March 10th v. Tampa at Spectrum Field
  • Sunday, March 11th at Baltimore in Sarasota(night)
  • Monday, March 12th at Atlanta in Orlando (night)
  • Tuesday, March 13th v. Tampa at Spectrum Field
  • Wednesday, March 14th at Atlanta in Orlando
  • Thursday, March 15th TBA or Bye
  • Friday March 16th at Detroit in Lakeland (split squad)
  • Friday March 16th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field (split squad)
  • Saturday, March 17th v. Atlanta at Spectrum Field
  • Sunday, March 18th at Minnesota in Fort Myers
  • Monday, March 19th at Boston in Fort Myers
  • Tuesday, March 20th v. Toronto at Spectrum Field
  • Wednesday, March 21st at Toronto in Dunedin
  • Thursday, March 22nd v. Detroit at Spectrum Field
  • Friday, March 23rd at Pittsburgh in Bradenton
  • Saturday, March 24th at Detroit in Lakeland
  • Sunday, March 25th v.Baltimore at Spectrum Field
  • Monday, March 26th at Pittsburgh in Bradenton
  • Tuesday, March 27th v. Pittsburgh at Spectrum Field

Key Dates:

  • December 1, 8:00 PM EST – Deadline for teams to tender contracts to unsigned players on their 40-man rosters, including arbitration-eligible players.  Non-tendered players become free agents.  Tendered players who are arbitration eligible who do not accept the tender proceed to the arbitration process in February.
  • December 10-14 – Winter Meetings at the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort in Orlando, Florida.
  • December 14, 9:00 AM EST – Rule 5 draft.
  • January 9, 2018 – Salary arbitration filing deadline
  • January 12, 2018 – Salary arbitration figures exchanged
  • January 29 – February 16, 2018 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix, Arizona
  • February 13, 2018 – earliest date for pitchers/catchers to report to Spring Training
  • February 18, 2018 – earliest date for all other players to report for full squad workouts
  • February 22, 2018 – Tentative date for the start of Grapefruit League games
  • March 29, 2018 – Opening Day for the 2018 season
  • March 29, 2018 – Phillies opening game in Atlanta
  • April 5, 2018 – Phillies home opener v. Miami
  • April 15, 2018 – Jackie Robinson Day
  • April 17-18, 2018 – Twins v. Indians at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan, PR
  • May 13, 2018 – Mother’s Day events, all host ballparks
  • June 4-6, 2018 – 2018 MLB Draft
  • June 17, 2018 – Father’s Day events, all host ballparks
  • July 13-17, 2018 – All-Star Week
  • July 17, 2018 – 89th All Star Game, at Nationals Park
  • August 19, 2018 – Phillies v. Mets in the Little League Classic in Williamsport.
  • December 10-13, 2018 – Winter Meetings in Las Vegas, Nevada

Off Season Transactions (recently reported transactions in bold): (40-man stands at 40)

  • 11/20 – Phillies claimed SS Engelb Vielma off waivers from San Francisco Giants
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Franklyn Kilome from Lehigh Valley
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Seranthony Dominguez from Clearwater
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Ranger Suarez from Clearwater
  • 11/20 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Jose Taveras from Reading
  • 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Mark Appel for assignment
  • 11/20 – Phillies designated RHP Alberto Tirado for assignment
  • 11/20 – Phillies sent LHP Elniery Garcia outright to Lehigh Valley
  • 11/14 – Williamsport Crosscutters released CF Juan Luis
  • 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
  • 11/6 – CF Herlis Rodriguez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Brock Stassi elected free agency
  • 11/6 – C Nick Rickles elected free agency
  • 11/6 – LHP Cesar Ramos elected free agency
  • 11/6 – SHP Pat Venditte elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Michael Mariot elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 3B Hector Gomez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – SS Angelo Mora elected free agency
  • 11/6 – LF Christian Marrero elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Colton Murray elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Miguel Nunez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Harold Martinez elected free agency
  • 11/6 – C Chace Numata elected free agency
  • 11/6 – 1B Wilson Garcia elected free agency
  • 11/6 – RHP Jesen Therrien elected free agency
  • 11/6 – CF Pedro Florimon elected free agency
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Vince Velasquez from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Jerad Eickhoff from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies activated RHP Zach Eflin from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/6 – Phillies sent RHP Jesen Therrien outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 11/6 – Phillies sent CF Pedro Florimon outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 11/2 – RF Hyun Soo Kim elected free agency
  • 11/2 – LF Daniel Nava elected free agency
  • 11/2 – 3B Andres Blanco elected free agency
  • 11/2 – RHP Clay Buchholz elected free agency
  • 11/2 – Phillies activated RHP Jesen Therrien from the 60-day disabled list
  • 11/2 – Phillies activated CF Pedro Florimon from the 60-day disabled list
  • 10/30-11/6 – Logan Moore re-signed with the Phillies
  • 9/30-10/13 – Ranfi Casimiro re-signed with the Phillies
  • 10/13 – Pedro Beato elected free agency
  • 10/5 – Kevin Segrist elected free agency
  • 10/5 – Ty Kelly elected free agency
  • 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent LHP Kevin Siegrist outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 10/4 – Philadelphia Phillies sent 2B Ty Kelly outright to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 9/16-29 – Mitch Walding re-signed with the Phillies
  • The organization’s rosters are up to date.
  • The organization’s injury list retains the injuries at the end of the 2017 season.  All are expected to be okay by the start of spring training except Jesen Therrien.  He is expected to miss the entire 2018 season.
  • The organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list is as accurate as I can make it.

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.


229 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of November 26th

  1. No mercy for the Braves. However, only a fool would believe that it didn’t go a lot higher up. A GM, who was hated by everybody, made for an easy scapegoat.

  2. Among those playing winter league ball, Alfaro is the most encouraging at a .944 OPS. (SSS but 3 BBs in under 40 PAs!) If there’s one guy who hits close to his ceiling, he’ll have a huge impact on this team’s future. At the other end of the spectrum, Kilome was very disappointing. Even before winter ball, he’d dropped from my top 10. Now, toward 20 like an anchor.

  3. Alfaro is enjoying some home cooking…fo sho! I’m more interested to see if he can clean up his defense just a little bit.

  4. Alfaro. A catcher that can’t catch. Doesn’t walk. Won’t hit for average. And maybe pops 20-25 homers in a time when homerun totals are up across the league. No thanks. Sell high while there is still potential value to be had.

    1. Didn’t Tom McC. compare Alf to Yankees’ Gary Sanchez at one point late in the season? Perhaps I am wrong on that.
      But looking at their minor league resume…Alf has a little ways to go offensively before he should be mentioned in Sanchez’s company…especially when it comes to the basic hit tool of K% and BB%.
      Alfaro: MiLB
      Gary Sanchez: MiLB

      1. Yeah it’s not even close. Gary hit 50 homeruns in his first 170(?) games. Highly doubt Alfaro will come close. Two totally different ballplayers.

  5. I wonder since the non tender date is late this week if any Phils get non tendered; Joseph? Rupp? I doubt any do.

      1. An AL team that could use a combo 1st/DH with some pop should be targeted by this current Phillies regime and then try to sell ToJo to them….perhaps a small market team would be willing to relinquish a CBA pick for him….Indians are losing Santana it appears, maybe they would let go of their 37th or so pick…..heck I would even take a large cache of int’l money in the exchange at the least.

        1. I don’t know Romus. In extended playing time Joseph was worth -1.3bWAR and carried a .289 obp. I think you could find a beer league first baseman to put up similar numbers. Why give away money or a pick?

