Open Discussion: Week of July 18th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The Phillies came out of the break and dropped two of three to the Mets.  On Sunday, they were one-hit by deGrom.  After dropping the series, their record stands at 43-50.  

Aaron Nola returns to the rotation Monday night.

The Race for 1:1

The Phillies .462 winning percentage still leaves them solidly with the 11th worst record in baseball.

All the first round picks have signed.  Miami (7th) and Boston (12th) signed their top picks Friday before the deadline.





165 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 18th

  1. Since the brass seems non-committal on Tommy Joseph (Howard started last 2 games vs Mets) I wonder if we simply wait for Hoskins’ arrival in late ’17 or ’18 or will they look to trade for a 1bman? All other positions seem to be spoken for at the moment.

    1. Even the announcers were commentating on it. I think it’s a non-issue. Howard homered on Saturday, and deGrom can be nasty, so Howard got the start Sunday.

    2. I think Joseph will have his moments, but I don’t see him being the long-term solution at 1B. It’s hard to argue with results if Hoskins continues to rake. Hoping to see Hoskins at Philly in late 2017.

    3. I think that the brass has made their determination on Joseph and they don’t see him as a long-term option at 1b. I expect Hoskins is the most likely candidate moving forward.

    4. Joseph will have the inside track next year. He will no longer be encumbered by management’s decision to honor Howard’s legacy (albiet very faded). Then they can decide what to do with him when Hoskins emerges.

    5. Regarding Howard, I think the Phils are awaiting the results of the doping investigation to see if he’s suspended and then I believe they would recover part of his salary. If he was found guilty, I’m not sure what that would do to his buyout payment at year end. If he’s found not guilty, I think the Phils will trade him and pay the full salary and take a non prospect in return. I don’t think they’ll ever release him.

      As for Joseph, I think the Phils are protecting him a bit against tough pitching. I think they likely doubt he is the long term answer, but he is only 23 and missed a lot of ABs over the years. I expect the Phils will try to get him ABs this winter and he’ll likely share time at 1B next year with a LH 1B, maybe Asche a little bit or maybe a free agent or trade for a buy low candidate who might be coming off an injury or bad year.

      I don’t think there are any free agent options strong enough this off season to sign without first getting another year look at Hoskins development.

  2. I have to assume that Hellickson and Gomez are being talked about in trade discussions. Any other players would just be throw ins with one of these two because I don’t think Bourjos, Asche, Howard, Galvis, or Chooch have enough value to be worth trading. As for Rupp, they should keep him for now. He’s become a team leader and it’s not like they have someone ready to replace him. If Rupp has a strong 2nd half, think what he’ll be worth in the off season, if Knapp is deemed ready which is unlikely. I’d keep Rupp.

    1. The argument for trading Rupp: this might be the high-water mark for him.

      Doesn’t he right now have the something like the 4th highest OPS for a catcher? It seems probable that he’s going to regress some; that his current numbers are unsustainable.

      That said, I’d rather keep him and find out what we have.

      I would like to see Chooch traded, only so he can play on a contender. Still miffed he didn’t win MVP of the 2008 Series. He was lightning-in-a-bottle against TB.

      1. Unfortunately, his splits home (143 wRC+ vs 97 wRC+)and away are pretty drastic of a delta…not sure why this is.
        He really enjoys CBP.

        1. My friend he’d up yea he’ll buy you 1 full yr of dinners at a Ruth Christie’s if Archer ever has a Career like Carton, Schilling, Doc , Lee .2 the never trade for him they might sign him in 2020 at the age of 32. He, s a very nice man and has alot going for him then baeeball. That’s my friends A 1 he has that kind of money , A 2 he never bets unless he knows he’s going to win . 3 A yes he’s that writer
          that makes a lot of money is a Fantasy baseball writer and a on Vegas line site. A 4 Romus he will do that what he says he knows alot writer’s.

        1. The thing you hear about him. is he needs to call a better game. Davis said it, Marlin Anderson said it too.. I have no clue about his ability to call a game. but its the only negative I have heard about him.

      2. for the meager return they would likely get for him (a crappy reliever with question marks, etc), i’d rather see him get a lot of playing time the rest of the year/next year to see what he really is.

        the pitchers seem to like him as well, and that’s something that is important for the young staff…to have some consistency and tutelage from a catcher.

        the guys in the minors aren’t ready yet anyway. knapp isn’t lighting up AAA, and alfaro could use next year at AAA.

