Open Discussion: Week of January 3rd

I hope you all remained safe over the holiday weekend.  Local police started pulling drivers over as early as 7:00 PM Thursday night.  My wife was out Dashing and she saw so many idiots running lights she stopped for the night.  That’s Florida for you, no masks, no sense.

Semi-quiet on the baseball front.  One trade and one minor free agent signing.

The Phillies completed a trade for a left-handed reliever, Jose Alvarado.  He comes with a couple warts but has the potential to be a high-leverage asset in the Phillies bullpen.  His cost was LHP Garrett Cleavinger, a pitcher in whom Girardi showed little confidence last season.

The Rays operate under an aura that leads people to think they don’t make mistakes.  Well, a trade earlier in the week left them in a position where they would have to release a player to make room on their 40-man roster.  Rather than an outright release, they traded a player and got a prospect back who didn’t have to be on the 40 plus a PTBNL or cash.  The Phillies were able to capitalize on that.

The Phillies also signed right-handed reliever, Michael Ynoa, to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.  He is the second pitcher the Phillies signed out of the Dominican Winter League.  They had signed RHO Neftali Feliz earlier.  This is no accident.  The Phillies have scouts active in the DR and coaches on some staffs in the DWL.  It doesn’t hurt to take a flier on guys like this.  If they don’t survive ST, it only costs a plane ticket, motel room, and meal money.

Don’t let the inactivity bother you and don’t let the rumors upset you.

(FWIW.  The guys in which I’ve heard the Phillies have an interest are all STILL on the board.)

Amateur Draft discussions will restart this week.

This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for Phillies and other baseball topics.

Key Dates:

  • January TBD – Rookie Career Development Program
  • January 15, 2021 – Deadline for teams and arb eligible players to submit salary figures to arbiter
  • January 15, 2021, 9:00 AM EST – Start of the 2020 international signing period
  • February 17, 2021 – Voluntary spring training reporting date for pitchers, catchers, and players recovering from injuries
  • February 22, 2021 – Voluntary spring training reporting date for position players
  • February 24, 2021 – Mandatory spring training reporting date
  • February 27, 2021 – First spring training game v. Blue Jays
  • April 1, 2021 – Opening Day for ALL 30 teams
  • June 25, 2021 – Close of the 2020 international signing period
  • July 11-13, 2021 – 2021 Amateur Draft

The rosters and lists are up to date as of January 3rd … 322 players in the org

Transactions (newest transactions are in bold print)

Reported yet unsubstantiated FA signings of RHP Michael Ynoa, INF Ronald Torreyes, C Christian Bethancourt, and RHP Neftali Feliz to minor league contracts with invites to spring training are in italics.

12/31/2020 – Phillies sign FA RHP Michael Ynoa to an MiLB contract with invite to ST
12/29/2020 – Rays traded LHP Jose Alvarado to Phillies; Dodgers traded PTBNL and 1B Dillon Paulson to Rays; Phillies traded LHP Garrett Cleavinger to Dodgers
12/19/2020 – Phillies sign FA RHP Neftali Feliz to an MiLB contract with invite to ST
12/15/2020 – Phillies sign FA C Christian Bethancourt to an MiLB contract with invite to ST
12/10/2020 – Phillies claimed SS Kyle Holder off waivers from Scranton/Wilkes-Barre
12/10/2020 – Scranton/Wilkes-Barre claimed RHP Reggie McClain off waivers from Lehigh Valley
12/07/2020 – Phillies claimed RHP Ian Hamilton off waivers from Seattle
12/04/2020 – Phillies sign FA INF Ronald Torreyes to an MiLB contract with invite to ST
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Kyle Dohy from Lehigh Valley
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Damon Jones from Lehigh Valley
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of SS Nick Maton from Lehigh Valley
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Francisco Morales from Lehigh Valley
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of CF Simon Muzziotti from Lehigh Valley
11/20/2020 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Bailey Falter from Lehigh Valley

212 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of January 3rd

  1. I suppose some of these older players won’t sign with the Phillies without a ST invite… If I were the Phillies I wouldn’t over promise on that perk as ST invites will be down from last year and I think there are a number of current high prospect minor league players who need ST to catch up from the year off and blocking those prospects for older guys doesn’t make sense to me..

    Jim you mentioned in last weeks Open Discussion that ST for the minor leaguers might be delayed due to the MiLB season starting later…You thought after the MLB players leave Clearwater the MiLB guys would come in on May 1st… Did you mean April 1st? I can’t see the MLB letting their minor league guys sit around a month after the MLB players start the season on April 1st..

  2. I believe I read yesterday that the plan is for ST to start on time. There had been some rumors of a delay. Naturally, that is prefaced by saying the hope is that any post Christmas/New Year’s surge does not result in shutdowns. I sure hope not. It would be nice for some activity to pick up in the Hot Stove league.

    1. When the possibility of a delayed season was floated about two weeks ago the MLBPA came out with a hard no and said we will see you in court if you try… The owners cannot unilaterally delay the season. Now that the MLB has exhibited the ability to play games under the cloud off COVID they would lose that battle in court.

  3. Happy New Year.

    We take the trek to Spring Training each year and just made it in & out last year before the shutdown.

    What are the chances for a ST visit this year? If good, when?


  4. Jim … can you tell us who you’ve heard the Phillies are interested in? I keep reading JBJ. Is he on your list? I’d especially be interested to know what pitchers they may be focusing on.

    Also … it sounds like the whole offseason may come down to JT Realmuto. About a week ago, Jeff Passan reported (ESPN Insider) that he’s heard from sources that if the club signs the catcher, they’ll then spend in other areas to improve the team. If JTR signs elsewhere, Middleton will probably pocket the dollars earmarked for Realmuto, and might not wind up in the pockets of other free agents.
    As far as I’m concerned, this is good news because I think there is an excellent chance (maybe even better than excellent chance) DD gets a deal done with JTR.

    1. I’ve only heard JBJ from media types. They aren’t talking to the same people I hear from. Doesn’t mean they aren’t real.

      I like my JT sources over most of the stuff we’ve seen from the media. No offer on the table, but ongoing negotiations. Everything but dollars.

      Their interest in others would likely solve their infield and maybe their closer. If they also pull off the trade that has been lingering since last summer, their bullpen would be greatly improved.

  5. Speaking of Realmuto, an announcement yesterday sure would seem to indicate that January is likely the month of decision for him. It was announced that the season would start on time and spring training would start in February.

    Since JT is a catcher and understands the importance of being there when the pitchers arrive it seems to me that this is the month of decision. We shall see.

    I wrote earlier about how when the Phils didn’t sign free agent catcher Lance Parrish till March it hurt him, the pitchers and the Phillies. I never thought this was coincidental. Realmuto seems to be the ultimate pro and whether it be the Phillies, Blue Jays or Astros I believe he wants to be there when the pitchers arrive.

    1. Going thru my 1964 season trek taking notice to catchers like Dalrymple, Triandos, Corrales, Coker, Coleman, Oldis, Averill, Schaffer, Ueker, Oliver, Ryan, Sullivan, Watkis, Roznovsky, Bates, Compton and an old Tim McCarver I say after reviewing these 10+ years thru 60’s into ’70, SIGN J T !!!!!

