Open Discussion: Week of June 25th

The Phillies were 2-4 last week.  The Phillies had a modest 2-game winning streak when the won the getaway game in Saint Louis and the series opener in Arizona.  Aaron Nola and Mark Leiter pitched the Phillies to victories in those two games and the bullpen didn’t blow either game.

The Phillies finally cut loose Michael Saunders and Joely Rodriguez.  Players are moving up and down the organizational ladder and newly signed draft picks are receiving their first professional assignments.  And, Scott Kingery was finally promoted to Lehigh Valley.

The Phillies are still the worst team in baseball with a 24-50 record and .324 winning percentage.  They close out their series  against Arizona on Monday, then travel to Seattle for 2 games.  Thursday is a travel day, and the road trip ends with 3 games in New York against the Mets.

It’s too early to start tracking the worst record for draft purposes, but 1:1 looked a whole lot easier to attain before the San Francisco Giants imploded.

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

Key dates remaining:

  • June 26th – GCL Phillies’ season begins
  • July 31st – Non-waiver Trade Deadline
  • December 10-14th – Winter Meetings in Orlando
  • December 14th – Rule 5 Draft

Transactions: (includes roster juggling and paper moves)

  • 6/25 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated RHP Michael Mariot from the 7-day DL
  • 6/25 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 6/25 – 2B Jesus Henriquez assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/25 – RHP Justin Miller assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/25 – SS Jonathan Guzman assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/25 – IF Luis Encarnacion assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/25 – SS Nick Maton assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – OF Austin Listi assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – 3B Jake Scheiner assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – 2B Brian Mims assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – RHP Connor Brogdon assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – RHP Addison Russ assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/25 – LHP Zach Warren assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/24 – Royals traded RHP Mark Peterson to Philadelphia Phillies
  • 6/24 – RHP Mark Peterson assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 6/24 – Clearwater Threshers activated RHP Alberto Tirado from the temporarily inactive list
  • 6/23 – Phillies released RF Michael Saunders
  • 6/23 – Phillies released RHP Jeanmar Gomez
  • 6/23 – Phillies placed RHP Casey Fien on the 10-day DL. Shoulder impingement
  • 6/23 – Phillies recalled RHP Mark Leiter from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 6/23 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs placed RHP Pedro Beato on the temporarily inactive list
  • 6/23 – CF Simon Muzziotti assigned to Clearwater Threshers from GCL Phillies
  • 6/22 – LF Andrew Pullin assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils
  • 6/22 – LHP Joey DeNato assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Phils
  • 6/22 – RF Herlis Rodriguez assigned to Reading Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 6/22 – 2B Drew Stankiewicz assigned to Reading Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 6/22 – RHP Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Reading Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 6/22 – 3B Jose Antequera assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Reading Phils
  • 6/22 – Clearwater Threshers activated 2B Derek Campbell from the 7-day disabled list
  • 6/22 – RHP Will Hibbs assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 6/22 – LHP Bailey Falter assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Phillies XST
  • 6/21 – Phillies announced the signings of Adam Haseley, Spencer Howard, Jake Scheiner, Nick Maton, Jack Zoellner, and Connor Brogdon.
  • 6/21 – Clearwater Threshers placed 3B Damek Tomscha on the 7-day disabled list
  • 6/20 – Phillies designated RHP Jeanmar Gomez for assignment
  • 6/20 – Phillies designated RF Michael Saunders for assignment
  • 6/20 – Phillies placed RHP Jerad Eickhoff on the 10-day DL. Upper back strain
  • 6/20 – Phillies selected the contract of CF Cameron Perkins from Lehigh Valley
  • 6/20 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Hoby Milner from Lehigh Valley
  • 6/20 – Phillies recalled Brock Stassi from Lehigh
  • 6/19 – Clearwater Threshers placed Alberto Tirado on the temporarily inactive list.
  • 6/19 – 3B Jan Hernandez assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Phillies XST.
  • 6/19 – Raul Rivas assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 6/19 – Will Stewart assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Kyle Young assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Jhon Nunez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Justin Miller assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Cole Stobbe assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – IF Greg Pickett assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Luis Carrasco assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Josh Stephen assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Jhailyn Ortiz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Rodolfo Duran assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Malvin Matos assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Randy Alcantara assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Andrew Brown assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/19 – Gregori Rivero assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Phillies XST.
  • 6/19 – 2B Jesus Henriquez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 – C James Lovett assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 – LHP Orestes Melendez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 – RHP Gustavo Armas assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 – Oscar Marcelino assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/19 – Aaron Brown assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/19 – Sutter McLoughlin assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 6/19 – Sutter McLoughlin assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 _ Aaron Brown assigned to GCL Phillies from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/19 – LHP Jhordany Mezquita assigned to GCL Phillies
  • 6/19 – Bailey Falter assigned to Phillies XST from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 6/18 – Lehigh Valley placed RHP Michael Mariot on the 7-day DL. Lower back strain
  • 6/18 – RHP John Richy assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 6/18 – C Greg Brodzinski assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Phillies XST.
  • 6/17 – DSL Phillies White activated RHP Carlos Francisco.
  • 6/14 – Phillies signed LHP Jhordany Mezquita.
  • The organization rosters are almost up to date.

