Box Score Recap – 5/4/2017

In a new twist, all runs scored by opponents last night were surrendered by the starters.

Lehigh Valley rallied to win.

Reading’s rally fell short.

Clearwater also came up short trying to come from behind.

Lakewood won a game called due to rain after seven innings.

Lehigh Valley (14-12) beat Scranton, 5-3.  Ben Lively (3-1, 2.79) was touched for all three runs in five innings.  He gave up seven hits and a walk and struck out five.  Pedro Venditte (1-0, 0.00), Michael Mariot (5.59), and Pedro Beato (2.84, 5 saves) held the Yankees’ affiliate scoreless and picked up a win, hold, and save respectively.

Roman Quinn, J.P. Crawford, and Dylan Cozens each had a hit among the IronPigs 7-hit attack.  Crawford also drew two walks.  Logan Moore hit his second HR.  Crawford, Cozens, Hoskins, Williams, and Moore each drove in a run.  Quinn stole his 6th base.

  • #1 Crawford (.153): 1-2 with 2 runs scored, RBI, 2 BB, K
  • #3 Alfaro (.318): 0-4 with a run scored, K
  • #4 Williams (.267): 1-4 with a RBi, 2 K
  • #6 Quinn (.250): 1-4 with a run scored, 2 K
  • #9 Cozens (.167): 1-3 with an RBI, BB, K
  • #12 Pivetta (2-0, 0.69): called up to Philadelphia
  • #13 Hoskins (.337): 1-2 with a double, RBI, BB
  • #17 Pinto (2-2, 3.14): DNP
  • #20 Appel (1-2, 7.48): DNP
  • #25 Lively (3-1, 2.79): 5.0, 7 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 5 K, HBP
  • #30 Valentin (.240): 0-2 with a BB

Reading (13-10) lost to Portland, 5-4.  Tyler Viza (1-3, 6.85) gave up all 5 runs in 4.2 innings on 7 hits and 2 BB.  He struck out five.  Mario Hollands (2.57), Joe DeNato (1.69), and Miguel Nunez (1.93) held the Sea Dogs to one hit the rest of the way, but the Phils fell short.

Scott Kingery and Osmel Aguila had 2 hits each.  Andrew Pullin, Mitch Walding, Aaron Brown, and Malquin Canelo each had an RBI.  Aguila and Walding each drew 2 walks.  Catcher Chace Numata picked a runner off third base.

  • #11 Kingery (.291): 2-5 with a double, K
  • #18: El. Garcia: Restricted List,  80-Game suspension
  • #22 Anderson (2-0, 6.97): DNP
  • #23: Arano: 7-Day DL
  • #24 Tocci (.318): 0-3 with a run scored, BB
  • #28 Canelo (.268): 2-4 with a run scored, RBI, K
  • Pullin (.313): 1-5 with an RBI
  • Tromp (.268): DNP

Clearwater (18-10) lost to Jupiter, 3-2.  Cole Irvin (3-2, 1.69) gave up all 3 runs on 8 hits in six innings.  He walked none and struck out four.  Edgar Garcia (4.22) struck out 3 in two innings.  Jake Waguespack (3.27) pitched a one-hit ninth.

Drew Stankiewicz (.314) and Emmanuel Marrero (.276) had 2 hit games.  Jan Hernandez hit his 6th HR.  Deivi Grullon had the other RBI.  Cornelius Randolph picked up an outfield assist.

  • # 5 Kilome (2-1, 2.51): DNP
  • #10 Randolph (.184): 0-4 with a BB, K
  • #27 Ed. Garcia (0-0, 4.22): 2.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 3 K
  • #29 Pujols (.167): 1-4

Lakewood (16-12) beat Charleston, 3-2 in a rain-shortened game.  Ranger Suarez (2-0, 0.93) pitched 6.2 innings, gave up both runs (only one earned) on 9 hits.  He walked none and struck out seven.  Trevor Bettencourt (1.29) earned his first save retiring the final out.

The BlueClaws only managed 4 hits.  Edgar Cabral had 2 hits, a double, and RBI.  Darick Hall (.276) hit his second HR since returning from the DL.  Cord Sandberg (.289) also had a hit.