    2. I think it’s silly optimistic to think that JT will deadline a career decision based on ST. Players work out year-round nowadays. He’s already familiar with the pitching staff. He’s not going to leave money on the table because of some imagined “Lance Parrish Syndrome”.

      1. Haha your site Jim is often an outlet for wishful optimism. I’ve seen some other posts lean into the same sentiment and didn’t agree.

        JT is about to make a decision that may only come once in a lifetime and one that will setup his future generations 2-3 fold possibly. He is not going to let the calendar force his hand.

  6. Baseball America’s first mock draft has Phillies taking 18-year-old Andrew Painter in round one.

    Here’s their comment: “He has a 6-foot-6 frame that’s strong presently with future projection remaining, a fastball that regularly gets into the mid 90s, feel for spinning two distinct breaking balls, good feel for a changeup and also projects for above-average control. While teams are more leery of high school righthanders in the first round, Painter has all the traits you’d want to see if you took one.”

        1. Well yeah Mark you got me there…

          Sadly I’m less of an optimist than I used to be but still an optimist. Given the year we just had I’d say that’s all right.

  7. JTR’s list of bidders may get shorter…………..Jays may try to outbid the Mets and get Springer………..and with the Mets already signing McCann….it may come down to the Nats, Angels and Phillies for JTR.

    “The Blue Jays and Mets are reportedly the finalists in the race for Springer, but it remains to be seen if either club will meet his asking price, which SNY’s Andy Martino reported to be “well over $150 million” last week. According to SportsNet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith, Toronto has given some in the industry the impression that it is willing to go to $125 million for Springer. That would easily rank as the top free-agent deal in franchise history, “… and there’s a good chance that’s not even a hard limit,” Nicholson-Smith writes. However, he considers the Mets more likely to reach the $150 million threshold than the Blue Jays. Nicholson-Smith compares Springer to Anthony Rendon, who signed a seven-year, $245 million deal ($35 million average annual value) with the Angels last offseason.”

  8. One of our back up plans, Curt Casali, goes to SF. As long as Realmuto remains unsigned there is hope, but if we lose him, C is a giant hole.

    1. Any interest in Puig? ..Yasiel Puig says he’s ready to change.
      Could be had pretty cheap on a one year deal.

      Puig said, “You’ve got to pay attention to the coaches. If they tell me to move to a certain area and the ball ends up being hit somewhere else, that’s a problem with their statistics. They’re the ones in charge.“I didn’t like to do it, because I’m the one in the game and I see if the batter is going to hit the ball here or not. If they decide [on the positioning], you’ve got to respect that. You’ve got to do what they say. I’m ready to play in the big leagues and leave behind the things that were bothersome.”

      1. Romus, I remember a former adjutant general of the Delaware National Guard who noted that he had seen many thousands of young men over the years and the one thing he observed is that, eventually, they, they all grew up. Some took longer than others, but they all grew up.

        Maybe that’s what’s happened to Puig, but I wouldn’t want to bet on it.

        1. Plus, if we’re going the route to give second chances for seemingly-repentant players, we might as well do it with Doobie instead. We’re already paying him and he has more positional flexibility.

          Granted Puig’s domestic violence investigation didn’t lead to any punishments, so it’s possible his only baggage is on-the-field attitude and actions. But still, at the very least Herrera has earned as much of a chance as he has.

          1. Dan,

            Whole heartedly agree about Odubel. He appears sincere. Let’s give him a chance. We can use a good centerfielder, too.

          1. Not a fan….

            Maybe I’m old fashioned but never liked guys that seemingly play for themselves and not the guys next to them. Granted there is a fine line between trying to make things happen and spark the team but as Forrest’s mama said stupid is as stupid does.

    2. Yeah I was disappointed to see Casali had signed in sf. We had better get JTR for we’re letting good options at low prices ($1.5m!) go by. Casali has OBP and good D. For a fraction of cost! Oh welll…

    1. That semi-running start will ad 5 mph easy. Let’s see what he does on the mound with the traditional pitchers motion…

      1. Do you have documented proof that “semi-running” adds “5 mph easy”? Please share. (I agree that forward motion should add velocity, but 5 mph?)

        1. Jim he’s taking two forward steps then throwing. Ok not running but not exactly the stretch position either. The two walking steps motion forward absolutely adds velo to the pitch. I’m not sure how much of the mph increase translates to the mound in a game but 5 mph? Hmnnn.

          1. Actually they refer to it as ‘crow-hopping’.
            Myth #3; in below attachment with some video of the maneuver..

            “We do some crow-hop throws in our facility, but I don’t consider them all that relevant for pitchers. Unfortunately, some players and coaches advertise crow hop velocities, hoping prospective clients assume that these advertised speeds are mound speeds; they’re not. A simple crow hop that an infielder would take after fielding a grounder, or that an outfielder would take from beneath a fly ball, will add an average of 3-4 mph. If you add running to that, the added velocity continues to grow. One of our interns from last summer, a reliever at a D-I school in Maryland who last year pitched at 87-91, reached 99-102 mph with what he described as “a huge, really aggressive run-up.” He’s throwing a little harder this year, but still is an 89-92 pitcher. Running with a crow hop added 10 miles per hour to his peak speed, which seems irrelevant considering he can’t pitch anywhere near this.
            My point is, no matter what people are telling you, 90 is still THE major milestone. 92 is the new 90, but 90 is still a BIG deal. The average velocity in MLB has indeed increased by about 2 miles per hour, but 100s still aren’t, and won’t, be prevalent.”


            1. Romus is a stellar research artist

              I’m not a pitching guru at all but I play one on TV and long toss still seems to be the most proven way to add velocity

              That said the throwing apparatus arm, shoulder, lat seems to be one of a genetic gift given to some and not others. I think back to Ryan Madson and how he showed up one season and out of no where was sitting upper 90’s

      2. I don’t think the gap between a running start and pushing off the rubber is 5 mph. I think it may be like 1-2 mph at most. This is not a new thing. Pushing off the rubber adds a lot vs flat ground.

    2. I wouldn’t get too excited about the velo. It’s a gray plyoball (3-3.5 oz), not a baseball (5 oz). The yellow plyoball next to the screen on the floor is closer to baseball weight.

  9. We’re into January and the timing of things looks clearer. Spring training will hopefully start on time, with no fans, and the season could start on time but with no fans. There is a chance that fans return in July/August time frame. The owners have been waiting to see how things develop with the vaccine and when fans might return. I could see teams waiting a little longer until after the next wave of positive cases and after the vaccine rollout kicks up (after Jan 20) to then begin making signings. A little longer to wait…

  10. Here’s a link to last night’s Australian Baseball League action. Steve is a friend. If you want to discuss it, do it here. He will NOT engage on his site.

    Further breakdown where #=spot in batting order:


    2 Simmons-SS-2-2-1-0-0-0-0-1-1-.500
    3 Randolph-LF-4-1-1-0-0-1-1-0-3-.250
    5 Williams-2B-3-1-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-.000
    6 Wingrove-1B-3-0-1-1-0-0-2-0-1-.333
    7 Edwards-C-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-2-.000

    Jordan McArdle was invited to minor league ST last season but it was cancelled before he got a chance: 8 McArdle-DH-2-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-.500

    Here’s 5 minutes of game highlights from the ABL.