        1. That would make Alfaro our first 25 yr old rookie since Ryan Howard. I kind of think we’ll see him next year.

          1. he’s 23 now so he would be 23/24.

            alfaro had injury problems along the way that slowed his timeline (broken left hand 2013, ankle surgery 2015). plus it doesn’t look like he was moving through the rangers system at a lightning pace, likely b/c he’s had strikeout issues, and wasn’t a great receiving catcher.

            i agree though that he will likely be called up at some point next year, but not to start the year. he needs at least some time in AAA.

          2. Even very good MLB catchers can take longer than normal to develop. Carlos Ruiz was a 27-year old rookie.

  3. John Schiffner on the trend in college pitching:
    “Ninety-five is the old 92. There are more guys now throwing 95 than we’ve ever had. I always use this comparison: You see those photos when a jet plane breaks a sound barrier, with that puff? To me, that was 95. When a guy topped 95, you could tell. Lots of guys were throwing 92 a few years ago and not that many were throwing 95. Now there’s guys throwing 95 all over the place, and 98 is the old 95. I always tell the story, we were over at Orleans and David Bush who pitched in the big leagues was pitching for us. It was a 2-2 count in a tight game, and the umpire just kicked it. Perfect pitch, ball three. Everybody’s going crazy, and David was a competitor. So David reached back, and it exploded into the catcher’s glove. Everybody in the dugout gasped. I thought it had to be 95 or 96, and I asked a scout after the game and it was 96. They knew, I knew, that that was a special fastball. It was a breaking-the-sound-barrier fastball. And now that’s the norm! Now you do that on a 98. There are so many guys that can throw 93-95. We ran out a game against Wareham about three weeks ago, the starter was 94, the guy that backed him up was 95 and the next two guys were both 93 — and that’s normal. Ten years ago that would be ‘Oh my God.’

  4. Player A: 21 quality starts
    Player B: 19 quality starts
    Player c: 14 quality starts

    Player A is Cole Hamels on Rangers since trade
    Player B is Jared Eickhoff on Phillies since trade
    Player C is Cole Hamels in first 27 games as a rookie on Phillies.

    1. Interesting and helpful analysis, but Eickhoff does not have Hamels’ ceiling and Eickhoff is much older than Hamels was at the same point in their careers (by the time Hamels was Eickhoff’s age, he had a WS MVP trophy). That said, I really like Eickhoff – he’s sneaky fast, has some nice breaking pitches and has just about the best mound presence I’ve ever seen in a young pitcher. He has a chance to become a really solid 3 (and is already a good 4), which is a big deal for a guy who was pretty much a trade throw-in. The scouting department deserves a lot of credit for identifying him as a trade target.

      1. Yeah, I am not making the case that Eickhoff has Hamels’ ceiling. I agree he is a solid #3. Not the ace of a world series winning staff. But a pretty good pitcher. His performance has been terrific and he is really cheap for a while.

        1. Agreed!! I wouldn’t call him a 3 yet (let’s see him continue as he has and cycle through the league for a year before we do that), but that’s how he’s pitched for the last month or two.

    2. Eickhoff is only 3 months older than Shelby Miller – who received a kings ransom but now pitching in AAA. Eickhoff is still developing and with this physical frame as innings eater, he will be and can be a better pitcher than Miller going forward.

      I’m not sure if any team will make the same Shelby Miller overpay again, but Eickhoff (and Doobie) shows a true value of having a good scouting team.

      Now if Williams, Jake and Alfaro all pan out and help the Phillies to another WS run — the Phils should make Cole Hamels a statue.

      1. They should make Cole Hamels a statue for 2008 alone, and who throws a no hitter in their last franchise outing? They could put his statue right next to the one of Chase Utley….

  5. Just watching him. I would never believe he had that many quality starts. Better than I would have guessed. Shame he doesn’t have a good offense behind him yet.

  6. Not sure if ‘quality starts’ really tells us much. As has been pointed out many times, a ‘quality start’ is 3 earned runs allowed in 6 innings, which equates to an ERA of 4.5. The average ERA in the National League this year is currently at 4. A 4.5 team ERA so far this season would rank between 12th and 13th out of 15 teams.

    1. Tend to agree that quality starts CAN be misleading. However the idea of pitching AT LEAST 6 innings that consistently (a few were probably 6-plus) tells of stability if not being a lights out arm, which is ace material, which of course he’s not. But I like his overall makeup and repertoire a lot.

