Box Score Recap – 5/18/2017

Lehigh Valley couldn’t hold on to a big lead and saw its 12 game win streak come to an end.

Reading won their fifth consecutive game.

Clearwater was swept in a four game series, scoring 8 runs total, getting outscored 20-8.

Lakewood fell nine runs behind and couldn’t make it all the way back.

Lehigh Valley (26-14) blew a 7-1 lead and lost to Rochester, 10-8.

Mark Appel couldn’t hold onto a 6-run lead and was relieved by Michael Mariot  (1-2, 5.27) in the fourth inning.  Mariot stemmed the tide in the fourth but the only out he recorded in the fifth was on a play at the plate.  By the time he left, the IronPigs were trailing by three runs.  Hoby Milner (0.00) and Colton Murray (4.09) pitched scoreless over the final 3.2 innings, but the ‘Pigs could only get one run back.

Rhys Hoskins hit 2 HR (12) and had 5 RBI (35).  Dylan Cozens hit a solo HR (11) and had an RBI (32).  Nick Williams had 2 hits.  Taylor Featherston picked up an outfield assist.  The IronPigs committed 3 errors.

  • #1 Crawford (.185): 1-4 with a run scored, BB
  • #3 Alfaro (.289): DNP
  • #4 Williams (.261): 2-4 with a run scored
  • #6 Quinn (.284): 0-4 with a BB, K
  • #9 Cozens (.212): 1-5 with a run scored, HR (11), RBI (32), 3 K
  • #12 Pivetta (2-0, 0.69): DNP
  • #13 Hoskins (.343): 2-4 with 2 runs scored, 2 HR (12), 5 RBI (35), BB
  • #17 Pinto (3-3, 5.85): DNP
  • #20 Appel (2-2, 6.69): 3.1 IP, 6 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 2 BB, 2 K, 2 HR, WP, 2 HBP
  • #25 Lively (5-1, 3.19): DNP
  • #30 Valentin (.229): 7-day DL

Reading (22-13) beat Erie, 8-3.

Reading built an early 2-run lead on Andrew Pullin’s solo HR in the first inning and Mitch Walding’s RBI single in the second.  After Shane Watson gave up the lead on a 3-run HR in the bottom of the second, the Phils regained the lead with 3 runs in the third on pinch hitter Kyle Martin’s 3-run HR (6).  They added 2 more runs in the fourth on Osmel Aguila’s solo HR (1) and Pullin’s RBI single.  They tacked on a run in the ninth on Walding’s RBI double.

Watson pitched just 3.0 innings.  He gave up the 3 earned runs on 5 hits and 3 walks.  He struck out six.  Mario Sanchez (2-0, 1.90) pitched 3.0 scoreless innings and got the win. Austin Davis (0.00) struck out 3 in 2.0 scoreless innings.  And, Jesen Therrien pitched a perfect ninth.

  • #11 Kingery (.277): 0-4 with a run scored, SB (9)
  • #18: El. Garcia: Restricted List,  80-Game suspension
  • #22 Anderson (3-0, 4.67): DNP
  • #23: Arano: 7-Day DL
  • #24 Tocci (.328): DNP
  • #28 Canelo (.295): 0-4 with a BB, 3 K
  • Pullin (.345): 3-4 with 2 runs scored, double, HR (9), 2 RBI (29), BB
  • Tromp (.269): 1-5 with a run scored, K

Clearwater (22-19) lost to Fort Myers, 5-2.

Alberto Tirado (2-3, 4.86) pitched 5.0 innings and gave up 4 runs on 5 hits and 3 walks.  He struck out seven.  Luke Leftwich (4.43) pitched 2.0 scoreless innings.  Jeff Singer (1.83) gave up a run and struck our two in one inning in a non-save situation.

The Threshers managed 9 hits and 4 doubles, but still could score just two runs on Jan Hernandez’ 2-run HR (7).  Herlis Rodriguez (.303) and Emmanuel Marrero (.274) had 2 hits each.

I listened to the game.  Fort Myers’ announcer seemed impressed with Tirado’s slider.  He remarked favorably about it often.  Tirado threw 96 pitches, 56 strikes.  The announcer also indicated that the first run Tirado gave up was unearned due to an error by the shortstop.  The ruling must have been changed later.  On the play, Marrero went down to his knee and tried to field a ground ball on his back hand.  The ball glanced off his glove.  If the ball had been fielded cleanly, it would have been the third out.

  • # 5 Kilome (2-2, 3.98): DNP
  • #10 Randolph (.188): 0-2 with a BB, sac
  • #27 Ed. Garcia (1-0, 3.45): DNP
  • #29 Pujols (.174): 1-4 with a double, 2 K

Lakewood (22-18) lost to Hagerstown, 11-8.

Ranger Suarez (2-1, 2.43) was lifted after 2.0 innings and 64 pitches.  He gave up 3 runs on 3 hits and 3 walks.  He struck out four. Jonathan Hennigan (5.71) relieved and gave up 6 runs in 2.2 innings on 7 hits and a walk.  Zach Morris (4.96) followed and gave up 2 runs on 4 hits in 1.2 innings.  Trevor Bettencourt (0.75) came in to retire the last five batters.

Raul Rivas (.333) went 3-6 with 2 double and an RBI.  Cord Sandberg (.289) went 2-5 with a HR (3) and 2 RBI.  Carlos Duran (.219) went 2-5 with a double and 3 RBI.  Mickey Moniak and Edgar Cabral had 2 hits each.

  • #2 Moniak (.275): 2-5 with a run scored, K
  • #7 Sanchez (1-2, 3.70): DNP
  • #16 Medina (1-2, 2.03): DNP
  • #19 Brito (.263): 0-5 with 2 K
  • #26 Romero (2-1, 2.11): DNP

Williamsport (0-0) – first game on Monday, June 19th at State College.

  • #8 Gowdy
  • #15 Stobbe
  • #21 Ortiz

GCL Phillies (0-0) – first game on Monday, June 26th v. Yankees West.

