Box Score Recap – 7/6/2014

Another good line from Severino Gonzalez, though he allowed another longball – his HR/9 rate is something like 1.25. That’s quite bad. And before we “Hey, doesn’t he pitch in a bandbox” this one, I’ll note that his rate on the road is almost twice as bad as it is at home. Nefi Ogando has been horrendous lately, but he threw 9/12 pitches for strikes and struck out two men in a clean inning of work. Speaking of…Phillippe Aumont threw 12 of his 13 pitches for strikes en route to an identical result to Ogando. Aumont had a stellar June, walking just two men and striking out 13 in 9.2 IP. His July was of to an inauspicious start, as he walked four men in his first two appearances. Hopefully Sunday’s turn is a precursor to more success.

J.P. Crawford hit his third A+ home run, (matching his A- total in far fewer PAs), and Cliff Lee worked two scoreless innings before the skies opened up over Brevard County. Zach Green had three hits and Yacksel Rios pitched well again as a starter, going seven strong innings for Lakewood. Frank Rivas is having a fine year out of the WIL bullpen in his stateside debut. The soon-to-be-22-year old has 13K to just five walks in 13.1 IP. Jia Tromp hit his sixth home run of the year, second in the league to State College’s Rowan Wick’s 11. Wick’s been in a bit of a slump lately, though, he’s only OPSing 1.182 over his last 10 games. Weak.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.


87 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 7/6/2014

  1. What’s the concern level over Jan Hernandez’ strikeouts? His K rate is at about 35% on the year between Lakewood and W-port, which is what it was last year in the GCL. Obviously it’s too many; can he fix it?

    1. I am very concerned. You hit it on the head – a smallish GCL sample in a US debut is one thing, but now having it continue (albeit in an even smaller sample) is worrisome. If he’s going to hit for a good bit of power, as the hope has been, he’d better figure it out or he will rarely see a pitch to drive.

      1. He’s already rarely seeing a pitch to drive, Brad. I’ve said it on the radio already, I don’t know why anyone would even consider throwing him a fastball even three weeks into the season. He goes into every at-bat with one mindset, it seems, and that’s to hit the ball 500 feet. He’s probably capable … Well, maybe 450 … But he’s a bit of a one-trick pony from what I’m seeing right now.

  2. I can’t believe I am about to say it…but I think Zach Green gets promoted soon. JP Crawford looks like he was going to have monster game until rain hit.

    1. While Green’s performance has been really good as of late, I doubt he gets promoted this year. You have to remember he really struggled with his K’s last year and basically missed the first 2 months of this season. I think what’s best for him is finishing at LWood. It does, however, make next year interesting with him and Walding at the same level. If the Phils feel Green is the better prospect, and there’s little reason not to believe that, I think they have to move Green back to 3rd.

      1. How would Green and Walding play at the same level next year? You expect Walding to get promoted, batting .205?

        1. That could be true, too. I just don’t know what a 3rd year at LWood would do for Walding .

        2. VOR..looks like your sleeper from 2012, Jiandido Tromp is starting to get his act together and become a prospect to watch..

          1. the one thing I’ve noticed with Tromp is he’s a dead pull hitter. Whenever you pitch outside to him he just rolls over to the short stop. This has to change for success at the higher levels.

          2. Yeah. It took him a year longer than I would have hoped, but he’s still only 20, so he has a chance. Mitch Rupert reporting that he is a good Center fielder also adds to his prospect status. I believe he was a 2nd baseman as an amateur.

      2. Walding, continues his current batting production, could be another ‘up or out’ casualty next season after the 2015 June draft and the new influx of collegiates come in and begin the domino effect of pushing guys out..

  3. Is it sad that I’m excited that Tocci has reached the .240 mark? And would I be crazy to call anything about .255 BA wise a successful season?

    1. No, that would be a plus. Progress is progress, even if in baby steps while repeating the league at a still young age as a skinny kid.

    2. If he finished with a .255 BA that would be fantastic. I think he could probably reach higher than that even. But key for him is finishing off strong as the seaaon closes down. Thats where his BA drop off last year.

    3. He’s definitely making better contact than last year. His K%, which had been going int he wrong direction, is inching back down.