Suarez picked two runners off first base.

  • #2 Moniak (.280): 0-3 with a K
  • #7 Sanchez (0-2, 2.79): DNP
  • #16 Medina (0-2, 1.71): DNP
  • #19 Brito (.324): 0-3 with a K
  • #26 Romero (1-1, 2.92): DNP

Williamsport (0-0) – first game on Monday, June 19th at State College.

  • #8 Gowdy
  • #15 Stobbe
  • #21 Ortiz

GCL Phillies (0-0) – first game on Monday, June 26th v. Yankees West.

DSL Phillies (0-0) – first game on Saturday, June 3rd.

DSL Phillies2 (0-0) – first game on Saturday, June 3rd.

Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.


First, the XST schedule has been modified.

  • The start times for all week day games against the Pirates, Braves, and Tigers have been moved up to noon whether at home or on the road.
  • Week day games against the Yankees and Blue Jays remain at 1:00 PM.
  • Wednesday games remain Camp Days and intrasquad games start at noon.
  • Sundays are off days.
  • Saturday’s games against the Blue Jays start at 10:00 AM whether at the Complex or in Dunedin.

I have a few notes from Tuesday’s, 7-inning  game against the Pirates.

Andrew Brown pitched the first two innings.  He gave up 2 cheap hits, a bloop single and an infield single.  The Pirates tried a double steal, Nerluis Martinez took a pitch out and threw high to second, took the return throw, and tagged out the runner at the plate.

Brown throws a FB, CH, CB.  He displayed a high 80’s FB (87-89 MPH).  He struck out two, got two ground outs to second, and bounded off the mound to catch a popped up bunt.

Tyler Hallead pitched the middle three innings.  He gave up four runs in the fourth inning, but threw 1-2-3 innings in the third and fifth.  Hallead struck out 5 batters.  He throws a FB, SL, and CH.  His FB was 90-92 MPH.

Jhon Nunez pitched the final two innings and gave up five runs in the seventh.  The inning started poorly when a lead off single was picked off but ended up stealing second.  That was followed by a fielding error and the flood gates opened.

The Phillies scored two runs in three different innings and had leads of 4-0- and 6-4.

  • Jhailyn Ortiz doubled and scored on Gregori Rivero’s 2-run double
  • Enmannuel Garcia hit a solo HR, Raul Rivas tripled and scored on Cole Stobbe’s fielder’s choice.
  • Stobbe hit an RBI double and Rivero followed with an RBI single

Josh Stephen wasn’t in the line up.

  • Stobbe went 1-3 with a double, 2 RBI, K
  • Ortiz went 1-3 with a double
  • Pickett went 0-3 with 2 K
  • Rivero went 2-3 with a double and 3 RBI

Transactions (and paper moves)

  • 5/4 – RHP Matt Hockenberry assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/3 – Clearwater Threshers placed LHP Tyler Gilbert on the 7-day disabled list.
  • 5/2 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/2 – Osmel Aguila assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/2 – Reading Fightin Phils placed 3B Harold Martinez on the 7-day disabled list. Lower back strain.
  • 5/2 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/2 – Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 5/2 – Harold Arauz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/2 – RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.




88 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 5/4/2017

  1. Pat Venditte has been pretty good at LHV. In 13 IP, he’s given up 1 hit. One lousy hit. He has 17 Ks but also 9 BBs. Is he ready to get back to the Major Leagues or just a junkballer AAAA type? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Phormer Phuture Phillies Josh Tobias is in AA with Portland. He started the season in A+ and tore that place up. Good luck Josh.

    Where’s Sandusky? I need him to tell me that all is well with Walding. He’s hitting a Cadet Wrestler’s weight (.157) but he has 16 BBs in 21 games (.318 OBP). Six of his 11 hits are for extra bases with 3 HRs. He has 27 Ks. He’s all over the place.

  2. Do the Phillies brass begin to move Scotty Jetpax to the OF this off season since 2b is already locked down? Or can Cesar play LF since reports on Kingery’s defense at 2b are glowing?