    1. Thanks for posting this Jim, a real minor league box score (almost). Randolph hit the one pitch up for a homer but K’d three times on low off speed. Most of these guys haven’t faced live pitching for quite some time. Off speed pitches will be hard to hit initially.

  11. Re: the velocity above, the founder of Perfect Game (Jerry Ford) estimates that there are only a few hundred kids in a given high school class who TOUCH 90 while in high school (and Perfect Game sees most of them at its tournaments and showcases). Now, figuring out which of those kids on the lower end (say, 90) will be at 91 in three years and which will be at 97 — if you could figure that out, you’d be a helluva scout.

    P.S. — and some very good pitchers (e.g., Shane Bieber, Tyler Glasnow) didn’t even touch 90 in high school.

  12. Happen to jump in the car just after DD get off a Sirius MLB radio interview. So I did not hear DD’s interview but the post interview amongst the hosts was the Phillies are like the Dutch boy sticking his fingers in the dike and when he plugs one whole another leaks. It seems their opinion was let JTR walk and take his money and stock the BP, C and CF positions. They thought a catcher could be filled with a trade with a team like the Cubs for production that was much less dollar wise than a prospective JTR contract but a better value…If JTR’s agent heard that commentary he/she must have gagged…

    1. Was watching MLB network last night and Brian Kenney led off his show with a vast list of RPs still on the market with ERA+ of 150 or more and it had to include 10 names with Hendricks and Yates being top rated.

      He referenced how this has both back fired in the past and been successful stocking your BP with high leverage arms that is.

      I would target Pedro Baez who has great peripherals against both lefties and righties. DD shouldn’t have to break the bank to make quality improvements in that area.

      Yates is coming off injury but has an incredible K rate of 40% plus on batters faced.

      So even if he were to save on the C position and spend some on the BP this team is going to be vastly short on offense.

      Who is going to be on base in front of Harper and who is going to hit behind him so he sees at least some damage pitches? I like Bohm to hit in the 2 hole but who leads off?

      1. DMAR..agree…….he should not have to break the bank for the pen since the arms are going to be there .

        1. Well the Dodgers just signed Treinen to a 2/$17.5 so there’s your bar for what some of these guys might cost..

          1. And to think Ruben signed Jon Papelbon almost 10 years ago for 4 yrs/$50M.
            I would think Middleton can afford to spend a few shekels on relievers this off-season.

    2. Just maybe the message was intended for the agent to hear? They would be foolish to place all of their eggs in the JTR basket and need to have alternative routes ready..

    1. If ST remains on schedule….maybe Double A and Class A will only be delayed less than a month…..well I assume at least two weeks for the standard measured ‘quarantine protocol’

    2. Does this mean none of the high level prospects get brought into ST unless they were already on the AAA roster? I would think the Phillies would have about 10-15 high level non-AAA players they would have liked to bring to ST that now per MLB rules won’t be allowed.

  13. The minor league season wraps up usually Labor Day weekend, maybe they’ll play until end of September this year?

    1. I find it hard to believe the owners are not concerned with their future investment in draft picks and player development. They cut last year’s draft ridiculously short and lost a full year of development for all their minor leaguers. Now it looks like they are compromising this season as well. The net effect will be a delay in cost effective young players coming up through the pipelines, ultimately costing each franchise more $ by having to sign and keep more veterans. I can see the Union not caring since minor leaguers have never been their mandate, but it seems to be a bad scenario for the owners.

  14. I’m surprised baseball hasn’t come up with an alternate plan for the minor leagues. Here would be my plan: each team takes their top 50 minor leaguers and split them in two teams, in one bubble, and play for 5 months in their AAA or AA city. Then take the next 50 and do the same in one of the A ball cities. Play a full schedule – no travel, no fans, lots of testing and safety protocols.

    1. My concern is another year with no MiLB in cities will wipe out the minor leagues in total.. Complete bankruptcy no matter how much cash the MLB kicks in..

      1. First step is spring training. Anyway that we can play more intra-squad games and maybe partner with a team that is close in proximity for games; i.e Phillies/Blue Jays, etc..?. I know it will be boring after awhile but it will be safer and they will get their bats & pitches in before the season.

  15. When Does The Thaw Start?

    CBS Sports:
    “There have been frigid free-agent winters, particularly the past few years, but nothing has resembled this deep freeze. Seventy days have passed since the start of free agency, and only 32 free agents who entered the marketplace have signed major-league contracts, totalling $226 million. Yep, less than what the Los Angeles Angels paid Albert Pujols (10 years, $250 million) nine years ago. There are still more than 150 unemployed players, including J.T. Realmuto, Trevor Bauer, George Springer and D.J. LeMahieu.
    The Mets dropped $40.6 million on catcher James McCann, which is $39.8 million more than the entire National League Central Division has spent this winter. He is the only non-foreign free agent to receive more than a two-year guaranteed contract.”

    1. He who speaks first in a negotiation loses right? Or is that just a myth.

      Question for you Romus did McCann sign his deal before we announced the DD hire or after? And McCann started in the Tigers system so DD would have had some familiarity with him.

      1. DMAR….after the new PoBO was hired…very very close however.
        Dave D was hired on Friday 11 Dec
        McCann signed with the Mets on 13 Dec.
        So Sandy A. and Cohen probably were aware of the same thing you are thinking.
        McCann’s negotiations must have been just before or during the winter meetings….while Dombrowski’s talks and negotiations may have started quite awhile before Dec..

  16. Kendall Simmons with a HR…big strong Mitch Edwards also goes yard……Wingrove HRs also.:

    1. Wingrove with 3 homers in 3 games? He’s only 20 but he’s a big man (6’5”). You never know…

        1. Man I really wish the MLB Network would carry these games instead of running all the same tired movies in their dead air time.

          Watching that video also reminds me that I thought Randolph was going to be a really good hitter 😦

          1. He does have more swing and miss it seems these days…..maybe he will catch on in Korea or an overseas location.

        2. Thank you Romus. Seems like lots of Phillies minor leaguers on this team. In addition to Wingrove I noticed Simmons at SS, Randolph at LF, Edwards catching and Luke Williams. Any others on the team? Always appreciate it!

          1. Geez, I started posting the names of our players on the ABL rosters back in November. All 17. Including the 12 who were on the Giants roster. SMH. Two opted out due to COVID, and one just cleared quarantine, … Sometimes I think I waste my time and should just post a comments section.

            1. Sorry Jim. It is a download on my phone and don’t have the storage. Don’t make analysis based on me, I’m just not that advanced on my mobile devices. My bad, your good.
              I still appreciate all your information. Do not ever base your effectiveness or value based on me.

            2. Jim, I read every stat u post about the ABL and winter. Honestly I’ve wanted more, as some weeks u have not included stats. I know it’s manual so I understand. But please know it’s appreciated!

  17. just saw that the Twins signed JTR to a minor league deal!! That would be JT Riddle of course 🙂

  18. Mets “close” to Lindor deal. That would widen the gap between them and us. I know jim has told me to not get discouraged about us not doing anything, and the players he has heard we are interested in are still on the board, and we were not in on Lindor, but the slightest indication that we are choosing to compete this coming season would be very much welcomed.

