June 23rd Discussion

Daily Discussion

Last night’s scores

Williamsport wins 6-5.
Clearwater wins 10-1.
Reading wins 7-5.
Lehigh Valley loses 9-4.

At the SAL All Star Game

Villar: 2/5, HR
Zied: 1.1 IP – 2 K

95 thoughts on “June 23rd Discussion”

  1. Hey PhuturePhillies – Just a heads-up, but your link to the Clearwater box score is pointing to the LHV game. I’m having trouble connecting to minorleaguebaseball.com, but if you wanted to link the ironpigsbaseball.com box score, here it is –

    http://ironpigsbaseball.com/ironpigs/statistics/index.html?autoload=boxscore&gid=2010_06_22_lhvaaa_noraaa_1&sportcode=aaa

    Reading 3-4-5 is turning into a murders row. This team could win the Eastern League if they kept them together, but they should do the right thing and move Brown up to AAA soon.

    Like

  2. Clearwater- 16 hits for lineup , all players had hits. Pitching- Jesus Sanchez 5IP, and Aumont 4IP in a good peformance- they might continue this as a tag team combination starters. Don’t think it is negative for Sanchez as he has pitched alot of innings and will have alot by end of season if this continues through.

    Williamsport- another brief starting appearance by a College draftee as Mario Hollands goes a couple. Maybe they work them in slowly as College Pitchers tend to pitch alot.

    GCL- Looks like Ervis Manzanillo is one of the starters. Relief appearance by Luis Paulino 2IP-2K, from the last seen at 3B player. Continued hitting from Cesar Hernandez and Miguel Alvarez. Mendez moved to 1B, Luis Unda in LF. Signs of starting to hit from Dugan and Chris Duffy and others.

    Like

  4. Pitching line of the night belongs to Gabirel Arias in the DSL. He’s 20 yrs old (old for the league) but he went 7 giving up 5 Hs, 2 Rs but 0 ER and had 10 Ks without a walk. He now has 29Ks in 25 IP.

    Best hitting line has to go to Dom Brown. 3 for 4 with 2 HRs and 3 RBIs. Earlier this year when we talking about what player would disappoint the most, I picked Brown. I felt that if he had a great season, like he’s having, we’d just say that it was expected of a top prospect. If he had a slight hiccup, we’d be so disappointed. It’s hard to live up to the expectations of being great. I have to say that Dom has not disappointed. Also, I have been saying that Brown should stay in AA all year. I have to admit my stupidity and say that he should be promoted anywhere the Phils see fit. I’d hesitate a moment if they called him up to Philly but I have to say that he’d do fine there. He is everything I hoped for and so much more.

    Like

  5. I really would like to know if Aumont went back to his old style.
    Either way good for him. It must of been hell and I am sure the demotion took some pressure off.

    Seems to me many,many prospects have improved this year. Some stayed the same but few have regressed.

    Like

  7. No wheels you have been making sense and being awfully nice lately. I like it, but wonder what you did with no wheels??

    Like

  8. Yea I’m going to have to agree, todzilla. I’ve been one of nowheels’ harshest critics, but as of late his posts have been cohesive and pleasant.

    Like

  9. I was thinking the same thing re: nowheels.

    He is right on with the prospects this year. I was worried about the farm system over the winter, given that the Phils pretty much traded 7 of their top 10 prospects, but the farm system is chugging right along nicely

    – Jeff

    Like

  10. harold garcia has gotten very little love on this blog, but he is quietly putting up a great year. did you all know he has a 25-game hitting streak? i just read that on CSN. he is hitting .333/.384/.465 for the year. not much power, but he seems to be able to consistently put the ball in play and he plays 2nd base and 3rd base. if he keeps this up, he could be a legit mlb utility player in the mold of Polanco. He is 23, so i would expect a bump to AA later this year. worth watching.

    Like

  11. Mayberry’s slowly falling back to .260… is he being exposed? I understand he’s had some injury woes… anyone have thoughts?

    Like

  12. Yeah, I’ve been noticing Garcia, and it’s an eyebrow raise, but I want to see him do it at AA now, and then I’ll feel better about him… kinda like Rizzotti now.

