195 thoughts on “Carrasco scratched, Marson/Donald not in lineup

  1. Likely Lee or Washburn, the Jays have no interest in Carrasco and very limited interest in Marson (they already have a top catching prospect). Didn’t the Mariners and Orioles also scout last nights game?

  2. Sherill would be nice…though way too costly. Do the Orioles have any legit RH bats they’d be willing to give up?

  3. Wow something is defnitely up? Donald played well last night too. I would hate to see Marson be a throw-in guy in any trade. I think he can play at the next level.

  4. Reports on internet are that Phillies may not want Halladay to start tonight. Ironpigs radio

  5. The trade market for relievers is brutal…Baltimore will want too much for Sherril and there are no righty bats on that team that I know of that would be worth it.

    I say you go get a starter and hope you get reinforcements in August with guys coming back from the DL and maybe Myers.

  6. i think this is for Lee and that makes a lot of sense. if i had a choice of
    – Lee for CC, Marson, Donald plus 1
    or
    – Halladay for Drabek, Brown and Happ

    i would take the Lee trade in a second. there really isn’t much difference between Lee and Halladay and i would love to keep drabek and brownie.

  7. I think you should expect that a deal for Lee would require Taylor or Brown in addition to other names. Let’s not kid ourselves that Halladay and Lee are equal because they’re not but i don’t disagree with getting lee if the price is less.

  8. I am hearing its a three way trade, Drabek, Happ and Donald go to Toronto, Carassco to Washington, Halladay and Wiginham to the Phillies

  9. I really don’t think that there is much difference between Lee and Halladay. Take the emotions out of it.

    yes, halladay is better, but:
    – he is marginally better and with our line-up, i would bet that his projected wins would be almost nil.
    – lee is 2 years younger
    – lee is cheaper so that allows us to acquire a second player (either bench depth or bullpen depth)

    if what we are reading is correct (i.e. Lee saves Drabek and Brown), then i would do the Lee deal over the Halladay deal in a second!

  10. Most of our top opponents (LAD, STL, BOS) have RH heavy lineups. Lee has sucked against RH hitters this year…despite having a neutral career split.

    It’d be a slight concern.

  11. I’d be okay with it if Taylor, Brown Drabek and Knapp weren’t involved.

    That’d be a smart move by Rube I think.

  12. @skunky
    No way, now that same ESPN story has been edited and suggests package is Carrasco, an unnamed position player, May and Knapp.

  13. I agree Skunky…althought I’ll let you do the kissing…there’s no way we get Lee for just those three. That deal would have to include one of our premium prospects…maybe Knapp?

  14. I’d still do it. I love Knapp’s upside, but come on he’s in a-ball. May is intruiging, but I’d still drop them for Lee in a second.

  15. Not to mention he will be a type-A after this season- we can recoup what we lose at the lower levels of the minors almost instantly.

  16. We could sign Colvin to replace May…still it would show that the Indians have scouted us well to pick those two.

  17. May and Knapp would hurt. I would be willing to include one of them along with Carrasco, Donald, and Marson. Both is too much. Signing Colvin, like NEPP said, should be a top priority if this happens.

  18. I’d do May, Knapp, Carrasco and Donald for Cliff Lee. The odds of May and Knapp panning out is pretty low (not them personally just A ball pitchers in general due to injuries).

    It’d be a good trade.

  19. From Yahoo Sports:

    “If the Phillies turn to Cleveland and Lee as a fallback plan to Halladay, pitcher Kyle Kendrick(notes), just recalled from Triple-A, is among the pieces expected to go to Cleveland.”

  20. I think I might want to hang onto Carrasco if they dealt both May and Knapp. Reasoning is that he is a high end talent that may just need the AAA year to work out the kinks. He is much closer to the majors and is undervalued because of this year’s performance. Hopefully we can see something from Cosart and Shreve by the end of the year, as that would soften the loss of Knapp and/or May.

  21. you can’t be serious that giving up May and Knapp for last year’s CY Young winner would be too much for you to do. These kids are talented, but about 3-4 years away from coming the the majors, if that happens at all. all of the regulars on this blog know that i think that knapp is special and i am intreagued by may. but these kids are low probability and can easily be replaced by kids like colvin. Getting Lee at the top of our rotation makes us much better and if we keep lower risk and higher ceiling prospects like brown and drabek it is a no brainer.

  22. FYI – Ironpigs TV (you can watch it online at the local news station’s site) suggested that Donald would be working back into the swing of things: 1 game on, 1 off, 2 games on, 1 off, 3 games on, 1 off, etc.

    Doesn’t mean he won’t get traded, though!