    1. Kingery doesn’t have the offense (power) to play the OF, his value is at 2b. IF both he and Hernandez continue to produce at high levels, one of them will be traded either outright (Hernandez) or as part of a bigger deal (Kingery & other prospects for a ML talent)

      1. We’re really talking about CF vs. 2B though, and there’s not much difference in power at those two positions. Can’t find the position averages, but:

        -there are 2 CF slugging over .500 and 15 slugging over.400.
        -there are 7 2B slugging over .500 and 15 slugging over .400.

        1. Why would they move him to CF when they already have Odubel in the majors, Quinn and Moniak in the system..

          1. I’m not saying they should move him, I just don’t believe his lack of power precludes him from playing CF.

            1. power is not an important tool in playing CF – but defense, route running and fielding does. The top CF in the team right now are Doobie-Quinn-MickeyMo — they are not known for power and Kingery is probably at par with the 3 when it comes to power tool. So i think your statement doesn’t hold a lot of water.

              i rather keep Kingery in 2B because if everything turns out as expected – he has the profile to be one of the top 2B in the bigs.

            2. He played CF at Zona for 2 yrs and was an all region SS in high school. Who said he has !ess powder then Quinn or more . The one that will move Obbie is Micky Mo.

            3. Yet we have one of the top 2B in the league playing on the team right now . . .

    2. @8mark – the Phils have 12-18 months to evaluate further and i think they will just let it play out. There’s already enough OF depth with good options that it might be counterproductive to Kingery’s growth. I think a decision will be made at some point next year but it will not surprise me if the decision happens sooner than later.

      i can see the Phils leaning to the player with better skill set and higher upside since they have the financial capability to mitigate the issue (via FA signing) if this decision turned out to be a disaster.

      1. I actually agree with both Kuko and Otero. CF is all about speed and getting on base even more so than 2b although the latter HAS recently become more of a pop position. In my mind which player has greater value at each?

        1. CF is all about playing good defense and covering ground. That’s why teams are willing to tolerate less offensive production at that position. Same for SS and C.

          2b used to be the same but teams have started to look at that position as more of an offensive spot..

          1. i agree with this. basically the center of the field positions like C, 2B, SS and CF should have very good defensive instincts rather that the offensive one as these 4 positions can save a lot of runs – that’s why they are called “premium positions”.

            this is the reason why i’m not concerned about JPCs offense because everything else looks plus and this is why i’m down with someone like Cesar because his defensive instincts are still questionable.

            1. have you seen him play over the past year? He’s defense is plus . . . maybe you meant his base running?

              Cesar ranks among all MLB 2B

              Runs – 1st
              Hits – Tied 1st
              2B – 7th
              3B – 2nd
              HR – 2nd
              Avg – 2nd
              OBP – 3rd
              Slug – 4th
              OPS – 3rd

              All that while playing plus defense at 2B and having speed. Yup 2B of the future is already in Philly.

            2. @Eric D – i already find it impossible to argue against Cesar supporter. the fact that my criticism is supported by historical data and observations by national outlets (i.e. Eric L) – i think i stand in a steady ground.

              as far as his defense – you don’t need to doubt my fanhood. not because i criticize a Phillies doesn’t mean i don’t follow them. i burn so much money to support and follow the Phils as most of us here. Articles about Cesar Hernandez are all over the internet. Here’s some that I can share.



              and can continue but i assume you are literate enough to do a google search. 18 good months from Cesar doesn’t simply negate the 8 1/2 years of Cesar. Again this is Macro (me) vs Micro (you and Catch) perspective.

            3. in addition, i never bailed out on our Phils even when they’re bad so I watched a lot of Cesar since he was called up by the Phils — so that’s like 4 years of watching Cesar. I’ve followed all types of Cesar Hernandez for the last 10 years and not just the last 12 months.

  3. It’s good to see Hall start to resemble the guy many of us saw in spring training. There’s something there. And it’s interesting to see Jan Hernandez finally show some of his potential. He was a high pick after all. Suarez and Irvin, two slow tossing lefties, just keep getting the job done. Irvin finally showed he’s human and still kept them in the game while Ranger continues to put up zeroes

    1. Hall is a very good prospect – he seems to hit for a lot of power and shows good plate discipline. It’s also helpful that this is his age 21 season, which puts him ahead of the curve.

