Open Discussion: Week of May 4th

Here’s an open discussion thread so the minor league posts don’t get cluttered with Phillies’ talk and other topics.

Jonathan Papelbon made 3 appearances and finished 3 games this week, converting his only save opportunity.  After 26 games, Papelbon has made 10 appearances, 9 games finished (5 saves, 4 non-saves).

Some other random stuff to light the fire –

  • Chase Utley .108/.181/.217/.398 (lowest BA of any Phillie with a hit, 3 SP have higher BA – Hamels, Buchanan, and Harang)
  • Phillies .221/.276/.324/.600 (worst in NL, still)
  • The batting averages of the Phillies starting eight from Sunday’s game after completion – .239, .108, .186, .193, .191, .271, .200, .167
  • Sorta makes Seve Gonzalez’ victory even more improbable.
  • Hard to believe that Dom Brown couldn’t crack that line up.
  • Does Utley have any options remaining?

66 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of May 4th

  1. —Yankees sweep Sox.
    —Sox pitching ERA pretty dang high.
    —Cherington now possibly adds another name to the Sox ‘untouchable ‘ list….Margot…. with earlier untouchables as Bogearts, Betts, Swihart and Ed Rodriguez.

    Ruben needs to step back from Boston and let it be known other teams could be major players, including Brian Cashman’s team in the Bronx as the forerunner.
    That should get Cherington’s attention.

    1. The entire Boston Red Sox minor league system is untouchable and I hope their season falls apart due to lack of pitching. It would serve them right if we traded Hamels to another team and left them high and dry.

  2. I am not a fan of Amaro at all, but I do like that he wont trade a guy just to trade him. The Red Sox offers are laughable. Teams overvaluing their prospects is way out of control now, and im fine with not settling for a travis lee-omar daal like package this time.

    Like last year (or was it 2 yrs ago) when the Tigers refused to give up anything for for papelbon, then got bounced from the playoffs due to poor bullpen performances. Let the Red Sox try to succeed with that rotation.

    On paper, LA, Chi, Stl should all be interested….wonder if Houston buys into their own hype at all and becomes interested to compete this year.

    1. I think the pendulum may swing back the other way soon on overvaluing prospects and back a little toward free agency.

      As teams around the league continue to (rightly) put greater value on youth rather than 30+ year old veterans, young stars and agents of young stars will see this and respond by going to free agency in greater numbers at the end of their arbitration years.

      When you can get younger stars through free agency, then you won’t *have* to develop them internally.

      1. You are still looking at younger guys around 27/28-years old and with the Super Two dates and delayed MLB promotions that the teams now utilize to keep longer control, those ages could tick up further.
        And then guys like Trout/Harper, who push themselves into the MLB before 21-years old…are so good they may never enter into a free agent status since clubs will lock them.
        However, seems pitchers are the most valued free agents these days vs positional players

  3. I never disliked the Red Sox, but this year I find myself rooting against them. I know it is illogical, but I seem to have taken their lousy offers personally! Anyway, I am enjoying it when they lose.

  4. Agree with both of you.
    Tired of hearing the Boston spin on their dealing with the Phillies on Hamels, and their coveted prospects.

  5. How many prospect who were “untouchable” have we heard of so far. the third baseman for tigers castellano. so far he is another asche. he was going to hit 40 homeruns and just be a all-star I keep hearing how great these guys are. but most fail. so I am hoping ruben doesn’t cave in. Right now all we hear is Boston. but I still think you have to look at dodgers ,they will do whatever it takes, giving up Dee Gordon was a great move for marlins. I think and its only a opinion, dodgers just want to win and if they give up a great prospects, they can buy another. Houston and Chicago if they are close will try anything to win it, cause its been so long , there are other teams. I cant see us settling for boston lesser prospects just doesn’t help us, so hopefully ruben and gillick stay the course

    1. Well rocco…the Dodgers are currently smoking the amateur free agent market for a couple more Cubans, so they could let go of a few of their premier guys…..but Pederson, Saeger and Urias are probably not one of them. So not sure if they have anything viable to offer.

  6. Top Five Reasons Why the Phillies sent Severino Gonzales down right after he made the necessary adjustments following an awful first start and gave them an impressive win.