  23. Losing May & Knapp would hurt, but not nearly as much as losing a more advanced high ceiling pitching prospect like Drabek. May & Knapp could be replaced fairly easily with the two compensatory picks we’ll receive for losing Lee to free agency.

  24. ****you can’t be serious that giving up May and Knapp ****

    I agree completely. They are A Ball pitchers…they won’t be missed.

  25. Listen to WIP now. Gargano is reporting that he has talked to people and deal is on the table but is not finalized. He is also reporting that red sox deal for halladay is not accurate he says there is a potential deal but yahoo’s report cant be confirmed. He is also reporting phillies brass is huddled in a meeting discussing trade.

  26. I doubt that WIP would have better sources than MLBTradeRumors.

    Not to bash WIP or anything…but they do suck.

  27. Can we compete with four lefties in the rotation? Has it ever been done before? What would the rotation even look like? Where would Lopez and Marinez fit, if at all. I am all for holding onto Drabek and Brown, but Halladay fits much better into this rotation than Lee does.

  28. If they can get Lee without giving up Brown, Drabek or Happ I’m all for it. I was against Lee because I didn’t think he would be much cheaper, prospect-wise, and not as good a fit for the team.

  29. As long as we pull the trigger on either Halladay or Lee and we don’t give up 2 of the big three then I will be VERY happy! Losing one of Drabek, Taylor and Brown will hurt, but losing 2 would really suck.

    Haha, I’d get over it though once Halladay pitches a couple CGs! 😛

  30. Hamels has reverse splits so you cant look at him as just a LHP.

    Lee has neutral splits for his career so even he’d be a fairly non-issue.

    Not sure about Happ and Moyer’s splits but I think they’re standard LHP splits.

  31. Pedro has bullpen incentives in his deal. If we don’t trade Happ I see him going into the bullpen, which might be a good thing considering how expensive the reliever market looks this year. No one decent besides Sherril and Bell is out there and the Pads want a king’s ransom for Bell.

  32. Hate to give up knapp,but Lee is a big upgrade, can’t see boston getting Halladay for Bucholtz, he is like all Boston prospect untouchable and great, why is it they have all these great prospect yet they are always signing big name free agents? Is it possible a lot of these guys are overated.

  33. Remember the deal is not just May and Knapp. If it is a 5 for 1 with Carrasco, Marson, and Donald – that is a lot. Carrasco is a high celing talent. Marson could be on the roster starting next year. And Donald is insurance in case Rollins is on the down side of his peak.

  34. Agree 100% with PP fan. If this deal is on the table it better get done— Knapp and May have really great upside but being upset about losing them for a Cy Young winner is madness! Talent at that low a level can be replaced by international signings, signing more high-cieling highschool players from this years draft class AND the compensation picks we will recieve. Win win all around!

  35. Regarding Lee, the best thing about him is the low price for next year. Halladay is a much better pitcher. While Lee won the Cy Young last year it was more of a good pitcher on a really hot streak. His stats this year are good, but not great. They are more reflective of his value. Halladay is a dominant pitcher at the top of his game with a pitch arsenal ideal for the Phillies stadium. Lee would be our second best starter. Halladay would be our number one.

  36. I don’t get it. If it’s Lee for Carrasco, a “top position-player prospect yet to be determined” (Taylor?), Knapp and May, that would leave the Phils with a rotation of 4 lefties and a righty. I just don’t see it. I still think Halladay’s the guy. They’ll go back to JP and say, Cleveland’s gonna take this deal for Lee. And then they’ll call his bluff.

  37. I do not understand some people saying “no Lee”. Why? We have enough Cy Young winners here? Be happy that we are able to get another front of the rotation starter to help this team. “No Lee”…give me a break. You can prefer someone else (I prefer Doc), but to say that you don’t want one of the best pitchers in baseball is ridiculous.

  38. on foxsports.com, the phillies have reportedly offered Knapp, Carrasco, Marson, and Donald to Cleveland for Lee and possibly another player. Knapp shouldnt be included and the phils should substitute a guy like May or Savery instead.

  39. For his career (Cliff Lee)

    vs RH – .263 avg, .321 obp, .737 ops
    vs LH – .265 avg, .307 obp, .710 ops

    Not a huge difference there.

  40. 11:09am: Rosenthal and Morosi report that the Phillies are discussing a trade for Cliff Lee and possibly another player for Knapp, Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson.

    10:54am: ESPN.com’s Buster Olney hears that the Phils may try to acquire George Sherrill If they can’t trade for Halladay or Lee.

