Open Discussion: Week of July 11th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

After a 5-2 week, the Phillies will go into the All Star break with a 42-48 record.  This has to be a shock for all but the most optimistic Phillies’ fans.  They swept the Braves at CBP, then split with the Rockies in Colorado.  

I’m sure that a lot of you are bummed out that the 2nd and 4th best hitters on the team are Cesar Hernandez (.291) and Peter Bourjos (.274).  Keep your chins up, Bourjos might be playing himself into a trade chip.

The Cody Asche revival is nice to see.  But I fear that it is taking at bats away from Tyler Goeddel.

Aaron Nola returns to the rotation after the break and is scheduled to pitch on Monday, July 18th.

Here is a great article by Mitch Rupert of the Williamsport SunGazette.  It’s a comprehensive interview with Joe Jordan.  Among many things it covers Crawford’s thumb injury last fall, Pullin’s “retirement”, Kilome’s improvement, and “Yes” they do have a development plan in place for all the guys you want to see challenged.

The Race for 1:1

The Phillies recent success has lifted them to a .467 winning percentage, solidly with the 11th worst record in baseball.  Realistically, they aren’t going to pass anyone ahead of them in either league so 11th should be the worst they should finish.  Still, the Yankees, Mariners, Royals, White Sox, Tigers, Pirates, and Cardinals are all within 5 games.

They already have to worry about Miami not signing their 7th pick.  If Boston doesn’t sign their 12th pick, any further improvement would add a second re-pick ahead of theirs.  For example, if their record gets them the 14th overall pick, unsigned first round picks by Miami and Boston would net the Phillies the 16th overall pick.  This is not a likely scenario, but …

 

 

 

 

171 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 11th

  1. Is it overly optimistic of me to look at possibilities of things such as Boston not signing the #12 pick as a wash? If Groome would then be in the ’17 draft would he not surely occupy one of the top 13 slots?

      1. I think he believes the Phillies will fall somewhere between 1st and 13th pick hence making groome (possibly the person he wanted this year) available for the Phillies to get

        1. but we hear the phillies weren’t fully on board with his makeup and surrounding family. By now signing contract for alot of money with Boston and going back into draft…how would that alleviate those concerns?

          1. It’s funny how they all disappeared , the major reason was he was a high school arm. The Phillies won’t have a shot at him next yr he could go in the top 5 . That’s why he went to a jr college.

          2. Jason Groome can use the extra year to become a solid citizen and show that he has matured to become a top pick next year.

      2. think he meant if the Phils finished from picks 13-16, they could get pushed down one by Boston getting a pick for not signing Groome. but since Groome might go back in draft and would likely go in first 12, the net impact to Phils would be zero, if that happened.

  2. Franco is on his way for his first 30 Hr 100 RBI .270 season. Herrera might have a .300 80 BB 100 run 20 HR season , that’s some Elite company. Rupp is the wild card .275 20 HR 50 RBI .TJ is on his way to 20 hr 50 RBI. Both Asche and Bourjos are hitting well maybe 30 Double 15 Hr’s . C Herandez can become a Good 8 hole hitter . Galvis D is playing up this yr and has timely. Hellickson may be traded that would open up a spot for Thompson . They also have super Sub’s Blanco and Parades. The Phillies had 29 wins last yr at this time ,right now they have 42 that’s a 13 win increase . That’s means they could a 10 win jump next .

  3. I love the interview with Jordan. Thanks Mitch for the wide variety of questions. A guy of Jordan’s stature should be saying these sorts of things but he has a lot of guys in the organization to be happy with. You could have thrown a dart and hit on someone Jordy could gush about. But it’s a far cry from past years where you had to talk about Larry Greene’s problems or Hewitt’s inability to get better or pitchers flaming out. It was a solid interview and he even mentioned Almarez in the final question.

    1. I agree, he basically said glowing things about everyone he was asked about, which is what he should do, but the one thing i found interesting is how he went out of his way to mention Matos. Like he was the one guy he brought up and wasnt even asked about. Makes me think the org thinks they have something in him and makes me want to keep an eye on him

    2. Cosign. Was looking forward to Mitch posting the transcript of that interview. Thought his comments on Pullin were insightful and his season has been a pleasant surprise.

    3. @bellman1 – spot on. With regards to the Bash Brothers, I think these 3 questions said it all. JJ said that Eastern League is a good league with good arms — which I agree 100% in my previous posts. AA can continue to challenge the Bash Brothers, despite of the results.

      Q: The big question all season is what’s left for Dylan and Rhys to do at Double-A?

      A: I think success is very important. I think the environment is really good. It’s upper level at-bats. It’s upper-level production. For me, I’m happy with what’s going on and I’m happy to see it continue for now.

      Q: Are they feeding off one another?

      A: I don’t think there’s any question about it. Alfaro is right there with them. I think the whole club is feeding off what those two guys are doing. The other guys are very relaxed. There’s a lot of productive hitters in that lineup. I love what’s going on and I’m looking forward to watching it a little while longer.

      Q: Do you foresee them finishing the year in Reading, or is there a chance for them to get some at-bats in Lehigh Valley?

      A: I think a lot of it depends on what happens in Triple-A. Both guys are a part of our future. They’re not in A-ball. The Eastern League is a good league. There’s good arms in the Eastern League. I’m happy with what’s happening and there isn’t a great sense of urgency to change things. Dylan needs to continue to grow as a hitter. As that continues to improve, you’re going to see the power. But you’re also going to see higher walks and lower strikeouts. And he can accomplish that right there. And for me, Rhys, he’s got a little less time than Dylan in Double-A and there’s nothing wrong with what’s going on. He can hit. You guys saw it here. He hit into a lot of bad luck here the summer he was here. But I’m good.