      1. Lucky for the Mets Steve Cohen has deep pockets. At the end of this season, Lindor, Conforto, Syndergaard, Matz, and Stroman will all be FA’s. How many will they bring back? And are they still in on George Springer?

  19. you guys know better than I do about the various farm systems, but I did not think that the Mets had a particularly strong one, and the only name I know is Rosario, so it does not appear that the Mets hurt themselves making this deal. Again, I am not suggesting that we were in on a Lindor trade, but we don’t seem to be in on anyone. Meanwhile, yes, ST is a month away, and the slow market, and Covid, and the Phillies lost Billions, sarcasm, and Dombrowski hasn’t been here 6 months yet, but anything, other than a flyer on a Reliever coming off injury, would be nice.

    1. matt … I think they’re just waiting out JT Realmuto. Jeff Passan reported if/when he’s re-signed, DD will probably have the OK to spend money on other team needs. However, if Realmuto signs elsewhere, Middleton will more likely pocket the dollars earmarked for the catcher instead of reinvesting it on other notable FA’s.
      I believe DD will get JTR done, and will find dirt cheap prices on short term deals for FA guys by the end of January.

      For me, I’d still put James Paxton, Carlos Rodon, Garrett Richards, and Chris Archer in the group of FA starters I’d target. I think they should also work on bringing back Didi. And, of course, keep on adding to the BP (Darren O’Day and Chasen Shreeve are a couple of FA guys to watch).

    2. It’s really not a bad deal for the Indians they got two high ceiling lottery tickets and and two decent MLBers

      Short term not good for us of course as those are two fine players the Mets just acquired. I’ll wait and see on the long term effects as Lindor would cost a pretty penny and if they shell out for an aging Springer that could hamper their payroll flexibility down the road.

    3. Rosario and Gimenez were both top 100 prospects before getting to the majors, and are both young (25 and 22, respectively) with team control. So if the Indians see something there, they got more back than you might expect. Especially considering Rosario had a nuts second half of 2019. If that’s more who he is than what he showed in 2020, then the Mets will really be kicking themselves if they don’t sign Lindor long term.

      So basically, if you think of the two MLB pieces as prospects rather than finished products, then this deal is a lot more costly than you might initially think. As it should be for someone of Lindor’s (and Carrasco’) abilities.

  20. I’m warming up to a trade for Contreras and pocketing the JTR money for SP, BP and CF.. We just have so many holes to fill..

          1. DMAR….I do like Haseley….but defensively JBJr is top notch.
            And AH had a down defensive year last season according to the metrics and statcast

      1. Springer will be less than JTR and the extra cash will get us a few FA BP arms and a SP. We’re five weeks out from ST… Make JTR a fair offer. If he accepts great. If he doesn’t move on…Analysis by paralysis. DD didn’t come here to finish 4th or 5th…

  21. wellll Phillies look like a sure fire 4th or 5th place team even more so today

    Mets just traded for Lindor and Carrasco

    Must be nice to have an organization that wants to put an elite product on the field

  22. As I see it there were only 3 possible places Lindor could have gone – and 2 of them are in New York – maybe Boston too. No other teams have the resources, cash + available minor leaguers to complete this deal. This is not surprising at all.

    I also think Cohen will have Lindor signed to a contract similar to Mookie’s by the end of ST. The one good thing is – we will get to see the best SS in baseball for alot of games. With this single move Cohen took the Yankees off the front page. Imagine how much $$$ LaMahieu is going to receive now – otherwise Yanks are cooked and will be assuming the place of the Trout City Angels compared to the Dodgers. This was a brilliant baseball, marketing, and business decision – Lindor will be the face of the Mets for a generation.

    The good thing about this is – it escalates the whole Eastern division into getting the next nuke. Can you see Stott and other assets traded for Rockies’ Trevor Story ? Its DD time.

    1. RU…..Lindor will want $30M plus AAV next year…….they still have Conforto and Thor….which could be another $45/50M AAV together.
      There is talk of re-doing deGrom’s….which will be more I would think..
      Cohen, with his $14B easily has the money,
      ..but he did say he wants to keep draft choices to keep their pipeline going……and does not want to lose the draft choices in Lux.Tax penalties down the road.
      So he will be near and pushing the max….but will probably want to stay just under it.

    2. Agree RU sound baseball decisions being made across the board. I’m a bit jealous but like your point about getting to see a lot of Frankie. I love everything about that kid.

      1. Was 2020 an anomaly for Lindor at the plate …..or is it his Waterloo!
        He did lead the AL in PAs with 266….so it was not a SSS…..but all the pandemic distraction may have factored into his drop-off from the past seasons’ production.
        His defense was still excellent and his K/BB ration was still plus.

  23. Phillies were projected 4th place prior to Mets move. IMO the Mets move will give the Phillies a few more losses. Folks, we are looking at a 5th place team. A team that hasn’t made the playoffs since 2011. Unacceptable. Can’t believe there’s not more anger and frustration at this franchise. Let’s hope DD makes a quick turnaround. Why would JT want to re-sign with Philly when first two years will be retooling years??

    1. Why bother getting upset at a team in the MIDDLE OF THE OFFSEASON?

      This is not the finished product. There are still moves to be made. Chill out and wait to see what happens.

      1. I’m not going to chill out when I see Phillies rivals getting better as they continue to nothing. This stems from last offseason when Middleton decided to stop spending. The bullpen suffered. No what? Didi is probably gone, perhaps JTR too.
        Rhys is a question mark
        Kingery is another question mark
        Segura is inconsistent
        Harper has been great but that back is bothersome
        Cutch Is a question mark
        CF has a man of glass and Haseley
        See a trend? This team isn’t anywhere near a contender.

        It’s just frustrating. Maybe if this team had a top 10 farm system but there’s not much talent knocking at the door.

        1. Name which moves that have been made that impact OUR moves. We weren’t getting Lindor. We weren’t blocking the Mets. Their moves mean nothing for us. Both players you listed are both still available, yet you’re acting as if both signed team-friendly deals elsewhere and ST starts tomorrow. Our options are still wide open.

          If you operate based on what other teams do, you’re a bad GM. If you make moves just to make moves, you’re a bad GM. If you PAY EXTRA because you refuse to wait for the market to develop, you’re a bad GM. If this sounds like I’m saying you personally would make a bad GM, then it’s probably because you would. You’re a fan and not working in the front office for a reason.

          So be a fan. Think about the things worth being excited for, like Harper, Nola, and Wheeler in their primes. Or the possibility of Kingery, Rhys, Haseley, Bohm, et al taking the next step.

          If the season starts and we haven’t addressed our needs, complain then. But hemming and hawing about moves we haven’t yet made but still could is pointless.

          1. Any time a division rival makes a big move it impacts the Phillies. It makes the Phillies weaker.

            Of course I am excited about Nola, Wheeler, Harper and Bohm, but they won’t carry this team to the playoffs. Hoskins is too hot and cold and there’s no guarantee he’s ready for start of season.

            I know we have another 2.5 months until season but this team hasn’t given much to be excited about.

            At least MiLB baseball is coming back! AAA on time and everyone else about a month late. That’s exciting for me. I’d love to see this farm take the next step and open the next windows for Phillies.