      1. 8mark… a RHP in the velo world, when you sit at 91T92 you have to have some plus secondary stuff to stay a positive factor in a rotation. So far he has shown that. But like you say…maybe not ace material, but can be a real positive back of the rotation innings-eater pitcher.

        1. Here ‘s a Question how many Aces are still in baseball. Who has an Era Under say 3.30 Avg at least 15 wins a yr and avg 200 ings ?

    2. Ummm…no, a Quality Start does not mean a 4.50 ERA. It means a start with no worse than a 4.50 ERA. Many of those games he has a far better ERA. His career ERA is 3.42, which is pretty darn good in this era.

      1. This is strictly my opinion of a QS. Yes the criteria isn’t super special but what it shows is a pitchers ability to keep their team in a game. You’d hope that after 6 youd score some runs either havin the lead or being close to a tie game. Therefore a pitcher who can keep you in games is absolutely valuable. This is what I think of when I think of a QS.

        1. Agreed. A starting pitcher’s primary job is to keep his team in the game and a chance to win, not to get credit for the W. Even Ws and Ls are rendered empty when a relief pitcher gives up the lead then his team goes ahead. That’s a bogus scoring rule that should be changed.

    3. The parameter for a quality start should be changed to 7 innings, 3 (earned) runs – 3.85 ERA.

  7. Marlins reportedly interested in Hellickson. He is scheduled to face them this Wed here and next Monday there. They have a poor farm system but if our scouts keep on doing, we might steal someone for a rental.

    1. marlins likely awarded a competitive balance pick again for next years draft, and while they officially cant trade those until the off-season, they have traded them before.
      that park might Hellickson well, even with the changes in marlins park tahis year.

      1. Hang on there….the new CBA has not been worked out, not until December.
        The Comp Balance picks could go away for the small market teams. or they make modifications to the existing lottery and possibly changes to the post-rounds that will be offered. But if there are no changes…they still will need to be one of the 12 teams to win the lottery for either Round A (6 teams) or Round B, the remaining six teams.
        But getting one for Hellickson could be a nifty move if MK can pull it off.
        I may want to take a chance on a pitcher in their system like Justin Jacome, who projects out as a back of the rotation guy but he is a LHP. I guess a lottery pick somewhat.

        1. @romus – I’m just about to throw Justin Jacome too. I think the Phils can easily get Jacome + PTBNL or the other Justin – Justin Cohen.

        2. Last year, they held the competitive balance lottery in late July. So, my guess is the lottery for 2017 picks should be held any day now. If the Phillies could land a CBP plus an interesting prospect, It would make sense to make that deal. As I mentioned a couple of times, any return for Hellickson must be measured against a late first round draft pick (and the slot money) Hell Boy would bring after declining a QO.

          1. Hinkie….hasn’t the lottery been delayed until January 2017 due to the CBA negotiations going to take place in 3/4 months?

            1. I think you will see changes in the next CBA to the QO structure. The players obviously don’t like it and my guess is some owners don’t like it either.

          2. @ Romus … I wasn’t thinking about the new CBA. You’re probably right. The CBP lottery will probably not be held the same time it was last year. My bad.

          3. also, no way any team would try to sign Hellickson if he had a QO attached to him. That is just my opinion though.

            1. You would think…but a playoff team drafting in the low 20s, and with a Comp Bal pick in hand, like the Cardinals or Cleveland…..may take the chance and sign him, lose their first pick, but still pick a few slots later.

  8. Panama signings so far…Giants, catcher, Enoc Watts for $300K
    Hard to believe Chooch….only one kid signed from Panama…pretty lean crop this year it seems!

  9. I would keep an eye on Cleveland as a potential trade partner. Hellickson, Asche, and Darin Ruf strike me as a nice package to acquire 2 midlevel prospects.

    I agree with v1 above regarding Rupp as a trade piece. Let’s hear the offer before we decide yay or nay. He’s a productive player who catches but he ain’t Johnny Bench. Rupp may have peaked. While Alfaro hasn’t proven anything yet, most knowledgeable baseball people agree that he certainly hasn’t peaked. If the return is compelling, the modest risk of dealing Rupp is worth it.