    10:52am: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report that Jason Knapp is the centerpiece of the Phillies’ offer for Lee. The Phils, who are also involved in talks for Jarrod Washburn, would also deal other pieces to the Indians.

    FOX also reports that the Dodgers were planning on making a “hard push” for Lee today.

  41. Knapp seems like the linchpin for that trade, I strongly doubt he’s substitutable.

  42. The anti-Lee “four lefties in the rotation?!?” backlash reminds me of the anti-Ibanez “three straight lefties in the middle of the order?!?” backlash, and look how that worked out.

  43. I would not want to acquire Sherrill if the reports on Myers are true. We can acquire bullpen help in August in a waiver deal if needed. That will give them another month to evaluate Myers while also seeing how healthy everyone else is, including Lidge.

  44. max Says:
    July 29, 2009 at 11:09 am

    on foxsports.com, the phillies have reportedly offered Knapp, Carrasco, Marson, and Donald to Cleveland for Lee and possibly another player. Knapp shouldnt be included and the phils should substitute a guy like May or Savery instead.

    —-

    Let’s just give them KK and expect them to be happy. These are aces people. If you can get Lee without ONE of the big three Ruben is a GENIUS!

    Stop being greedy!

  45. Saying Knapp and May can’t go is ridiculous.

    Take a step back and realize you are trading for last year’s Cy Young winner and realize that Knapp and May are teenagers in Low A Ball.

    JD Durbin was a can’t miss pitcher in Low A too…he was actually the #66 prospect by Baseball America at one point…

  46. I wonder who the “possibly another player” is? Who else do we want from the Indians? Is it a salary dump or Cleveland sweetening the pot?

  47. If the deal goes through for Lee…for what has been mentioned…get this done. I love Halladay but look at the rotation for this year and next with the addition of Lee this year and Drabek next. And we keep Happ too?(!). Brown and Taylor?

    No disrespect to the guys mentioned in the proposed deals, because they are all good solid prospects. But I’ll pick up Lee at the airport.

  48. If you are asking me, I don’t care at all. If they get Lee, I’ll be psyched. I just think the coach and GM would prefer a righty if they are keeping Happ. Just a gut feeling. That’s all.

  49. This site doesn’t list Trevor May at all. Anyone know anything about him? he is the Phils 38th ranked prospect, but that’s all I can find.

  50. And as for the “4 lefties” argument, Roderigo Lopez has a .297 BAA lefties in 268.1 IP in the past 3 years. I would take Lee’s career .265 line in a second.

  51. If fox sports is using the same AP article that yahoo sports is using, they don’t say “this is the offer,” they just point out that Carrasco, Marson, and Donald aren’t in the line-up. We already know that Donald is probably a coincidence, as is Marson. I hate reading between the lines.

  52. I have a serious question about Lee — how good is he?

    His first full year in the majors was terrible. Then, he had two decent years, followed by another terrible year. Then, he comes back last year and wins the Cy Young, and follows it up with a very good year this year.

    Who is the real Cliff Lee?

    That’s my biggest concern about him. Has he turned the corner, or is he just riding a long hot streak?

  53. I haven’t seen enough of Knapp or form an educated opinion, nor do I remember what Halladay’s stuff was like before he dropped to a 3/4 delivery, but I don’t see the Jason Knapp/Roy Halladay comparison or get why that scout went so far as to call Knapp a “Halladay clone”. As a prospect, Halladay was taller, leaner, more advanced and therefore more highly regarded. Jason Knapp already throws harder than Halladay ever has, but he lacks Halladay’s arsenal. The most important and relevant thing they have in common and that neither is likely to pitch for the Phillies if these rumors become fact.

  54. Those are pretty legit questions G$– but considering he will only be a 2 month rental I will gladly take a guy riding a hot streak– esp since he’ll be moving into the NL.

    His career is a lot like Cole Hamels– steaky lefty with a lot of talent who is sporadically effective but incredibly dominant for long stretches of time.

  55. 11:36am: Rob Maaddi of the AP (via the Miami Herald) hears that the Phils offered the Indians a package of players for Lee, but didn’t include Kyle Drabek in the proposal.

  56. Skunky, he is not a 2 month rental. he is signed next year, and who knows, he could get an extension.

  57. If Rosenthal’s report is right–Carrasco, Knapp, Marson and Donald for Lee *plus* another player–this is an amazing deal, like one of those off the wall proposals you hear from callers on WIP. I find it hard to believe that they would be able to pry a Cy Young winner with an option year left away without giving up one of either Taylor/Brown though.