    4. Yea was great article about some of the questions that were on this board. Cozens and Hoskins are staying put. MICKEY MO looks great , Luke Williams looks like a ball player , how all 3 2nd baseman might get advanced. Now we need a Matt Klentak interview saying Phillies are going small on the trade deadline .

  4. It seems that Franco does really well when other players in the lineup start to hit. Also, the way Rupp is hitting this year it is sad that he won’t be in the lineup much after Alfaro gets the the Major Leagues. Hopefully they add a DH to the NL so we can play Hoskins and Joseph, or Ortiz and Cozens, or maybe Alfaro and the back up catcher (either Rupp or Knapp)

    1. Franco is a good complimentary player who would fit well hitting 5th/6th in a solid line-up. He is miscast as a 3/4 hitter with the current offense but is there due to a lack of other options.

      1. Romus my head will explode. Franco is good complimentary player? How do I respectfully tell 3. he doesn’t have a clue. Three weeks ago he posted the same thing, when Franco was going bad. I said he would come out of this. But I now will just skip any comments from him. Franco is the heart of this team. The Ryan Howard of this next run.

        1. rocco……have to admit…Phillies are probably hoping JPC and Williams become the leaders of the team down the road.
          Ricky Bo though has said Franco should not be in the 4hole but the 3hole…I was a little puzzled by that because of his big swing tendencies. But Franco has adjusted everywhere he has been in the last 6 years so it would not surprise me if he tries to take the reigns as a leader as the best hitter and player on the field. You can see it in his presence …he wants to be da man!
          Anyway, don’t let your head explode…Tylenol may help.

          1. rocco…your boy, LHP starter Fanti with 8Ks in the first 11 outs (3.2 IP) today.
            Looks like he is in a groove so far.

          2. Three hole is your best hitter, I am hoping when jp comes up. He would lead off, and Herrera moves to three and Franco at four. I told you before this kid just knows how to make adjustments. Now is goddel and Joseph could, it would help. You see the league knows that Goddell has trouble with good fastball in on him. and Joseph expect for yesterday, doesn’t work count. When he learns to work the count he will be much better, The power is there. Romus how can anyone expecially you think Williams will be team leader. So far he isn’t the kind of player guys will follow. Not with his lack of hustle

            1. rocco…IMO, Goeddel will be in LHV next season….Klentak plans are already manifested with his other Rule 5 guy from last year, Featherston…..keep him on the team this season then let him get the minor league bats he needs at AAA.
              I am willing to bet Featherston will be on the Phillies next season in a back-up role somewhere. Klentak may let Mack select the top 24 players…but Featherston will be Klentak’s sole selection at 25.
              Williams….. c’mon rocco….lets not label him already as a malcontent! Lets give him the benefit of the doubt going forward. He may just need a little maturity and maybe his friend JPC will be a good influence on him.

          3. He should definitely be in the 3-5 spots down the line. His right handedness will be nicely(along with Alfaro) between all those lefty bats of JP, Cozens, Herrera, Williams, Randolph. I would think he could hit in any of those three spots depending on pitching matchup and how hot he is at any given time. Saying he’s only a 5-6 hole hitter is kind of obscene. He’s got 30+ hr power. I’m with rocc.

        2. And now when he’s gotten hot I’m wrong? Why didn’t you step-up three weeks ago to disagree? But please feel free to skip all of my comments moving forward, won’t hurt my feelings in the least.

          Franco is a good complimentary player in that he’s a .260 hitter with limited on-base ability. Players like Franco are very important to a championship team but he is not a 3-hole hitter. They will not be a playoff team if Franco is the best hitter in their line-up..

          1. Agree, 3….Franco should be an ideal 5/6 hitter on a contender. I feel your pain whenever I post about Herrera just because I don’t think he’s a future HOFer. The biggest key pieces haven’t arrived at the big league level yet: JPC, Alfaro and Moniak (as far as position players I mean).

          2. 3up3kkk- I tend to disagree with Roccom on occasion however I’m agreeing with him on this one he did step up 3 weeks ago and say that Franco is a good hitter. Franco is a major piece in the Phillies future puzzle imo.

            1. Did I say that Franco is a bad hitter? Amazing to me how you have to either believe a guy is the best ever or you have to believe he is a bum.

              I just happen to believe he falls somewhere below the top tier of hitters.

          3. Fans are fickle. When their guy is hot, his fans are out en masse and very vocal. When he’s cold, they are silent. Then, the detractors become very loud.

            Because a player gets hot and cold a few times over the course of a season, depending on the month, the fans tell us that the player is either a bum or an all-star.

        3. No he is not nearly enough of an offensive force to be the next Ryan Howard. Before he was injured, Howard was a fairly unique offensive talent. He hit 200 HR so fast. Of course, if he can play a decent 3B, Franco doesn’t need to achieve Prime-Howard 45+ HR power to have more WAR value than Howard did. Franco hit MLB years younger and over this year and last has a full season’s worth of AB with 32 HRs. That’s very impressive, and he’s young enough to realistically increase his HR rate a little, but that will still leave him short of Howard. Howard also was basically .900+ OPS in his prime. I doubt Franco has that in him.

      2. Ok I’ll give it a try name a team that has a 30 HR 100 .270 hitter batting 6th in there lineup. Franco 24 still has a lot to learn , but he has hand/ eye cord plus bat speed and Massive power.

