Lehigh Valley Weekend Update

7. Lehigh Valley

6/19/09– From Durham up to Norfolk for Lehigh Valley, who won their sixth straight game, 8-6 over Norfolk.  The ‘Pigs didnt need much more than Andy Tracy, who was 3-4 with 2 homers (12), 4 runs scored, a stolen base and 5 RBI’s. The first bomb came in the first, and Tracy followed that up with another in the 3rd to give the ‘Pigs a 4-0 lead at the time.  Gustavo Chacin (2-0) started and went six fairly effective innings giving up 3 runs on 5 hits.  He walked one and struck out two, leaving the game with a 5-3 lead after six.  Lehigh Valley tacked on two insurance runs in the 8th, and held on for the victory with Sergio Escalona picking up his 2nd save while with Lehigh Valley.  In addition to Tracy, JJ Furmaniak (3-4, 2b, rbi) and Jason Ellison (3-5, r) had big games for Lehigh Valley, while Lou Marson went 2-5 with an RBI in his return to the ‘Pig lineup.

6/20/09–Seven in a row now for Lehigh Valley with their 5-3 win Saturday night over Norfolk, behind a very good outing from Carlos Carrasco (3-7).  Carrasco went seven innings, giving just a run on five hits.  He walked two and struck out five.  Behind 1-0 in the sixth, Jason Ellison singled scoring Mike Spidale to tie the game up at one. The ‘Pigs scored three in the seventh on a two run double by Lou Marson, and an RBI single by JJ Furmaniak, making it 4-1. An Andy Tracy Sac fly made it 5-1 in the eighth, and after Steve Register got roughed up, Jason Anderson came in and pitched a clean ninth, earning his first save of the year with Lehigh Valley. Both Jason Ellison (2-4,r,rbi,sb) and Mike SPidale (3-4,r,sb) had multi hit games for the ‘Pigs.

6/21/09–The Lehigh Valley win streak ended at seven with a 4-2 loss in Norfolk on Sunday.  Andrew Carpenter (6-1) started and took his first loss of the year, going six innings, giving up three runs on 9 hits. He walked one and struck out 3.   Norfolk scored single runs in the 2nd and 4th, before Lehigh Valley bounced back with a run of their own in the 6th, which was quickly answered by Norfolk in the bottom of the inning.  Lehigh Valleyscored to cut the league to 3-2 in the 7th, but Norfolk scored an insurance run in the eighth to put the game away.  Mike Cervenak, Miguel Cairo, and Lou Marson all had two hits for the ‘Pigs.

 Notes: Miguel Cairo missed the game Friday night with a sore hip.  He was replaced in the lineup by Jorge Velandia, who started for the first time since May 5.

–Norfolk stole five bases off of the Marson/Carrasco combination Saturday evening.

-With the huge night Andy Tracy had on Friday, he set several Lehigh Valley records, including runs scored in a game (4), tied a record with 5 RBI, and tied a franchise record with two homers in a game.

Transactions: Lou Marson was activated from the DL before Friday night’s game.  He started and hit fifth.

47 thoughts on “Lehigh Valley Weekend Update”

  1. spidale has looked good in AAA….what kinda player is this guy? org filler or potential ML bench player?

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  3. Lou Marson hitting over .300 in his last 10 games. His average for the year is almost up to .250. It would be real nice to see him continue to hit more and have a good 2nd half.

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  5. I am beginning to believe given the success of Happ and Bastardo that the Phillies under rate their own farm system.
    Maybe from all the years of not having decent help.
    Marson should of never been sent back
    Carpenter should be called up.
    Taylor should be brought in as DH.
    If you cant see this team is in trouble put on your glass,and dont forget the lack of a bench. Bruntlett and Coste are hitting .300 as PHers . That is .300 if your add them together.
    Please ,please make some moves and see what you have
    before a trade especially since a lot of Ace pitchers are down.

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  6. Nowheels:

    1. Marson needs to play every day and improve. They are right to keep him in the minors.

    2. Carpenter will not be better than any of their 5 starters right now. Believe me, he’s a guy they want to trade for a starter and, God bless them, I think that’s a great idea as he’ll probably never be more than a 4 or 5 guy in any rotation, and that’s if things pan out well.

    3. Oddly enough, I am okay with bringing up Taylor, but only if he actually gets to play. However, you can’t have Taylor and Mayberry up at the same time – it creates a logjam. And, if you promote Taylor and send Mayberry down, my guess is that Mayberry mentally checks out for the rest of the year. It’s a tough situation, but when Taylor comes up, they should be ready for him to stay – this is one guy they shouldn’t jerk around as he is, in my view, the face of the franchise for the next 6 or 7 years. The next great Phillies player.

