Open Discussion: Week of June 20th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The Phillies are 30-40.  They went 1-6 last week.  After winning the first of two games in Toronto, the Phillies are mired in a 6-game losing streak.  They split in Toronto, dropped 2 to Toronto at CBP, and have dropped the first 3 of 4 to Arizona in their current home stand.

They begin a 9-game road trip with 3 games in each of Minnesota, San Francisco, and Arizona.  SF could be Peavy, Bumgarner, and Cueto.  Ouch.

The Phillies’ pitching stats rank in the middle of the NL pack in most categories.  They are second most in HR and a distant 3rd in Ks.

As we would all expect, their offensive stats are at or near the bottom in most categories.

The Phillies’ recent decline has dropped them to the 6th worst record in baseball.  A top 5 pick seems assured.

Prior Week’s Transactions:  

  • 6/19 – Reinier Roibal assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/19 – Phillies optioned Phil Klein to Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/19 – Phillies claimed RHP Phil Klein off waivers from Texas Rangers.
  • 6/19 – RHP Gregory Infante assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/19 – Yacksel Rios assigned to Lehigh Valley from Clearwater.
  • 6/19 – Will Morris assigned to Clearwater from Reading.
  • 6/19 – RHP Will Hibbs assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – OF Tyler Kent assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – LHP Alexander Kline assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – RHP Tyler Hallead assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – RHP Randy Alcantara assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – 1B Darick Hall assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/19 – OF Luke Maglich assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/18 – Reinier Roibal assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading.
  • 6/17 – Phillies optioned Colton Murray to Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/17 – Phillies recalled RHP Severino Gonzalez from Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/17 – Gregory Infante assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading.
  • 6/17 – Jeremy Bleich assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading.
  • 6/17 – Anthony Vasquez assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/17 – Joey DeNato assigned to Reading from Clearwater.
  • 6/17 – Matt Hockenberry assigned to Reading from Clearwater.
  • 6/17 – LHP Scott Harris assigned to Williamsport from XST.
  • 6/17 – Phillies signed free agent IF Evan Rogers to a minor league contract.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Kale Fultz to a minor league contract.
  • 6/16 – Phillies placed RHP Alec Asher on the restricted list. Lehigh Valley only has 78 games remaining this season.
  • 6/16 – Reading Fightin Phils placed CF Roman Quinn on the 7-day disabled list retroactive to June 15, 2016.
  • 6/16 – Will Morris assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 6/14 – Anthony Vasquez assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading .
  • 6/14 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Zach Eflin from Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/14 – Phillies optioned Luis Garcia to Lehigh Valley.
  • 6/13 – Lakewood activated Zachary Coppola from the 7-Day DL.
  • 6/13 – Lakewood released Venn Biter.
  • Organization Rosters are up to date.

Williamsport’s initial roster was filled with the following players:

  • 6/15 – Jesus Alastre assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – RHP Jacob Waguespack assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood.
  • 6/15 – Luis Encarnacion assigned to Williamsport  from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Felix Paulino assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Kenny Koplove assigned to Williamsport  from XST.
  • 6/15 – Horace Stubblefield assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Carlos Indriago assigned to Williamsport  from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Lucas Williams assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Arquimedes Gamboa assigned to Williamsport  from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Ranger Suarez assigned to Williamsport  from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Juan Luis assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – LHP Scott Harris assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood.
  • 6/15 – LHP Jeff Singer assigned to Williamsport.
  • 6/15 – Geury Ortiz assigned to Williamsport  from DSL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Bailey Falter assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Enmanuel Garcia assigned to Williamsport from DSL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – LF Samuel Hiciano assigned to Williamsport from Clearwater.
  • 6/15 – Adonis Medina assigned to Williamsport  from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Jose Nin assigned to Williamsport from DSL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – Jose Antequera assigned to Williamsport from XST.
  • 6/15 – Rodolfo Duran assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/15 – OF Jake Sweaney assigned to Williamsport .
  • 6/15 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Williamsport from GCL Phillies.
  • 6/14 – Mark Laird assigned to XST from Williamsport.
  • 6/14 – Scott Harris assigned to XST from Williamsport.
  • 6/14 – Ismael Cabrera assigned to XST from Williamsport.

The Phillies went public with the following draft signings –

  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #6 OF David Martinelli.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #7 C Henri Lartigue.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #8 RHP Grant Dyer.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #9 RHP Blake Quinn.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #10 RHP Julian Garcia.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #12 RHP Justin Miller.
  • 6/16 – Phillies signed #16 C Brett Barbier.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #17 3B Danny Zardon.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #18 RHP Jake Kelzer.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #14 1B Darick Hall.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #19 RHP Will Hibbs.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #20 1B Caleb Eldridge.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #24 RHP Tyler Hallead.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #26 OF Tyler Kent.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #28 RHP Jordan Kurokawa.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #29 LHP Alexander Kline.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #31 RHP Tyler Frohwirth.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #32 C Daniel Garner.
  • 6/15 – Phillies signed #34 OF Luke Maglich.
  • 2016 Draft Tracker.