            1. That’s flawed logic. It only makes the Phillies weaker if the improvement came FROM the Phillies. It only THEORETICALLY made the Phillies weaker if they were planning to make the same move, but were prevented to do so by the other team.

              Neither situation applies here. Lindor was not in our plans. He has no impact on the Phillies’ moves. If you think that the Lindor acquisition makes the Mets an insurmountable foe, then even more reason not to react rashly. If we can’t beat them, why waste resources trying?

              But if it doesn’t make them insurmountable, then our goal is exactly the same; put together a team capable of winning a championship. The Mets aren’t the Dodgers or Braves. They haven’t added height to the mountain we’re trying to climb. They’ve just made one ledge slightly higher. That ledge is insignificant. It’s the peak that matters. If we can’t beat the Mets as they are now, we never would have beaten the Braves anyways. So who cares?

              And if you think that re-tooling the entire FO isn’t reason to be excited, then I don’t know what to tell you. Clearly you weren’t happy with splashy spending last offseason, and now you aren’t happy with more judicious decisions. Maybe you just use the Phillies as a way to vent your frustrations? In which case, I apologize. Don’t keep it bottled up; better to be angry at a baseball team than at people who it may actually impact.

          2. Exactly. Knee jerk reaction over a period of inactivity just because another team made a splashy move. Let’s get perspective.

            1. Not calling for a knee jerk reaction.

              Ever since Middleton’s self imposed cap and lack of deadline moves, this team has signaled a re-tool.

              This isn’t a playoff team and I’m not going to be delirious in thinking they will make some big move.

              Live in a fantasy world, that’s ok.

      2. Amen Dan.
        Same thing happened 2 yea ago… until they signed Bryce just like everyone wanted (and signed him for lower aav than expected.)

    2. I cant wait for the season, The Phillies and Marlins fight it out for last place, should be great race,

        1. Yeah, they went skydiving together….great race, first one to hit the ground first wins……..and one forgot their chute…great race!

  24. DanK, I do not intend to argue your point, this is simply a question. I, clearly, am one who is pessimistic about our chances, and the team’s actually trying to contend this year. Are you patient, or are you optimistic? You are certainly entitled to be either or both, just wondering. We had all the guys you are excited about last season, but because the Owner decided, before the pandemic hit, that the $207M was a de facto salary cap, we fielded the worst BP in history. I have seen nothing, except the hope that hiring Dombrowski brings, that we are going to do what is necessary to contend this season. Charlie Morton, Trevor May are 2 names that we should have here but don’t. What good will it do to complain when the season starts and the team has already failed to actively compete? Being a fan means the first thing you want is the team to try. Have you seen them try yet?

    1. I’m probably overly pessimistic as well but no I haven’t seen them try since the self imposed cap, but I’ll be patient for another 10 years.

      It’s cool we have a couple of exciting players but this big market team needs playoff baseball!

    2. I’m just patient. I don’t actually believe we’re a playoff team at present, let alone a championship contender. I’m not even sure there are moves that CAN be made to get us to that point.

      But the FO should be allowed the chance to make the effort. A chance we aren’t currently giving them. So many people want to act like the Phils did nothing to bolster their ‘pen last year; they did. Just so happens that every move blew up in their face. People complain that they should have added more reliable options in the offseason… but how did that work out the year prior? So they took the opposite approach of getting a bunch of lower tier targets and hoping some would stick. And then when they didn’t, they went out and traded for some options that were having current success, and that failed, too. They tried three different ways of building a bullpen, and none worked. Who’s to blame for that; unclear. But it wasn’t an issue of spending, and the people who made those moves are now gone. So don’t hold the new people accountable for mistakes they didn’t make.

      As for Morton and May… It’s worth asking why AREN’T they here? Maybe because one is 37 and the other has health concerns? There are legitimate reasons to NOT sign them. Will they be good this year? Maybe, maybe not. But those two aren’t a reason for me to lose sleep. There are plenty of equally good, some even better, pitchers still for the picking. If the Phils are targeting those guys instead, why would I be upset for not signing the other ones?

      And yes, I have seen them try. Again, new FO. That is a BIG deal. And not only that, we swung a 3 team trade. When was the last time we did that? Maybe you aren’t excited about who we got back (in which case, why would you be more excited about Morton than Alvarado?), but just the fact that we were able to pull one off is encouraging. We have an owner that is willing to spend (as much as we complain about not wanting to go past the luxury threshold, even just having a 200M+ budget is a big deal), and a new FO led by a man that has won. A lot. Let them work. Complain if they do nothing closer to ST, when our options are ACTUALLY limited. Not now when basically no team has done anything.

  25. Jim Salisbury wrote about BA’s mock having us select Andrew Painter, a topic we touched on last week. If he is on the same level as Mick Abel, I will be happy to get him.

  26. Thanks for the info, Hinkie. My Son had just texted me, and I hadn’t seen the news. A local guy, from Norristown, and a Baseball lifer. Great stuff with the Phanatic over the years! May he rest in peace!

    1. matt13…….even though a local guy from Norristown, where his brother had a business…..he did not have an endearing love for the Phillies organization….stemming from his post-HS days right after WWII….seems they let him go after a brief stint in the low minor league levels.

      1. Romus i read he played two yr in minors then went into service and they let him go i believe, caught on with the Dodgers, I know he bleed blue,

        1. rocco…Brooklyn Dodgers drafted him as a Rule V player….Phillies did not want to protect his rights. He never forgot that.
          You know …blood is red…Phillies’ colors were red, his boyhood team, his favorite…..thus after he was let go…..his blood turned blue.

  27. I didn’t know that Romus. You always bring interesting facts to the table that I appreciate. Are you still feeling optimistic about the remainder of the off season? How do you feel about the Mets adding Lindor and Carrasco?

    1. matt13… not under-estimate Dave Dombrowski.
      If Middleton has given him full rein….then I think he will get things done.
      Until the JTR issue is resolved….ii is the snag in the process, preventing the team from rolling down the tracks.
      And it would not surprise me…if he does a trade for Contreras and his two years of arb eligibility, especially if no head way is made with Berry and JTR.

      As for the Mets….pressure is on now….have to make the play-offs.
      Lindor will also command 12yrs/$375M before August, maybe even before May, no way he walks…ala Mookie and the Dodgers.
      So now Cohen and Alderson will have to negotiate their own payroll structure…..Conforto and Thor also could be signing deals this summer…totaling $50M between the both of them. Cohen can easily pay the salaries and the tax…..but he does not want to lose draft choices under any Lux Tax penalties going forward…he said as much in November, when he said he wants a strong farm system down the road..

  28. The new CBA may change things a lot Romus. If the Luxury Tax penalties are decreased or it’s simply a monetary penalty then he snd the Yankees and Dodgers and Red Sox and other deep pocket teams will be much more ready to spend.