      I had forgotten about Hernandez since he’s generally been a disappointment since he was drafted. But I was surprised to find that he is perfectly age appropriate for Clearwater – he’s 22. If he continues to hit he could re-enter our radar, just as Aaron Atlherr did after not doing so well for a year or two in the minors. Thanks for the heads up – I’ll keep my eye on him.

      1. I always see age appropriate as compared to the rest of the league , but I’m curious to know how many of the “age appropriate players” actually go on and make the majors , as opposed to young guys in the league

    2. equally impressive is Deivi Grullon – plus defensive catcher, 1 year younger who is already off to a good start.

      to the lesser extent, Sandberg is also playing well (though he should be over A ball) and Tromp is having a decent start in REA.

      1. Except Grullon has 83 appearances and hasn’t drawn a walk yet. It may not be a huge thing now, but when he gets to higher levels he will need to show better plate discipline. Tromp is kind of interesting – he has some good tools.

        1. Grullon’s catching profile weights some value. scouts believes that Grullon’s defensive ability alone puts his floor as as back up catcher in the bigs. And don’t give me that “curve out stat” like the 83 appearances. At >1000 AB – Grullon is at par with Tromp when it comes to Ave and OBP and his SLG is creeping up by 10-20 basis points for the last 3 years and he will be 21 yo for the rest of the season.

          Grullon also has some interesting tools too as a catcher so i’m more interested in Grullon than a guy like Tromp.

        2. Grullon for his career, thru his age21 season, so far is a 6% BB guy.
          Which is not great, but traditionally somewhat expected of Latin players.
          This year could be an anomaly up to this point.
          On the other hand, if you run those numbers against Carlos Ruiz, who was a 7% guy at the end of his minor league days, age26, it isn’t all that of a large difference.
          Carlos however, in his age 21/22 seasons had a fairly low BB%….4/5%
          Compounding his lack of walks this season, is also the fact his K% has increased 4% over his career-average to 25% so far on this sss.
          I like to think that maybe this season could be an outlier for Grullon when it comes to some of those peripherals.

          1. what makes prospects like Alfaro, Sanchez and others “special” is because they have “offensive” tools for a importantly “defensive” position.

            generally, corner positions like 1B-3B-LF-RF demands less defensive expectations that’s why most of these guys are offensive force. same goes with the center positions like C-2B-SS-CF who really demands defensive prowess. premiums players/prospects are players that have loud tools and that can do both ways (defense and offense). This is why I’m high on Kingery and Brito because I can see that they can be two-way players.

            i understand the offensive questions based on metrics for a prospect like Grullon who is not known to be an offensive C anyway. if Grullon has the offensive peripherals of an offensive catcher someone like Alfaro — Grullon will be Top 20 MLB prospect at age 21.

    3. Im wondering just how “slow tossing” Ranger is this year. Hes striking guys out like crazy.

  4. Catch I Never thought Aaron Altheer could be this good. even though its a small sample. I hope he continues would really help in the building of this team.

    1. I know, it’s pretty amazing – nothing about his minor league career suggested he could be anywhere close to this good. He is one of the most graceful baseball players you could ever hope to watch – everything he does on a baseball field, including run and hit and throw, is just textbook beautiful. As I said earlier this year, he because he has all of the physical tools as well as impressive plate discipline, all he needs to thrive is a solid hit tool (if he hit .265-.280 that would be plenty – anything else is gravy).

      1. In the strange coincidence category, AA has been called a “poor man’s Jayson Worth” and they both had serious wrist injuries. This injury allowed the Phil’s to acquire JW from Dodgers for a song, wouldn’t it be funny if AA became a player – although he has quite a ways to go on working pitchers like JW did

      2. Given the small sample size, it is far too early to conclude that he is anything close to this good (although I really hope he is). His BABIP is an unmaintainable .436 – and he has a total of 39 AB’s that enter into that calculation. If he had been at, say, .350 BABIP, which is about as high as he would be able to sustain even in a very good year, his BA would be about.280. Let’s see where he is at the All-Star break (Although if he keeps at this level, at the All-Star break he will be an All-Star.)