        1. Don’t think he’s a 30 hr, 100 rbi , 270 hitter but we will see as the rest of the season unfolds.

          1. Does anybody remember where Tony Perez hit in the big red machine’s lineup? (No not the weez kids) If I recall he hit behind Griffey and Foster, maybe 5th or 6th. That’s my offensive comp for Franco, dated as it might be.

            1. 8mark…I think Franco can be a somewhat comp to a more recent MLB player like Aramis Ramirez. But if he progresses beyond everyone’s expectations…., who knows, Adrian Beltre?

          2. He’s got 32 HRs over his last 620 MLB ABs, which is pretty much exactly a full season, so the power is already at that level or a little above. RBIs have as much to do with the guys batting in front of him as it does about Franco, still he does have 102 RBIs over those 620 AB, so he’s already there on rbi, and would be doing better on a better team. BA is .274 over those 620 AB, so he is also already there in BA. You are saying he can’t do what he has just done.

        2. As for other guys hitting 6th.

          Boston – Aaron Hill
          Cubs – Jason Heyward
          Toronto – Tulowitzki
          Detroit – Justin Upton
          Houston – Carlos Gomez.

          I would certainly put Franco in the same category as those players, but if you look at the overall line-ups for those teams, there 3-4 hitters are putting up better numbers.

          1. @3up – even at raw 23 yo (and based on recent production), I think Franco is better hitter than the players you listed with the exception of Tulo — so it’s still not a good basis to conclude that Franco is #6 (is that’s what you want to show in your example). Going back to Tulo, TOR is has a lot of sluggers so to see him #5/#6 shows how deep is batting order just like the 2008/2009 Phils.

            You might be right about Franco 5 years from now, but you can reasonable conclude that he is #5 or #6 when he is projecting to be the sources of RBIs – a hitter who normally sits between #3 to #5 hole.

            1. Any players who hit 3rd or 4th in a line-up is going to produce RBIs assuming they have hitters in front of them who are getting on base at a regular clip. Hell, Ryan Howard and his .150 BA was producing an RBI every 8.15 at-bats. With the same number of at-bats, Howard would have 10 less RBI than Franco currently has. RBI’s are a terrible judge of a player’s hitting ability.

              Look at the 3/4 hitters in the line-ups of playoff teams and they have OPS’s much higher than does Franco. Again, I’m not “down” on Franco, just don’t see him as a middle of the order hitter in a playoff caliber line-up.

            2. @3up – you can spin anything the way want to support your point. but here’s what i can say, if Franco is a #6 hitter of a given team, that’s a good offensive team and probably a contending team like what you said. But contending teams normally represents 25-30% of the league. mostly likely, he will be in the #3 to #5 for the non-contending team which represents 2/3 of the team.

              you can already draw a conclusion to what i said and verify it, if you want, by running thru each of the MLB teams lineup and replace the weakest hitter in the 1B/3B/DH and replaced by Franco. I can see tell that 2/3 of the teams will have Franco in the heart of the order.

              if you still insist that Franco is a #6 hitter of the Phillies, that will make me happy since a Phillies team with Franco as #6 hitter is a WS contender if not a WS team.

      3. @3up – who’s your comparison to Franco? It looks like you’re down on him. If he’s in the 2007-2010 Phillies – yes, he’ll be the #5 or #6 hitter behind Jimmy-Shane-Chase-Howie and flip flop with Werth. But 90% of the teams doesn’t have that potent 1-5 line up. Insert Franco to any teams today, he will be slotted between 3 to 5 for most team – and IMO that’s where Franco should be batting anyway.

        In the current Phils, Franco is an easy #3 or #4 since he is the best source of power. Even if you add JPC and Williams, Franco is still going to bat at the heart of the order.

        1. I’m not down on Franco at all, I think he will be an important member of the team as the rebuild. My issue is that he’s not a middle of the order hitter. He doesn’t hit for enough average or get on base enough to be a #3 hitter on a playoff team.

          As I stated, on the current team, he is obviously their best option for the 3-hole.

          1. @8mark – as romus posted earlier, Tony Perez bats in the heart of order or a good offensive team. You compare Franco to Tony Perez and yet you agree with 3up that Franco is #5/#6? doesn’t make any sense.

            1. Ok my bad. Scratch Perez. Sorry, KuKo. I should have said Aramis Ramirez as suggested above. He wasn’t on a contender either. Thanks for calling me on that one….

              Dreaming about the next big red machine that’s forming now.

            2. @8mark – that’s ok. i too, can get carried away at times. Franco, I think is a cut between Aramis and Beltre. So, if Franco is the #6 hitter of a team, then it’s going to be a darn good hitting team.

        2. In 164 games he has 107 rbis and 32 homeruns 322 obp. with Ryan Howard behind him for most of those games. Give me a break. he isn’t 6 hitter. Omg This kid is 23 and still learning. people on here just don’t get it. The kid is trying to be the whole team. cause he hasn’t had any help. Until recently with rupp and joseph starting to hit. unreal

        3. I think he bats #5 in that scenario, dropping to #6 when the Reading sluggers are in Philly.

    2. Don’t underestimate Cameron Rupp as he is improving offensively and defensively he is getting better. Lastly, the pitchers seem to enjoy pitching to him and he is a leader on this team. He is right now in the top half of NL catchers which creates a good situation to be in.

      1. philabalt…agree 100%….Rupp will start 2017 as the starting catcher, barring injury. Now whether or not come 2018 it is the same…that remains to be seen depending on Knapp and Alfaro’s development.