          A right handed, platoon, first baseman with negative value can’t possibly be of any team’s interest. Especially one with World Series hopes.

          1. I can understand the pick since it does have value, however, one team has no interest right now in signing int’ players…Baltimore….and just wants players, though mostly pitchers however, in return.
            Andt they just gave up $500K for a minor league 24/25 -year of pitcher…I would hope or think ToJo could at least get that much in trade.
            That could get you a 16-year old….of course a lottery prospect at that point, but something.

        2. Would you be happy if the Phillies gave up the 37th pick for TJ???

          At best, they should hope to get some some international money or a A-ball lottery ticket

      2. What are you talking about? He’s cheap and he has some power. He’s a bench bat who can hit a punch homer on occasion and who can play 1B some times, with Hoskins moving to LF those days. He’s also a guy who will take to that role without complaining.

          1. ToJo is a minor transaction waiting to happen. He’s been a good soldier. Send him somewhere he can get a shot. A PTBNL, possibly a comp pick next year if he produces early on for an AL club. That’s all we can reasonably hope to get in return, if that.

        1. Murray, Ryan Howard was cheap with power last year, no takers. He actually out-homered ToJo in his last year in fewer at bats. Power is abundant. I will be incredibly surprised if ToJo nets us ANY money. Baltimore has Chris Davis and mark Trumbo. They aren’t interested in Tommy Joseph…. Off to Korea with Ruf!

          1. Ryan Howard wouldn’t accept being a bench bat. TJ would totally embrace it. Totally different. I want a pinch hitter who can hit a homer once in a while and be a good guy in the clubhouse. That’s TJ. All I’m saying is there’s no reason to dump him.

            1. Speaking of a power bat , first basemen, MLBTR has the Braves now shopping Matt Adams and the writer Steve Adams goes into the analysis of the player with other s in similar positions of late and what to expect in salary.

            2. Wait? The same Ryan Howard that played Triple-A last year? Come on man, nothing you have said has been accurate.

          2. Yes, Ryan Howard really showed the world he still has “it” by posting a .208 OBP and .367 slugging percentage in AAA. This has to go down as the silliest and most inaccurate post ever made on this board – and that’s saying something.

            1. If you’re going to use quotes, actually make sure you are quoting something that was said, or else it just doesn’t make sense. My point was accurate. In Howard’s last year, he out-homered Tommy Joseph. I’m using Ryan Howard to illustrate how pathetic Joseph is. By association, Howard is also pathetic.

              This all boils down to the fact that Tommy Joseph has zero value. Actually, not true. He has value. Negative value.

    1. Do you have a source, don’t see any reports of the deal?

      I like the move since it opens up the position for Knapp/Alfaro and adds a decent lefty arm to the team. He fits the profile they look for, good control but not much “stuff”

        1. That’s a total violation. These sites should be sanctioned somehow for irresponsible publishing, no matter how speculative want to be.

      1. rocco…..well Rupp is now back with the Phillies…he failed the physical..overweight, and to add insult to injury, a Cowboys fan to boot. 🙂

    1. Good news on the one hand…if they both can turn their careers around in the bullpen next season, perhaps the can see time with the Phillies…then again they may want to sign with any other major league team as minor league free agents.

    2. Yeah bumping Derek Fisher from that trade was a great idea. Their talent evaluation skills are definitely, definitely on trial right now.

      1. I agree with you, BigPhan. Pineda on a two year deal (first season a rehab year) is a good gamble for a team with money to spend like the Phillies. The Rays did this with Nathan Eovaldi last winter.

  6. Both Appel and Tirado were outrighted for the 1st time with no MLB service time so the Phils still hold their rights until they are released.

    I think Tirado has 1-2 more years before he becomes a minor league FA while the Phils hold Appel’s rights until like 2019-2020.

    1. Ok…..just like ToJo in 2015.
      So if they can possibly turn it around, the Phillies then have their rights to bring them up.

  7. Both have a shot still, so I am glad we did not lose their rights for nothing. Another 2 weeks for the Winter Meetings will make this drag on. When can the Phils officially go after the ex-Braves International signings?

  8. For the first time in years, maybe decades, the Phillies are the furthest thing from my sports mind. The incessant and insufferable losing really got to me and I’m loving the Eagles and The Process. I hope to start thinking about this again at the Winter meetings (briefly) and then ST.

    1. Dodgers have both the money and prospects to get him…and that is where he wants to go.
      And correct….the dominoes will begin falling soon after that is done.
      Plus Arte Moreno will not let his cross-town rivals get all the glory….he will in turn, at that point. pull off a big trade and get Cesar from the Phillies to match the Dodger’s acquisition of Stanton!

  9. Oops, I changed my mind. I’ve been saying that the Phillies need to acquire two pitchers this winter, and now I think that one will do. I just spent a couple of hours going through all of the pitchers the Phillies have at all levels, and it seems to me that Lehigh and Reading will probably have six man rotations next year. The Phillies will have Nola, and a new pitcher (free agent or trade) at the top of the rotation. The Phils intend to at least start the season with Velasquez in the rotation, so he and Eickhoff are number 3 and 4. Way back in April, Eflin was the first pitcher called up from AAA, followed by Pivetta and Lively. One of those three should step up and be the 5th starter.

    1. Actually your correct on needing 2 pitchers. I expect one pitcher acquired via trade with the cost being a pitching prospect, possibly an outfielder, and one of our AAA/ML starters (Lively, Pivetta, Thompson, Eickhoff, Eflin, etc…) this would help fill the void of the trade. Also expect a Free Agent signing as a possibility – maybe Chatwood.

  10. Prediction: In 365 days from now, The Phillies will sign Manny Machado. To go even further, the contract Machado agrees to will make him 410 million dollars over 11 years (40 million per year for the first five years, 35 million per year for the last six years, and an “opt out” clause after five years).
    BTW … MacKlentak and Middleton won’t stop there. Before Christmas 2018, the Phillies will also reel in two of Marwin Gonzalez, Garrett Richards, Patrick Corbin, Zach Britton, and Jake Diekman.

  11. Orioles fans/writers/bloggers would love to see Mark Trumbo disappear. I’ve been selling my solution to the Tommy Joseph situation for months now: ToJo and Tyler Viza to Baltimore for Trumbo (2 yrs @ 26 million), Gray Fenter, and the O’s comp A pick. The main pieces (Joseph, Trumbo, and Fenter) would go this week. Tyler Viza and the comp pick would be switched in April for book keeping purposes (comp picks can only be traded in season). Before anyone says, “Why would the Orioles want Tyler Viza?” … they probably don’t. Viza is just a guy needed to make the deal possible now. The Phillies have to send Baltimore something in April to get back the comp pick.

    1. A). Replace Drew Anderson with Viza and they will probably bite since Anderson can start in 2018 in the majors at some point for them.
      B). Plus….get also some int’l money, along with the CBA, since the int’l money seems to burn holes in their pocket.

      1. Romus … in that case, you don’t even need to swap ToJo for Trumbo (and his 26 million). I believe the Orioles would swap their comp A pick for Drew Anderson, straight up. I’ve been looking for a way to get something for Tommy Joseph. That’s not easy. The only avenue for that (IMO) is including ToJo in a Trumbo salary dump. As I’ve pointed out many times, ToJo and Trumbo were basically the same player in 2017. The main differences between the two are their ages and salaries.
        As far as acquiring a comp A pick for a player, I’ve only found one instance where it’s happened in a one-for-one situation. In 2014, Miami traded their comp A pick (1-39) to Pittsburgh for this guy Bryan Morris was a former first round pick, but that was eight years prior to the trade. By the time of this deal, Morris was a pretty average 27 YO RH reliever (although, he was throwing 96 MPH back then). I gotta’ believe Drew Anderson is worth at least what Bryan Morris was worth at the time of that 2014 trade.

