2015 Draft Discussion: Day Three

Here’s the thread to continue talking about the 2015 First Year Player Draft.

So far, we have –

  1. (10) – SS Cornelius Randolph, Griffin HS (GA), L/R, 5’11, 205 lbs, 06/02/97.
  2. (48) – 2B  Scott Kingery,  Arizona (JR), R/R, 5’10, 180 lbs, 04/29/94.
  3. (83) – SS Lucas Williams, Dana Hills HS (CA), R/R, 6’1, 180, 8/9/96.
  4. (114) – 1B Kyle Martin, South Carolina (SR), L/L, 6’2, 240, 11/13/92.
  5. (144) – LHP Bailey Falter, Chino Hills HS (CA), R/L, 6’4, 175, 4/24/97.
  6. (174) – LHP Tyler Gilbert, USC (JR), L/L, 6’3, 190, 12/22/93.
  7. (204) – RHP Luke Leftwich, Wofford College (JR), L/R, 6’3, 205, 6/9/94.
  8. (234) – OF Greg Pickett, Legend HS (CO), L/R, 6’4, 215, 10/30/96.
  9. (264) – CF Mark Laird, LSU (JR), L/L, 6’2, 180, 3/29/93.
  10. (294) – 3B Joshua Tobias, Florida (SR), R/R, 5’9, 195, 11/23/92.

The draft will conclude Wednesday with Rounds 11-40.  Coverage will start at 12:00 pm ET, live on MLB.com.

I APOLOGIZE TO OUR READERS FOR THE BEHAVIOR THAT TOOK PLACE HERE YESTERDAY. I WAS FOLLOWING THE DRAFT AND OTHER OUTLETS RATHER THAN POLICING OUR DAY TWO THREAD. I HAVE REVIEWED YESTERDAY’S COMMENTS AND REQUESTED THAT THE TWO PARTICIPANTS WHO SHOWED THE WORST BEHAVIOR ATTACKING EACH OTHER AND OTHERS BE BLOCKED FROM OUR SITE. I HOPE TODAY’S DISCUSSION IS MORE CIVILIZED.

178 thoughts on “2015 Draft Discussion: Day Three

  1. Can we keep the discussion to the prospects and limit the snippy comments of each posters point of view? We’ve somehow fallen into the Free AEC trap. You can agree or disagree but we all know it’s just someone’s opinion.

    1. great point, bellman. What ever happend to him anyway? He showed up right around when I stopped posting a couple years ago. Seemed like he crapped all over every thread or something.

      1. He shows up on Fangraphs sometimes … I think his ire is now directed at Middleton instead of David $$$ Montgomery.

      2. Allan Eric Carson, (FreeAEC…when he was incarcerated) I believe is his name, is on philly.com Phjilies’ boards very often…..now as handle ‘Cursor” with an arrow. Seems to irritate many about bringing up owner John Middleton and how he is ‘stealing money’. But at times, does make a good point.
        Sad..

  2. Still waiting for a catcher. Seems the phils are thin there. 3rd round pick is somewhat curious with Crawford hopefully our SS for many years pick is confusing.

      1. I agree with that philosophy, but I don’t think that it what the Phillies are doing. At best the Williams pick is a cost saving measure to sign other picks. Or perhaps he is a real hidden gem. He certqainly wasn’t someone who others had there eye on or had much of a track record.

    1. Really shouldn’t evaluate picks based on where some of our prospects are. Pick the highest player on your board. A guy who is already a few years into the system really doesn’t matter – we’re not in football here.

    2. They could always fill that gap through int’l signings too….important to remember that the June Draft is just one part of the player acquisition process.

    3. Phils plan to play him at third, according to Almaraz: “This is somebody we feel is a really good athlete, with the ability to hit. He can run, he can throw, he possesses really good tools. We see him more as a third baseman that’s going to have some type of power. We were really pleased to get him. … Those bats were coming off the board pretty quick.”