  58. It was probably the same scout who said Bastardo was a clone of Johan Santana, everyone sees different things, all thats important is that the team your trying to trade him to sees the same or more value in him than the Phillies do

  59. Honestly I think that I would rather trade drabek then Knapp. Drabek already has a surgury under his belt and doesn’t have the prototipical build. Rember Knapp could be where drakek is now next year. Knapp has a projectable body throws in the high 90’s and has had a higher strike out rate then Kyle ever had. If it is me and I can get halliday for drabek, Happ, and say Donald and marson. I do it.

    I also think that it is funny that the value of donald and marson and carrasco have declied so much in one year. Last year if you said we were going to trade them people would have gone crazy. They were like 3 of our top 4 prospects. So things can change alot in a year. Give the Jays Drabek and see if you can move in another player for Brown.

  60. Skunky-

    I think if the Phils give up all that talent for Lee, they’ll definitely pick up his (relatively cheap) $9 million option for next year.

    I’m not sure I agree with the Hamels comparison. I think Hamels is the more talented pitcher. He’s still young. Once he figures it all out, I think what we saw from him the last couple of years (and the last couple of starts) will be the norm. Then again, I just don’t know enough about Lee.

  61. Steve-

    My understanding is that Knapp throws a hard fastball, and that’s it. He’s still trying to develop secondary pitches. A hard fastball will get you a lot of strikeouts. When all you have is a hard fastball, it will get you a 5+ ERA (which I believe is what he’s got). I’m not saying that he won’t be the better pitcher down the road, but still several years away from even sniffing the majors, whereas Drabek could be ready later this year. There’s no comparison at this point.

  62. Here’s how I see it. The systems have four crown jewels right now: Drabek, Taylor, Brown and Knapp. If you give up only the youngest and least experienced one (Knapp) and you get Cliff Lee for 2 years, Ruben is a genius.

    That guy (Ruben) is winning me over in a big way. He understands the value of his farm system, but he is also looking to improve his club now and for the future.

  63. G$
    I agree that as we sit here today Kyle is the better pitcher, but in my opionion Knapp WILL be better and soon. He has a more projectable body, less injury history, a better fastball (although drabek’s is very good as well) and from what i hear a deveoping slider that could turn into an out pitch. He was a North East guy so didn’t pitch nearly as much so he is still trying to put everything together. He still has a very repspecable 4 era and 111k in 85ip. and is almost 3 years younger.

  64. Knapp is 18 and in Low A…he’s years away at best.

    Yes, he has enormous upside…no one is arguing that.

  65. Why Ruben is a genius if he makes this trade without surrendering Drabek.

    What this means is that, by the middle of next year, the rotation may be Hamels, Blanton, Lee, Happ and Drabek.

    Folks, that’s a starting pitching staff designed to dominate. Combined with the team’s hitting, they would be loaded . . . positively loaded. Boy am I pumped.

  66. 11:54am: Rosenthal and Morosi say the Blue Jays lose leverage if the Phillies acquire Cliff Lee. The Jays would then have to accept an offer from Boston or consider other, possibly inferior, proposals. The Yankees, Rangers and Dodgers are still “on the periphery” of the Halladay talks.

  67. people are saying Knapp is only in A ball and is unpredicatable and he could turn up like J.D. Durbin. When someone is compared to Josh Johnson and Roy Halladay by MLB scouts that is a signal that this guy is going to be good and should be untouchable. He is said to be better then Drabek in two years. This guy will have much more value in a few years and if he is 19 and already a top 50 prospect, when hes 21 he will probably be a top 10 prospect. Im saying that you can substitute Savery or perhaps Worley in because the Phillies could do that and not get the extra player from the Indians in return and these guys are more major league ready for the Indians who plan to contend most likely the next two years.

  68. 12:03pm: Gordon Edes and Tim Brown of Yahoo report that the Phillies appear to be “on the verge” of acquiring Cliff Lee from the Indians for Carrasco, Knapp and at least two of Donald, Marson and Michael Taylor.

  69. G$, you are talking about Knapp being more durable, isn’t he out with an injury right now? And we all know, almost all pitchers come back stronger after Tommy John these days.

  70. @max

    You are insane. These other teams aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to accept table scraps for a Cy Young winner.

  71. Knepp
    I don’t agree with him being years away. I see him as 1 year behind Drabek. Don’t forget Drabek started the year in A ball. I think both are excellent prospects, but I would rather give up Drabek for Halliday, then Knapp for Lee. Granted that is not an apple for apple compaison becuase the Halliday deal includes others, I am just saying I like Knapp more then Drabek.

  72. I think hoping that the Phils substitute Knapp is absolutely unfounded wishful thinking. But DAMNNNNN if they could I would be smitten.