    Like

  13. guys like rizzotti and garcia – i.e. guys who are role players and not uber prospects a la Dom Brown – are really important to the big club. i know that the front office types put a lot more weight into guys like that then we do on blogs. Zagurski is another example. really, really important to the big club if he can come up and be a lefty specialist. could save the club significant money (which they can invest elsewhere) and provide a great service. too often, we only focus on who will be the next pujols. while it is fun to dream, you build championship rosters top to bottom.

    Like

  14. Sandberg, I see Mayberry’s numbers are close to last year’s production. I think the first two months were just a mirage.

    Like

  15. Marfis, I think that the short stint turned in by Mario Hollands may be related to the fact that he gave up 4 runs and 6 hits in two innings (ERA: 18)and probably threw a lot of pitches. Previously, Perci Garner (#2 pick) had given up 4 runs in one inning on 3 hits and one walk (ERA: 36). These college starting pitchers are getting hammered!

    Like

  17. The college pitchers are probably on strict pitch counts and I wouldn’t doubt that management is telling them to throw certain pitches more often or tinkering with their pitching motion to smooth it out.

    Like

  18. ok, lets go out on a limb….why not bring up Rizotti and have him platoon with Ibanez? We aren’t worried about his service time and if he could be somewhat effective it helps the team and he could be trade bait?

    Like

  20. I can’t understand, maybe people on here are right about me being dumb, but if Dominic Brown can’t put up better or equal numbers than ibanez , plus he adds speed, then cant understand why scouts would be saying he is 14 best prospect, this is his fifth year in the minors, he should be ready to at least hit 5 homruns and hit 245 like ibanez, plus he would give us speed on the bases,

    Like

  22. If Dom Brown were brought up, he wouldn’t play every day or even all that regularly. Ibanez is hitting just enough that UC will continue to toss him out there. Ibanez is also historically a 2nd half player and will be given a ton of rope as a result of his track record and contract.

    I dont disagree that there’s a good shot that Dom could equal Ibanez’s current season production but for a lot of reasons, its simply not gonna happen.

    Like

  23. @Dude…not sure why you would bring up a left-handed batter who apparently doesn’t field well and first base to platoon with another left-handed batter. Just not sure how that helps.

    Like

  24. I think Dom Brown could be in the majors today, but I don’t think the Phillies will do it for a number of reasons… they’re not the Royals; they don’t like starting service time; they think Ibanez will improve; and Dom Brown’s not on the 40 man.

    Rizzotti move makes no sense because he can’t play anywhere in the field and he’s not on the 40 man. Ibanez is improving and is a notoriously streaky hitter… hopefully the second half bodes well for him.

    Here are his hitting trends as per Fangraphs:

    Like

  25. I’ve been on the Harold Garcia bandwagon for 2 years. Last year in Lakewood, Garcia and Gose were an incredible 1 -2 punch. When Gose started slowly this year I actually credited some of it to not having Garcia around. He was on the DL. When he came back, Gose caught fire. Might be coincidence or A+ break in period but I’ll say some of it was the Garcia factor.

    Now it looks like they are trying Harold at 3rd. This causes some issues. We definitely need to develop some 3rd basemen in the minors but he can’t move to AA because Overbeck just went there. I’d have no problem moving him up, putting him at 2nd and letting Chavez go but I think the Phils want to see him try 3rd. I hope this doesn’t stunt his growth.

    It would be an interesting infield. Riz at 1st, Garcia at 2nd, Galvis at SS and Overbeck at 3rd. Put Q, Brown and Gillies in the OF. I don’t know if any balls can be hit in the air and not get caught by that OF group. All we need is a catcher to complete a really good AA team.

    Like

  26. Re: Perci Garner:

    They have him throwing a 4-seam fastball. He’s never thrown one before. Apparently his 4-seam fastball cuts in more than his 2-seam and he was having issues locating it. Apparently that’s all he threw. I read that in some news article but I can’t remember for the life of me where.

    Like

  27. That Brown guy is pretty good. Maybe one trade deadline the Phills won’t empty the farm and they can build on this success.

    Like

  28. There’s no way I would consider promoting Brown skipping AAA. He’s gotta get maybe a half season of AAA at bats before trying to make the jump. You wany him ready when the time comes. He still needs to work on his outfield play.