      I don’t view him as highly as some people around here do – I think his ceiling is not high barring an improbable dramatic increase in his power – but age/level does matter. He needs to add some strength, and cut down on his K% a bit – but he’s a real prospect making real progress.

  4. I think its more of the sad group of prospects, We are hoping that they can get to 250 or a little better cause we have so little in minors to get excited about.

  5. Does anyone have insight as to why Alastre hits 9th so often for the VSL Phils? He seems like the best prospect on the team, and at least has the best average. Why would your best prospect and best hitter be hitting 9th? It makes me wonder if something is amiss that we cannot see from the box score.

    1. I had the same question. I can only guess that they did this to help him out of slump that took him down near .300. Now he is up over .350 so maybe they can put him at lead-off.

    1. Exactly. I think Tromp is a pretty interesting prospect and he’s a year older than Crawford and two leagues behind him. The biggest thing is that Crawford seems to be continuing his solid plate discipline and appears to be increasing his power. If Crawford hits for even moderate power, the sky is absolutely the limit for him because, from what I see, he has everything else going for him (fielding, hit tool, plate discipline, good athletic body, more than enough speed, etc. . . . ).

      And not to be lost, Quinn, to me, is probably the biggest surprise of the year, because he is coming off an injury and very few PAs at Lakewood, yet is doing fine at Clearwater in a new (albeit familiar) position and should be more than ready for Reading next year. The games at Reading should be a lot of fun the early part of next year (by late year, one or both players may be promoted to Lehigh Valley).

      1. Whoa. He refers to Bundy as a low-minors guy. Bundy’s essentially big league ready and working in the low minors as part of his comeback from TJ surgery. That’s pretty bad awareness right there.

    1. Great article. Shows how much we all over rate prospects. A few days ago, some guys on this blog said “no chance” to get Bundy. And anyone who suggested otherwise was a fool. Well, this reporter say we can get Bundy and Harvey.

      1. Someone said “Bundy” for something like Burnett(I can’t remember exactly. NOT Lee and Papelbon. That’s a completely different trade.

      2. I would also like Gausman, since he can pitch now in the MLB, maybe with one of Bundy or Harvey in the Lee deal.
        Though, IMO, Phillies will have to swallow some of the monies on Lee’s contract, though this writer said the O’s have plenty of money to spend.

        1. And of course we all know what will happen … We won’t acheive the fantasy deals that fans and underinformed (I’m being kind) reporters dream about, and, rather than re-examining their own assumptions, the same people will blame Amaro (who does indeed have serious faults as a GM, but who should not be expected to be a miracle worker).

          1. So LarryM….purely speculation I admit…..but what would you have given up for Jeff Smardijian and Hammel if you were in Billy Beane’s shoes?
            Surely not Russell and McKinney both, that is way too much i assume you would think.

            1. I think maybe one of the two, and a couple of lesser prospects.

              I will add this .. for deadline deals, it’s pretty clear that starting pitchers are considered relatively more valuable than position players. The reason for that should be obvious. So I do think that Lee, IF healthy, and IF the Phillies kicked in say 25 million – MIGHT get us a top 25 prospect. That’s in contrast to Utley – even if he agreed to approve a trade, IMO we would get something like a 40 to 50 prospect. (Of course it doesn’t help that Utley has come back to earth in June and July).

              But those are two big ifs. Really, given his health, we’re talking a hypothtical that doesn’t exist.

            2. I do want to remind people that I’ve been consistent in stating that a healtly Lee is the one guy who could have gotten us a top prospect – not by all means certain that he could have, but possible.

              What’s silly – and what I’v called silly – are the comments peopel have posted which imagine getting a top prospect or prospects for some of our lesser lights, e.g. Papelbon. And – maybe not quite silly but unrealistic – comments about getting a major league ready potential star (Pederson) for Utley. Utley, as much as I love him, really doesn’t have the value for a contending team that a healthy Lee would.

              Keep in mind, though, that “healthy Lee” is, at the moment at least, and oxymoron.

          2. But that’s for a guy who is cheap, healthy and young.

            Underlying a lot of these disagreements is the fact that value is determined entirely by what someone is willing to pay for a commodity. And it’s pretty clear to me that (even apart from some people’s general misevaluation of our own players/prospects) that many people around here don’t have a good handle on how major league teams value (on the one hand) expensive veterans and (on the other hand) prospects. Maybe in some abstract sense major league organizations are “foolish” in placinga higher value on a cheap, young healthy player than on an older, injured, expensive (but better when healthy) player like Lee ,,, but in fact they do!!!!!!