    1. matt13….yes that can be the case….however I believe the Comp Balance Picks…..the 15 ‘small market’ teams as beneficiaries of that extra high pick……is indirectly tied to the Com Palance Tax (CBT) or luxury tax threshold as it is refer to
      The small market teams, it is assumed, cannot spend up to that threshold and also at the same time unable to hold onto expensive players…ie Lindor.
      For the most part, the penalties for exceeding the CBT are fine-based. A first-time exceeder has to pay a 20 percent fine on its overage; a two-time exceeder has to pay a 30 percent fine; beyond that it’s a 50 percent fine. There are also surtaxes for exceeding by $20 million (12 percent); $40 million (42.5 percent); and repeating over $40 million (45 percent). A team that goes more than $40 million over also has its highest draft pick moved down 10 spots provided it isn’t picking in the top six. In those cases, which would seem to be rare, the team’s second selection would be dropped 10 spots… losing the draft slot and dropping means losing slotted money for quality amateur players.

      They could further increase the drafting positioning penalties as a deterrent

  29. .

    Philadelphia Phillies

    Johan Rojas, OF
    Age: 20 B: R T: R HT: 6-1 WT: 170

    Scouting grades:
    HIT: 55 PWR: 55 RUN: 60 ARM: 55 FLD: 55

    Rojas can play all three outfield positions, with the range to play center, the arm to play right and the bat to play left. My guess is he makes it as a center fielder. His bat is going to play because he can consistently barrel the ball up and makes contact. However, he needs to improve his approach at the plate, including better discipline and understanding what pitches he can handle and which ones to take. He’ll be climbing up the Phillies’ prospect rankings significantly this season.

      1. Would you trade Johan Rojas, Francisco Morales, and Damon Jones for Josh Hader? I’m neither endorsing nor sqaushing the idea. I’d just like to take an informal poll.

          1. Hinkie – always like your take – but I wouldn’t do this deal because : Hader is awesome but is developing a fly ball tendency – he may only give up one hit a week but it will be a game losing home run – otherwise he is frighteningly good. However, Liam Hendriks, and others basically duplicate his dominance and they are on the shelf for simple cash. 2 prospects maybe, but not 3 and then Brewers wouldn’t do it. I say buy the closer don’t trade for him.

        1. Reasonable but I’d say no. I admit I overvalue prospects but it’s specifically the potential higher end guys (of which we only have a handful) that I’m more protective, and I consider Morales and Rojas amongst them. Plus, in this case the return is just a reliever, and for a team with several holes.

          1. I’ve heard many times how prospects cost GMs their jobs. Either overvaluing guys and not trading them at their peak or undervaluing them and trading them at low value. Your proposed 3 for 1 deal would hurt potentially but there’s a very good chance Hader would be good for all three years. You can only make this move if they’re signing JT and staying aggressive.

        2. That’s a tough call, Hinkie. But I would find it difficult to give up that much for a relief pitcher, closer or not.

          1. mark8:29….taking out Morales from the mix and subbing another low a player or pitcher would be a no-brainer for me….if Stearns and the Brewers are receptive is the question.
            Rojas is a good prospect….but I think a guy like Miguel Tejada Jr has better overall tools…and the system does have its share of OF prospects to compensate for that loss…..the newest guy Jhoswar Garcia for example and the big drafted kid (LHB )from Georgia Tech.

    1. Please don’t be Franco, please don’t be Franco, please don’t be Franco…

      But seriously, the little I’ve seen of Rojas is definitely encouraging. Just hope he realizes that being able to put the bat on the ball isn’t the same as making solid contact. It’s super frustrating seeing a player with such an excellent ability to make contact, but can’t translate that to hitting success.

  30. The team losing a FA can get a competitive balance pick but it’s the losing a draft pick that could go away maybe for an expanded Playoff. It will all be on the table. The players want the wealthy teams to lose any detriment to spending and the owners want an expanded playoffs to make more money. Just a thought. But let’s pretend that we are in 2022, stadiums are full, no loss of draft picks and a 20% penalty for exceeding the Luxury tax which is $207M, where are we? With the spending teams or not?

    1. matt13…technically losing a FA (remember has to be attached to a QO) ..the pick is called Compensation Pick…I know can be confusing with Competitive Balance Picks (which are only assigned Rounds A and B to small market teams).

      Where are we?
      I think the Phillies will be spending… they have the last 3/4 years with Harper, Santana, Arrieta, Wheeler, Robertson, Hunter.
      Phillies payroll has been floating in the top ten for the last 3/4 years.
      I do not think that changes.
      Teams that broke the CBT. lately …Red Sox, Yankees and Nationals all try to get under it at least one year to avoid the consecutive string and worse penalty.

  31. Nationals sign Schwarber. I know he’s not consistent but would’ve been a great bench piece or fill in at 1B or OF.

    1. One year $10M seems to be a rather good signing…nothing to lose really..
      I wonder of they are still in play for Realmuto…..Scherzer is in his last year so they may let him walk or re-sign for another 2/3 years.

      1. I thought the Nationals/JT rumor wasn’t really a thing? Either way, they worry me as a threat to sign JT.

        I know I am to be patient but rivals are making smart moves as Phillies made one creative low risk trade….

        I’d feel better if there were studs close that can help the Phillies but there’s not.

        But I don’t see JT signing with the Phillies if they’re committed to a re-tool for two years. Why waste two more years of his prime on a team that won’t sniff the playoffs?

  32. Phillies were handcuffed from doing much while waiting on Harper a couple of years ago. Now they are in the same situation with Realmuto. Do they wait out JTR or should they make him an offer and then move on? Was it Tom Petty who wrote/sang, “The waiting is the hardest part”?

  33. To me, the Mets fanbase being energized by first, vi’s alter ego buying the team, and second, his seeming to be making good on his promises, adds to the frustration that this whole off season has caused. I, clearly, have no patience, but the Mets really did not give up that much to get Lindor and Carrasco. I believe, as I did with the Dodgers and Betts, that Lindor is resigned. And, the whole trade plan for Hader is something we don’t need to do, if Middleton simply spends the money on FAs that do not require us to lose prospects. I don’t want to give up Morales or Rojas. To me, they have a value much greater than money, which, despite all the claims to the contrary, the team has plenty of. What is not plentiful, are prospects. And, I still believe that the plan is to punt 2021, notwithstanding the hiring of Dombrowski.

    1. Yep if the plan is to punt 2021 expect a terrible product on the field.

      I’ve been a loyal Phillies fan since 1993. We moved to Delaware and immediately starting attending Phillies games. I was 9 so I didn’t know about bandwagon crap. Anyways, through the really bad years that followed through now, I’ve been a loyal fan but it’s getting hard to support this franchise. Middleton isn’t making things easy.

      Clearly smells like a rebuild. DD will make it a quick one but can’t wait for another season without playoff baseball.

  34. Signing JTR is in my mind a matter of when. The Phillies and Realmuto’s camp are simply playing out the market. There can’t be a rebuild when the prime years of Harper, Nola, and Wheeler are at stake. Dombrowski may not operate exactly as he did in previous stops but he didn’t come to Philadelphia to rebuild anything. Kind of naive to think otherwise.

    1. Agree……JTR and his agent have to accept the fact: may not set the record for AAV for catchers over a long term 5 year contract….or two—come to the realization he could accept the high AAV, but for less than 5 years.

      Could be a $25M for the first three years then the drop down but also he would have an opt-out if he so chooses, say in that 4th and 5th year..