      Here’s what Cormican wrote at The Good Phight: “The Phillies will be buying out his commitment to Cal Poly (he’s a smart kid). Luke was also a starting Wide Receiver for the Varsity football team as a Junior before deciding to focus solely on baseball as a Senior. He’s a good all-around athlete and seems to know how to hit. He was named Perfect Game California World Series MVP last fall. Given his numbers, clean swing and track record, it is a little odd he’s so far off the radar and rankings. I’d lean toward thinking the Phillies may have uncovered a gem. It will be interesting to see where he plays on the Diamond, as he doesn’t look natural in those short clips in the middle infield. He also Pitches, so a move to Catcher seems kind of logical, though risky with a high pick. He’d have the speed, arm and hit tool for Center, so that’s also possible.”

      Here are some comments from Williams and his.coach (Tom Faris) from a story in the Orange County Register: “The senior said the Phillies organization started contacting him on Monday. Philadelphia was one of the first to start watching Williams regularly during the 2015 spring season. Faris thought Williams had an opportunity to go sooner than the third round, given the high number of shortstops on Day One. Faris said the Atlanta Braves also expressed interest in Williams as a catcher.”

      And then there is roccom’s insta-analysis: “I looked him up on the Google machine and couldn’t find anything, so he must suck. Fire Amaro.” And then his more in-depth report after 15 seconds of YouTube video review: “He looks like he can’t reach first base from short when he throws the ball. Fire Amaro.”

      1. What a lie. I never said he must suck, I thought on his clips he didn’t look like a third round kid . looked like he couldn’t make throw, look it up see if what I said isn’t the same of what they are saying, and he isn’t the guy I couldn’t find, I said there is no video. omg I love how you try to put words in my mouth but I am so proud cause this proved out what I was saying , looking at his clips. never said fire amaro, but I would love if they did.

        1. (Since this already seems to be starting again.)

          The day two thread was unreadable because of this type of back-and-forth. If you don’t like something a poster says, don’t reply to it.

      2. rocco’s reports are more of the abridged version….get to the point don’t waste time.
        ‘Forgetaboutit 🙂

      3. Lucas Williams reminds me of the Phillies drafting Kiel Fisher. He was also a HS infielder from California that didn’t appear on the top prospect lists and also had a scholarship from Cal Poly. Weird.

  3. The thing I got out of the mllb comments is a lot of these high school kids, don’t project at short in next level. some get bigger and will move to third or outfiled most times I believe the best players on hs teams are shortstops. where they project in college and pros, most times is different

    1. I agree again with you Rocco SS’s usually are the best players in high school and have often demonstrated the athleticism to move anywhere else on the diamond.

      1. Yup…I’ve always joked that I would draft SS with every single position player pick and go from there for that very reason. If you can handle SS, you can pretty much be taught any other position (catcher being perhaps the lone exception but even that is a possibility. Catcher has such a unique skillset and development arc anyway though)

        SS requires speed or at the very least a quick first step, a strong arm. Even a guy like Galvis who wont win you any footraces has a great reaction/first step. I wouldn’t toss him in CF by any means but he could (and has shown he can) field 3B, 2B, 1B, LF, RF with no real issues. His initial conversion to 2B several years back showed how well a natural SS can adjust to another position with the utmost of ease.

        This is why I’ve been kinda surprised at just how bad Hanley has been in LF for the RedSox. Granted, LF in Fenway is one of the toughest LFs in baseball but he has been atrocious so far out there for them. Learning to play the Monster can take time though…and learning to adjust from a quick SS snap throw to a longer OF throw after years of reps takes time too obviously. And, of course Hanley has never been a great defensive SS. I wasn’t expecting him to be great right away but I figured maybe average to slightly below average. He’s been pretty much one of the worst LFs in baseball through the first 2 months.

    2. Rocco: You don’t need my support, but I just wanted you to know I am in your corner. I think you have a pretty good understanding of the game as well as strong opinions to which you are entitled. To hell with those who don’t want you to express your opinion.

    3. His coach said that he didn’t have the arm for ss that made for it by getting his feet set up quickly.he played where ever the team need him he didn’t like playing catcher. This was the first yr he didn’t play football.the thing that gets me is that he hit .315 which is low for a senior in hs. Maybe a pitcher he did that too.

  4. Our first pick in the 11th round should tell us about where we stand financially after the first 10 rounds. If its a college guy we probably have used any pool savings to sign Randolph and Pickett. If its a higher profile HS guys we have some allocation to play with.

  5. Matt Breen’s article has quotes from J Almaraz on the following HS kids.

    Luke Williams is being projected as a 3rd baseman. Believe he has a high ceiling. Has ability to hit the ball now with some type of power.