            As I said, IF Lee was healthy, and IF the Phillies kicked in about 25 million dollars, we would have an interesting test – does the fact that Lee is probably better outweigh the fact that he’s much older and (even with the 25 million) more expensive? He MIGHT (of course throw in the fact that the price paid by Oakland was more than most teams are willing to pay).

            But we don’t have that test case. Most importantly, he isn’t healthy. And, even if he was, the Phillies, even if they kick some money in, aren’t kicking in 25 million.

          3. seidman has been having a horrible year and lost a lot of credibility with me when he wrote about how Cole Hamels hasn’t pitched up to his contract after he got light up by two teams who have always hit him well.

    2. I think there is some serious wishful thinking here, especially the assumption that the $60 million that Lee is owed in 2015 and 2016 is a ‘cost certainty’ plus to the Orioles. With his age and arm injury this year, that actually represents big $ risk. I think the writer is transferring the Phillies obsession with ‘cost certainty’ onto the Orioles. It is not like the 2015 and 2016 years are available at a cheap cost. I guess they might trade one of the two huge prospects in A ball to hang onto their advanced top prospect. If the Phillies could get prospects of this caliber, RAJ should pay the remaining 2014 salaries of Paps and Lee.

      1. I hope they do pay some money to get some prospects like Harvey, we will see how committed they are to getting younger, and better. and letting the 2008 winning not affected there decision. I wonder if there is any way a American league team would take Howard, if we paid most of his contract, wishful thinking on my part.

      2. Angelos is pretty thrifty but spends wisely, and Duquette is ready to win the whole thing and they think they can do that now, so dangling Lee in front of them can bring back two legit first-tier prospects. But like you said, the ’60M owed Lee is a ‘cost certainty’ plus to the O’s with the added risk of his age and injury concern.
        I do not see how the Phillies cannot pony up a substantial percent of the remaining contract.

          1. Takin’ shots at my man Hinkie. Love him. Had the sense to leave Doug McDermott on the board, and burn up the Flyers fans pretending to know basketball.

      3. Ya I thought he spun this article to sound a bit better for the Phils. The way he adds Paps in there as a throw in at the end instead of examining secondary pieces from the Phils seems lazy and irresponsible. I think a package of 3 of those 4 players for Lee, Paps, and a pile of cash sounds realistic.

      4. I think anytime we’re talking about dealing Lee we’re talking about eating 50% of his salary at least. No way we get the type of prospects we need it we don’t. Few teams can acquire a guy who would make $25 million a season otherwise even if he was 100% healthy.

        I’d eat no money if I dangled Hamels though. No reason to trade him unless you’re worried about his arm going forward.

    3. The Phillies need Cliff Lee to get healthy and start a few games in Philly in the worst way. They can’t trade him unless he’s healthy and the clock is running down towards 7/31. What would it take to get Gose back for Toronto? Is he an upgrade over Revere since he hasn’t hit much in the majors?

      1. there is absolutely no rush to trade Cliff Lee. They might get more if they trade him during the off-season.

  6. I do think it’s hilarious that I’ve been down voted on two comments in which the only remotely controversial thing that I’ve said or implied is that age/level matters. And it cracks me up that there are some people around here that STILL refuse to accept this fact. In fact, it really ISN’T (or should be) remotely controversial, except that for some people it clearly still is (in the way that I guess for some people that claim that the earth revolves around the sun is still “controversial).

      1. Well I do, mostly, I do think it’s funny that I tend to get upvoted on what I would think are my more controversial posts, and down voted on stuff that is pretty innocuous.

        And, of all the controveries around here, the one I find most mystifying is the refusal on some to accept the relevance of age/level. Almost everything else – refusal to accept the value of BB, beleif in the importance of RBIs, even unrealistic expectations about the trade value of well paid or overpaid veterans – I understand, even while (sometimes stringly) disagreeing with, but the importance of age/level is simply so obviously correct.