69 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of June 20th

  1. The current Phils’ woes have seemed to inspire some fans on various boards to want to trade prospects for young established players. From my vantage point, the Phils current record is not much different from what I expected and their early season success should not have confused close watchers about the size of the reworking required and the time it will require. I think there is no alternative to patience, that the moves made between now and the trade deadline should be consistent with long term goals and not triggered by discontent with the current team on the field. As to the pace of promoting prospects, I think you pick your fruit when it’s ripe and not based on the emptiness of your larder. So you belt tighten in the meantime.

    1. Completely agree. This new front office seems to be plotting a steady course. Nobody bats 1.000 when it comes to making each decision correctly BUT there are organizations like St Louis and San Francisco who have built into there system a way to sustain success, which doesn’t mean you go to the World Series every year but those teams remain within striking distance. An off year occasionally when they miss the playoffs but they rebound well. That’s my hope for the Phillies. At least there’s evidence now that they’re building to stay at or near the top perennially. I’m excited about that!

      1. Giants did have four bad seasons in a row…..’05 thru ’08…Tim L. 1st pick (10th) in ’06 and Buster was the 5th pick in ”08 and then they began their climb.

  2. Anyone who wants them to trade for established vets don’t understand a rebuild and what they are trying to do. With that said I’ve made a commen on another thread about trading for Wil Myers. A move like that (depending on the prospects you are moving) would help the rebuild IMHO. It would have to be for a player who is young 26 or younger who still has at least 3 years left before they can become a FA.

    1. Wil myers is one of my favorite players. I would love for the Phillies to make a legitimate push for him. Possibly Goedell, lively and a younger player with potential.

      1. He’s teetering on the brink of being released. I don’t think anyone is dumb enough to trade for him.

  3. What will probably be more interesting to us Phils fans is not the trade deadline itself but the plethora of roster shuffling, promotions and demotions as a result. Hopefully the August/September team will be fun to watch.

    I only hope that the culture Mackanin helped to establish in the spring is revitalized when fresh blood is brought up. In the meantime he might have to significantly raise those 50-cent fines.

    1. Coming up later this week on the one year anniversary of Ryne Sandberg’s resignation. These Phillies’ June swoons seem to get managers unnerved.

      1. Romus you just brought my Dad back to life if only for a few seconds haha . . He always used to break my “baseballs” about how once June comes around the Phillies always seem to struggle and would call it their “June Swoon” . . .Thank you for that. (He actually passed away the winter of 2008, never got a chance to rub in the 2008 WS Championship)

  4. I am wondering if the Phillies and MAtt Klentak will emulate the Cardinals and decide to send Franco back to LHV, as the Cardinals did with Wong and now just recently Grichuk. Marlins did something similar with Ozuna last year, Perhaps a dozen games with the Pigs may get Franco back on track again.

    1. That would send a message not only to Franco but all the young prospects. The “I’ve made it” attitude should be nipped in the bud.

    2. For me it would depend on what’s going on behind the scenes. If his attitude is good and he is working hard with the coaches I say leave him up and allow him to work through it at this level.

      Of course if the coaches think he got a bit to full of himself and is becoming lazy then by all means a dose of some AAA ball again would be a good thing.

      I was at the game Saturday and saw so many head scratchers. Asche leads off the game and swings at the first pitch.

      Segura steals second with 2 outs andf Eickhoff already behind on Goldschmidt Pete opts not to walk Goldy and boom HR.

  5. Not sure where this would fall in likelihood scale but I wouldn’t be surprised if perhaps a good will deal were made with an AL club where Howard is traded gratis. Just a gesture to graciously move on without releasing him. Then the other team has no sentimental obligation, just DH vs rhp, pinch hitting, say goodbye….Baltimore or Tampa might be options.

    1. Why would any AL team want to sacrifice a 25-man roster spot to help the Phillies retire Howard gracefully?

  6. We’ve reached that point in the season when Mackanin puts names in a hat, shakes it, and makes the lineup. Sad….

    Can’t wait until Aug 1.

        1. The biggest problem with this team is obviously the hitting. Overall, their approach at the plate is terrible and hitters such as Herrera, Galvis, Franco and Joseph have all regressed significantly. I don’t even know who the hitting coach is, but I am surprised that he still has a job.

          1. I was just thinking about Milt Thompson. I don’t have any clear data, but it seems like the Phillies were never the same after they fired him. Could be wrong, though. It’s been so long.