      1. Agree that once Middleton hired DD, the team was not only shunning a second rebuild, but IMO they are in it to win it (not saying they’re going to win anything, just saying they’ll make moves to compete). To me, this means JTR is almost a slam dunk to return. After they get that done, Dombrowski will sign a SS (hoping it’s Didi), and add a couple/few arms (1 starter maybe two relievers) either through free agency or trade (the longer he waits out the FA market, the better the deal(s) he’ll find). Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, James Paxton, Carlos Rodon, Garrett Richards, and Chris Archer (he’s racing up my list like a rocket) would be my top targets for a starter. Darren O’Day and/or Chasen Shreeve are relievers who could be had for not a whole lot of money. I think David Robertson could be brought back on a minor league deal. The biggest question is: who does Dombrowski bring in to close? That’s going to be a key pick up. Keone Kela could be one of the cheaper proven closers available to buy.

        BTW … I don’t rule out the Phillies looking into a Sonny Gray trade. Gray has all kinds of ties to Caleb Cotham starting at Vanderbilt right through last season in Cincinnati. I’d also check in with the Pirates on Jameson Taillon. The Phillies need to build depth to their rotation to deal with the Braves’ and Mets’ lineups.

        1. Gray could be a good rotation piece…has experience.
          Not sure what the Reds would want in return….as long as it is not Darick Hall! 🙂

          1. Absolutely agree, Romus. I’m sure Darick Hall would be the line DD would refuse to cross in any Sonny Gray trade. 🙂

  35. mark, I don’t disagree with you regarding a rebuild. However, there is certainly a scenario where Dombrowski, knowing that expansion is 4 or 5 years away, decided that $10M a year for a few years is a nice nest egg, and accepted the idea that although 2021 was not going to be a year to contend, he would have the resources he needs for 2022. That’s not naive, and from what has occurred so far, pretty logical. Sure, there is time left, and all sorts of positive moves can be made, but how confident are you that they will be?

  36. Phillies with a franchise altering trade! A high 9s ERA reliever! Lol
    Small move but had to joke

    1. Why trade for a guy who will be a clubhouse cancer (he opposed the BLM movement – Cutch will hate him)? Plus they traded their 4th rd pick before ever seeing him in a game – another draft mistake?

  37. Matt13 – I think the salary is 5 mill a year but irrespective – DD has had a long and successful career. I do not think he wants it to end on a bad note and this would be his final team I would think. Despite the inaction, I think he is getting ready and the team is taking a very strategic posture. Hinkie is right – there are about 25 relievers that are better than any BP pitcher in last year’s version. They will be dirt cheap. There is a long way to go till ST and more players will be coming. I do think JT is holding everything up, but its waiting for that decision that is a repeat of the Harper experience.

  38. Phillies acquire relief pitcher Sam Coonrod from SFG for pitching prospect Carson Ragsdale whom they drafted last summer. Coonrod throws heat after TJ surgery in 2018.

    1. On the field, I like the potential he brings to the table. His personal views on certain issues made it difficult for him to return to SF next year in our current American landscape. From a baseball perspective, seems like a nice buy-low move by DD. He doesn’t seem like someone where his beliefs will be expressed in a manner that will cause clubhouse strife.

      1. 25 players can have 25 beliefs, all 25 can have 1 belief or and combo therein. It doesn’t matter, play baseball and leave everything else outside the ballpark!

        1. Agree Denny……I think now all we need is to get Trevor Bauer for the rotation, and bring in Curt Schilling as a pitching consultant,…shake things up on this team.
          Let the juices flow.

          1. Instead of Gabe’s “Be Bold” theme we’d have “Make the Phillies Great Again”. In all seriousness, it does not appear he handled expressing his beliefs in a disrespectful way so it should not be an issue. (Regardless of what my beliefs are)

          2. I agree Romus also we need to get a new owner, better scouts, sign Jt, Get a center fielder, shortstop, third basemen, two bullpen arms. second basemen, and maybe we can get third place this year

            1. rocco……good morning….glad to see you are back being your old self…..optima optimism overflowing! 🙂

        2. If saying i only knee for God is a problem, Then i dont know what he can do to fix some ones problem with his beliefs,

  39. Sorry guys, this off season has been a bad joke. Every pick up has to come from the scrap heap, injured list, or never was any good list. And we throw away another prospect. There are about 2 dozen decent to very good options on the FA market that only cost money. Spend dome Middleton, your poor little rich guy shtick is really wearing thin.

    1. matt13, with the numerical paring down of the farm, real “prospects” have to be narrowed down as well. Ragsdale may have the upside but neither the proximity nor projectability enough to keep him in an organization with a greater sense of urgency and an even greater need for bullpen help.

      1. don’t disagree- but a guy like AJ Cole has been better the last 2 years in MLB than Coonrod and he and only got a minor league deal from Toronto- while the Phils send a 4th round pick to get Coonrod- thats the part that has me scratching my head a bit but have to give DD benefit of the doubt.

  40. Red Sox have reportedly been discussing Andrew Benintendi in trade talks. Banged up last year but he’s been a quality player in Beantown with some upside still and 2021 is his age 27 season. Logical trade partner would be Dombrowski who knows him well. Benintendi turns free agent after 2023. Hasn’t generated quite the power which was expected as a top prospect in BA’s estimation back in 2017. Word is Boston is looking for OF and pitching help (who’s not looking for the latter?). We could use a lefty bat, ideally in CF, although there’s some concern whether he could anchor the middle since he’s lost a step and JBJ has manned CF mostly at Fenway.

    Anyone interested? If so, what would it take?
    Personally, I don’t think we’d have to include an Abel or Stott. Maybe Howard and Moniak would be acceptable in a larger package.

    p.s. In response to comments on the political views of Coonrod or any other player, why do only the ones who support a conservative platform get mentioned here as potential clubhouse problems? (That’s a rhetorical question.)

    1. I wouldn’t trade Howard, I think he has good potential. Many pitching prospects need a season or 2 before you see what their true potential is.

      I don’t see Coonrod as a potential clubhouse problem – he was very bold to not bend the knee to BLM when everyone around him was doing so. His views are not political. He is likely a better clubhouse presence than most people.

      1. Howard’s biggest issue is a physical issue. He consistently lost 5 MPH off his FB from innings 1 and 2 to about inning 5. If he can’t solve that problem, he a reliever. Nobody is discussing this here – perhaps out of politeness to Mr. Howard, but folks, this is a huge issue.

        1. Yes…it is an issue.
          I would hope the Phillies have recognized this as a concern.
          The manager had said something to the effect that there was no shoulder structural issues and everything will be fine. However, the last two seasons have been curtailed short due to it. I saw Seranthony back in CLW in 2017 go thru shoulder issues…out for two months…try to come back as a starter, no luck…so he eventually went to go to the pen.
          There are off-season training programs that work well and hopefully when he reports next month everything has been worked out
          And the hard part. is to just have to wait and see how he responds thru a full season.

      1. all things equal would rather have Benitendi, but for the reasons you mention wouldnt give up anything to get him.

    2. I agree and since when did a spiritual view become a political one? I mean I get it, if you spiritually think the nuclear family or communism / Carl Marx is anti Christian, then I get that there is some connection but a lot of faiths have principals that would not allow them to bend a knee to something other then God. The issue that is so ironic, is instead of pressuring people to go to the back of the bus, now we are pressuring them to kneel to something else.
      I think if you embrace diversity, then this should work great, if not then it’s hypocritical.