        1. The Phils best combo at catcher will likely be Rupp-Alfaro with Knapp as a 3rd catcher/utility player. I am not high on Knapp as a catcher and he may not even make it to majors as a starter. And this senario may not occur until late 2017-18.
          Now Rupp may be an enticing trade chip if they feel to head that way. Lucroy is likely the best catcher available but Rupp with small contract, improving defense and offense, and multiple control years he is likely the best value for a team trading for a catcher. Now Klentak does not have to trade him and should demand a really good return if he does. I could see a teams top 10 prospect and maybe another prospect or two if he goes that way. Not sure if other GMs would feel he is worth that, but his trade value has increased a lot. Chances of a Rupp trade is likely 10%

        1. Rangers are looking for a catcher……Hamels prefers Chooch and who knows…or even maybe Rupp, who he has worked with in the past. But MK will not trade Rupp…I hope not anyway.
          If the Lucroy deal falls thru with the Brewers….Jon Daniels may call the Phillies about Chooch. One prospect that the Phillies could get is LHP Yohan Mendez…not a top ten Ranger prospect but in their top 20.

          1. I understand that Alfaro is probably the catcher of the future, but I don’t want to go into next year with a rookie catcher w/no MLB experience. Chooch is probably gone after this year and if we trade Rupp that is exactly where we would be or have to possibly pickup a career backup in FA.

  5. Imagine a big league team with Arquimedes and Adonis! Could be a solid foundation for the “all greek” team!

    1. I think there’s a case to be made for wanting to get the best talent possible in a deep draft.

    2. It’s not just the better draft pick. It’s the larger slot money (bonus pool) that comes with it. It’s fun to win, but they’re not going to the playoffs. One more year with a large bonus pool to acquire a crop of prospects like they brought in this year is fine with me.

      1. @Hinkie- you are 100% correct. And it’s not just the larger pool of money for draft picks, but the increased pool for J2 international signings.

      2. Yes but to get to the Playoffs you don’t go from 60 wins to 110 in one season . There seasons with 75 ,85 , and so on. The Phillies are now rebuilding there bringing up Prospects that will produce . The wins will ad up like they are. The have a good sys now they don’t need to draft very high to produce talent. Anyone one want to tell VV, Eflin etc to stop pitching well or Franco, Herrera to stop hitting because the Phillies need to draft high next yr.

    3. this is what basically the sixers are doing. Not necessarily the sexiest thing to do to acquire better talent, but there’s reason to the madness.

      basketball is different from baseball so I think the Phils can continue to acquire good talent without doing a sixers-like tanking.

      1. KuKo…..here in lies the issue, at least in past management philosophy.The Phillies can strive for that best record and playoffs without ‘tanking’, but will they spend the money , especially in the international market to acquire the pipeline of talent? The last regime were reluctant and then finally inching upwards but not until 2011 for Tocci at $800K…and then Ortiz last year. Plus they gambled on trading prospects for established major leaguers along the way.
        Trying to establish the ‘Cardinal’ model of baseball management is difficult.

        1. @Romus – I can only imagine if the Phils have Almaraz running the draft and give Sal more $$ in the international front during Amaro’s regime. I think the Amaro’s FO fault are a) not utilizing resources to acquire talent, b) not hiring the right people who can evaluate and develop talent and c) trying to outsmart themselves and think they know more that anybody else in the league. The continued success of the last great Phillies core + great years from Doc and Cliff really masked the ineptness of Amaro’s regime.

          Unlike in other sports – annual talent infusion is abundant thru Rule IV, IFA and Rule V – and for Rule IV good talents are still abundant even after round 3.

          1. Hopefully Middleton lest macP/Klentak have the money to do just that.
            BTW…..once it was apparent Ruben’s days were numbered after the 2014 season with no extension in place……the ‘Charlie/David/PatG’ handcuffs were removed and he was on his own….then he started the ball rolling in the right direction that off season with the Dec 2014 trade of JRoll

          2. Maybe Ruben Amaro was restricted by the old ownership not to spend too much in Latin America and other International markets?

            1. philabalt…he may have prior to Tocci in ’11…..but they do go cheap on Franco ($100K), Kilome ($40K), Medina ($70K), and struck gold, then there before Ruben became head GM but worked as asst GM…there were Galvis and Hernandez who were also inexpensive signings.
              Heck…even the Rangers went low, and for them that is a surprise, on Odubel at $175K back 8/9 years ago.

            2. @philbaltfan – RAJ’s FO main issue really is evaluating and developing prospects especially during 2009 to 2012. JPC fell to the Phils @ #16 in 2013 and it’s a no brainer to pick Nola @ #7 in 2014 considering the need — for me, this are more a given/choices by default rather than scouting success.

              the Phils spend bigtime $$ in FA during the WS run, so it’s hard for me to believe that they suddenly go cheap in FA (what’s $2-3M per year) when the revenue stream is at the highest. my though here is that the RAJ FO just didn’t look enough into the IFA for talents, that’s why the spending almost at minimum especially to the other big organizations.

              If RAJ is still making the call during these trades, the Rollins, Byrd, Cole and hopefully Papelbon, Revere and Chase trades — is starting to turn into a scouting success that good FO normally does.

            3. Remember it was Bill Giles(former owner) who closed the original Phillies Academy(not sure where) and did not reopen until much later. Also, the old ownership did not approve any large signings until 2011 as Romus noted.

            4. philabalt…..Phillies did go big on the two Korean pitchers…Lee and Kim….no lie that was their names… in March 2001..over a million a piece…and it failed….so for 10 years they went into monetary hibernation on international acquisitions preferring quantity vs high-end expensive selected signings.
              In ’99 remember it was Josue Perez at $850K…Ed Wade was the GM at the time.
              They were burned on all accounts so they must have changed philosophies.