          1. Looks like another player may be optioned down for more seasoning and getting his bat in order…the Mets are looking to send Michael Conforto down….who would have thought watching him hit last year.
            He and Maikel Franco have almost identical slashes with Franco having one more HR.

    1. I posted this list of Cubans signed since 2011, when the influx started to catch on. As you can se….a vast majority of them have not quite worked out as expected.
      José Abreu*****
      Osmel Aguila-Phillies a few weeks ago
      Dariel Álvarez
      Erisbel Arruebarrena
      Roberto Baldoquin
      Yenier Bello
      Daniel Carbonell
      Diosdany Castillo
      Rusney Castillo
      Yoenis Céspedes*****
      Gerardo Concepción
      Jozzen Cuesta
      Odrisamer Despaigne
      Aledmys Díaz
      Adonis García
      Miguel Alfredo González
      Alexander Guerrero
      Dalier Hinojosa
      Andy Ibañez
      Raisel Iglesias
      Raudel Lazo
      Yoan Moncada
      Héctor Olivera
      Orlando Pérez
      Yasiel Puig*****
      Roberto Carlos Ramírez
      Victor Rivas
      Omar Luis Rodriguez
      Reinier Roibal
      Misael Siverio
      Jorge Soler*****
      Yasmany Tomás*****
      Henry Urrutia

      1. $6.1M – 3 million inset slot. No wonder we signed Stephen too.

        VV starts for Reading Wed night for rehab assignment. Thinks he’ll only need one but I would take more time.

  7. Great start Herandez and bat him leadoff after giving him wk end off. Galvis bats 2nd with a 210 BA they should be your 7 and 8 hole hitters. Keep Blanco , Goebbel, Asche in the lineup with Blanco . Mets , Pitt are dropping like rocks.

  8. I dont have a subscriptiin to BA but I saw a report that the Phils plan to sign 5 players July 2 to 500k + contracts each. Ive heard Morales and B Gonzalez…do we know the other 3?

  9. Franco is doing his best to play himself out of the Phils future plans. Not sure if a trip to LHV is the right fix, but he needs to do something to right the ship. Fast.

    1. Last season it was Ozuna, this season it is Wong, Grichuk and soon to be Conforto all with similar circumstances as for lack of production and each had some time for realignment at triple A..
      Franco could be next.

        1. Not sure that Franco will ever hit above .260 but we’ve seen him shorten his swing go the other way previously. My concern is strictly from the neck up. Same for Herrera though he’s more of a natural bad ball hitter.

    2. Difficult to evaluate hitters when the entire line-up is terrible since guys start trying to do too much.

      Never thought that Franco was middle of the order hitter but if he can play solid D at 3b and maintain .260 with 15-20 hrs per year he will be fine hitting 6th in a good line-up.

      Right now, he’s totally miscast hitting 3rd or 4th.

      1. Don’t buy into “trying to do too much” excuse even a little bit. You can either hit or your can’t. What other guys in the line up are doing is irrelevant.

        Agree he should be in the 5 range but they don’t have any offensive players outside of Herrera.

        1. Your point makes total sense if the game was played on a computer screen. Guys try too much all the time! No matter what level some guys are trying to hit a grand slam on every pitch even with nobody on base. Game played by humans will make human mistakes!

      2. I TOTALLY don’t agree with your statement. He is a fourth hitter. Where do you come up with your logic?? based on what? How many sixth hitters hit thirty homeruns> Do you know what Stanton lifetime average is? 263. is he a four hitter??? The kid isn’t a 15 homerun hitter. everyone forgets he is 23 on a bad offense team. trying to kill every pitch Once he realize he isn’t the whole team. I bet anyone money he will become a allstar. saw too much of this kid. I Have seen him struggle. then he figures it out. and bang he is the player everyone thought. And the two people who agree with you 3up can bet me anything on what this kid is in two years. I will lay odds..

  10. You can see the drop in Herrera’s BB, and that may be attributed to trying too hard. And, as the BBs drop, the BA has dropped right along with it.

  11. I don’t know what was more depressing – the USA getting pantsed last night by Argentina or Nola’s continued inability to get anyone out.

    The Twins? Really??

    1. Herrera makes the catch in CF just off the tip of his glove and Galvis makes a clean throw to Joseph at first and the damage is limited.
      But that doesn’t hide the fact he is getting hit and squared up pretty good by the hitters.
      Maybe growing pains.
      —————————————————-

      And some of this also has to fall on rocco.
      Ever since last week he posted about Nola’s lower than usual velo for a top of the rotation guy and it will not play out in the long run…Nola has been in a tailspin.
      Nola must have read rocco’s posting and is squeezing the ball too hard to over-compensate.