    Like

  29. For argument sake:

    If Ibanez were lost for the season tomorrow (god forbid), would Brown be brought up?

    Like

  30. A full season injury is probably the only circumstance that would have Brown called up. There is no way he will be called up to split time.

    Like

  31. JT – probably not. If I had $100 to wager I’d put $40 on Mayberry, $10 on Taveras and keep the rest.

    Like

  32. Tim Kennelly came up with another hit with runners in scoring position last night to raise his RISP avg. to .340 trailing only Harold Garcia’s .350 RISP avg. of current Thresher regulars.

    Like

  33. With Garcia, I think they’re getting him reps at third base to prepare him for a role as a utility player, rather than switching his position. Garcia really doesn’t fit the mold of a third baseman. I think he still has some chance to be a starting-caliber second baseman, although it’s not all that likely, but he can be very useful as a utility player, provided he can keep hitting.

    Like

  34. Domonic Brown proved last night why he should NOT be moved anywhere, the 2 bombs were great, awesome, but his hitting isn’t the issue. Fielding awareness is and its what he needs to learn yet and he proved that last night. Top of the first 2 out fly ball to Center right field, Brown running to towards center, Berry running towards right. Berry was coming in from behind and had right of way, BAM huge collision, run scored from second on a previous double. Both were very slow to get up, especially Berry. Not heeding Berry’s right of way. And an obvious huge failure in comunication. This show’s Dom’s problem, he is still learning and this event shows he still needs to learn. You guys want a collision that could lead to a Victorino injury? You want to put hi in left where the guy has no experience. The HR’s were nice but it confirmed what we already knew, Brown’s learning is for the fielding, specifically the awareness on fly balls. Last night was proof of why not to move him anywhere right now. Not proof for him to come up.

    Like

  35. As per BA
    In a class thin on true shortstops, Anderson Gonzalez out of Barquisimeto stands out with his defensive abilities. Anderson, who has been connected to the Phillies, has the potential to be an above-average defender at shortstop with soft hands and a strong arm. Gonzalez has a projectable body with a lanky frame at around 6-foot-1, but he doesn’t have much present power and his bat is still a question mark for some scouts.

    Like

  38. ok, why not put Rizotti in LF at Reading? Worst case he cant play there, best case he enhances his trade value and/or becomes someone we can use in a limited role? Just saying. What’s the downside?

    Like

  39. Also, Im curious what you all think about adding the DH to the NL? Just think if we had the DH we never wuold’ve had to trade Thome….imagine that lineup?

    Like

  40. Rizzotti won’t work in left, while more athletic and faster than his appearance would indicate I just think it would be impossible

    Like

  42. Re: DH in NL.

    It seems like the argument breaks down like this.
    10% think the DH is an abomination and must be destroyed.
    10% think pitchers hitting is gruesome and pointless and NL is AAAA because of it.
    80% do not care but find it absurd that the leagues have different rules.

    The commissioner needs to feel free to make himself useful and fix the problem one of these years…

    As far as my take goes, if convicted felons were forced to watch Joe Blanton bunt, the ACLU would get involved. How is it fair that we have to watch it?

    Like

  43. @That Dude

    In my opinion having a DH is not real baseball. It takes away from the strategy of the game and fundamentals. There’s less sacrificing, hit and run, pitching around players, wheel plays ect. Without the DH your bench and bullpen have to be strong.

    Like

  46. Rizzotti in left field, the downside is that the ERAs of our pitching prospects go up, they’re forced to alter their strategies and they suffer for not having a quality fly catcher in left.

    As far as the DH. That pitchers hitting adds strategy is a crock. If the pitcher hits with runners on and less than two outs, he bunts. Two out or nobody on and he meekly swings away.

    What really amazes me is that people get SO amped up about how awful the DH is, but there is real difference in attendance patterns between the American and National leagues.

    Like

  48. Regarding whether Brown should move to AAA, I have no strong opinion, but I’d like to hear the opinion of our experts here on one point. Assume for the sake of argument that the main thing that Brown needs to work on is defense. Obviously there is no advantage to moving him to AAA for that.