            5. The Phillies had the premiere program in the Dominican Republic, when Giles bought the team. He laid off the scout who was signing all the talent and continued with just the administrative guy. Giles also gutted the scouts scouting the draft, cut draft spending, and presided over the destruction of the minor league teams.

  6. I’m not worried at all about where we pick next year. This scouting dept. has been terrific so if we get a pick in the 11-20 range I have plenty of confidence that will be a great player too.

    1. Exactly the Phillies have have the youngest Mlb team in the majors . The new talent personal are doing very well trust in them.

    2. Dmar- I am confident in the Phillies ability to draft good prospects but it’s easier to draft better prospects when you have a larger bonus pool.

    3. That isn’t guaranteed with great scouts. There are only so many top prospects in each draft. When you draft 11-20, you have to have a lot of teams miss on the good prospects, because there are rarely more than about a dozen really solid prospects in a draft. Crawford was the last guy recognized as a top prospect in his draft (and just about the top guy in that draft), but we don’t get him if we draft a pick later or another team recognizes his true talent. There will still a few recognized top guys when we took Nola, but he turned out better than some of the guys drafted ahead of him. Good for us for identifying him, certainly far from the typical Wolever 1st rounder we had become accustomed to. There’s a lot of luck to having a plus future MLB player fall to you when you pick after #10.

  7. There may be a FA to go after this off season. I know that may be a year too soon, but being in the Top Ten means we do not forfeit a Draft Pick. I think that is very important. So, I clearly would rather be there than 14 or 15, even if it means a few more losses.

    1. hard to see what FA they would sign with a qualifying offer attached. Strasburg was the only ace and he’s locked up. Hard to see the position guy (Cespedes the exception:?) you’d sign as you have young players at basically every spot you want to give a chance to – and probably too early yet to go after a Jansen/Chapman-

    1. you could also put altherr in CF. use nick elsewhere in the OF.

      the thought is, sooner rather than later, there is going to be a logjam of guys in the OF blocking one another. roman quinn will probably warrant a callup in CF next year.

      i’d say move odubel back to his natural position now to help alleviate the blocking. plus there’s no one knocking at the door for 2b in the minors anyway.

      1. Odubel to 2B? Not going to happen. If the Phillies wanted Odubel to switch, they would have done that in spring training, not halfway through a season.

        And there’s Kingery and Valentin in the minors. And in case you didn’t notice, Cesar has heated up at the plate. He’s not the long term answer, but he’s doing the job for now.

        Why would Quinn warrant a callup? He’s been hurt through out his minor league career. I think he’s missed time every year for the past 3 years.

        1. odubel was originally a 2b in the rangers system. they switched him upon arrival in philly so he could play every day as a rule 5 since chase was still at 2b.

          1. Nope he was switched before the draft in summer league ball. That’s why the Phillies drafted him they need a CF.

            1. 1000% wrong. He was an 2b with the Rangers and stuck behind a lot of prospects in their system in the infield. He played a little bit of LF in 2014 with the Rangers but not much. He only first tried center field in Winter ball as a desperate way to get around the infield backlog right before the Rule 5 draft in December 14′. Also the Phillies weren’t desperate for a center fielder at the time. In fact they moved Revere from Center to left

            2. Ok then it was winter ball which I meant Revere your right because of his arm. Anyway they wanted Herrera as an outfielder .The Phillies FO has never spoke of moving him.

            3. agree they never spoke of moving him. i’m just trying to think of how to get the OF’s that are close to coming up (williams this year, quinn/cozens next year) and already there (altherr, asche, etc) a place to play on the big club. plus the 2b prospects in the minors aren’t exactly exciting, and they are much further off from warranting a call up (>1year, if at all).

              appreciate the thoughts and debate on this topic. just spit balling some ideas.

        2. the 2b’s in the minors are much further off. putting odubel back at 2b now partially alleviates an issue that already taking place. when altherr comes back, he’s going to need time, and he can play CF. even if they don’t call nick williams up.

          i agree that all these guys won’t be here long term, but there’s still only so many at bats to pass around to these OF’s to prove themselves.

          1. @MQ – you’re correct, the next 2B prospect is at least 12-18 months away. However, Galvis and/or Cesar will keep the 2B warm for Kingery. Super sub Blanco might even asked to play 2B if needed. I understand that Galvis, Cesar or Blanco are not the future of 2B, it’s ok since the Phils are contending.

            Bourjous, whether traded or not, should not be blocking any playing time so I don’t see an OF of Doobie-Goeddel-Altherr-Asche as crowded.

            Likewise, wrist injury zaps the ability to hit (for power) so Altherr can still be optioned in AAA to work on that (and continue his work in the AFL).

      2. @quchi – why move Doobie when no one yet is forcing him out of the CF?? Williams can play CF but I don’t see him as a CF in the long run, he will probably settle in the LF.

        I understand the exciting probably of having Quinn-JPC in the top of the order but I want to see Quinn play 1st before I can say he is the long term CF and move Doobie.

        1. I mean “exciting probability” not probably.

          i’m having grammar issues since i’m typing using my phone…

        2. when williams is called up, how are they going to allocate playing time to all these OF’s? altherr, asche, goeddel, bourjos, williams (upon callup), etc.

          it will be a clusterF of a platoon, and no one will be able to get into a groove. at least if you free up one of the spots by moving odubel back to 2b, it will help a bit.

          1. @MQ – most likely Williams will not going to see a lot of at bats in MLB this year so no need to worry about playing time — since he will be a Sept call up together with JPC and other top prospects. Quinn (if healthy) or maybe Sweeney might get the call ahead of Williams since they are already in the 40-man

            even if bourjous will be traded in and Asche will be relegated to the bench – the OF makeup for most part of Aug will be Goddel-Doobie-Altherr with Asche as the main back up

            likewise, the Phils will still keep Galvis and Hernandez for the rest of the year so the Phils still have options in 2B. This might change next year, but I don’t see the Phils moving Doobie out of CF this year.