 

144 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of June 25th

    1. Sam………ss Luis Garcia for the top dog. Rank: 7 , from the DR
      Bats: S Throws: R Ht: 5’11” Wt: 160 lb.
      Hit: 50 Power: 35 Run: 60 Arm: 55 Field: 60

      “….can flash the leather on defense and has wowed scouts with his plus arm. Garcia has shown good range to all directions and a reliable glove, leading many to believe he will stay at shortstop for the rest of his career. Not surprisingly, he’s been praised for his good footwork and advanced body control…… switch-hitter has a short and quick swing. Garcia is a contact hitter with good speed and an approach that’s probably better suited for the top of the lineup….. a line-drive hitter that has not shown much power,…….Phillies are the favorites to sign him.”

      1. Looks like prospect 6 and 8 dont have commitments yet. Not happy Phils only linked to #7.

  1. Who’s in charge of baserunning?

    Pick offs are an indicator of lack of concentration and/or lethargy. Franco got nailed at 2b yesterday. This team has so many warts that citing one is like picking fly crap out of pepper. But poor baserunning has been the most glaring. Seems like a problem down on the farm as well. That’s simply fundamentals.

  2. Are they waiting until they return from this trip to send Ramos down? He’s 0-7 and I’m sure his confidence is totally shot. By going down to LHV he can work on things and pitch almost every day.

    1. I have absolutely no idea why he hasn’t been sent down. Luis Garcia is taking his high-leverage situations. Ramos has given up runs in his last 5 appearances. If he’s not the long man, then why is he in the bullpen?

  3. I’m not a big Marcus Hayes reader but today’s column on Mackanin is fantastic. I only hope MacKlentak read it. In any case, I also hope Dusty Wathan gets the call up with the rest of his players. This major league ship presently has no rudder.

    1. Yeah in one huge swoop promote the majority of AAA to majors. Alfaro, Hoskins, Kingery, Crawford, Cozens, and Williams. Sorry we don’t seem to have a 3rd baseman ready yet

  4. This Sept when Odubel is on the DL recovering from a brain transplant, the OF will be Williams, Altherr and Cozens. Infield will be Hoskins, Kingery, Crawford and Franco (if he hasn’t been traded). Knapp and Alfaro sharing the catching duties. It’ll be worth going to CBP if only to dream on these kids.

    I’m feeling pretty good about Nola and Pivetta. The bullpen is scrambled eggs.

    I hope MacKlentak are creative in trade packaging both veteran and controllable pieces to get real value in return. 5 WEEKS!

    1. 8mark…bullpens go year to year….no rhyme or reason.
      There are assets in AA and above that will help enhance the production in the future….well at least for next year.

    2. Creative, to the Yankees Joseph and Neshek plus prospects like Medina and Tomscha.

      To the Phils P Masahiro Tanaka (and his contract), IF Tyler Wade, OF Dustin Fowler, pitchers Chad Green, Caleb Smith, Ben Heller.

      Use the salary situation to add pieces who offer a challenge to the incumbents at 3B and CF.

      1. Tanaka apparently has a no trade contract coupled with an opt out after this season. He won’t be moved during the season and, as happens with opt outs, the worse he performs, the more likely he remains in NY to fulfill his contract.

  5. 8mark, I have no idea if MacPhail is even in the country. I do know the President of the team needs to be more in the open when his product is this drek. Lack of talent is one thing, certainly a big issue, but getting picked off 2d like Franco was yesterday is the product of simply not paying any attention. It happens way too often with this team and is inexcusable. That is not a matter of having patience. This team makes mistakes that are not tolerated in Little League. Herrera drops a fly ball because he did not know when to check out the wall behind him, so looked as the ball hit his glove. Fundamentally, they are terrible.

    1. matt13……….between Cesar, Odubel and Mikael there is a lot of high anxiety when they are on the bases. In Little League…there are no leads until the pitched ball passes the batter at the plate. I sure hope it doesn’t come to that with these guys.

  6. Franco & Doobie have been moved down in the lineup & given occasional days off, but still no meaningful change in their play.

    The next step is to platoon them with viable replacements. At this time, Perkins has not proven to be a viable platoon with Doobie. There is not a good 3B in the system to platoon with Franco.

    This approach can result in reduced trade values or light the fire needed to improve play. I believe Doobie has shown he can play the right way & would respond well to the platoon.

    Whereas, Franco has seriously regressed over the last season & half. He really has not found his groove yet in the majors.

    1. John, I wouldn’t hesitate to explore trading both Franco and Herrera regardless of their present value. What? Are we going to “wait around” for their values to climb? We’re supposedly in a rebuild. I believe that the FO has informed Pete to keep writing their names in the lineup in hopes that their play will improve.