    Bailey Falter according to JA ” has a bright future and has a chance to be a front-line starter.”

    Greg Pickett surprised the Phillies that he was still there in 8th round. Miss. State commit had caused some teams to believe that he would not sign. Phillies stayed on him and got some info that lead them to select him. At the end of the article JA says that they want to get him to GCL pretty quickly.

    1. It’d be great if they were able to sign Pickett by going overslot with some of the savings from those SR picks (and hopefully from Randolph signing below slow too…though I’m not holding my breath on him with Boras as his “advisor”).

      1. Heard last night on telecast from Tom Mc, that Martin and Pickett were in town last week and hit homers into the second deck at CBP. All were impressed with their power.

        1. The old “raw power that doesn’t show in games” chestnut doesn’t sound promising to me, but hey, I think the same thing dropped Stanton into the second round. (Obligatory mention: LGJ). Hopefully they already have an idea of what it’s going to take to sign these guys and get them into short season.

          Overall, I like the draft. Hit tools must be valued, and the Phillies are finally showing an understanding of this.

          1. It’s ok to go after those types of players (raw power) in the rounds they did yesterday. Not so much when you are selecting them in the first few rounds.

            1. But my understanding is that the difference between Stanton/LGJ and the guys we drafted is that the guys we drafted can actually hit, even if the raw power doesn’t show up in games. With Stanton and LGJ, their power showed up when they connected, but they didn’t connect often.

            2. I was referring more specifically to Pickett, whose calling card at this point appears to be raw power. You are correct that hit tool is abundant with the first few guys they took.

          2. Here’s the thing. If a guy has big-time raw tools, AND has a good hit tool, he generally doesn’t make it past the first round. Later on, you’re going to get a guy with some warts. Then you have to pick your poison, and hope your development staff can turn an imperfect prospect into a valuable player.

            While much ire has been directed at the Phillies’ drafting record of late, this is difficult to separate from their failures in coaching and development. I’m personally highly suspicious of their ability to develop raw players, which makes their (hopefully former) strategy all the more ineffective.

            When you’re not good at teaching athletes to hit, you do well to draft players who already know how. But this is a concession to incompetence, not something to be celebrated, since it means drafting more polished players with lower ceilings. You’re not going to get too many stars that way.

        2. I saw a TV interview with Martin and his father. They are lifelong Phillies fans. I think the father was born in Philly area.
          The Braves were on him and texted him after the Phillies picked him to say they screwed up. They were going to take him in the same round ( I think it was 6 to 8 picks after Phils).

        3. Only time will tell but at the end of this draft I can only be enthusiastic and here is why. Gillick and Amaro saw some flaws in the scouting and saw an opportunity to convince Monty it was time to move on from Marti. He was with the Phillies since 1992.

          I don’t think Monty is quick to fire anyone and not that it is good to be that way it allows for too many cooks to be in the kitchen at the same time.

          Next they went outside the orginzation and looked at a team with a pretty good track record of scouting and drafting players that make it to the big leagues regularly. They also read a transitional opportunity with Wren moving out and Hart moving in to jump on Almaraz.

          Many probably don’t know that Almaraz was mentored by Tony Robello. Almaraz directly signed Johnny Cueto, Adam Dunn, Julio Tehran, and Christian Bethancourt.

          As I said before if you do something good for the Phillies you have a lifetime office in the bank and probably a seat at the discussion table. I think successful organizations have a short linear line from the top to the bottom. The Phillies have always had a long zig zagging line which is not conducive to success.

          It’s not that any of these guys are morons or don’t know what they are doing but red tape and obstruction to ones ideas, philosophy or direction breeds frustration and frustration leads to bad decisions.

          Wolever would take the Wetzler incident back if he could. He had no history of that type of behavior prior to that and its not about making excuses for the guy its about understanding human behavior and the psychology behind a decision like that.

          One of Steve Jobs more famous quotes was “we don’t hire smart people so we can tell them what to do rather we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do” I don’t think this ownership group ever shared that thought process.

          1. This is a good point. Whether or not the change produce good results, the existence of (apparent) accountability, and a change in approach following failure, is a VERY good sign for the organization.