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  8. I believe Carpenter would be better in relief than some of the guys that are there.

    Alan
    you have to be kidding the roster stinks and they were swept by two american league turkeys.

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  9. @nowheels…no, I think Alan was serious. There are more than a few folks on this board who have voice their objections in the past to your posts on the big league team on a minor league site in case you haven’t noticed. Me personally, I just get perturbed reading the same post over and over and over again. I think we all know your thoughts on the major league roster by this point.

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  11. I can’t believe that I may actually be coming to Nowheels’ defense, but here goes:

    I don’t think his complains are too far out of line, even if he does harp on the same stuff over and over again – he is consistently (also loudly and constantly 8^) complaining about unproductive guys on the team (Coste, Bruntlett, Taguchi, Taschner) and suggesting that the organization would be better served by going with younger kids.

    The complaint that Charlie Manuel doesn’t like playing youngsters is a valid one – when Ruiz went down, Marson should’ve been played every day, instead he treated Marson as though he were a backup (and this despite the fact that Coste has repeatedly stated that he doesn’t like being an everyday player).

    Wow, I really did just defend Nowheels, didn’t I? Yikes, I’m frightenede. 8^)

    – Jeff

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  12. Discussion of the big league team when in reference to minor league players being promoted is aboslutely fair game.

    That said, nice to see Marson improve some, I’m still skeptical.

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  13. It’s not the discussion of the big club, it is that it was usually the same post over and over again. And it stems from the unrealistic expectation that the big club is going to replace a popular backup for a AAA catcher with a .244 batting average. Every thread these points are argued, and every couple days the same point is made and we’re back at square one. I could argue it, but I must’ve argued it 4-6 times already.

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  14. Alan What was does popular have to do with it. Marson hit just as well as Coste in Philly. How can you discuss a replacement without talking about whom he would replace.
    Forget it. Go your own way.

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  15. You and me Jeff O. lol Seriously maybe I get carried away with things like “leaving Hamels in Florida after ST for a couple week and testing Park and Happ, or the bs that Park pulled, or getting rid of Taschner. But I am a baseball fan.

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  16. Chris Coste’s batting line is .244/.343/.407, acceptable marks for a backup catcher. Lou Marson has 24 career at bats, and is hitting .248/.324/.344 in AAA. If there is proof that Marson is a better hitter than Coste right now, it is certainly not apparent to me. You cited Coste’s pinch hitting ability. A 1 for 7? Seriously? That is evidence of absolutely nothing.

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  17. The point is not that Marson’s better today. If they are breakeven, Marson should be there to see if he becomes better. Same goes with Donald.

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  18. Some of the posters on this site consistently overvalue our catching prospects, none of whom has done much if anything above the AA level. Bringing up Marson in the middle of a pennant race with his struggles this year doesn’t seem to be a good idea, even without factoring in the problem of having someone with virtually no major league experience and no knowledge of the hitters to manage the pitching staff.

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  19. No-wheels, I’m going to agree with Alan here, Marson doesn’t have any business at the big club at the moment, that said, I wouldn’t mind seeing taylor up here in a few weeks if Mayberry isn’t cutting it or Ibanez is still on the DL.

    Stairs needs to be a PH only, Dobbs is having a horrible year, same for Brunlett though I doubt they trash him. Werth is questionable and I wonder if he’s not just a platoon type player.

    Oh and speaking of Werth, I can’t remember who said this, but a couple weeks ago someone wrote that michael taylors upside was essentially that of Werth, I strongly disagree with that statement. Werth is a fringe starter, and I believe Taylor has the potential to be an All-Star.

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  20. Catch 22. Agree on Carpenter. I saw him in Durham last week and he struggled in some innings and looked sharp in others. Did not look ready for bigs to me.

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  21. Carpente also looked like he got frustrated easily if he did not come out in an inning getting ahead of hitters. He would start to labor and fidget.

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  22. Supra98x
    Maybe I didnt state my point correctly. Marson did well when he was in Philly. Not great but he caught well. If you were going to use Coste as the right hand batter off the bench why not keep Marson and let him get his feet wet and learn from
    Moyer and some of the older guys. I didnt make him a saint or anything but that is my view and as valid as anyone else’s

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  23. Alan Says:
    You cited Coste’s pinch hitting ability. A 1 for 7? Seriously? That is evidence of absolutely nothing.

    Wrong I stated the reason the Phils brought up Bako.
    Coste(.125) + Bruntlett(.167) = .300 together
    They are guys who can be pitched to and should be replaced by anyone having a pulse. BTW you brought this up again not me

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  24. I still think people are perpetually UNDERRATING Werth and OVERRATING Taylor. Werth is a guy who hit over 24 Homeruns in the majors in limited plate appearances. That is NOT fringe. He’s a more consistent Pat Burrell if anything. To my knowledge Taylor still hasn’t done anything in the majors.