DSL Phillies (0-0) – first game on Saturday, June 3rd.

DSL Phillies2 (0-0) – first game on Saturday, June 3rd.

Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.

Transactions (and paper moves)

  • 5/18 – Phillies optioned RHP Nick Pivetta to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/16 – Reading Fightin Phils activated 3B Harold Martinez from the 7-day DL.
  • 5/16 – Austin Davis assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/16 – Harold Arauz assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/16 – Brandon Leibrandt assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/16 – Tyler Hallead assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/16 – Tom Windle assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/15 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers
  • 5/15 – Jose Taveras assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 5/15 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs released LHP Wander Perez (0-0, 5.63).
  • 5/15 – Phillies optioned Ben Lively to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/14 – Phillies recalled Ben Lively from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

154 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 5/18/2017

  1. On twitter a ton of people tweeted out one of Crawfords AB . . . it was, I believe a 14 pitch ab . . . I think it says a lot that people are getting so excited over ONE ab. It reminds me a of when famous Twins coach Bill Heywood got excited with one of his personal favorite players, Jerry Johnson (who was in a prolonged slump)when he hits a 100 hopper through the inf for a single . . . seeing how excited Heywood was bc of the single Bench Coach Mac Macnally leans over and says something to the extent of, “Don’t you think it says something when you are getting this excited over a seeing eye single?”

    1. We have nothing else to cheer about. Sheldon has put together a terrible team. Rehired a bad manager. So one good at bats is great for us fans.

    2. Crawford has been hot of late a 3 hit game and his first HR, and 14 pitch at bat says something, he is seeing the ball and will start to come back to his usual self

  2. Throwing this out there to get others views: Is Vince Velasquez more valuable to Phillies as trade piece as starter vs moving him to pen. This assumes his continued struggles of pitching later into games.

    1. Jake Arrietta didn’t turn a corner until he was 27 with 77 MLB starts. VV has 41 career starts and is only 25.

      Carlos Carrasco is another example of a pitcher that had great stuff but needed time to come into his own.

      This is a horrible team so there is no reason to stunt VV’s growth as a possible starter because some might be growing frustrated with the result.

    2. Gator, I think he’s a trade piece. He has value as a power pitcher. Too many other good arms in the minors to hold onto him. Not many power guys but I’d rather have a guy with a 93 mph fastball who knows how to pitch. On the other hand DMAR also has a valid point.

      1. Too many good arms? Who? lol Sixto, Kilome and Medina are farrrr to young and players who haven’t even reached AA but who were you thinking of?

        1. Tirado is in the same boat big no idea where is going except somewhere fast I’d say he should be fast tracked into late inning reliever and pronto

  3. Mark Appel is done as a starter. Pivetta’s back so let’s see what he can do as a reliever.

    I believe Hoskins has to be given a chance in Philly and soon. Joseph’s hitting again but Hoskins is learning nothing in AAA. I’ll leave it there.

    1. I hope they are not switching Pivetta to relief. I still like his upside. He needs to work on command and develop a third pitch, but he can sustain velocity long into an outing. His ceiling is fairly impressive.

      1. Oops. Te “he” I was referring to was Appel and not Pivetta but I see how it could be interpreted as Pivetta.

        1. I agree that Appel should be moved to the bullpen – but what he really needs most (and I don’t say it in a mean way – I’m very serious about this) is a sports psychologist to work on his mental approach. He just self-destructs on the mound and this has been a problem with him for a long time now.

          1. I suspect you’ll see both of them moved into relief roles, Appel sooner than Pivetta. Pivetta will be an excellent pen arm 2020 and beyond.

          2. They also have Greg Miller hired, who is one of the best performance coaches in the business. I am sure he has a plate full with Mark Appel.

            1. Has Appel even upgraded his mechanics/production from the stretch, which was suppose to be one of his past flaws?
              I have not seen anything written on that in months.

            2. Romus- that’s what I’ve been saying every time someone mentions moving him to a RP role. He’s brutal from the stretch . . . I mean I guess he should be working on it one way or the other tho

    2. I don’t necessarily disagree with you about Hoskins. However, although Hoskins has not been the kind of guy who slumps I’d love to see how he deals with a mini slump in AAA. I don’t think you do anything before the draft. If the Phillies do somehow get Smith I think you really push hard to trade Joseph or Hoskins whoever brings a better return. I wouldn’t be against doing that even if they don’t draft Smith but I hate not having a fall-back plan if whomever they keep doesn’t work out.

  4. Saunders got hurt, if he goes on DL who would get the call? Quinn? I’d actually give Cozens a chance to taste the Show. He’s hot now and he might run into a few.
    Appel had been doing better but was awful yesterday. I’m not optimistic he has a future in the big leagues. Hoskins on the other hand, plus Pullin, look very good. Pacience….

    1. I’d bring up Quinn. Let him lead off, bat Cesar 2nd, move Doobie down with Franco. Inject some much needed energy into this dead lineup. Quinn has already been up and might grab the opportunity to keep himself here. He’s been doing well at the plate. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bring any other AAA bats up except Hoskins. Perkins would be a safe yet very vanilla move.

      1. 8mark…if you are going to bring up Hoskins, better to wait until Super Two date is finalized ..and that should be some time in the first week of June. Then bring Hoskins up at the mid-June mark.
        But what to do with Tommy Joseph?
        Now Hoskins as a freshman in 2012 at Sac. State.did make 37 of his 56 total starts in left field, the first time he played outfield in his career…and for the most part it was the last.
        But do we really want to see another Darin Ruf experiment?

        1. No. His agility, footwork, throwing arm and glove work grade out average and some scouts even think a tick below average. LF is not an option especially with the gluttony of OF we have and the fact that they will look to quickly get trade value out of Howie Kendrick when/if he returns to full health.