            We can critique individuals all we like, but ultimately success will derive from changing the dysfunctional corporate culture that put those individuals in place.

        4. That report made me cringe a little. Based on past history with the Phillies, guys who are trumped up as showing prodigious power during a workout or batting practice generally have crappy contact skills against real pitchers in real games (see Greene Jr, Larry).

          It’s easy to fall in love with a guy with upper deck power. Hopefully Martin and Pickett can actually hit a little.

          1. Like I stated above, it’s a lot different when you are drafting these types of guys in rounds 8-10 as opposed to 1-3. This isn’t a hard concept.

            1. Regardless – Larry Greene wasn’t even a round 8-10 talent which was probably the point of his post.

          2. What intrigues me about Martin is that he walks more than he strikes out, which is rare for a potential power hitter.

          3. Pickett is no LGJ, not even close. He can flat out hit and has power. And, most importantly, he has an insane work ethic.

        5. romus I always have trouble with this. say pickett doesn’t sign, don’t they lose that slot money and cant use it for overslot signing later in draft. Like when they didn’t sign those two kids last year. The one who became a doctor. I forget there names.

          1. Correct. If you don’t sign one of your top ten, you lose the slot money. If you sign one for less than slot, you can apply the savings elsewhere.

      2. Nepp, I wanted to apologize for my dumb post earlier today. I hope we can still converse in a civil fashion and I too want to avoid a repeat of yesterday. Peace.

  6. I saw some report yesterday that Corny is signing for $2.4 Million, a savings of $800,000 slot wise. Is that a legit report? We seem to get a lot of personal attacks at draft time, and I agree, none of us knows and only time will tell, so hopefully, that eases up today. I was very happy to see James file a report last night.

    1. That would be great …

      The Denver Post had a brief write up about Pickett getting drafted. He said he was communicating regularly with the Phils, who told him they were going to take him after the third round. He also sounds happy to have been drafted:

      “The Phillies had been talking to me and telling me they were going to take me after their third-round pick,” Pickett said. “I’m just relieved right now to have been picked.”

      Communication + positive reaction to being drafted tells me that a number already exists, and he’ll sign quickly. Just my gut.

    2. That would be great, but if that’s the case, why hire Boras as an agent/advisor? Does any client of Boras ever sign for under slot?

    3. 2.4 million at eighteen years old. plus a college fund I would think. not bad way to start life.

      1. I’ll be stunned if Randolph gets 2.4. I suspect he’s getting full slot value 3.23 or maybe even more.

  7. We look at the names yesterday as they are picked, and immediately form an opinion. That is natural, I guess, and there are some here who automatically think the Phils screwed it up. But I saw Johnny A.’s comments early this morning, and his excitement got me excited. They seem to be very confident in signing Pickett, and that is a terrific move, if it happens. Falter, who needs probably 25 lbs., has tremendous command, and if he improves his strength and adds MPH to the fastball, can be something. So, I feel better today than yesterday, and I was not paid off by anybody. My organization complaints will wait for another thread.

    1. I am tired of watching pitchers down here who have difficulty finding the strike zone. If the organization is going to draft/sign pitchers with superior command and control, who have projectable velocity, I’m all for it.

  8. I am starting to kinda like the Falter pick. A young, projectable lefty with good control doesn’t sound too bad. This is one of those picks that we could be really happy with in 3 years, but if he doesn’t pan out then he doesn’t set our organization back. I can’t be mad about going boom/bust in the 5th round.

  9. I like the Greg Pickett pick. His size and age suggest that he could have legitimate plus plus power before all is said and done. Apparently the Phillies had workout with him just prior to the draft and it was a great workout. If the Phillies invested a top 10 pick in this kid, you have to believe they think they can sign him. This pick gets me excited.

  10. I think the whole class looks great. Granted, it is a weak year and it is easy to get overly excited but you can see the changes in the draft process.

    Just getting more raw power into the system was a huge need along with more hitters so in that respect the organization is on the right track.

    During the offseason they added pitching, the MLB draft adds hitting and raw power. We have Ortiz signing in a month.

    Outside of Crawford what the system lacks is high-end talent and we may get a couple of pieces from Hamels this summer.