  73. “Gordon Edes and Tim Brown of Yahoo report that the Phillies appear to be “on the verge” of acquiring Cliff Lee from the Indians for Carrasco, Knapp and at least two of Donald, Marson and Michael Taylor.”

    If Taylor is concluded this makes a lot more sense and isn’t the automatic win for the Phils that we originally thought.

  74. I agree with Catch 22, that does look like an awesome rotation.
    I sense that the Phils are still trying to pry Halladay from the Jays, but more on their terms. With this note by blues, I think that even more. Forcing the Jays’ hand. Maybe we’ll offer something to the Jays now that is less than they originally wanted but more than we originally wanted to give up..

  75. Max:

    We all know that Knapp may end up being great, but the whole goal is to continue the championship run and, at the same time, feed the major league team with prime talent. And let’s not forget that Knapp is several years away and may never be good. If the only top talent on the team that you trade is Knapp, it is well worth it to get Cliff Lee, who is a freaking Cy Young award winner and has an ERA in the low 3s in the American League, in a good hitters ballpark. Having Lee will make the Phillies the NL favorite to win the pennant and will make them one of the top contenders to win the WS not only this year, but next year. He also happens to be relatively affordable for the Phillies. If the only top prospect they give up to get him is Jason Knapp, it’s a fabulous deal. Simply fabulous.

  76. Steve, I didn’t say anything about Knapp being more durable. All I said is that he’s still several years behind Drabek in terms of development. That’s why Drabek is the better prospect right now. Anything can happen to either player in the next three years.

  77. I will say though that substituting Savery or worley for Knapp is not an realalistic substitution. How about Taylor instead.

  78. Drabek jumped up fast because he’s 21…Knapp is all of 18. Thats a huge difference. Yes, he could be great but he could also tear his rotator cuff and never be heard from again. From a risk standpoint, its smarter to trade him.

  79. If you know he’s due up soon, and they’re playing defense at the moment (and there’s no defensive substitution)….then common sense says he’s still in the game.

  80. How am I an idiot for saying the phils can substitute worley or savery for Knapp. If the phils were to do that, the Indians wouldnt give the Phils the extra player in return presumably. Also, if they give Taylor in this deal it wouldnt be worth it. The deal with Knapp, Carrasco, Marson, and Donald is okay but the only thing tough to swallow is Knapp. I dont understand why the Indians would want Marson. They have Martinez, Shoppach and one of the top ten prospects in baseball in catcher Carlos Santana. Donald will be next years super utility guy, Carrasco seems like a Fausto Carmona to me. He has great stuff and may be amazing one year and the next he can be bad. With Taylor, the Phils have a five tool player who will be ready next year. I think the Phils should trade Werth in the offseason for pitching/prospects because he has great value and he’s in the final yr of his contract. Also, the Phillies would have a cheaper alternative in Taylor and he would be able to slip into the 6th or 7th hole and produce as a right handed bat. If not they could always hold onto Taylor until Werth leaves as a free agent. If not, they will have a Ryan Howard situation.

  81. common sense says I’m looking at a box score and know he’s due up. I have no idea if he’s in the field. But thanks for your help.

  82. Knapp is rumored to be the “Centerpiece” of the Lee Deal…I doubt they allow a substitution of the #1 prospect in the deal…just sayin’.

  83. Does anyone know precisely what Lee’s contract situation is? Is he signed through 2010? I’ve heard there is a club option for 2010 or 2011. Does anyone know which year? Does the club option continue in effect with a trade to the Phillies? Would greatly appreciate the info.

  84. Yea, while we’re at it let’s substitute Galvis for Donald and Naughton for Marson. They all play the same positions- who cares what thier names are!

  85. Max,
    There is no way to know if the additional player makes the deal better or worse for the phils, it could be that they are throwing in a bad contract. As far as including Taylor, you have to include value if you are going to take value out of the deal and out field is the deepest position in the system, worley or savery is not value.

    Nepp
    I know he is only 18 but that is what makes him so attractive. Yeah he could tear a rotator cuff, but so could Drabek and Kyle already has a significant injury history. I would say that because of injury history and body type and the fact that kyle throws a curve which i very hard on the arm, that Knapp actually represents less risk even is he is 1 yr to 1.5 years behing Drabek.

  86. ToddZoleckiKen Rosenthal reports the deal is Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson and Jason Donald for Cliff Lee and one other.

    Would be an amazing deal for the Phillies, if true.

