“Soft-Tossing 28-Year-Old Righty Wins AAA Game” isn’t usually the headline around here, but it was a heck of a game from Barry Enright – 1R on 4H, 1HR, 1BB and 2K in a complete game victory. Tyson Gillies, Tyler Henson and Steve Susdorf all with multi-hit games, Jim Murphy was 2-4 with a double and a home run, and Cameron Rupp was 1-1 with a double, three walks, and scored twice in his return to AAA action after a couple weeks on the shelf. I’m starting to think things about Gillies. Just small things. Maybe nothing will come of it.
Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez made his professional debut as part of his official rehab assignment, giving up 3R on 6H, 2BB, 1K in 5IP. Jim wrote up his impressions last night. Check it out. Five Threshers had multi-hit games in that one.
And in the VSL, Jesus Alastre notched his first professional XBH, a triple. DCWildcat53 pointed out in the comments yesterday that Jim Salisbury reported that Alastre was a July 2 signing last year for $50k, so now I won’t have to search for it. DC REPRESENT! Also, 2012 high-bonus guy Willerker Isava saw the field in that contest, his first action of the year, at third base instead of his prior position of shortstop.
Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB. http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20140515
Phuture Phillies 
Everyone gives RAJ crap for the package he got for Lee. But if you look at Gillies 2009 season he looks like an absolute stud. High ob% with some pop, speed and defense. At 20 yo in high A. If he was our system we would have gone bonkers if he got traded away for a rental. His makeup seems poor but maybe the realization of age and the reality of getting a real job has sobered him up. Would like to see his walk rate go up. But the kid does have tools.
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Wouldn’t be surprised to see him called up before Ruben gets canned so he can put on his resume he got 3 major league players for Cliff Lee.
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Let’s wait and see. I’d love it if we could salvage something from the Lee deal, but to me, we’ve been down this road many times before with Gillies. I think it would probably take a few more months of stellar performance, plus a major injury to Revere, plus a complete implosion of the big league club that puts them in cost-control mode, in order for there even to be the tiniest shot of his seeing a big league stadium this year. But even in that scenario, given the perception–and I say perception, I don’t know the guy, he could be misunderstood and I think the disability is a real mitigating factor–but given the perception that he is a disruptive clubhouse presence, I wonder if they wouldn’t prefer to go with Tony Gwynn Jr or (if TGJr isn’t on the team any longer) a Roger Bernandina type, which always seems possible to find for cheap.
I guess that’s the question with Gillies: even in the best case scenario, is he a better player than Roger Bernandina?
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I mean, look at what happened with Lastings Milledge, and he was a top prospect. As soon as it became clear his talent didn’t justify the headache, the Mets shipped him out, then he bounced around a little bit and now (I just checked) he’s playing in Japan. You have to be really, really good to overcome a bad reputation. And I’m not sure that Gillies is even good, let alone really, really good.
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Scouting based on stats from high desert in the CAL league probably isn’t the best defense of Gillies, my grandmother could slug .700 in that league.
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So his .063 average against lefties has you all excited after a decent past 10 days?
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Pointing to 2009, even after adjusting for context, is a legitimate defense of the trade at the time. Let’s not forget that Aumont will still a fairly well regarded prospect at the time.
But 2009 has nothing to do with today. Whether because of the injuries, make up, or just the normal vagaries of prospect development, he’s not a prospect at this point in time. The fact that otherwise reasonable people are still hoping for something from him is a reflection of the weakness of the organization in terms of under 30 talent in the majors and upper minors.
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There was hope for Gillies after his Hi-A season, but to my recollection he wasn’t considered to be a “stud” by any prospect followers. I remember some saying that they thought he was a 4th OF, even after that season.
His numbers on the season still stink and one good stretch isn’t enough to get me thinking that he’s suddenly a prospect again.
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He posted those #s in the California League – which is why no one was going crazy when he got traded away. CalLeague is a hitters paradise and Gillies has done NOTHING before or after that one year.
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yeah, no offense to you V1, but your defense of the organization is pretty mind blowing. are you a mole? or rubens cousin?
Gilles put up those numbers in a hitter friendly league…at the time of the trade every scout said hes a marginal prospect, not an elite guy, and his numbers were inflated. this is not a “hindsight is 20/20” case…nobody in the game of baseball thought that package was any good
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not a mole. 🙂 i look at things objectively and try not to use hindsight to my advantage.
you “data” on Gillies is wrong.