          1. However….that is the exact same thing they said about Burrell, Luzinski, Stinky, Raul, Lonnie, et al.
            If his bat plays at the MLB level….they will find a spot for him….looks like it is first base but you never know what they will do to keep an .900 OPS guy in the lineup.

          2. It would not be a long term option – it would be an option if you think you need to play both of them for a while to see who you want to keep and who you want to trade. Howie Kendrick will get his at bats here and there. The needs of a rental player are secondary to the needs of the organization as a whole. I like Howie, but I could care less if he plays if his not playing helps the team more.

        2. Have seen Hoskins on several occasions. I believe 1st base is only position he can play. Not athletic player and I am being kind here. But there is no denying the bat, approach, pitch selection are best Phillies have in minors so I do think it time even with Joseph hitting. Just hope team likes what they are seeing in Joseph.

      2. I would bring up Quinn too – although it’s a little early (I’d like to see him have another 200 plate appearances if possible), I think it’s a good time to compare and contrast Odubel with Quinn in the outfield to see which guy you’re going to keep. Cozens has had a nice run and his power at AAA (which I thought might not show so quickly) has come on strong, but he needs more time to refine his approach and keep working on things.

        As for Joseph and Hoskins. Yeah, they don’t need to bring up Hoskins right now and I get that they should play Joseph for another month or two to improve his trade value, they need to show some guts here. Joseph may have decent potential, but the current state of things suggests that Hoskins is likely to be a much better player. At the plate he is doing everything you could possibly hope. He’s basically having the kind of year that guys like Goldschmidt and Bryant had before they were called up. This reminds of where Boston was a few years ago with Iglesias and Bogaerts – once it was clear that Bogaerts was the superior prospect, the Sox wasted no time moving Iglesias so that Bogaerts development was not impeded.

        The Phillies are trying to be deliberate and careful, which, as a general rule, is refreshing as compared with the often reckless Amaro. That said, if you have tiers of prospects and you are too slow and careful, in trying to be perfect, you end up impeding the development of superior prospects, which is not good, especially when you’re trying to figure out what you need in free agency. If you trade TJ and bring up Hoskins and he kills it, well, maybe you’re set at first for the next 5 years, which affects a lot of other things (including whether you need Franco). It’s all connected.

        1. I wish i could make a statement you made with that much confidence. Hoskins is likely a better player. Based on what. Remember these two guys are almost the same age, Joseph can get better at a higher level. I just cant see why everyone is rushing to get rid of a young kid with power like Joseph. Who is a better first basemen than Hopkins will ever be. I just look at the trade for Hamels and wonder if we will get one player out of that deal that will be a good player. I Just dont understand why we gave up two quality starters for Milwaukee in villar and Santana, for pitching. But when we at the time have one of the best left handers in baseball. we are told there top prospects are off the table. amazing.

    2. For me I guess it would depend on the severity. If he’s out for awhile then I’d definitely go Quinn. If its short term maybe Perkins just to let Quinn continue what he’s doing a AAA, although I don’t think it’d be the worst thing for him to get called up for a few games either.

      They need to get Hoskins up soon, I just don’t know how you do it. I’d hate to trade Joseph, a guy who’s about to turn 26 and has 500 SLG and 815 OPS through his first 475 career PAs. With all the time he’s missed to injury in the past you have to think more development is possible.

      With how Hoskins is and has hit, he is really forcing their hand. Good problem to have I guess, just not an easy decision.

      1. Meh I hesitate to rush Hoskins up especially given the current environment of the big club.

        I am wondering in my head though if TJ could play 3B….

        Franco really has me worried that he can play himself out of this tail spin that he is in.

        1. Dmar, They tried Joseph at 3B and in LF during his lengthy rehab in Clearwater (2015, concussion in May while with Lehigh) during XST and into the GCL season. Those experiments ended quickly (and for good reason) and he finally settled in at first base.

          I remember watching him during those auditions. IMO, I would say that he convinced everybody that he couldn’t play either position satisfactorily.

    3. If Appel can’t start then he is done as a MLB prospect. He can’t pitch out of the pen unless you plan to only use him in a clean inning. It’s well documented that he is horrid from the stretch his BA against is .318 with runners on.

      I hate to judge the young man but I don’t think he wants it bad enough. You’d think after one change of scenery trade he would have picked it up.

      C’est la vie…

      1. DMAR….never know until you try him there. Right now he posses two FBs….4 and 2smr, a solid slider, a sometimes average change up and not even sure if he throws a curve.
        But out of the pen…..all he needs to do is the FB/slider variations and mix in the CU as Ryan Madson use to do, but only show it.

          1. DMAR……that is why I mention concentrate on a select few pitches….FB/slider combo….just as Lidge did.
            Madson incorporated that plus CU with bhis 96/97 velo 4smr as his two best pitches.
            Don’t always look at those K metrics as starters and try to project them as a a reliever.
            Case In point …Mariano Rivera in the minors Hi A-thru AAA rarely got to 6/7K per 9.
            And all he did was start in the minors.
            Once they moved him and then the cut FBr became his focal pitch with the breaking ball…lights out.

            1. Go ahead Romus I’m putting you in charge of Appels future 🙂

              What’s the worse that could happen.

  5. Mark Appel isnt the answer, no control. How long do we wait on these pitchers. Hopkins is really looking good. but how much better is he going to be then Joseph??

    1. rocco…..looks like Matt Klentak will need to have to make some personnel moves to re-organize the inventory, and within in a few months…..we will see then if your ‘Sheldon’ is more than string theory.

      1. Romus, I count on you for a lot, now I have to add interpreting roccom. I had no idea who he meant by Sheldon. But, I agree with the point. There is going to be some needed re-shuffling of the deck. And, I don’t think they call up an OF to replace Saunders, but another RP instead.

        1. matt13…hah….Sheldon is the fictional scientist on the Big Bang Theory…who is super intelligent but lacks some basic common sense.

  6. That is a good question,how much better will Hoskins be than Joseph? Nobody can tell for sure until you try and find out.If the scouts and coaches are any good,shouldn’t they have a good idea?
    I think that I have confidence that Hoskins wouldn’t have a prolonged slump like joseph did in April,doesn’t he hit to all fields more? Less of a pull hitter?