        1. Hinkie…makes sense.
          And on ToJo, his final destination may very well have to be in the AL and that only lessens the market for him.
          The Indians cannot afford to lose both Santana and Bruce from the middle of their lineup, which would leave Encarnacion exposed…..if they do, then ToJo may look good to them.

  12. Interesting.

    Just visiting Baseball Reference to refresh myself on Mark Trumbo and Derek Fisher and decided to look up the Phillies as a team. They list the top 24 all-time Phillies based on WAR.

    No surprise, Mike Schmidt is first at 106 and way ahead of Robin Roberts at 71. What was surprising is Chase Utley Number Four. I would not have expected him to be that high, just behind Steve Carlton and ahead of Grover Cleveland Alexander.

    Also a surprise, some guy name Roy Thomas at 13. Never heard of him. He was a centerfielder from Norristown who played from 1899 to 1911.

    Bobby Abreu Number Nine also a bit of a surprise. Puts him one place ahead of Jimmy Rollins.

      1. I wonder where luzinski is on that list. I was thinking same thing romus, Pitcher Roy Thomas. he stunk

  13. I would love to see more international $$$ – there are 3 really good prospects of the Braves that were disgorged in the cheating scandal : Yefri Del Rosario a rhp who throws in the mid 90’s and has a good curve – likely, to be in some eyes, the most attractive player of the group; Guillermo Zuniga, rhp who throws 88-93 with strong curve and at 6’3″ projectible; and Yenci Pena, 3B who shows power and enough fielding prowess to be more than adequate in the dirt. Eric Longenhagen does a nice writeup of the dozen+ candidates on Fangraphs – dated 11/22. I believe the 3 mentioned above all signed for 1mm + with the Braves.

    1. RU … the Phillies are in good shape to land at least one former Brave prospect. They have 900 thousand dollars left for the 2017 J2 season, and they can still trade for at least another 1.5 million (that’s my best guess or an approximation). They can also use their 2018 J2 budget instead of their 2017 J2 money. I know they’re spending some of that 2018 money on RHP Starlyn Castillo (and probably a few other LA teens), but there will still be plenty of money to use on former Atlanta prospects.
      Aside from Maitan, Yenci Pena and pitchers Jaun Contreras and Yefri Del Rosario should be attractive to the Phillies. The young Korean SS Ji Hwan Bae could also be interesting.

      1. Hinkie, don’t forget, mlb also gave all teams an extra $200k of cap space since this incident happened. So Phillies are actually at $1.1M left to spend.

        And from how I understand it, I could be wrong, but they can use that money for one guy, and use next year’s money for another. They just can’t combine the two. Like Maitan can’t be signed for $1.2M ($1.1M from this year plus $100k from next year’s).

    2. There is the possibility Zuniga mayl lean Phillies, since he and Alfaro have that Colombian connection.

    3. While I understand the FO personnel in this scandal needed to be punished severely and if they (the players) were in some way cheated they should be made whole what I don’t understand from a 30,000 foot view is MLB’s decision to stick it to the most innocent of all… the Braves fans.

      No love lost for the Braves from me but I do always feel for the little guy and in this case it would be the fan who again is going to suffer.

      How does the MLB let it get to this point IDK? You mean to tell us they didn’t have an inkling something wasn’t right.

      I’m getting more cynical perhaps as I age about pro sports and maybe even society in general. Greed and win at all costs attitudes are a blight we could all live without.

      1. You mean all those Atlanta fans who show up at games masquerading as empty seats?
        And the ones that don’t can bury there annoying tomahawk chops. Everybody suffers when the people at the top can’t do their job the right way and don’t get away with it.

      2. Not sure how you punish the organization without it affecting the fan base. You can penalize the organizational brass all you want but you also must undo the effects of what they gained and making the punishment painful enough that they don’t try it again and other teams don’t want to go there either..

  14. I know he’s stated his fondness for Scott Kingery before, but Eric Longenhagen didn’t hold back any praise for the future Phillie 2Bman during today’s chat:

    Is Scott Kingery ready? What are your thoughts on him?
    Eric A Longenhagen
    I’ve had the pleasure of watching him since college. Had a first round grade on him at U of A. Think he has a chance to be a 70 hitter who plays gold glove defense at 2B. And I think some of this year’s power spike is for real. He made subtle mechanical changes.

    1. I have said this before and believe it even more now – Kingery might end up being the best player on the Phillies in a few years, but even if he is not, he will end up being the most important player in this rebuild and the heart and soul of this team. And Gabe Kapler will absolutely love this kid and let him be the leader that he is. Scott Kingery will exceed the already high expectations. He will be a star and the fans will love him. I believe in him as much as I’ve ever believed in a young player. I think he’s that special.

        1. Hahaha. Very true.

          Of all the players that our group followed and who didn’t make it, Asche surprises me the most. While he was a limited defensive player, he rocketed through the minors, had an outstanding half season plus at AAA as a 23 year old, had a great work ethic and a beautiful swing. It really should have come together, but it just didn’t.

          That said, Scotty has a better hit tool, and is a much better runner, fielder and athlete than Asche so I hope I won’t be jinxing him. There’s a lot to like with Kingery.

      1. Bang! You hit the nail on the head. For my money Kingery is the most untouchable player in the system. I love Cesar and admire the fact that he turned himself into a very good player, but he can’t carry Kingery’s jock.

  15. IMO, the biggest wins for Phillies this offseason would be A) to get Kevin Maitan and Juan Contreras; and B) to trade CeHe for one strong player/prospect in return (ideally SP; though I still love idea of Joc P – which would necessitate trading Nick Williams, whom I believe will struggle in ’18).

    1. Nick Williams is better than Peterson straight up. Why will he suffer this year? That’s pessimistic thinking. I think he’ll get better as he works on improving. His power is legit.

      1. There are two thoughts for me on Nick Williams. Either he will regress, or maybe this year he clicked and this is what he can be going forward. 20-25 homers, 90+ RBI, .260-.270. I’m really not sure which to believe. But yes, I wouldn’t want Joc either.

  16. Forever it was written that Phillies system was deep but without Top 25 -type studs. Early in season I wrote that I believe we actually have TWO in Hoskins and Kingery. I think BA/BP/MLB would now agree that they under-rated Rhys. And Kingery is already growing on them. By 2019, all of baseball will recognize two studs on the right-side of our IF!

    1. As far as position players are concerned, Jhailyn Ortiz could be there in another year or two….and Adam Haseley certainly has the aptitude to also be at least a BA top-50 prospect at some point.
      Personally, by mid-season I can see Darick Hall generating plenty of prospect talk.

      1. Romus from the little I have seen of Ortiz. I think he has a chance to be a monster. Big body kid who can move. love his upside

        1. Agreed, Haseley and Ortiz’ potential is exciting!

          Hey, might Phillies fan’s comfort level already with a silent-H (Jhailyn) help our positioning for Ohtani?! 🙂

          1. Think Ortiz has makings of the next Miggy.

            Whether we get Ohtani or not, I just want to hear what lengths the Phillies went to pursue this guy. Is it that difficult for the local or national media to get a pulse on their interest. Has any beat reporter simply asked the question? If so, let me know so I can find it.