          2. Goeddel will be in Allentown in 2017. Asche is odd man out or the 5th OF. The OF is Williams-Herrera-Altherr and they get most of the ABs. Bourjos likely/hopefully traded this month and they add a similar, cheap, non-comp FA guy as the 2017 4th OF.

            1. Who the 4th and 5th Of when does Williams come up and Altherr is no sure thing He has a small body of work.

        3. Quinn has stay healthy that’s a big if .2 can he walk like Herrera and get on base Quinn K rate went up his 2nd yr in Reading. Nobody can really get a read on Quinn if he can’t stay on the field .

      3. MQ- All of the depth that Philly has in center feild is unproven. If it ends up that Philly has to many cf’s they will find a solution whether that is trading players or moving a player off cf.

      4. I like the possibility of altherr in cf, Williams in rf, and odubel in lf, with Quinn on the way. That’s some depth!

    2. Future OF based only on my gut is:
      Williams lf, Moniak cf, Altherr rf; if DH is implemented in NL, then Randolph and Knapp figure into the picture as well.

      1. who is regarded as the best defensive CF in the system? is it still Quinn, maybe Tocci or Altherr or maybe now Moniak? Any opinions?

      2. but before that, say end of 2017/start of 2018- williams-odubel-cozens with Altherr/Goedell as backups who play alot against lefties, Quinn traded.

  8. Can anyone give a scouting report on Malvin Matos . . . I feel like i’ve never heard of him before but could be wrong. He sounds like a player Jordan is very excited about.

    Also in regards to Rupp . . . if he can be a .280/.340/.500 with 15-20HR per year . . . That’s a good offensive catcher right now . . . it will be interesting to see what they do if Knapp/Alfaro are ready while Rupp continues to improve. He’ll be 28 going into next season . . . it’s hard to move a catcher who produces offensively but if you are confident in Knapp/Alfaro do you consider moving him in the off season?

    1. Oh I love Puigs potential in cbp. If it only costs a few B tier prospects I do it. Something along the lines of Lively and Knapp. We have a nice young Latin corps in place and he could fit right in and not have all of the expectations on him. Relax, put in work, and play ball.

      1. If that’s what it cost to get Puig, I would do that in an instant. He’s still 25, and he can still hit. And he has a cannon for an arm.

        1. Guru….but is he a winner, a team player?
          Is he the next Albert Joey Belle?
          Will he influence JPC, Williams, Franco to the ‘dark’ side.
          Will the coach’s need to hide their daughters or put chastity belts on them when the team is in town?
          Remember….the ‘Phillies Way’ to success.

          1. :”Puig’s reputation preceded his time with the Dodgers. During spring training 2013, Mitch Poole, the Dodgers’ longtime clubhouse manager, assigned Puig’s jersey number on a lark. “I thought it’d be funny to give him number 66 to reference 666, like he was Diablo,” Poole told Knight. During the spring, Puig cottoned to the number and asked to keep it because he thought it was good luck.
            Upon his debut, Puig already made teammates wary by engaging in a relationship with a minor league coach’s daughter. His inability to show up on time was another constant problem. Puig was chided by veteran Skip Schumaker during his rookie season for coming to the stadium 20 minutes after he was expected to arrive. Manager Don Mattingly benched Puig opening day when he was nearly an hour late.”
            http://sports.yahoo.com/news/book–disdain-for-yasiel-puig-by-dodgers-teammates-no-longer-a-secret-212239227.html

            …I think he would do well in the Bronx……another zoo again.

  9. Odd……no official word on any Panamanian kids signing so far. There probably are not a lot like the DR or Ven….but the Phillies normally sign one or two every year. The Astros have also signed a few over the years also.

  10. When does everyone think each top prospect will be called up (it would be nice to include a month if the year is 2016)
    JP Crawford
    Nick Williams
    Jake Thompson
    Jorge Alfaro
    Dylan Cozens
    Rhys Hoskins

    1. I left out some of the other prospects because they are in the lower levels of the system or aren’t preforming as well as they should be right now.

    2. Going for Joe Jordan interview Dylan Cozens and Hoskins are staying put in 2 A. So Maybe sept 2017 for them.Jorge Alfaro April 2017 I think it’s about his D which is improving and his Approach which is really improving.The Crawford factor sept 2016 , Williams whenever he walks more . Now Thompson when Hellickson is moved . Joe Jordan did say Luke Williams is really liked so is Micky Mo and Mantos. The younger generation so we’re in goid shape.
      ..

    3. JP Crawford – 9/1/2016
      Nick Williams – 9/6/2016
      Jake Thompson – 8/2/2016
      Jorge Alfaro – 9/1/2016
      Dylan Cozens – 6/1/2017
      Rhys Hoskins – 6/15/2017

  11. I remember someone on here saying that the Phillies should trade Cameron Rupp. I disagree with trading him, but don’t you think they should see what other teams think he is worth?

    1. What makes you think other teams haven’t inquired about him? We’ll never know what happens behind closed doors.

      Look, I agree that we shouldn’t trade him. But unless we get seriously wowed by an offer, I wouldn’t trade him. It’s hard to find a decent catcher.

      And yes, I know about Alfaro, but he’s UNPROVEN. He’s not here in the majors with an .800 OPS. Heck, if super prospect Byron Buxton can struggle for 2 years, there are no guarantees with prospects.