  11. Phillies 11th round pick: Edgar Cabral Mt. San Antonio College (CA) Catcher R/R J2 — 5’11” 210lbs DOB: 09/12/95

  12. I think mlb.com just didn’t post it. It shows the Cubs at 353 and the Reds at 355, but nothing in between

    1. Average over 10 strikeouts per nine innings. A college closer. I will take that we need them, too many blown saves down in minors

    1. just a quick note, I responded to your medical questions at the bottom of yesterdays draft thread.

    1. There was a nice article on him in the paper the other day. I’m not sure of the competition but the kid put up some terrific numbers.

  13. coppola looks like he has a ton of speed. also 11 outfield assists. hit 327 this year. They seem to me to be looking for speed . besides the hit tool.

  14. Noticed virtually all teams selecting college players so far today. When does the reach start for High schoolers with signability issues?

  15. I kinda like the approach of getting all these pure hitting speed guys in today’s MLB. With the crack down on PED’s there’s just a limited number of pure hitting power guys out there. The game is changing a little bit. Look at a team like the Pirates. Their top 4 Polanco, Harrison, McCutch and Marte…every one of them hits a single it could be an automatic double with their speed and ability to steal. That’s part of the reason I am so excited to see Roman Quinn get to the big league’s soon.

    Don’t get me wrong…I’d rather have the pure power but pure power is being limited a little bit with the PED crackdown. If the game is changing, we need to adapt and speed certainly helps.

      1. with such esteemed alumni as Shaq (went after he retired and got a graduate degree) and Flo Rida

        1. Florida Atlantic and the “U” better watch out for the upcoming guy in the area….the Barry U Buccaneers

  16. Greg Brodzinski picked by the phils. A local kid from Bishop Eustace high. Saw him play a lot. He can hit, nout sure about his catching ability.

  17. Little trivia, 17th pick Kenny Koplove, Duke, local kid from Philly..think his older brother, Mike from Chestnut Hill Academy and Northwestern, pitched as a reliever for the D-Backs way back when.

    1. Oh well….he did have a few years in the majors.
      I remember him as an all-star 12-year old shortstop in a South Philly Little League back in the late 80s.

  18. Kenny koplove lives four blocks from me. His older brother played against my son,. His dad was running a great program in south philly, based out of dvaa. which is right down the street from me I don’t know if he still does, This is a kid who grew up a Phillies fan, didn’t know he was that good. to be drafted. Yes his brother pitched in major. off and on I believe. watching his older brother when he was 18 never thought he had major league ability. nice story for this family.

    1. rocco…there you go, DV…..remember it well…both sons played there way back when….one if the first LLs to play under the lights back in the 70s/80s.

  19. I APOLOGIZE TO OUR READERS FOR THE BEHAVIOR THAT TOOK PLACE HERE YESTERDAY. I WAS FOLLOWING THE DRAFT AND OTHER OUTLETS RATHER THAN POLICING OUR DAY TWO THREAD. I HAVE REVIEWED YESTERDAY’S COMMENTS AND REQUESTED THAT THE TWO PARTICIPANTS WHO SHOWED THE WORST BEHAVIOR ATTACKING EACH OTHER AND OTHERS BE BLOCKED FROM OUR SITE. THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR PERSONAL ATTACKS. I HOPE TODAY’S DISCUSSION REMAINS MORE CIVILIZED. THANK YOU.

    1. Jim, will you be providing a draft tracker to track bonuses? That was a huge plus in this site the past few years. Thank you for keeping the site going!!!

      1. Yes. I’ve been spending a lot of time the past couple days trying to duplicate the tracker. I think I have it figured out. I’m going to publish a tracker attachment through Google Sheets. Hope it works as well as those in the past.

  20. Lots of college seniors and a 5th year senior too. A lot of them have good size. Interesting draft so far but at least something different with the emphasis on hitting early in the draft.

  21. Still most curious about Stewart, Will. The only HS prospect we drafted today. Can’t really find anything on him. What other sites are people using to follow the draft?

    1. His dream is to be a student athlete don’t sound like he will sign. Talks about going to college and then some day be a wildlife something.

  22. This board, even with the back and forth which got out of hand, is better than the Middleton Felony fraud stuff I see on every post for every article every single day since January. I cant even look at the board anymore.