    1. Nope, they don’t know for sure, but if they are really worried about a try-out for that job and want to get both bats in the line-up, they can have Hoskins (who once played outfield), grab his outfield glove and play in left for a couple of months. Personally, I don’t see Joseph as being any better than a second division regular going forward and, for that reason, along with Hoskins’ potential, I probably move Joseph in the next month or two.

  7. Catch I really dont know the answer but you said he is second division player. 21 Home runs in 315 plate appearance last year.47 rbi and 308 obp. so if you give him his 550 at bats l that is a 30 plus home run guy with 90 rbis not bad numbers. I am clueless if Hopkins can do better at major league level and Joseph is 25 not much older than Hopkins. I Believe if you project his numbers right now he is on pace to hit 30 hr. with 90 rbi and 330 obp. not bad numbers.. question is, joseph is about 16 months older and a sure thing why is he the one to move?

    1. rocco…Joseph has been a plus power bat since HS…..in fact he hit 49 HR by 20-years old, and as a catcher and all the way up to the AA level in Richmond/Reading.
      So he is what you say he is.
      Klentak ought to see if an AL team would have interest in him if he wanted to move him…..Boston needs a power bat in the middle of their lineup now that Big Popi is gone.

      1. Just spit ballin’ here, but would you consider trading Joseph (or Hoskins, or anyone for that matter) within the division? Yeah, I’m looking at Atlanta with Freddie Freeman down for 2 months.

        1. I wouldn’t worry about being in the division but I would trade Joseph before Hoskins. I think they know what they have in Joseph, Hoskins has the potential to be Freddie Freeman…

            1. Solid first division regular
              Is what I think you meant to say.
              So josh bell has Allstar potential and yet Hoskins has outplayed him at every level and every offensive stat
              Minus stolen bases I’m sure.
              But yeah you are right , just regular a dude

            2. BA and many pubs do not give RHB first basemen high ceilings.
              For example, Paul Goldschmidt never sniffed BA top 100.

        2. As much as Atlanta needs TJ with Freeman down, why would Atlanta do this? Atlanta doesn’t care if they lose games, and eventually, Freeman is coming back. And when Freeman comes back, what do they do with TJ? And they have to give up somebody for TJ? This trade only happens if the we trade TJ for cash.

        3. I suggested that yesterday, Jim. The Braves have since signed James Loney. Not sure if that precludes a more substantial acquisition. Atlanta’s system is among the best. Hopefully MacKlentak explore the possibility.

        4. Not I.
          I would try to avoid all inter-divisional trades.
          Prefer to first look outside of the NL…then work down.

    2. I hear you, maybe Tommy’s a borderline first division regular, I don’t know. Listen, I like Tommy Joseph and we shouldn’t be giving him away for a bag of balls, but until the NL has a DH, you can’t keep both players long term or even medium term. But Hoskins’ minor league performance is elite – through the roof. As a AAA rookie, he’s got the best OPS in the league by about 150 points and he just keeps getting better – he has to be one of the five or so best hitters in the minors – he’s tremendous. So, if you think you need to give both a try, you put Rhys in left for a while and you put up with the lack of defense – getting them at bats may be more important than the crappy defense since the team doesn’t care long term about his fielding, it just needs to see if he can kill major league pitching too – and don’t put it past him – he might be a top notch MLB bat too.

      1. This is true. I’m keeping Rhys over TJ if push comes to shove but I don’t like the idea of Rhys in LF at all.

    1. I wonder, in that case, if the Astros had Bryant rated higher and drafted Appel for need. It’s a pretty good study in why you almost always take the BPA.

  8. Rick one thing that drives me nuts. And i believe its just me and old age. Why as a phillies fan do i care about other teams mistakes??? When i am a big market and one of the original eight teams starter in the 1870 and have two titles.? two titles. If that doesnt make you think how bad a franchise this phillies teams has been thru the years. I am amaze. Now they trust the team to a numbers guy, who has won anything but a science fair in high school. That makes me mad. sorry. Especially with a boatload of cash, And a big market to support there team. i Love to see them spend a ton of money to bring in a gm who had won and knows how to build a team. not a big bang theory guy sorry i must vent

    1. Don’t be sorry. I’m only pointing out the Astros-mistake-for-the-ages as it distracts me away from what a true dumpster fire the Phillies, and Philly sports in general have become since 2011.

      But thanks for reminding me Rocco – now I want to throw my g/d computer through my window.

      1. I love the term dumpster fire for this club LOL I thought that exact same thing when I watched yesterdays low lights.

  9. So, I know this will never happen because baseball teams just don’t have modern philosophies that permeate into other sports. That said – I’m going to propose it anyway to see what the folks here think.

    Rhys Hoskins is going to be a first tier (or better) MLB first basemen. I believe he’s got the highest floor of any player in the system. He is a prototypical 3/4 hitter but should be no worse then a 5th hole hitter if things don’t break quite right. I also think it’s time for him to be called up but understand why economically it makes sense to delay this until June.

    All that said – Tommy Joesph, while streaky certainly looks the part of a quality first basemen, maybe not with quite the upside Rhys has, but he’s also further along in his development. TJ would have been an excellent catcher, except for his predisposition to concussions, for which totally eliminates that position from consideration.

    The Phillies are one of the worst teams in baseball, and will finish the year as such, frankly – that’s ok because they still don’t have the star power in the minor league levels that would support a future championship run baring unforeseen development.

    Were I the Phillies, I would bring Rhys up to the Phillies in June, I would then make a decision on which of him or Tommy Joesph is best suited to another position; say left field. Defense be damned I would start both at those two positions for the remainder of the year. The manager and the GM should sit down with said player before the switch and say, “Look – we’re sticking you in LF because we think that between you and XXX, you’re best suited for an alternative position. Do your best but don’t worry about your defensive performance. This is all about giving the two of you the opportunity to develop at the plate so that in the future, when the team is ready to contend, you guys have the offensive skills to create value.”