      1. Lmao. Romus I don’t used stats a lot as you know. But that drop in velo. plus he is mostly using two pitches. 58 percent fastball. 34 curveballs and only 8 changeup. think he should used the changeup more or come up with a slider. just my opinion. You can see when he was going good. He still hangs that curve ball sometimes. I Am not big on using that percentage of curveballs. you tend to hand them. especially when you start to get tried. That’s why I just never seen him like others do. If he comes up with another pitch or develops his changeup. he might be okay. but right now with these percentages of curves and fastball. I don’t see it. but I could be wrong..Romus by the way I do tend to judge guys when they are going there best.

  12. I know this will be in the next box score recap but it looks like VV is perfectly fine. Said he felt great and wants to rejoin Philly for his next start. Apparently up to 97mph tonight and also he “gushed” about Jorge Alfaro (Per Corey Seidman).

  13. There’s an article by Roob’s 25 Random ‘ s pts. The Phillies offense maybe the worst ever . The team obp is .279 the last Time a team obp was that bad it was 51 yrs ago for a full season. The only other teams under .290 since 1970 are the 72 Padres .283 and 81 Jays .286 .The 1965 Mets are the 2016 Phillies are the only teams in the last 100 yrs with obp below .280 .3 DURING THERE 6 -25 there OBP is .216 there BA .217 there .OPS .630 Horrible .The Phillies are hitting .213 at home that’s the lowest Home BA in the 100 yrs . There home OPS .608 ufff. They have a Metrics departure so everyone knows. This has the ownerships name on it , Matt Klentak . Macphail , Mack so on . I know there in a rebuild but the players on the team can’t hit , field , steal a base or walk .So the Furture players that are on the team now aren’t learning or progressing .the Prospects that will come up in this environment of bad baseball.

  14. The thing that gets me Mack puts in David Hernandez after he was rocked yesterday. He Threw 32 pitches yesterday bring in Neris , I know Bailey is hurt now plus Hernandez throw 27 pitches so there goes pitchers 2 for tommorrow. MACK looks done spent , Bourjos forgot how to D .

  15. About Nola first 25 starts 3.12 Era last 3 15.18 Era he just turned 23 . Sometimes pitchers have down turns Cliff Lee , Doc , Verlander all had them . Franco has walks 5 times in the last 2 games he’s starting to layoff the spinners . Asche driving the baseball again let’s hope he keeps it up.

  16. Mets have more trouble Thor and Matz are on a pitch count . There offense is almost as bad as the Phillies and there D is avg at best . There slow 13 sb 9 caught there as old as the were 2 yrs ago. They do have power pitchers that’s a cure all once there all healthy and don’t have to face KC or any good hitting FB team. Plus once all of the power pitchers hit the market there’ll need a truck full of money .

      1. rocco…..to prevent your head from exploding….tap each side with each hand and point to the heavens! El Torito!

  17. I had a dream….the year 2020:

    C – Jorge Alfaro (occasionally 1b, rf)
    Austin Bossart (best backstop on roster)
    IF – JP Crawford (team captain)
    Maikel Franco (by then, team nearing decision on contract extension?)
    Freddy Galvis (this team’s Blanco)
    Cole Stobbe (bench player but perhaps next starting 3bman? Franco to 1b?)
    Jhailyn Ortiz (new all or nothing 1bman/late inning power threat)
    Scott Kingery (Polanco 2.0 +speed -avg)
    OF – Aaron Altherr (4th outfielder)
    Nick Williams (rf)
    Mickey Moniak (cf)
    Andrew Knapp (lf/1b/emergency C)
    Cornelius Randolph (lf)

    I know…..where is Odubel, Cozens, Quinn, Stephen and others? Hey, they weren’t in the dream. BUT you never know, rosters may expand thru next CBA and DH may be a reality by then as well.

  18. They will find room for Cozens he on its way 30/30 season he still might hit .300. The more he walks the more the FO smiles. C and Willams are LF , right now Cozens has the arm for Rf. 1st baseman how about TJ , Hoskins, hall, Encarnacion the Phillies are sitting on 2 Billion dollars trust me Franco signed. Ramos just was called up the start of some changes up top.

  19. Funny the Phillies are finally getting good at bats . Taking walks are a great sign And not chasing balls . Now if they could just learn to run the bases and field .Herandez needs to hit 7th or 8th. They did another lefty reliever.

  20. I been listening to Ben Davis lately. He seems to question Rupps reason for calling a pitch. Now the story comes out about his game calling. Yesterday or day before. I remember someone saying that elfin pitched better with Chooch. Tommy green said sometimes you comfortable with a veteran. He also said Rupp is still learning. interesting. I thought defense was rupp thing. Even though at Texas , I thought he was a good hitter. especially going to right and right center

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