– top 15 prospect in his league in both 2008 and 2009
– voted “most exciting player” in his league in 2009
https://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/59263
And Aumont was a top 100 prospect 2007, 2008 and 2009
http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/players/cards/29019
what i find amazing is how people continually use hindsight to bash decisions that didn’t pan out.
and to be clear…I am NOT saying Gillies will be a good mlb player. let me repeat that. I am NOT saying Gillies will be a good MLB player.
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Here you go: a list of initial trade reactions to the Halladay-Lee deal.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/blockbuster-trade-reactions.html
Not a lot of raves about the prospects the Phillies got there, a whole lot of “it’s a heist for the Mariners” reaction. It didn’t turn out that way because the rest of the team ended up sucking and they traded Lee on to the Rangers, but nonetheless, no one in Seattle was crying any tears about the departure of Gillies, Aumont and Ramirez.
Fun fact: three of the four players in the Mariners-Rangers Lee trade (Justin Smoak, Blake Beavan and Josh Lueke) have racked up significant major league service, though none of them have turned out to be very good. The fourth the Mariners later flipped for Aaron Laffey, a serviceable middle reliever. So while, yes, trading stars for prospects is always a gamble, the Phillies lost the Lee trade by a really disastrous margin. They traded one of the top pitchers in the game and all they got was a few inconsistent months out of Phillipe Aumont (and yes, JC Ramirez does not count.) That is just abysmal.
Now you can also make an argument that if the Lee trade doesn’t happen, the budget doesn’t allow them to get Halladay, they don’t get the perfect game, they don’t get the Game 1 no hitter, and so on. I’ll take those memories. But there’s no defending, even in retrospect, the return on the Lee trade.
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I really don’t think it is hindsight. Nobody who follows the organization from top to bottom was a fan of the original Pence trade, and nobody was a fan of the Lee trade WHEN IT HAPPENED.
Now if Tommy Joseph doesn’t pan out, and people rip Amaro, THAT would be a hindsight-related criticism, since he was generally considered a very good catching prospect and you can’t predict injuries. But those other trades were bad from the second he made them, not just years later.
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really, every scout was saying that? Interesting that you didn’t wish to offend but immediately jumped to calling V1 names?
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who was calling him names? i just asked if he is related to someone in the org because he constantly defends them. Amaro inherited a dynasty and has turned it into a last place caliber team. Not sure how you can defend that.
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We really don’t have anything else to complain about with Ruben? We got 3 middling prospects for 1 year of Cliff Lee before free agency. Sounds almost fair to me, given the context of the trade. The context of the trade is what we really should be complaining about.
The Pence trade was far worse, both at the time, and in hindsight.
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Funny part is that those who continue to pile blame on Rubin (or any other GM) for a trade not working out are making the assumption that he made the decision without substantial input from the team’s scouts and player personnel people.
I suppose you can make the case that Amaro’s the guy who hired/didn’t fire them but I expect the package he got for Lee was recommended/supported by the people who watched these guys play unless you believe that Amaro agreed to those players in spite of their recommendations.
Yes, the guy in charge ultimately is responsible but firing Amaro will only make a difference if his replacement is going to clean house throughout the organization’s talent evaluation staff.
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The only defense of the Lee trade is if (and some signs point to this being the case) ownership made him dump the salary. If he truly was trying to restock the system, as he claimed at the time, and that’s what we got back…well then he’s worse than any of us every thought possible.
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I tend to agree with the premise that ownership forced Amaro’s hand but only because he signed Blanton to the 3 year deal which paid him the same amount that year as Lee. Since we’re reliving the painful past, I consider Amaro’s two biggest mistakes were Blanton’s contract and his failure to trade for Halladay during the 2009 season. I assume since they were able to finally land Halladay after the season, D. Brown might have been the only holdup on completing that trade in time for the 2009 World Series.