    5. They want to make sure that Sean O’Sullivan and his career ERA of just under 6 doesn’t miss a single start.
    4. They are going for the worst record in baseball to get the top picks in the draft.
    3. Amaro doesn’t want to be accused of having too many Latin American players on the club.
    2. The Iron Pigs are even worse than the Phillies and need him more.
    1. They don’t want him standing in the way of Aumont becoming a Phillies starting pitcher.

    1. Is Buster Olney and other Boston area writers get paid by the Red Sox? Sure seems like it with their inane articles about trading for Cole Hamels.

  7. I would love to see Pap traded first, lots of teams could use him and he looks great. Crazy thought – what if Hamels went to the Astros? For all ex Phillies,Singleton, Santana, and Villar. That would be too funny. However, I could see the Astros wiling to overpay to get a true number 1 to lead their suddenly well playing group. Who is their #2 prospect? We’re not getting Correa.

    1. ‘Who is their #2 prospect? We’re not getting Correa.’

      A guy named Dom Santana, familiar name for some reason (tic) or Mark Appel….take your pick.

  8. Actually Hamels needs to get his act together if the Phillies can count on him to be a good trade chip

    1. He’s fine. I don’t understand why people always get worked up over Cole Hamels. He’s a slow starter. It’s may. Kershaw and Lester aren’t doing much better than him… In fact Lester’s been worse to start the year.

  9. i have to believe utley has something physically wrong, seriously, may be he needs to get his eyes examined

    1. He does a few more whirly-bird swing-and-miss strike outs lately.
      But some of his hardest hit balls…have been just outs.
      I still think he can get to the .240 BA plateau and maybe .320 OBP., which means him thinking of calling it quits after the season.

      1. J roll is hitting .185 Ultey is going south and Howard is well Howard. The phillies stone wall .

  10. I don’t think he gets anywhere close to those numbers. At this point it would require a massive hitting streak.

    Maybe they wait until Franco is ready and just have Chase retire and Franco takes his place.

  11. If he gets 500 ABs, the option for next year kicks in. Starting in June, I would tell him that he is not going to get the 500. And, I am a huge Utley fan. But who needs him back here again?

    1. And on the Phillies’ radio pregame show, the focus is on Howard’s contract, the game after Howard is 2/4 and Utley 0/5. Eventually it shifts to Utley. But, when you frame it that way, it raises questions about your outlook on life.

      Ever since Utley’s injuries became serious, I’ve worried about him becoming Willie Mays on the Mets. As I wrote recently, Mike Schmidt retired in late May 1989 when he was convinced he was done. Utley is famously non-conversable, but I wish he’d talk to the other greatest infielder in the history of the franchise (the other other being Rollins).

  12. Ruf’s 3-hit night, plus his potential power bat is a clarion call for getting him into the lineup once and for all for a team that desperatetly needs run production.

  13. Is Jhailyn Ortiz the guy the Phils have been linked to? Jesse Sanchez was tweeting and said he was top international OF prospect.

    1. Yeah, (Jesse Sanchez) just put out its list of the top 2015 international free agents who will be eligible to sign on July 2nd. Jhailyn Ortiz is #1.

      Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 65 | Run: 35 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50

      Two words come to mind when Ortiz’s name is mentioned: raw power.

      Ortiz has the most raw power in the entire class, the type of power scouts have not seen from a player his age in years. The teenager puts on a show during batting practice and more importantly, he has shown the ability to hit for power in games. His home runs are legendary, and his line drives into the gaps are just as impressive.

      Some scouts have concerns about his overall athleticism and wonder if his large frame will eventually force him to switch positions from the outfield (left field) to first base. Others believe he has the tools to stay in the outfield and he will only get better on defense and as an overall hitter once he signs and is placed into a team’s academy. One thing is certain, the type of power Ortiz has does not come around very often and the team that signs him is getting a player that can not only hit home runs, but can hit them into the upper deck.

      The Phillies have expressed the most interest in Ortiz.

      1. Looks like Theo and Ned Hoyer and the Cubs are going big again like they did a few years ago….7 of the top 30 of Jesse Sanchez’ prospects are linked to the Cubs

      2. Ruben and the Phillies would be wise to make trades that also bring back some international money allocation, along with prospects.