    2. John,

      I’ve been a Rhys fan for a long time, as a look back at my prospect lists illustrate. I’m equally high on Kingery and agree with Catch22 that he should be one of the best Phillies.

      An infield of Hoskins, Kingery, Crawford and, hopefully, Machado, would be fun, for sure.

      I also like our young outfielders, including prospects Ortiz and Haseley. And we’ve got some catching prospects in the system.

      In other words, from a position player perspective, the future looks bright just from our own pharm, though I would not object to going after a huge bat like Stanton. Lots of pitching prospects, too, but we might need or free agent or two.

      In short, can’t wait for 2018 to start and watch the progress.

    1. Don’t worry, Wayne – we got Engelb Humperdink Vielma. He can also sing the national anthem. Versatility is what the Phils value most.

  17. lol 8mark. That was funny! Doug Fister signs! That should open the floodgates! I still find it strange that there is no official Pitching Coach and the Bench Coach job is unfilled.

    1. Wondering who actually is doing the hiring?
      The interview process probably involves Kapler and then Klentak I assume.
      Neither have extensive hiring experience I imagine for staff, though Klentak has quite a bit more exposure with it under MacPhail in Baltimore and Dipoto with the Angels..

    1. Wayne,

      I met Venditte in spring training last year and immediately liked the guy and rooted for him all season. Not sure he has the stuff for a Big League career but he’s certainly fun to watch, and in an era of situational relief pitching, he might save an arm or two on some days.

      1. I watched him pitch for Creighton when I lived in Omaha after I retired from the USAF. While was there I also got to see Ruf and Alex Gordon who played for the Huskers.

  18. Gentleman, our 12 days of Christmas run from Dec 11 thru Dec 22. Can’t wait. Really, the silence is anything but golden.

  19. We need some AAA and AAAA players signed to have 10 or 12 players for the Spring Training Non Roster list and to fill out the LHV Roster.

    1. May 1-3 veterans in a two way contract but not 10-12. The Phils have a lot of close to MLB/AAAA players i want to see in Spring Team, this includes:

      A) If they are not selected in Rule 5:

      1) Austin Davis
      2) Carlos Tocci
      3) Brandon Leibrandt
      4) Andrew Pullin
      5) Malquin Canelo

      B) Prospect(s) that can make the 40-man next year

      6) Scott Kingery
      7) Tom Eshelman
      8) Mark Appel
      9) Jacob Wags

      C) AAAA journeyman who can still show something:

      10) Colton Murray
      11) Brock Stassi
      12) Mitch Walding
      13) Pedro Florimon
      14) Jiandido Tromp
      15) Logan Moore

        1. @romus – my expectation with Appel is low. But maybe the demotion might click something in him that’s why I want to see him compete for a spot this coming ST. Appel’s FB-SL still has the making of a plus pitch that can work well out of the pen.

      1. Kurdt,

        Some of the journeymen might be elsewhere next year.

        I’m not sure Tromp is an AAAA journeyman. He has worked his way up after a slow start and might surprise. He’s got some power. He’s 24 years old so, if he doesn’t continue moving up, he’s on the cusp of being a journeyman AAAA,but, as you say, he can still show something.

    2. As far as LHV roster is concerned, I think the Iron Pigs can create a strong roster that can provide help to the MLB team and will not block any upcoming prospects – this is still possible even if Klentak trade 3-4 players who are already in the 40-man.

      If Rupp is traded or non-tendered, then the Phils might need to sign a veteran catcher. But for the other positions including the pitching side, the farm have it covered.

      I can see LHV roster consist of the following:

      C – Moore + one of Knapp/Rupp(DFA) or veteran FA
      INF – Martin, Kingery, Walding, Canelo with Valentin/Alvarez/Vielma/Florimon as back up
      OF – Cozens, Quinn, Tocci, Pullin, Tromp

      SP – Eshelman plus a combination of Eflin, Lively, Thompson, Taveras, Anderson. Irvin, El Garcia, Leibrandt

      RP – Appel, Murray, Rivero, Davis, deNato and whoever will not make the 25-man like Pinto, Rios, Curtis and some SPs that will be converted to RP

      1. Phils always take 4 catchers with MLB experience to Spring Training, so I see them
        signing a catcher with MLB experience and one with AAA, 2 outfielders with MLB
        experience and 2 starting pitchers and 2 relief pitchers with MLB experience. So I see a total of at least 8.

        1. Phils usually take about 12 players to Spring Training that are free agents, usually 1 makes MLB Roster and 2 go to AAA and the rest are released. Just taking flyers.

      1. Stanton will get the picture…..two weeks from now he may be heading elsewhere.
        Do not understand why the Dodgers are not jumping all over this….he wants to go there, they have the money and/or prospects to oblige Jeter.
        I think Puig may be the underlying issue…….with Stanton in LA, Puig becomes redundant in RF….and Don Mattingly and Jeter are tight and Mattingly probably wants nothing to do with Puig again.

        1. It seems like the Dodgers just don’t want to take on that contract. They were already a 104 win team last year, so it’s not like they need him short-term in the same way the Cards or Giants do. Friedman doesn’t seem like the type to take on enormous long-term risk if the short-term payoff isn’t worth it.

          1. Stanton’s contract is bad. It’s long-term, expensive, and all of the leverage is with the player. I’m guessing most teams don’t want it…

            Reminds me on the contract A-Rod had with the Rangers/Yankees where he eventually opted out and then resigned another terrible long-term contract. It took the Yankees 4+ years and 100+ million to finish eating the crap left on that deal..

            1. My understanding the part of the contract that is most troubling and concern for the other parties/teams, is his ‘opt-out clause’…..Stanton may opt out of the contract after the 2020 season….or three years.
              I find that actually less troubling then the length and total financial expenditure.
              However, I can understand, if he flops in two years….he will not opt-out but remain for the duration.

            2. If I’m a GM interested in Stanton, I offer to fully take his first three years of salary (until the potential opt out) in case he opts out. If he doesn’t, Miami agrees to soak up the following two, maybe three years, or up to half of the rest. One thing I’m NOT budging from is – giving up my top four or five prospects.

            3. Yea, that’s the player leverage problem. If he’s plays well, he gets a do over and if he doesn’t he gets $30 million a year for the next decade.

              The situation sets up just like A-Rod did in his contract when he chose to opt out of his original deal which then convinced the Yankees to offer another 10-year deal which they started to regret in about 5 years. I basically turned his original deal into about a 15 year guaranteed contract.

          2. IMO, Friedman hesitancy with Stanton may stem from the fact that he may be financially positioning himself for next year and resigning Clayton Kershaw….which I can only assume, will be the largest pitcher’s contract in MLB history.
            And having both Stanton and Kershaw may be too much for them to absorb and put them over the luxury tax for too many years. Though I think they have already busted it one time in the past.

            1. That’s very true. I forget where I read it, but I believe the Dodgers are trying to stay under the tax line this year, knowing that Kershaw will need to be re-singed and there are other attractive free agents next year.

            2. I don’t think the Dodgers are very concerned with the luxury tax. They’re going to be well over with or without Stanton. They’ll eventually get below the threshold because they are so loaded with young stars and highly rated prospects.
              On the other hand, the Yankees are making getting below the luxury tax threshold a priority this winter.

            3. I did read somewhere that the writer got the impression that Freidman and the Dodgers wamt to stay under the luxury tax.