      Boston needs a 3b and historically they’ve shown that they aren’t afraid to take on “projects”. It’s worked out okay for them – they’ve been competitive almost every year for nearly two decades.

      Ask the Texas GM Daniels what he’d give to get Doobie back. Or Toronto. Or maybe KC since they might find his small market team friendly contract appealing. Let’s not hold up the works for 2 guys who show no indication of becoming ballplayers in the true sense of the word.

      Let’s roll!!!!

      1. Agree with the idea of rolling this forward.

        The trade values for both Franco & Doobie are likely set.

        What I was outlining was a last ditch effort to get them going by implementing a platoon/part-time play with potential replacements. Roman Quinn is ready to come up, but there no real 3B option unless there is discussion of re-positioning.

      2. 8mark….if Dombrowski wanted Franco, would you be willing to take on Sandoval’s contract in the deal, to sweeten the pot with some of their prospects to be also included with Sandoval?

        1. Big Dave doesn’t trade for players like Franco not to be a negative nancy. Dave likes proven players and doesn’t shy away from giving up big name prospects to get them.

          Look at his history of moves going back to his Marlins days.

          1. I would think he would like to rid himself of that Sandoval contract. I remember when he made that Prince Fielder trade from the Tigers to Texas for Kinsler.
            The Fielder contract was an albatross for him at the time.
            .

            1. Yeah no doubt he would want to do that but first and foremost he is going to want a guy that will come in and produce and that’s not Franco right now.

              Illitch by the way was responsible for that Fielder contract. Dombo wanted no parts of that to begin with.

          2. That said I still think the right play when it comes to Franco is to send him down for a while.

            1. Makes sense…..but ‘his launch angles and exit velos” are all trending positive as a hitter, no need to send him down…..M.Klentak

        2. Sandoval is merely an older version of Franco whose body type may resemble that of the Panda as he nears 30. I’d only take him and his contract as long as 2 good people are included.

          1. That would be the idea……Phillies would have to take him off their hands to get more in return….Franco’s current production does not dictate anything of return value….his financial status, his length of control, his power potential and his ‘veteran’ youthfulness are his last and best selling points.

            1. Boston not rebuilding three looking for a MlB vet. Franco not going to help them win a World Series . No teams that are going for the playoffs are taking Franco . Boston can easily get a free agent. In the off season .

          2. 8mark….Sox will try to get a third baseman somewhere…maybe Frazier…who knows….but Boston is in serious need of aid at the hot corner…. the club’s third basemen rank last in the majors in wRC+ (a low of 44) and fWAR (minus-1.3).

    1. You wonder if Jake Thompson is only in the rotation because there aren’t any other options (Eflin hurt, Pivetta up, Lively up).

  7. Edubray down to AAA, Pinto up.
    Still no Kendrick again in the starting lineup.

    Perkins experiment may be over.

    TODAY Nava, Galvis, Altherr, Franco, Herrera, Blanco, Stassi, Knapp, Pivetta.

    1. Thank god! Hopefully Ramos can his act together at Lehigh.

      I think Nick Williams is maybe a week away from getting his callup

      1. Only if Kendrick is traded but that is murky what with his hammie. Not because he’s an OF, he’s a 2b but yes to replace him on the 25man.

  8. Cody Bellinger is having a pretty good year….I looked at who were drafted ahead of him…Bryant, Judge…but also Andrew Knapp, Tom Windle, Cord Sandberg, Jan Hernandez, Jake Sweaney…….what became of Jake Sweaney?

  9. the FO should need to be visionaries and think 2 steps ahead (like what smart FOs do) rather than acting like fans who is “into this current moment” and likes to romanticize players that did a good job in the past. the FO have the resources (not the fans), so they should use those resources to get the best coaches and players and show the fans that they are committed to grant every baseball fans wish — a world series.

    elite talent is what this organization lacks and that what they focus on acquiring. enough with players with average skills and low ceiling and hope that these players will become “awesome” one day.

    i’ve been critical of Doobie and Cesar in the past (and suggest to roll the dice and trade them when the value is high) since the Phils have better options down in the minors. Franco is the only young core that i’ve been neutral — but i don’t see him as the future 3B, thus, I push for Machado.

    at the end of this season, the FO needs to do the following:

    a) cut loose all nonperforming personnel (players, coaches) whether they eat contracts or don’t maximize trade value
    b) identify players with real talent and upside, give them the opportunity to play every day – start 2018 with Quinn-JPC-Kingery-Cozens-Hoskins-Nick-Alfaro-Franco (is he’s there) if that’s the best they have.
    c) a fans dream should be a normal task for the FO – go after the best talent out there period. fans will say this or that player will not sign here, who cares. the fans don’t negotiate with the agents and the players, the FO do.

    “The Process” has been a painful experience for the Sixers fans. But Hinkie detached himself with the fans emotional state and set a vision of accumulating assets (players and draft picks) and creating a cap space flexibility – 4 yrs after, the Sixers look like have a strong core that can make a sustainable run in the future. The Phils did the 2nd part (flexibility) but were not creative enough to create opportunities to acquire talent and not decisive enough to stick to the vision.