  87. i know sometimes i sound irrational but its because im really against trading high ceiling and top prospects. I pray Taylor isnt included though

  88. If the deal includes Taylor, I’m ok with the deal. If the deal does not include Taylor, I’m ecstatic!

  89. We have to give up someone to get a quality pitcher and if it’s Knapp rather then Drabek, it’s a good deal.

  90. You’re right phuturephillies, that’s a great deal for the Phillies.

    I also think it’s a very good deal for the Indians as well. They’re a team that might be thinking about semi-rebuilding, and I think all of those players have the chance to be serviceable major league players (with Knapp being a future #1 if the stars allign correctly)

  91. So if this perceived deal is true, Lee and Francisco, our only real problem would be the bullpen. Could anyone see the phils makin another move?

  92. If we get Lee and give up the “high ceiling and top prospect” and we don’t sign him to an extension in a year’s time then we can two HIGH draft picks. Knapp wasn’t a first rounder and look at him. We would, most likely, be getting a first rounder and another if we don’t keep him after next season.

    That is the other major selling point. You aren’t just trading for 2 Octobers, you are trading for at least two Octs if you get him and if you don’t resign him, two high draft picks, maybe another Knapp and other.

    As long as the farm continues to be restocked, we shouldn’t worry about it. The farm is there for this reason too. To help the big club any way it can. Not all prospects pan out, but we Lee is currently a known commodity.

  93. If that’s the deal, I’d take it in a heartbeat. But why would Cleveland agree to that? They have no need for Marson, with Santana as the future starter and Shoppach a capable backup. Seems to me they would want an outfield prospect over a catching prospect.

  94. JP Ricciardi must be quaking in his boots now that the Phillies are hot on the trail of Cliff Lee.

    The idea that he needs to be “highly motivated” to trade Halladay is silly, he’s already tipped his hand that ownership and Roy want him to deal. Would the Phillies put Cole Hamels on the market and say “we’ve got to be highly motivated to move him.” No, it goes without saying anyone is available if you give them the sun the moon and the stars. There’s no point in announcing it unless you’re already motivated. It’s about as believable as his “soft” deadline was. Someone else said it well: the genie is out of the bottle.

    Meanwhile, no one will give him close to what the Phillies would. Halladay will lose nearly half his trade value after Friday because he’ll be good for 1 postseason, not 2.

    Can he survive trading Halladay to a division rival? No way. Jays fans will run him out of town after the first two times Halladay pounds the Jays into sand, never mind the parade.

    JP is on the ropes. Let’s not give up on Halladay quite yet, the asking price will come down or JP will lose his job and everyone knows it.

  95. According to Ken Rosenthal, who is never wrong:

    “The Phillies have reached agreement with the Indians on a trade that would bring them left-hander Cliff Lee and outfielder Ben Francisco for Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, according to major-league sources.

    The deal is pending a review of medical records.”

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866900/Sources:-Phils-in-discussions-for-Indians'-ace-Lee

  96. I think the pen will work itself out. Romero, Durbin and Condrey will all be back eventually and Myers will hopefully be back at some point also, and Pedro might even be able to pitch out of the pen. We still have a set-up man and a closer, as well as a slew of minor leaguers and AAAA guys who can contribute, including Roderigo Lopez.

  97. Holy $h*t!!!!

    If this gets done the way it is reported then, WOW! What negotiating from Drabek, Brown and Happ for Halladay to this for Lee. Wow!

    It does bring to question the Pedro Martinez deal though. I thought Happ was a sure goner.

  98. dwarf Says:
    July 29, 2009 at 12:47 pm

    now trade happ, drabek and brown for halliday and this thing is over

    HAHA! Awesome!

  99. I would love this Lee deal. On a side note, how many options are left for Mayberry? Was this his 1st option yr?

  100. if this is true…this is an out of the park home run of a deal. i like getting ben francisco too as we really need some bench help. and he is a respectable right handed hitter. mayberry is going back to LV.

  101. Why is Gargano calling Lee a #2? He’s, at worse, a 1-a. He hasn’t won a World Series MVP, but Cole hasn’t won a Cy Young in the AL.

  102. cleveland is supposidly in the middle of talks with boston for martinez, thats why marson is important. i think toronto,s going to make one more push with the phillies accepting less than they wanted. btw no taylor to cleveland imo. next year the phils become a 4 man of rotation. werth isnt some bum. we only have an idea what taylor can do, we know what werth can do. re: 4 lefthanders its that you cannot take each pitcher in a vacuum. individually they,ll all good but together they condition another teams bats to a similar look. thats why rh, lh, rh, lh is ideal. confusing the hitter. i think?

  103. Off on another tangent. Scott Mathison is pitching really well in clearwater. I know it is a small sample size, but I would imagine he would move quickly if he shows his are can handle it. Maybe bull pen help in setember? If myers can add some to bullpen and so can scott that is two potential power arms.