  12. Also, do you think the Phillies will trade Jeremy Hellickson, and if you think they will (or at least you would trade him) what do you think is a fair return that the Phillies would accept?

    1. Phillies may be motivated to trade Hellboy because he’s a FA at the end of the year and he’s pretty much blocking Jake Thompson. We won’t get much for him, maybe 1 or 2 B level prospects at High A.

      1. This probably sounds counter productive but I hope if the Phillies trade Hellickson they get players that are younger and further away from the majors. There is going to be a massive 40 man roster crunch this year and I hope the Phillies don’t lose a good player in the rule 5 draft.

    2. to the Red Sox: Hellickson. J. Gomez, A. Morgan, A. Blanco, M. Canelo and P. Bourjos

      to the Phils: P- Clay Buchholz, LHP- Brian Johnson, P- Michael Kopech, 1B – Josh Ockhimey, IF/OF Brock Holt, OFYoan Aybar and OF Kyri Washington

      It’s a reprise of the ’15 Hamels deal — trade personnel that don’t figure in the Phils’ rebuild for prospects and a salary dump (Buchholz).

      1. We already have enough OUT fielder’s to stock half the minors leagues. Look for a L hand pitcher in the last yr of his contract. A good one that the Phillies could sign that’s not injured.

  13. FO said that Odubel is staying in CF for the next 10 years, period. The Rangers sent him to the 2014 – 2015 Venezuelan Winter League Season.

    1. That’s just blather from the FO to keep Odubel happy. If Moniak develops as the Phillies expected when they made him the 1.1, then CF is his in perhaps 4 years.

        1. Yep Herrera to 2nd C Hernandez to 3rd Franco to 1st Galvis to multi tool. All so they can fit prospects that have never hit a mlb pitch . Players LIKE Obie that’s excelling at the mlb level get move around . I love Micky Mo , Williams and Altherr but let’s wait and see in stead of predicting the furture.

          1. Or the Phillies could just move NW, Quinn, Cozens, Tocci, Mickey Mo, C, and Josh S to middle Infeild then the Phillies won’t have an of logjam.

            1. Really though trade 2 C and N Williams are both LF N Williams can play CF but not over Mickey Mo . Herrera better then Quinn and Tocci . So trade N willams, Quinn, Tocci and a good pitcher for a vg lefty pitcher .

  14. Herrera will not go back to 2B, however, He was actually voted the best defense 2B by coaches in I believe the Texas League, when playing w the Rangers. I would assume he can handle 2B but reports are closer to Hernandez at 2B then Galvis like. Also i’ve heard he won’t hit enough to be valuable at 2B . . . this I don’t agree with. For example lets say that he was around when when the Phillies had their run (Imagine they don’t have Utley) . . . there would have been enough power in the line up with players like Howard/Werth/Ibanez/Burrell/Rowand/Rollins to not worry about it at 2B. That’s just something I never understood . . . it really should be based team by team, no? For example the Marlins won a WS w Castillo at 2B and to be honest Herrera is a better offensive player. Maybe i’m interrupting what people are saying incorrectly but i dunno.

    1. i think it’s possible he moves back to 2b, but as others have noted, it would be in the offseason.

      first, let’s see how nick williams and altherr do in the bigs the rest of the year, and what comes of goeddel/asche. bourjos will be gone (he’s on a 1 year deal).

      if they have a log jam of OF and they realize guys will be knocking on the door (cozens/quinn), they may just make the move in spring training so he can get accustomed to 2b again.

      will be interesting to see what shakes out

  15. One more interesting fact . . . (and i’m sure this was said somewhere but I don’t remember) . . . Odubel Herrera was the 8th pick in the 2014 Rule 5 draft . . . picked right before him is a player in the Phillies organization right now . . . With out cheating, name the player . . . (side note on the player im talking about . . . Baseball America put out a preview for that draft and gave this player the same odds to stick with his new club as they did Herrea 50%.

  16. Odubel Herrera: The All-Star
    Rangers general manager Jon Daniels told MLB.com’s Jon Paul Morosi recently that of the prospects that the organization has lost in their recent transactions, Herrera is one that he would like to have back. “The greatest compliment we could pay our scouting and player-development people is that we have always been in the position to make a move if we need to,” Daniels told MLB.com this week in a telephone interview. “These guys have, in my opinion, performed at the top of the industry as far as producing players. Look at the number of homegrown players we have in the big leagues right now. We’re proud of that. “Some of them I’d like to have back: Odubel [Herrera], Kyle Hendricks, Tanner Roark … They’ve all performed better than we anticipated. But that goes back to our people, too. We have a mind-set that we’re trying to win, and we know those stories are going to come up. We’re not afraid to take a risk and know that we’ll probably read about a prospect playing well elsewhere.

    1. Also heard, besides the Padres, the Yankees were hoping that Groome would fall to them and they were going to go way overslot for him. Who knows.
      He will probably sign in the next 2/3 days.
      Sox have a terrible record on HS pitcher development…last 15 years Jon Lester is the sole high pick success….Kopech and Owens so far the jury is out on.

  17. Jared weaver throws a good game. look at his record. When a team wins a championship with righthanders who throw 90 , then I will believe. Andrew miller is good cause he has a great slider plus a 97 mph fastball. Fred galvis hit a 98 mph fast ball and now its better to throw slow. stupid. article. if you want a bunch of 4-5 in your rotation then sign low velo pitchers.

  18. You took 1 example out the article there were several made by players , gm’s and coaches. Yea your right Espn writes and GM and mlb players don’t know baseball there stupid . They pitchers like A miller throws his FB 41.1 % of the time Kershaw his Fb 47 % king Felix 41.58 % fb who rely on off speed pitches more the Fb. Another question was asked why do mangers pull there starters After going though the line up twice. Even Joe Blanton saved his career by not using his Fb as much .