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His biggest single transactional mistakes are: (a) Ryan Howard contract; (b) Hunter Pence trade; and (c) first Cliff Lee trade. You can’t overestimate the damage done by item (c) – you play the game to win championships – he easily could have traded himself out of a second championship by trading Lee. It’s not the type of move powerhouse teams make. Items (a) and (b) kind of speak for themselves. HIs biggest fairlure as a GM, however, has been the inability to develop prospect and balance a roster (in every way imaginable – balance yougner and older players, balance big contracts and smaller contracts, and balance offense with defense). On a scale of 1 to 10, given the resources provided to him, he’s been about a 2 or a 3 or, at very best, a 4, and I think I’m being charitable.
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you failed to mention (d), a weak and dismal bench since letting Mini Mart walk…(tic)
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If Gillies can continue to produce, and do it consistently and quietly, he’ll get a look-see later this season, I’d think. But those are big “ifs”…
I’m not sure he’s a clubhouse problem, per se. His well documented snafus have been more on himself than those around him–at least lately and bus drivers notwithstanding. His teammates defended him after the latest incident. But the distraction part of it is a different story–hence “quietly” above.
As to “consistently,” he’s going to have to stay healthy, too. That was a problem for a while, and the dude does go hard on every play. Fastest home runs and walks I’ve ever seen.
And after all that, it will be only a look-see. But I’m cheering for him.
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The thing is, I for one cannot hate on the guy cause you can see he busts his ass out there.
He had a good half season in Reading in ’12, but like many,the jump to AAA has been a difficult one. It’s not for a lack of trying, I can say that for sure. Hopefully the monkey is finally off his back, as I really want him to do well. He plays a good OF, and if can just keep up the pace he is on, maybe he can get his call. I’m not saying he’s gonna be a starter, but he could be a nice bat off the bench/defensive replacement.
Susdorf is another guy that I’m glad is doing well lately too. It’s a shame he made one mistake in the OF last year in his callup that got him sent down the next day, but I don’t think he’s as bad as a OF that people make him out to be. The guy can hit, and that is what the Phils need off the bench.
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Listen, the last 2 years have laid out ALL the reasons why Ruben is awful. It was not this trade. It was not once move. It’s everything. Overvaluing veterans. Giving money to relievers. The Howard contract alone deserves its own category, being too tied to the 2008 team, not re-stocking the farm system. not maximizing value of assets.
If you want to sum it up in one sentence, it is that he has no recognition of concept of value. That’s pretty much the worst quality a GM can have.
And I fully agree with your “its not all amaros fault” arguemnt, but he is in charge of hiring competent people within the system. I have said this before and I will say it again: if De Fratus/Rosenberg/Diekman/Aumont came up in another system with better coaching, they could all be lights out relievers, based on the pure stuff t hey have.
The organization is just a mess, and while I don’t want them to become the Astros and begin a 6 year plan, they do need to have a fire-sale
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Do we need to say ANYTHING else besides…. Delmon effing Young?? Argument over.
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I think the fact that when you think of mistakes Ruben has made, and most people DONT even think of Delmon as a top 10, that says enough lol
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Susdorf very quietly has moved his average over 300. No homers but the guy is a line drive machine. Its hard to believe there’s not a place for him somewhere on someone’s bench.
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No power, no speed, not much on defense so I’m not surprised at all. He should be thankful for the cup of coffee he got in the majors a couple years back. Most players his caliber never get that far. Unfortunately for him, the only memorable moment from his time there was his dropped ball in leftfield.
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He’s like the exact opposite of all those “toolsy” OF we’ve drafted.
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If he only had caught that fly ball in Detroit!
It may have been a whole different story for Sussy.
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Yeah, I hope that when he gets old, he remembers the one hit (a double) he got in his 7 at bats, and not the error that was on the front page of the sports section. Though I think there’s probably little chance of that. Poor Steve.
I just looked him up–in his time in the majors he managed to amass -0.1 WAR, meaning he cost the Phillies a tenth of a win. So if you are looking for someone to blame for the Phillies record last year, he bears 1/890th of the responsibility.
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Modern day Greg Gross
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I kind of always thought that too. I agree that hes nto a starter, but isn’t there room on a roster somewhere for a guy whos gonna get on base a lot like that?
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Where is Roman Quinn at right now in his rehab? Is he ready to return?
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I know it is just a sample size, but Jon Prosinski has been pitching pretty good the last 3 games. Here is his pitch line from those games.
21.1IP, 21hits, 8ER, 3Walks and 11Strikeouts, 3.41ERA.
Major improvement over his first four starts.
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