  41. I’m a guy who started voting in the Ronald Reagan era. I loved him, and could be counted on to vote GOP pretty regularly through my 30’s. However, the older I get, the more left I lean. Most of you probably have gotten a good sense of what I feel about the last four years. That said, I will always stand by someone’s right to protest (peacefully!), or not to protest. I would be an absolute hypocrite to support Colin Kaepernick, yet criticize Sam Coonrod.
    That said, I love the arm! 100+ MPH velo doesn’t grow on trees, and (aside from Ser-Antn’y for a season), the Phillies have had nothing like that coming out of their pathetic BP over the last handful of seasons. Joe Girardi hired one of the youngest, hottest, most progressive PC’s three months ago. Let Caleb Cotham get to work with Coonrod (and Jose Alvarado). Hopefully, Cotham can help him refine one of his secondary pitches, and can turn Coonrod into the Phillies version of Tanner Rainey, who tallied 7 IP, 13 H, 13 BB, 7 K, 24.43 ERA, and 13.73 FIP in his one MLB season for the Reds before the Nationals helped him to become one of the most dominant relievers in the NL.
    I just wish Dombrowski could have substituted another prospect (or even two) for Carson Ragsdale. I believe in Ragsdale. He was already #25 on my Phillies prospect list. The kid has a very high ceiling. He already comes with a mid 90’s FB (with great downhill plane) and a hammer CB (when at it’s best). He played two ways his first couple of seasons at USF, and missed 2019 with TJ. But, man he was putting it all together (as a pitcher only) last year before COVID hit. As a matter of fact, he completely dominated Florida (the #1 ranked team in the country) in his final game as an amateur. The 6’8″, 225 lb thrower went 4 IP, 1 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 10 K vs the Gators. Good luck to the kid in SF. Hopefully, this is a deal that helps both clubs.
    IMO, Dombrowski gave up more for Coonrod than he did for Alvarado (who is LH and has a more proven track record). The bottom line is … DD is showing he’s a man of his word. At his presser, he said he prefers power arms coming out of the BP. So far, his first two moves (only two moves) have been Alvarado and Coonrod. Both guys have thrown 100+ MPH.

    1. Hinkie, while you and I have opposing world views, and mine is obviously informed by my faith, I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful comments. Baseball is such a timeless distraction when charm and history are enjoyed without the political stuff, but it’s unfortunately unavoidable as the air we breathe.

    2. Yeah Hinkie….Ragsdale showed promise in his college career….especially in bringing his BB/9 down from 9 to 3 in his last season.
      I can only think that SF rejected other names offered and wanted Ragsdale or no deal.
      Or… Jeff Lurie told John S….Philly ain’t big enough for two Carsons….so yours has to go.

          1. Also … on a side note: wouldn’t be surprised if Carson Ragsdale is a little bummed with the trade news. He’s from Tampa. It would have been pretty convenient playing MiLB in Clearwater.

    3. Hinkie,

      I just wish Dombrowski could have substituted another prospect (or even two) for Carson Ragsdale. ”

      Turn around for a guy who feared Dombrowski would give away the farm to win now

  42. Mark – Does that mean Mr. Hinkie’s world views or my world views are not informed by our faith? I believe one can kneel whenever he wants or not kneel if he wants. Do people have the right to burn the flag or tear up a photo of the Pope?

    1. Ciada, I let Mark answer for himself, but I don’t think his comment was to say others are not informed by their faith. I took it as he was speaking for himself.
      I also think there is a difference between kneeling or not between desecrating something others hold dear. I think the Seinfeld joke caught real well. You can be in a match for aids and not where the ribbon.

  43. About that … I think two people of the same faith can have different world views. I am Roman Catholic (not sure, but I think mark is too). I did 12 years in the Phila parochial school system. I had family members (both deceased) who were a nun and a priest (actually elevated to Bishop) who worked many years in the Vatican.

  44. Mr. H and all – I, too, am Roman Catholic and I attend mass weekly (albeit on Friday morning). What annoys me about certain Christians (and I’m not saying anyone on this site for I don’t know) is that because I believe in a woman’s right to choose about her own body that I am not a good Christian. Some think that a man who might be a racist, a bigot, a misogynist, and is faithless and who is just plain mean spirited is fine to vote for because he claims he is prolife (or is he really?).

    It also goes for those who wrap themselves in the flag and say that if you don’t believe in what they stand for, you are not a patriot. Well, I am a patriot. I hate to stir the pot here and if I’m not censored, I will appreciate that. I don’t get riled too often but some things irk me and I need to get them off of my chest. I do not want to and I hope not to disrespect anyone, especially on this site, but the occurrences of this past week have gotten me to my breaking point. Thank you for allowing me my rant.

    1. The “many” occurrences over the past year has MY blood boiling. Is the new Man Prolife or not or does it matter or does he know?

    2. I think this is the problem with talking religion and politics on social media. It’s been getting out of control to the point. Some people want to blame it one prominent guy but it has escalating for years. I know people who were at the rally and antifa and other hare groups mixed in with the peaceful protesters. There were even capital police urging people through the barricades.
      I mean Philadelphia fans should get it, it dies not take much to urge a small group of incensed people to violence. It’s been going on since I was born in 1960. And as long as we allow people to gather in large groups it will happen again. Politicians, media and now even athletes through gas on the fire.
      I really am saddened how sports has become so political.

  45. So Coonrod only bends a knee to Christ and that’s a no-no? Remember when Sandy Koufax’s Jewish faith was an issue with the Dodgers and it was rightfully shutdown as un-American? Those days seem to be slipping away.

    1. Hawkeye…..Dodgers management , Walter Alston and Buzzi Bavasi had no issue with Koufax and his honoring the Jewish holydays…just the first day of Passover and Rosh Hashannah.
      The fans, however, took exception when he was scheduled against a tough opponent

      1. Guys – Koufax took of a day in honor of Yom Kippur – the most sacred and holy of Jewish holidays; a day of somber atonement and one on which it would truly be inappropriate to play for even any slightly observant Jew.

        1. FWIW – two current Jewish stars – Alex Bergman and Max Fried – played on Yom Kippur.

      2. It wasn’t the Dodgers who objected but the media and fans. Times have changed. This “cancel culture “ will be the death of us all.

        1. “Cancel culture” isn’t some new phenomenon. Human history is riddled with it. The witch trials, the communism craze during the Cold War, the Holocaust, etc. are all examples of people “cancelling” what they disagree with. At least this one is fairly peaceful in comparison.

          And it’s not always a bad thing, either. Sometimes making people face the consequences of their decisions and their beliefs leads to a better society, like the abolition of slavery or various reformations of multiple religions. You can disagree with certain aspects of it, but I’m fine with how it’s headed currently. People aren’t calling for the deaths of anyone, and largely the only people getting “cancelled” are ones with bigoted views.

          By the way, the thing people took exception to was his comments about BLM being Marxist and wanting to dissolve nuclear families; not the refusing to take a knee. He made unsubstantiated claims in ignorance. He deserves some backlash for that.

          1. Looks like we have the political non-sports debate thread that Jim had asked us about several weeks ago

  46. Maybe this team wants to tank and get the number pick in 2022? Is there a can’t miss talent trending for that draft?

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