  10. I realize that this has changed some but here was a scouting report on Rupp before the draft.

    Texas JR C Cameron Rupp

    Now we’re finally getting to some college catching prospects with legit plus tools. In Rupp’s case, it’s plus raw power and a plus throwing arm. The raw power is hard to argue with, though there is some concern it’s more of a pure physical strength power rather than quick wrists and a classic swing kind of power. Rupp’s arm strength has been called above-average in some places, but, for me, his arm becomes a plus tool when you combine that above-average throwing power with his incredibly precise throwing accuracy. Arm and power, check. As for the other three tools, well, that’s more of a mixed bag. His running speed is well below-average and his long swing has enough holes against breaking pitches to keep him from ever having anything more than a league average bat. His defense, however, gives him a third above-average tool, especially his surprisingly nimble lateral movement behind the plate. via

    If you go by this scouting report, he’s basically living up to it right? Also as far as people saying his numbers are unsustainable, why is that? It’s not like he’s hitting .350/.400/.700 . . . over the last calendar years he’s hit .263/.321/.468/.789 with 17 HR (393 PA which is about 100 PAs away from a full season behind the plate) why aren’t those numbers sustainable? Rupp has improved season by season (his numbers support that), what if where he is at right now is the player that he is? Also his wRC (Home 143 wRC+ vs Away 97 wRC+) shouldn’t bother either. He’s hitting much better then league average in a hitters park and just about league average away . . . this makes sense esp for a catcher. I’m sure the road trips are harder on catchers as well and i’d take league average production on the road any day.

    1. His numbers this year are well above his head. His minor league stats are very underwhelming and his career MLB stats are also very much under his current season.
      With that being said I don’t think Philly needs to trade him but if they can get excess value for him why not do it. We already saw a ridiculous trade this year in the form of the Pomeranz deal. I personally think Pomeranz and Rupp are rather similar. Neither has had a lot of success before this year but they seemed to have figured it out.

      1. Ok so I have a question about WAR and must admit that I am not the biggest fan of it. I’m fairly young however still believe that the back of the baseball card tells you enough. For example I don’t need WAR to tell me that Trout, Donaldson, Bryant and Altuve are tearing it up this year . . I can look at their traditional numbers to see that (i get it has it’s place). Here’s my question . . . Tommy Joseph right now is hitting .256/.277/.510 w 12 HR (Fastest Phillies player to 12 HR in franchise history), his WAR on is -0.1 . . . so what WAR says is that a AAA or AAAA guy should be able to produce at the same level (or produce in a similar way to aid in wins as Joseph has). I find it hard to believe that you can grab a replacement level player and they will do what Joseph has (I get the low aver, low obp and K’s). I know i’m not explaining myself the best way but I think it makes some sense.

        1. Eric D- I’m not exactly an expert on WAR but I’ll do my best to explain it. TJ’s OBP is extremely low and his K’s are rather high considering so that does factor in. He also plays first base so he brings a very low defensive value to the equation as well. As exciting as home runs are there are other things that are also important. If TJ can learn to walk at a better rate he will significantly raise his value.
          The issue with WAR is that they make an assumption that 0 win players grow on trees. This is not the case obviously. Another issue is defensive value. It is the hardest thing to quantify and distinguish in baseball. I hope that gives you some explanation on WAR or who knows maybe I just confused you more.

          1. I understand all that is involved I just find it hard pressed to think (by war) that your AAA/AAAA would preform better then Joseph has. i guess I’m just looking at it incorrectly.

            I couldn’t agree move with you about the 0 player notgrowing on trees.

          2. So war is better for a good fielding ss. who hits 270 with 320 obp. than a first basemen with the same numbers?

            1. rocco…in the WAR area…..from the Baseball Reference aspect, is that there is oWAR for offensive and dWAR for the defensive …..and total WAR does not equal the one plus the other.
              TJ’s oWAR is positive (point).3…his dWAR is a negative (point) .6
              Total WAR is 0.0
              Now they do take into account the positional value and make necessary adjustments to reflect that.
              Shortstop and catchers have the two most valued defensive positions of the eight on the field.
              First base is one of the lowest valued.

  11. 3 Phillies pitchers in top 13 in war under 25 Nola, VV , Eickhoff . Now that’s progress ,Nola back he’s Back, he’s Back .

    1. Best stat of Nola’s line – 68 pitches over 6ip. That’s the efficiency I’m talking about.

      …..but don’t expect too many teams to call about Jeanmar.