  23. I agree that this is still the best site around. Others are unbearable, and it gets personal sometimes, but a lot of really interesting opinions are posted here that I look forward to even when I disagree. There will be a lot of different opinions come trade time!

    1. 2009 – 40 (1217) Robert Amaro R/R 3B Penn Charter HS (PA)
      2011 – 47 (1441) Andrew Amaro R/R 2B Penn Charter HS (PA) same Amaro as this year, I assume.

      1. Clearly there are too many rounds in the MLB draft if Amaro and company can fritter away picks on relatives of Phillies employees. And while I get that these late rounds are pretty much throw-away picks, I don’t understand why the Phillies (or any organization) would invite even the perception of nepotism.

        1. Every organization does it. The Angels drafted Mike Trout’s girlfriend’s brother. How’s that for nepotism?

          1. I Saw almost every team did it yesterday. cardinals drafted the owners grandson, texas drafted a scouts kid. just a nice jesture on the teams part, for a person in organization

        2. Clearly we forget a guy by the name Mike Piazza went to the Dodgers as a favor from Tommy Lasorda to the Piazza’s.

        3. Dude, what planet are you living on? Every team does this, every year, sometimes multiple times.

          1. I’m aware that other teams do it, though you’ll have to prove to me that every team does it. Anyway, that doesn’t really change anything for me. It just shows that there are too many rounds in the draft, when the last several rounds are just a joke.

            And what exactly is the point of drafting a relative of a team employee? Just for kicks? It’s pointless to me.

  24. Phillies select local kid from DELCO:…better late then never.
    As harry use to say….Mooor…aan….dineeeee.
    ihttp://www.gametimepa.com/delaware/ci_27953873/baseball-garnet-valleys-morandini-carries-familiar-name

    1. Didn’t tom mc carthy marry some newscaster. Cant believe it was that long ago he has a kid that old.

  25. romus just read koplove and his dad went to Texas wieners to celebrate. On Snyder ave. he lives in packer park and can see cbp from his yard. he will sign soon he said not going back to duke. how cool is it to get drafted by your hometown team. who’s field you can see from your back yard.

  26. Greg Pickett‏@GregPick25
    I’ve agreed to a contract. I can’t wait to be apart of the @Phillies organization!

    There you have it…Greg Pickett already signed! I’m already very happy with this draft!

  27. read the posts here but never have posted myself. anyway, that is great about Pickett.

    was looking to see what i could find on Dylan Bosheers drafted in round 15 and found this on baseballdraftreport.com
    I made the choice to headline this piece with Matt Beaty, but I could just have easily opted to kick it off with a couple hundred words on the bizarrely underrated Tennessee Tech SR SS/2B Dylan Bosheers, who is ranked one spot ahead of the big bat of Beaty due to his almost equal bat but clearly more impressive defensive upside. Quite simply, Bosheers was a baffling omission from last year’s draft. He’s done everything asked from him as a college player and then some (.368/.444/.577 with 27 BB/32 K in 234 AB last year), and he has at least two clear average or better professional tools (defense, speed). He’s not just a slap and dash bat, either; he’s got an approach geared towards driving the ball and he’s capable of using the whole field as well as almost any middle infielder in the country. A future pro shortstop with average speed (plays up thanks to his smarts on the bases) and meaningful pop that walks as much as he strikes out has a place in the draft’s top fifteen rounds. I could see him deservedly getting picked in the same range I predicted for Beaty (8th/9th/10th) as a money-saving option senior sign for a smart club that emphasizes college production. Depending on how things shake out the rest of the way, he might wind up even higher than that on my personal board. I like players with the upside of being quality big league infielders, what can I say? I’m not great at analogies, but I think something like [Alex Bregman : Blake Trahan as Blake Trahan : Dylan Bosheers] works.

  28. Very pleased about Pickett, and it shows that the scouts did a really good job. He was on a lot of teams’ radar, but signability issues dropped him. Clearly the Phils area guy had a rapport with him. Has anyone thought about where any of the new guys fit in the Top 20?

    1. Think I saw Matt Winkleman say on Twitter that he’d have Randolph in his Top-5 and that he really liked the Kingery pick as well.

  29. First, great draft this year, men! Second, apology accepted. The behavior on the board yesterday went beyond talking about a great pitching arm or an above-average dong. But we’re a self-policing group for the most part. Again, great draft.

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