    2. rocco….8 thumbs up….wow….that is a record for you!
      See there, just a little positive vibes and look what it has done for you.
      it is a beautiful thing.

  5. Like to see the Phillies force-feed, push and challenge Jan Hernandez.
    Move him up to Reading at the mid-point promo time at the latter part of June..

    1. No reason to force a guy who’s having success for the first time and isn’t too old for his level. Maybe late in the season, if he’s still doing well, give him a little exposure to AA pitching for next year.

  6. Every time I start to think positive thoughts about Cesar, his lack of baseball instincts bothers me. He’s the fastest guy on the team by far and somehow he didn’t score from third on a wild pitch yesterday. A good player would have scored. Little things like that cost games. I’m back on the “trade Cesar at his high point” list and I want to go with Kingery who is a baseball instinct guy.

    1. “fastest player on the team by far”? Not sure he’d beat Altherr in a race from home plate to 3b. I saw Altherr round those bases like a whisp of smoke. Nonetheless I’m on board with your point.

      1. “Ill take his subpar baserunning. Hes the best player on the team this year.”

        i don’t if i will be happy or sad in this statement. if the best player of your team is a light hitting 2B with a subpar base running – that has a profile of an awful offensive team.

          1. @romus – when it comes to power, i rather use ISO rather than OPS. Cesar has a 10-year career ISO = 0.09 for about 3,700 AB. Figure that.

            likewise, people who use stats to support a conclusion doesn’t rely on SSS (we’ve thrown these SSS in this site for a lot of times). You can smooth the sample size for few years but it will still give you a conclusion that Cesar is not hitting for power.

            Trend analysis is another technique that stat guys like. Using this technique will give you the same conclusion, with possible outliers that needs to be analyzed further.

            1. KuKo…..can understand the SSS, but have to remember this is only his second season playing as a full-timer, and he has ticked upwards at every step of the way.
              As for his ISO this season….he currently ranks as the fourth best in the NL behind Murphy Harrison and Wong at .181..and 8th in the majors.
              But I guess picking and choosing a specific metric can be use to support any conclusion as you indicated above…even in a SSS fish-bowl..

            2. While I’m closer to your side of the argument in regards to trading Hernandez while his value has peaked, I have to take exception with the use of a player’s entire minor league career as a benchmark for evaluation.

              Doing so rewards a player for crushing low minor league pitching as a college draftee vs. younger competition or in the case of Hernandez, penalizes him for signing as a 17 year old who has obviously been growing into his body and getting stronger. It bakes in the assumption that players cannot get stronger, change their swing, etc. as they progress through the system.

              I agree that he is not a power hitter based on the 4 homeruns he’s hit so far in 2017. He is a .280-.300 contact hitter who has shown the ability to get on base. He’s had over 1400 major league at-bats which gives a good indication of what he is as a player so there in no reason to use his numbers as a 17-20 year old.

            3. @romus – i do hope that Cesar can maintain and improve his ISO (which will drive his trade value even further!!! – you know me, i already settled with Kingery)!!

              you’re the Jason Stark of this site with all this info and stats that you’re sharing with us.

            4. @3up – Cesar’s career minor league stats and early MLB career stats are pretty consistent which is also consistent with his physical skill set – even eye test proves that. That’s almost 70% of consistent data – you cannot simply disregard that. Even if you disregard the early VSL days and consider them outliers – Cesar pre-July 2016 is an consistent as you can see.

              if you’re a data analytics person, you like consistent data and trends because it eliminate the complications of various outliers and it provides an assumption of regularity. most likely than not, data that are less volatile provides better results.

            1. @romus – i’m the 1st to thumbs up because i agree with this 100%. we have a discussion before and you ask me who is the potential trade partner and i answered none – and that’s the issue. you also asked me what return is good enough and i said if LAD offered Jose de Leon for Cesar – i’ll take that 100%.

              also, the teams are still bullish on Cesar (thus offer less return) despite of the current stats because the scouts and team analytics guys look at the totality (which means 10 year stats and actual skill set) of Cesar rather than focusing on the 2-3 year stats that some of us suggested.