  14. Keith Law, ESPN Insider

    This year’s draft class is indeed one of the weakest in recent memory, not just at the top of the first round, but also in specific areas that are usually deeper, such as college starting pitching and catchers of any stripe. There is, however, a lot of depth in the middle infield, and this draft seems likely to produce as many major league regulars as any class. It could also see a handful of college arms who could appear in the majors later this year, similar to the College World Series to MLB World Series path Brandon Finnegan took last season

    1. It may be one of the weakest overall due to injuries.
      Especially pitchers.
      Wasn’t there 2/3 pitchers projected to be top ten picks and developed arm trouble?
      Brady Aiken comes to mind for one.

    1. Yes, but there is no such person. Nola was a very polished college pitcher, who was said to be the closest to the majors of the guys in the 2014 draft. He won’t make it to the bigs until late this year at the earliest. We are not going to get a college pitcher out of the #10 slot in this draft who is ready to join our MLB rotation this season. If we got someone, who like Nola appears to be, who is able to join our rotation by late 2016, that would be doing very well and would make it well worth the effort to take a pitcher, rather than a hitter, with our first pick.

    2. If Kyle Tucker or Cameron are still there at ten, they would be hard to pass on.
      But also I like Ian Happ from the Bearcats, who ceiling may be a little lower then the tose two but his proximity is more so.

  15. Utley has a mental break until Friday. Hopefully this gets him straightened out because I doubt they can go through June with him hitting this bad.

    They should seriously consider busting him down to the 8 spot.

    1. Almost 26 years to the day, another Phillies great decided to hang them up.
      Maybe Chase will contact him and decide the same.

  16. The part that bugs me is that the 3 spot should be one of the best, if not the best hitter in the lineup.

    The Phillies 3 spot hitter is batting just over .100 while the 8 spot hitter is batting over .300.

  17. Are the roster’s reflected on pretty accurate for the GCL Phils and Crosscutters? I forgot how young Pujols and Encarnacion are

    1. Nope. The ones I’m looking at aren’t complete or accurate. The ‘Cutters will probably include position players – W. Garcia, Posso, Tomassetti, Cuicas, Hernandez, Marrero, Biter, Duran, G. Martinez, Pujols (DL) and a handful of 2015 college draft picks. And pitchers from among – Alezones, Benitez, Dominguez, Figueroa, Fisher, Gueller, Guerrero, Keys, Kiest, Kilome, McWilliams, M. Martinez, Morales, Morris, Paulino, Sanchez, Tavares, Thornhill and some 2015 college draft picks. Short season teams are permitted to have 30 players on their roster, although they can only suit up 25 for any given game. Rookie teams like the GCL are permitted 35 and 30.)

  18. In a little pre-Draft talk, the Phils are rumored to be high on Ga. C Tyler Stephenson. Seems, according to BA, he is the highest riser in the draft class. I want a high hit tool more than anything else, and I don’t know much about him.

  19. Cole has an unbelievable opportunity to set the stage tonight and press the issue of a trade going up against Matt Harvey. He doesn’t have to win of course but keeping the Mets bats in check through 7-8 on a low pitch count would be huge.

    Boston scape goated their pitching coach today…

  20. Sabean once dealt Zach Wheeler to the Mets for half a season of Beltran would he deal us Beede and Arroyo for Cole? Could you get him to throw in Austin Slater also…

  21. Boston stinking, Yankees surging could help us in the Hamels trade. Yanks, if they are contending, may want Cole at some point to lock a playoff run,. That sounds like a Yankee thing to do. Also, Sox, with decent offense, may want hamels if they want to hang in the race.

    Also close NL West race could be good for us, so hopefuly SF stays hot. Theo seems patient and has no urgency to win with such a young team so doubt Cubs go for Cole.

  22. Nick Cafardo reporting that Harang is already being scouted by a number of teams. With one scout speculating a 2nd level prospect in return (I agree). I have to admit to hoping for the best whenever Harang, Hamels and Williams are on the mound, and must less so when they aren’t.

    1. That is great to hear. We can get another prospect for the pipeline.

      This is what I was hoping for last year when the sale started. You sign some reclamation projects on one year deals. During the year you flip the winners and cut ties with the losers while keeping spots open for the guys to mature.

      If someone breaks out and warrants an early call up you have the space to acclimate the future.

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