    1. KuKo…..just get that numero uno pick in 2018….the Giants would seem to be the road block….hopefully Bumgarner comes back and gets them over the hump of sorts.
      The first pick could be Beer, maybe a generational hitter in the Harper mold or maybe there will be a lites-out college pitcher on the scene…..add Haseley coming up also, along with the crew at LHV. Then things will change.
      And just adding a FA like Machado tops the cake.

      1. If they sign beer will he start in the dsl league. OMG A college first round pick in gcl. That will tell us a lot. It just gets worse and worse.

        1. rocco…apparently the Phillies are taking it slow with Haseley, as opposed to the Conforto(Mets) and Benintendi (Sox) plan utilized with those two. I had assumed all along, perhaps erroneously, that Haseley had similar skill sets to those two…..but perhaps those skill sets will be at a different level.
          I would also hope th GCL is just a kick-off for a brief period of a 3/4 weeks, and onto the NYPL in August.

    2. The good news is that there aren’t contracts to eat beyond that of Herrera. And only 5 current players are arbitration-eligible.

      Rather than sell low, the Phils should bring in young talent to compete with the under-performers. Franco has to realize that currently there is no real competition coming along behind him. That has to change. Herrera needs to feel the pressure a healthy Quinn can provide.

      I think the real message going into 2018 ST is that no jobs are locked up — every starting position, every spot in the rotation, every slot in the bullpen is up for grabs. That is the news every potential free agent considered for signing should hear from Klentak.

    3. Mac is hitting .228 .299 .446 not much better then Franco . Buy low Balt need pitching say Kilome, VV , Romero, Nick Williams and Franco . That’s 1 middle of the rotation bat . Now get JD Martinez sell medium he’s vg but on the block . Now if the want the Phillies to take Sanchez contract then Justin Wilson will Also comes to us. Deroit wants to rebuild so , Hoskins , Ceaser ,Herrera , Hellickson, Rupp , Eickhoff and Singer the pitcher. Alot I know butt a line next yr power, avg ,defense, speed Kingery, Jp, Altherr, Mac_ado ,JD Martinez, ToJo, Pullin, knapp.bench Alfaro, Cozens,Quinn, Valinten. Sp Nola, Pivetta,Lively ,FA ,FA.You still have Trade chips in Neshek , Galvis , Kendrick, Nervis . Your lineup has a lot of swing and Miss. Quinn injury probe ,Cozens has issues with Lhp,most are Rookies.

  10. Another disaster today, and they are talking about Kendrick back to the DL. They better trade him as soon as he is back playing because trying to hold out to the very last at the trade deadline will, almost assuredly, backfire on them. KuKo, you are right. Next year forget this veteran fodder that they hope brings back something in July. Play the kids wherever they can. They need to make a decision on Herrera, Cesar and TJ. They will need to pull the trigger on some controllable assets and hope to get a single, better, player back. Altherr has earned a spot and another year for Hoskins in AAA is a waste of time. Quinn has to play in the Majors or go elsewhere and Williams will probably be up in 3 weeks.

  11. On a team this dreadful , could someone please tell me how Andres Blanco is so indispensable as a mentor batting .179?

  12. Isn’t it sad? We are barely 75 games into the season and we are already talking about the 2018 1-1 pick and next season’s spring training. I feel like Papelbon did in his last year here when he said, “I didn’t sign up for this”.

    I’ve been following this team since the end of the 1963 season so it’s way too late to jump ship. But guys, this team is awful! And with two coming up in Seattle and then the usual pounding from the Mets, the Phillies might not win a game this week.

  13. When MK said ‘ everyone one on the market he meant form AAA down too ‘. I think there’s going to be a few new M L coming over form trades. signing aging FA didn’t help or 1 yr players. There’s more of a selection at this yr trade deadline.

  14. 1other I did A little research on Tojo his .ops was .408 last July , last month it was .373 this month it’s .330 he learning . He’s learning at the major league level.2 When a player success level Jumps I look for a change . Last yr Tojo lost 20 PDS and had his vision corrected with new contacts. 3 it’s almost impossible to gauge his minor league stats . His last full season in the minors was when he was 21. Then came the head injuries Tojo next full season was last yr at 25 yrs old. This will be his first full season in the major leagues. 4 he hit LHP last yr at a .281 .350 .562 chip his yr .229 .313 ..529 chip . He hit .248 . .291 .482 against Rhp last yr . this yr .281 .319 .425 against Rhp so clearly he can adjust and learn. Now when he gets himself corrected against LHP his numbers will improve his .ops should go over .900.

  15. The one team with an attractive farm system whom the Phillies should look to make a significant trade is the Yankees. Hellickson, Kendrick, Neshek, Benoit, Franco, Joseph, Nava. The right combination of any of these pieces should get us 2 good prospects and maybe a useful if expendable major league player in return.