              Cesar might be the 2nd best 2B right now and playing like a Top 30 guy — the teams don’t value him that much.

            2. if the Phils can get Quintana for Cesar and Lively – i’ll take that. But i don’t think the White Sox will despite having a stiff in Saladino as their 2B because they are looking at Cesar as the pre-July 2016 Cesar and not the post-July 2016 that a lot of us here believes.

            3. i know that Moncada is the future 2B but I can see him moved to 3B if White Sox really believe in Cesar – unfortunately they don’t

            4. Also, Chisox looking at Moncada as their future second baseman, so might as well cross them off the list.

            5. I think though they will try him at 2nd before doing a third base switch.

            6. Plus it’s doubtful the Chisox are contending. In any case, they’d be a reach on a deal for Cesar.

        1. Now if 2nd base is the most important defense position then yes Ceaser the best person on the team. I’m going with Freddy ,Franco who leads in the top 5 in RBIs and plays a good 3rd.Obbie isn’t in his zone yet but his d been great.

  7. Murray, I have been in your camp, but as someone said above, there is another 12-18 months to see how things develop. It is hard for me not to root for a guy who has made as much improvement over the past year as Cesar has, but I watch him and see a glaring lack of baseball instincts that Kingery seems to possess.

    1. Lacking baseball instincts isn’t just a shortcoming that can be outweighed by excelling in other areas. IT IS A WEAKNESS THAT THE OPPOSITION CAN AND WILL EXPLOIT. It costs a team opportunities to score runs in crucial points of a game. Cesar has talent. He has also developed those skills but he’d better become a student of the game and not just his own mechanics or his career will eventually become that of another journeyman infielder. Same goes for a couple other position players on the major league roster.

      1. Ooohhh, 5 thumbs down?

        “Definitely an anti-social type” and
        “again with the negative waves, Moriarty”

        1. if you capitalized CESAR’s name rather than your 2nd sentence, your thumbs down becomes thumbs up!

            1. you’re not the only one suffering from unpopular votes. i’m probably racking thumbs down faster than you do.

    2. i’m probably one of the most vocal “trade Cesar while value is high” advocate — wearing my GM hat, i make decisions not based on names but based on merits. i don’t asses it by comparing Cesar vs Kingery vs FA vs Others – but rather comparing Option A vs Option B vs Option C and so on.

      Decisions are made based on risk and rewards and availability of mitigating (or exit) strategy in case the decision made proves to be a disaster (since nobody is perfect). Again if I’m wearing the GM hat, i will asses it based on the option who check the most boxes. And since the Phils has the financial capability to augment or address the ramification of their decision — i will rather have them aim higher with player that has better skill set and upside.

    1. oh just saw him pitch he struck out 2 but only threw 90 mph on the fastball

  8. saw an article in philly daily news that surprised me. Said with his slump Crawford doing things he has never done before, one of which is study tape. Blew me away. Know guys like Utley were obsessive watching video to keep their swings good. Article says he discovered he had been dropping his hands. Now has raised them and has average over .150. Hopefully it continues.

    1. surprising if true he just started watching video especially considering his baseball blood lines.

    2. Not that surprising. He’s always been the best player and had success as he moved up through the system so he thought he had no need. The value of having him struggle is that if has forced him outside of his comfort zone.

      Coaches can talk about stuff all the time but its the player who has to have the lightbulb come on..

  9. Kurdth – So i’m assuming you have watched a ton of Kingery’s games, correct? How you can tell someone has baseball instincts thru box scores in beyond me. You also have arguably one of the best 2B on your team and you STILL want to move him for an unproven 2B at AA who isn’t exactly tearing it up in a place known for offense (not saying he’s having a bad year, he’s having a good/solid one but by no means is he having a year like say Hoskins or Alfaro). The future at 2B is already in Philly, move on already. (CH ranks in the top 3 among 2B in just about all categories).

    Also give me the examples of CH showing you he has no baseball instincts. Not scoring from 3rd doesn’t mean anything to me, i’ve seen that happen with Trout on 3B . . . does that mean he has no instincts? If you watch the replay it actually looks like he spins his wheels and decides to hold off bc of that.