    Lots of folks would say “but they’re going to be so bad at that position that their offensive upgrade wont’ make up for it.” To that I say, sure… but who cares? This team isn’t winning a championship this year anyway and it will give our young players a chance to develop their offensive games at the level that they both clearly belong.

    This team could really use some out-of-the-box thinking, and to start placing long term considerations above short term ones, would go a long way to bringing another championship to this city. It’s not important to win games in a year that’s pretty much already over. It has to be about development right now. Trust the Process

    1. Let’s be honest, this team is a road trip away from signing the second coming of Eddie Gaedel to lead off. Outside the box thinking doesn’t even scratch the surface of what heeds to be done here.

    2. I love your thought process. But the behind the scene guys (Giles, Montgomery ) would never go for it.

      I am already getting tired of Middleton and his hires MacPhail, Klentak and Mackanin. I want them to go over the signing limit for Latin talent and I want a second GCL team to give the young kids development time. Several organizations have more than two short season teams and the Phillies should be another. Poor babies don’t want to spend the chump change it would take from their Comcast billions.

      I am also sick of the Philly writers who are bought and paid for to con the fans that the great minor league system will have the Phillies competing in 2018 and 2019.

      The Phillies need to win some trades and I mean somehow really fleece another organiztion into trading difference makers for table scraps.

      1. Appreciate the positive thoughts guys.

        This has been a poorly managed organization for as far back as I can remember (80’s). We “Lucked” into our championship run from 06′ to ’11 on the backs of a great core which all came together at the right time and outperformed expectations.

        The combination of Hamels, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Werth, Victorino and Chooch was really rather amazing given that the Phillies never really committed to the international / latin markets in big numbers and didn’t land any “can’t miss” prospects in the draft (think Harper and SS from the Nats). They did make some good moves at the ML level which setup a brilliant 09′ run but at no point during the years leading up to 08′ did I think, “Wow this team has a superb team building philosophy that is going to lead to an excellent chance at winning a championship and an extended run of dominance”.

        The Phillies have never had a top 5 GM / Front Office at any point in the last 30 years (don’t know enough about the team prior to that). If there was a such thing as a Sam Hinkie of baseball, the Phillies could use someone like that in the worst way.

        In terms of going forward – I’m not sure I have a good solution. Given the state of the farm, and more specifically the lack of true star players (especially pitching), I can’t help but wonder if we’re stuck in a 5-7 year period of being horrible (which may be better then being mediocre because in theory there should be some hope that we’ll get star players due to increased dollars being spent in amateur signings.)

        1. I think it’s a kind of unfair to not give credit to the drafting/player development of the late 90s/early 2000s. Starting in ’96 when they drafted Rollins they had consecutive drafts that produced a quality player every year until 2004: Rollins, Wolf, Burrell, Myers, Utley, Floyd/Howard, Hamels, Bourn, Happ. Not every one of those guys was a star, but that’s a pretty amazing run and I don’t think you can call it all luck. They also added Abreu at the beginning of his career, developed Scott Rolen, and made savvy moves picking up Ruiz, Victorino, and Werth on the cheap.

          The problem, of course, was that the next stretch of drafts were terrible and we’re still seeing the effects of that now. And all of the better picks from the earlier part of the Amaro era were slower developing HS players (Altherr, Quinn, Pullin, Cozens), who are just now maybe (hopefully) ready to make an impact. The latin american signings in the past five years have been very encouraging, but again, because they were so young we’re still two years away from the first wave of those guys contributing in the majors.

          I think we’re just about out of the hole that we dug ourselves from the 2005-2010 years of terrible drafts. We still have two or three position player to add from the high minors, a bunch of interesting LA arms in Lakewood and Clearwater, and a considerable amount of money to spend once we decide to dive into the FA market.

      2. Let’s be clear this is Middleton’s team and FO right now. There is no Giles, No Montgomery and no Green to meddle in the process.

        That said I think John might have been swayed a bit by Gillick to select McPhail and in doing so he trusted McPhail to select Klentak.

        It’s what a good owner does…hire the best of breed provide them with resources and let them work but at some point in time you need to recognize and replace the weak links in your organization.

        It’s nice that they have all these new fancy positions in the FO. Have you been to the FO page lately? A bunch Bill James disciples clamored for it.

        At the end of the day I still believe when you are dealing with humans and not inanimate objects you need the following:

        1. A human that knows talent when he sees it. A human that can look a kid in the eye and know if said kid has the make up to succeed in MLB baseball and become a champion. It’s why John Henry dumped Cherington for Big Dave.

        2. Luck…all this blow-harding about ivy league genius analytics is just fodder for a bunch of stratomatics who want to create a game in a parallel universe of sorts. A game of trading players as stocks in fake practice accounts for fake money.

        3. The guts to own your decisions

        It’s as if Dungeons and Dragons has somehow infiltrated the sport and we have a generation of people who place more importance or think the sport is in what the GM’s are doing to acquire or trade team assets.

        Maybe I’m wrong but it’s like they want to live in this perpetual world of a trading cesar hernandez fantasy game to see who they would get to stick in the minors.

        I blame it on Hinkie not our Hinkie but the real Hinkie. He somehow made all this fashionable and acceptable. Sure the Sixers are better for it but it doesn’t feel good. Its the same as cheating as far as I’m concerned the GM equivalent of the steroid era if you will.

        And its permeating to the players I fear. Once players start accepting losing how do they just flip a switch and learn how to play/grind their way to a championship.

        LOL that’s my rant for May…

        1. Just to make a counter point here, it’s been 5 years since the phillies had a contending team.

          Do you think they’re closer to contending today then they were back then?

          Why are some teams perpetual contenders while others may only go through short phases of success only to return to the doldrums of the league?