    1. Nope no more prospect mL players. Both Boston and the Yanks are going after Gray. From Oakland .

    2. Joseph and Neshek to the Yanks for IF/OF Tyler Wade and P’s Chad Green and Caleb Smith. Reports have Yanks investing small at IB while holding out hope for Bird.

      Wade at 3B is the competition Franco desperately needs. Green is next year’s 8th inning guy and Smith, a lefty, competes to start. Oh, and sign Henderson Alvarez now.

    1. Tim…thank you…very in depth….though take exception with one projection..Rhys Hoskins’…..no way Chris Carter/Darin Ruf comp…. ceiling50/40.
      Not sure I buy into that scouting report.

    2. Thank you for the link Tim, lots of good info there. However, Like Romus, I disagree with the projection on Hoskins. I would also have to disagree strongly on Kingery, Johnny Giovatella? Personally, I don’t see KIngery as a AAAA player like Giovatella. Otherwise, I thougtht it was very thorough, informative, and well done.

    3. Kingery I think was before the season Kingery HR power didn’t come until after. Hopkins my friend puts it the best. AAA is the perfect place for a hitter like Hopkins.his batting eye is suited for that league. Young hitters chase breaking balls,Hopkins doesn’t he feast on the 87, 92 fb . Hopkins may find ML fb a lot more trying the breaking pitchers too.. Hopkins relies on a power swing not a fast swing like Nick Williams.

  16. PREDICTION – Pete doesn’t last past the all star break. Bowa will be asked to take over on interim basis. Wathan takes the big league helm in ’18. He’s on the climb.

    1. That could be a real possibility.
      Well Pete would have made it past Ryne Sandberg’s exit two years ago, by a few weeks. Actually it was two years ago yesterday when he resigned..

      1. If they do decide to can Pete I would go with Sammy as the interim. I’d like to see how they respond to him first.

        1. I agree. I would hope that, by this point, even Bowa knows that his temperament is not a good fit, as a manager, with young players.

          1. FWIW Juan Samuel was the first time I became aware of prospects as a kid. I went out and bought a bunch of Topps Juan Samuel rookie cards thinking they would make me rich one day.

            I still have them LOL

            1. I can’t remember enjoying watching a player like I did Sammy. What a dynamic player! He could have been even better on a good team, statistically.

          2. concern with giving Sammy the interim role is that he’s being set up to fail. No one is getting this team to win….

            If they give the job to Sammy they better be ready to move forward with him for the next couple of seasons, otherwise they are going to take the PR hit for screwing over a loyal, Latino coach…

      2. Losing wears on you that’s what make’s Brett Brown so impressive to me. I think Pete’s back broke when Saunders failed to solidify the line-up.

        1. Pete never had a chance from the get go. The FO gave him a few “has beens”, “hope to be’s” and DL ready participant’s in the hope by some miracle he could turn it into a ,500 ball club. I guess if I had my choice, I think I’d like to see Sammy get a chance, but man the task is like hiking up the Himalayas. These guys reek, can’t execute fundamental baseball, and several have an IQ of -10.

    2. Wathan I can see in’18 with MacKanin canned one day after the season ends. They took him on when Sandberg put the organization in a bind. No way do they pay him back by pulling the rug in mid-season. The front office has to know their moves have not helped. In a better world Klentak would be gone after the season as well. But that’s unlikely.

  17. As I look at the current 40man roster, here are the players ranked in order as potentially having most value to contending teams. (This is NOT who I think are most likely to be dealt.)

    1 Cesar Hernandez 2b – the biggest chink in his armor right now is the DL. However, assuming he’ll be ok in the 2nd half, some team may like his game enough to offer something of value, especially if he’s packaged with other pieces. Besides, he’s also under control for a few more years.

    2 Freddy Galvis ss – he’s a FA after’18 and worth more now than a year from now. An excellent VERSATILE glove with POP is valuable if not in high demand.

    3 Pat Neshek rp – Every contender wants to set up the backend of their bullpen for the stretch run and into the playoffs. He’s the best available guy.

    T4 Howie Kendrick if/lf – he’s hurt and that alone will diminish our return on him, and that’s providing he’s not on the DL come the deadline.

    T4 Tommy Joseph – a good fit for an AL club looking for depth at 1b/DH.

    6 Odubel Herrera – he should be higher on this list. ‘nuf said….his small market team friendly contract is about his only appealing aspect as of today. Let’s hope he shoots up this list within 5 weeks.

    7 Maikel Franco 3b – he’s a project right now still with upside. It would require a leap of faith by a rival GM to take him on such risk. But at least he’s still relatively cheap.

    8 Jeremy Hellickson – the Phillies will likely find him a destination. Baltimore or even the Yankees might bite if the remaining salary is eaten. A trade last year would of course brought something of value in return. This time a lottery ticket or 2, especially if he pitches well in July.

    9 Daniel Nava of – another AL bench player which limits his value.

    10 Joaquin Benoit rp – he is what he is at 40. Somebody will grab him for a bag of balls and a low A suspect.

    I also considered Cameron Rupp and Mark Appel as pieces possibly thrown in on a package. Rupp is safer now that current catching depth isn’t as deep as we’d wish.