    1. @Eric D – Honestly, my issue with Cesar supporter is “comprehension” – they don’t clearly understand my position and seem to assume that I’m suggesting to trade Cesar just to give way to Kingery. I already posted so much here to clearly explain my position and the reasoning behind it. Romus, Catch. 8mark and I had a lengthy discussion about it in the Wk 5/1 Discussion thread, please don’t make me explain it again.

      “How you can tell someone has baseball instincts thru box scores in beyond me — Eric D”

      i spend time not only to watch baseball but also to do research, read analysis, ask questions and have discussions with knowledgeable baseball fans (like this site). you don’t need to be Einstein to understand that you can obtain good working knowledge by doing those exercises. so no, you are dead wrong to assume that i only rely on box scores.

      “Also give me the examples of CH showing you he has no baseball instincts. –Eric D”

      is this a trap question?!? this is not NEW news, this is even not FAKE news. I did not make this up. Just google (or follow the posts of our fellow Phillies fan here) and you’ll get the answer to your question.

      1. KK – we understand your arguments – we just disagree with you on many of your points.

    2. another issue i have with the Cesar supporters is that they think that I’m downplaying his current performance. no, I’m not. i just believe that using the overall body of work is a better basis to assess a player. pre-July 2016 breakout, nobody seems to question the 8 1/2 yrs of Cesar’s stats (which is so consistent year-to-year and matched his physical profile as a player) so i’m quite surprise that post-July 2016 breakout, people seem to ignore the 8 1/2 yrs of available stats and analysis of Cesar.

      1. His 8 1/2 years of stats are just as good as Kingerys short career so far. Carrying a .290 avg with a .350 obp in over 400 mlb games carrys much more weight than minor league stats.

      2. Omg Kurdt give it up. its really like you just wont accept how good this kid is becoming. and he doesnt have the value as a middle infileder with light power to bring back the value, his play brings to us.

      3. I think what kuko means is let’s wait and see what this young season brings.Ceaser is he just an everyday 2nd baseman is he the next great ones. The Cano’s , Utley , Dozier,Zobrist,Odor,Kinsler, Phillips,Pedroia,Castro,Alture. players that hit .280 with 25 home runs 80 RBIs . We will see

      4. he has improved every year since his call up which shows he has stepped up his level of play.

        1. The case of Kuko & Co. vs Catch & Co. really boils down to which do you prefer, favor and root for – Cesar’s Resume vs Jetpax Profile. We can argue (and we have) day after day the analytics and merits of the incumbent 2b vs the up and coming golden boy. Take your pick. This is fun and why Jim Peyton labors to run this site. As long as it doesn’t become personal, I enjoy the debate no matter how many thumbs down I get. Cheers!

    3. Responding to not tearing it up like Hopkins or Alfaro . Kingery if fact is he has the 2nd best .ops in of the top hitting prospect in the Phillies farm. He has 1 less hr then Hoskins but 2 more RBI ,s , Alfaro is 4 less Homers. There lines go Hoskins .337 / 431/ .651 Kingery .291 /.380/ .605 Alfaro .318 / .348/ .482. it’s right here

      1. According to Todd Zolecki, Alfaro and Hoskins won’t be getting the call anytime soon. Alfaro can’t be optioned any more once he’s up. They want to be sure he’s had enough time in Lehigh. Joseph will apparently be given every opportunity to prove himself. At least this is how Zolecki interpreted what Klentak said.

        1. 8mark…an option year is for the whole year thru October.
          “a player has a finite number of option years in which he may be moved between the major and minor leagues an unlimited number of times. If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. ”
          So if Alfaro is brought up, and the Phillies want to send him back down after a few weeks, he can be sent down without clearing waivers repeatedly during this season. Next year he would have to clear waivers and be DFAed since his third option was used in 2017.

          1. I don’t think it’s that the option part. Let’s say the trade Rupp bring up Alfaro then the Phillies will! Have 2 rookie catches . Now the may also have a few rookie pitchers that’s not a good thing. . Hopefully by the end of his yr they will know what they have in Knapp.I don’t think I ever seen 2 rookie playing in the same season together.

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