    1. Think that was always the point with Stanton. By all accounts the Marlins are going to drastically slash payroll and they can do that either my moving Stanton or by moving everyone else they have of value.

      Not sure he needed to be told that since he/his agent should have been smart enough to realize what the options are but apparently Jeter wanted to make sure…

  20. Jeff Passan (Yahoo Sports) has a thoughtful take on why things are slow on the market, and it has little to do with Stanton or Ohtani. He suggests that with all the young FO analytics types now in power, the open market isn’t valued over teams’ own talent. Therefore, the movement to acquire new pieces, especially the expensive “overpay for past performance” players available, is becoming less of an option.

    Speaking of Ohtani – Hinkie, do you think the holdup on naming a bench coach might be that they’re waiting to see if they can persuade his soon-to-be former manager (can’t recall the name) in Japan to join the fold. (Totally half serious spit balling on my part.)

    1. Not a crazy line of thinking (both points). why pay big for maybe one or two good seasons for some of these free agents.

      And recruiting a coach to get the player recruit is smart…

    2. 8mark … Brian Cashman is the holdup to the Phillies naming a bench coach. The Phillies want to hire Yankees’ bench coach Rob Thomson, but he is also one of about a half dozen candidates to be the next Yankee manager.
      Also, the plan to hire Hideki Kuriyama (Nippon Ham Fighters manager) as bench coach or senior adviser fell through when he inked an extension to remain the manager of the Fighters last month.

  21. I don’t get that the Marlins have leverage here. Stanton can opt out after 3 years. I know he does not want to play for a rebuilding team, but he doesn’t want to play somewhere he doesn’t like either. So Marlins keep him, gut the team to spite him, how do the fans react? They turn on the new ownership. How is that smart in a new brand in Florida? Isn’t it better to take the hit on less prospects, or some good prospects, but throw in some $ and move him somewhere he likes, and rebuild the team that way? Threatening Stanton seems dumb to me.

  22. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that for the better part of Stanton’s career – or at least from 2011 through 2017 he has only played in 78% of his team’s games due to various injuries. This year he played in 159 games which was the most he had played in since 2011 when he played in 150 games. Between these two bookends – he only played 145 games once in 2014 and within that 5 year period 2012-2016 he played in 71% of his team’s games. My opinion is that he happened to enjoy a particularly unique – for him – 2017 when he wasn’t injured for one reason or another. The sheer odds of him avoiding some injury in 2018 to play 150 games is almost insurmountable – meaning, a very slim chance. So – do you want to offer a long range contract – even if he can opt out after 2020, to a player with a history of repeated injury who is most likely to participate in , maybe 75% of your games ? Absurd.

    1. Predicting a players future injury conditions and time loss can be a difficult tasking.
      Predictions for players with prior shoulder injuries/surgeries, or lower back or even thoracic outlets can be fairly more accurate.
      And even players with multiple soft tissue injuries… Roman Quinn, may be an easier undertaking.
      Stanton’s injury past is checkered with anassortment:
      2011 12 (11) R hamstring strain, R quadriceps strain
      2012 46 (36) R knee loose bodies, abdominal strain
      2013 50 (44) R hamstring strain, L shoulder soreness
      2014 17 (17) HBP facial fracture
      2015 L hand fracture
      It has been over four years since the last soft tissue issues…the hamstrings, ab and quad strains.
      So there may be some precautionary steps he has taken to reduce those risks.
      The fractures….well not much you can do when the ball plunks you or you slide or dive and break a bone.
      I think there will be some GM that will still take a chance with him.

    1. My odds on Ohtani:
      Mariners 4-1
      Yankees 4-1
      Dodgers 4-1
      Astros 6-1
      Cubs 6-1
      Rangers 6-1
      Giants 8-1
      Mets 10-1
      Padres 10-1
      Red Sox 15-1
      Twins 15-1
      Everybody else 20-1

        1. Hinkie/8mark…..I sure hope they are at least in the game for him. You never know.
          And signing Darvish at $22/23M AAV for 4/5 yrs would be a difference maker IMO.

      1. Hinkie, in your extensive plan, you left out the Shofuso Japanese House & Garden in Fairmount Park. Can you imagine Ohtani sitting on the floor for tea with Morimoto, Kap and Charlie? Would I love to be a fly on the wall listening in to that conversation. Not sure who would scare the kid more, the Hebrew Hammer or the Red Devil.

  23. From MLBTR:
    “The Braves announced today that they’ve traded right-hander Jim Johnson to the Angels in exchange for minor league lefty Justin Kelly. The Angels also pick up a yet-undetermined amount of international bonus money in the deal.”

    ……apparently the Braves, with their penalties incurred by MLB, have started to trade away int’ money for players.
    I did not know they had the money to do that.

    1. Under the penalty I didn’t think that they lost their pool money but rather were prevented from using it in 2018 and then were limited by contract size in 2019-2020.. Kind of like teams that went over the spending limits being limited on the size of the contract.

      I read a good article on a Braves site that spelled out the penalties and players lost pretty well. They were trying to calculated the total monetary damage..

    1. I would have a 22-year old Darick Hall rated equal to, and possibly in two years, better than the 24-year old Chris Shaw.

    2. If that’s what it takes to get Stanton and the Phillies don’t, then they didn’t want him. We can also take on some dumpage. For two young OFers and any two young pitchers not named Sanchez, I’d also throw in Franco if they give us Rogers and either a comp bal pick or int’l bonus $$$.

  24. Why haven’t the Phils added to their pool money with a trade just like the Angels just did? That was 1.21 Million that the Braves gave to the Angels. Klentak has done none of that. And, that would be a good trade for the Giants except for the $250 Million that I do not think they agree to take.

    1. matt13…….Klentak has not proved to me to be very creative so far.
      Now to the average Phillies fan he may be doing a very goodt job with Hoskins, Alfaro, Williams and the brief appearance of JPC, coming on board in a big way this past season, but when it comes to long term strategic talent acquisition at the beginning of the pipeline he is preity much average to me…nrither earth shattering or below average.

      1. I have not been impressed. I haven’t liked the veteran guys he’s gotten over the last two years. We got lucky with Howie and Neshek. We screwed up by not trading Hellickson in 2016. The Giles trade looks like a draw thus far. The Nicasio steal and trade was savvy, but we didn’t get much in return.

        So for me, his best move, was NOt trading Cesar after the 2016 season. Cesar has proven to be quite valuable. Even if another deal doesn’t materialize this offseason, we still have a very solid piece, even if it creates a few months worth of blockage with Kingery. Maikel might be the odd man out.

        1. You’re setting a double standard. You can’t claim that two of his good acquisitions are just good luck and his other couple are true indicators of his ability to evaluate talent.

          In addition we HAD a trade for Hellickson in 2016. Then Miami screwed the pooch. Did you want him to use the remaining couple of hours left on the deadline to swing another trade? After the other trade partners almost assuredly moved on?

          Howie and Neshek were great moves. Hellickson was a savvy pick up. Morton was a tough call to let go, but no one could have predicted THAT performance. Buccholz was a bad pick up; not worth money he’s owed let alone a warm body in the minors.

          The front office hasn’t exactly inspired confidence in me thus far, but we’re closer to contention than any of us anticipated we would be at this time when they were brought on board. Some of that is good luck, some of that is them doing their job.

          1. Have to agree with what you said in your first three paragraphs…….however, “but we’re closer to contention than any of us anticipated we would be at this time when they were brought on board”……..I am repeating this like a broken record…but have to remember, all the current young position players ,and hopefully premier personnel someday, were the previous regimes’ acqusitions.