    1. 8mark….since it looks like this is a daydream session….here is my take on getting Manny Machado, Since IMO he will either re-sign with the Os or be traded before free agency…Duquette will not settle for just one comp pick if he leaves.
      Here is what I think may pique the Os interest in an offer for Manny after this season and before the winter meetings:
      1. Maikel Franco
      2. One pitcher…(their choice of one….Velasquez, Eickhoff, Lively or Pivetta)…no Nola
      3. One pitcher…(their choice of one….Eflin, Thompson, Eshelman, Appel, Anderson)
      4. One OFer…….(their choice of one….Herrera, Williams, Cozens, Quinn or Pullin) …no Altherr
      5. One catcher…(their choice of one….Alfaro, Knapp or Rupp)
      6. Finally, based on the Phillies finish in 2017…..their international pool will be high….so IMO, offer $500K from the international pool.

      1. Romus, is this contingent upon the Phillies coming to extension terms with Machado? Otherwise no dice. I’d rather wait until he becomes a FA. Baltimore is too cheap to re-sign him. Let some other team rent him for 2 to 6 months.

        Anyway, I’d like to see him rebound from this lackluster stretch he’s been in. He’ll still have to show me something next season or turn it around in the 2nd half of ’17 if I’m considering pursuing an extension deal.

        1. Yes….sign and trade…his agent Dan Lozano would have to be apart of it all also.
          Thta is the way it would work with any of the teams that will be bidding for his services via a trade with the Os.
          His current slump……I do’t think that will affect his standing all that much. All players go thru dry spells.

        2. Forgot…under the new CBA the Phillies international pool as a large market team is now set at $4.75M….it is no longer contingent on the teams final standing in the previous season. So offering some international pool money becomes a more valued trade chip.

      2. When your dealing with a player like Machado it’s 2 top 10 prospects then you ask them what they want. Because his type of player has a huge market. Phillies offer has to beat about 20 teams offers.

    2. No team of all Rookies will be successful they will loss 100. No NFL team would ,NBA , Hockey of All Rookies would.

  18. Would anyone trade Franco to Boston for lhp Henry Owens as a swap of 2 once highly regarded top prospects? Would Boston?

    1. I am mention this before Henry Owens is a loogy at best. i Have seen him a number of times. I would never take him for franco. I would rather take some international money for franco to spend on a latin kid. then take owens.

  19. Starlin Castro placed on DL by NYY. Not supposed to be long term injury BUT would the Yanks be interested in either Cesar or Freddy if it became prolonged?

  20. Kingery not on the 40 ty man and doesn’t have to be protected this yr . He will come up in Sept. Really no need to rush him let him enjoy AAA. He will start next yr . By that time the Phillies should have better player s.

  21. Franco’s game last night could serve as a springboard for him to up his trade value. He’s historically streaky that way. Of course, then everyone will want to keep him, right?

      1. 8mark……Franco does have those excitable moments….and all hope this was the game that will see the turn around and start to become the player everyone expected him to be back in 2015
        Also hope he takes the team’s losing personally, like it seems it has with Freddy.

        1. Franco does seem to be more serious as of late as he should be, with him however the big question ……………………..will it stick?

        2. It mite be because Franco 24 has never faced what he’s facing now. Really it’s Called growing pains. It’s funny Machado was hitting .228 everybody loves because he not a Philly. Franco a rare player both Offense and Defense . Maybe Galvis mini blow up helped. It’s not you Romus and I can get mad too. But I’m more mad at the not having more mL vets to help most prospect will never make there ceilings .

  22. Hats off to Dalton Guthrie becoming CWS Champ. He had a heck of a season I hope we get him signed…

  23. Yesterday Todd Zolecki was asked his opinion of the first 6 hitters in Lehigh’s lineup, “star” or “not a star”. He answered….

    Kingery – star
    Crawford – not
    Alfaro – not
    Cozens – star
    Hoskins – star
    Williams – not

    The question I would ask is “What is NOT a star? How good can a non-star be? Above average? Only average or less?”

    Kingery – well above average to star
    Crawford – average to above
    Alfaro – above average
    Cozens – above average
    Hoskins – well above average
    Williams – average to above

    1. Also would like to see what Corey Seidman would predict for each of the above individuals. Seidman is more of an analytical guy.

    2. 8mark, are you stealing material from George Carlin?……………….the whole world is going down the tube, has anyone ever seen the tube, how big is the tube, if you get to close to the tube will it suck you in? lol I love it.

    3. You could have said the same for guys like JRoll, Chase, The Big Piece, & The Flyin Hawaiin. They all became all-stars.

  24. Time to revive the CeHe trade discussion. Kingery should have 120+ more AB’s in AAA by the trade deadline, providing a data set on hitting. Unless, his power continues in AAA (25 HR?) & we start entertaining the idea of Kingery at 3B as a replacement to Franco. I personally would like to see the top of the lineup of Quinn, CeHe, & Kingery next year.

    With that said, it would be prudent to let the season play out with Kingery in order to make that determination.