          Can making many small +EV moves result in improved chances of winning? No where do I suggest luck isn’t a big part of the equation, but rather maximizing your odds and giving yourself the most chances at hitting a home run is really what “the process” was and frankly still is, all about.

          Does recognizing when a contending window is (08-2011), and when it’s not (now), and does that allow you to sell high on players that don’t fit that timeframe?

          Does being able to recognize which of your players are overvalued by the league allow you to recoup more assets in a trade then they’re otherwise worth?

          I guess where I’m going with this – I don’t really disagree with any of your 3 primary points, but I definitely disagree with your “Hinkie” point. What happened with the Sixers felt great. Liberating perhaps. Reason why? I’d do anything to win a championship because really, that’s the only thing that ever mattered to me.

          I watched more games over the last 4 years of the Sixers then any year since 2001 and while not every moment was enjoyable, many were and the next 5-10 years of success will be worth every moment of the troubles we went though during Sam’s tenure. His “plan” got me excited about basketball like I hadn’t been since AI was here. I believed in a logical approach to FO decision making.

          1. I think its like a of things which are polarizing Suprax. To each their own and I am mindful and respectful of those that don’t see a problem with it.

            I think for me the distinction is its one thing to be organically bad but another to purposely go there.

            It’s like finding a $100 bill in the parking lot at Giant. You pick it up, you look around no one is coming or going that you would immediately identify and say this might be theirs so you stick it in your pocket.

            You might feel good that you just found $100 at the same time a part of you feels bad knowing someone just lost a $100. Some among us will imagine the person who dropped the bill as some rich guy stepping out of his Benz who had 30 more of them in his pocket while others might experience days of guilt imagining it was a single mother struggling to support her 3 kids.

            So while Embid playing this year got me excited and getting Simmons and seeing him in the summer league got me excited I can say there was a tinge of shame in it all.

      1. That’s totally fine, make the switch, have the talk with him about the plan and if he’s continuing to show what he’s shown so far at the plate, give him the call-up and throw him in left field.

        1. Agreed. If Kyle Schwarber and Greg Luzinski can play left for contending teams, Rhys Hoskins can play left for 3 months on a non-contending team. It’s not that big of a deal.

          1. Ah Schwarber is hitting 188 and his MLB slash defies everyones perception of him. Just sayin

            Maybe he’s like a Ferrari you keep it under wraps for most of the year and when the time is right you bring it out for a few laps.

    3. I would definitely do this. Bring up Hoskins in June after the super 2 date and try both of them out in left field, just get both of them ML ABs.

  10. I’d like to see Pinto and Appel shifted into a bullpen role. I’m intrigued especially by Pinto as he could be another Ryan Madson. Plus with the way back end relievers are valued I don’t see converting a 4/5 guy into a back end guy as a bad thing. Bullpens & Offense win championships.

    Some of these guys are going to have to make the transition at some point. I think down the road Pivetta and Watson will find themselves there too but it’s too early to give up on Pivetta as a starter and Watson needs the innings/reps before he transitions.

    1. It’s funny, I saw Thompson and Pinto on TV last year in the season preview series and, when I saw them, I thought to myself – “geez, I heard these guys were great, but now that I see what they’re throwing, I think they are no better than average.”

      I’m not saying they can’t improve, but neither guy impresses me much so far.

      1. I’ve been very disappointed by Thompson. I don’t understand how a guy like him just loses his stuff. He has no future as a RHP throwing 91-92. He needs to be 92-94 with a good slider. Maybe he gets it back; Hamels threw 88-92 at one point in his career (08 and 09) and started touching 95-96 in his prime.

  11. Suffice it to say, we’ll have a lot more to be excited about come Aug 1. Moves will likely be made in the interim but the roster should be significantly overhauled by then, beginning the “second” season of ’17. I’m not suggesting better results in the W/L but we’ll earnestly start seeing a clearer direction for better or worse. I’m as reactionary as anyone but hang in there, gentlemen.

    1. Yeah I don’t know about the rest of you guys but I sure am excited to see Crawford and his .185/ .303/ .238 slash line patrolling shortstop for the Phils in September.

        1. Oooh, maybe we’ll get lucky and see Nick Williams and his 4% walk rate. That approach should really excel versus major league pitching.

  12. The Tojo thing I looked , Goldsmith came straight AA . Rizzo it took him until the 3 rd yr in pro ball too get too 500 at bats. Tojo might hit 30 hrs in his first 500 at bats neither Goldsmith or Rizzo did that. Also ToJo also has the better arm of the 2 it might make him a better for him to go to the outfield. I mean right now Tojo .ops is .822 .

  13. John: Are you excited about Daniel Brito at all? He is small, but seems to have a useful tool set. Any chance he is better than a utility player down the line?

    Keith Law: Oh I think he’s got a good chance to be a lot better than a UT. He’s so young his range of outcomes is high but he has star potential.

    Jason: Would Sixto Sanchez be a top 100 prospect for you if the rankings were redone?

    Keith Law: No.

    Nick: Mark Appel had one of the worst innings I’ve ever seen today. Struggled all year. Org guy or is there still hope for some value?

    Keith Law: Stuff is still good, results are atrocious. Can’t pitch from the stretch at all. I think you have to move him to the bullpen to try to hit reset, but guys in the bullpen pitch with runners on base too. Hate to give up on a healthy arm with stuff, but at some point he has to show he can miss more bats and find a way to pitch with men on.

          1. Yeah he’s always loved Crawford & Hoskins and he raved about Moniak in an interview I read with him.

            I don’t get why people say he’s biased or what not, he has no reason to dislike the Phillies. He’s just giving his honest assessment. Doesn’t make him right.

        1. KLaw just sees a young arm without much in the way of secondary pitches. Take it for what it is – reasonable minds can differ on Sixto, but I think he’s a keeper.

  14. Wow,

    Nothing like a prolonged streak of bad play by the big club to bring out the long knives for the organizational brass. Let me be the down-voted voice of reason in this discussion.