      1. Only 3 blown saves it could be a 8th ing guy or closer . He looked like he was over throwing tonight.

    1. Interesting that he said JP Crawford was the most athletic minor leaguer off the top of his head. Not sure Eric realizes that Cozens and Hoskins are closer to ending with 40 hrs than 20 hrs which puts them in Howard territory.

  12. Kyle Drabek giving it a shot at SS?!?! Did I read that right? Wow…Best of luck to him. What a shame that his arm injuries destroyed his pitching career.

  13. Texas getting “a ton” of interest in Profar. Would anybody trade Hellickson, Rupp, and 2 prospects (maybe Quinn and a midlevel arm) for him? Today Kingery is my future 2bman, but hey, “a good plan today is better than the perfect plan tomorrow” – trivia: which movie?

      1. Alec Baldwin in “The Edge” with Anthony Hopkins, an underrated intense adventure from ’98 (I believe). Maybe they got it from George S., Rommel….I mean Romus.

    1. Think pitching Texas is going for pitching so if you can beat Matt Moore types you have chance .

      1. maybe TEX will call and ask for Eickhoff?? For a package with a combination of Profar, Ortiz or Matuella, the Phils should listen.

    2. Here’s my thought:

      to Texas: Hellickson, Gomez, Eflin, Rupp and Blanco

      to the Phils: Profar, OF Jairo Beras and salary dump LHP-Derek Holland (DL).

      Eflin and Rupp are the only Phils here who are controlled beyond this year. I wonder what Rupp’s value will be in Philly a year from now when Alfaro should be ready.

      The Phils rotation goes Nola, Eickhoff, Velasquez, Thompson and Lively in the short term. Holland you hope can be a 3-4 starter for them going forward.

  14. If Bourjos doesn’t get traded, I think they’ll let Paredes go when Altherr returns. Then Asche and Bourjos would platoon in LF. Looking forward to seeing AA. He could be a building block IMO. What do you think, Romus?

    1. Altherr has the tools… plus run, arm, field, even close to plus power….. everything but hit/contact…that is the biggest question mark going forward for him.

    2. I think it’s a near lock Bourjos gets traded.
      I think Asche may be a second player involved in a potential Hellickson trade (especially if Hellboy gets dealt to Baltimore).

  15. ESPN’s Keith Law put out his Top 50 Midseason Report rankings yesterday…..does anyone know where the Phillies guys are on his list? I assume JPC is at least top 3, behind Bregman who is numero uno. But curious on Williams, Thompson or Alfaro….if they even made KLaw’s top 50.

      1. Thanks Chad….glad to see Moniak and Alfaro moving on up there……Williams was never one of his favorite prospects so I can understand his reluctance ….not sure about Thompson.

        1. Yeah I think Moniak is almost a universal top 50 prospect. I can see him as high as 25ish.

    1. They provided no new knowledge on the situation whatsoever. They did no new interviews whatsoever so why did they post the article 1 month late? Now if they would have been able to bring at least something new to the table I’m interested. It just seems like a lazy piece to me.

      1. Agree…..the article seems to be a headline grabber. Much ado about nothing at this point.

        1. Yeah I’m not gonna make an excuse for Nick Williams lack of hustle but if you are gonna do a follow up make it an actual friggin follow up article.

    2. If Sam Donnellon was a baseball player he would have been fined for a poor effort for this article.

  16. BA also put out an an 2019 line up ,Gomez as the closer no Eickhoff or Cozens they Have Kilome in for Eickhoff. The Outfield is C, Herrera ! Nick Williams. ROTATION Ace Nola, then VV , Kilome, Thompson, lol I can’t remember the last pitcher. I know it wasn’t Eflin , Hoskins, Kingery , Jp , Alfaro Franco.

    1. Gomez won’t be closing by the end of ’16. Unless Eickhoff gets traded, they’re WAY off.

      1. I know right now who else you putting there ? The Phillies may buy 1 In a couple of yrs.A closer that is anyone but pap and Mitch Williams will do.

      1. Maybe you right Chad I glanced at it . Any want to guess the final score in tonight’s of tonight’s Texas and the Angels will be. The Starters are Loshe and Timmy L yes there’s no pitching problems in baseball.

        1. Good ol’ Timmy Jim Jam or The Freak whichever you prefer. That has to be one of my favorite ESPN commercials

    2. That can’t be jeanmar gomez — maybe another gomez that’s not with the Phils right now. Barring any FA signing, the closer role will be between Ramos and Cordero with Arano and Rivero waiting in the wings. Appel can be a good be to be a closer candidate too.