  104. So wait, we could still trade Drabek, Brown and Happ for Halladay? Or perhaps Brown, Happ, Bastardo & May?

  105. Honestly, this is a great trade for both sides. Marson and Carrasco are still top prospects despite slow seasons. All 3 will likely be on their 25 man roster next year.

  106. I’m starting to like May more the Knapp anyway. Knapp could become a number 1, but is probably a bullpen guy as most of these guys turn into. May is a really solid bet to be a 2/3. He throws in the low 90’s(91-94) and is 6’5 so could add more. If he can add another plus pitch, look out.

  107. Why is everyone in such a hurry to trade Jason Werth? He’s having a monster season. The whole point of the minors is to find players who can contribute in the bigs. Werth is doing that as we speak.

  108. That would be the funniest thing ever. Haha, I don’t think we have the payroll room for such a hilarious move.

    Still, the Pedro thing confuses the crap out of me. Are they planning on shutting down Moyer? Maybe still trading Happ? Maybe just giving Manuel options for the playoffs.

  109. Confirmed.

    Cliff Lee,
    Ben Francisco

    To THE PHILLIES FOR

    Jason Knapp,
    Carlos Carrasco,
    Jason Donald,
    Lou Marson.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/cliff-lee-update.html

    I love it. Knapp is injury prone yet talented. Carrasco, Donald, and Marson are major league ready but not potential all stars. We get an ace and a reliever like we needed, but how will our rotation look the rest of the year?

    Lee, LHP
    Hamels, LHP
    Happ, LHP
    Blanton, RHP
    Moyer, LHP

    what happens to Pedro, Rodrigo, and Myers?

  110. If it hasn’t been said up above, ESPN says it is official. PEnding physicals: Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Jason DOnald, and Lou Marson.

  111. Pedro as a back-up option at closing? Anyone else see that “slider” Lidge threw to Reynolds last night? It is still flying.

  112. HOT OFF THE PRESSES – LEE TRADE REPORT FROM ESPN.COM c/o Jason Stark – IF TRUE, IT’S A DAMNED GOOD TRADE – Drabek, Taylor and Brown remain Phillies

    The Philadelphia Phillies and Cleveland Indians agreed to a trade that would bring Cliff Lee to the NL East leaders along with outfielder Ben Francisco for four minor-leaguers, according to major league sources.

    MLB Rumor Central
    ESPN Insider has the updated buzz from the Major League Baseball rumor mill.
    Story

    Triple-A right-hander Carlos Carrasco, Single-A righty Jason Knapp, catcher Lou Marson — the likely heir apparent to Victor Martinez — and shortstop Jason Donald will be sent to Cleveland.

    The trade is pending physical exams.

    The Phillies wouldn’t be required to give up pitcher J.A. Happ or the three prospects they balked at trading for Halladay — outfielders Dominic Brown and Michael Taylor, and pitcher Kyle Drabek.

  113. I like the deal in a vacum, but what if it makes it easier for a team to get Halliday, because there is one less suitor? I of course am kidding. Good deal, but to say Knapp is injury prone is flat wrong. He is on the dl right now just so the phils could monitor his innings.

  114. It would be interesting to see if the Phils still would be willing to trade for Halladay if the Jays lower their demands. That way, they would have Halladay for another year, but they could let Lee become a free agent by not exercising their club option next year, and they’ll get high draft picks in return…

  115. Great deal!

    I think Pedro goes to the bullpen and Rodrigo gets a pat on the back and is offered back to AAA, but he might not clear waivers.

  116. GAHHH! we keep HAPP, TAYLOR, BROWN, AND DRABEK and get last years AL CY YOUNG WINNER?!??!?

    Lee’s also got a team option for only 8 mil for next year – complete steal so we’ll keep him, and i heard he’s open to an extension!

    Lee
    Hamels
    Blanton
    Happ
    Moyer (with Drabek waiting in the wings)

    LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  117. Myers, Perdo and Lopez would all make great bullpen arms. With Romero, Durbin and Condrey returning we may have the best all-around pitching staff in the majors by the time october rolls around.

  118. He’s been pitching pretty well lately, but I wouldn’t mind seeing Moyer subbed out for Martinez (assuming he’s effective).

    I think Moyer should do the honorable thing and step down after this year.