    1. Larry….I emailed gregg to see if they can change the ‘thumbing’ process….that is…’thumbs up’ requires no response, but a ‘thumbs down’ requires a response to activate it or some form of a rebuttal
      . Awaiting

      1. people either like what you have to say or they don’t. I would suggest not to take it so personal. I embrace my thumbs down as much as my thumbs up 🙂

  7. With teams busting slot for the IL FAs could that put the Phils in a better position to scoop up top talent in future years? Assuming we don’t move to an IL draft.

    1. I think it depends a lot on whether there are more teams waiting in the wings to bust slot in the next couple of years. If not, then yes, but keep in mind we’ll still be competing with the vast majority of the teams who didn’t bust slot this year.

  8. I am a little confused, if each year two teams bust slot for best players, that’s all you need. look at top il prospects Yankees killed, last year cubs, so do we fight it out for what’s left, so we don’t piss off people or do we go after the talent, Do we play fair or win three super bowls like New England, do you think the Boston people care they cheated to win??

    1. Apples and oranges. Boston cheated. They broke the rules. They did so in secret. The Cubs and Yankees did not cheat. They openly followed Path B, as laid out in the MLB rules. They will pay the prescribed tax on their over-pool spending, presumably they will comply with the rules limits on the international bonuses they can hand out next season. They freely choose to do this, in full compliance with MLB rules. They follow a path that any team is free to openly choose. That the commissioner would prefer that they follow Path A is immaterial. That the Phillies owners/management and a lot of other teams would prefer that they follow path A is immaterial. The baseball rules include both paths. There is a reason for that. Those who wanted a prohibition on exceeding the pool were unable to get the rule worded they way they wanted. This includes Selig. That’s tough. He’s not a dictator. The rules are what all the parties agreed to, not what some of the parties wish had been agreed.

      1. As a postscript, since the tax that the Yankees and Cubs pay goes into the fund that MLB shares out to the low revenue teams, many of the organizations who criticize the pool-busting will be secretly cheering and laughing all the way to the bank. Prior to CBP. Giles and company would have been among that happy crew.

        1. My point was and still is, the rules don’t stop you from spending, and if there is a year, That you think there are great prospects, take the shot why not, screw selig, he is small market owner, so he doesn’t want you to go big. That is what the teams who want to win will try, will it work? I have no clue, but its worth 12 million in international, then to spend 200 million for ten years for a player who is at the end of his career, Allentown that is really getting to me, the marlins owner is making money, by not spending, is that fair?? he isn’t trying to win.

  9. Midseason Rankings Baseball Prospectus has J.P. Crawford ranked at No. 36, while Baseball America has the shortstop at No. 23 and suggests that he could rise into the Top 10 next year. Baseball America has Maikel Franco ranked at No. 50, while Baseball America does not have him on its list.

  10. Bundy and Gausman? Sorry folks, that sounds like a fantasy to me…at any rate, if RAJ is going to trade away his best assets, what should he focus on as a return? I’d argue that position players would be much more valuable to this system moving forward. Who do we have coming up that projects to hit in the 3-4-5 spots on a playoff caliber team? Franco isn’t there yet, Asche could get there, and we haven’t even talked positions with those two, and I think Crawford would look real nice in the 2 hole, not so nice hitting cleanup.

    1. The Phillies have so many needs, that it doesn’t really matter much whether they get hitters or pitchers (although, truly, they don’t need relief pitchers right now).

      If they get young pitchers, then they’ll have money available to sign hitters. I’d focus on value. Get the most value and move on. One thing I think they must move are guys who are entirely superfluous, including Kendrick and Papelbon. Both have some value and are dead salary at this point.

      1. Completely agree. All that matters is the quality of the talent, not the position

    2. Likely your 4 or 5 is going to be your first baseman. There’s a number of reasons why I would not target a first baseman right now. IMO that’s a position that may well be filled eventually via free agency.

      You gotta asume at this point that Franco will be a 4 or 5.

      Finally, by the time this team is ready to compete again – 2018 maybe – Sandberg could well occupy the other middle of the order slot.

      I also would not rule out Crawford as a 3.

      All that said, catch’s response is more to the point. This organization needs to add talent – way too early in the rebuilding process to target specific needs.