      1. You know Gomez is breaking some of the Phillies records. Who has more Saves Chapman or Gomez ?

  17. I believe the Phillies still have international money left over.
    Jorge Ona now available.
    Naturally, it appears, the Padres are the team this year, along with the Braves, in scooping up a lot of the talent.
    Jesse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB · 5h5 hours ago

    Teen OF prospect Jorge Oña has been declared a free agent & is free to sign under int’l rules. SDP considered favorite. #Cuba

    1. Ona write up by MLB.
      Position: OF Age: 19 DOB: 12/31/1996 Bats: R Throws: R Ht: 6’1” Wt: 200 lb.

      Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50
      Scouts like Ona’s muscular and projectable body. He has shown plenty of power, but he’s also developing into an overall hitter, focusing on avoiding balls out of the strike zone. He’s already displayed a polished approach in the batter’s box.
      Ona’s batting practice sessions are a sight to behold, in large part because of the hard, low line drives he sprays all over the field. On defense, Ona can play all three outfield positions and has shown good instincts. However, his overall skill set might make him best suited for a corner spot. Scouts also like his arm, and he’s expected to improve on all parts of his game once he enters an academy and receives professional instruction on a daily basis.
      A star in Cuba’s Junior National Leagues, the teenager also impressed in the COPABE 18U Pan American Championship in 2014. Ona trains in the Dominican Republic with Javier Rodriguez. The Padres are the favorite to sign him.

  18. Chase Ultey and Tj know 97 mph FB ‘s .it’s a long drive ball oh it’ s upper deck boy TJ Strong.

    1. Tommy Joseph to Todd Zo on hitting vs taking a walk:
      “I don’t ever try to walk, I’m up there to hit every pitch of every at-bat. If you’re up there to take and work a walk, then I don’t really know why you would hit. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Every time I step in the box, I want to hit. Every pitch that’s thrown, I’m trying to hit it. I think I’ve just been better at taking those pitches that are just off the plate, those borderline pitches I haven’t swung at.”
      Though……Joseph has also walked four times in his previous eight games after walking three times in his first 41, but that is just a coincidence.

      1. LOL that’s all well and good Tommy but if you don’t show the league your capable of laying off pitches out of the zone you’re not going to get good pitches to hit…

        Michael Jack had a career BB rate of 15% and a 380 OBP over a 267 BA. I’m sure #20 wasn’t trying to walk either.

        Which comes first the chicken or the egg!

        1. DMAR….agree.
          But have to admit…it is refreshing to hear a player talk like that.
          Now, as for the chicken or the egg….only rocco knows that answer!

      2. He has his AT bats last night we great he’s walked a lot more too. His k was on 6 pitches I would rather have that then a 1 pitch pop up, if you’re to stikeout make it hurt the Pitcher too. TJ is starting to improve his approach as Matt Stairs said “would I take 35 home runs Even if it cost you 180 stikeouts “. Now rather have a young Joey Votto but since we don’t TJ is doing well at the Major league level.

  19. Giants are looking for a reliever and are checking out Gomez. They also may want a depth OF. Gomez and Bourjos for Tyler Beede??

    1. Murray….Tyler Beede…oh yes …but will the Giants make that transaction?
      I can see them offering someone further down their prospect list.

    2. Beede for those 2 Murray sign me up. I don’t think there is much of a chance tho. Beede can be a bit of a flake but the stuff is pretty legit.

      The Giants aren’t afraid to trade for rentals so I could seem them trying to make a Beede for Chapman type trade.

      I read in USA Today the Cubs appear to be lurking for both Chapman and Miller as are the Nats pressing for Chapman.

    3. maybe a Neris + Goeddel or Altherr (if SF takes him) can fetch you a Beede but not Jeanmar.

      Too bad The DBacks are (probably) out of the running. Many teams are probably lining up to make a trade with ARI.

      1. Yeah, but why would the Phils trade Altherr with Neris for just Beede? If it was for Fox I could understand, but it’s not like Beede is something the Phillies don’t already have.

  20. So far, the Cole Hamels trade worked well for PHI and TEX. Since TEX is looking for SP and C — I want the FO to reopen the lines again for possible trade. See if TEX will take Hellboy and/or Rupp — and see if they can nab 1 or 2 of Mendez, Matuella, Taveras or Morgan. TEX still keeps their top prospects while plugging a needed hole(s).