            1. The most important thing Klentak has done is to be patient. While he doesn’t score many points for not trading his prospects for veterans to win sooner, it’s a very important thing to take into account. Let’s see what he does next offseason.
              That said, I would like to see him show some creativity in acquiring J2 money and comp draft picks.

            2. Klentak has to show me something by the end of the winter meetings or I’m officially down on him. He doesn’t have to make a big splash but he does have to show some creativity. He’s got way too much to work with not to. No excuses. Patience is no longer the catch word here. His job is to improve the personnel from last season. Holding patterns are not an option. He can be aggressive without being foolish.

            3. Personally….if he can go out and get 2 or 3 of the Braves LA kids declarded FA, especially Maitan as the front-runner, then I may have a change of heart.
              For me…it is all about keeping the pipeline flowing from the beginning, which in turn keesp the farm rated high.

          2. I don’t find it to be a double standard at all. Neshek came to us with a 2.75 career ERA with 447 ks in 445 innings, and a 1.021 WHIP. Howie Kendrick was a career .291 hitter with 30-WAR. It wasn’t lucky they were good for us.

            Hellickson, in his previous 3 years before he became a philly had a 4.86 ERA, with an ERA+ of 81. Not getting a deal done when he was having a good year falls on the GM. I’m sorry. The goal was to get him and, if he was having a good year, flip him. He failed.

            Buccholz? A guy whose career has been wildly inconsistent and never made 30 starts in a season ended up breaking. Again, I don’t find that to be unlucky.

            You even touched upon it a little bit in your reasoning. You acquire good pieces, they did their jobs and he looked good for it. He acquired two mediocre/less than average pieces, and that’s what he got in the end.

            And Baltimore has proven they don’t give one crap about international money. They are ridiculous. So I guess Hellickson for international money is a win.

            Ahhh we forgot about Michael Saunders… That was unlucky.

  25. The Hoskins, JPC, Alfaro and Williams acquisitions were from the previous regime. I will not knock him for the Giles trade, I think Eshelman is a sleeper, VV still has upside and I was happy with Appel at the time. But, it is those things that I equate with the bright young GMs, acquiring additional International monies, taking on $ from a contract dump and getting a good prospect, plucking a young talent from another organization, where Klentak has failed to impress me. I have seen none of that. Come next year, anyone can offer Machado $400 Million. It is the accumulation of small assets leading up to that that makes a successful GM. Where have those been?

    1. I’m not knocking the Giles trade either! At the time I was very excited. But at this point with the benefit of hindsight, it is right now a push. Oberholzer was junk. Appel is appearing to be junk. Velasquez can’t stay healthy or be dominant. I’m sure he’ll be on an innings-limit again this year and next. Harold Aruaz is far away. Ken Giles himself hasn’t been great. Jonathan Aruaz is too far away.

      So this trade may boil down to Tom Eshelman for Giles. And right now, if that’s the future, I like the looks of it. But as of today, it’s a push for me.

  26. Actually, Klentak did acquire a good bit of extra international money in several trades this past season. Some of that came from Baltimore for Hellickson. This enabled the Phillies to sign four top-50 international players so far with 2017 money.

    1. Luis Garcia, ss, Dominican Republic (No. 12 prospect), $2.5 million
      Carlos Vargas, rhp, Colombia (No. 25 prospect), $525,000
      Carlos Betancourt, rhp, Venezuela (No. 41 prospect)
      Cesar Rodriguez, c, Venezuela (No. 42 prospect)
      Israel Puello, rhp, Dominican Republic, $460,0000.
      Oscar Gonzalez, c, Venezuela
      Cristian Hernandez, rhp, Venezuela
      Alberto Torres, lhp, Colombia
      Alejandro Made, rhp, Dominican Republic
      Diego Tamariz, rhp, Venezuela

  27. Good point Hari, there was some money gotten there. But, too little of that for me. Has Klentak impressed you so far? I applaud patience, and have had no interest in trading prospects for a mediocre ML player to win 5 extra games, no question about that. But, you can be patient and acquire assets that help you down the line when you don’t have to be patient anymore, and can compete for talent with every club out there. That is my area of concern.

    1. Hey matt – I know you were asking Hari, but figured I’d opine. During Klentak’s first season +, I thought many of his moves were shrewd, and of those that did not work out, many were due happenstance, or an expected result of a swing and miss strategy of acquiring players on 1 year deals. But I’m admittedly growing somewhat tired with the lack of moves to acquire major league talent. This notion of comparing the Phillies current effort with the rebuilds of other franchises and claiming our current timeline places us on track for success is downright silly. I’m expecting a big winter – not Darvish, Arrieta necessarily, but certainly multiple multi-year above-average players via free agency or trade acquisition.

      It’s December 1st, and the Phillies have one player signed to a contract, and commitments of only $6.35M which includes Odubel and buyouts for Harrison and Saunders.

      They have five arbitration eligible players in Rupp, Galvis, CHernandez, Franco, and Luis Garcia, all of which will surely be tendered. So let’s place another $20M here to cover arbitration cases. Without acquisitions or veteran type players, the balance of the 25-man roster (19 players) will be filled with pre-arbitration players – so let’s put another $14M there to cover minimum salaries for the 19 pre-arb players.

      That’s $40M total. That’s silly. Many of the pre-arb players will receive substantial playing time, and deservingly so. There’s no reason at this point not to begin acquiring longer term assets.

      1. I agree Steve if it were me I’d be looking to spend on pitching in the neighborhood of Cobb, Lynn and or Chatwood

        I have to think 2 of those guys could be had with 4 year $80 Million dollar deals

        Then you know you have to move Freddy and you have to move Cesar

        You need Left Handed protection for Rhys

        You need some corner OF insurance as Altherr and Williams will need to prove they can be everyday players for Altherr its probably more about staying healthy.

        Bottom line is there would be no harm to the rebuild or next years FA class by smartly taking the payroll up to near $100 mil

    2. Sorry, matt. I was done for the night after my comment. Didn’t see your response until now. Anyway, Klentak has not disappointed me, though he hasn’t done anything super-impressive yet. Seems to me a lot of folks are saying his good moves were just luck and the bad was due to incompetence. IMO he gained a lot of extra 2017 international money. Four top-50 prospects and still has 900K to spend. Remember also, that all that international money was added and spent long before the Ohtani posting came about. Then there was the Simon Muzziotti signing. Seems to me that all fits the bill of acquiring assets that help you down the line. Also, unlike RAJ, he did bring prospects up from AAA and they actually got playing time – Hoskins, Crawford, Williams, Alfaro. These were all good moves IMO.

      I think the team is moving in the right direction. What do I want to see Klentak get us in the offseason? 1. Two starters. A multi-year TOR deal and a vet to possibly be flipped at the trade deadline. 2. One veteran MLB reliever and a couple for AAA. 3. A couple of veteran bench guys, an OF and an IF. The IF bench guy may already have been signed in Pedro Florimon. Who should be traded? 1. Galvis – FA after this season, so do it now. 2. Hernandez. Kingery is the 2B of the future. 3. ToJo and Rupp – included-in-the-deal type of players. 4. Any number of pitchers. We have MOR guys to spare. I’m looking at basically any pitcher from the MLB and AAA rotations not named Nola as tradeable. Eickhoff, Velasquez, Anderson and Kilome are probably the most attractive trade pieces.