    Might there be an advantage to keeping him in AA? One would think that, given the fact that there are few real prospects in AAA, and several in AA, the Phillies (and other teams) might staff AA with “better” insturctional staffs (coaches, etc.) than their AAA coaching staff. Is that in fact the case? And if so, might he get better instruction vis a vis his defense in AA?

    Like

  49. NL needs to add the DH, sports evolve over time, there was a time when 8 balls were reqiured for a walk, there was no such thing as called strike, a rule change was made at one point that no base could be made on a foul ball. At one point a bat could be flat on one side. A batter once had the right to call for high or low pitches. A little over 100 years a fouth strike was needed if it was called. In 1903 the AL decided that foul balls should be strikes. There was a time when 500 feet was pretty standard to centerfield. Thats just some of how baseball has evolved.

    Other sports have done it too, hockey finally allowed the 2 line pass. In football we see what closley is related to this debate, the use of specialized players on 3rd down etc…

    Pitchers add nothing to the hitting aspect of the game, its not fun because of strategy either, a pitcher should concentrate soley on pitching, they shouldn’t have to worry about base running or batting. It could screw up the rythym plus there are injuries to think about. Imagine Roy Halladay getting a season ending injury while base runnning for a minute.

    Again sports evolve, to improve the experience for the fans, and safety for the players. And thats what this all about a good expereince and a good game overall. the pitcher batting adds nothing to the overall experience except for being a rally killer.

    Like

  50. Larry I agree, there is nothing to gain by moving Brown to Lehigh Valley, the pitching prospects are better in AA, especially in the Eastern League. As for his defense which is the main issue here, there is nothing to gain by moving him to AAA

    Like

  51. I’ll take the National League without the DH. There is absolutley no strategy over in the other league. Anybody can manage some of those games, where pitchers generally stay in longer, without any double-switches. I would rule out the pitchers getting injured. That’s a weak excuse. The games fine without thr DH.

    Like

  52. I am grudgingly begining to think that the DH should come to the NL. I am mindful of the tradition, but, at some point, it just becomes a drag on the game – I really just despise watching the pitcher hit and, on defense, I’m not all that thrilled when we get the pitcher out. Yes, there’s a lot of strategy involved – that’s the only viable argument against the change, in my view – it creates a problem that a team has to solve. However, I agree that the game has evolved and it’s time for a change, much as the NBA created a 3 point line, the NFL put the field goal post at the back of the end zone and modified rules that prevented receivers from being mauled, it’s time for a change in baseball. Furthermore, although the strategy of dealing with the pitcher in the line-up is certainly interesting, to me, it’s more a forced problem than a strategy. If a guy is pitching well, I’d rather see him stay in a game than be removed just because he is forced to hit. And he’s another thing – it puts the NL at a HUGE disadvantage both during interleague play and the WS. Essentially, because there is no DH, NL teams sacrifice that slot for an extra pitcher. In the AL, the DH is far more important and, so, you can stock the line-up with a hitter and lose the extra pitcher. When the Phils played the Twins, the Twins could throw Jim Thome in there, either as a pinch hitter or a DH. We couldn’t recruit a Jim Thome, however, because he actually wanted at bats. The issue is similar with Boston – Greg Dobbs (or Ben Francisco) versus David Ortiz? We lose that every time. And don’t get me started with Matsui . . .

    Seriously, the AL clobbers the hell out of NL teams due, in large part (but not exclusively), to the strategic advantage of the DH.

    Like

  53. The DH rule is a joke, without strategy , to me baseball would take a step down, love a 2-1 game and the pitcher is due up and the manager has to either keep him in or lift him, say the 6th inning. The manager is in a tough spot, to make the call. in the american league they dont have that, and its not fair to not let the pitcher who is part of the game not bat.

    Like

  54. I don’t want to engage a long debate. I’ll just say that I’ve been to a few AAA games with the DH lately where there was PLENTY of late game strategy. But that’s largely irrelevant to a Phillies prospect site.

    AA may have better pitching prospects, but AAA has better pitchers.

    Like

  55. Jeremy, I completely disagree. At AAA, Brown will face AAAA pitchers who will try to trick him rather than over power him. He could get good experience.

    Like

  56. I get a laugh at all the “experts” who say that Rizzotti can’t play the outfield. How can they be so sure unless they have actually seen him in the outfield.