    PS. I think Taylor is our number 2 prospect behind Drabek.

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  25. Fringe? Weth will hit .265-27-90 with 25 to 35 steals, with plus defense. If that’s fringe give me a few more fringe players. We can’t afford a superstar @ every position but i believe werth is a minor star and better/ more consistent than burrell.

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  27. marky mark and Joe
    Sure Werth is a worthy player but If you really want a top line
    pitcher you may have to trade him instead of Taylor depending on what the other club wants. Is it a chance sure. But you have two prospects to fill in both with good defense. Just saying keep an open mind. Value for value

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  28. The team will NOT trade Werth for a front-line starter in order to install a minor leaguer during a pennant race. It won’t happen. That isn’t how things work.

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  30. I don’t know if he will or not. I DO know what Werth will do. Believe me, I hope that Taylor becomes the second coming of Babe Ruth, but he also wouldn’t be the first one to put up fantastic numbers in the minors and fail in the majors. In a situation like this, you go with the performance you know.

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  31. You only know what someone has done, the rest is speculation. A guess based on many variables and personal preference.
    I would trade the individual that I believed would allow my team to be upgraded and better positioned to win.

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  32. Greg
    Some one once said “we have nothing to fear but fear itself”
    and FDR was right. If you want a top drawer pitcher you have to take a chance.
    You also have Mayberry. Just an idea. It is the position that we are deepest in prospects.

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  33. If we have to trade Werth to land someone like Halladay, Cain, Oswalt etc…then so be it. But, calling Werth a Fringe Starter was just inaccurate.

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  34. Joe Says:

    If we have to trade Werth to land someone like Halladay, Cain, Oswalt etc…then so be it. But, calling Werth a Fringe Starter was just inaccurate.
    Oswalt has become somewhat ordinary. We need a #2. We agree. How about call Werth a fringe star player. I think that is more accurate.

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  35. i LIKE THAT NOWHEELS! I think werth is a fringe star. If need be I would include him in a trade for halladay or cain but it is quite risky. I love taylor and if this was 2010 and taylor was dominating AAA i would be more likely to do it. I do like w/ i see in mayberry so far and would give him the 1st shot at rf and give taylor some time in AAA if werth was traded.

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  36. I think being that the phils would have an excellent chance of repeating w/ cain or halladay and need werth, i would feel more comfortable trading some of the LHV and reading studs(trying to bring it back to topic) and a couple from the bigs. Many will say this is too much but w/ no blue chips you have to offer more. Bastardo, mayberry, carpenter, donald, savery and carrasco. This would deplete us but for one of the best pitchers in the game or young stud i would do it. This would leave us w/ our BC prospects in tact ie. drabek, brown, taylor and knapp, not to mention some depth w/cloyd, shreve, cosart, cisco, naylor, flande, correia, stutes and worley.

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  37. What make a thirty year old who had one season so valuable. He is a 20 homerun, 260 hitting outfielder is that so great.

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  38. Mike mike werth was named by managers as one of the 2 most underrated players in baseball. Many agree that he has 30-30 and 100 rbi potential. I believe he was once a 1st rnd Dp so he has talent he was just injured early in his career. Last year werth hit 24 HR’s not 20 and was only about 400+ at bats. werth also had 20 stolen bases. Werth is also an excellent defender w/ a cannon arm. this is why he is valuable.

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  40. The one thing I dont understand is why players go to Leigh and their average goes down. Then they go to the bigs and things improve. Jaramillo and Mayberry for example.

    Most trades for a tier one pitcher include at least on major leaguer. Gms dont want to look silly.

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  41. mikemike: Average is the last thing you want to use in evaluating a player. Look at the entire package and at things like On base percentage and Slugging percentage. Look at his defensive value and his arm, along with his salary like mark pointed out. Werth is very valuable in that regard and if you go to fangraphs.com and look at his player page at the top you will see a couple articles using advanced statistics regarding Werth. I think you’ll be surprised at what you see.

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  42. markmark you have to do it on the field he is almost thirty. and its still potential mostly.

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  43. Pat
    No one is arguing Werth’s worth that is just why others would want him IF you have to trade.

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  45. mikemike Says:
    June 24, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    What make a thirty year old who had one season so valuable. He is a 20 homerun, 260 hitting outfielder is that so great.

    That’s not arguing his Werth? haha

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  46. Mikemike i think his affordable salary allows us to spend in other areas and he is w/o question performing in the field. He is a little streaky(not as streaky as burrell) but still a decent hitter. He has value and i think even his supporters would throw him in a deal for roy or matt. We would be possibly weakening ourselves in the OF but well werth it!

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