    1. Tim I am so tried trying to talk to you. You show me teams that win world titles with low velo guys , that’s all. simple. You need velocity to set up other pitches. I am not going to answer you anymore its a waste of my time. You can pull aritlce out and I know what pete just said the other day about the added velocity on Gonzalez. Now if he makes a mistake better chance to get away with a 95 mph fastball then a 90. You just don’t know the game, plain and simple

      1. Lol I don’t know the Game where’s Gonzalez he was sent down that extra Velo helped his Era was over 5. 40% of all Homer runs hit are on 94 mph plus Fb .where’s the great a Mets staff 2 left ,1 hurt so bad he can hardly pitch. You don’t understand the article below it’s called metrics.you call anybody that argues with you names .I’m above that I don’t need name calling to prove my point. Gomez has 20 saves he can’t throw 97 . Giles throws 100 and he has 1. The Yanks have Miller , Chapman the Phillies are better then them. Home Runs will continue to fly out of ballparks as long as the hitters are geared up for the 95 mph FB.

        1. Tim your funny
          He is one of the hottest guys on the market, if Yankees let him go. funny keep reading. I Guess only guys who throw hard and when I say hard I mean not 90 or 92, for right hand pitchers. I came on here and told people, and romus knows this, that with his low velo. I don’t think aaron nola is a top of roatation pitcher. This was the day after. vi posted. If they repicked the draft he would go number one How is he doing now. He lost his velo. without that, it makes your breaking ball, a pitch guys will sit on. cause, with low velo they know you cant get it by them. If that doesn’t make sense to you. nothing will. Every guy for the most part can hit a fast ball. that’s why you need secondary pitches, You set guys up, that is pitching, but if you don’t have velocity, you wont be successful. How many hr did Gonzalez give up? how do you know they all were on fastballs? I feel for you. just try to watch the game. Don’t always believe what you read. Why would groome be a hot prospect. cause he throw 90. How many kids got drafted in the first round who didn’t have good velo? Gomez sunday was at 95, do you ever watch a game???

          1. rocco/Tim…..whether a pitcher throws 99 or 89……it comes down to the real estate and that is …..location, location, location.

            1. Yea I’m not going to argue with that I’m not the saying if you can’t throw 94 you can’t sucessed In mlb baseball. The last article proves the increase in HR In baseball since the middle of last yr. The Offense is a coming back in baseball the Era are begining to swell. Read the last article about about metrics.I always been a movement and location .you can give me Doc, Lee, Hamels , Schilling, Lodge , Larry Anderson, The wild thing cost The Phillies The Championship.

          2. My phone app is how. thing is the added velo didn’t make Sev a better mlb pitcher. On Nola every young pitcher goes though a tough period . NOLA might be though it.his last outing the last 3 ings he was good it took 3 yrs before Nola hit a tough spot. Wait I’ll give some recent pitching lines . 6 ings 9 h 5 runs 4 ER 0 BB 5 K’s , 4.1 9 h 6 r 6 ER 0 BB O K’S . HIS ERA Went from 2.71 on June 12 to 3.38 on July 10 . Who Steve Matz one of the Mets Rotation. He has bone spurs at 25 not good. Thor Era went for 2.00 Era June 8 to 2.56 July 8 he left with a dead arm he making his next start.Bty he given up 28 Sb that the most in entire Mlb. There’s 2 young pitchers getting hit . Now Jake Arrieta heard of him Era 1.86 on June 11th July 8 2.68. In his last 21 ings he’s given up 17 runs you call that a rut.How about Lester getting Bomb really his Era went from 2.03 too 3.01 in 2 starts.3 of top Era pitchers Avg 91 fb Bumgarner, Cueto, Pomeranz. Explain this I gave you 2 young 2 very good veteran pitchers plus I never called you stupid , or told you u don’t know the game.

      2. A MILLER 18 slider 9 Fb 1 single 1 double 1 walk was taken out lol of the All Star game he stinks.

  19. explain why. by johnthan hale.

    One thing to note is that this graph just shows the percentage of each pitch that is hit for a home run at each particular height. That is why the home run rate for curveballs is sometimes higher than that of fastballs, despite more fastballs being hit for home runs overall; relatively few curveballs are thrown up in the zone, but when they are, they are more likely to be hit for a homer than a fastball in the same spot.

    1. That why you don’t try to hang a Curveball . plus many pitcher’s either don’t throw a CB as often or not as all. The batters are feasting on High Velo Fb there sitting dead red . You can see it in some of there stats Duvall has 12 BB this yr 12.

    1. I’m not necessarily interested in trading anyone who’s cheap and producing, but I would prefer to wait and see what is being offered first. There are no untouchables. Just a few unlikely’s.

  20. He’s just trying to gain some interest in for the trade deadline there really isn’t a big trade chip this yr.funny 1 writer says trade Rupp there’s another one that not too.there’s know Hamels this yr the next big move could be in the winter .Macphail did say something about getting a pitcher.

  21. ‏@EvanDrellich

    Source: Red Sox No. 12 overall pick Jason Groome is in Boston to take his physical. Deal close but not finalized.

    1. 3.65 mil on another note Pomeranz was traded to the Red Sox . They gave up an 18 yr old pitcher.

  22. Nice Mt Rushmore forming in future Philly professional sports – Crawford, Simmons, Wentz and the Ghost.

  23. Calling Hinkie Japan pitcher Shohei Otani / dh wins Japan’s HR Derby. Just bring a blank check and say here.

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