    For all you young dudes – if Gus Zernial could play LF for the Phila A’s in the 50s, then I think almost any professional baseball player can do it. Zernial was a big, ponderous player who could really hit but couldn’t move too well. His hitting clearly compensated for the balls he couldn’t reach. He was a definite asset to the team. Yes I actually saw Zernial play so don’t get too hostile to me (remember I’m old).

    Like

  57. I’m firmly in the camp that believes the Designated Hitter is an abomination. If you can’t even play 1st base, it’s time to retire and try your hand at competitive eating.

    Like

  58. If the pitching is better in AA than in AAA, then why do so many top prospects struggle with AAA pitching? Examples this year being Michael Taylor, Desmond Jennings, and Jesus Montero.

    Like

  60. To say that the pitching is better in AA than in AAA is false. The prospects are better, but they are learning HOW to pitch. The AAA guys know how to pitch and it can do nothing but help Brown to experience smarter pitchers.

    Like

  61. Lenny, I can appreciate that standard but the problem is that Rizzotti has never played an inning of the outfield. That tells me that a lot of smart baseball people look at Rizzotti and do not see an outfielder. As far as Gus Zernier, I’m looking at the teams he played on and I see an awful lot of teams that either led the league in allowing runs or came close to it. Now a lot of that is the overall teams involved. But it seems to me that maybe he shouldn’t have been playing in the outfield.

    (Completely off topic, but that ’52 A’s team defines the Moneyball spirit. Slow, ponderous power hitter in left, and three guys drawing 100+ walks in the lineup. Led the league in team OBP.)

    Like

  62. Funny because I get a laugh at all the “experts” who use the old line of “throw em out there and find out if they can play ____” and then point to some defensive butcher who played once as proof that it works.

    I’m just guessing that at some point in his career, the Phillies probably send Rizzotti to the OF to shag a few flies and quickly realized he doesn’t have the skill set.

    Simple fact is that the Phillies have nothing to gain from preventing a player from showing additional talent. IF Rizzotti could play an adequate LF he immediately becomes a much better prospect.

    As for the DH coming to the NL, it’ll never happen. Do you think the 16 NL owners who are interested in adding a $10+ DH to their rosters to replace a $1M bench guy?

    Like

  63. The bench guys work fine as a DH. They don’t have to be a DH all the time, they can still platoon while giving the positional players ‘half’ days off in the DH slot.

    I just really want the leagues to unify their rules.

    Like

  64. Speaking of “experts” I picked up an old preseason ESPN magazine while having my car fixed. It featured the Mariners.lol
    The Riz should try the outfield maybe this winter. But who the hell is worried about the ERA in Wehigh. Luzinski wasn’t exactly perfect in left. Ask his manager.

    Like

  65. Freddy Galvis is playing long ball. Sunday he hit one over the 358 ft. sign in right and tonight just hit one into the pool in right field for his second homer of the season.

    Like

  68. Rizz is batting .349 in 37 AA games but his name doesn’t show up in the league leaders on milb. Does anyone know how many games must be played before a batters average is shown?

    Like

  70. Rizz almost had # 2 on the nigh, was off the wall in left for a double. Needs the tripile for the cycle. Not gonna happen with him lol. But I will say I’m amazed by Rizzoti’s flag pole to flag pole power.

    Like

  72. Rizzotti 3-3 HR,2B,1B, BA now .354, man this kid is on fire!!! So under the radar the last 2 years…Where did he come from???

    Like

  75. He keeps hitting even close to this, he will find a job, and he may be putting himself in contention for a PH job in Sept–a secret weapon.

    Like

  78. Man, they have a Murderer’s Row in Reading. Spidale, Brown, Bozied, Rizzotti, all on fire.

    Like

  79. Of all the prospects we’ve followed since this site began, I must say the overnight emergence of Matt Rizzotti has to be the most surprising, not so much the power, but the really high batting average. It’s almost like a complete disconnect.

    Also, Alan, you are right that an extended DH argument does not really belong on this site, but it is relevant to the Phils to a limited extent because, with our current crop of players, the addition of a DH could be extremely beneficial to our team.