    1. They might take hellboy and cooch. Apparently Cole enjoyed having Cooch as his catcher while in Philly and we’ve seen teams cater to an ace for a catcher before.

      1. And Daniels has said he wished he had Odubel back. At the right price, right package (say Hellickson, Chooch, and Herrera?) we can make that dream come true.

      2. @chad – right, Chooch is good too with his playoff experience although he will be pretty much a throw in even if the Phils add additional $$. Hellboy + Chooch + $$ for Mendez and a PTBNL (probably a Low A prospect) is good for me.

        if that happens, TEX will be my sentimental favorites if the Phils will not make it in the playoffs.

        1. Kurdt- The thing that would worry me about trading for Mendez is the fact that he needs protected from the rule 5 draft. As it stands now there is going to be a major 40 man roster crunch so it just complicated things further when you throw in another player who isn’t MLB ready.

          1. @chad – there’s indeed a number crunch at the end of 2016. But Mendez will be a better prospect that some the prospects who will be in bubble like Sweeney, Asche, Featherston, Morgan, Obbie, Ruf, etc. + being a LHP it will be probably fine to burn a roster space with him.

            I like Ibanez too but the Phils already have Kingery. Taveras and Morgan are the others I like.

            1. Very true. I like Morgan as well if he could add some power he would look really good. Taveras looks good but the just signed him last year for 2 mill I bet they want to see what they have.

        2. Kurdt- I doubt they would do it but I think I would rather have Ibanez. Maybe if Philly would kick in some extra cash.

          1. Mendez, Taveras, Berios, Ibanez…then thee were Elvis Andrus, Profar, Nomara, Odor and Phillies Alfaro…..all Latin signings……maybe it would be better to trade for their Latin scouts.

    2. Wait I though SF scouting the Phillies , everywhere reporting Texas In on Tampa Bay stock. SF smart going after Gomez , Hernandez cheaper then Yanks .

  21. Can they bet Sal it’s Called big ticket sending , give Sal there money and The Phillies would be contenders this yr.

  22. Guys wake up Balt , SF , Pitt, the Blue Jays have scouts at the game tonight. HELLICKSON ON THE BUMP pitching well I hope Hernandez pitchers 2 night.aslo Mike Montgomery traded to the Cubs for Vogelbach .

    1. I just saw the Seattle Chicago trade. Good to see Vogelbach go to an AL team so he can DH.

  23. If Klentak is smart he’ll package Hellickson with other players to maximize return instead of just getting one midlevel prospect.

    1. Hellickson pitched a great game tonight and seems to want to stay here in Philadelphia and not be traded according to his post game comments.

      1. terrific performance; that is exactly what the Marlins need so hopefully increasing the offers coming in.

        on a side note, feel bad for Kyle Lewis suffering such a terrible knee injury so early in his career.

    2. Can’t be picky everyone want’s pitching , usually a team that’s contending have 1 need . Pitching Tampa trading there entire staff. HILL Form Oakland De la Rosa from The Rockies etc. The Cubs and Boston found there needs already. Texas will get 1 of the Tampa pitcher’s . Contenders usually get 1 player while giving away some they need a flexible roster .

    1. The Phillies will do much better dealing with Baltimore. Aside from Kolek and Naylor (and they’re not trading them for a rental), the Marlins have nothing in their farm system. I can see the Phillies packaging Hellickson and Asche to the Orioles for Gray Fenter, Ofelky Peralta, and a lottery ticket. Baltimore has a recent history of trading minor league pitchers (Eduardo Rodriguez and Josh Hader) who flourish in other systems. Fenter is recovering from TJ, but was a highly regarded HS pitcher who got second round money after being drafted in the seventh round last year. Peralta is a hard throwing 19 YO RHP.

      1. I like both of them….mostly Peralta because of his size…..vbut also would like to get one of either two LHPs Tanner Scott or Chris Lee.
        Lefties are dearth in the Phillies system and both of them have the necessary velo and size to potentially be mid-to-back rotation guys…though Lee’s whiff ratio is puzzling to say the least but his H/9 is good.

  24. That would be a hell of a trade for Hellickson why would Baltimore want or need Asche. Bourjos is much more versatile OF with AL experience for the playoff run.