      When will it happen? Patience 🙂 Not much is happening anywhere yet. Teams with international money are holding onto it for the Ohtani sweepstakes. Others are waiting to see where Stanton lands. And the current crop of FAs, well it seems most all teams are no longer willing to pay for past performance. There have only been a few trades and minor league signings thus far all across MLB.

  28. Giants will reportedly be meeting with Stanton’s reps. Seems like that possibility is gaining steam.

  29. SABR Defensive Index (SDI) for 2017:
    Six Phillies were rated:
    Herrera – CF- (pos.5.4)….5th in the NL and 9th overall in MLB
    Galvis – ss- (pos 1.1)……7th in the NL and 14th overall in MLB
    Hernandez- 2nd- (neg 4.1))…12th in the NL and 24 overall in MLB
    Franco – 3rd (neg 6.7)…..12th in the NL and 25th overall in MLB
    Rupp – C –(neg 3.8)….13th in the NL and 28th overall in MLB
    Joseph- 1st –(neg 10.8)….last overall in MLB

  30. All of you make great points about what we need, and the ability, financially, to add Major League talent. I am not saying the payroll should be $175 Million, but they have to be somewhere about $80 or so. That leaves a lot to spend while maintaining plenty of room for next year. Romus on those numbers, Galvis is 7th in the NL and !4th in the Majors? I am not a numbers guy, but that is flat out wrong. Thee are not 5 better defensive SSs that are possibly better than Galvis in the Majors. Can you explain why the numbers show that?

    1. matt…..better I just qoute you SABR’s grading system:
      “The SABR Defensive Index draws on and aggregates two types of existing defensive metrics: those derived from batted ball location-based data and those collected from play-by-play accounts. The three metrics representing batted ball data include Defensive Runs Saved from Baseball Info Solutions, Ultimate Zone Rating developed by noted sabermetrician Mitchel Lichtman, and Runs Effectively Defended based on STATS Zone Rating and built by SABR Defensive Committee member Chris Dial. The two metrics included in the SDI originating from play-by-play data are Defensive Regression Analysis, created by committee member Michael Humphreys, and Total Zone Rating.
      The SABR Defensive Index accounts for approximately 25 percent of the Rawlings Gold Glove Award selection process that was added to the votes from the managers and coaches.”

  31. Otani Update….some reports are saying that Otani may prefer to sigh with an MLB team that doesn’t already have another Japanese star on its roster. Some team executives believes that Otani may want to stand alone and doesn’t want to be compared to other Japanese stars.

    Klentak’s additional 1st — you will be the 1st Japanese star in the Tri-State area and 1st Japanese athlete to have a statue and a karaoke restaurant to be named after him!!!

  32. Hari, I really can’t disagree with what you just said. I want the team to do just what you said, 2 SPs, a reliever and some depth. Move some of the extraneous pieces and be right in who they move.

    1. Matt, I don’t disagree with anything you said either. Just advising a little patience with Klentak. It’s only been one year and although he’s done nothing big, what he has done is either positive or neutral. No real negatives. This off-season is the make or break period of the rebuild. Acquire at least one piece that will be around multiple years, win more games and see who develops in 2018. Lots of choice FAs next year.

      1. Hari S….Matty K. was hire October 2015…two year anniversary just passed.
        in Philadelphia GMs are measured in dog years.
        He is now in year 14.

  33. From interview with Morosi What do you like about daily life in the United States?

    Ohtani: I’ve only been to Hawaii and Arizona, but I like the huge steaks. What cities are you curious about and would like to see?

    Ohtani: The Rocky Balboa statue, I want a picture of that. Philadelphia has a baseball team, you know.

    1. Poo.. the last line got cut off What do you like about daily life in the United States?

      Ohtani: I’ve only been to Hawaii and Arizona, but I like the huge steaks. What cities are you curious about and would like to see?

      Ohtani: The Rocky Balboa statue, I want a picture of that. Philadelphia has a baseball team, you know.

      Ohtani: No, I just want to visit there.

      1. Wow … I thought that was a joke … typical negadelphia ….

        Well … in this case … I hope he stinks, worse than the others that have flammed out from the hype. I hope it’s before his big payday too!

        Just to stick it to him…. when word gets out that he is in town, they should move the statue and replace it with some cranky Phillies phans holding cartons of eggs.

        Honestly don’t think he’ll be anywhere near the hype. There is a reason no one has really done this for a long time … or that D Ruf can play everyday in japan …

        1. I am sure he will now hear the boobirds once he visits Philly…and as they play the Rocky theme. They do not boo in Japan.

        2. I hope he turns out to be a great player. If he can hit and pitch, and do both effectively, that will generate a ton of interest in the casual fan, and maybe even the non-fan.

          This is the type of story that is just good for the game. I wish him well..

      2. I think you guys might be overreacting to his answer. Plus he hasn’t even stepped foot here yet. Hasn’t gotten a feel for anything Philadelphia/South Jersey/shore. Let it play out. Odds are long perhaps, but let’s not write this off like Negadelphians just yet. However, it is huge (if true) that he doesn’t want to go to a place with an already established Japanese presence. In that case, why not Philly?

        1. 8mark… are correct.
          Just early this week Ohtani’s agent asked for all 30 teams to submit their welcoming portfolios for their respective teams and cities…i am sure they still have not received everyone of them yet and reviewed them also. So we will have to wait for another three weeks before the final decision is made.

            1. Law also hears from scouts with concerns about lack of movement on Ohtani’s 100 mph fast ball, 2-strike approach, his ability to hit in the majors, and durability, especially endurance through a long season of playing two ways.

            2. 8mark…..most all the scouts agree his overall hit tool is pretty average and may not play high in the major leagues.
              But his power tool is 70/75 range, so that is a real plus.
              He could have a year at the plate like a Joey Gallo/Kyle Schwarber (2017)
              And especially if he isn’t swinging everyday.
              In Japan, from what I read, he always took off the day after he pitched and sometimes the second day after he pitched also.
              So he may have to be in the cage more if he wants to keep up his hitting abilities.
              Then that time spent in the hitting cage, could hamper his pitching development.

  34. When can teams sign the Braves castoff prospects? I thought I read somewhere that they could’ve signed this past Tuesday… I’m guessing they meant next Tuesday. Can those in the know confirm?

    Ok back into hybrination…

      1. Thank you. lol I’ve been excited since this past Tuesday, wondering what’s going on lol . Gotta love misinformation

  35. Guys,

    I’ve been reading with great interest the discussions about Stanton and other highly desirables like Ohtani, Machado, Trout. Lots of good points made by all.

    I, for one, would like to pursue Stanton. He’d be a terror at CBP. And if he opted out in 2020 that’s the time for Mike Trout to come calling, anyway. I’d also like to see the Phillies pursue Machado. Imagine Machado, Stanton, Hoskins back to back with Kingery and JP getting on base ahead of them.

    The issue has been raised about Stanton missing time because of injuries. No problem. Just have him alternate DL stints with Roman Quinn (LOL)

  36. Chris Young named Ast. Pitching Coach and I have been confused about our new Bench Coaches name and I looked him up and I found that his last name is Thomson and not Thompson.

  37. with that trade of Diaz to Toronto, one less option for a home for Galvis. Plus didnt get much in return. With Freddy’s salary and 1 year to free agency, and lack of demand for SS, they may end up just keeping him around.
    So many new young managers with succesful franchises. Joe Maddon with 12 years experience- the current managers of the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, World Champion Astros, Nationals and Mets have a combined 5 years of major league experience.