  11. Destroying the Phillies have a horrible farm meme…

    If you strip out teams that have had at least 1 top 5 pick in the past 5 drafts (2014 excluded), The Phillies have more top 50 prospects in BA’s mid-season list than any team except the Dodgers and Mets.

    List here:

    That doesn’t include Nola (because BA ignores 2014 for this list), Cord or Quinn.

    And I would bet, at this trade deadline, we will add at least 1, and possibly 2 prospects on this list.

    1. While I’m not one of the people saying we have a horrible system (the more fundemental problem is the absurd lack of under 30 talent on the 25 man roster), you as usual go too far in the other direction.

      With Utley and Hamels of the table, the only chance for adding one (and only one) top 50 prospect will occur AFTER the deadline if Lee proves that he is healthy.

    2. YOur argument might be taken as a possible explanation for why we have a horrible farm, but it in no way discounts that argument. So, some teams had top 5 picks in the past 5 drafts. That can be true and their farm system can still be better than ours.

      1. I have spent some time looking at other farm systems ahead of this trade deadline. And my conclusion is that most teams who are winning (Cards and Red Sox are exceptions) have worse farms then us. The point has been made over and over on this blog that there is a high causal correlation between draft order and strength of farm. And yet, when it comes to elite prospects, the Phillies are better than most even without a top 10 pick (2014 draft was excluded from BA’s list). The point of my post is most commenters on this blog lose perspective. It is extremely hard to both win for a long time and have a great farm system.

  12. Did anybody see Domingo Santana had 11k’s in 13 ab…compared to that Altherr’s ab’s were pretty good.

    1. Santana’s minor league K rate is a minimum indication what you will get at a higher level.

      1. I think the opposite. I think his past K rate is big indicator of what he will do in ML.

    2. He is a strikeout machine – always has been, probably always will be. And I don’t think he’s a great fielder either. The question is whether the power and plate discipline will be enough to make up for the Ks and lack of defense.

      1. Not that I’m rooting against Santana by any means, but I feel like if he had come up and immediately OPS’d .900 it might have been more than my fragile baseball psyche could bear. Singleton and D’Arnaud have both been pretty up-and-down too in their brief stints in the big leagues, just goes to show it takes time for most prospects to adjust–guys like Yasiel Puig are the clear exception.

  13. I have to side with Larry on this one, I would take the Shark over Cliffie any day of the week, he is younger, cost controlled and has a much better upside than Lee, if i am the Phils every trade made will bring back offense, offense, offense

    1. or maybe some pitching… the Phils could use all the help they could get in all departments. Best player available?

  14. Was this a General Discussion topic or a daily boxscore? Brad, you might have to put up a General Discussion topic more often. There are many people chomping at the bit on the Trade Deadline which is nearly 4 weeks away.

    1. We should probably add a bulletin board to the site so that guy who hates that we don’t have a bulletin board doesn’t get mad at you for bringing this up, Bellman.

    2. One possible solution to that problem would be a layout with tiles like SBNation sites so that multiple posts stay up front.

      I’ve always found that a little to tablety — I’m a laptop person — but it would prevent the general discussion posts from getting buried.

      Not that anyone is looking to redesign the site any further or should be. I think things are chugging along just fine here..just have to stop the bleeding from all of these writer defections.

      1. Yeah, Matt tried that I think when he was toying with the redesign the first time. I like the notion. Maybe I can come up with a simple solution to that – a menu option or something.

  15. I was at the Williamsport game on 7/6. Tromps HR was in left center. Left field down the line is 345 with a 20 foot high wood fence all around the stadium. [Williamsport was a hub of the lumber industry in the 1800-s through mid 1900’s.] About 60-70 feet beyond left field is a blacktop road. The ball must have hit on the road on a fly because it bounced high into the neighbors trees beyond the road. I’m guessing the road is about 435+ feet.

    Sandberg has a nice looking swing and game presence, but struck out twice this game. Marrero had one go through his legs as it looked like he pulled up a little to soon. He also backhanded one that I thought he should have gotten in front of. Hoskins backhanded 2 in the same way. He misplayed one, though not charged with an error.

    All in all, a lot of good looking strokes on the team. More polished than previous yrs due to the volume of college prepped players. Campbell had a nice play ranging behind second base and his HR just cleared the fence down the line.

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