    1. Bourjos IMO is more valuable to an AL team cuz he would bat 9th yet provide excellent D in cf. Definitely can see him in Baltimore.

      1. 8mark…understand ChiSox are looking at Peter B.
        Not sure they have a chance for the AL wild card, but they may turn it around like the Yanks have lately.

        1. ROMUS did you see there outfield’s salary you would. It really doesn’t equal there their production .Their ripe for a Sale trade for a couple of outfielder’s power prospects not saying us but someone.

          1. No have not seen the salary for them. Outside Melky C., they seem to be reasonably priced .

        2. Romus, I just read on mlb trade rumors that Chisox have reversed course and are in sell mode, keeping SPs but getting inquiries on Eaton and Abreu(!!!) I’m in on him at 1b, you?

          1. No…..cannot say I am. in with Abreu.
            Rather wait to see how TJ does and then the guy coming up in a year or so, Hoskins.
            Abreu will cost too much I would think.

    2. Tim … Baltimore’s lineup is RH heavy. They could use a LH bat. Asche makes more sense.

      1. Ok but there showing no interest in OF help it’s all pitching . But I guess it could be they could trade them . Again for me it’s about Thompson rotation spot there’s so many 20 yr olds already in the system like Fenter. Although I guess he on a pitch count so he might behind the Medina , Garcia, Gowdy of the system.

  25. When they do trade Hellickson and move up Thompson there rotation is set. Around 24 avg age , there are going really well.1 NOTE Baltimore SP Era is 5.11 any kind of help that’s mlb really Baltimore would have called up. That Era is the 3rd worst in baseball ball. There in First still which in that div the O is the name of the game.

    1. Os lose today to those Yanks….look for them to pull the trigger on a trade…..maybe for Hellickson….Sox have caught them and could leave them in the dust.

  26. I’ll take Garrett Cleaviger and Chris Lee too lefties with good Era BB/ 9 and good whip.Tanner Scott his career bb/ 9 is 6.25 that’s 6 balls per 9 ings. I don’t know he compiles with new FO approach of controlling the stike zone. I always try to think of the Regime approach while thinking of trades.

    1. Yeah…Tanner Scott has a bit of wildness going for him. Maybe it is correctable, maybe not.
      Fenter lack of height works against him long term as a starter…but he has the stuff and the velo. And Pedro was a short guy, so who knows.

    1. You can’t teach velo….and he has it.
      Hhe can come in late in a game…and give you a Mitch Williams herculean effort.

  27. True but Velo with out control or Command on 22 yr at A+ that’s one well if he get if he gets if not AAA career. Garcia hits 100 in AAA he’s 29 that’s becaus
    e he has not figured out control or command. Not the way the new OF operates they need lefthand pitchers velo has never been a problem. I really don’t care who the Phillies get back. The Rotation will be set with Thompson coming up that will be the biggest issue.

  28. Rob Manfred looking into limiting use of Relievers in games . He said pitching changes take up too much time ., reliever ‘s are too good taking away the excitement at the end of games. Wonder if they said you can only use 2 relief after the 6th you could get 8th ing guy to pitch the 7th and part of the 8th . Then the closer take over. Here’s a idea get starters that pitch 7 ings .

    1. Will never fly….CBA and even GMs/managers will reject it….from the players aspect, limits players participation…thus limits salary. From the GM/manager aspect….limits control and strategy at the end of a game..
      Manfred may be better singing Do Wah Diddy Diddy Dum Diddy Do on this suggestion.
      Truthfully, there has to be more serious issues on his docket than in trying to speed up the game 15 minutes.

      1. He’s the chief he has think tanks they all ready saying they will shorten the season . 162 to 154 they want a faster game and the O back . They could easily make the stike zone smaller , put the DH in the NL . I would outlaw the switch so the pull hitters have a chance .

  29. My comments; Sign Hellickson for 2 years to give experience to the rotation for those 2 years. Ir get a experience FA arm to anchor the staff.

    2. Consider a 6 man rotation for the rest of the year. It would give a chance to rest tge young arms and give more of them m.l. experience.

    Do NOT trade any of the young arms. It takes 3 prospects to make 1 m.l. arm…more or less.

    With blanco getting hurt, could Althear take his place and have Asche be a utility for awhile…including subbing for Franco.

    Rupp deserves to be forced out of his starting role by a much more dominant player..568? slugging since june 10?

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