    Like

  80. Well regarding Rizzotti, his OB% was always solid, as was hit OPS. He had a good eye and was a 6th rounder, so he wasn’t an awful prospect. Biggest surprise for me is his power in AA…

    Like

  81. Pretty exciting night for the system…the bonus was seeing Zagurski out there dealing for the Phils!

    You probably won’t ever have another night where both Galvis and Gose go yard, so enjoy it.

    Rizz is just ridiculous right now…I’d love to see him get a cameo in September to get a little showcase action for the offseason.

    Like

  82. Rizz’s power shouldn’t be tooo surprising, I seem to remember a scouting report having him at 70 (20 to 80 scale) and having the ability to hit it out anywhere.

    Like

  83. Look at the SONAR scores developed by the site owner. Rizzotti was #22 in all of the minors last year. Sounds like James was confused with it but decided Rizzotti could become a okay hitter for someone.
    It is not like he came out of complete nowhere. James can put another mark on his side about SONAR’s value.

    Like

  84. Sorry- all of minor League 1st Basemen in A-ball or above. Not all players in the minors. oops. need to proofread.

    Like

  87. Anyone know anything about Miguel Alvarez? Small sample size, but he’s raking so far in Williamsport. Anything on him would be nice

    Like

  88. I don’t know what the Phillies are gonna do with Rizzoti, I’d imagine that they would want to dictate what happens with him. The mere fact that they gave him the honors of minor league player of the month for May shows me they are aware they have something here or they were advertising. Regaudless I don’t think they will just let him go so easily and get nothing for him. The kind of power display he is putting on has made him valuable whether that value is for the orginization as.a bat (which I prefer) or as piece to be traded for some other need; I don’t know.

    Like

  89. Maybe Rizzoti could be packaged with someone for a 3 or 4th starter or a left handed reliever. Id say sending Rizzoti and Mayberry could warrant us a decent arm for the rest of the season and further.

    Like

  90. Reading’s own Murderer’s Row in its last 10 games
    (I perfer “Route 61 Sluggers”

    2 through 5 in the line up

    2) Michael Spidale- batting .406, 2 doubles only 3 RBI’s and 1 HR, but has scored 15 times in the past 10 games OBP .459, SLG .563
    3) Domonic Brown- batting .385, 3 doubles 11 RBI’s 5 HR’s OBP .442, SLG .846
    4) Tagg Bozied- batting .368 4 doubles, 14 RBI’s 3 HR’s OBP .405, SLG .711
    5) Matt Rizzotti- batting .417 3 doubles, 16 RBI’s 5 HR’s OBP .447 SLG .917

    Mike is obviously doing the contact hitting rather than power (also 2 of the games he DH’d just one AB) but as a group in the past 10 games these guys have combined for
    -12 doubles
    -44 RBI’s
    – 14 HR’s

    Like

  91. Every once in a while a player comes along who gets better the higher he goes up the latter. A logical plan would be to advance the Riz to AAA and get him ready for a September
    call up. Provided he keeps hitting of course,
    If he is successful, trade value goes up and he help the big team. Two months ago tradenics would of sent him packing for a bag of donuts, so what is to lose?

    Like

  92. A problem with moving Riz to AAA is when and where will he play? Games against Syracuse, Buffalo, Louisville, Indianapolis and Gwinnett don’t use a DH. They are all NL team affiliates. Between July 31 and August 10, LHV plays only NL affiliates. Do you sit Andy Tracy when you can’t use the DH to play Riz? Tracy is an extremely popular player that people come to see. LHV is a Phils affiliate (or maybe I should say aPHILiate) so preparing prospects is job #1 but they also want to sell tickets. Let Riz play in Reading.

    Like

  93. Bellman–
    You are right on. With Dobbs coming down, it is a traffic jam at the corners in LV to say the least

    Like

  94. We’re all excited about Rizzotti but let’s be reasonable. He’s only played 37 games above A+ ball and he’s 24 years old. How much are prospect mavens talking about Alex Presley, Lucas Duda or Zach Lutz?

    Like

  95. Tracy can sit once in a while. Riz can use the off time to try outfield practice.
    Look I can find millions of reason not to something but in situation GO is the word.

    Like

Comments are closed.