    1. Freddy could slide over to secoind base if Cesar is traded in two weeks.
      JPC gets installed at ss.

      1. maybe so. got the 2018 phils calendar in the mail, and i always try to read too much into it.
        No Freddy or CeHe on the Calendar. JP is Mr. May.
        Eickhoff, Neris, Altherr, Hoskins, Nola, Williams, Herrera, Franco, Alfaro get the other months. No VV.

        1. I think you are spot on with that calendar and what intentions it has in forecasting.
          Someone at the top has to have the final approval authority.
          My guess…..those in marketing had to have it passed across John Middleton’s desk at some point and he was asked for his take.

      2. Yes and it won’t matter much because Kingery should be up by June at the latest, with a possible promotion as early as mid-April. He’s either ready or very close to ready and when he gets to the bigs, he needs to play (and he will!).

  38. rocco…..”…..former major-league pitcher Mike Koplove joins the (Phillies) staff as a special assignment scout. Koplove, a Philadelphia native who pitched at Chestnut Hill Academy and the University of Delaware, most recently worked in scouting with the Anaheim Angels.”
    …local boy played Little League ball at DV in south Philly in the late 80s. .

  39. A lot of front office moves and promotions just announced. The most notable (to me) is a net gain of five more international scouts.

    1. The hire/promotion that most stood out to me was Keith Rudolf to full-time team chef. Another blow to my Otani plan.

    2. Local gal Corinne Landrey….former Crashburn Alley writer and big Phillies supporter was hired into the research and analytical department.
      In a field dominated by males….she stands head and shoulders above most of the fray with her expert analytical work and very clear and concise writing
      She should do great in her dream job i am sure.

      1. Another local gal (from my neck of the woods), Dana Parks has been hired as player development coordinator. She spent last season as an assistant in the Rays’ baseball operations department. Parks graduated from Vineland (N.J.) High School and St. Joseph’s University, where she played softball. Excellent hire by the Phils !!!

    1. IN all honesty, if we are “stuck” with too much talent, I’m ok with it. Don’t just trade a guy to just trade a guy. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the Phil’s try to move MAIKEL to a team willing to buy into his ceiling. Kingery or Cesar can man third for a few months next year.

      Or, Altherr gets injured a lot. Maybe nick Williams needs a demotion? One of those former two can man left field for a short spurt.

      I don’t want to trade Cesar for crap, just because, 3-WIN players are valuable.

      1. TBH … I would be shocked if the Phillies traded Maikel Franco this winter. They would be selling him for nickles on the dollar. They need to at least give him until the summer to attempt to re-establish some value. A decision on Franco most likely won’t be made until the Phillies sign MM next winter. At that time, Klentak can either deal their young 3Bman (especially if he has a good 2018) or keep him and use him in a platoon role as part of a very flexible Phillies lineup. Franco could play at 3B and 1B, MM could play 3B and SS, Rhys Hoskinks could play 1B and LF, JP Crawford and Scott Kingery could move throughout the IF, and even Andrew Knapp could see some time at 1B and possibly LF in addition to catcher.

  40. Buster Olney reports that the Marlins are focused more on shedding as much of Stanton’s salary as possible than they are in prospect return.

  41. Here’s Keith Law’s scouting report on Shohei Ohtani for ESPN Insiders
    * “Ohtani has hit 100 mph and can get to the upper 90s regularly, but doesn’t always pitch there; more than one scout told me he’d seen Ohtani sit at 91-plus and just reach back for mid-90s when he needed more, and everyone agreed that his fastball plays down a little from its velocity because it’s straight. His slider and splitter are both grade 70 pitches on the 20-80 scale; his curveball is more average, without the tight spin of Yu Darvish’s, to pick one easy comparison.
    Ohtani has above-average control but not command, possibly related to how late his arm is relative to his front foot landing, which is also a possible marker for injury risk over time.”

    * “There’s less consensus on Ohtani as a position player, although the one aspect on which most sources agreed is that he’s unlikely to develop into a major-league average hitter if he’s only playing part-time. Ohtani is an incredible athlete, an 80 runner when healthy who can get down the line in under 3.9 seconds, with a plus-plus arm (duh) and 70 raw power.”

    * “the swing looked long to me, to the point where I’d expect him to have a big hole on the inner third. The majority of scouts I asked said something along the same lines — although one strongly disagreed about the swing’s length — and thought that MLB pitchers who could run something in on a left-handed hitter would force him to make a major adjustment. He struck out at a high rate for an NPB hitter; he ranked fifth in the Pacific League in strikeout rate the past two years”

    * “Ohtani would make sense for any team strictly as a pitcher, and for any team as a bench player/part-time outfielder, especially in this era of 12- and 13-man pitching staffs that leave managers with comically short benches. I would not, however, project him to throw 200 innings — something he’s never done — this year, or assume he’ll add five wins or more to my team.”

    * “I don’t see how MLB could potentially punish the team that lands Ohtani if a year from now the club signs Ohtani to a five-year, $100 million extension, which would buy out his arbitration years at a high but not outrageous price. And if the team promises that today, quietly, and executes it far enough into the future, I don’t see how MLB would manage to catch them in the act — which is my long way of saying I expect someone to try this.”

    1. Looks iike KLaw is hedging his bet on Ohtani….”I would not, however, project him to throw 200 innings — something he’s never done — this year, or assume he’ll add five wins or more to my team.”,
      …… what he is saying, a 4.9WAR player!
      I still would take it.

  42. Apparently, Shohei Otahi is an NFL fan.

    If Otani likes football, hopefully he’s following the best team in the NFL (like the best player in the world does)

    The Phillies should also show Otani this to give him a taste of how electric Philadelphia can be when it comes to sports !

    If the Phillies make the first cut this weekend, they should bring along Bobby Clarke, Allen Iverson, and Chase Utley to the Otani interview to explain what it’s like to become a living legend in Philadelphia.

    1. I would ask Cliff Lee to join the group trying to sell Philly. Who better to tell someone how great Philadelphia is than a fellow pitcher who chose us over everyone (including a Yankees team that offered similar money)?

      Plus he knows we loved him even on days he struggled and he realizes our passion for our teams.

  43. Ohtani tells Yanks he is not going there! I wish I knew we had made some kind of effort. I don’t know where he ends up but there has been zero talk of a Phils oush

    1. I’ve been predicting Seattle for weeks now. Paxton and Otani is a very impressive one-two TOR duo.
      I’m so happy Otani isn’t going to the Yankees. Yankee fans/writers/bloggers were certain they were the front runners. LOL.

      1. I know it’s pretty unlikely but it seems that the Phillies have not specifically been said to be out of the running as of yet anyway, are we allowed to hope?

      2. The other fascinating spin to all this is what effect (if any) this has on the market for Atlanta Braves prospects who can be signed beginning Tuesday. The Yankees have 3.5 million dollars of J2 money for this year, but they were obviously planning to use that on Otani. Have they been negotiating with the former Atlanta teens, have they (not just Yankees, but all teams let down by Otani) been making offers to these kids with 2018 J2 money ? I feel pretty confident the Phillies will announce a signing with at least one former Brave come Tuesday.

  44. Seattle and SanFran appear to be finalists, don’t think Phils were ever a consideration. Could Giants get Ohtani and Stanton?!

  45. Following John Heman. So far, he lists these teams out of the running for Otani:
    Yankees, Mets, A’s, Brewers, Pirates, Twins, Red Sox, DBacks, and Blue Jays. Nothing on Phillies, yet.

  46. It appears the only two non-west coast teams still in the Ohtani hunt are the Rangers and Cubs. Oh well….

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