  119. I beleive that it a team has a club option that isn’t executed they can’t offer arbitration and thus no picks. I would imagine that this takes us out of the toronto talks becuase we don’t have any midlevel prospects left. so we would have to trade the top prospects we didn’t want to deal in the first place. Unless they take say a Happ and Taylor. But that would push our payroll into mets territory,

  120. This is the greatest trade in the history of the Phillies organization. Rube the Negotiator strikes again!

    Granted, we gave up premium talent but we kept our top guys and the guys we’ll need to slip into the lineup over the next couple years.

  121. This looks great to me. Although we’re attached to these prospects, the fact is they were all blocked and none had stepped up this season. And in return, we got a legit #1 pitcher who should be very motivated, AND a respectable RH bat off the bench. We got to keep Taylor, Happ, Brown, Drabek- can’t beat that!

  122. No way they’re making another deal for a starter. They might try to get another reliever, though. With Francisco, they don’t need to go out and get another right-handed bat.

  123. FANTASTIC ALL AROUND!
    My question you guys is, what exactly does Lee’s club option for next year mean? Is it up to the Phillies to pick up, which they surely would (add a nice discount!). Then we can negotiate to keep him for after 2010? Can he walk before 2010? Or, if he walks after 2010, do we get prospects or anyhthin? thanks-

  124. My only concern is having four lefties in the rotation. Especially in that park. But you can’t criticize the deal.

  125. JeffS, I think Lee and Hamels (when he is on) dominate lefties and both righties equally so you can’t look at it like that.

  126. Everyone on this site understands what a great trade this was. To obtain this type of pitcher without giving up any higher level top-tier prospects or current major leaguers is fantastic. What is also fantastic is that the team now has a real 4th outfielder that is right-handed and can come off the bench to hit and occasionally play.

    And, yes, Happ, Brown, Taylor and Drabek are still with us (not to mention Michael Schwimer – sorry, I’m biased now). Ruben Amaro, Jr., you are now battled-tested. Nobody can tell for sure what will happen, but all things considered, you made the perfect deal. You are truly the man!

  127. We should not undervalue Carrasco and Donald. They may not be having great years, but both are top prospects. Carrasco has been a top 100 in baseball prospect the last few years. I think he will be a quality major leaguer. Just not this year.

  128. Now call up Toronto and give them a last chance offer of Happ, Brown, and Savery/Worley…

  129. NOT TO BE LOST IN THE SHUFFLE:

    Ben Francisco has absolutely lit things up in July – an .OPS over 1.000. He’s only 27. He can come off the bench, play the outfield and hit the ball – hard. And, if he matures, he could end up being another sleeper for the Phillies.

    This trade was breathtaking – an amazing coup under the circumstances.

    Yes, the guys they traded have ability, many will be major leaguers – none of them (with the exception of a very young Jason Knapp) are the equivalent of Brown, Taylor and Drabek. Wow!!!!

  130. In the short term, the guy they’ll miss is Marson. They’ll have to rely on Bako for the rest of the season, and might have to bring in another catcher for next season.

  131. here is a funny thought…how would you like to be the manager for Lehigh Valley. You just had your team gutted.

  132. The I-Pigs are no strangers to the loss column – they’ll get over it.

  133. Talk about a good problem – who’s your fifth starter come August – Jamie Moyer or Pedro Martinez?

  134. Great trade for the Phils. Hate to lose the prospects, since this is a prospect site, but the guys we received will have impact right now. Carrasco and Marson come off the 40 man roster and Lee and Francisco go on. There will have to be some jockeying of the roster. Mayberry comes down and can use more seasoning. Lopez might also be sent down.

    Who’s the 1st catcher up, in case of injury. Werth isn’t going to catch. Naughton’s on the 40 man but he’s not ready. Does Hoover have any Major League experience? I think they’ll need to go get a backup catcher for the backup. Just someone with some experience… in case.

  135. Allentown will get Mayberry back soon and probably Drabek to take Carrasco’s spot shortly so they shouldn’t be hurting too badly

  136. 3up3kkk Says:
    July 29, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    Now call up Toronto and give them a last chance offer of Happ, Brown, and Savery/Worley

    Better yet call up Toronto and make” excreatory” sounds.
    Or send them DVD’S of the Hustler. OMG I luv it.
    Sleep well Mr Taylor, Sleep well Mr. Drabek, Sleep well Mr Brown. snicker ,snicker

  137. HAHA nowheels i love your last post i am studying for an operations management midterm and your post has given me a laugh thank you

  138. staff 1. hamels, 2 blanton , 3 lee 4, happ 5, moyer. please no pedro. did he suddenly discover ponce de leon,s fountain of youth. hamels should still be number 1 so lee is not seen as an interloper. i hope d,arnaud gets good fast. what a name ben francisco. maybe tony bennett can sing the national anthem. or better yet we can trade him to san francico.

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