    First, before the 2017 season started, only the move rose-colored fans expected this team to compete for anything more than the first overall draft pick in 2018. The goal in 2017 was to play young guys at the ML level to see who can play and who can’t. It was also to start deciding who in the upper levels of the minors are keepers. Have the Phillies done that through the first 1/3 of the season?

    For the most part, yes they have with the exception of playing Kendrick over Altherr which was forced by injury. Joseph and Stassi have played 1b exclusively, Hernandez at 2b, Galvis at 3rd, Franco at 3b, and Rupp and Knapp catching. All of those players are players that need to be evaluated to see if they stay or go.

    In the OF, it’s been Altherr, Herrera, and Saunders. Of those, Saunders is the only guy who’s not a potential long-term piece of the puzzle.

    Starting pitching of Eflin, Eickhoff, Velasquez, Nola, and Pivetta are all guys being evaluated as future pieces. Hellickson is the only non-prospect on that list. In the pen, Guys like Ramos, Neris, Leiter, and even Rodriguez and Garcia are evaluation prospects.

    In the minors, no one believed that the Phillies had any can’t miss, superstar prospects. They have a number of solid future ML players and a lot of lower minor’s lottery tickets. Crawford has had a disappointing start to the season but for the most part, their prospects are playing pretty well.

    A successful remainder of 2017 will be determined by how the minor leaguers progress and how the guys being evaluated at the major league level play. Philly fans are fickle in that they called for the team to play the young guys and now that they are, they are complaining that they are not playing well.

    That’s kind of what happens when you develop at the big league level, some players succeed (Hernandez, Altherr) and some players do not. They’ve learned that the bull pen pieces are not good, Rupp and Joseph are average players at best, and the rotational pieces have some ability but need more development.

    1. I think the Phillies had a chance to make a run at 80 wins. You figure that we couldn’t be that bad on offense for another year. We had the makings of a decent bullpen. The young guys in the rotation should have improved.

      The reality:

      On offense, we improved. Stairs has made a huge difference. We’re scoring more runs, plain and simple. Sure, Odubel has regressed and Freddy is still Freddy, but Altherr has made a huge leap. We have multiple guys with better than 100 OPS+.

      The rotation has been a downer. Hellboy started off hot and then got hit around. Nola got hurt. Eickhoff is fighting his mechanics. VV has gotten slightly better. Eflin just got mashed.

      The bullpen has been an out and out disaster. Everybody has had poor outings, some way more than others. I think the bullpen has cost us 5 wins easy.

      To recap, we should not be 10 wins under .500. Heck, our pythagorean WL is 4 games under .500.

      1. I’m very much concerned about the ability of the arms in AA + to miss bats. At the major league level it seems to a man, every member of our rotation struggles with either:

        1) getting ahead of guys (Nola when he’s bad)
        2) putting guys away (Eflin, Eickhoff, Velasquez)

        Is this an organization philosophy of preaching “pitching to contact and limiting walks?” The number of 0-2 home runs this team gives up is unfathomable. It just shouldn’t be happening.

        I don’t expect these guys, other than Velasquez to go out there and just dominate a lineup on a given night with 10+ ks over 7 ip; they just don’t have that kind of stuff, but if they’re ahead in the count they should be putting guys away or inducing weak contact.

        You see it with guys when they come up too: Thompson & Pivetta were so inconsistent this year.

        Is this McClure? Is it the way Rupp calls a game? Is it because these guys aren’t being taught properly in the minor leagues?

      2. You skipped over that not only has Franco not improved but he’s regressed on what was an all around pretty poor year from him in 2016.

  15. 3Up, I don’t diasagree with you, and I am willing to give Middleton some time. But, I have been underwhelmed by Klentak. It is a serious problem that there are no blue chip prospects. An organization needs them. They cannot go buy a FA at every position, and this year was supposed to show who, prospect wise, can be counted on going forward. So, we have a maybe on Altherr, a lot of debate on Cesar, some 4-5 SPs that we can pray may be a 3, and a 1B at AAA putting up blue chip numbers. So far, the year has been a failure. Yes, a lot of time is left, but I certainly understand the negative feeling that we have watching what is going on.

    1. Matt, I agree on the blue chippers but I also think they’ve been a little unlucky in the draft in that there haven’t been any can’t miss star players available when they’ve have top picks.

      I do think the jury is still out on Klentak’s ability to make savvy trades or find diamonds through the draft..

      1. Klentak was hired less than 2 yrs ago. I think that is not enough time to make a judgment on him. I do think Johnny Almaraz and Sal Agostinelli are outstanding talent evaluators. Those two guys may be the biggest thing Klentak has in his favor.

          1. I heard on wip today that Mc Phail is 255 games under 500 as running clubs. They cant understand why he was the man chosen to run this team.

            1. rocco…I know this is of little consolation,
              but before the New England Patriots hired Bill Belichick….he was 36-44…..450 winning percentage with Cleveland. so you have to look at all the angles.

    2. I do believe the Phillies will need to do this the expensive way and over-pay in FA at some point because we are not seeing signs of blue chips from earlier drafts. Now lets keep in mind the Phillies have not drafted a blue chip player since 2002 (Cole Hamels). That’s 15 years ago. Its way way early in process but I have listened to enough people that there are major concerns about any of recent draft picks (Crawford, Nola, Randolph & Moniak) projecting as blue chip players. If their drafts don’t reveal any star players they will have to pay for it. Its not ideal but there is way to make this work. At very least minors should provide deep roster.

  16. Anybody concerned about out 1-1 draft pick from last year? Where is any semblance of power? A walk/K ratio of 1/4 and CS 3/4 times so far. Should we not being seeing a little more from MM?