  25. Speaking of trade discussions and trade values, Howie told Pete he couldn’t go today after Mackanin penciled him in earlier. According to Jim Salisbury, the DL is looking likely before Friday’s game at Citifield.

    Question – who gets called up?

  26. Neshek and Kendrick are the biggest deadline trade pieces but realistically, what are they going to fetch? Both are free agents to be, old, and have hefty salaries. Unless the Phillies are willing to eat the remainder of what’s owed to them (like what they did with Papelbon and Revere), there won’t be much of a return.

    1. ciada…..all the trade chips they have…I’d try to cash them in to other penalized teams for added money…..increase the base international pool from $4.75M to the max of $8.3M….and then go ahead and make some big dollar Latin signings.
      But starting to get that feeling, based on the limited number of trades along those lines, that baseball GMs value their international money like NFL GMs value draft choices…to the extreme. whenever trades are made, the amount is usually smaller than I would have thought for a particular slot.

      1. There will be probably be 2/3 dozen more when all is said and done.
        Garcia right now is the top ranking Latin player of the grouip.
        Raimfer Salinas, an OFer is a top ten guy and not linked to any team as of 3/4 weeks ago…..I doubt the Phillies will sign him, but he was available at the time.

          1. Tim…are these the two you are referring to?
            Victor Vargas, RHP, Col…and Carlos Betancourt, RHP, Ven.

  27. Considering his relatively high OBP (though he’s got some swing and miss, but who doesn’t anymore?), Altherr should be the Phillies leadoff hitter. Not sure Pete has any idea what he wants to do with the top of the lineup. He still loves him some Freddy in that 2 hole. Yeesh!

  28. Matt Holliday has been placed on the 10 day DL by NYY with an undisclosed illness. All the best to him but stay tuned regarding any long-term impact for trade considerations involving the Phillies. Kendrick, Joseph…?

    1. Understand, MLBTR posted Yankees are looking for a LHB at first to complement Judge and Sanchez….Justin Bour of the Marlins was rumored, if they plan on selling. Joseph could be plan C or D on the Yankees desire list for first base.

    2. Nope Yanks going after Prado and they said that Bird is there long term 1st baseman. They looking at Prado or Tyler Wade who s already on the team Clint Frazier is almost ready to come up per there gm. This is all on there wed site .

  29. With Howie Kendrick headed to the DL, Phils have a 40man roster dilemma. And with Elniery Garcia being reinstated this Monday, more so. The only healthy position players are Alfaro, Williams and Cozens. Appel, Thompson, and Ramos (who was just demoted) are the only pitchers if they choose to go with a short bench but that’s not likely. Pedro Florimon is the most likely non-40man guy to get called up but then who goes? And then who does Garcia (a lefty) replace on Monday? Or does he? Gonna be interesting.

    1. 8 mark Maybe its my old age, but what problem. They could cut five right now who outright stink . Morgan first leiter second, fien third, Thompson, romas appel. all stink I just don’t understand like there are all stars on the 40 man. If that was true we wouldn’t be the worst team in baseball.

      1. You cannot give up on Thompson now…..he has youth on his side. And Appel also could eventually turn it around, maybe not as a starter but perhaps as a reliever.
        The others are maybe, as they say….fungible.

    2. Sorry for my lack of clarity. My point wasn’t so much about who gets dropped from the 40man but rather who gets placed ON it should they opt for a non-roster player to come up. You’re right. Garcia will probably displace Fien.

  30. Report out today that the Twins will be buyers seeking long term assets at the trade deadline. We have one or two that might be served well by a change of scenery.

  31. TJ projects to be a 30 HR guy over a full season, but is about average elsewhere, and not quite average defensively. He should still be a decent trade chip. Hoskins projects, all the way around, to have a greater ceiling. Klentak has to earn his job by making that call and a call on trading Cesar, and going with Hoskins and Kingery next season. There is OF surplus as well that will need to be consolidated. I just don’t know how confident I am in Klentak

        1. Jim errors don’t tell the story. I Have seen Hopkins he has no range. not saying he is better or worse player than tj. but Hopkins isn’t a good fielder imo and I have seen him a lot now. So errors never really tell the whole story on fielders A lot of good fielders get to more balls than others so they make more errors, its a fact.

    1. ,Matt my man Sheldon or Matt as you call him. is imo a moron. plain and simple. I really hope middleton gets us someone with guts to run this team

  32. Nick Williams called up. With Williams at +800 OPS in AAA, Kendrick back to the DL & Kelly manning 2B, this was a no brainer. It’s great they didn’t wait until after All-Star break. This guarantees that Kendrick will either be traded or released. Quinn would be the next call up.

    As for ToJo, I like his play & believe his production would be generally similar to Hoskins (More HR, less OBP, same level of Defense)

    With that said, I would be okay with a Hoskins trade if it yields an excellent pitching prospect or up & coming SP in return. Either way, it would be shameful to keep Hoskins in AAA for the remainder of the season given his performance.