    1. He’s -2.4 years younger than the average age of the Sally…I’m not worried.

      Blake Rutherford is also in the Sally -1.4 basically the same numbers as MM

      1. Nor concerned about Moniak, but Randolph looks like a bad pick with the 1-10 draft pick from 2015 (can’t blame Klentak for that, as he wasn’t with the Phillies). Yes, Randolph is young, and he’s gotten unlucky this year . . . but young and not particularly good is not a winning combination for an early draft pick. For a corner outfielder, everything about his performance in 2016 and 2017 is underwhelming — well, his BB rate is good. Everything else is underwhelming over this year and last year, combined:

        439 PAs, .238 BA, 6 HR, 23% K rate, 10% BB rate, .304 BABIP

        Note: a .300 BABIP is about average. Yes, he’s gotten unlucky this year, but he got lucky last year, and overall over 2016 and 2017 combined, he’s not been particularly lucky or unlucky. And not very good.

        1. You can’t blame Klentak, but it was on Almaraz’s watch – he was all over that pick. But that’s the nature of the beast – he was also in on Kingery so we have to give Almaraz some time and draft history to judge him as well.

          1. I don’t like the word blame really. I just want a GM to be accountable and I always want to be fair and evaluate on the totality of their acquisitions.

            It also would be nice in this day and age of information if GM’s were more transparent. If they want the paying fan to “trust the process” then they have to let us know what the process is and who is calling the shots.

            1. DMAR…who is calling the shots….among the triumvirate I think you know who calls it when it comes to money, who when it comes to trade approvals and who is when it comes to drafting and signing international players..

            2. Not sure Romus but I’m willing to bet there a fewer voices in the room these days sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong.

              I imagine its much more organized and linear under Middleton than it was under Monty.

              Much to your dismay however I don’t think Sal and Benny share your penchant for big splash International signs. I think they prefer the quantity approach however I don’t think money would get in the way now if they really were hot for a kid.

            3. Well when it comes to signing international kids, they did establish a record for J2-2016 with approx. 60 signees….which probably filled out their new academy in the DR just fine.
              I am anxious to see how these kids come out next month when the Phillies DSL1 and 2 teams start play.

        2. I think he probably should’ve repeated Lakewood. I think the Clearwater promotion was aggressive and that has a lot to do with the struggles we’re seeing this year.

    2. Pops, I am a little concerned. Let me start by saying I wanted Moniak at 1.1 based on the scouting reports and YouTube video. So I am not being a Monday morning QB I have watched him live four times and plan on going to many more games.

      Positives:
      (1) Very young and lots of time to develop.
      (2) Very quick bat. This is the thing I like about him the most.
      (3) Can run (not a blazer but plus speed) and can field. I assume he has a plus arm but haven’t been able to see him cut one loose yet.
      (4) A gym rat type that loves to play and will get the most from his ability.

      Negatives:
      (1) No power. Wasn’t drafted as a power guy but he is a singles hitter with an occasional drive down the line. I wouldn’t even say he has warning track power right now.
      (2) As you stated, he strikes out way too much for a singles hitter.
      (3) Not very good against lefties and has a very hard time with the curve. I have seen him flail away at several curves.

      So I can’t say I am unhappy. Just that there needs to be a good bit more in the future to justify 1.1. Not sure at this point who else I would have drafted at 1.1.The jury is out. Sometimes what you see from a kid in the beginning of his career is who he is and sometimes they vastly improve.

    3. Not really. I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to hit for power. That’ll come with age if he ever does develop it.

      It’s not like anyone else they could’ve selected there is setting the minor leagues on fire. Kyle Lewis tore his ACL, AJ Puk can’t get deep into games, Groome isn’t pitching right now, etc.

      1. No offense to MM, who is a very nice prospect who I think can and will develop, but if he doesn’t hit for any power, unless he’s hitting .320 with a .400+ OBP and plus plus fielding, he will be a disappointment for the 1/1 pick.

        1. I still see a Christian Yelich type path for MM. Yelich went 4-9-7 then 21 HR’s.

          Best case scenario of course…

            1. Yeah, I meant hit for power this year, sorry. I’d expect him to settle at 15-20 when he fully matures as a hitter.

    4. I recently heard a report that basically says fans need to reduce their expectations for Moniak. It was also a weak draft. That needs to be considered.

    5. Pop see the thumbs down. They think the phillies do no wrong. Five prospect for hamels we are down to one who might help. But no one things that is bad. MM Will prove not to be the best player out of that draft. might be a decent player but you need a stud with first pick. if you care about winning.

  17. Right now my top 10 Phuture Phillies power rankings: (us guys love lists!)

    1 Rhys Hoskins
    2 Jorge Alfaro
    3 Mickey Moniak
    4 Scott Kingery
    5 Sixto Sanchez
    6 Dylan Cozens
    7 Andrew Pullin
    8 Adonis Medina
    9 Nick Fanti
    10 Jhailyn Ortiz (Jim P says he’s been looking good, that’s good enough for me especially when I ran out of prospects)

  18. Anyone see this?Columbia Fireflies outfielder Tim Tebow, seen here in an April 6. game, has a surprising run-in with a New Jersey fan after hitting him in the crotch with an errant throw. Maybe he can pitch for us

  19. Is this guy clueless or is it just me? Isn’t his report that he is a polished hitter with poor athleticism?

    Rich (NJ): Did the Phillies overreach for Cornelius Randolph as a # 1 pick – he is really struggling thus far in HiA; and thanks for answering my questions !!

    Kyle Glaser: HS athleticism without hitting polish or skill. It’s a dangerous mix teams fall for way to often. Randolph is just the latest in a long line (Anthony Hewitt, anyone?). He checks all the boxes of a busted first rounder. If he rebounds great, but don’t expect anything until he does

    Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/prospect-hot-sheet-chat-may-19a/#UHKb2tt6uaC6HKqG.99

    1. He may end up being a bust but this is a stupid comment. He was not an athleticism without ability bust like Hewitt. Just the opposite. He was known as the best polished HS hitter in the draft. The criticism on him at the time was the LACK of athleticism. This guy literally has no idea what he is talking about.

    2. Glaser has it backwards on Randolph pre-draft. But I think he just wanted to be first to start calling him a bust. No doubt Randolph needs to make adjustments but he is still young.

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