    Recently read Franco is making incremental improvement over last 15 games in walking more, with his power potential & plus defense being worth waiting.

    Either way, he could be an excellent trade chip with a strong finish. If Kingery hits 30+ this year in the minors, do you consider putting him at 3B in the fall league in preparation for spring training?

    1. John, I don’t think you’ll see either Quinn or Cozens called up later unless Herrera is traded or an OF injury presents an opportunity. When the time comes, and assuming Kendrick is gone, either Cesar resumes at 2b or (if he incurs a rehab setback) Kingery gets called up if the team is showing on the field uptick. Otherwise a journeyman IF will man 2b. If Quinn is healthy (BIG IF) then I think he would get the call over Cozens should Doobie be moved. Ideally I’d like to see Williams-Altherr-Cozens but that might have to wait until next spring.

      In any case, my August lineup would look like this –

      Altherr cf
      *Hernandez 2b
      Cozens rf
      Hoskins 1b
      Williams lf
      Franco 3b
      Knapp c
      Galvis ss

  33. Matt Gelb had this little tidbit when writing about Nick Williams’ call up today:
    “His strikeout rate this season in 302 plate appearances at triple A was 29.5 percent. His walk rate was 5.3 percent. Just five players since 2010 have netted 300 plate appearances in the majors with a higher strikeout rate paired with a lower walk rate: Mike Zunino (2014), Danny Espinosa (2014), Brandon Barnes (2014), Junior Lake (2014) and J.P. Arencibia (2013).”

    ………….hopefully Nick Williams will be the exception.

  34. JUST SAYIN’

    Nats ss Trea Turner out with a broken wrist, likely long term. Zach Cozart is a possible trade target but he’s a FA after this season. Freddy would give them a solid replacement and still be around next year as a super U guy or they could flip him. What’s it worth to us if anything?

  35. Yes but right now Cozart is the better play .1 the nats are for it this yr it will cost less for a rental then Galvis . 2 the Mets also have SS that’s dieing to leave. 3 KC also has An Ss too. Teams that are going for if don’t think long term . 4 Galvis is a FA in 2018 he’s Everyday SS he can easy hit the FA market . Nats aren’t going to trade for 1 more of control. 5 Jp hitting .220 in his second year of AAA.

  36. I hope Nick Williams does Good I think Phillies are trying to what there have in prospects for long term. Maybe there showcase them for possible trades.Phillies have so many LH hitting outfielder’ s .

    1. Tim…seven that they are counting on now and also at some point in the near future…Herrera, Williams, Cozens, Pullin, Moniak, Randolph and now add Haseley.
      That is a lot.

      1. Herrera will be gone by next year’s trade deadline.

        Pullin is AL material and perhaps a valuable trade piece but the jury is still out on him at AAA.

        Either Williams OR Cozens will stay while the other is either traded or doesn’t make it.

        Randolph is a hard read. Right now he’s young still but he’s been in the system long enough as a 1st rounder to expect more from him.

        Moniak seems so far away until he starts to light it up.

        I’m becoming more impressed with Haseley by the day. Wasn’t thrilled about him on draft day but he seems to be a man among boys anywhere below high A.

      2. LoL include Stassi , and H Rod In Reading . It is a lot trading Williams who has a swing and Miss issue so does Cozens . However Cozens gas the Elite power , Williams nothing really stands out because of his K % . He’s going up against Degrom that’s cruel. Pullin next yr might be ready and better.

  37. McPHAIL SPEAKS!

    Per Jim Salisbury, in answer to the question of whether the Phillies will pursue high ticket long term FAs this winter:

    “I think we are right now – if Matt [Klentak] sees something he thinks is part of the long-term picture and feels like it’s a hole we need to fill or that we don’t have internal answers – I absolutely see that.”

    Reading between the lines of other answers he gave, I gather that the second half of the season will determine whether Franco and Herrera are part of the future as well.

    1. He also repeated that NINE players have made their major league debut this season which isn’t quite halfway over, reiterating that this season is all about finding out which players will be a part of the future, regardless of how disappointing the team has been.

    2. The only FAs I think are worth considering are RHPs Yu Darvish and Lance Lynn, OF JD Martinez, and 3b Mike Moustakas. SS Zach Cozart is 32(?) if they decided to move on from either Freddy or JP. Otherwise, they’ll have to package some prospects in order to acquire a TOR arm or top tier position players.

      1. The biggest FA target this offseason is Shohei Otani. MacKlentak should be all in on the 23 YO superstar.

        1. hinkie everywhere I read the Phillies aren’t in on Otani. Other then LA I don’t think he wants to come to the NL he wants to hit.

    3. Yea that hole question was do you think the Phillies can go after a big ticket player ? Then Macphail said ” yes if MK see an opening for the long term …. ” .there are no untouchable’s in the Phillies minor league sys per Macphail.

  38. Wierd rumor going around social Media is that Nick Williams only up for a couple of days . However is he hits enough he could make them rethink .

    1. Nick Williams has been looking real good at the plate. He’s been patient, and really hasn’t been overmatched at all.

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